then Per Legem Terrae is all one with Per Legem Angliae or secundum Legem et Consuetudinem Angliae and what ever is done secundum Legem Angliae is done Per Legem Terrae And in his 1 Inst l. 1. c. 1. Sect. 3. He tells us what Lex Angliae is he saith there are divers Laws within the Realme of England and reckons them up Lex et Consuetudo Parliamenti is in the front of them He names many more the Civil Law by which the Court of Constable and Marshall and the Court of Admiralty and Ecclesiastical Courts do act the Law of War for the Court Martiall to act by the Law of Merchants the law of Stanneries Particular Customes in several places of the Kingdome Statute Lawes established by Authority of Parliament Whoever and whatever is tryed by any of these Laws be it for life Lands or goods it is still according to Magna Charta and though not Per Judicium Parium yet Per Legem Terrae The Law and Custome of Parliament is one of these and the Lords now acting agreeably to that act agreably to Magna Charta and that they have acted so is I think sufficiently proved all ready and will be further hereafter when we shew you Presidents for it from the beginning of Parliaments So for the other Statutes of the 25 of E. 3. c. 4. and the 42. c. 3. They do not at all concerne the House of Peers and were made only to prevent Vexation by Petitions and false accusations before the King and his Privy Counsel as appeares by the Preambles of those Statutes Though the Gentlemen of the House of Commons who managed the Conference were pleased to give them an other Interpretation and to say that the Petitions and suggestions to the King or his Counsel which are condemned by those Statutes are to be understood of those brought to the King and House of Lords But can it be rationally believed That the House of Peers of those times should themselves make so many Lawes pass so many Acts of Parliament five in the space of 17 years the 25 of E. 3. c. 4. the 28 c. 3. the 37 c. 18. the 38 c. 9. the 42 c. 3. all of them prohibiting that any man should be apprehended imprisoned or disinherited upon an accusation or suggestion to the King or his Counsel and enjoyning all Proceedings to be by Original Writ or by Inditement or by Presentment of good and lawfull People of the Neighbourhood And they know themselves to be intended by those Acts and yet still should act contrary to them judge and determine so many Causes both Criminal and Civil as they did from time to time Nay can it be believed That the House of Commons in those daies would bring up Impeachments against men to have them tryed at the Lords Barr if they did then conceive that those Acts of Parliament did forbid the Lords to meddle For though the Commons House are sometimes called the Grand Inquest of the Kingdome to present the Grievances thereof it is presumed they will not say that their Presentment is the Presentment intended by those Statutes For the Presentment mentioned there is the very description and true Character of your Country Juries The words of the Statute are The Presentment of good and lawful people of the same neighbourhood where such Deeds be done And can any man think that this is to be understood of the House of Commons No certainly What then is it that makes the Lords Proceedings upon the Impeachments of the Commons to be Legal and not contrary to those Acts of Parliament Since there is neither Writ nor Inditement nor Presentment and yet men are brought to tryal condemned and executed by their Judgements but only this that it is the Common Law of the Land being the Ancient unquestioned and undoubted Law and Usage of Parliaments And thereby is there a clear demonstration of the true meaning of those Statutes that it was the Regulation of the Kings Privy Counsel they aimed at and not of the House of Lords that Counsel of which Sir John Lee was one in that 42 of E. 3. n. 23. who was tryed and censured by that very Parliament in which that Act was made One of the Articles against him was That being of the Kings Counsel and Steward of his House be caused sundry men to be attached and and brought before him and made them answer singly to him as if it had been to the body of the Counsel He was fined for it and committed to the Tower The Lords John Nevil was likewise of this Counsel for misbehaving himself in it Judgment of Imprisonment and loss of Lands goods and Office was given upon him 50 E. 3 n. 34. And in the same Parliament n. 18. The Lord Latimer was accused for divers miscarriages being a Counsellor and for them he was by the Bishops and Lords committed to the keeping of the Marshall of England and adjudged to make Fine and Ransome at the Kings pleasure It is true he was enlarged presently by the Earl Marshall one Arch-Bishop three Bishops the Prior of St. John three Earls fifteen Barons and thirteen Knights being his Manucaptors but the Commons desired further that he might