Some in my chamber so they were dismissed Then I beseeched the Lâ—s to graunt a publicke conference that it might appearâ— to al men what we held and where we erred The Arch B. in great choller said we should haue no publicke conference we had published to much already and therfore he now committed vs close prisoners B. But contrary to law The L. Tr. said it might be vpon such occasions done by law and asked whither I had any learning Cant. and Lond. with one consent answered togither that I had no learning B. The Lord knoweth I am ignorant I haue no learning to boast of but this I know that yow are voide of al true learning and godlines L. Buckh. See the spirit of this man Then requested I conference againe and that in writing which was againe by Cant. very peremtorilie denyed He said that he had matter to cal me before him for an hereticke B. That shal yow neuer doe yow know my former answer to that matter wel erre I may but hereticke by the grace of God wil I neuer be L. Buckh. That is wel said The L. Tr then taking vp a paper of Somes abstract questions which lay among the Bs euidence against me read this That I held it vnlawful to enacte a law that the ministers shal liue by tithes or the people pay them and demaunded of me whither I held tithes vnlawful B. My Lo. they are abrogated and vnlawful L. Tr. Why thoâ—â— wouldest 〈…〉 haue the 〈…〉 of somewhat wherof should he 〈…〉 B. Ex pura eleemosyna of clere almes as Christ in his Testament hath ordeyned and as he and his Apostles L. Tr. But how if the people wil not giue B. Such are not the people of God L. Tr. But what shal the ministers doe in the meane time B. Not stand a minister to such neither take the goods of the prophane L. Tr. Where canst thow shew me now in the Scriptures that the ministers now ought not to liue vpon tithes B. I took the bible and turned to these two places Heb. 7 12. Gal. 6 6. in the one where tithes are abrogate in the other that an other provision is made for them Lond. began the â—auil at the wordes pure and cleere almes Cant. at the place in the Hebr. saying that the authors intent was to proue an abrogation of the preisthod B. Why the wordes of the text are these If the preisthod be changed then of necessitie must ther be a change of the law and yow cannot deny but that tithes were a part of that law alleging Num. 18. L. Tr. What wouldst thow haue him to haue al my goodes B. No my Lo. but I would haue yow to withhold none of your goodes from helping him neither rich nor pore are exemted from this duty ffurder I shewed that if the minister had thinges necessarie as food and rapment he ought to hold him self contented neither ought the church to giue him more Then had we some talke concerning the word Preist the L. Tr. said that the ministers now were not to be called preistes B. If they receiue tithes they are preistes Moreouer they be called preistes in the law Lond. Why what is the word presbyter I pray yow B. An elder Lond. What in age onely B. No Timothie was a yong man Lond. Presbyter is latine for a preist B. It is no latine word but deriued and signifieth the same which the greek word doth which is an Elder Lon. what makest thow a preist B. Him that doth offer sacrifices for so it is written euery where in the law As we were thus reasoning the L. Chanc. asked me if I knew not those two men pointing to Cant. and Lond. B. Yes my Lo. I haue cause to know them L. Chanc. But what is not this the Bp. of London B. I know him for no Bishop my Lo. L. Ch. What is he then B. His name is Elmar my Lo. The Lord pardon my fault that I laid him not open for a wolfe a bloody persecutor and Apostata But by this time the Wardens man plucked me vp L. Chanc. What is that man pointing to Cant. B. The Lord gaue me the spirit of boldnes so that I answered He is a monster a miserable compound I know not what to make him he is neither Ecclesiastical nor ciuil euen that second Beast spoken of in the Reuelation L. Treas Wher is that place shew it B. So I turned to the 13. Chap. and began at the 11. verse and read a litle Then I turned to 2. Thes 2. But the Beast arose for anger gnashing his teeth and said wis yow suffer him my Lords So I was pluckt vp by the Wardens man from my â—nees and caried away As I was â—e parting I desired the Lo. Treas that I might haue the libertie of the aire but had no answer and I prayed the Lord to blesse their honours So I was led forth by an other way then I came in that I might not see the brethren nor they me This is the effect so neere as my euil memorie could cary away the very