to express himself and say That the King was Popishly affected and did adhere to Popery and that he took the same methods that his Father before him took which brought his Father's Head to the block and we will also bring his thither and told me also That he told some Persons of Quality that this would fall out Five years before at the same time my Lord told me That there was a Collection of Money made and that the meeting was at the Sun Tavern and that there came a Tory Lord in to hinder their proceedings but sayes he we do remove to Iron-monger-Lane and sayes he you shall hear further in a fortnight I came to my Lord a fortnight afterwards and his Lordship was pleased to tell me that there was provision made for the Witnesses and that it was in the hand of one Mr. Rowse that was Servant to Sir Thomas Player there was one Mr. Ivey and I think my Brother was by too when his Lordship spake these words he said that the King was a Faithlessman that there was no Credit to be given to him and that the Dutchess of Mazarine was his Cabinet Council who was the worst of Woman-kind This is all that I have to say my Lord. Sir Francis Withins Do you remember nothing at any other time John Macnamarra No. Sir Francis Withins Did you hear any thing about deposing the King John Macnamarra Yes he did at the same time say the King deserved to be deposed as much as ever King Richard the Second did Dennis Macnamarra Mr. Sanders Tell these Gentlemen whether you have had any discourse with the Earl of Shaftsbury Dennis Macnamarra He said my Lord that the King was a man that ought not to be believed and there was no belief in him and that he ought to be deposed as well as King Richard the Second and that the Dutchess of Mazarine was one of his Cabinet Council and that he did nothing but by her Advice Sir Francis Withins Begin again L. C. J. Raise your voice a little for the Jury don't hear you Dennis Macnamarra That the King is a man that ought not to be believed that there was no belief in him and that he ought to be deposed as well as King Richard the 2d and that the Dutchess of Mazarine was his Cabinet Council and that he did nothing but by her consent L. C. J. Who was with you at that time Dennis Macnamarra There was Mr. Ivey and my Brother at his own House L. C. J. When was this Dennis Macnamarra 'T was at the latter end of March or the beginning of April Sir Francis Withins You say Mr. Ivey was by at the same time Dennis Macnamarra Yes Sir Francis Withins Call Mr. Ivey Jury What place was it in D. Macnamarra In his own house Edward Ivey sworn Mr. Ivey My Lord soon after the Parliament was dissolv'd at Oxford I was at my Lord Shaftsbury's house where he was speaking against the King and said that he was an unjust man and unfit to Reign and that he was a Papist in his heart and would introduce Popery Jury Say that again Mr. Ivey I tell you I was at my Lord Shaftsbury's house where he was then speaking against the King saying that he was altogether unjust and not fit to Reign and he wonder'd he did not take example by his Father before him and did really believe that he was a Papist in his heart and intended to introduce Popery I was sometime after with him and I told him one Haines had told me he had something to discover about the death of Sir Edmond-bury Godfrey and several other things and my Lord desired to see him and I brought Mr. Haines to his house and he desired him that what he had to say he would put in Writing and he should have a Pardon and that if the King did deny it as he dares not deny it but if he does we will rise upon him and force him Sir Francis Withins Had you any other discourse at other times Mr Ivey Yes I had other discourse but not to this purpose Sir Francis Withins Was you frequently with him Mr. Ivey I was frequently with him he desir'd at the time I was with him to bid Colledge to come to him and I went and came again to Haines with instructions how to proceed and I took his examination of him and carry'd it to my Lord and he desired it might be explain'd what he meant by the Tall Black-Man and says he if he does mean the King he must explain himself and speak of the King or the Duke of York or the rest and if he does we will take care of him as long as he lives but unless he does we will do nothing for him and I was with him with my Lord Shaftsbury and my Lord Shaftsbury did exclaim against the King Sir Francis Withins What words did he speak Mr. Ivey He said he was altogether an unjustMan and not fit to Reign and that he believed he was a Papist in his heart and design'd to Introduce Popery and therefore they design'd to depose him and set up another in his stead Sir Francis Withins Do you remember any discourse of Richard the Second at that time Mr. Ivey No Sir I do not remember any thing of it Bernard Dennis Sworn Sir Francis Withins Pray tell the Jury what discourse you had with the Earl