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A39360 Letters to Mr. Hughes of Plymouth, and Mr. Ford of Exeter, concerning the common prayer from Edm. Elis. Elys, Edmund, ca. 1634-ca. 1707.; Ford, Thomas, 1598-1674.; Hughes, Thomas, 1603-1667. 1660 (1660) Wing E680; ESTC R25045 10,521 26

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you and others in this County against the use of the Common Prayer hath begotten in the minds of severall persons such a prejudice against it as deprives them of many of those good Thoughts which they might enjoy when they hear their Ministers say that Service if they did duely and without prejudice attend to it Sir If you think that a man may not worship GOD in spirit and in truth in the use of that Form of Prayer which we call the Common-Prayer I shall earnestly entreat you to shew me what Reason you have or rather what you take to be a Reason for this your Opinion which I take to be very Erroneous and very Obstructive to the Peace of the Church If you think your Reason Convincing pray make use of it and endeavour to convince me If you refuse to write to me how justly may I Feare that you make it your Businesse to Draw the Vulgar into your Opinion rather then to Guide any one into the way of Truth If you shall object any thing against particular expressions I must tell you that those portions of the Liturgie whose expressions I undertake to maintain are Morning and evening Prayer and the Letany As for the Formes for the Buriall of the Dead Baptisme c. though I do not except against any passage in them yet I do not undertake to vindicate them because I foresee that such Controversies may easily arise from them as a Spirituall Man cannot well discuss without Loss of Time as I have said to another Learned Person Sir I beseech you do not mistake me I abhor Contention though sometimes I finde it necessary to ingage my self in Controversie I call no man upon Earth Master but in all humility I acknowledge your Superiority and profess my selfe Sir Your Servant To Mr. FORD SIR SIth you scorn to answer my Letter and Despise my Youth saying old men know young men to be Fools c. of which my Friend has inform'd me at large I would have you and all others who shall Censure me for writing to you so harshly as you have done to know this that I boldly Appeal to his Judgement who saw My Heart when I wrote that Letter and Yours when you contemn'd it I am Sir Your servant IF these LETTERS shall chance to be seen by Mr Isaac Pennington the younger * one of those whom they call Quakers whom I take to be one of the most Honest and Ingenuous of all those who any way oppose the Doctrine or Discipline of the Church of England I shall entreat him to peruse them seriously and if he find upon his spirit any thing to be objected against that Assertion which I have tendred to these men Mr. Hughes and Mr. Ford either to be Granted or Oppos'd by them I shall entreat him to discover it in Exact and Punctual Expressions For from my soule I desire to know where the strength of that Fancy lies which holds men so fast in this Errour of Disliking the Common Prayer I shall further entreat this man to peruse seriously and to lay deeply to heart in the real Fear and Dread of the Great God whom both He and I say We Know these following Lines which I sent a while since to the Quakers in my own Country who I hope some of them will not deny that I am a true Preacher of Jesus Christ and Him crucified And will I hope e're long by the Day star arising in their Hearts clearly Discover that the opinion that the Church of England is any way Antichristian must needs proceed from The Father of Lies To all Quakers or Papists or any Others who do or shall endeavour upon a pretence of doing God service to Seduce any of my Congregation from hearing the Publique Discourses I make unto them to shew them the Path of Life to shew them what tihey must do to be Sav'd THese are the Truths which I Edmund Elis a Minister of Jesus Christ Principally endeavour to make known to the sons of Men 1. That the good Things of this life Honours Riches c. unlesse we make use of them in the service of God are but vanity and vexation of Spirit And in no wise any more capable to satisfie or content an immortall Soul then Lime and Ashes and Cobwebs and such like Trash are to satisfie and keep in health the bodies of those persons who through the depravedness of their Appetite desire to feed on them 2. That nothing but the Enjoyment of God the Fountain of all Goodness can truly and really content an immortall Soul 3. That no man can enjoy God but he that loves Him with all his heart and with all his soul and for his sake his Nighbour as himself 4. That though every sincere Convert or Regenerate person loves God continually with his whole heart as to the Habit or Root of Holy Love Yet whilst he is in the Body he may sometimes fail of the Act or Fruit of it may offend God through the love of the Creature Which Truth so much opposed in these days is clear and manifest in the Holy Scriptures particularly in the Records of the heynous Sins of the Prophet David and Peter the Apostle 5. That the soules of the