Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	john_n	richard_n	thomas_n	46,501	5	8.2339	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A27361	A iustification of The city remonstrance and its vindication, or, An answer to a book written by Mr. J.P. entituled, The city remonstrance remonstrated wherein the frequent falsifyings of the said Mr. J.P. are discovered, the many charges by him laid upon the remonstrance and its vindicator, disproved, and the parity and agreement of the remonstrance ... with the propositions, declarations, remonstrances, and votes, of both or either House of Parliament manifested / by John Bellamie.	Bellamie, John, d. 1654.; Price, John, Citizen of London. City remonstrance remonstrated.	1646 (1646)	Wing B1814; ESTC R4476	42,384	58

A IVSTIFICATION OF THE City Remonstrance AND ITS VINDICATION OR An Answer to a Book written by Mr. I. P. Entituled The City Remonstrance Remonstrated Wherein the frequent Falsifyings of the said Mr. I. P. are discovered the many Charges by him laid upon the Remonstrance and its Vindicator disproved and the parity and agreement of the Remonstrance especially in those particulars so much condemned by him with the Propositions Declarations Remonstrances and Votes of both or either House of Parliament manifested By JOHN BELLAMIE LONDON Printed by Richard Cotes 1646. To the Right Honorable Thomas Adams Lord Major and to the Right Worshipfull the Aldermen and the rest of the Common-Councell of the City LONDON Right Honourable Right Worshipfull VPon the 14 of April last you being in Court of Common-councell assembled made choice of a Committee of Aldermen and Commoners to prepare a draught of A Remonstrance and Petition to both Houses of Parliament and to present it in Court to be there either approved or altered as upon debate should be judged meet In obedience thereunto the said Committee upon the 20 of May following presented it in Common-councell where every branch thereof was taken apart and by it self into serious Consideration and after three dayes debating in open Court it was by consent and approbation of the Court finished and upon the 26 of May in the name of the Lord Major Aldermen and Common-councell presented to both Houses of Parliament Since which time two Libells have been Printed against the said Remonstrance the one call'd A moderate Reply to the City Remonstrance the other entituled The Interest of England maintained In one of which it is charged to carry a full complyance with His Majesties wonted Declarations against the Parliament and in the other That a great part of the main Sticklers in it are such as were alwayes backward to the Parliament and forced to pay their Fifth and twentieth part with many other foolish foule and false aspersions in them both Whereupon though the unmeetest because the unablest of many others I adventured the Vindication of it In answer whereof a●d in further opposition to the said Remonstrance one Mr. J. P. hath since published a Book named The City Remonstrance Remonstrated calling it a hard-hearted Remonstrance and a Remonstrance invective against the Parliament c. And in Page 29. charges mee● for saying s●mething but instances in nothing concerning the King the Lords and the power of the Commons and what my carriages have been not very long since in Common-councell c. and doth thereby as it were in a tacite way call the Court to testifie against me All which hath occasioned me this second time to put pen t● Paper in a further Justification of your Remonstrance and also of its Vindication and to a clearing of my self from those many charges of mutation and change which to beget a d●sesteem of what I have written in Vindication of the Remonstrance hee hath laid against me My intention in this my addresse unto your Lordship to the worthy Aldermen and to all the rest of the Common-councell is neither to exasperate you against the person of my opposite nor yet to seeke protection from you for my self or Books for if what I have written be not co●cordable to Truth and true Reason let both mee and them fall before my Antagonist But being thus publ●kely charged that I should not very long since speak something but what it is hee saith not in Common-councell c. as if it were crosse or contrary to some passages in the Remonstrance or to what I have written in the Vindication thereof for saith he It makes them that heard it and observe what your Carriages are now stand with admiration and amazement at your wheeling thus about I ●oe therefore humbly crave leave to present this my Justification of your Remonstrance and its Vindication to your Lordship and to the whole Court of Common-councell and doe appeal to all of you in generall and to every one of you in particular t●●estifie against me if at any time since I had that undeserved honour and happinesse to be a member of this Court there ever fell any one word from me so much as savouring of such things as by this Mr. J. P. I am charged to speak in your presence and I shall ever remain Your Lordships and this Cities servant IOHN BELLAMIE To my truly Loved and Honoured FRIEND Mr. IOHN PRICE SIR I Have perused your Book entituled The City Remonstrance Remonstrated or an answer to my Vindication of the said Remonstrance wherin I perceive you have been very ready to receive whatever Reports either true or false have been broug●t unto you conc●rning my carriage in matters of Religion even from the day of my birth to the publishing of