of Shaftsbury at any time and what it was B. Dennis My Lord I came upon a design to make cleer the Plot in General as far as I have travell'd as in Ireland France Spain Maryland Virginia and England and upon that account I was brought before a Justice of the Peace in Westminster in November last this time 12 month and Examin'd before Justice Walcup a Justice of the Peace and from thence to the Committee of the House of Commons of whom Collonel Birch I believe he is here was Chair-man and gave in my Evidence and being called upon at the Tryal of the Earl of Stafford I was commended as I suppose to the Earl of Shaftsbury and upon the Account he sent me word of it by William Hetherington who was then very intimate with the Earl of Shaftsbury to my knowledge and William Hetherington came to me several times and he precisely was my maintainer at that time that is to find me what ever I wanted and provide me my Lodging and carry me to some place where accommodation might be more better for me Upon this account one time the Earl of Shaftsbury sent to me desiring that I would wait upon him at his own house I came to him and there in the Gallery of his own house walking very slowly he told me what I gave in of the Plot in general was very good and sufficient but as to the Queen and the Duke of York that I should speak more home and positive against them at least that I might be a corroboration to others in what they Swore against them
these Objections First as to that that you do say that you are bound to Conceal your Councels and the Kings secrets that is very true as to your Councels that is your Debates you are bound to conceal them As to the Kings secrets so long as he will have them kept secret you are bound to keep them so too but it doth not deprive the King of the benefit of having it publick if he have a desire for it you don't break your Oath if the King will make it publick you don't make it publick 't is the King does it Then as to that that you do say that you apprehend the common usage of the Kingdom to be a Law that is true Mr. Papillon in some sence a constant and uninterrupted usage goes for a Law among us but I thought I had told you before that both of ancient and later times there have been Examinations of the Witnesses in Court in Cases of this nature and we are not without presidents of it every Year every Term continually from time to time Evidence is heard in Court by the Grand-Jury it is as usual a thing with us as any thing if it be desired nothing more frequent or more common I never heard it deny'd or stood upon by any Grand-Jury in my life till of late here you may be instructed with a thousand presidents for I am sure it is a common and ordinary case upon such occasions if desired to hear the Evidence in Court Look ye Gentlemen as to that care that you have of the Kings affairs the King has reason to take it well that you are so careful for them and that you are so mindful of his concerns he hath a great deal of reason to think well of you for it And Gentlemen consider this that His Majesties Council have certainly considered of this Evidence before they brought this to a publick Enquiry or else it would be a hard thing if they should come raw and not know what the Witnesses can say for though you are the Jury to hear the Witnesses yet you must consider that the Kings Council have Examined whether he hath cause to accuse these persons or not and Gentlemen they understand very well that it will be no prejudice to the King to have the Evidence heard openly in Court or else the King would ne're desire it Foreman My Lord the Gentlemen of the Jury desire that it may be Recorded that we insisted upon it as our Right but if the Court o're rule we must submit to it L. C. J. Here are enough persons to take notice of it to make Records of such things is not usual it is not our business here to record every thing that every man will desire to be Recorded We can Record nothing but what is in Order to the Proceedings but notice enough is taken of it you need not fear but that there will be Witnesses enough L. C. J. North. Gentlemen I must say something to fortifie what my Lord Chief Justice has said If any of us had been of a different opinion we would have spoken it the same thing was stood upon and discoursed on the last Sessions and then all the Judges were of this opinion and in what all the Judges agree to you should acquiesce I must tell you from my own experience where the King will he ought to have it kept secret I have not known it done publiâ—kly in the orderly course of business but I have often known wherâ—… hath been desir'd by those which Prosecute for the King that Evidence hath been given openly and I never knew it deny'd If any of my Brothers think otherwise I desire they would speak but I tell you as to my experience this is the case Mr. Sheriff P. I desire the Witnesses may be