March 1. 1681. WE do appoint THOMAS BASSET to Print the Tryals of Charles John Count Coningsmark George Borosky Christopher Vratz and John Stern for the Murder of THOMAS THYNN Esquire And that no other Person presume to Print the same JOHN MOOR Mayor FR. PEMBERTON THE TRYAL AND CONDEMNATION OF George Borosky alias Borotzi Christopher Vratz and John Stern FOR THE BARBAROUS MURDER OF Thomas Thynn Esq Together with the TRYAL of Charles John COUNT CONINGSMARK As Accessary before the Fact to the same Murder Who was Acquitted of the said Offence At the Sessions in the Old Bailey Tuesday February 28. 1681. LONDON Printed for Thomas Basset at the George near St. Dunstan's Church in Fleetstreet 1682. Thomas Thynn of Long Leate in Com. Wilts Esq r. who was Barbarously Murdered on Sunday y e 12 th Feb 1681 2 THE TRYAL OF George Borosky alias Boratzi Christopher Vratz John Stern and CHARLES JOHN COUNT CONINGS MARK On Tuesday the 28th of February 1681. The Sessions of the Peace for the City of London and of Oyer and Terminer for the City of London and County of Middlesex which was adjourned over till this day was held at the Sessions-house in the Old Bayley And there having been an Indictment found at Hicks's hall by the Grand Jury for the County of Middlesex against Charles George Borosky Christopher Vratz and John Stern for murdering Thomas Thynn Esq and against Charles John Count Coningsmark as accessory before the Fact the said Persons being in Newgate were brought to the Barr to be Arraigned and Tryed And they being Forreigners and Interpreter was sworn to acquaint them in a Language they understood what they were Accused of Cl. of the Crown CHarles Borosky hold up thy hand Which he did Christopher Vratz hold up thy hand Which he did John Stern hold up thy hand Which he did Charles John Coningsmark hold up thy hand Which he did Tou stand Indicted in the County of Middlesex by the Names of Charles George Borosky late of the Parish of St. Martins in the Fields in the County of Middlesex Labourer otherwise called George Boratzi of the same Parish and County Labourer Christopher Vratz of the same Parish and County Gentleman John Stern of the same Parish and County Gentleman and Charles John Coningsmark of the same Parish and County Esquire otherwise called John Coningsmark of the same Parish and County Esquire For that you the said Charles George Borosky alias Boratzi Christopher Vratz and John Stern not having God before your Eyes but being moved and seduced by the Instigation of the Devil upon the Twelfth day of February in the Thirty Fourth year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord King Charles the Second with Force and Arms in the Parish of St. Martins in the Fields in the County of Middlesex aforesaid in and upon Thomas Thynn Esquire in the Peace of God and our said Sovereign Lord the King then and there being Feloniously Wilfully and of your Malice afore-thought did make an Assault And that thou the said George Borosky alias Boratzi a certain Blunderbuss of the Value of Five Shillings the said Blunderbuss being then charged with Gunpowder and Four Leaden Bullets which said Blunderbuss thou the said George Borosky alias Boratzi in both thy hands so as aforesaid Loaden to and against the said Thomas Thynn then and there hadst and heldest And that thou the aforesaid George Borosky alias Boratzi knowing the Blunderbuss aforesaid to be so as aforesaid charged with Gunpowder and Leaden Bullets to and against the said Thomas Thynn then and there with Force of Arms Feloniously Wilfully and of thy Malice afore-thought didst Discharge and Shoot off And that thou the said George Borosky alias Boratzi with the said Leaden Bullets shot and sent out of the Blunderbuss aforesaid by the violence and force of the Gunpowder aforesaid And by thee the said George Borosky alias Boratzi so as aforesaid discharged and shot off the said Thomas Thynn in and upon the right-side of the Body of the said Thomas Thynn near the short Ribs of the right-side of the Body of the said Thomas Thynn then and there Feloniously Wilfully and of thy Malice aforethought didst Strike and Wound giving unto him the said Thomas Thynn then and there with the Leaden Bullets aforesaid so as aforesaid shot and sent out of the Blunderbuss aforesaid by force and violence of the Gunpowder aforesaid by thee the said George Borosky alias Boratzi so as aforesaid discharged and sent out in and upon the right side of the Body of him the said Thomas Thynn near the short Pibbs on the right-side of him the said Thomas Thynn four mortal wounds every one of them of the breadth of one Inch and of the depth of six Inches of which said mortal wounds be the said Thomas Thynn from the said twelfth day of February in the 34th year aforesaid unto the thirteenth day of the same Moneth of February at the Parish of St. Martins