be no longer of the Kings Counsel which was granted And this was not to put him out of the Lords House for he continued still a Member there and had his Writ of Summons to come to the next Parliament in the 51 th year of that King There is nothing more clear then that those Statutes are all to be understood to mean the Privy Counsel and so did the two Houses of Parliament interpret them 3 Car. in their Petition of Right where the expression is That against the tenor of those Statutes divers were detained by his Majesties special command certified by the Lords of the Privy Counsel and one may bodly affirme that never any Statute or Act of Parliament did term the House of Lords the Kings Counsel So that Article of Magna Charta urged likewise at the Conference Communia Placita non sequantur nostram Curiam concernes not them neither It was to fix the Court of Common Pleas which as all other Courts was before that Ambulatory and followed the King where ever he was if he was in the Kingdome and the Writs were made returnable Coram nobis ubicunque fuerimus which was a great Grievance to the subject and cause of many discontinuances in sutes The following words clear it Sed teneantur in aliquo certo loco Now the place of the meeting of the Parliament was alwaies certainly known being expressed in the Writ of Summons which shewes it was not meant for them And whereas it was said That in Cases of Freehold there is no Proceeding without an Original Writ Scarse any that walkes Westminster-Hall but knows the contrary and the Course of Proceeding to be so fart otherwise as that not one Tryal for Land of forty comes on upon
Johns of Hierusalem sues him in Chancery for the Mannors of Temple-hurst and Temple-newsom which Ed. 3. had granted to John Darcy his Father and produces a Deed shewing that the Priors Predecessor had passed the Fee of them to Ed. 2. The Lords order that Deed to be sent to the Treasurer and Barons of the Exchequer to examine the Kings Title and in the mean time stop Proceedings in Chancery This is more then taking Cognisance of a Matter Originally for they take it out of one Court where it depended and was undetermined and send it to be examined in an other Court which shews the Ascendant they had upon all other Courts 4. R. 2. n. 17. Sir Ralph de Ferriers had been seised by the Duke of Lancaster upon the Marches of Scotland upon suspicion of Treason for holding Intelligence with the French the Kings Enemies upon some Letters of his to several French Lords found and taken up by a Begger He was brought into Parliament before the Lords and put to his Answer He first desired Counsel then offered the Combate against any that would acouse him both were denyed him Then he applyed himself to his Answer And after several dayes hearing the Lords still remanding him to Prison he so well defended himself That the Lords suspected the Letters to be forged and therefore committed the Begger and bayled Sir Ralph delivering him to his Manucaptors 5. R. 2. n. 45. The Chancellor and University of Cambridg Petition against the Major Bayliff and Commonalty of the Town for breaking up their Treasury burning their Charter and by force compelling them to make Releases of some Actions they had brought against the Town and enter into Bonds to them for great Summs The Lords direct a Writ to issue out to the Maior and Bayliffs to appear in Person and the Commonalty by Atturney They appear The Chancellor exhibits Articles against them They being asked why their Liberties should not be seised plead to the Jurisdiction that the Court ought not to have cognisance of them They are told Judgment should be given if they would not answer Then they answer and the business is heard The Townsmen are ordered to deliver up those Deeds forced from the University which are presently cancelled The Town Liberties are seised into the Kings hands and part of them granted to the University Some are granted back to the Town for which they were to pay an increase of Rent Note here is a Plea to the Jurisdiction and that Plea Overruled 8. R. 2. n. 12. The Earl of Oxford complains of Walter Sibell of London for a Slander in having to the Duke of Lancaster and other Noble-men accused him of Maintenance The Lords hear the business Commit Sibell to Prison and give 500 Marks dammages to the Earl 9. R. 2. n. 13. The Case of the Duke of Lancaster complaining That Sir John Stanley had entred upon the Mannor of Latham which held of him and had not sued out his Livery in his Court of Chancery The Lords order him to sue out his Livery But this hath been already mentioned 15. R. 2. n. 16. The Prior of Holland in Lancashire complains of a Riot committed by Henry Trebble John Greenbow and others and of an Entry made by them into the Parsonage of Whit wick in Leicestershire John Ellingham the Serjeant at Arms is sent for them who brings them into the Parliament The Lords