kept out of the Court and called one by one L. C. J. It is a thing certainly that the King's Council will not be afraid of doing but Sheriffs do not use to move any thing of this nature in Court and therefore 't is not your Duty Mr. Sheriff to meddle with it Sheriff P. It was my Duty last time my Lord and appointed Mr. Att. Gen. You were acquainted 't was not your Duty last time and you appear against the King Then the Indictment was Read London ss THE Jurors for our Soveraign Lord the King upon their Oaths present that Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury late of the Parish of St. Martins in the Fields in the County of Middlesex as a false Traytor against the most Illustrious and most Excellent Prince our Soveraign Lord Charles the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King his Natural Lord the fear of God in his heart not having nor weighing the Duty of his Allegiance but being moved and seduced by the Instigation of the Devil the Cordial Love and true due and natural Obedience which true and faithful Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King towards him our said Soveraign Lord the King should and of right ought to bear wholly withdrawing and with all his strength intending the Peace and common Tranquillity in this Kingdom of England to disturb and War and Rebellion against our said Soveraign Lord the King to stir up and move and the Government of our said Soveraign Lord the King within this Kingdom of England to subvert and him our said Soveraign Lord the King from the Title Honour and Regal Name of the Imperial Crown of his Kingdom of England to Depose and Deprive and Him our said Soveraign Lord the King to death and final destruction to bring and put the 18th day of March in the Three and thirtieth year of the Reign of our Soveraign Lord Charles the Second now King of England and divers other days and times as well before as afterward in the Parish of St. Mary Le-Bow in the Ward of Cheap London Trayterously compassed imagined and intended the Death and Final Destruction of our said Soveraign Lord the King and the ancient Government of his Kingdom of England to change alter and wholly to Subvert and Him our said Soveraign Lord the King from the Title Honour and Kingly Name of his Imperial Crown of this Kingdom of England to Depose and Deprive and War and Rebellion against our said Soveraign Lord the King to move and levy within this Kingdom of England and his said most wicked Treasons and Trayterous compasses imaginations and purposes aforesaid to fulfill and perfect he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury as a false Traytor with divers Armed men Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King then being maliciously trayterously and advisedly did provide and prepare to be aiding to him the said Earl of Shaftsbury to fulfill and perfect his Treasons aforesaid And his said wicked Treasons Trayterous compasses imaginations and purposes the sooner to fulfill and perfect he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury as a false Traytor with one John Booth and other Subjects of our said Lord the
King then and there Trayterously assembled met and consulted and the same wicked Treasons and Trayterous compasses imaginations and purposes aforesaid then and there to the said John Booth and other persons to the Jury unknown in the hearing of divers Liege Subjects of our Soveraign Lord the King then and there present openly publickly maliciously trayterously and advisedly did say and declare and to perswade and induce the said John Booth to be aiding and assisting in his said Treasons Compasses Imaginations and Purposes he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury as a false Traytor maliciously advisedly and trayterously the said 18th day of March in the Three and thirtieth year of the Reign of our said Soveraign Lord the King at the Parish and Ward aforesaid within the City of London aforesaid falsly advisedly subtilly maliciously and trayterously said asserted and declared That in a short time the Parliament was to sit at Oxford and that he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury had inspected the Elections and considered the inclinations and dispositions of the generality of the Members of Parliament Elected and that he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury was satisfied that the Parliament would insist upon three Matters to wit The Bill of Exclusion against the Duke of York the Abolishing the Act of Parliament of the 35th of Queen Elizabeth and the passing of a New Bill for Vniting Protestant Dissenters with divers other good and wholesome Bills To which he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury was certain that the Kings Majesty would refuse to give his Royal Assent and therefore he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury did expect that there