wordes that were vsed to me and by me in that place The Lord pardon my vnworthines and vnsanctified hart and mouth which can bring no glory to the Lord or benefite to his church but rather reproch to the one and affliction to the other But the Lord knoweth how to deliuer the godly out of tentation and to reserue the vniust vntil the day of iudgement vnder punishment The L. Treas admonished me and told me that I took the Lords name often in vaine I haue forgotten vpon what occasion he spake it But I beseech the Lord that I may not forget this his good admonition but may set a more careful watch before my lippes for sure no doubt I am greatly guiltie that way and neuer vse his holy name with that reuerence I ought THe answers of John Grenewood at London pallace before the 2. L. chief Justices of Engl. the Mr. of the Rolles the L. chief Baron togither with the Arch B. of Cant. the B. of Lond. the B. of Winch. with others to certaine interrogatories as foloweth Q. WHat is your name A. John Grenewood Q. Lay yowr hand vpen the book yow must take an oath A. I wil sweare by the name of God if ther be any need but not by or vpon a book Q. We wil then examine yow without an oath Are yow a minister A. No I was one after your orders Q. Who disgraded yow A. I disgraded my self through Gods mercy by repentance then after many wordes they brought forth a paper conteyning certaine articles in manner of questions as foloweth Q. Is is lawful to vse the Lordes prayer publickly or privatly as a prayer or no A. It is a doctrine to direct al our prayers by but seing it conteyneth the doctrine of the holy Scripture no man can vse the same as a private or publick prayer because he hath not present need to aske al the
God left for the ordering of his owne howse for as the Apostle saith Hebr. 3 3. he Yea and his ordinances are worthy of more honour then Moses his were And he that addeth vnto the wordes of this book that is to the true order of the church and pure worship of God conteyned therin the Lord God wil adde vnto him of the plagues that are written in this book saith the spirit of God Reuel 22 19. F. Yow allow of M. Luther I am sure what office had he P. He was first a moncke and so a member by his office of the kingdome of Antichrist euen a good while after the Lord had vsed him as a notable instrument to ouerthrow that kingdome afterward he was vtterly disgraded and depriued of al offices so that as the spirit of God saith Reu. 13. 17. he could neither buy nor sel by vertue of any libertie or freedome that he had within the kingdome of the Beast And by this meanes in the Lords great favour he caried not in this regarde any of the Beastes markes he was not of his name nor of the number of his name he denied himself to belong to that kingdome of Satan and that malignant church vtterly refused him to be any of her body and members Since his excommunication and degradation by the Romish church he nameth himself Ecclesiasten in a book of his so 〈…〉 that is a preacher of Christes blessed truth and gospel Now whither he preached by vertue of a lawful office whervnto he was called in the church of Christ or whither he taught bâ— vertue of his giftes and the opportunitie which he had to manifest the truth hauing neither time nor leisure nor yet thinking it needful it mar be to consider by what office he did it I know not of this I am assured that he was one of the famous and glorious witnesses of the Lo. Jesus raised vp to testifie on his behalfe against the abominations of the kingdome of Antichrist and I am assured that by his tongue and pen the Lo. appeared glorioussie in the power of his gospel to the consumption of that man of sin 2. Thes 2 8. Of his office I iudge the best as of a matter vnknowne vnto me that is I thinke him to haue had a pastoral office in the church of Wittemberg whither he had or not his example is no law for the church to walke by it is Chr. Jesus alone that we must heare and folow according to his wil and word must we frame our walking and if it be an Angel from heauen that wil draw vs to swarue from the same we dare not giue eare vnto him Gal. 1. 8. 