your Book and taking them upon trust for you have not the least knowledge of any one of the particular● and many of them relate I think to the time before you were born without ever speaking one word to me about them though wee are professed and have been long acquainted ●ntimate Friends and to the best of my knowledge and remembrance not any time the least offensive word ever passed between us and now are so neare neighbors that whenever you p●eased in lesse then one quarter of an hour you might freely have communicated to me whatever you h●d a desire to bee satisfied in you have as I con●eive to weaken my esteem and to render what I have written to bee the more invalid divulged them to the world Two th●ngs I desire i● love to represent unto you in this First if all that you have written of mee were true the contrary wherof I shall easily prove when I come to the particulars yet I beseech you consider how irregular this your proceeding against me is and contrary to the rule given by our Saviour Christ for you and mee and all Gods people to walke by in Mat●h 18. 15 16 17. If thy brother trespasse against thee goe and tell him his fault between thee and him alone if he shall heare thee thou hast gained thy brother c. and mind that of Solomon Prov. 15. 18. A man that beareth false witnesse against his neighbour is a maul a sword and a sharpe arrow Secondly I pray also remember how exceedingly your selfe and all your friends the Antipresbyters have distasted and by word of mouth often with much dislike blamed Mr. Edwards for medling with personall matters notwithstanding his way of writing in this kind is much different from this of yours as being of practises and matters within these few years since they went into that way of Independency and as hee conceives flowing from their principles and not as you in this of things raked up through the whole course of their lives being also professedly to discover the errors of the times viz Here●ies Blasphemies c. and thereby to preserve the people from the evill of them Now I pray

that upon good grounds hath been one maine instrument by mis-reports to have thus misled you and therein abused mee but if it bee so God give him grace to see his sin and forgive it him or whoever it was I trust my heart shall never with consent entertaine so much as the shadow of a thought to make the like requitall but I will study and indeavour and lay hold upon every opportunity which the Lord shall hold forth unto mee to doe all the good I can to him to them to you for this your evill done to mee remembring what our Saviour Christ hath taught mee Matth. 5. 44. Love your enemies blesse them that curse you doe good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you But I beseech you all seriously to consider that if this bee not persecution with the tongue then tell mee what is And I pray you considerately to ponder and weigh well that of the Prophet Ieremy 20. 10. and make such use of it to your owne soules as God shall direct you to doe the words are these I heard the defaming of many feare on every sid report say they and wee will report it all my familiars watched for my halting saying Peradventure 〈◊〉 will bee enti●●d and we shall prevaile against him and we shall take our revenge on him But my comfort and stay in this I trust s●all be the same with the Prophet in that manifested in the next verse But the Lord is with me as a mighty terrible one therefore my persecutors shall stumble and they shall not prevaile they shall bee greatly ashamed for they sh●ll not prosper I fu●ther appeale for proofe of what I affirme unto Mr. Henry Roborough now one of the Scribes of the Assembly of Divines and Pastor of Leonards E●st cheape London whether hee hath not at that time observed that Mr. Jacob and other knowne members of that Congregation did usually communicate in the Ordin●nces of Christ in the publike Congregations And whether hee hath not with his owne hands administred the Lords Supper to Mr. Jacob and other then knowne members of his Church And that the members of this Congregation did then not onely communicate in the publique Assemblies in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper but also in the Sacrament of Baptisme yea that they did b●ptize their owne children in the publique Assemblies I appeale for the truth of this unto the testimony of so many of them as bee now living and remember the Churches practice in this particular at that time and if there bee none now living that can remember and will testifie this then in particular I appeale to the Register Book of Andrew Hubbard London whether upon the 7 of December 1623. there was not then and there baptized Susan the daughter of Robert Lynell and of Susan his Wife both which was then Parishioners of that Parish and members of this C●ngregation and R●bert Lynell ● Deacon of the Church I fu●ther appeal unto the Regi●●er-book of Saviours Southwarke whether upon the third of February 1624. there was not then and there baptized B●rshua● the daughter of Daniel Ray who then was a Pa●ishioner of that Parish and a member of this Congregation I could produce many others in the like kind but these may suffice to confirme the truth of what I affirme neither would I have printed this but for the witnesse of this truth viz. That that Congre●ation did then ho●d it not onely lawfull but of nec●ssity upon pain of sin ●e●rding to the Printed Confession of Faith to c●mmunicate in the publike Ministery and