would be a Division between the Kings Majesty and the Parliament and that many Noble Lords and Worthy Members of the lower House did concur in the same Opinion and they were resolved to insist upon the Passing of those Bills And if the Kings Majesty refused that they meaning him the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury and the said Noble Lords and Worthy Members had provided strength to compel the Kings Majesty to Grant thereunto And that for his part he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury had provided stout men to be Commanded by Captain Wilkinson meaning one Henry Wilkinson one of the Subjects of our said now Soveraign Lord the King of which he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury had agreed that the said John Booth should be one And further The Jurors aforesaid upon their Oath do say That the aforesaid Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury his said wicked Treasons and Trayterous Imaginations to fulfill perfect and bring to effect afterwards to wit the said Eighteenth day of March in the Thirty-third year of his said now Majesties Reign in the Parish and Ward aforesaid within the City of London aforesaid as a false Traytor in the presence and hearing of divers Liege People of our said Soveraign Lord the King then and there present openly and publickly falsly maliciously advisedly and traiterously said asserted published and with a loud voice declared That our said now Lord the King was a Man of no Faith and that there was no trust in him and that our said Lord the King deserved to be deposed as well as Richard the Second late King of England deserved And further The Jurors aforesaid upon their Oath do say That the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury his said wicked Treasons and traiterous Imaginations aforesaid to be fulfilled and perfected and brought to effect the said 18th day of March in the Three and thirtieth year of his said now Majesty's Reign in the Parish and Ward aforesaid in the City of London aforesaid as a false Traytor in the presence and hearing of divers Liege Subjects of our said Lord the King then and there present openly and publickly falsly maliciously advisedly and traiterously said asserted published and with a loud voice declared That he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury would never desist until he had brought this Kingdom of England into a Commonwealth without a King and that the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury and all those that him the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury would assist and he knew many that would assist him the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury would make England a Commonwealth as Holland was And that he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury and other Traytors unknown would live as in Holland and that he our said Lord the King and all his Family should be rooted out And further The Jurors aforesaid do say That the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury his said wicked Treasons and traiterous Imaginations aforesaid to be fulfilled perfected and brought to effect afterwards the said 18th day of March in the Three and thirtieth year of his said now Majesty's Reign in the Parish and Ward aforesaid in the City of London aforesaid as a false Traytor in the presence and hearing of divers Liege Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King then and there present openly publickly falsly maliciously advisedly and traiterously said asserted published and with a loud voice declared That our now Soveraign Lord the King was a Man of an unfaithful Heart and not worthy to be trusted and not fit to Rule and Govern being false unjust and cruel to his People and if he would not be governed by his People that they meaning him the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury and other Traytors to the Jurors unknown our said Soveraign Lord the King would depose against his Allegiance and Duty and against the Peace of our said Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity c. and against the form of the Statute in such case made and provided c. Sir Fr. Withens Gentlemen of the Jury This is an Indictment against the Earl of Shaftsbury I shall not trouble you to open the Indictment because the Evidence will be somewhat long I shall only tell you which way we shall go L. C. J. North. I do not know whether you desire the Witnesses should be Examin'd apart do you desire that Gentlemen L. C. J. If you do desire it Gentlemen they shall for Mr. Sheriff hath nothing to do with it but if you do desire it you shall have the Witnesses call'd one at a time and all the rest shall be put out of the Court. Jury My Lord It is our desire L. C. J. We did deny it to Mr. Sheriff because we are to keep Men within their Duty Here it is not his Duty to meddle with any thing of this nature Foreman My Lord We desire we may have a List of their Names and that they may be put apart that they may not hear what one another say Sir Fr. Withens My Lord There is one part I would open L. C. J. There is no need for it at all You shall have their Names told you as they are call'd Mr. Harrison My Lord We pray we may have a List of their Names L. C. J. If you desire it you may have it but it will be no advantage for you