in the Fields aforesaid did languish and lived languishing On which said thirteenth day of February in the 34th Year aforesaid he the said Thomas Thynn at the Parish of St. Martins in the Fields aforesaid of the mortal wounds so as aforesaid given dyed And that you the said Christopher Vratz and John Sterne then that is to say at the time of the Felony and Murder aforesaid by the said George Borosky alias Boratzi so as aforesaid feloniously wilfully and of his malice afore-thought done and committed then and there feloniously willfully and of your malice afore thought by force and arms were present aiding comforting abetting assisting and maintaining the said George Borosky alias Boratzi the Felony and Murder aforesaid feloniously willfully and of his malice afore thought to do and commit And so you the said George Borosky alias Boratzi Christopher Vratz and John Sterne the said Thomas Thynn in manner and forme aforesaid feloniously wilfully and of your malice afore-thought didst kill and murder against the Peace of our Sovereign Lord the King His Crawn and Dignity And that thou the said Charles John Coningsmark before the Felony and Murder aforesaid by the said George Borosky alias Boratzi Christopher Vratz and John Sterne in manner and forme aforesaid feloniously wilfully and of their malice aforethought done and committed to wit the said Twelfth day of February in the 34th Year aforesaid at the Parish of St. Martins in the Fields aforesaid them the said George Borosky alias Boratzi Christopher Vratz and John Stern the Felony and Murder aforesaid in manner and form aforesaid felloniously to do and commit feloniously willfully and of thy malice afore-thought didst stir up counsel perswade and procure against the Peace of our Sovereign Lord the King His Crown and Dignity L. Ch. Just Why you must read this to them now in their Language or else they can't understand it L. Ch. Just North. You that are the Interpreter tell them that you are going to Interpret the Indictment to them by
He excepts against slim too Cl. of Cr. Charles Beelow Interpret He says he looks like a man and he does not except against him And he was Sworn Cl. of Cr. Ralph Bucknall Esq Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. Thomas Earsby Esq Interpret He challenges him too L. C. J. Look you Sir Nath. Johnson pray tell him he can challenge but Twenty Sir N. Johnson He says very well he will not do any more He desires the favour that those that he challenges may not come near those that are sworn L. C. J. Well it shall be so we will take care of it Cl. of Cr. Richard Gowre Esq Sir N. Johnson He excepts against him Cl. of Cr. George Hocknall Esq Interpret He challenges him But then the Count looking in his Paper retracted his challenge and he was sworn Cl. of Cr. Peter Vandenhagen Interpret He says nothing to him Then he was sworn Cl. of Cr. Walter Moyle Esq Interpret He does not challenge him He was sworn Cl. of Cr. Christopher Ripkey Interpret He does not challenge him He was sworn Cl. of Cr. Thomas Henslow Esq Interpret He does not except against him Then he was sworn Cl. of Cr. Lewis Doncarr Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. Peter Lecane He did not appear David Collivaux Interpret He challenges him because he knew Mr. Thynne they say Cl. of Cr. Andrew Lodderley Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. James Burk Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. Daniel Griggion Interpret He does not challenge him So he was sworn Cl. of Cr. Robert Jordan Esq Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. Lucy Knightley Esq Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. John Haynes Esq Interpret He does not except against him He was sworn Cl. of Cr. Lewis le Count. Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. John Belliew Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. James Frontein Mr. Williams We challenge him for the King Cl. of Cr. John Massey Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. Andrew Primoâ—â— Interpret He challenges him Cl. of Cr. Nicholas Beufoy Interpret He challenges him He says they are all Walloons and therefore he challenges them L. C. J. Why does he except against Walloons Interpret Because they have always served against the Swedes Cl. of Cr. John Lebarr Interpret He does not except against him And so he was sworn Cl. of Cr. Cryer count these c. Sir Will. Roberts Bar. Jur ' Walter Moyle Esq Moses Charas Gent. Chr. Ripkey Gent. Richard Pagett Esq Tho. Henslow Esq Charles Beelow Gent. Dan. Griggion Gent. Geo. Hocknall Esq Joh. Haynes Esq And Pet. Vandenhagen Gent. Joh. Lebarr Gent. Then Proclamation for Information and Prosecution was made And a Chair was set for the Count at his Request Cl. of Cr. GEntlemen Look upon the Prisoners you that are Sworn and hearken to their Cause they stand