commit them to the Fleet. N. 17. The Abbot of St. Oseches complaineth of John Rokell for Embracery This Case hath been already cited N. 18. Sir William Bryan had procured a Bull directed to the two Archbishops to excommunicate some that had broken up his House and carried away Writings This was read in Parliament and adjudged to be prejudicial to the King and to be in Derogation of the Laws for which he is committed to the Tower N. 20. Thomas Harding accuseth Sir John Sutton and Sir Richard Sutton and layeth to their charge that by their Conspiracy he had been kept Prisoner in the Fleet Upon hearing of both Parties for that the two Knights were known to be men of good Fame The Lords adjudge him to the Fleet. N. 21. John Shad well complains against the Archbishop of Canterbury for excommunicating him and his Neighbors wrongfully for a Temporal Cause appertaining to the Crown and to the Laws of the Land The Lords hear the business find the Suggestions untrue and commit him to the Fleet. 1 H. 4. n. 93. Sir William Richill one of the Justices of the Common-Pleas who by express Order of Ri. 2. went to Calais and took the Examination and Confession of the Duke of Gloucester after murdered by Hall was brought a Prisoner into the Lords House the King present and by Sir Walter Clopton Chief Justice apposed And answered so fully shewing his sincere dealing that the Lords one by one declared him innocent And Sir Walter Clopton pronounced him such 4 H. 4. n. 21. The Case of Pontingdon and Sir Philip Courtney where the Lords direct the Tryal appointing what the Issue shall be and what kind of Jury shall be impannelled to prevent Sir Philip 's practices in the Country It hath been cited before at large 1. E. 4. m. 6. n. 16. The Tenants of the Mannor of East-Maine belonging to the Bishop of Winchester the King being in his Progress in Hampshire in the Summer-time complained to him of their Bishop for raising new Customs among them and not suffering them to enjoy their Old ones The King bids them come to Parliament in Winter and they should be relieved They come and the King recommends their business to the Lords They commit it to certain Justices to examine Upon their Report and upon mature Deliberation it was adjudged That the Tenants were in fault That they complained without cause and they were ordered to continue their said Customs and Services Here observe there was the recommendation of the King in the Case just as now in Skinners and this difference that a question of Custom betwixt Lord and Tenants was properly determinable by the Common Law and a Jury of the Visenage and this of a Trespass in the Indies to be punished in Parliament or no where which justifies the Proceedings there 43. Eliz. the 18th of December A Complaint was made to the Lords by the Company of Painters against the Company of Plaisterers for wrong done them in using some part of their Trade Their Lordships referred it to the Lord Maior and Recorder of London to be heard examined adjudged and ordered by them Which was all one as if they had done it themselves For it was done by their Authority and by their Order Qui facit per alium facit perse 18. Jac. The Lords took notice of the Proceeding of the House of Commons in the Case of one Flood whom they had convented before them for insolent and scandalous words spoken by him against the Prince and Princess Palatine examined Witnesses and given Judgment in the Cause
Pasch le Conseil qil moy averont donnez et fray envers vous ceque fere deveray Sir I am your liege man for the Kingdome of Scotland and do pray that as to what you have proposed unto me which concernes the People of my Kingdome as well as my self you will have patience till I can speak with them that I be not surprised for want of Counsel seeing those who are here with me will not nor dare not give me their advice without the rest of the Kingdome And when I shall have advised with them I shall give you for Answer at your first Parliament after Easter that which they shall counsel me and shall do unto you that which I ought to do This request of his did King Edward grant the Record saith Et Dominus Rex habito super hoc Consilio ad Rogatum praedictum praedicti Regis Scotiae et etiam ad Instantiam Procerum et Magnatum de Consilio suo et Gratia sua speciali et similiter de Consensu praedicti Magdulphi concessit ipsi Regi Scotiae supplicationem suam et diem ei dedit ad Parliamentum suum post Pascha viz. in Crastino Sanctae Trinitatis c in omnibus in eodem statu quo nunc Idem dies datus est praefato Magdulpho Et per ipsum dominum Regem dictum est praefato Regi Scotiae et injunctum quod habeat ad praefatum terminum praedicta Brevia quae cognovit se recepisse ut supra dictum est He must not forget to bring the Writs with him 1 R. 2. n. 29. A Scire facias is awarded against the Earl of March to appear before the Lords at the next Parliament and to abide