Faithfull are always growing in grace whilst they are in the Body and at the Instant of Death or separation from the Body our Lord Jesus shall present them to the Father without ●pot or blemish 6. That no man can so know God as to love him with all his heart and with all his soule but through the knowledge of Iesus Christ him crucified Who by those grievous sufferings which he endur'd when he was upon Earth made satisfaction to the Justice of God for the sins of all those that believe in His Name so that it is as consistent with the Justice as with the Mercy of God to forgive them their sins and make them Heirs of Eternall Life God is just and the Justifier of him that believeth in Jesus 7. That the ready way to receive CHRIST the onely LIGHT by which we may see the Way to Heaven or so to believe in Him that we may be saved by Him is to forsake all that we have that we may be his Disciples that is to say to take off our Affections from things on the Earth and to set them on things above where Jesus sitteth on the right hand of God putting our Trust Cōfidence in the Free Infinite mercy of God through CHRIST to be guided by him in all our wayes to be led by his good Spirit in all those wayes of GRACE and Holiness through which we must pass before we can attain to Glory Which I beseech the great God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ out of the infini●e Treasure of his love to Man-kinde in his Son Jesus to grant even to those that most wickedly revile me even to those which call me Deceiver though all my Preaching tend to this to enforce these most important Truths upon the Hearts of those that Heare me And whether or no any one that has the Spirit of Christ may not hear his Voice within him Ecchoing unto him that I may so speak the words I deliver in the Expression or Declaration of those Truths I appeal to the judgement of the onely wise God and the spirits of those men that are truly sanctified Glory be to GOD on high and on Earth peace Good will towards Menn FINIS * I am not against a grave modest discreet and humble use of Ministers gifts even in publick the better to fit and excite their owne and the peoples affections to the present occasions K CHARLS the First in his {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} * If what hath been written by this Pennington came from his heart I conceive it impossible but that he must needs Abhor that black Hellish act of Murthering our late KING of Glorious Memory and also that cursed Opinion that it may be Lawfull in some Cases for Subjects to take up Arms against their Prince
from you I have written what you see neither do I choose as you provoke me to be an Obiector but in generall I desire rather to be a Quaestionist and aske of you satisfaction to some Questions or cases about Prayer which may let you see some difficulties in your particular instance Take them thus Qu. 1. Whether the Scripture inspired by God be the only rule for Prayer as for Faith which must frame it Qu. 2. Whether in this Scripture doth appeare any precept imposing a set forme of prayer upon the Church or any practice in the Church of Christ answering such a precept Qu. 3. Whether in case the Law of God doth not impose any forme of prayer even the best upon the Church it be in the power of men to do it Qu. 4. Whether the Booke mentioned in your Letter be not so imposed by men without precept or example from God Sir in all these is not queried what may be the lawfulnesse or usefulnesse of set formes of Payer among some nor how far prudentiall good and lawfull forms may be commended but whether it be lawfull for men to impose any such formes upon Consciences that those and none but those must be used in the Church by any who are able to make use of the Scripture Directory in all cases of their addresse to God Unto these your clear answer is desired if you please before we come to a congresse about particulars wherein if you deale rationally and ingenuously I may afford a further Reply but otherwise my worke is too much for my time and I shall not spend hours vainly in such writing-contests I shall give you no worse Farewell than I had from you commending to you the Book of books from which your excellent Book hath all that is good in it Make the Scripture your rule of your Faith and Prayer and Obedience I am Sir Plim Aug. 23. 1660. Yours to serve you in the Lord GEO. HVGHES To Mr. HVGHES SIR I Thanke you for your Letter but must crave your pardon for not answering your Quaeries being impertinent to my Designe in writing to you which is To know whether or no you have any thing to object against this Position That a man may worship GOD in Spirit and in Truth in the Use of that form of Prayer for Morning and Evening which we call the Common Prayer simply considered without respect to it's being imposed c. I conceive you might easily have apprehended this to have been my Aime by the expressions of my other Letters As for the Forms for the Buriall of the Dead Baptisme c. Though I do not except against them yet because there are many expressions in them from which such Controversies may easily arise as a Spirituall Man cannot well discusse