these Objections First as to that that you do say that you are bound to Conceal your Councels and the Kings secrets that is very true as to your Councels that is your Debates you are bound to conceal them As to the Kings secrets so long as he will have them kept secret you are bound to keep them so too but it doth not deprive the King of the benefit of having it publick if he have a desire for it you don't break your Oath if the King will make it publick you don't make it publick 't is the King does it Then as to that that you do say that you apprehend the common usage of the Kingdom to be a Law that is true Mr. Papillon in some sence a constant and uninterrupted usage goes for a Law among us but I thought I had told you before that both of ancient and later times there have been Examinations of the Witnesses in Court in Cases of this nature and we are not without presidents of it every Year every Term continually from time to time Evidence is heard in Court by the Grand-Jury it is as usual a thing with us as any thing if it be desired nothing more frequent or more common I never heard it deny'd or stood upon by any Grand-Jury in my life till of late here you may be instructed with a thousand presidents for I am sure it is a common and ordinary case upon such occasions if desired to hear the Evidence in Court Look ye Gentlemen as to that care that you have of the Kings affairs the King has reason to take it well that you are so careful for them and that you are so mindful of his concerns he hath a great deal of reason to think well of you for it And Gentlemen consider this that His Majesties Council have certainly considered of this Evidence before they brought this to a publick Enquiry or else it would be a hard thing if they should come raw and not know what the Witnesses can say for though you are the Jury to hear the Witnesses yet you must consider that the Kings Council have Examined whether he hath cause to accuse these persons or not and Gentlemen they understand very well that it will be no prejudice to the King to have the Evidence heard openly in Court or else the King would ne're desire it Foreman My Lord the Gentlemen of the Jury desire that it may be Recorded that we insisted upon it as our Right but if the Court o're rule we must submit to it L. C. J. Here are enough persons to take notice of it to make Records of such things is not usual it is not our business here to record every thing that every man will desire to be Recorded We can Record nothing but what is in Order to the Proceedings but notice enough is taken of it you need not fear but that there will be Witnesses enough L. C. J. North. Gentlemen I must say something to fortifie what my Lord Chief Justice has said If any of us had been of a different opinion we would have spoken it the same thing was stood upon and discoursed on the last Sessions and then all the Judges were of this opinion and in what all the Judges agree to you should acquiesce I must tell you from my own experience where the King will he ought to have it kept secret I have not known it done publiâ—kly in the orderly course of business but I have often known wherâ—… hath been desir'd by those which Prosecute for the King that Evidence hath been given openly and I never knew it deny'd If any of my Brothers think otherwise I desire they would speak but I tell you as to my experience this is the case Mr. Sheriff P. I desire the Witnesses may be kept out of the Court and called one by one L. C. J. It is a thing certainly that the King's Council will not be afraid of doing but Sheriffs do not use to move any thing of this nature in Court and therefore 't is not your Duty Mr. Sheriff to meddle with it Sheriff P. It was my Duty last time my Lord and appointed Mr. Att. Gen. You were acquainted 't was not your Duty last time and you appear against the King Then the Indictment was Read London ss THE Jurors for our Soveraign Lord the King upon their Oaths present that Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury late of the Parish of St. Martins in the Fields in the County of Middlesex as a false Traytor against the most Illustrious and most Excellent Prince our Soveraign Lord Charles the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King his Natural Lord the fear of God in his heart not having nor weighing the Duty of his Allegiance but being moved and seduced by the Instigation of the Devil the Cordial Love and true due and natural Obedience which true and faithful Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King towards him our said Soveraign Lord the King should and of right ought to bear wholly withdrawing and with all his strength intending the Peace and common Tranquillity in this Kingdom of England to disturb and War and Rebellion against our said Soveraign Lord the King to stir up and move and the Government of our said Soveraign Lord the King within this Kingdom of England to subvert and him our said Soveraign Lord the King from the Title Honour and Regal Name of the Imperial Crown of his Kingdom of England to Depose and Deprive and Him our said Soveraign Lord the King to death and final destruction to bring and put the 18th day of March in the Three and thirtieth year of the Reign of our Soveraign Lord Charles the Second now King of England and divers other days and times as well before as afterward in the Parish of St. Mary Le-Bow in the Ward of Cheap London Trayterously compassed imagined and intended the Death and Final Destruction of our said Soveraign Lord the King and the ancient Government of his Kingdom of England to change alter and wholly to Subvert and Him our said Soveraign Lord the King from the Title Honour and Kingly Name of his Imperial Crown of this Kingdom of England to Depose and Deprive and War and Rebellion against our said Soveraign Lord the King to move and levy within this Kingdom of England and his said most wicked Treasons and Trayterous compasses imaginations and purposes aforesaid to fulfill and perfect he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury as a false Traytor with divers Armed men Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King then being maliciously trayterously and advisedly did provide and prepare to be aiding to him the said Earl of Shaftsbury to fulfill and perfect his Treasons aforesaid And his said wicked Treasons Trayterous compasses imaginations and purposes the sooner to fulfill and perfect he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury as a false Traytor with one John Booth and other Subjects of our said Lord the
King then and there Trayterously assembled met and consulted and the same wicked Treasons and Trayterous compasses imaginations and purposes aforesaid then and there to the said John Booth and other persons to the Jury unknown in the hearing of divers Liege Subjects of our Soveraign Lord the King then and there present openly publickly maliciously trayterously and advisedly did say and declare and to perswade and induce the said John Booth to be aiding and assisting in his said Treasons Compasses Imaginations and Purposes he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury as a false Traytor maliciously advisedly and trayterously the said 18th day of March in the Three and thirtieth year of the Reign of our said Soveraign Lord the King at the Parish and Ward aforesaid within the City of London aforesaid falsly advisedly subtilly maliciously and trayterously said asserted and declared That in a short time the Parliament was to sit at Oxford and that he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury had inspected the Elections and considered the inclinations and dispositions of the generality of the Members of Parliament Elected and that he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury was satisfied that the Parliament would insist upon three Matters to wit The Bill of Exclusion against the Duke of York the Abolishing the Act of Parliament of the 35th of Queen Elizabeth and the passing of a New Bill for Vniting Protestant Dissenters with divers other good and wholesome