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A61696 An assertion for true and Christian church-policie wherein certain politike objections made against the planting of pastours and elders in every congregation are sufficiently answered : and wherein also sundry projects are set down ... Stoughton, William, 1632-1701. 1642 (1642) Wing S5760; ESTC R34624 184,166 198

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that it is an errour by their leave in the Church of Saxony not to have Arch. and Bb. in name if so be they hold it lawfull to have Archb. and Bishops in office For what should a necessary officer doe without a convenient name And touching the Church of Tigure it is not materiall what the same Church doth thinke not tolerable or doth more mislike but what she ought not to mislike or what it ought not to think tolerable And then what a poore proofe is there here made trow we for the confirmation of the corruptions in the Church of England by producing of two witnesses two errours in the Church of Tygure For not to like a Senate of Elders and more to mislike excommunication is more and more to slide out of the right way And sithence we have the whole Christian Kingdome of Scotland the most famous and renowned Church of Geneva and sundry Churches by his confession in other places to be lights unto us and to agree with us in a government not much unlike to that which we desire wee have not onely great cause to rejoyce in this our desires but also to be much comforted and encouraged by these examples by all holy meanes to labour the full accomplishment thereof For by this testimony and by these instances given and produced by himselfe the Admonitor hath quite and cleane weakened and disabled his owne generall position opinion and thoughts of the unnecessaries and inconvenientnesse of having the Apostolicall and Primitive government in the time of Peace under a Christian Magistrate For hath not the free Kingdome of Scotland the free Citie of Geneva and other Soveraigne and free Princes Potentates and powers not being under Tyrants and persecution received the same as being the best the fittest the convenientest and most necessary government yea even in the time of peace and under their Christian Magistracy for the state of their Countrye and disposition of their people And as touching rites and ceremonies we affirme not that every rite ceremony or circumstance to be used in the externall execution of Church governement is precisely set downe in the holy Scriptures but touching the substance of government thus we say and thus we hold viz. that the Officers and Governours appointed by our Saviour Christ to be over the Churches in every Countrey observing the generall rules of decency comelinesse and edification have liberty with the consent of their Christian King or other supreame Magistrate to choose what rites and ceremonies they in wisdome and godlinesse shall thinke most convenient And therefore we grant that the officers of Christ in the use and dispensation of their functions are no more exactly tyed by any direct commandement in the holy Scriptures to use at all times and in all places one only manner of rites and ceremonies than were the Priests of the Law to use all one manner of knives to kill their sacrifices or the si●gers to sing all songs after one manner of tune or upon one kind of instrument or then are Kings and Princes in all Countries commanded to use all kind of circumstances in the outward execution of civill justice in their Common-Weales As then as it was lawfull for the Priests to have knives and trumpets of diverse fashions and for the Levites to have their Musicall instruments of diverse formes Nay as sundry Justices of Peace in sundry Shires of the Kingdome are not bound to keep their quarter Sessions all in one day to begin and to breake their Sessions at one instant to stand to sit and to walke whensoever they speake to weare all one fashion hats caps cloakes or gownes and such like so likewise is it with the Bishops Pastors and Elders of the Church In the ministration of Baptisme there is no direct commandement that the vessell to hold the water for the Childes Baptisme should bee of stone of pewter of brasse or of silver whether the Minister should descend to the lower end or the child ascend to the upper end of the Church Whether the child should have a great handfull or a little sponefull of water powred upon his head In the celebration of the Lords Supper it is directly commanded that the people shall stand fit or passe whether it should be celebrated every first or second Sabboth of the moneth whether in the morning at noone or at night In the ordination of Ministers there is no just proofe to be made that any certaine number of Ministers are to lay on their hands that the day of ordination should bee alwayes one that the Minister should bee of such an age or that the prayers should be of this or that length and forme of words And therefore touching these and such like things of indifferency wee agree with the Admonitor and Reverend Bishop that one ferme of externall orders rites and ceremonies is not of necessity to bee in every Church because there is no such order witnessed by the holy Scriptures to be of necessity But touching the joynt and severall functions of Bishops Pastours and Elders that they or any of them should in any age or state of the Church of Christ bee wanting or that such offices as by warrant of the Scripture are coupled together should bee appointed to execute any functions in the Church then such persons onely as for their functions have warant from the holy Scriptures wee cannot in any sort thereunto agree And why forsooth because all both offices and Officers in the Church must only and alonely bee derived from our Saviour Christ as from the only fountaine and bestower of all officers and offices in the House of God And therefore albeit wee should grant as the Admonitor hath said that the outward order used in the Primitive Church touching rites and Ceremonies by Bishops Pastors and Elders is neither necessary nor so convenient as it may be otherwise in the time of peace and under a Christian Magistrate yet we may not hereupon imply as his negative implyeth viz. that Bishops Pastors and Elders or any of them are neither necessary nor so convenient officers or governours as other officers of mans invention might be For which our opinion by the help of God we shall assay as before hath beene mentioned in an other place to lay downe out of the Word of God some just proofes according to the Admonitors request that there ought to be in all ages and states of the Church this outward order and forme of government viz. that Bishops Pastors and Elders ought evermore to be spirituall governours and that evermore they and none other ought to use that essentiall kinde of spirituall government and none other which was practised by the Bishops Pastors and Elders in the Apostolicall and Primitive Church Alwayes leaving the outward rites and ceremonies of their spirituall kinde of governement to bee indifferent as erst hath beene said FINIS Speeches used in the Parliament by Sir Francis Knoles and written to my LORD Treasurer Sir William Cecill