without losse of Time I shall not undertake to vindicate them unlesse provok't to it by any that professe that they are scandall'd at my using of them I have heard many men speak much against the use of the Letany if you have any thing to say against it I shall entreat you to insist on that in a particular manner For as yet I cannot apprehend any thing that can be objected against it but what may easily be resolv'd into a Phanaticke humour And I would faine know where the strength of that Opposition lies that may be made against that which I conceive may be of so great use to the Church of God As for that I said I might give you some occasion to conceive some spirituall Notions concerning Prayer c. I shall maintain the expression If your Opinion be That a man cannot pray in Faith using that form we speak of I doubt not but if I shall be able to discover to you the workings of mine own spirit mov'd by God in the use of that Forme I shall be able to do that I said I had no small confidence that I should Good Sir deal with me as 't is fit for one Christian to deale with another and avoid as much as you can all such expressions as may probably be made Instrumentall by the DEVIL to worke in me that sinfull Anger to which J am naturally inclin'd upon such Occasions as in Writing-Contests to use your own words men are apt to give one to the other But blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ with his Sons Blood J am able to Quench the Fire of that and all other Lusts as soon as J perceive it to be Kindled in me Jf you say in your heart at the Reading of this Let him that standeth take heed lest he fall I shall entreat you to pray for me that J may take heed As for my Adjuring of you J take the matter to be of so high Concernment that J did well in so doing You say reflecting upon some expressions of mine For saving Truth I trust I have received what the Gospell revealeth God forbid that J should be so Uncharitable as not to hope that you have received all the Principall Truths that concern Eternall Life but there may be some Subordinate Truths that I may so speak the Apprehension of which might make the Knowledge of the other more Intense and more Powerful in their Influence upon the Heart Such Truth I meant by that expression which you seeme not to apprehend Some Discoveries of such Truth viz. Particular Notices of the Meanes of Grace I have often received from the Discourses I have had with Experimentall CHRISTIANS though Persons of no Learning or Art of Expression and therefore S●r I do not thinke that you may justly say that I am Iuvenum Confidentissimus because I said in effect I had no small confidence that you might receive some New Apprehensions of sacred Truth from My Discourses whose greatest Study for some yeares hath been how I may set forth to others those Truths which I finde Written with the Finger of GOD upon the Table of mine owne Heart Sir That Confidence which I allow in My selfe I esteem so highly that I pray unto GOD continually to Encrease it I know no Vertue a Minister of CHRIST hath more frequent Occasion to make use of then true Confidence and strength of Spirit drawn forth into the Soule from an Apprehension that GOD is our Helper Sir I desire to approve my selfe to all Men and particularly to your selfe like Him whom we are Bound to love and imitate with all our heart and with all our soul Meek and Gentle and I hope you will shew your selfe no otherwise to Sir Your Servant EDM. ELIS. Mr. Hughes his Answer SIR YOur reply of the 4th instant I received the fifth and finding your resolution not to answer my Quaeries I cannot but in civility return these lines as a close to your Chalenge begun seeing the matter is not determined by the Respondent unto which Objection should be made for J know the hinge of the Controversie about set Forms imposed depends upon Scripture-Authority from which in this
LETTERS TO Mr. HVGHES of PLYMOUTH AND Mr. FORD of EXETER IN DEVON CONCERNING The Common Prayer From EDM. ELIS a Minister of the Gospel of IESVS CHRIST LONDON Printed for R. Royston at the Angell in Ivylane 1660. TO THE READER I Thought to have given thee a full account why I publish these Letters But upon second Thoughts I considered that if thou art not capable upon a view of them to discover the Reasonablenesse of their Publication thou wouldst not apprehend it though I should expresse it unto unto thee Therefore I shall onely say that I heartily desire that all those who professe themselves True Ministers of THE TRVTH would resolve as I have done not to Write or Talke any thing in Matters of Religion to particular Persons or Congregations which they are asham'd to lay open in plain and clear Expressions to the view of all Men To Mr. HVGHES SIR IF you have any thing to object against the use of the Book of Common Prayer I must confesse some expressions in the Forme for the Buriall of the Dead and for Baptisme are such that though I do not dislike them I do not undertake to vindicate them because I do not finde that God has directed my minde so much to the study of those Points But Sir if you have any thing to object against that Excellent Book