Bills To which he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury was certain that the Kings Majesty would refuse to give his Royal Assent and therefore he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury did expect that there would be a Division between the Kings Majesty and the Parliament and that many Noble Lords and Worthy Members of the lower House did concur in the same Opinion and they were resolved to insist upon the Passing of those Bills And if the Kings Majesty refused that they meaning him the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury and the said Noble Lords and Worthy Members had provided strength to compel the Kings Majesty to Grant thereunto And that for his part he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury had provided stout men to be Commanded by Captain Wilkinson meaning one Henry Wilkinson one of the Subjects of our said now Soveraign Lord the King of which he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury had agreed that the said John Booth should be one And further The Jurors aforesaid upon their Oath do say That the aforesaid Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury his said wicked Treasons and Trayterous Imaginations to fulfill perfect and bring to effect afterwards to wit the said Eighteenth day of March in the Thirty-third year of his said now Majesties Reign in the Parish and Ward aforesaid within the City of London aforesaid as a false Traytor in the presence and hearing of divers Liege People of our said Soveraign Lord the King then and there present openly and publickly falsly maliciously advisedly and traiterously said asserted published and with a loud voice declared That our said now Lord the King was a Man of no Faith and that there was no trust in him and that our said Lord the King deserved to be deposed as well as Richard the Second late King of England deserved And further The Jurors aforesaid upon their Oath do say That the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury his said wicked Treasons and traiterous Imaginations aforesaid to be fulfilled and perfected and brought to effect the said 18th day of March in the Three and thirtieth year of his said now Majesty's Reign in the Parish and Ward aforesaid in the City of London aforesaid as a false Traytor in the presence and hearing of divers Liege Subjects of our said Lord the King then and there present openly and publickly falsly maliciously advisedly and traiterously said asserted published and with a loud voice declared That he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury would never desist until he had brought this Kingdom of England into a Commonwealth without a King and that the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury and all those that him the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury would assist and he knew many that would assist him the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury would make England a Commonwealth as Holland was And that he the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury and other Traytors unknown would live as in Holland and that he our said Lord the King and all his Family should be rooted out And further The Jurors aforesaid do say That the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury his said wicked Treasons and traiterous Imaginations aforesaid to be fulfilled perfected and brought to effect afterwards the said 18th day of March in the Three and thirtieth year of his said now Majesty's Reign in the Parish and Ward aforesaid in the City of London aforesaid as a false Traytor in the presence and hearing of divers Liege Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King then and there present openly publickly falsly maliciously advisedly and traiterously said asserted published and with a loud voice declared That our now Soveraign Lord the King was a Man of an unfaithful Heart and not worthy to be trusted and not fit to Rule and Govern being false unjust and cruel to his People and if he would not be governed by his People that they meaning him the said Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury and other Traytors to the Jurors unknown our said Soveraign Lord the King would depose against his Allegiance and Duty and against the Peace of our said Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity c. and against the form of the Statute in such case made and provided c. Sir Fr. Withens Gentlemen of the Jury This is an Indictment against the Earl of Shaftsbury I shall not trouble you to open the Indictment because the Evidence will be somewhat long I shall only tell you which way we shall go L. C. J. North. I do not know whether you desire the Witnesses should be Examin'd apart do you desire that Gentlemen L. C. J. If you do desire it Gentlemen they shall for Mr. Sheriff hath nothing to do with it but if you do desire it you shall have the Witnesses call'd one at a time and all the rest shall be put out of the Court. Jury My Lord It is our desire L. C. J. We did deny it to Mr. Sheriff because we are to keep Men within their Duty Here it is not his Duty to meddle with any thing of this nature Foreman My Lord We desire we may have a List of their Names and that they may be put apart that they may not hear what one another say Sir Fr. Withens My Lord There is one part I would open L. C. J. There is no need for it at all You shall have their Names told you as they are call'd Mr. Harrison My Lord We pray we may have a List of their Names L. C. J. If you desire it you may have it but it will be no advantage for you
to express himself and say That the King was Popishly affected and did adhere to Popery and that he took the same methods that his Father before him took which brought his Father's Head to the block and we will also bring his thither and told me also That he told some Persons of Quality that this would fall out Five years before at the same time my Lord told me That there was a Collection of Money made and that the meeting was at the Sun Tavern and that there came a Tory Lord in to hinder their proceedings but sayes he we do remove to Iron-monger-Lane and sayes he you shall hear further in a fortnight I came to my Lord a fortnight afterwards and his Lordship was pleased to tell me that there was provision made for the Witnesses and that it was in the hand of one Mr. Rowse that was Servant to Sir Thomas Player there was one Mr. Ivey and I think my Brother was by too when his Lordship spake these words he said that the King was a Faithlessman that there was no Credit to be given to him and that the Dutchess of Mazarine was his Cabinet Council who was the worst of Woman-kind This is all that I have to say my Lord. Sir Francis Withins Do you remember nothing at any other time John Macnamarra No. Sir Francis Withins Did you hear any thing about deposing the King John Macnamarra Yes he did at the same time say the King deserved to be deposed as much as ever King Richard the Second did Dennis Macnamarra Mr. Sanders Tell these Gentlemen whether you have had any discourse with the Earl of Shaftsbury Dennis Macnamarra He said my Lord that the King was a man that ought not to be believed and there was no belief in him and that he ought to be deposed as well as King Richard the Second and that the Dutchess of Mazarine was one of his Cabinet Council and that he did nothing but by her Advice Sir Francis Withins Begin again L. C. J. Raise your voice a little for the Jury don't hear you Dennis Macnamarra That the King is a man that ought not to be believed that there was no belief in him and that he ought to be deposed as well as King Richard the 2d and that the Dutchess of Mazarine was his Cabinet Council and that he did nothing but by her consent L. C. J. Who was with you at that time Dennis Macnamarra There was Mr. Ivey and my Brother at his own House L. C. J. When was this Dennis Macnamarra 'T was at the latter end of March or the beginning of April Sir Francis Withins You say Mr. Ivey was by at the same time Dennis Macnamarra Yes Sir Francis Withins Call Mr. Ivey Jury