further Order And 2 R. 2. n. 33. the Sheriff of Shropshire makes his return that the same Earl was not found in his Bayliwick it seemes he was dead for there was then an other Scire facias ordered to warne his Son who was then Earl to be and Answer at the next Parliament after 13 R. 2. n. 12. Upon a complaint of the Bishop and Dean and Chapter of Lincolne against the Mayor and Townesmen for some wrongs done them in Execution of their Charter by order of Parliament a Writ was directed to the Mayor and Bayliffs of the Town to appear at a certain day before the Lords with Authority from their commonalty for abiding their Lordships determination they appear but not coming with full Power they are adjudged in Contempt By the same Parliament such a Writ is directed likewise to the Mayor and Bayliffs of Cambridge upon 〈◊〉 Petition and Complaint from the Vice-Chancellor and Scholars and they run the like fortune to be adjudged in Contempt for the like cause So then there are Writs made returnable in Parliament And many other examples may be given and some more will be given in this Discourse and Presidents cited upon other occasions where Writs have been Issued so returnable Which shall be observed as we go along And these few shall in this place suffice to disprove that Assertion Nor indeed was there any thing said on that side that did not receive a full and satisfactory Answer For what was said of an Act of Parliament to give Skinner relief for his Island doth in truth deserve no Answer for it were ridiculous to think an Act of Parliament or any thing else but an Army could put him into Possession of his Island again And it would be altogether useless unto him could he so obtaine it his Plantation there being utterly destroyed and all his goods spoiled and lost both there and at Jamby so as it would be impossible for him to carry on his trade to any advantage Therefore it is Reparation and Satisfaction for his Damage which he must have And that is not the work of an Act of Parliament but of a Court of Judicature That advice then is not to be followed and so we will leave it It now remaines but to set forth the Presidents which the Lords did on their part alledge with some few more Antient ones which shall be added for the Vindicating and Asserting of their Right unto this never before controverted point of their Judicature in all Cases of what nature soever when some thing extraordinary in those Cases did induce them to exercise it Of which they were the sole Judges that being a Trust lodged in them by the very Frame and constitution of the Government In the black Book in the Tower which is Printed by the Name of Placita Parliamentaria 30 E 1. F. 231. is the Case of Sir VVilliam Paynell and Margaret his Wife suing for Dower upon the Lands of John Cameys who had been Margarets former Husband and whom she had left he yet living And they now desiring tobe tryed by their Country upon the point of Adultery and the Lords not allowing of it This hath been at large expressed before therefore I only mention it now In the same Book p. 266.33 Ed. 1. The Case of Nicholas Segrave who was tryed in Parliament for leaving the Kings Army then in Scotland and goeing over into France to fight with one John de Crumbwell upon a falling out between them they being together in the Kings Army This was a case not tryable in VVestminster-Hall nor punishable in any ordinary Court of Justice by the Common Law of England yet the House of Lords could try him and adjudge him worthy of death And one thing more is observable in that Record That a Writ is Issued to the Sheriff of the County to take foure Knights with him and in their presence to Summon Segrave Quod esset Coram Domino Rege in proximo Parliamento suo apud VVestm ad audiendum voluntatem ipsius Regis et ad faciendum et recipiendum ulterius quod Curia Domini Regis consideraret in Praemissis So here is a Writ returnable in Parliament and the Sheriff did accordingly make his returne that he had Summoned and charged him Quod esset coram Domino Rege in isto Parliamento nunc juxta formam et Tenorem Mandati praedicti c. It was therefore a gross mistake to say That never any Writ was made returnable in Parliament as it was likewise one to say That the House of Peers could give no remedy where there was not remedy at Law this President proving the Contrary to both 21. Ed. 1. p. 135 136 c. The Arch-bishop of York is questioned in Parliament for excommunicating the Bishop of Duresme The ground of the Excommunication was For that the Bishop of Duresme had imprisoned two Persons employed by the Arch Bishop to cite the Bishop to appear before him The Arch Bishop appeals Et dicit quod de sententia a Canone lata per ipsum declarata in Curia Domini Regis non debet respondere The House of Lords goes on The other side alleadging That the Bishop in his Temporal Capacity as Count Palatin had committed those men