excepting those expressions either as a forme of Prayer in generall or as an Inconvenient Forme I have no small confidence that I shall be able by Gods assistance to answer your Objection And to give you some occasion to conceive some Spirituall Notions concerning Prayer which possibly for want of a due reflection upon your owne Opinion concerning Set Formes c. you have not yet had I shall intreat you to write me your thoughts as briefly as you can with perspicuity and plainnesse Sir I ackuowledge your superiority in respect of Yeares and Learning but yet let me tell you I do not thinke you Infallible neither so knowing but that some of your Brethren who are much your Inferiours in Parts and Learning may have received from the Father of Lights some particular Portion of sacred Truth which as yet you have not received And therefore Sir I beseech you as you expect that dreadfull Day wherein you shall answer for all your Actions before him that shall judge the Quicke and the Dead that you would not despise my Youth and scorn to send mean Answer If you convince me I doubt not but the GOD whom I serve will give me Grace to acknowledge my selfe Oblig'd to you for it And if you do not I firmely hope there shall be such an issue of our Controversie that if you be so pious as some good Men take you to be you will not be troubled for having written to me Sir Farewel And if you love the Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity be not so Uncharitable as to thinke otherwise then that 't is the love of Him that puts me upon any business of this nature which is so great a Trouble to my Outward Man I am Sir Your Servant EDM. ELIS. Mr. Hughes his Answer SIR BEeing suddenly surprized yesterday with an unexpected Letter from an unknown person by a strange hand and having made a cursory view of it with respect to its contents I thought it best to muse a while and not hastily return but having since reviewed againe I finde these heads observable therein 1. A challenge of me to be an Opponent against an Excellent book of Common-prayer wherein you have no small Confidence that you shall be an able Respondent give some Occasion to conceive some spirituall Notions concerning Prayer which possibly for want of a due reflection upon my owne Opinion concerning Set Formes c. I have not yet had Sir I shall be heartily glad to catch at any reall Notions about the spirit of Prayer for I want much of it but I should strange to see such spirituality to arise out of the flesh and of prayer as stated by men however I should be glad to see your promise performed As for my objecting and your answering it will be requisite that the Question be rightly stated and to know what Book you mean there was that of Edw the sixth which since hath had many Editions and Additions to make it unlike it self and yet of all these it is asserted by men wiser then my selfe that none of them are established by Law which I suppose is a Basis whereon you would not a little lean It were meet that the speciall Subject were assigned or perhaps the quaere may grow higher and more generall whether any set Forms as imposed by men are warranted by God and if none your particular will fall in that but I list not to be an Opponent yet though provoked by you I look for an higher Call 2. Your censure of me as to yeares c. yet you tell me you do not thinke me infallible nor so knowing but some Inferiours in parts and Learning may receive from the Father of Lights some portion of sacred Truth which as yet I have not received All this is truly spoken I finde it as well as you say it yet for saving truth I trust I have received what the Gospel revealeth though but in my measure and I am pressing on What other sacred Truth you may intend I know not but I am not so old but shall be willing to learn any truth of God 3. Your adjuring of me that as I expect that dreadful day wherein I shall give an account of all my Actions before him that shall judge the quicke and the dead that I despise not your youth and scorn to send you an answer Sir I tremble at Gods Word and take it well to be minded of that great day yet thus to be adjured upon so slight a matter as the sending you an answer I think is more than you can exemplifie from Paul to Timothy who useth such a solemn charge upon the highest concernments I thanke God I despise no mans youth I rejoyce to see them grow in grace and for your selfe I know not how old or young you be yet without scorn I shall say in Gods presence among the many that I have known if your owne word may be taken you are Iuvenum confidentissimus The Lord humble me and you also You add fair hopes of the Issue whether Victus or Victor And again if I be so pious as some good men take me to be I will not be troubled for having written to you Sir I hope I love piety yet it quiets not my heart that good men thinke so well nor much troubleth me to be otherwise judged of the world I stand not at mans stay or judgement but I hope if I had not written to you it could not certainly argue with you an utter defect of piety in me I trust I shall lay the proof of piety upon better evidence To take away therefore that prejudice