What place was it in D. Macnamarra In his own house Edward Ivey sworn Mr. Ivey My Lord soon after the Parliament was dissolv'd at Oxford I was at my Lord Shaftsbury's house where he was speaking against the King and said that he was an unjust man and unfit to Reign and that he was a Papist in his heart and would introduce Popery Jury Say that again Mr. Ivey I tell you I was at my Lord Shaftsbury's house where he was then speaking against the King saying that he was altogether unjust and not fit to Reign and he wonder'd he did not take example by his Father before him and did really believe that he was a Papist in his heart and intended to introduce Popery I was sometime after with him and I told him one Haines had told me he had something to discover about the death of Sir Edmond-bury Godfrey and several other things and my Lord desired to see him and I brought Mr. Haines to his house and he desired him that what he had to say he would put in Writing and he should have a Pardon and that if the King did deny it as he dares not deny it but if he does we will rise upon him and force him Sir Francis Withins Had you any other discourse at other times Mr Ivey Yes I had other discourse but not to this purpose Sir Francis Withins Was you frequently with him Mr. Ivey I was frequently with him he desir'd at the time I was with him to bid Colledge to come to him and I went and came again to Haines with instructions how to proceed and I took his examination of him and carry'd it to my Lord and he desired it might be explain'd what he meant by the Tall Black-Man and says he if he does mean the King he must explain himself and speak of the King or the Duke of York or the rest and if he does we will take care of him as long as he lives but unless he does we will do nothing for him and I was with him with my Lord Shaftsbury and my Lord Shaftsbury did exclaim against the King Sir Francis Withins What words did he speak Mr. Ivey He said he was altogether an unjustMan and not fit to Reign and that he believed he was a Papist in his heart and design'd to Introduce Popery and therefore they design'd to depose him and set up another in his stead Sir Francis Withins Do you remember any discourse of Richard the Second at that time Mr. Ivey No Sir I do not remember any thing of it Bernard Dennis Sworn Sir Francis Withins Pray tell the Jury what discourse you had with the Earl of Shaftsbury at any time and what it was B. Dennis My Lord I came upon a design to make cleer the Plot in General as far as I have travell'd as in Ireland France Spain Maryland Virginia and England and upon that account I was brought before a Justice of the Peace in Westminster in November last this time 12 month and Examin'd before Justice Walcup a Justice of the Peace and from thence to the Committee of the House of Commons of whom Collonel Birch I believe he is here was Chair-man and gave in my Evidence and being called upon at the Tryal of the Earl of Stafford I was commended as I suppose to the Earl of Shaftsbury and upon the Account he sent me word of it by William Hetherington who was then very intimate with the Earl of Shaftsbury to my knowledge and William Hetherington came to me several times and he precisely was my maintainer at that time that is to find me what ever I wanted and provide me my Lodging and carry me to some place where accommodation might be more better for me Upon this account one time the Earl of Shaftsbury sent to me desiring that I would wait upon him at his own house I came to him and there in the Gallery of his own house walking very slowly he told me what I gave in of the Plot in general was very good and sufficient but as to the Queen and the Duke of York that I should speak more home and positive against them at least that I might be a corroboration to others in what they Swore against them
Destroy him if he come into England or the Dominions thereof and seek by force to set up his pretended Title and all such as shall Adhere unto him or raise any War Tumult or Sedition for him or by his Command as publick Enemies of our Laws Religion and Country To this end we and every one of us whose hands are here under-written do most willingly bind our selves and every one of us unto the other joyntly and severally in the Bond of one firm and loyal Society or Association and do promise and vow before God That with our joynt and particular Forces we will oppose and pursue unto Destruction all such as upon any Title whatsoever shall oppose the Just and Righteous Ends of this Association and Maintain Protect and Defend all such as shall enter into it in the just performance of the true intent and meaning of it And left this just and pious work should be any ways obstructed or hindered for want of Discipline and Conduct or any evil minded persons under pretence of raising Forces for the service of this Association should attempt or commit Disorders we will follow such Orders as we shall from time to time receive from this present Parliament whilst it shall be sitting or the Major part of the Members of both Houses subscribing this Association when it shall be Prorogued or Dissolved and obey such Officers as shall by them be set over us in the several Countreys Cities and Burroughs until the next meeting of this or another Parliament and will then shew the same Obedience and Submission unto it and those who shall be of it Neither will we for any respect of Persons or Causes or for Fear or Reward separate our selves from this Association or fail in the Prosecution thereof during our Lives upon pain of being by the rest of us prosecuted and suppressed as Perjur'd Persons and Publick Enemies to God the King and our Native Countrey To which Pains and Punishments we do voluntarily submit our selves and everyone of us without benefit of any Colour or Pretence to excuse us In Witness of all which Premisses to be inviolably kept we do to this present Writing put our Hands and Seals and shall be most ready to accept and admit any others hereafter into this Society and Association Sir Fr. Withins This Paper is very plausibly penned in the beginning and goes a great way so but in the last clause but one there they come to perfect levying of War for they do positively say they will obey such Officers as either the Parliament or the major part of them or after the Parliament is dissolved the major part of those that shall subscribe this Paper shall appoint they will obey all such Officers Foreman Pray what date is this Paper of Sir Fr. Withins It was after the Bill for the Exclusion of the Duke of York for it says that way failing they would do it by force Foreman There is no hand to it at all Sir Fr. Withins No none at all One thing I had forgot That they would joyn to destroy the Mercenary Forces about London which is down-right levying of War against the King and his Guards Mr. Sanders The design of it is pretended to oppose Popery and Arbitrary power and destroy the Papists but that doth not seem so much in its self but when you have heard the Evidence you will hear who were the Papists that were to be destroyed by this Army John Booth Jury He has stood in the face of the Court all this while L. C. J. When did Mr. Booth come down Jury He was here before we went up my Lord and hath been here ever since L. C. J. Look ye Gentlemen they tell you he was carried away and came down but now Mr. Booth No my Lord I came down but now Mr. Shepherd My Lord we desire a List of their Names that we might know who is here and who is not Mr. Godfrey This man hath been here all this while and all the others may be here for ought that I know Sir Fr. Withins In the first place give an account what discourse you have had with my Lord Shaftsbury L. C. J. Speak out that the Jury may hear you Booth I will speak as loud as I can In the month of January about the middle of January last I was introduc'd into my Lord Shaftsbury's acquaintance by one Captain Henry Wilkinson I say I was introduc'd into my Lord Shaftsbury's acquaintance by one Captain Henry Wilkinson This Captain Wilkinson is a Yorkshire Gentleman he