Indicted prout in the Indictment mutatis mutandis against the Peace of our Sovereign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity Upon this Indictment they have been Arraigned and thereunto have severally pleaded Not Guilty And for their Tryal have put themselves upon God and their Country which Country you are Your Charge is to inquire whether they or any of them are Guilty of the Offences whereof they stand Indicted or not Guilty And if you find them or any of them Guilty you are to find what Goods or Chattels Lands or Tenements they had at the time of the Felony and Murder committed or at any time since If you find them or any of them Guilty you are to inquire whether they or any of them fled for it If you find that they or any of them fled for it you are to inquire of their Goods and Chattels as if you had found them Guilty if you find them or any of them not Guilty nor that they did fly for it you are to say so and no more and hear your Evidence But if you acquit any one of the Principals L. C. J. That is a mistake it must be all the Principals Cl. of Cr. If you acquit the Principals you are not to inquire of Charles John Coningsmark as accessory before Mr. Keene May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen that are sworn of this Jury George Borosky alias Boratri Christopher Vratz and John Sterne the Prisoners at the Bar stand here Indicted for that they not having the fear of God before their Eyes but being moved and seduced by the Instigation of the Devil the 12th day of February in the 34th Year of the Reign of this King feloniously and voluntarily and of their malice aforethought did make an Assault upon Thomas Thynne Esq at the Parish of St. Martins in the Fields in this County and that he the said George Borosky having in his hands a Blunderbuss which he knew to be Charged with Four leaden Bullets did Discharge it at Mr. Thynne and gave him Four mortal Wounds of which Wounds he languished till the 13th day of February and then dyed And that they the said Christopher Vratz and John Sterne were there present aiding assisting and abetting him to commit the said Felony and Murder And so that they the said George Borosky Christopher Vratz and John Sterne did of their malice aforethought in manner aforesaid Murder the said Thomas Thynne And Charles John Coningsmark the other Prisoner at the Bar stands Indicted for that he before the Felony and Murder aforesaid so done and committed to wit the 12th day of February aforesaid did of his malice aforethought move incite counsel perswade and procure the said Borosky Vratz and Sterne to do that Murder against the Peace of the King his Crown and Dignity To this Indictment they have severally pleaded Not Guilty and you are to inquire whether they are Guilty as they are charged or no. Sir Francis Withins My Lord and Gentlemen I am of Counsel in this Case for the King against the Prisoners at the Bar. There are three of them Indicted as Principals in this Murder the fourth as Accessory before In this Case that is now before you Gentlemen I cannot chuse but take Notice unto you that a Murder of this Nature has never been heard of to be perpetrated upon English Ground both in respect of the Person Murdered and in respect of the Circumstances of the Fact For the Person Murdered a Gentleman of that Quality and Estate that he hath left but few equals behind him That this Man being in his Coach should be way-layed surprized Murdered and this Murder Committed in the midst of our Streets is that which works Amazement in all English hearts And our only Comfort upon this sad Occasion is that there is not one Native of this Countrey found amongst all those that are Accused to be Instruments in this Barbarous Fact I did Observe to you Gentlemen before that there are three named to be Principals Borosky whom for distinction sake I shall call by the name of the Polander Vratz who is called the
Tryal is once begun the Jury can neither eat nor drink till they have given their Verdict that is the Law and we can't change the Law therefore we cannot allow him the time he desires He knows what he is Accused of and has known it a good while and has had time to recollect himself and prepare himself Sir N. Johns My Lord he says the Jury are not yet together nor charged with him and therefore till the Jury are charged he thinks he may have time if your Lordship please to allow it L. C. J. Look you you must tell him that he is to understand that here is but one Indictment against the Principals and himself and we cannot Try this by piece-meals we cannot Try the Principals now and my Lord Coningsmark another time Sir N. Johns If it must be so he says he must throw himself upon your Lordship he hopes he shall have nothing but what is just and fair and he hopes your Lordship will be of Counsel to him as the Fashion of