9. F. And what office had yow in powr church which meet in woods and I know not where P. I haue no office in that pore congregation and as for our meetinges either in woods or any where els we haue the example of our sauiour Christ of his church and servantes in al ages for our warrant it is against our willes that we goe into woods or secret places as we are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ so our desire is to professe the same openly we are ready before men and Angels to shew and to justifie our meetings and our behauiour in them desiring earnestly that we may haue peace and queietnes to serue our God euen before al men that they may be witnesses of our vpright walking towards our God and al the world especially towards our Prince and countrie We know that meeting in woods in taues in mountaines etc. is a part of the crosse and basenes of the gospel wherat it is easy for the natural man to stumble but we are gladly partakers of this meane estate for the Lords sacred veritie and the question should not be so much where we meet as what we doe in our meetings whither our meetings and doings he warranted by the word or not and what inforced vs to meet in these places F. We wil speak of yr vnlawful assemblies afterwards but what caling haue yow to preach were yow neuer made minister according to the order of this land P. I might if I had bene willing haue bene made either Deacon or preist but I thanke the Lo. I euer disliked those popish orders and if I had taken them I would vtterly refuse them and not stand by them at any hand I haue taught publickly in the church of Scotland being thervnto desired earnestly and called by the order of that church charge I neuer had any and therfore I neuer bare office either there or in any other church F. Did not yow preach in these your secret meetings what warr it haue yow so to doe if yow haue no publick office in your church P. Whither I did or not I doe not tel yow for the present But this I say that if the same poore congregation desired to haue the vse of my smal giftes for the instructioÌ„ and consolatioÌ„ therof I would being thervnto prepared most willingly bestow my poore taleÌ„t to their mutual edification and mine F. And may yow teach in the church publickly hauing no publick office therin P. I may because I am a member therof and requested thervnto by the church and iudged to be indued in some measure with giftes meet for the handling of the Lordes sacred word The body of Christ that is euery particuler congregation of the church ought to haue the vse of al the giftes that are in any member therof and the member cannot deny vnto the body the vse of those graces wherwith it is furnished except it wil break the lawâ—â— and order of the body and become vnnatural vnto the same Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. F. Then euery one that wil may preach the word in your assemblie P. Not so for we hold it merely vnlawful yea tending to the Anabaptistical inversion of al good order in the church for any maÌ„ to intermedle with the Lords holy truth beyond the boundes of his giftes or pet for him that is indued with gifts to preach or teach in the church except he be desired and caled thervnto by the body F. But may any preach that hath not an office in the church so to doe P. Yea that he may and the word of God bindeth him to preach whosoever he be that intendeth to become a Pastor or Teacher in the church of Christ before he take his office vpon him and bindeth the church to take the trial of his giftes before they giue him his office least otherwise he should not be meet for it or at the least that handes should not be suddenly laid vpon him 1. Tim. 3 10. and 5 23. F. What office hath he al this while P. No other office then euery member of the body hath who are bound to haue their seueral operation in the body according to that measure of grace which they deriue from their head the Lo. Jesus by the power of his spirit working in them Rom.
this present and they themselues say that your separating from vs a great stombling block vnto them wherby also they take occasion to doe the like P. What we doe in our meetings and what our purposes are I haue told yow simply as in the presence of the Lord and weare ready by the grace of God to approue our actions and purposes to be in al good conscience both towards the Lord and our Prince and toward al men if the number of the idolatrous ignorant Papists be increased it is no wonderful case by reason of the smal teaching that the poore people of the land haue and their increase is in the iust iudgement of God in that so many remnants of popery are left vnbanished in the land but specialy because these baits are reteined here wherby the Pope is continualy drawen to send ouer his Jesuits and Seminaries wherby also they are most easily and willingly induced to come and pervert her maiesties subiects from their obedience vnto the Lord and his leivetenant and to betray their natiue prince and countrie