has known me above twenty years and he and I have had familiar conversation a long while so waiting upon my Lord Shaftsbury our first business that we went about was Captain Wilkinson did pretend to receive a Commission from my Lord Shaftsbury and some others of the Lords Proprietors of the Palatinate of Carolina to be their Deputy-Governor and he told me the prospect of that Journey was like to be very hopeful and that his interest was good and that he could procure me a Commission and such a number of Acres for quality and quantity as I did desire and he said he did not design to go over immediately in his own person but he would send his eldest Son and his youngest Son and if he went he would return again as occasion should serve I consented to him in all this and we discours'd it divers times together and we went to my Lord Shaftsbury on purpose to receive Commissions in order to this purpose The first time I went there was the Earl of Craven Peter Colbert one Archdell a Quaker I thought him a Quaker because he kept his Hat on when the rest of the Lords stood bare in civility to him We discours'd the thing about Carolina After this and before Captain Wilkinson and I had several discourses about the juncture of Affairs in these times tho I knew him to be an old Royallist and one that served his Majesty and his late Father very much in the Wars yet being under great disappointments of Preferments at Court and missing the Reward he expected from the King his heart was turned another way and he had repented himself of those Services he had done for the King and was become a man of another Opinion and there was some inducements upon me that I was inclin'd to the same opinion so he express'd himself to my Lord and so from one thing to another we went on in discourse and related the several Parliaments and the Proroguing them and the Disappointments of the People and the fear of Popery and Arbitrary Power and this was not done once nor twice nor ten times for I cannot enumerate them for we kept a continual Club and convers'd together familiarly near three quarters of a year After this first acquaintance with my Lord Shaftsbury at his house I did frequently go with Captain Wilkinson and between Christmass and March four or five times and I observed this that when we
came to my Lord Shaftsbury's they were cautious in our accession In the first place it was to be known by some of the Servants who he was in company with And in the second place the names were sent up who they were that were to speak with him Sometimes we had an Alehouse at the Bell in the same Street I forget the name of the Street we staid at the Alehouse till we had a sit time Captain Wilkinson had acquaintance with his Porter and his Gentleman of his Chamber and so we often discours'd And from the concerns of Carolina we fell to matters more publick concerning the State I remember he would use to inveigh sharply against the times and look upon himself as not so valued nor so respected nor in those places and dignities as he expected he should be and seem'd to be discontented and he did fear that Popery would be introduced and Arbitrary Power and when Parliament-men were to be Elected there came every week news bringing particulars of such Boroughs and Counties as had made particular Elections for Members for Parliament whether Knights Citizens or Burgesses And he would often consider that Parliament that was to sit at Oxford what they were as to their Inclinations and Dispositions and he said they would iusist upon the same things the other Parliaments before had done Particularly he said the Parliament would never grant the King any assistance of Money nor satisfie him in those things that he desired unless he gave the people first satisfaction in those things that they insisted on before and he believed would insist upon after and particularly the Bill of Excluding the Duke of York from the Crown another was the abolishing the Statute of the 35th of Elizabeth and the third was giving his Royal Assent for the Passing a new Bill whereby all Dissenting Protestants Nonconformists or what you will term them should be freed from those Penalties and Ecclesiastick Punishments that they are subject to by the present Establisht Law and he said if these and some other wholesome Laws and Bills were past by the Royal Assent of the King he believed that when the people had received this Security and Satisfaction that they would be very willing to grant the King such accommodations of Money by way of Assessment or so as his necessary occasions should also require but without this he believed there would be a breach between the King and the Parliament and that they had order'd the Parliament should meet at Oxford and not at this Metropolis at London where they might go on without fear of being over-awed that this was an intention to awe the Parliament But he said himself and divers Noble Lords and Members of the House of Commons had considered themselves and their own safety and that they judg'd it dangerous to go to Oxford where they were sure the Guards the Retinue of the Court and the Assistance of the Scholars which usually incline to the Crown might so over-awe the Parliament that they might not so freely proceed in a way for the publick Good as they intended and therefore he and others had consider'd with themselves that it were fit for them to have Guards and send them thither and to this purpose he had establisht a matter of fifty men persons of Quality that he believed would have men along with them and he intrusted Captain Henry Wilkinson with the Command of these men and they were to come to Oxford at such a time and if there were any breach between the King and the Parliament or any Violence offer'd to any of these Members by the Guards or Retinue of the Court that then these men with others that other Lords had provided should repel his Force by greater Force and should purge the Guards of all the Papists and Tories and such as were against the Protestant Religion and the Establisht Laws of the Land and likewise these men should be ready to assist himself and those other persons in his Confederacy to purge from the King those Evil Counsellors which were about him particularly there were named the Earl of Worcester my Lord Clarendon my Lord Hallifax my Lord Feversham and Mr. Hide now Lord Viscount Hide and these persons were look'd upon to be dangerous and gave the King evil Advice and made him continue so very deaf to what the Parliament urg'd him to and therefore they said they would not only purge the Guards and repel that Force by a greater Force but also take those Lords by Violence from the King and bring the King to London to the chief Metropolitan City where those things should be establisht which they design'd for their safety in these two respects for the preserving the Protestant Religion and likewise for the keeping and defending us safe from Arbitrary Power and Government Upon this Captain Wilkinson did desire me that I would be one of those under his Command this I did consent to And he requested me further that I would provide for my self Horse and Arms and likewise Arms for my man and he would provide me a Horse for my Man I did accordingly provide Arms for my self and a good Stone-Horse for my self and Arms for my Man before the Parliament did sit at Oxford I think the 23d of March I do not punctually remember the day and when the Parliament was set we enquir'd and heard how things went on and found that it was as my Lord Shaftsbury had predicted that the Parliament did insist upon those very things that he told they would do but never believ'd or imagin'd they would be so soon dissolv'd Upon Thursday before the Parliament was dissolv'd Captain Wilkinson told me he expected that very Week to have a Summons to go up to Oxford with those men that were listed with him but then Saturdays news came of the Dissolution of the Parliament and therefore it took no further effect The whole matter the main design was this That my Lord Shaftsbury should have so many men to attend him there for the security of his person and likewise to repel the force of the Kings Guards or any other persons that followed the King and also to remove from him those five Lords and bring the King back to London to Establish those Laws that I have mention'd Sir Francis Withins Pray what time did you discover this Booth About six weeks ago Sir Francis Withins Had you any discourse with the Earl of Shaftsbury after Captain Wilkinson spoke with you or before the sitting of the Parliament Booth I said before that the first motion of these fifty men that were to be my Lord Shaftsbury's Guard came from Captain Wilkinson but after this when I went with Captain Wilkinson to my Lord Shaftsbury the same thing was discoursed there The last time I was with my Lord Shaftsbury was about a week before he went to Oxford about ten days before the Parliament set or a week and then I heard the same discourse from my