this Countrey is if any thing arises of Matter of Law he desires he may have the Advantage of it And if he can't have a day or two he says the Innocency of his Case will protect him Count Coningsmark knowing how Innocent he is won't stick for a day or two but he will be ready to be Tryed as your Lordship shall think fit he has Innocence on his side and that will protect him L. C. J. Let my Lord know that we will be careful in Examining all things that concern him Sir N. Johns He says he does not fear it my Lord having to do with such Honourable Persons nor doubt it at all L. C. J. Then Swear a Jury But look you my Lord Coningsmark consider this As the Gentlemen of the Jury come to be Sworn if you do dislike any of them you may except against them Sir N. Johns My Lord he says being altogether a Stranger here in England and not knowing any of the Persons he begs the favour of the Bench that he may have the Names of those that are Returned of the Jury and a little time to consider of it L. C. J. That we cannot do All we can do for you is we will take as much care as we can that you may have indifferent Persons and Persons of Quality L. C. J. North. Pray tell him the Law gives him the Priviledge of a peremptory Challenge Sir N. Johns He says my Lord he does not know who they are but they may be Persons that are touched and may have something of evil Will or Spleen against him His Father served against the King of Denmark and against the Poles and the Papists and his Father was a Protestant and served the Protestant Cause L. C. J. What Countrey-men are they Mr. Sheriff Under-Sheriff They are French and Dutch most of them I do not believe there is ever a Dane amongst them L. C. J. We will call all French-men if he had rather have them than Dutch Sir N. Johns He would very gladly have them all High Dutch if not that he may have some L. C. J. I thought he had excepted against the Dutch Sir N. Johnson No against the Danes for his Father in the Wars burnt their Towns L. C. J. Examine them as they come to the Book If there be any of the Roman Catholick Religion and don't let any such be Sworn Mr. Sher. Pilkington There is none such amongst them I dare say L. C. J. Sir Nat. Johnson tell my Lord he shall have no Roman Catholicks at all Sir N. Johns He thanks your Lordship He desires he may have the Pannel to look upon and he hopes that is an easie Favour L. C. J. Let him have the Pannel if it will do him any good He is a Stranger satisfie him in what we can Which was delivered to him and he looked it over L. C. J. Tell him as the Jury is called he shall have every one of the Outlandish-men and English-men brought before him Sir N. Johnson My Lord he thanks you for this favor L. Ch. Baron Sir Nath. Johnson tell the Count They call first an English-man then a Foreigner and they shall be brought to view L. C. J. Pray have you told the other persons that their time to challenge is before the Jury is sworn Sir N. Johnson The Polander says he can challenge none because he knows none L. C. J. What say the rest Mr. Vaudore They say they know no body and can except against no body Cl. of Cr. Call Sir Will. Roberts Who appearing stood up L. C. J. My Lord Coningsmark there is the Fore-man Sir N. Johnson He has nothing to say against him L. C. J. Then hold him a Book and Swear him Which was done Cl. of Cr. Call Mr. Downing Interpreter He says he is no Foreigner L. C. J. Then he must not be sworn Cl. of Cr. Moses Charas Who appeared Interpret He has nothing to say against him But he himself says he does not speak English but he desires to speak French Cl. of Cr. Then tell him in French he must lay his Hand on the Book and be sworn and hearken to his Oath Sir Fr. Winnington We challenge him for the King L. C. J. For what Cause Sir Fr. Winnington My Lord we take it that we need not shew any Cause unless there be any want of the Number in the Panel L. C. J. Then we must do him right and tell him what Advantage the Law gives him Tell my Lord you that understand English that this Gentleman is challenged for the King and if the King shew any good cause for it he must not be sworn else he must And the way for him to cause the King's Councel to shew their Cause if he desire it is to challenge all the rest Mr. Williams We wave our Challenge for the reason why we challenged him was because he did not understand English which will be no reason at all Then he was Sworn Cl. of Cr. Sir Henry Ingoldsby Sir N. Johnson He challenges him my Lord. Cl. of Cr. Sir William Gulston Sir N. Johnson He excepts against him my Lord. L. Ch. J. Does he challenge him in respect of what I said to him about the Outlandish Gentlemen that the King is to shew cause Or how does he challenge him Interpret My Lord he says he hears he is a Friend to Mr. Thynne L. C. J. Well let him be passed by then Cl. of Cr. Sir John Musters Who did not appear Sir N. Johnson He says my Lord he only desires indifferent persons Cl. of Cr. Henry Herbert Esq Sir N. Johnson He challenges him Cl. of Cr. Richard Paget Esq Sir N. Johnson He desires to see him L. C. J. Let him be brought into the middle that he may look upon the Prisoners Interpret He has nothing to say against him Then he was Sworn Cl. of Cr. James Bucgone Interpret He excepts against him Cl. of Cr. Claudius Derolee Interpret