Destroy him if he come into England or the Dominions thereof and seek by force to set up his pretended Title and all such as shall Adhere unto him or raise any War Tumult or Sedition for him or by his Command as publick Enemies of our Laws Religion and Country To this end we and every one of us whose hands are here under-written do most willingly bind our selves and every one of us unto the other joyntly and severally in the Bond of one firm and loyal Society or Association and do promise and vow before God That with our joynt and particular Forces we will oppose and pursue unto Destruction all such as upon any Title whatsoever shall oppose the Just and Righteous Ends of this Association and Maintain Protect and Defend all such as shall enter into it in the just performance of the true intent and meaning of it And left this just and pious work should be any ways obstructed or hindered for want of Discipline and Conduct or any evil minded persons under pretence of raising Forces for the service of this Association should attempt or commit Disorders we will follow such Orders as we shall from time to time receive from this present Parliament whilst it shall be sitting or the Major part of the Members of both Houses subscribing this Association when it shall be Prorogued or Dissolved and obey such Officers as shall by them be set over us in the several Countreys Cities and Burroughs until the next meeting of this or another Parliament and will then shew the same Obedience and Submission unto it and those who shall be of it Neither will we for any respect of Persons or Causes or for Fear or Reward separate our selves from this Association or fail in the Prosecution thereof during our Lives upon pain of being by the rest of us prosecuted and suppressed as Perjur'd Persons and Publick Enemies to God the King and our Native Countrey To which Pains and Punishments we do voluntarily submit our selves and everyone of us without benefit of any Colour or Pretence to excuse us In Witness of all which Premisses to be inviolably kept we do to this present Writing put our Hands and Seals and shall be most ready to accept and admit any others hereafter into this Society and Association Sir Fr. Withins This Paper is very plausibly penned in the beginning and goes a great way so but in the last clause but one there they come to perfect levying of War for they do positively say they will obey such Officers as either the Parliament or the major part of them or after the Parliament is dissolved the major part of those that shall subscribe this Paper shall appoint they will obey all such Officers Foreman Pray what date is this Paper of Sir Fr. Withins It was after the Bill for the Exclusion of the Duke of York for it says that way failing they would do it by force Foreman There is no hand to it at all Sir Fr. Withins No none at all One thing I had forgot That they would joyn to destroy the Mercenary Forces about London which is down-right levying of War against the King and his Guards Mr. Sanders The design of it is pretended to oppose Popery and Arbitrary power and destroy the Papists but that doth not seem so much in its self but when you have heard the Evidence you will hear who were the Papists that were to be destroyed by this Army John Booth Jury He has stood in the face of the Court all this while L. C. J. When did Mr. Booth come down Jury He was here before we went up my Lord and hath been here ever since L. C. J. Look ye Gentlemen they tell you he was carried away and came down but now Mr. Booth No my Lord I came down but now Mr. Shepherd My Lord we desire a List of their Names that we might know who is here and who is not Mr. Godfrey This man hath been here all this while and all the others may be here for ought that I know Sir Fr. Withins In the first place give an account what discourse you have had with my Lord Shaftsbury L. C. J. Speak out that the Jury may hear you Booth I will speak as loud as I can In the month of January about the middle of January last I was introduc'd into my Lord Shaftsbury's acquaintance by one Captain Henry Wilkinson I say I was introduc'd into my Lord Shaftsbury's acquaintance by one Captain Henry Wilkinson This Captain Wilkinson is a Yorkshire Gentleman he has known me above twenty years and he and I have had familiar conversation a long while so waiting upon my Lord Shaftsbury our first business that we went about was Captain Wilkinson did