Lord Shaftsbury's own mouth Sir Fr. Withins Had you any other discourse with my Lord Shaftsbury Booth I say I made three or four Visits between Christmass and March and we had discourse every time particularly about the Kings person and if the King did refuse these motions that then these men were to be taken from him and he repell'd with a greater force and be brought to it by force Sir Fr. Withins Did you ever make any solicitation to any to make this Discovery Booth Thus far I did and I will tell you the whole matter in that point there was one Walter Banes an acquaintance of mine and I found that he had at Wilkinson's request engaged himself in some business that one Brownrig an Attorney in Yorkshire had writ to him about concerning some men that were to Swear against my Lord Shaftsbury I asked Mr. Banes what men these were he said he thought they were Irish-men I said I don't know what Conversation in that nature my Lord Shaftsbury might have with Irish-men for I know none of them but I am satisfied that he had Conversation tending to these ends that you speak of with some English-men and that I know This Mr. Banes did take particular notice of and he was very frequently upon me to tell him what the matter was and I gave him some intimation of it Truly 't was very much upon my spirit and I could not tell whether I was able to carry it through or not or had better to let it alone as it was in silence but discoursing still more with him and at the result of that discourse we had by degrees I did give him some intimation of it And after that upon second thoughts I took a resolution to discover it and when I did discover it I do here in the presence of God declare that no mortal did know any thing of what I had to say in reference to the King nor did I make any more applications in the world but took Pen Ink and Paper and writ it down and sealed it under a Cover and sent it to the Council Sir Fr. Withins Gentlemen of the Jury would you ask him any Questions Mr. Papillon The Jury told your Lordship before that after all had been examin'd they would consider what Questions L. C. J. Where would you have these Witnesses that have been examined to stand Mr. Papillon We leave it to the Sheriffs to appoint a place for them Lord Chief Justice To keep them apart it 's utterly impossible for we must have as many Rooms then as there are Witnesses Jury Let one man keep with them L. C. J. Empty that place where they were the last time and let them stand there Edward Turberville Sir Francis Withins Mr. Turberville have you had any discourse with my Lord Shaftsbury Turberville Yes several times In February last I am not positive in the time but about the beginning of the Month I waited upon my Lord Shaftsbury about some moneys I waited upon him to have his Advice how I might come by 't and to gain my Lord Shaftsbury's Letter in my behalf to the President of the Council to stand my friend and he said there was little good to be had from the King as long as his Guards were about him for were it not for his Guards we would quickly go down to Whitehal and obtain what terms we thought fit Said I my Lord I suppose his Guards can't defend him from the whole Kingdom His Lordship said That the Rabble were all of that side especially the People about Wapping and Aldersgate-street and the Rich men of the City would Vote for Elections but they could not expect they should stand by them in case there should be any Disturbance for they valued their Riches more than their Cause And at Oxford I heard my Lord say again He wonder'd the people of England should stickle so much about Religion and that if he were to choose a Religion he would have one that should comply with what was apt to carry on their Cause Mr. Sanders Had you any other discourse with him at any other time Master Turberville I told you all that is material that I can say to it John Smith Mr. Smith My Lord I only beg a word or two from your Lordship of some reflections cast upon me L. C. J. Go to your Evidence Mr. Smith My Lord this is something to my Evidence L. C. J. You may take another time for that Mr. Smith My Lord it hath been reported about in Coffee-houses and Taverns that I should Swear there was a general Design against his Majesty and that I Swore it before the King and Secretary of State and that I also Swore it at the Tryal of Mr. College and Mr. Rowse I take it upon my Oath I never Swore any such thing neither can I Swear there was a General Design by the City or the Parliament against the King Lord Chief Justice Speak what discourse you have had with my Lord Shaftsbury Mr. Smith My Lord I suppose it is past all doubt that I have been very often with my Lord Shaftsbury and I have often in his discourse observed that he spake very irreverently and slightly of the King sometimes saying he was a Weak man and sometimes saying he was an Inconstant man a Man of no firm or settled Resolution and a Man that was easily led by the Nose as his Father was before him by a Popish Queen which was the Ruine of his Father This was both in publick and in private I have also observed sometimes in his discourse something that he mention'd of the Earl of Essex and that the King should declare That the Earl of Shaftsbury was not satisfied to be an ill man himself but got over the Earl of Essex too This the Earl of Shaftsbury declar'd publickly in his own house Another story was of the Rebellion of Scotland That the King should say that the Earl of Shaftsbury was the chief Promoter of that Rebellion and when this was told my Lord Shaftsbury that he should send word back again to the King I am glad says he that the King sees not his own Danger nor what he runs himself into and pray tell him that if I were to raise a Rebellion I could raise anotherguess Rebellion than the Rebellion was in Scotland But now as to the particular points I am to charge him with I remember my Lord that my Lord Shaftsbury sent for me one time and that by one Manly sometimes they call him Major Manly sometimes Captain Manly and this man found me at Mr. Bethel's Club in Newgate-street at the Queens Arms and there he told me my Lord Shaftsbury would speak with me that night I immediately left the Club and went to my Lord Shaftsbury's and I was introduc'd into the Dining Room where there were two Gentlemen in discourse with my Lord and as soon as he saw me he askt me how I did I told him I was very