by sickness or other occasion As 50. E. 3. n. 35. it is said The King ordains That from thenceforth no Woman should for Maintenance pursue Matters in the Kings Courts upon pain c. And then was the King sick at Eltham and could not come to Parliament as appears by n. 42. and it was only the House of Peers that made that Order So in Judgments though in Ancient Times they were mostly entred as given by the King yet it was the Lords House which was Curia Regis that gave them For we must know the KING hath a double Capacity of sitting in the House of Peers a Legislative Capacity when he hath in himself a Negative Voice to what even both Houses have concluded and done which signifies nothing without his Assent and his single Dissent makes it all null and void This is in passing Acts of Parliament and making of Laws The other is a Judicial Capacity when he will please to assist and be present at the ordinary Transactions of the House as heretofore was usual which alters not the Constitution of it as it is a Court gives it no more Power nor Jurisdiction then it had before he being then but in a manner as Chief Judge and not doing any thing singly but according to the Plurality of Opinions As when the Kings would in Person sit in the Kings Bench which they have in former times done where still all is said to be done Coram Rege though now he never come there and in Our Memory King James hath set in the Star Chamber I think no body will say the Star-Chamber then or Kings Bench before did or could vary from their ordinary Forms and Rules of Proceeding No more can the House of Peers alter their Proceedings or assume greater Authority by reason of the Royal Presence to take Cognisance of other Causes or do any thing which by the Custome and Usage of the House and the Law of Parliament it could not else have done But their Jurisdiction and their way of exercising that Jurisdiction is still one and the same And therefore 26. H. 6. n. 52. When the King had given a Judgment of himself without the advice of the Lords in the Case of William de la Pool Duke of Suffolk who stood impeached for Ireason banishing him the Realm for five years The Lords entred their Protestation against it as not done by their Assent and so no Act of the House And 5. H. 4. n. II. The Earl of Northumberland coming into the Parliament before the King and Lords and by Petition acknowledging to have done contrary to his Allegiance in giving of Liveries and gathering of Power for which he prayed pardon in regard he yeelded himself and came in to the King at York upon his Letters And the King delivering this Petition to the Justices to be considered The Lords made their Protestation That the Judgment appertained only to them And therefore as Peers of Parliament to whom such Judgement belonged in weighing the Statutes concerning Treasons and concerning Liveries they adjudged the Fact of the said Earl to be no Treason nor Fellony but only a Trespass finable to the King Whereupon the King received him into Grace and pardoned him his Fine All Power of Judicature in Parliament is then questionless in the House of Lords where the King alwayes is Personally or Virtually and the Judgment proceeds from them by the Authority and in the Name of the King For the Power of Judicature in Parliament is lodged in them together with the King as is declared 1. H. 4. n. 80. where it is said That the Commons were only Petitioners and that all Judgments appertain to the King and the Lords unless it were in Statutes Grants Subsidies and such like This hath ever been the Practice and Custom and Law of Parliament since there have been Parliaments and when this shall cease to be the Ancient way of Free Parliaments will cease likewise 1. R. 2. n. 30. Sir John de Cobham sheweth That by the delivery of a Ring of Gold for seisin to Edward the third he had setled the Reversion of several Mannors there named in the Crown and now prayes it may so remain according to his Intention divers Lords are examined the Judges Opinions are asked who declare it to be a good Livery and Seisin And so it is setled N. 32. William Fitzhugh a Gold-finer and Citizen of London exhibits a Bill of Complaint in the Name of the Cōmonalty of that Mystery against John Chichester and John Bolsham of the same Mystery for divers Oppressions done by them The Lords send for them examine them they deny those Oppressions And Fitzhugh refusing then to avow his Bill the Lords commit him to the Tower N. 35. Rober Hawley and John Shakell are by the Lords sent to the Tower for refusing to bring forth a Spanish Prisoner taken in Battel whom they had in their keeping and others laid claim to N. 41. Alice Perrers 〈◊〉 Pierce who bad been much in favour with Ed. 3. is questioned in the Lords House Sir Richard Scroope Lord Steward of the Houshold managing the Tryal for that contrary to an Order made by the King and Lords 50. Ed. 3. n. 