into the hands of aliants and strangers F What are those baits that yow meane P I meane the former popish offices and their livings wherof I spake as the offices and livings of Archbâ—s Lo. Bps. Deanes Archdeacons Cannons Preists etc. the continuance wherof and of the popish corruptions belonging to them keepeth the Pope and his sworne subiects in daily hope of replanting the throne of iniquitie againe in this land wherof I trust in the Lo. that they shalbe vtterly disappointed The traiterous Jesuits and seminary preists hoping to possesse these execrable livings and offices againe are also therby allured readily to become most vnnatural traitors against their natural Prince and countrie and the Papists at home are by this meanes kept stil in remembraÌ„ce of that Romish Egipt and in continual expectation of their long desired day wheras if these offices and livings were once removed the devised works and calings would fal with them the Pope and his trafiquers would be vtterly void of al hope to set vp the standerd of the man of sin againe in this noble kingdome here being not so much as an office or one peÌ„ny of maintenance left for any of his members the Jesuits and preists would haue no allurements to make them rebelles against their Prince and the other seduced Papists at home would easily forget their idolatrie ther being here neither office nor any other monument of that antichristian religion left to put them in mind of that Babel and so the Lord would accomplish that which thapostle saith shalbe fulfilled euen the vtter consuming of the man of sin in this land 2. Thes 2. And therfore the reteining of these offices and livings are not onely ioyned with the great dishonour of God and the offence of his saincts 〈…〉 my 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 of this noble kingdome yea and of y e prosperitie and welfare of her maiesties most royal person whom the Lo. blesse body and sowle from al dangers both at home and abroad as it is wel knowne by ouer many popish trecheries intended against her I marvaile not that the papists dislike our separation and yow may be assured that if they knew what may bring vs into daÌ„ger or discredit vs with her Ma tie with any of our superiors the honorable and worshipful magistrats vnder her highnes or any els of our countrymeÌ„ they wilbe sure to vtter the same though it were in their owne consciences neuer so vntrue For they know that of al the men vnder heaueÌ„ we are the greatest enemies vnto their religion we leaue the same neither branch nor root but would haue al the world to be as clere of that spiritual cotagion as it was the same day wherin the Lo. Jesus went vp on high and led captiuitie captiue Their reason of their separation drawen from our example is like their religion We dare not ioyne with thassemblies of the land notwithstanding that we know many of the truthes of Jes Christ to be professed therin because in the offices and many of the workes remayning in them we should haue communion with the religion of the Romane Antichrist in many of the workes and inventions therof they on the other side wil not ioyne with the publick worship of the Land because therby they should haue ouermuch communion with the doctrine of Christ and ouer litle with the poisoned inventions ordeined by Satan in the Romish Synagogue and who moved them to their treason and disobedience before we took this course Is theyr reason any thing tolerable that because we indevour to worship the Lord purely they should take example therby to giue themselues wholy to the worship of Satan F. But why refuse yow conference that yow may be reformed in those things wherin yow erre P. I refuse none I am most willing readily to yeeld vnto any as Mr. Young hath it to testify vnder my hand onely my desire and request is that I may haue some equal conditions graunted vnto me and my poore brethren in it the which yet if I can not obteine I am ready to yeeld vnto any conference though never so vnequal yea I am desirous of any conference that her maiesty and their honours may be truly informed of that which I and my brethren doe hold and of the warrant that we haue therof from the word of the Lord. Onely I craue that my iudgement my reasons my answers may be reported in my owne words and herof I beseech your worships to beare witnes withme Lastly I beseech yow to consider that it is to no purpose that her Maiesties subiectes should bestowe their time in learning in the study and meditation of the word of God in the reading of the writings and doinges of the