the Laws of England afterwards Marry the Lady Ogle So that Mr. Thynne's Death was in prospect from the beginning Gentlemen We shall prove to you as I did in some measure open before that the Count himself was pleased to give express order that the Polander should have a good Sword bought him That before he came into England he was very much troubled by reason of the stormy Weather for fear he should be cast away that he lodged him in his own Lodging the Night before this Act was perpetrated and that Captain Vratz was the Morning before and immediately after with the Count. Another thing Gentlemen that I had almost forgot The Count was willing to be instructed in the Laws of England and inquired Whether a man might lawfully ride out upon a Sunday and being told That after Sermon he might he was very well satisfied and the day he inquired of it was the day that the Murder was committed After the thing was done Count Coningsmark the next Morning pretended he was to go to Windsor and leaves his Lodging but instead of going to Windsor being still in his disguise he goes to Rotherhith by the Water-side and there I think he continues two or three days in a Black Peruque and that is disguise enough for such a Gentleman And afterwards he goes to Gravesend but I think he was upon the Water some time before he thought it convenient to land and there he was surprized in this disguise And when he was surprized and taken he shew'd himself to be in great disorder but being charged with the Fact acknowledged nothing of the Matter but how it should come to pass that he should lie so long disguised upon no pretence that can be known and afterwards to pretend that he had a business to effect and then he was to go into France that will lye upon him to answer But these are the inducing Evidences that we give to you his keeping the Polander in his House his disguising of himself and his inquiring Whether if he Killed Mr. Thynne he might not Marry my Lady Ogle his flight the next day and pretending to go to Windsor when he went quite the other way and all in a disguise And these persons not having any appearance or any reason whatsoever for any particular quarrel to Mr. Thynne but the Count having some disgust to him upon the Terms that the Witnesses will tell you of by and by and being related to the Count we must leave it to you to judge whether these Gentlemen did it singly and purely upon their own heads or whether they were not set upon it by the Count. Sir Fra. Winn. My Lord I shall not trouble you with repeating of our Evidence but we will begin and call our Witnesses directly to prove the Murder done by these Gentlemen we will prove the Fact downright upon them and then we shall afterwards come to the Count. Mr. Williams My Lord first we will direct our Evidence to the Principals and then to the Accessory Call William Cole and William Ellers L. C. J. Swear some persons to Interpret the Evidence that shall be given I do it for the sake of the Aliens that are of the Jury for some of them understand no English and they will not know what to make of the Evidence if they do not repeat it to them in their own Language Then Vandore and Wright were sworn for the King Sir N. Johnson My Lord desires that the Doctor and the Taylor that are in Prison may be sent for to be here for they are Witnesses for him Sir Fra. Winn. We desire they may be here too for they are Witnesses for the King and I believe they are here my Lord. Sir N. Johnson Mr. Vandore does not speak French Sir Will. Roberts Mr. Craven speaks Dutch and French very well Mr. Craven was sworn Sir N. Johnson The Count desires the favor of Pen and Ink. L. C. J. Let the Count have Pen and Ink. Mr. Williams Call William Cole and William Ellers Who appeared and were sworn Which is William Cole set him up Acquaint my Lord and the Jury how Mr. Thynne was Assaulted and the manner of it Cole My Lord my Master was coming up St. James-street from the Countess of Northumberlands Sir Fra. Winn. Name your Master Mr. Williams Who was your Master Cole Mr. Thynne And I had a Flambeau in my hand and was going before the Coach and coming along at the lower end of St. Albons-street I heard the Blunderbuss go off so upon that I turned my Face back and saw a great smoke and heard my Master cry out he was Murdered and I see three Horsemen riding away on the right side of the Coach and I pursued after them and