35. That no Woman and she by Name should pursue any Matters by way of Maintenance upon Pain of perpetual Banishment and loss of the whole Estate She notwithstanding had perswaded King Edward to countermand Sir Nicholas Dagworth from going into Ireland when he had been ordained by the Council to go thither for urgent business which would have been profitable for the King and the Realm And an other Charge against her was for perswading the King to pardon Richard Lyons who had been Farmer of the Customs and for abuses and extortions had been censured in Parliament to forfeit his Estate and be committed to Prison she got all to be remitted and his Estate to be restored unto him even that part of it which the King had given to two of his own Sons for their lives The hearing of this Cause took up several dayes Many that had been Counsellors and Officers to the late King were examined as Witnesses At last she is found guilty and Judgment of Banishment and loss of Estate given upon her 3. R. 2. n. 24. The Case of the Earl of Pembrock and William le Zouch complaining of Thomas Roos for sueing them concerning Lands in Yorkshire and endeavouring to get a Tryall in the Countrey the Record is Desitant D'estre a Lissue du pays trop suspecieusement his desiring it being suspicious so they pray Que Ils partels Malueis Compassements Procurements en pais ne soient desheritez That they may not loose their Inheritance by such wicked practises and procurements The Lords upon this retain the Cause appoint some Persons to examine and report it But this President hath been cited before at large so I do but touch it here N. 22. Sir Philip Darcy complains That the Prior of St.
his Father deceased And that a Statute of 1600 l entred into by the said Thomas Bagshaw to John Gell Esq shall be discharged and made void And that Thomas Bagshaw shall make a Release to the said Edward of all Debts and Demands The sixteenth of June 41. The Lord Audley Complains by Petition That the Lord Cottington kept from him the Mannor of Fonthill and prayed Relief therein Upon hearing Counsel on both sides the Lords dismissed the Petition The twenty third of June 41. The Committee for Petitions Reports That Mistris Walter had preferred a Petition setting forth That William Walter her Husband will not permit her to cohabit and dwell with him nor allow to her and three Children any thing for their support The Lords Order her to repair to her Husband and offer to live with him and if he shall refuse to admit her that then he shall allow her 60 l per annum for her Maintenance The 21 th of July 41. A Petition was exhibited before the Lords by sundry Officers and Clerks of the Court of Common Pleas shewing That the disposing of the Offices of Protonotaries Phitizers Exigenters and other Offices of the said Court had time out of mind belonged to the Chief Justice of that Court for the time being but several Grants and Patents had been obtained from his Majesty for the disposing of the said Offices and therefore they prayed That all those Grants and Letters Patents might be recalled The Lords heard Counsel upon it and after mature deliberation declared That the said Offices do of Right belong to the disposition of the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas And the Grants formerly made by Letters Patents of the said Offices to be Illegal and void And Ordered the said Patents to be brought into the House There is likewise in the Journal Book of that Parliament mention made of a Petition of one Thomas Smithick preferred the tenth of June 1641. Complaining of wrongs sustained from the East India Company and likewise of a Petition from the East India Company full of Respect and Submission to the House of Lords and praying a longer day then it seems was appointed for hearing the Merits of the Cause which the Lords granted and Ordered all such Books Certificates and Writings as were in the Custody of the Company concerning that business should be produced and Smithick to peruse and take Copies of them What was more done upon this Petition of Smithicks appears not by the Journal Book probable they compounded the business among themselves But however it is observable the different Spirits of the East India Company then and of this now The Modesty of that and the Carriage of this so far differing In those times no question was made of the Power of the Lords in point of their Judicature nor no Complaint against their practice of it Yet we see the frequency of it in Causes of all Natures Criminal Civil Mixt between King and Subject between Subject and Subject no Protection no Priviledge did exempt any body from their Jurisdiction The Lords at the Conference as they said to the Gentlemen of the House of Commons were the more Copious in the enumeration of these later Presidents especially those of 1640 and 1641. not that they thought themselves at all to stand in need