pretend to receive a Commission from my Lord Shaftsbury and some others of the Lords Proprietors of the Palatinate of Carolina to be their Deputy-Governor and he told me the prospect of that Journey was like to be very hopeful and that his interest was good and that he could procure me a Commission and such a number of Acres for quality and quantity as I did desire and he said he did not design to go over immediately in his own person but he would send his eldest Son and his youngest Son and if he went he would return again as occasion should serve I consented to him in all this and we discours'd it divers times together and we went to my Lord Shaftsbury on purpose to receive Commissions in order to this purpose The first time I went there was the Earl of Craven Peter Colbert one Archdell a Quaker I thought him a Quaker because he kept his Hat on when the rest of the Lords stood bare in civility to him We discours'd the thing about Carolina After this and before Captain Wilkinson and I had several discourses about the juncture of Affairs in these times tho I knew him to be an old Royallist and one that served his Majesty and his late Father very much in the Wars yet being under great disappointments of Preferments at Court and missing the Reward he expected from the King his heart was turned another way and he had repented himself of those Services he had done for the King and was become a man of another Opinion and there was some inducements upon me that I was inclin'd to the same opinion so he express'd himself to my Lord and so from one thing to another we went on in discourse and related the several Parliaments and the Proroguing them and the Disappointments of the People and the fear of Popery and Arbitrary Power and this was not done once nor twice nor ten times for I cannot enumerate them for we kept a continual Club and convers'd together familiarly near three quarters of a year After this first acquaintance with my Lord Shaftsbury at his house I did frequently go with Captain Wilkinson and between Christmass and March four or five times and I observed this that when we
Lord Shaftsbury's own mouth Sir Fr. Withins Had you any other discourse with my Lord Shaftsbury Booth I say I made three or four Visits between Christmass and March and we had discourse every time particularly about the Kings person and if the King did refuse these motions that then these men were to be taken from him and he repell'd with a greater force and be brought to it by force Sir Fr. Withins Did you ever make any solicitation to any to make this Discovery Booth Thus far I did and I will tell you the whole matter in that point there was one Walter Banes an acquaintance of mine and I found that he had at Wilkinson's request engaged himself in some business that one Brownrig an Attorney in Yorkshire had writ to him about concerning some men that were to Swear against my Lord Shaftsbury I asked Mr. Banes what men these were he said he thought they were Irish-men I said I don't know what Conversation in that nature my Lord Shaftsbury might have with Irish-men for I know none of them but I am satisfied that he had Conversation tending to these ends that you speak of with some English-men and that I know This Mr. Banes did take particular notice of and he was very frequently upon me to tell him what the matter was and I gave him some intimation of it Truly 't was very much upon my spirit and I could not tell whether I was able to carry it through or not or had better to let it alone as it was in silence but discoursing still more with him and at the result of that discourse we had by degrees I did give him some intimation of it And after that upon second thoughts I took a resolution to discover it and when I did discover it I do here in the presence of God declare that no mortal did know any thing of what I had to say in reference to the King nor did I make any more applications in the world but took Pen Ink and Paper and writ it down and sealed it under a Cover and sent it to the Council Sir Fr. Withins Gentlemen of the Jury would you ask him any Questions Mr. Papillon The Jury told your Lordship before that after all had been examin'd they would consider what Questions L. C. J. Where would you have these Witnesses that have been examined to stand Mr. Papillon We leave it to the Sheriffs to appoint a place for them Lord Chief Justice To keep them apart it 's utterly impossible for we must have as many Rooms then as there are Witnesses Jury Let one man keep with them L. C. J. Empty that place where they were the last time and let them stand there Edward Turberville Sir Francis Withins Mr. Turberville have you had any discourse with my Lord Shaftsbury Turberville Yes several times In February last I am not positive in the time but about the beginning of the Month I waited upon my Lord Shaftsbury about some moneys I waited upon him to