Ordin●nces and that both of Baptisme and the Lord● Supper Neither do I write this in the least measure to reflect upon the present now members of that Congregation if in their judgments and practice they now walk otherwise provided that by the warrant of the word of God they can clearly justifie their present walking but I must crave your favor for my self stil to continue in the same judgment and practice I then was and which is concordable to the then Confession of the Faith of the Church as unto communion in the Parish Congregations both in the Ministery and Ordinances of Baptisme and the Lords Supper though you falsely charge me of mutation and change in so doing And thus I hope I have shewed you your mistake in that you affirm I applyed my self to a separate Congregation I shall also endevour to give you as ample an account of the just reason as I humbly conceive of my leaving them Mr. Ia●ob leaving England and going to Virginia the Congregation was then for a time to the best of my remembrance left without a Pastor and then many of the members of the said Congregation varying in their judgements from what was in the Confession of the Faith of the Church formerly printed and being now both in judgement and practice against Communion in the Ordinances of Christ in the publike Congregations which by the Confession of the Faith of the Church we were bound upon pain of sin to maintain both in judgement and practice this occasioned many disputes and some differences a● last the point of Ordination of Ministers came under debate which was the first yea the onely occasion that Put a thought into my breast about my departing from that Congregation And at that time Mr. Iohn Lothrop a learned holy humble and painfull Preacher was the Pastor then the Congregation ordered three of their members to conferre with mee about that difference I then did now doe and ever will acknowledge their great love and tender respect to mee in it but after ●undry Conferences and wee not agreeing I thought it my duty to signifie my mind in writing under my hand to the whole Congregation which I then did in these words To his dearly beloved Christian Friends Mr. John Lothrop and all the rest of the Congregation with him assembled this publikely present Christian Friends and dearly beloved in the Lord Jesus Christ having by the Congregations appointment had Conference with three of the Brethren about a point in controversie which wee cannot agree I thought it my duty to signifie my minde in writing to the whole Congregation which is That after many thoughts spent and some paines taken in Conference and examination of Scriptures and searching the judgements of Divines both ancient and moderne about the matter in controversie viz. Ordination or the compleat investing of persons chosen by the free consent of the Congregation into those Offices for Ministeriall imployments unto which they are elected I conceive for the Reasons following this to be the truth viz. That it ought to bee performed actually by precedent Church-Officers 1. Because that the Apostles in Acts 6. finding the Church to be in want of Officers gave them direction for the performance of what was their duties tending to the obtaining of the aforesaid wants which was to elect persons qualified according to direction

like bee said as of Books so of men where is the man without his errors without his miscariages as I will not accuse so I beleeve you will not excuse Mr. I. P. himselfe from these And truly for ●y self I dare not to these plead my defence for I know more by my selfe then you or all your Reporters can accuse me of and earnestly humbly I desire that God may be glorified both in my acknowledgement of them to him and his pardoning of them to mee but upon what ground you should thus boldly breake in upon mee knowing nothing of any thing that of the●e you affirme I can but wonder I pray be pleased to make a second inquiry amongst all your Reporters and see if they can make it out for truth unto you that ever at any time in any place either by word or writing any thing fell from mee either for Bishops for Separates for Schismaticks or for Sectaries and if not as confident I am nor you nor they can then why doe you wrong your selfe and your Cause in thus going about to wrong me by reporting and divulging these untruths of me But I have tyred out my selfe and perhaps wearied the Reader too in following you so long upon these personall things yet must I needs crave favour to particularize one passage more viz. in your 29 pag. in these words viz. Mr. John Bellamie what kinde of man are you They that observe your sayings what they have been formerly concerning the King concerning the Lords concerning the power of the Commons whispering your thoughts in the eares of many that now speake of it what your carriages have been not very long since in Common-Councell or among your brethren the Stationer's the Committee appointed for the keeping up and maintaining the Expository Lectures and what your carriages are now stand with admiration and amusement at your wheeling thus about Answ. I desire the Reader to observe the many Charges which in this you lay against mee at the least six yet you particularize not any one might I not more justly then you take your owne words used in reference to Quarterman in your 12 page and apply them to that which in this you spake against mee viz. Hang him hang him what hath he done And what I pray you may such as know mee