cryed out Murder I ran to the upper end of the Hay-Market till I was quite spent and was able to go no further and turning back again my Master was got into the House and I understood he was wounded that is all I know Mr. Williams You say you heard a Blunderbuss go off and turning back you saw three Men riding away from the Coach Cole Yes Mr. Williams Look upon the Prisoners at the Bar Can you say all them or any of them were the men Cole No I cannot I did not see their Faces but I saw the Horse of one of them was a little Bay Horse Mr. Williams But do you take any of them Men to be one of the three Cole I did not see any of their Faces Sir Fra. Winn. What time of Night was it Cole A quarter after Eight Sir Fra. Winn. Pray what day of the Week Cole Sunday Sir Fran. Win. What day of the Month Cole The 11th or 12th of February Sir Fran. Win. Then where is William Ellers Pray do you tell the Court and the Jury how Mr. Thynne was Wounded and by whom and what you know of it Ellers My Lord I came with my Master from St. James-street from my Lady Northumberland's and as I came at St. Albans-street there came three Men Riding by the right side of the Coach and as they Rid one of them turned about and bid me stop you Dog and just as I looked about the fire was let into the Coach upon my Master and the Men ran away as fast as they could Sir Fran. Win. How many were there of them Ellers There were three Sir Fran. Win. Were those Men at the Bar or any of them the Persons Ellers I cannot tell Sir Fran. Win. What were the words they said when the Coach was stopped Hold hold or stop you Dog Mr. Williams What Condition was your Master in then Was he shot then Ellers Yes Mr. Williams We will give you some Evidence now out of their Examinations L. C. J. You had best give some Evidence of his Wounds Mr. Williams Yes we will Call Mr. Hobbs the Chirurgeon L. C. J. Look you Mr. Craven you hear what these Witnesses say tell it to the Gentlemen of the Jury
Can't he give an account of it himself Mr. Williams No my Lord his Evidence must be Interpreted to them by the Interpreter L. C. Justice The Doctor 's Evidence hath been heard already about the same matter Sir N. Johnson He desires my Lord to know this whether he may not say the fame things over again to the Jury in French there are a great many Persons of quality that understand it and they will see whether he speak true L. C. Justice Let him if he pleases Sir Fran. Winn. But then my Lord I hope that your Lordship will tell the Jury it goes for nothing without Proof Then the Count spake to the Jury in French L. C. Justice My Lord I do not know whether the Gentlemen that are of your right hand heard you or not Jury-man We understand not French Then the Count spake it in Dutch Interpreter He says if it had not been for the great stormy Weather the Polander had been sooner in London for he sent for him before He says the Letters go from Strasburgh to Hamburgh in 7 days and that most commonly Ships do come from thence in 8 days but in a great deal less time then the Polander came over in And he says that he writ 4 Months before to setch the Polander over and he might have been long ere now if it had not been for the Weather L. C. Justice Then my Lord I would ask you some more Questions which it concerns you to Answer Upon what occasion did you make your discourse of Mr. Thynne's death to Mr. Hanson Had you any discourse with him and upon what occasion Sir N. Johnson My Lord he says in common Discourses 't is impossible to give an Accompt of the Discourse or remember the occasion of it so long ago L. C. Justice Ask him if he had any quarrel with Mr. Thynne Or knew Mr. Thynne Sir N. Johnson He says my Lord that he never had any quarrel with Mr. Thynne nor to the best of his remembrance with these eyes never saw Mr. Thynne L. C. Justice Then I ask you this my Lord Did you ever hear Mr. Thynne had married my Lady Ogle before you last came into England Interpreter He says he never heard of it till he was going to Strasburgh and then all the whole Town did talk of it L. C. Justice How long is that ago Interpreter Half a year ago L. C. Justice Then it was before his last coming into England Sir Fr. Winn. My Lord his discourse with Mr. Hanson was not when he was last in Town but before L. C. Justice Then pray ask him this What occasion he had to ask the Boy upon Sunday Whether Horses might ride about the Town of a Sunday Interpreter He says my Lord this is a very strange thing That he should go and ask a Scullion-Boy Whether people might ride on Sundays when he himself over and over again has rid upon Sundays to Hide-Park as many Persons of quality do L. C. Justice Has he any body to prove it Sir N. Johnson Here is Major Ogelthorpe who with divers other Gentlemen testified they had seen him riding diverse times on Sundays in Hide-Parke L. C. Justice