have his Advice how I might come by 't and to gain my Lord Shaftsbury's Letter in my behalf to the President of the Council to stand my friend and he said there was little good to be had from the King as long as his Guards were about him for were it not for his Guards we would quickly go down to Whitehal and obtain what terms we thought fit Said I my Lord I suppose his Guards can't defend him from the whole Kingdom His Lordship said That the Rabble were all of that side especially the People about Wapping and Aldersgate-street and the Rich men of the City would Vote for Elections but they could not expect they should stand by them in case there should be any Disturbance for they valued their Riches more than their Cause And at Oxford I heard my Lord say again He wonder'd the people of England should stickle so much about Religion and that if he were to choose a Religion he would have one that should comply with what was apt to carry on their Cause Mr. Sanders Had you any other discourse with him at any other time Master Turberville I told you all that is material that I can say to it John Smith Mr. Smith My Lord I only beg a word or two from your Lordship of some reflections cast upon me L. C. J. Go to your Evidence Mr. Smith My Lord this is something to my Evidence L. C. J. You may take another time for that Mr. Smith My Lord it hath been reported about in Coffee-houses and Taverns that I should Swear there was a general Design against his Majesty and that I Swore it before the King and Secretary of State and that I also Swore it at the Tryal of Mr. College and Mr. Rowse I take it upon my Oath I never Swore any such thing neither can I Swear there was a General Design by the City or the Parliament against the King Lord Chief Justice Speak what discourse you have had with my Lord Shaftsbury Mr. Smith My Lord I suppose it is past all doubt that I have been very often with my Lord Shaftsbury and I have often in his discourse observed that he spake very irreverently and slightly of the King sometimes saying he was a Weak man and sometimes saying he was an Inconstant man a Man of no firm or settled Resolution and a Man that was easily led by the Nose as his Father was before him by a Popish Queen which was the Ruine of his Father This was both in publick and in private I have also observed sometimes in his discourse something that he mention'd of the Earl of Essex and that the King should declare That the Earl of Shaftsbury was not satisfied to be an ill man himself but got over the Earl of Essex too This the Earl of Shaftsbury declar'd publickly in his own house Another story was of the Rebellion of Scotland That the King should say that the Earl of Shaftsbury was the chief Promoter of that Rebellion and when this was told my Lord Shaftsbury that he should send word back again to the King I am glad says he that the King sees not his own Danger nor what he runs himself into and pray tell him that if I were to raise a Rebellion I could raise anotherguess Rebellion than the Rebellion was in Scotland But now as to the particular points I am to charge him with I remember my Lord that my Lord Shaftsbury sent for me one time and that by one Manly sometimes they call him Major Manly sometimes Captain Manly and this man found me at Mr. Bethel's Club in Newgate-street at the Queens Arms and there he told me my Lord Shaftsbury would speak with me that night I immediately left the Club and went to my Lord Shaftsbury's and I was introduc'd into the Dining Room where there were two Gentlemen in discourse with my Lord and as soon as he saw me he askt me how I did I told him I was very
Gentlemen that came out of the Country were well provided with Horse Arms and Men to oppose him and that they might lawfully do it if the King offered any Violence to them whilst they sat and that the Nation stood by them and that they did represent the Nation and that for his part he and all his Friends would do it to the utmost of their Power and as Old as he was he would be one that would oppose it to his power My Lord said I we can expect nothing but Confusion from this Parliament in this Nature for then we shall be involved in another Civil-War nothing else can put an end to our Miseries or make this Nation a settled Nation but a Civil-War Then my Lord said I by this means wee shall make an end of Monarchy or else inslave the Nation to Popery for ever No doubt of one say's he but we are sure of one for the Nation is of our side and the City you know how they are and where ever they Strike I am sure the Nation will and this I 'le stand and dye by This is the substance of what I have to say against my Lord Shaftsbury and upon the Oath I have taken I am sure I have not added a Word One Word more I have to say 'T is reported I have been hired and Suborn'd I do admire why this City of London where there are as worthy men and as great Lovers