learned men and holy martyrs that haue bene in former age 〈…〉 the writings published by her maiesties authoritie if they may not without daÌ„ger professe and hold those truthes which they learne out of them and that in such sort as they are able to convince al the world that wil stand against them by no other weapons then by the word of God Consider also I pray yow what a lamentable case it is that we may ioyne with the Romish church in the inventions therof without al danger and cannot but with extreme peril be permitted in iudgement and practise to dissent from the same wher it swarveth from the true way And as yow finde these considerations to cary some weight with them so I beseech yow be a meanes vnto her maiestie and their honors that my case may be weighed in euen ballance Imprisonments inditements yea death it self are no meet weapons to convince mens consciences Ë™ Faultes escaped Page 2. in the Preface lin 4. after but read cheefly by other writinges and bookes by themselues set out heretofore Here etc. Pag. 6. lin 33. after such bande read A. Wil yow enter band to appeare on tuesdey next at our court and so on thursday if yow be not called and be bound not to depart vntil yow be dismissed by order of our courtâ— B. No. A. Then etc.
silent A. Wel wil yow lay your hand on the Bible and take an oath B. I vse to ioyne no creatures to the name of God in an oath A Neither shal yow this is but a custome commanded by law B. The law ought not to commannd a wicked custome A Why is it not lawful to lay your hand on a book B. Yes but not in an oath A. Wil yow lay your hand in my hand and sweare B. No. A. Wil yow lay your hand on y e table and sweare B. No. A. Wil yow hold vp your hand towards heauen and sweare B. That is not amisse but I wil vse my libertie A. Why yow hold it lawful to lay your hand on the table and sweare B. Yea so it be not commanded and made of necessitie A. Why the booke is y â— like it is nothing of the oath but a thing indifferent B. If it be nothing of the othe why doe yow so peremptorilie inioyne it and if it be indifferent as yow say it is then doe I wel in not vsing it A. Nay yow doe not wel in refusing it for therin yow shew yowr self disobedient to the higher powers set over yow by God B. Euen now yow said it was a thing indifferent if it be so ther is no power can bring me in bondage to my libertie A. Where finde yow that B. In S Paul 1. Cor. The Arch B. Archd. D r. Cussins al denied it I affirmed it a litle testament in greek and latine was brought me and a Bible I looked foe the place but could not finde it great sault was in my memorie ffor I looked in the 10. chapter neither â—â—deed could I bethinke me where to finde it they so interrupted me A. Your deâ—initie is like yowr law B. The word of God is not the worse for my il memorie A. Yow speak not as yow thinck for yow are prowd B. I haue smal cause to be prowd of my memorie yow see y t default of it but the Apostle saith it Againe they al denyed it Yow then haue no cause to condemne my memorie seing yow al haue vtterly forgotten this sayeng Then repeated I the words Al thinges are lawful for me but I wil not be brought in bondage to my libertie Then they recited Rom. 14. and 1. Corint 8. al thinges are lawful for me but al thinges are not expedient I said I meant not that place A. I would like it wel if yow cited your place in Greek or Latine B. Why yow vnderstand English is not the word of God in English Then Cussin began to speak of indefinita propositio but whervpon I can not cal to remembranc â— I told him we were now about the new Testament it might be if he had asked me that question when I knew him in Cambridge I should then haue answered him he forthwith called to remembrance of what howse I was A. Were yow then of Cambridge B. Yea I knew yow there He said he was there before I was borne I said it might be Then he entred into discourse of his antiquititie Then he asked me if I had read books as Calvin Beza etc I answered that I had read more then ynough But yet I know not why I am emprisoned A. It is reported that yow come not to church are disobedeent to her maiestie and say that ther is not a true church in England what say yow haue yow at any time said thus B. These are reportes when yow produce yowr testimonie I wil answer A. But I wil better beleeue yow vpon yowr oath then them how say yow wil yow sweare B. I wil know what I sweare to before I sweare A. ffirst sweare and then if any thing be vnlawfully demaunded yow shal not answer B. I haue not learned so to sweare I wil first know