Gentlemen that came out of the Country were well provided with Horse Arms and Men to oppose him and that they might lawfully do it if the King offered any Violence to them whilst they sat and that the Nation stood by them and that they did represent the Nation and that for his part he and all his Friends would do it to the utmost of their Power and as Old as he was he would be one that would oppose it to his power My Lord said I we can expect nothing but Confusion from this Parliament in this Nature for then we shall be involved in another Civil-War nothing else can put an end to our Miseries or make this Nation a settled Nation but a Civil-War Then my Lord said I by this means wee shall make an end of Monarchy or else inslave the Nation to Popery for ever No doubt of one say's he but we are sure of one for the Nation is of our side and the City you know how they are and where ever they Strike I am sure the Nation will and this I 'le stand and dye by This is the substance of what I have to say against my Lord Shaftsbury and upon the Oath I have taken I am sure I have not added a Word One Word more I have to say 'T is reported I have been hired and Suborn'd I do admire why this City of London where there are as worthy men and as great Lovers of the King and Government as any in the World should say any such thing I was never Suborn'd by them nor never took a farthing of their money nor never took a farthing of the King in my life L. C. J. Who supposes it Mr. Smith 'T is in print my Lord 't was in the Book that came out last night it is suppos'd my Lord for it is in print L. C. J. I had reason to expect that there was no such objection Brian Haines Mr. Sanders Give your knowledge of what discourse you have heard concerning my Lord Shaftsbury Mr. Haines Sir I have heard him Villifie the King very often and he told me about the Narrative that I made about Sir Edmond-Bury Godfrey's death Mr. Ivey and I went to him one day and he spoke to me of it and I desired him not to expose my person to the King's Anger for I was sure he would never grant a pardon to any man that impeached the Earl of Danby Say's he Do not fear if he doth not grant you a pardon he makes himself the Author of the Plot and say's he the Earl of Essex my Lord Maxfield and I wee do all resolve if you put in writing we will go to the King and beg a pardon of his Majesty for you and if he doth not grant it we will raise the whole Kingdom against him for say's he he must not expect to live peaceably in his Throne if he doth not grant it For he makes himself author of the Plot. My Lord said I he hath dissolved so many Parliaments for the sake of the Earl of Danby and prorogued so many Parliaments therefore he will never grant me this Pardon Say's he doe not fear 't is the best pretence we can have in the world and if you will but put in writing and let me read it that I may give my opinion of it the work is done and if he doth not do it we are prepar'd to raise Arms against him I was with him another time after I made this Narrative and he told me the two Mr. Godfrey's were with the King at Windsor and begged a pardon of his Majesty for me but the King would not grant it but if he be an honest man let him lye at my mercy let him come in and declare what he knows Said I I would not have your Lordship expose my cause in these day's This is the best time for it in the world say's he if he doth not do it he can't expect to be long King of England Pray my Lord said I what shall I do in the mean time I will go beyond Sea said I. No sayes he don't leave the Kingdom he dares as well be hang'd as meddle with you I desir'd him a second time not to expose me to the King's fury and I prayed him to help me to a little money to go beyond Sea for I was sure I could not be safe in England Sayes he Have a care of your self but sayes he he dares as well be hang'd as meddle with you Then I was in close conference with him one day and I gave him so exact an account of all Transactions from King Charles the First 's Reign the commencement or coming to the Crown to this very day that he was mightily satisfied finding by me that I was a Traveller he was mightily pleased and free with me Pray my Lord what Model do you take or intend to do Sayes he Do you not think but there are Families in England that have as great pretences to the Crown as the King Sayes he there is the Duke of Bucks in the right of his Mother she was descended from Edward one of the Edwards and in her Right he claimes the Barony of Ross he hath as great a Right to the Crown of England as ever any Stewart of them all Jury Speak that again Mr. Haines I was in Conference with my Lord Shaftsbury one day and I gave him an exact account of all Transactions and I asked what they did intend to do with the Government if they pull'd the King down Sayes he Do you think there are no Families in England that have as much pretence to the Crown as any of the Stewarts I know none my Lord sayes he there is the Duke of Bucks that is descended of the Family of the Plantagenets he named some of the Edwards and in her right he should have the Barony of Ross and in her Right he has as good a Title to the Crown of England as ever any Stewart had John Macnamarra Sworn Sir Francis Withins Pray give an account to the Jury of what discourse you have had with my Lord Shaftsbury John Macnamarra My Lord I was with my Lord Shaftsbury a little before he went to Oxford before the Parliament sat there and my Lord told me at that time that he would take care together with those that were with him at Oxford for the Witnesses that were concerned in the Popish Plot. Mr. Harrison Speak out pray Sir John Macnamarra My Lord told me he would take care with those that were with him for the Witnesses that were concern'd in the Popish Plot after my Lord went to Oxford I writ him a Letter giving his Lordship to understand That whereas his Lordship was pleased to promise that he would take care of the Witnesses that he would be pleased to take care of me as well as the rest of the Witnesses after my Lord came home from Oxford I went to him to see what was done His Lordship was pleased
This was all at that present time that the Earl of Shaftsbury spake to me and he desired me to go home to his Lodgings With that I went home and within a Month it may be or thereabouts he sent for me again by the same William Hetherington and William Hetherington told me that the Earl of Shaftsbury would speak with me So I came and Waited upon his Lordship at his own House and say's he Mr. Dennis I understand that you are a Clergy man Yes my Lord said I. And say's he I would advise you to take a black gown and I will preferr you to a Benefice till such time as this business is over and says he at the end of this business I will not fail to preferr you to a better and in the mean time I would advise you to take a black gown and this was a little as I remember after the Parliament was Dissolv'd at Oxford and he sent a Gentleman out of his own House along with me to a Doctor of Divinity living hard by Lincolns-Inn Fields Dr. Burnet by Name as I remember and the Gentleman acquainted the Doctor what I was and about what occasion I came there so the Doctor indeed discoursed with me very familiarly and rend'red thanks to the Earl for me into his conversation rather then another's What discourse we had then was nothing to the matter it was about matters of Conscience and Religion But Mr. Colledge that was the Joyner here in Town and Executed afterwards being familiar with me brought me to one Mr. Ferguson a Minister as I suppose of the Presbyterian form for he goes in their garb as near as I can tell and Mr. Ferguson at our first meeting was in Richard's Coffee-House in an upper room one pair of stairs and in some company and Colledge going to him brought him aside and spake to him concerning me and he came to me apart and discours'd with me from whence he brought me to a Bookseller's Shop and bought for me the Articles of the Church of England and in all these discourses there was a hand as Colledge told me of the Earl of Shaftsbury who did procure him and sent to Dr. Burnet to bring me that way I do not deny neither that I had an inclination before I left Ireland and when I was in Spain and when I was in France for to become a Protestant according to the Laws and Rules of the Church of England The force of what I have to say is this The Earl of Shaftsbury one day after all these things were past and after the Parliament were dissolved at Oxford discoursing with me in his own House Major Manley being in the same Room then who lives beyond Tower-hill he asked me what was the present occasion I came to him there and it was pretty early in the Morning and the Earl had a Barber to trim him in his Room I told him my occasion was then That I was something low in Money that I did