that the King chiefly desiring to sustaine the people in tranquillitie and peace and to governe according to the lawes usages and franchises of his land by the assent and expresse will and accord of the Dukes Earles Barons and the Commons of his Realme and of all other whome these things touched ordained that all they c. By which desire of the King and words of the Act wee learne that our soveraigne Lord King Iames may sustaine his people The king with the assent of the nobles and commous may repeale statutes without consent of prelates 25 Ed 3. in tranquillitie and peace and governe according to the lawes usages and franchises of his kingdome though the assent and accord of Prelates bee never required to the enacting of any statute in Parliament Nay such hath beene and yet is the power of the King that with the assent and accord of the Nobles and Commons he hath authoritie to adnull and make voide even those Acts which in favour of Prelacie and assent of Prelates have beene enacted in Parliament As by an Act made in the time of King Edward the third is plainly to be seene For whereas the King by assent of the Prelates Earles c had willed and granted for him and for his heires certaine articles firmly to be kept and holden for ever namely that the Ministers of holy Church for money taken for redemption of corporall penance nor for proofe and accompt of Testaments nor for solemnitie of Mariage c. should not be impeached c. before the Kings Justices neverthelesse the same king in the same yeare with assent of the Earls Barons and other wise men of the Realme and without assent of Prelates revoked and adnulied the same articles againe Again king Richard the second hearing the complaints of his faithfull leige people and by their clamour in divers parliaments of divers abuses crept in against the solemne and devout ordinations of Churches c at the request and complaint of the commons by the advice 3 R. 2 c. 3. 7 R. 2 c. 12. and commonassent of the Lords temporall without mention of any Lords spiritual is said to have ordained That none of the kings liege people c. should take or receive within the Realm of England any procuracie c. And in the eleventh yeare of the same kings raign it is especially provided that the appeals pursuits c. made and given in the same parliament be approved affirmed and established as a thing Act. Mo. R. 2. duely made for the weale and profit of the king and of all the realm notwithstanding that the Lords spirituall and their procurators did by protestation absent them out of the Parliament at the time of the said judgement given And the like protestation being made by the Prelates and Clergie at a Parliament holden the third yeare of the same king it was replyed for the king that neither for their said protesttation The king bound by his oath to do his laws to be made though prelates protest against him or other words in that behalfe the king would not stay to grant to his Justices in that case and all other cases as was used to be done in times past and as he was bound by vertue of his oath at his coronation By all which premises it is as cleare as the Sun shining at noon day that the Lords spirituall be so farre from making any one of the three Estates as that if it please the king they may not bee so much as any member or part of any of the three Estates at all If in the time of king Henry the eight the Lords spirituall being then more in number than the Lords temporall had beene but such principall members of the high estate of Parliament as without whom neither law could The Lords spiritual no principall members of the parlia●ent otherwise than as the King pleaseth have beene made Monasterie nor Priorie might have beene dissolved what could the king have done as head and the Commons have done as feet and the Nobles have done as the heart the Liver and the Longs to the dislording and discloystering of the Abbots and Priors the Monkes and the Friers of those dayes In case the Prelates with their armes and with their shoulders with their hands and with their hornes had heaved and shoved and pushed and thrusted to the contrary But to come nearer unto our owne times and remembrances if it cannot be proved that above one Lord spirituall was present in parliament and gave any assent to the enacting of statutes made in the first yeare of the Queenes Majesties raigne deceased but that it bee a No Lords spirituall present in parliament 1 E● cleare case that the ancient jurisdiction preeminences rights and priviledges of the kings Crowne were restored that poperie and superstition was banished and the doctrine of the holy Gospell harboured only by the Queene the Lords temporall and commons what more plaine evidence or better proo●e can there be that the Lords spirituall by any necessitie be neither principalls nor accessaries neither branches nor buds nor any essentiall member of the house of Parliament And of this opinion are the soundest Historians and sincerest Divines of our age In the fifteenth yeare of King Edward the third saith Master Fox divers petitions being put up in Parliament against provisions comming Act. M● fol. 320. from Rome the Kings answer and agreement was made in form following viz. It is agreed by the Kings Earles Barons Justices and other wise men of the Realme That the petitions aforesaid bee made in sufficient forme of law Where it is to be noted saith hee that at the grant hereof the consent of the Bishops is neither named nor expressed with the Lords of Parliament and yet the Parliament standeth in his full force notwithstanding At an other Parliament Act. Mo. 525. saith he William Wicham Bishop of Winchester for a slanderous report savouring of a contumelious lye and proceeding of a subtile zeale meaning falshood was so by the Duke of Lancaster pursued that by act of Parliament he was condemned and deprived of all his temporall goods And this seemeth to have beene done saith Master Fox without assent and against the wills of the Lords spirituall for afterward at an other Parliament great suite was made by the Clergie for deliverance of the said Bishop and being asked a subsidie in the Kings behalfe with great lamentation they complained for lacke of their fellow and brother of Winchester and denyed to joyne themselves in any tractation of any such matter And in another Parliament holden at Yorke in the sixth yeare of King Edward the third all such Act. Mo. 519. lawes as then passed and were concluded by the King Barons and Commons were good notwithstanding the absence or malice of the Lords Spirituall For it is recorded saith he that onely the Archbishop of Yorke the Bishop of Lincolne and the Abbots