and consider of the matter before I take an oath Thus many thinges being alleaged to and fro by vs the Arch B. commaunded Cussin to recorde that I refused to sweare vpon a book B. pea and set downe also that I wil not sweare thus at randon but first I wil know and consider of the thinges I sweare vnto whither they require an oath A Wel when were yow at church B. That is nothing to yow A. Yow are a scismatick a recusant a seditious person etc. with many such like B. Say what yow list of me I freelie forgiue yow A. I care not for yowr forgiuenes B. But if yow offend me yow ought to seek it while yow are in the way with me A. When were yow at church B. I haue answered that in an other place it belongeth not to yow A. Why are yow indited B. I am A. Yet belongeth it to ys I wil not onely medle with yow but arraigne yow as an heretick before me B. Yow 〈…〉 no more then God â—â—â— Erre I may but hereticke wil I never be A. Wil yow come to church hereafter B. ffuture thinges are in the Lords handes if I doe not yow haue a law A. Haue yow spoken these wordes of the church of England B. When yow produce your witnesse I wil answer A. But vpon your oath I wil beleeue yow B. But I wil not accuse my self Then began he againe to charge me with scisme sedition heresâ—e B. Yow are lawlesse I had rather yow produced yowr witnesse A. Of what occupation are yow B. A christian A. So are we al. B. I deny that A. But are yow a minister B. No. A. A scholemaister B. No. A. What then of no trade of life B. In your letter yow know my trade in the superscription A Yow are then a gentleman B. After the manner of our countrie a gentleman A. Serue yow any man B. No I am Gods freeman A. Haue yow landes B. No nor fees A. How liue yow B. By Gods goodnes and my freinds A. Haue yow a father aliue B. Yea. A. Wher dwelleth he in Norffolke B. Yea. A. Wher dwel yow in London B. No. A. Wel can yow finde sufficient suretie for your good behaviour B. Yea as sufficient as yow can take A. What yow cannot haue the Queene B. Neither can yow take her she is the iudge of her law yet for my good behauiour I suppose I could get her word A. Doth she know yow then B. I know her A. Els were it pitie of your life B. Not so A. Can yow haue any of these that came with yow to be bound for yow B. I know not I thinke I can A. What know yow them not B. I know one of them A. What is he B. A gentleman of Graies ynne A. What cal yow him B. Lacie A. But know yow what band yow should enter yow are bound hereby to frequent our churches B. I vnderstand yow of my good behauiour A. And in it is this conteyned and so yow had forseyted your band at the first B. Wel now I know yowr minde I wil enter no such bande A Then I wil send yow to prison Then
3. Neither worship yow God aright but after an jdolatrous and superstitious maÌ„ner 4. and your church is not gouerned by Christes Testament but by the Romish courtes and canons etc. L. Tr. Here is matter ynough in deed I perceiue thow takest delight to be an author of this new religion The L. Chanc. said he neuer heard such stuffe before in al his life B. As I was about to shew that neither I was an author of this religioÌ„ and that it was not new as they supposed the B. of Lo. interrupted me and asked me wherin their worship was jdolatrous The L. Treas also demaunded the same question B. Ther is nothing els in that book of your common prayer being demaunded some particulers I shewed that their saintes daies eues fastes idol feastes etc. Lond. Stay there why is it not lawful to keep a memorial of the Saintes in the church B. Not after your manner it is jdolarrie Lond. How proue now that B. By the 1. commaundement Lond. Why that is thow shalt haue no other Gods but me What of that B. The word is Thow shalt haue no other Gods before mâ— face We are therfore forbidden to giue any part of Gods worship to any creature Lond. Why neither doe we B. Yes yow celebrate a day and sanctifie an eaue and cal them by their names yow make a feast and deuise a worship vnto them L. Tr. Why may we not cal the day after their names is not that in our libertie B. No my Lord. L. Tr. How proue yow that B In the beginning of the booke it is written that God himselfe named al the dayes the first the second etc. L. Tr. Why then we may not cal them Sunday Monday etc. B. We are otherwise taught to cal them in the booke of God L. Tr. Why thow they selfe callest it the Lordes day B. And so the holy Ghost calleth it in the â— of the Reuelation Lond. We haue nothing in our saintes dayes but that which is taken forth of the Scriptures B. In