a little want money at that time and did not know to whom to speak for any thing but his Lordship and said I came to tell you so Well say'd he Mr. Dennis I have appointed Mr. Rouse John Rouse whom you know for to give you and maintain you in money go to him especially once a week and he will give you money And said he Mr. Dennis what is the Number of your name in the Country as near as you can tell how many are you My Lord said I to tell you exactly what number they be of I cannot at present but within a little time I may tell you I believe really there may be upon the matter 3 or 400 able men of my Name in the County where I was born Say's the Earl of Shaftsbury Mr. Dennis I would very willingly have you to advise those of your name and those of your Friends for to be in a readiness when ever occasion shall serve and to stand by if occasion should be for to assist the Commonwealth of England for we do really intend to have England under a Common-wealth and no Crown and say's he we intend to live as we see Holland does that is to have a Commonwealth and to have no Supream head particular man say's he or King nor owe Obedience to a Crown and say's he we will extirpate the King and all his Family as near as he can and Mr. Dennis say's he I do admire that your Nation should be such Fools as they are for it is very certain that King James Queen Elizabeth King Charles the First say's he and the King that now is does wrong you to very destruction and say's he if you had been under a Common-wealth the Common-wealth would take more pitty of your Nation and the Gentry of your Nation then any doe of them now in this time wherein the King Governs and upon this I doe count the Irish fools This is all that I can say L. C. J. The King's Council declare they will call no more Witnesses for they think they have called enough already and there are several of them that doe swear Words that are treasonable in themselves if you do desire to ask any of the Witnesses any thing you shall have them all call'd one by one Fore-man My Lord we will walk up again and Consider what Questions to ask and come again presently Mr. Papillon It seems they will call no more Witnesses then these L. C. J. Not against the Earl of Shaftsbury being you are charg'd only with that Mr. Papillon It is so my Lord but we pray we may be satisfyed upon the Statute the Indictment is grounded because we may hear it read before we go up because your Lordship speak's of two different Statutes the 25th of Edward and you mention the Statute of the 13th of this King your Lordship in your discourse to the Jury mentioned them both we pray your Lordship to acquaint us upon what Statute it is grounded whether upon both or one of them L. C. J. Look ye Gentlemen this is grounded upon the Statute of this King though there is enough to find an Indictment of Treason upon the Statute of the 25th of Edward the Third that which is Treason within the Statute of the 25th of Edward the Third is Treason within this Statute so this is the more Copious Statute for as I told you before this Statute has enlarged that of Edward the Third in a great many Particulars and therefore look ye Gentlemen always consider this when one Statute contains the Matter of another and inlarges it the Indictment is always upon the last Statute that being the more Copious Statute But you are to Consider both L. C. J. Nor. The Indictment is Contra formam Statut ' and it being Contra formam Statut ' it may be understood Statutorum or Statuti so that all Statutes that may be the Foundation of this Indictment you may go upon Jury We desire to know whether any
the Room he usually sets in on the left hand as we come out of the long Gallery I think we pass'd through a Room before it Wainscotted about as I remember and hung I have been in that Room with him four or five times I am sure Foreman After this Discourse with you how long was it before you spake of it to any body else Mr. Booth Truly I think I did not publish this Discourse that my Lord and I had from the time it was till within this Seven or Eight weeks Foreman You were never examined before then as a Witness Mr. Booth No Sir I never was nor no body will pretend it I suppose Foreman To whom Sir did you give your first Information Mr. Booth Sir I sent my first Information in writing to the Lords in the Council Foreman By whose hand Mr. Booth By the hand of Walter Banes Foreman You had several Discourses with him Had you easie Admission or was it with difficulty you came into his Company Mr. Booth I was admitted by the influence of Captain Wilkinson at first and ever after went with him and had easie admittance and familiarity with him Foreman Was he with you every time Mr. Booth No not every time he was not this time with me Foreman Did he talk to this purpose every time Mr. Booth Something to this purpose he did talk every time but not so fully for I was first acquainted with this Business of Oxford by Captain Wilkinson and I had a great desire to understand it from my Lords own mouth because I would be satisfied in my Lord's Interest as well as his Conduct Foreman Pray Sir what Education have you had Mr. Booth I have had the Education of a Gentleman an Academical Education Foreman Were you ever in Orders Mr. Booth Yes Foreman Do you own your self to be in Orders still Mr. Booth How do you mean to be in Orders I tell you I was in Orders but I am not now Benificed Foreman Do you officiate as a Minister Mr. Booth No. Foreman Were you ever an Attorney's Clerk Mr. Booth Never Foreman Or a Justice's Clerk Mr. Booth Never nor to no Mortal Foreman Were you ever Indicted for any Felony L. C. J. That is a Question not to be asked by any Jury-man of any Witness whatsoever No man is bound to discover any thing of that Nature that is Criminal concerning himself Foreman If it be pardoned my Lord he may L. C. J. Pardoned or not pardoned he is not bound to accuse himself nor to fix a Scandal on himself Mr. Booth No my Lord Nemo tenetur seipsum prodere L. C. J. Sir we must not suffer such Questions I will tell you the reason It is proper for a Prisoner that stands upon his Justification to object it but then the Prisoner must prove it It lies upon him to prove it Mr. Papilion Mr. Booth you told us of Fifty men that were Listed under Captain Wilkinson Do you know any more of them Mr. Booth I never directly conversed with any other Mr. Papilion Did you know any more of them Mr. Booth No not directly I did not but only by Captain Wilkinson's Information Mr. Papilion How many Stories was that Room where you talked with my Lord Mr. Booth One pair of Stairs as I remember Mr. Godfrey Was it the right hand as you came in Mr. Booth I think so Mr. Godfrey Was it the right hand or the left Mr. Booth I went into the long Gallery first and stayed there about a quarter or half an hour and I remember very well I looked upon some Maps that were there to divert my self a while and when I was called in went out of the Gallery on the left hand and went through another Room before I came into my Lord's Room Foreman Did you never hear my Lord speak Treason in any House but his own Mr. Booth I never had occasion to hear this Discourse from my Lord but in his own House I never waited upon him in any other House Foreman Was you never desired to be a Witness against my Lord Shaftsbury Mr. Booth Not till I intimated some thing of it Foreman Who was that too Mr. Booth That was to Mr. Banes I told you before so Foreman And what then Mr. Booth When he told me of his Business with the Yorkshire Attorney Brownrigg I did say again I did not know what my Lord had done as to any thing of Irish-men but I was sure there was something as to English-men as to that purpose Foreman Did he propose any Reward or any thing of that Nature Mr. Booth Not a Farthing for I think he had no Commission to do it Foreman Are you acquainted with one Callaghan and Downing two Irish-men Mr. Booth No. Mr. Godfrey Were you never in their Company Mr. Booth Not that I know of Mr. Godfrey Did you ever hear their Names Mr. Booth I don't know that I have Foreman Were