of them the antient ones before produced shewing the usage all along from the very first and best times which in their Lordships Opinions were of much more weight sufficiently convincing but the House of Commons having a little before at an other Conference delivered it for a Maxim That the later Presidents were best and having accordingly insisted upon one single President of the same Parlialiament of 1640. to Oblidge the House of Lords to commit a person upon a general Impeachment of Treason without special Matter shewn and opposing that one President to what their Lordships alleadged to the contrary and made appear to have been the usage of all former times no Record being of any Man ever sent to Prison by the House of Peers without a particular Crime expressed in the Impeachment of some Act done by him before the Earl of Strafford which was the President stood upon This made the Lords heap up so many Examples of the Proceedings of their House in that Parliament of 1640. in the point of Judicature to use it as Argumentum ad heminem and what the House of Commons could no wayes except against themselves having declared it to be of greatest Authority Until Henry the Eights time the very House of Commons was to be beholding to the House of Lords for their Administration of Justice even concerning their Members as the only Judges and Conservators of their Liberties and Priviledges Themselves could not before that have punished any one that had never so much offended them So far were they from exercising a Power of Commitment or of inflicting any punishment for Crimes at large and against the Laws of the Land where neither the Offence nor the Offender had particular relation to their House as in these later times hath been often practised by them But as I say the first time that ever they punished any and it was for breach of Priviledge was in the Parliament 34 H. 8. in the Case of George Ferrers Burgess for Plimouth who was arrested and put in the Counter The House informed of it sent their Serjeant to demand their Member not so much as to summon Sheriff or Bayliff that made the Arrest or Party at whose suit it was made and less to bring any of them as Delinquents to the Bar as now a dayes nor could they obtain that But their Serjeant coming to the Counter found resistance the top of his Mace was broken off his Man knocked down and he glad to get off without the Prisoner So back he comes to the House yet sitting and makes his Complaint They presently all rise with their Speaker come up to the House of Lords and the Speaker makes the Complaint to Sir Thomas Audley Lord Chancellor sitting on the Wooll-sack The Lords judge the Contempt to be very great and refer the punishment of it to the Order of the House of Commons Then indeed they return to their House and send for the Sheriff of London the Clerks of the Counter all the Officers there that had a part in the fray with their Serjeant one White at whose Sute Ferrers was Arrested and the Bayliffs that did Arrest him all to appear personally before them at eight of the Clock next Morning and when they came they sent some of them to the Tower some to Newgate where they continued till they were delivered at the suite of the Lord Major We do not find that before this the House of Commons committed any body no not for the Breach of their Priviledges nor were themselves so much as Judges of the Elections of their Members but were fain to come up to the Lords and pray their aid to
procured the Arrest brought to the Bar and upon their humble sumbmission pardoned with a check from the Speaker and paying their Fees Three Presidents only there are which Sir Edward Cooke produces of their exercising a Judicature two of them upon their own Members for Miscarriages the third upon one no Member for striking a Member this primo Mariae the other 8. Eliz. 23. But they did not constantly nor frequently do that neither that is not judge and punish either their own Members for any Offence whether against the House or out of the House or any other for arresting or assaulting them till after Queen Elizabeths time For in the 27th of her Reign as appears by the Journal of that Parliament A Member of the House having been served with a Sub-poena the House sent to the Lord Keeper and signified unto him That it was against their Priviledge The Lord Keeper returned answer That he should not submit to any Opinion of the House concerning their Priviledges except those Priviledges were allowed in Chancery and would not recal the Sub-poena So in Matters of Elections they were glad to pray the aid of the House of Peers upon any Miscarriage or Neglect of the Sheriffs as in the 18th H. 6. n. 18. The Sheriff of Cambridgshire Gilbert Hore had made no return of the Knights for the County upon Complaint made to the House of Peers it was Ordered That he should go to a New Election and make Proclamation That