that yow say true for yow finde no Saintes dayes in the Scriptures Lond. We finde their Histories and deedes in the Scripture B. But not their dayes and festiuals in the Scripture The Lo. Buckh. then said I was a proud spirit The L. Treas said I had a hotte braine and taking into his hande a book of common prayer which lay on the boord read certaine of the collectes for the Sainte◠〈…〉 Scripture and asked me what I could 〈…〉 therin B. I mislike al for we ought not so to vse Scriptures or prayers Lond. May we not make commemoration of the saintes fiues in the church B. Not after yowr manner to giue peculier dayes eues fastes worship feastes vnto them L. Tr. But what is there jdolatrous B. Al for we ought not so to vse the Scriptures Lond. What not in commemoration of the Saintes B. As I haue said not after yowr manner L. Tr. But what is euil here B. All my Lo. for by abusing the Scripture we may make it an jdol The circumstantes make euil thinges of themselues good as in the massâ—â—ook from whence this stuffe is fetched there are sundry good collectes and places of scripture which their superstitious abuse make abhominable and euil Likewise coniurers make many good prayers which the circumstances also make euil Here the Lo. Buckh. said I was out of my wittes B. No my Lo. I speak the wordes of sobernes and truth as I could make plaine if I might be suffered L. Tr. Here we pray that our liues may be such as theirs was void of couetousnes B. So ought we to doe and not to reade or haue any parte of the scripture without fruite and to follow and flee that which we finde praised and discommended in them yet ought we not to vse the scriptures in this manner to dayes and times neither to be thus restreyned or stinted in our prayers as to be tied to this forme of wordes place time manner kneele stand etc. L. Buckh. This fellow delighteth to heare himselfe speake The L. Chanc. also spake some what at that time which I cannot cal to remembrance as yet Then the Arch B. also spake many thinges against me of smal effect which I haue also forgotten onely this I remember he said I was strower of errors and that therfore he committed me B. In deed yow committed me halfe a yeare close prisoner in the Gatehowse and I neuer vntil now vnderstood the cause why neither as yet know I what errors they be shew them therfore I pray yow The L. Buckh. againe said I was a presumtuous spirit B. My Lo. al spirits must be tried and iudged by the word of God but if I erre my Lo. it is meet I should be shewed wherin L. Chanc. Ther must be streighter lawes made for such fellowes B. Would to God ther were my Lo. our iourny should be the shorter L. Tr. Yow complained to vs of iniustice wherin haue yow wrong B. My Lo. in that we are thus imprisoned without due trial L. Tr. Why yow said yow were condemned vpon the statute B Vniustly my Lo. that statute was not made for vs. L. Tr. Ther must be streighter lawes made for yow B. O my Lo. speak more comfortablie we haue sorrowes ynough L. Tr. In deed thow lookest as if thow hadst a troubled conscience B. No I praise God for it but 〈…〉 wen against her faithful subiectes The L. Tr. answered that the Queenes sword was not as yet drawen against vs. Then in a word or two I complayning of the misery and lingring close imprisonment which we suffer the L. Tr demaunded if we had had no conference The B. of Lond. answered that sundrie had bene with vs as D. Some Grauiat and others but we mocked them that came vnto vs. B. That is not true the Lord knoweth we mock no creature Neither doe I know or haue euer seene to my remembrance that Grauiat yow speak of But miserable phisitians are yow al for M r. Some he indeed was with me but neuer would enter disputation he said he came not therefore but in reasoning manner to know some what of my minde more cleerly Some was then by the Arch B. called and demaunded whither we had conference or no Some shewed how that at our last conference before S r. A. G. ther arose a question betwirt vs whither the Prince might make a positiue law de rebus meâ—ijs of thinges indifferent I denying it he asked me whither she migt make a statute for the reforming excesse of apparel I graunted that she might He then said it was a doctrine of Divils to forbid meate by a positiue law he shewed me then that the Princes law did not binde the conscience and that ther is a difference betwirt forum ciuile and forum conscientiae Some to this effect M r. Young then vncalled came and accused me of vnreuerend speeches vsed against his Lords grace at my first conference with