you in their Company lately Mr. Booth Not as I know of I do not remember either their Names or their Persons nor do I know them from other men Foreman Do you know one Mr. Shelden Mr. Booth No. Foreman Do you know one Mr. Marriott Mr. Booth No Sir I have heard of one Marriott that did belong to my Lord Duke of Norfolk Foreman When were you in his Company Mr. Booth Never that I know of Foreman Has no body discoursed you from him Mr. Booth No no body Foreman Did you never hear of any Witnesses he sent to his Tenants Mr. Booth I have heard from Banes about Brownrigg about Irish Witnesses Mr. Godfrey Did you never hear of any Irish Witnesses sent down by Mr. Marriott to the Isle of Ely L. C. J. We gave you all the liberty in the World hoping you would ask pertinent Questions but these are Trifles I did not expect that any wise men would have asked these Questions Mr. Godfrey was it to the purpose whether Mr. Marriott sent any Irish Witnesses to his Tenant or no What is that to this business Foreman My Lord I have it under the hand of the Clerk of the Council Mr. Booth Pray Sir Did any inform you that I had any Correspondence with this man L. C. J. Nay Sir you must ask no Questions Mr. Godfrey Mr. Booth do you go under no other name but Booth Mr. Booth No nor never did in my life Mr. Booth My Lord I cannot go in safety here for the Tumult L. C. J. Let the Officers secure him Mr. Sheriff look to him that the man be secure and safe I will require him at your hands else Mr. Sheriff Pilkington What should I do L. C. J. Send your Officers to protect him as becomes you that he may be secured from the Rabble here Mr. Turbervile Foreman Mr. Turbervile when you had this Discourse with my Lord Shaftsbury who was present with you Mr. Turbervile One of his Servants truly I cannot tell his Name Foreman No body else Mr. Turbervile I know
Mr. Smith I believe not above Three Months ago as the Rector of Bow-Church will inform you I have it under the Church-wardens hands in other places in London Mr. Papilion Have you been desired to be a Witness or did you do it voluntarily Mr. Smith Never desired I declare it I did it voluntarily of my self Mr. Papilion When did you give in your Evidence first Mr. Smith Truly I cannot exactly tell when I gave it in I did not keep an account of it Mr. Papilion What Month Mr. Smith I cannot tell Mr. Papilion Was it before my Lord was Committed or after Mr. Smith I believe it might be a little after Whether it was before or after I cannot exactly tell Mr. Papilion To whom did you give your Information Mr. Smith My Lord they commanded the people to stone us to death L. C. J. Who did Mr. Smith Several persons and when we were at the Tavern Dr. Oates's man came out and gave the Rabble a Bottle of Wine and bid them knock us down L. C. J. Do you know what the mans name is Dr. Oates I know nothing of it my Lord. L. C. J. What is your mans name Dr. Oates I keep half a dozen men my Lord. L. C. J. I hope you keep no men to affront the King's Witnesses Dr. Oates No my Lord it is a mistake I know nothing of it we went thither to refresh our selves M. Papilion Mr. Smith who did you give your Information to Mr. Smith What Information Mr. Papilion The first Information Mr. Smith My Lord am I to answer to these questions L. C. J. Ay Answer them tell them Mr. Smith My Lord the Information I gave in to Secretary Jenkins but I gave notice long before of what I intended to do to other persons Mr. Papilion When did you hear these words speak to the time exactly Mr. Smith Which words do you ask Mr. Papilion Those you mentioned even now Mr. Smith Sir if you please I know you take all in short hand if you ask me what words I will tell you for if I do not express my self in the same words as before you will take hold of me L. J. C. I will tell you this this may be an ill question for he told you he had discoursed my Lord Shaftsbury at a great many times and that at sometimes he said these words at other times other words and for you to catch him upon a question it doth not shew a fair inclination Mr. Papilion My Lord under your Lordships favour we only desire to discover the truth we are not for catches L. C. J. Ask him then which of the words you would have him declare the time of and he will tell you Mr. Papilion Let him speak his own words it was about the time when Hetherington went thither Mr. Smith Truly I will answer that as punctually as I can the month or day I cannot well tell but the person that came for me was major Manly and he came to Bethels Club what time that was I cannot say but if you please to inform your selves of those Gentlemen that I name I believe they will tell you Mr. Bethel was there present and knew very well I went to my Lord Shaftsbury that night and returned to the Club again Mr. Godfrey Was it in the Evening or the morning Mr Smith Mr. Godfrey Clubs are usually at night I suppose you know that was Mr. Papilion Where did you see my Lord Shaftsbury Mr. Smith It was in his Dining Room Mr. Papilion Did you hear these words in any other place or at any other time or any Treasonable words against the King L. C. J. Look you Gentlemen he told you of several other words at several other times Mr. Papilion But he said all at his house my Lord. L. C. J. Ay but at several times Mr. Smith I know Mr. Attorny what the Gentlemen would be at very well L. C. J. Answer them whether you did hear him speak any words that you conceive Treasonable at any other time Mr. Smith I did not indeed Mr. Papilion In another place Mr. Smith I do say I did not Mr. Papilion Did you petition to the Common Councel M. Smith No Sir I never did Mr. Papilion Are you an English-man or an Irish man Mr. Smith That 's no matter no more than if I were a French-man or a Dutch-man L. C. J. Give them an account whether you are an Englishman or an Irish-man Mr. Smith My Lord I beg your Lordships pardon for that if I were an Irishman whether thereupon my Evidence would be prejudiced L. C. J. Look you Mr. Smith I do hope the Gentlemen of the Jury have more discretion among them all than to think that an Irish-man is not a good witness I hope they are not such persons Mr. Smith My Lord if you please whilst I was in the City amongst them I never petitioned to the City I never had a farthing from them nor ever spake to any for it I never had any occasion for it but if I had it is probable I have enough in England and other places without being beholden to your Common Council L. C. J. Will you ask him any more questions Jury No no. Mr. Papilion Is Mr. Smith gone I would ask him one word we would fain know what allowance you have or what you receive if you have any allowance from any body Mr. Smith From whom Mr. Papilion Nay I know not from whom I ask whether you have any from any body L. C. J. Look ye Gentlemen is that a question that is pertinent I wonder you will go to such questions we allowed you to ask questions your selves because we look upon you as men of reason Mr. Papilion My Lord I do not know but it may be a proper question to ask him if he have any allowance from any man upon this account L. C. J. Upon what account Mr. Papilion Upon this account if he says he has none 't is an answer L. C. J. Do you intend your question whether he is bribed to give Evidence if you mean so speak plain Mr. Papilion We ask if he have any allowance Mr. Smith You don't ask me how the 6 or 700 l. was made up L. C. J. You that are upon your Oaths should have a care what you do Bryan Haynes Mr. Papilion Mr. Haynes when did you give in your Information upon this matter Mr. Haynes Against the Earl of Shaftsbury Sir Mr. Papilion Ay. Mr. Haynes The day that I was taken by the Messenger Mr. Papilion That was before my Lord was committed was it not Mr. Haynes Yes Sir it was before my Lord was committed Mr. Papilion Did you ever make any other Information to a Justice of the Peace Mr. Haynes Not of my Lord of Shaftsbury Mr. Papilion Nor touching this matter Mr. Haynes No not any Information upon Oath I may have discoursed with a Justice of the peace Mr. Papilion Did not you give in an Information of a