of the King and Government as any in the World should say any such thing I was never Suborn'd by them nor never took a farthing of their money nor never took a farthing of the King in my life L. C. J. Who supposes it Mr. Smith 'T is in print my Lord 't was in the Book that came out last night it is suppos'd my Lord for it is in print L. C. J. I had reason to expect that there was no such objection Brian Haines Mr. Sanders Give your knowledge of what discourse you have heard concerning my Lord Shaftsbury Mr. Haines Sir I have heard him Villifie the King very often and he told me about the Narrative that I made about Sir Edmond-Bury Godfrey's death Mr. Ivey and I went to him one day and he spoke to me of it and I desired him not to expose my person to the King's Anger for I was sure he would never grant a pardon to any man that impeached the Earl of Danby Say's he Do not fear if he doth not grant you a pardon he makes himself the Author of the Plot and say's he the Earl of Essex my Lord Maxfield and I wee do all resolve if you put in writing we will go to the King and beg a pardon of his Majesty for you and if he doth not grant it we will raise the whole Kingdom against him for say's he he must not expect to live peaceably in his Throne if he doth not grant it For he makes himself author of the Plot. My Lord said I he hath dissolved so many Parliaments for the sake of the Earl of Danby and prorogued so many Parliaments therefore he will never grant me this Pardon Say's he doe not fear 't is the best pretence we can have in the world and if you will but put in writing and let me read it that I may give my opinion of it the work is done and if he doth not do it we are prepar'd to raise Arms against him I was with him another time after I made this Narrative and he told me the two Mr. Godfrey's were with the King at Windsor and begged a pardon of his Majesty for me but the King would not grant it but if he be an honest man let him lye at my mercy let him come in and declare what he knows Said I I would not have your Lordship expose my cause in these day's This is the best time for it in the world say's he if he doth not do it he can't expect to be long King of England Pray my Lord said I what shall I do in the mean time I will go beyond Sea said I. No sayes he don't leave the Kingdom he dares as well be hang'd as meddle with you I desir'd him a second time not to expose me to the King's fury and I prayed him to help me to a little money to go beyond Sea for I was sure I could not be safe in England Sayes he Have a care of your self but sayes he he dares as well be hang'd as meddle with you Then I was in close conference with him one day and I gave him so exact an account of all Transactions from King Charles the First 's Reign the commencement or coming to the Crown to this very day that he was mightily satisfied finding by me that I was a Traveller he was mightily pleased and free with me Pray my Lord what Model do you take or intend to do Sayes he Do you not think but there are Families in England that have as great pretences to the Crown as the King Sayes he there is the Duke of Bucks in the right of his Mother she was descended from Edward one of the Edwards and in her Right he claimes the Barony of Ross he hath as great a Right to the Crown of England as ever any Stewart of them all Jury Speak that again Mr. Haines I was in Conference with my Lord Shaftsbury one day and I gave him an exact account of all Transactions and I asked what they did intend to do with the Government if they pull'd the King down Sayes he Do you think there are no Families in England that have as much pretence to the Crown as any of the Stewarts I know none my Lord sayes he there is the Duke of Bucks that is descended of the Family of the Plantagenets he named some of the Edwards and in her right he should have the Barony of Ross and in her Right he has as good a Title to the Crown of England as ever any Stewart had John Macnamarra Sworn Sir Francis Withins Pray give an account to the Jury of what discourse you have had with my Lord Shaftsbury John Macnamarra My Lord I was with my Lord Shaftsbury a little before he went to Oxford before the Parliament sat there and my Lord told me at that time that he would take care together with those that were with him at Oxford for the Witnesses that were concerned in the Popish Plot. Mr. Harrison Speak out pray Sir John Macnamarra My Lord told me he would take care with those that were with him for the Witnesses that were concern'd in the Popish Plot after my Lord went to Oxford I writ him a Letter giving his Lordship to understand That whereas his Lordship was pleased to promise that he would take care of the Witnesses that he would be pleased to take care of me as well as the rest of the Witnesses after my Lord came home from Oxford I went to him to see what was done His Lordship was pleased