Then that Question signifies nothing there could be nothing in that Question Sir N. Johnson My Lord he desires that I may be examined concerning this Boy of what I heard by chance from the Boy himself and I will give you an account of it upon my Faith and Reputation L. C. Justice Do so Sir Nathaniel say what you can say Sir N. Johnson My Lord I having had the honour to serve a while under my Lord's Father I was desirous knowing the honour of the Family and bearing a great respect to it to do my Lord all the reasonable Service I could So hearing my Lord was taken and in Newgate I went to wait upon him and coming there Mr. Richardson told me there was a little Boy waited at the Count's door for his Wages as he said So I spake to the Boy and asked him what does thou stay for he told me for his Wages Said I certainly my Lord will pay you his Wages how long have you serv'd him said he a little while and then said I if you lived with him what do you know of this business And then of himself he began and told me Only this I know that Vratz was in my Master's Chamber that night and the Polander that Night went out with a pair of Boots under his Arm and more then this I do not know Said I. Boy who do you serve Says he I have no Master at present but then of his own accord he told me Sir Thomas Thynne had promised him a place and in the mean time I am says he to go to serve my Lord Privy-Seal so my Lord gave him Twenty Shillings for his Wages Interpreter My Lord desires the Boy may be asked whether he did not go to fetch Physick L. C. Justice Ask him where is the Boy Watts No I do not remember it L. C. Justice Now you should put the Count in mind Sir Fran. Winn. We observe what a sort of Interpreter Sir Nath. Johnson is He speaks more like an Advocate than an Interpreter he mingles Interpreter and Witness and Advocate together I don't know what to make of him L. C. Justice The Count had taken Physick that day Sir Thomas Thynne My Lord I desire to be heard I never spake to the Boy in all my Life Mr. Thynne Nor I. But he gave the same Testimony he gives now before the King and Council L. C. Justice Look you Sir Thomas it does not concern you at all to speak to that there is no reflection made upon you in it But my Lord Conningsmarke it will concern you a little to shew upon what occasion Captain Vratz came to you that Night that Mr. Thynne was killed Interpreter He says my Lord he can't tell why he came there it 's a proper Question to ask Captain Vratz himself L. C. Justice That can't be Interpreter He says my Lord he kept his Chamber at that time he had taken cold upon his taking Physick and the Captain came to give him a visit and he never reflected upon any one he came for he was lying upon his Bed L. C. Baron Pray ask my Lord this Why this man that was sent over to attend Horses should come upon the Friday and a Campaign Coat be bought him on the Saturday and he furnished with a Sword on the Sunday Interpreter My Lord the Noise is great but I suppose your Lordship desires to know what was the reason why he bought a Sword for him and a Coat L. C. Baron Ay and how he came by the Buff-Coat Interpreter He says he had that before L. C. Baron But why must he have such a strong Basket-hilted Sword furnished him in a days time Interpreter He says my Lord As to the Clothes when he saw him with all his Clothes torn he must of
Answer how came you to tell those Gentlemen that took you that you believed Mr. Uratz and the rest would have done the Duke of Monmouth no harme Interpreter He says the people told when he was taken that the Duke of Monmouth was in the Coach and that they did follow the Coach a great way and would not do the Action till the Duke of Monmouth was out of the Coach Count. They did tell me the Crowd that were about me that those that were taken say'd they would not do it till the Duke was out Interpreter And he says that gave him sufficient reason to say to Mr. Gibbons that he did believe they had no design upon his Grace the Duke of Monmouth L. C. J. He heard it so commonly it seems Now my Lord there is one thing more that you should explain your self in what you meant by this when you said it would be a stain upon your bloud yet one Noble Act in War or the Lodging upon a Counterscarp would wash it off Interpreter He says my Lord that tho he knew himself Not Guilty of any thing yet his being taken upon suspition and clapped up in Prison would be a great disgrace to him and would be worse resented in his own Country than the thing it self was It being not the Custom in his Country to take Persons of his Quality Prisoners in that manner L. C. J. Now my Lord Is there any person that you would have called to ask any Questions of If you have they shall be called Count. No my Lord but if you please to give me leave to tell something that may be necessary Then he spake