not be ready to judge of mee when they heare so many and so great Charges in the generall laid against mee and seemingly confirmed by so many Witnesses as the whole Common-Councell the Company of Stationers the Committee for Expository Lectures was there ever the like passages printed against any man by the worst of enemies that ever he had to charge him with something against the King as if that were Treason something against the Lords Commons as if that were either Treason or at least Scandalum Magnatum and this to be whispered by mee in the eares of many that now speake of it againe and yet to instance in nothing at all and then furth●r to say what your carriages have been not very long since in Common-Councell or among your Brethren the Stationers the Committee appointed for the keeping 〈…〉 maintaining the Expository Lectures Now I appeale to your own soule whether this your dealing can have any defence m●de for it And I do appeale also to the worst of Enemies that I have alive as it seemes I have a great many for I thanke you heartily for it you told mee privately by word of mouth upon Saturday the 8 of this August that there is a Booke of the History of my life already drawn up and fitted for the Presse wherein are many heavie Charges laid against me in the matters of my conversation to make any thing good against mee in any of these generalls which here you sp●ak of and in particular I appeal to the Court of Common-Councell to the Company of Stationers and to the Committee a●pointed for the keeping up and maintaining the Expository Lectures for all these you seeme to bring as witnesses against me whether ever I did or spake any thing at any time in any of the●e Assemblies which in any thing was any way crosse or contrary either to the City Remonstrance or to any thing in my Vindication thereof for you say that they observing your now carriages stand with admiration and amasement at your wheeling thus about Mr I. P. I pray remember that Scripture which in your 1● page you set in a parallel against a passage in the Remonstrance to prove that the Common-Councell doth act in a direct evident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God and bring it hither and set it likewise in parallel against this your dealing with me and then tell mee who doth act in a direct evident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God the Scripture you cite is Matth. 7. 12. As you would that men should doe unto you so doe unto them for this is the Law and the Prophets Mr. I. P. I beseech you aske your owne soule whether you would that I or any other man should deale thus by you as you have dealt by me gathering up whatever you cou●d heare against mee whether true or false in my carriages about matters of Religion and that for above 30 yeares together and though you know nothing of any one of them more or lesse and there being not one of them true as you relate them yet without ever speaking one word to me about them with such boldnesse and confidence of truth to publish them to the world And now tell me Whether you doe as you would bee done unto and whether in this your owne Conscience being your judge you doe not act in a direct evident and obvious manner against the expresse will and word of God But I must break off yet with this resolution that your indeavour thus to blaz on my Name and blast my Repute shall by Gods grace quicken mee up to a more Christian watchfulnesse over all my wayes that I may walke more inoffensively towards men and more pleasingly before God and I blesse my God that my Name is neither in the power of your tongue nor pen nor yet of your reporters neither but onely in the hand power of my good God who is able to keep that which I have committed to him and I blesse his Name I am not in any thing terrified by that which you or they have in this already done in thus seeking to defame mee nor yet I hope ever shall bee at that History of my Life which you say is ready for the Presse to be Printed against mee Next you come in your 22 page to that question wherein resides the Supreme power of the Kingdome and upon this Argument you continue neare to the end of your Book and in page 23 you begin your Que●ies and first you aske what I meane by three Estates and yet in the same and the foregoing pages you

by the fundamentall Constitution of the Kingdome I humbly also conceive that there is just reason for it too and that not onely from the relation which these three Estates have one to another but also because of that interest which one Estate hath in another The King being no otherwise King of England but with relation to the subjects of England and so he hath an interest in them and they are his liege that is his lawfull Subjects or his Subjects according to the Law And likewise the Lords and Commons of England are no otherwise Subjects of England but with relation to the King as hee is the King of England in whom also they have the like reciprocall interest and so he is their liege our lawfull Soveraigne or their King according to the Law and thus runs the formes of our Laws viz. Bee it enacted by the King our Soveraigne Lord with the assent of the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament Assembled But the City of London by the Charter of Edw. 3. in the 15 yeare of his Reigne hath a power granted to the Major and Aldermen and their successors with the assent of the Commonalty to make lawes for the common profit of the Citizens of the same City