in Dutch Sir N. Johnson My Lord he says if you will give him leave though it does not come very well from himself yet he desires to say something for his own Reputation Mr. Williams He should be armed with Witnesses to make his defence L. C. J. T is fit for men that stand here to say any thing that is reasonable for themselves My Lord If you can speak anything that you apprehend the Jury can understand speak to them what you please so as they understand it but do not be too long Mr. Craven My Lord If your Lordship please he says he will speak it first in French and then in German L. C. J. Ay but then the English man of the Jury will not understand a word of it he had better speak in English to the Jury L. C. J. North. My Lord It is an Indifferent thing it may be Interpreted not being matter of Fact Sr. N. Johnson My Lord he says it is a great happiness in all his trouble that he was in a Country where he was to appear before a Protestant Judicature himself being a Protestant and his fore-Fathers also He says that his fore-Fathers under Gustaphus Adolphus were souldiers and did there with their Swords in their hands and the loss of their bloud endeavour to settle the Protestant Religion in Germany and protect it there he says that it has been the honour of himself and his Family that they have always been ready to venture their bloud and their Lives for the advantage of the Protestant Religion as the Examples of his Grand-father and Father do shew and there never was any thing done by his family but what was done for the Honour of his Country and his Religion and he says that if any of his former Actions can give any the least suspition of his being Guilty of this or any foul Fact he is very willing to lay down his Life and very willing to have it cut off imediately Count. Imediately Sr. N. Johnson He says that he is very ready upon all occasions to serve the King of England and that he loves the English Nation so well as always to be ready to do any thing to serve them Count. without any interest in the World against the will of all my Relation and I have brought my Brother into England to be brought up into the Protestant Religion to shew my Inclinations to the Religion and the English Nation Ld. Ch. Just Have you done Sr. Fra. Winn. Yes my Lord We have done with our Evidence and we have no matter of fact to reply unto but we think it is our duty considering the defence my Lord has made that we should take some care to put the Kings Evidence a little together it being a case of such nature and so cruel and horrid a Murder My Lord and you Gentlemen of the Jury I am of Counsel here for the King and you are Gentlemen upon an inquiry to find out the Offendors in a very great a barbarous and a wilful Murder And my Lord in relation to the Principals I need not spend your Lordship and the Jurys time about them for all those three Men that are indicted as Principals do my Lord confess the fact tho they do it in a different manner and tho in forme of Law they are pleaded not Guilty yet when they come to be asked the Question there Guilt flys in their faces and they cannot deny it So then for those three Men there is no need to spend time in repeating the Evidence But my Lord that that seems to require the consideration of the Jury is whether this wicked and horrid Murder be only circumscribed in the Guilt of it to those three Men that have confessed it or whether any rational man in the World will beleive upon the account they give themselves that they only had a design a study or a delight to kill this Innocent Gentleman No my Lord the thing must lie a little deeper and there must be some other reason why this barbarous Murder was committed I would crave your pardon for what I say My Lord I would not speak any thing that should mislead a Jury in matters of bloud and I think it was rightly sayd by your Lordship that when a Man is tryed for his Life We ought all to behave ourselves seriously as in a matter of weight and moment And so it is I think a very serious thing and a matter of concernment to us all to inquire who hath shed Innocent bloud for such was this poor Gentlemans bloud that was killed Innocent bloud My Lord this Count is a very unhappy Person to have such a Relation as has been proved to be of the Principals I will do my Lord no wrong in the repetition if I do and am mistaken I crave your direction I am sure you will correct me in it Two of the Persons that are Principals that was Captain Uratz and the Polander happen'd to be Persons Relating to my Lords family as his servants For it is agreed by the Witnesses that were that Counts friends that I came over into England with the Count the last time he came over in that private manner and 't is likewise proved and not denyed by him that Captain Uratz was frequently with him not only to the very day when this