by vertue of which grant the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in Court of Common-Councell assembled being therin as one entire Court the representative Body of the City doe to this day make Laws which are alwayes binding to the Citizens of the same City And there is no other consent required to the consummation of these Laws but the sole and onely authority of this Court and therefore all our Acts of Common-councell are made in the joint names of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in the Court of Common-councell assembled and by the authority thereof and in the addition of any branch in an act of Common councell it is still thus exprest It is by this Court further Ordered c. Or this Court doth further Order c. which doth fully prove that all the power of making or altering or adding to the City lawes rests wholly and alone in the body of that one Court of Common-councell or the greater number of them which doth alwayes consist of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons but all the power of making or repealing or adding to the lawes of the kingdome doth not rest wholly and alone in the House of Commons but the concurrent consent of the other two Estates viz. the King and the Lords is necessarily required to this of the Commons for making or repealing of the Laws of the Kingdome And thus I hope I have answered your first head of Queries arising from that question viz. wherein resides the Supreme power of the Kingdome I shall now likewise endeavour to give a solution to your Argument and all the satisfaction I can to the second head of your Queries For a foundation to build your Arguments upon you produce an Argument of mine out of my Book entit●led A Plea for the Commonalty of London thus it is That Court which hath a power to make a law and by that law to conferre a power upon the Lord Major and Aldermen which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before must needs bee quoad hoe as unto the making of a law above the Lord Major and Aldermen But this Court of Common-councell hath c. Ergo this Court of Common-councell so farre as to the making of a Law must needs bee above the Lord Major and Aldermen Answ. I owne the Argument and for confirmation of what I t●●re affirmed concerning the power of the Court of Common-councell I made it good and proved it d● facto by an act of Common-councel made in the sixth yeare of Hen. 7. upon the 15 of Aprill concerning the choice of the Chamberlaine of London and the Bridge-masters of the City as by reference to the said Book appeareth and I would willingly see what you have to say against it But upon this in your 25 page you thus argue That Court which hath the power to make a law and by that law to conferre a power upon the King and Lords which as King and Lords they had not before must needs be quoad hoc unto the making of a law above the King and Lord But the House of C●mmon● which say you speaking of mee is the kingdome representative even as the Common-councell is the City representative upon your suppos●tion hath a power c. Ergo the House of Commons so far as unto the making of a law must needs bee above the King and Lords But I pray you tell me is there no difference between the Court of Common-councell and the Commons in Common-councel I told you even now in page 42 that the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in Common-councell assembled being therein one entire Court are the representative body of the City I never said the Commons in that Court were so and if you had been pleased to have perused that Booke of mine you cite to this purpose and out of which you take my argument viz. The Ple● for the Commonalty of London in page 10. where I instance in four severall acts of that Court viz. the removing of Deputy Ald●n from the Court Mr. Iohn Wilde from being Town Clerk Mr. Tho. Wiseman from being the City Remembrancer and divers Aldermens Deputies from their places of Deputyship you might there have found that I thus conclude it viz. And all this by the joint and concurrent power of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in this Common-councell assembled And what though the Court of Common-councell which alwayes consisteth of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons have a power to conferre upon the Lord Major and Aldermen that power which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before as I fully proved and therefore without the least mutation am still of the same mind and in that respect as unto the making of a Law are above the Lord M●jor and Aldermen as the whole is above a part● But will it hence follow that the Commons in Common-councell alone and by themselves have either this power to conferre a power upon the Lord Major and Aldermen which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before or that they are above them If you will argue from my assertion bee sure you keep my terms and then see how it will advantage you for the confirmation of your argument I grounded this power of making City Laws from the Charter of Edw. 3. in the 15 yeare of his Reigne And in the same Book of mine out of which you took my argument you might also have had my authority for it it is in page 7 in these words Wee have granted further for us and our heires and by this our present Charter confirmed to the Major and Aldermen of the City aforesaid that if any customes in the said City hitherto obtained and used be in any part difficult