no Person should come armed thereunto Any of the Members to be dispensed of their Attendance in the House come to the King and Lords for it So did Sir Philip Courtney Knight for Devonshire 16. R. 2. n. 6. who being accused of some hainous Matter comes to the King in Parliament for the King did then ordinarily sit in Person in the House of Peers and prayes to be discharged his Attendance until he was purged which was granted This was upon the Wednesday and the Munday after at the Request of the Commons he is restored to his place in their House and to his good Name for that he had submitted himself to reasonable Arbitrement saith the Record All this is said with great Respect to the House of Commons and not any wayes to impugn or question their exercise of Jurisdiction upon their Members and for the defence of their Priviledges but only to shew how things were in the beginning and how extensive the Power of the House of Peers hath ever been in their Judicature reaching all Crimes all Persons all Places none exempt And how necessary it is it should be so That there be not a failer of Justice in the Land that no Offender may escape unpunished and no oppressed Person go unrelieved All other Courts having their Bounds and Limits which make them too narrow for some Cases And this trust being in the House of Peers there is remedy in those extraordinary Cases But before I wind up all to a Conclusion a word must be said to answer some Objections which I have met with in a Book intituled the Commoners Liberty printed in the year 1648. The first Objection is an Order of the House of Peers with the Kings Assent to it 4. E. 3. n. 6. by which the King and Lords declare an Agreement made betwixt them That the Lords shall not be held nor charged to give Judgment on others but their Peers And that the Judgements then given shall not be drawn into Consequence to oblige the Peers in time to come to judge other then their Peers against the Law of the Land This the Author of the Book will have to be an Act of Parliament because it is said to be done in full Parliament To which I answer The Record it self shews it to be otherwise The Title is Concordia ne trabatur in Consequentiam That is an Agreement an Accord between Parties that what is done shall not be drawn into Consequence no Law to impose upon them and to oblige them And the expression That it was done in full Parliament and so the Commons present signifies nothing as to inforce what he would infer upon it For admit that yet it makes it not a Law the Commons might be Witnesses to what was done but were no Parties Which must have been to make it a Law They must either have Petitioned for it before or have given their Assent and Approbation after it must either have begun or ended in their House before it had gone to the King for his Royal Assent and then it had been binding and the Law of the Land but there was no such thing here The Occasion of it was this The King had prevailed with the Lords against their Wills and Protestations to the contrary as appears by the Record of that Parliament n. 2. even in a Manner forced them to condemn the Earl of March Sir Simon de Beresford John Matrevers Bogo de Bayons John Devaral Thomas de Gourney and William of Ogle for the murther of Edward the Second and the death of the Earl of Kent all of them Commoners except the Earl of March and none of them called to answer yet some of them in hold and others not Those that were in hold were presently executed and great rewards promised to who should bring in the rest quick or dead The Lords afterwards troubled in Conscience at what they had done and moved with just indignation against themselves made first a Protestation That they would not for the future be Tenus Chargez a rendre Jugement sur autre que sur leurs Pairs be tyed and charged to judge any but their Peers and this they get the King to consent unto and happily for the more Solemnity of the business would have the King declare so much before the Commons And their Indignation together with their Precaution not to be again necessitated to do the like might carry them further to say They would not be obliged to judge any but Peers against the Law of the Land though it will very well bear an other Construction that it was their being in that Manner forced and pressed to do what otherwise they would not have done which they declared to be against the Law of the Land because it is against the Freedom of Parliaments and not their Judging of Commoners to be against the Law of the Land But admit it those Lords then thought it to be so and that they ought not to judge any but their Peers Doth that bind up the House of Peers that they may never be of another mind They are still Masters of their own Orders and alter them and change them as they think good And I look upon this Order as no other nor of no more force then that made 8. E. 1. which is in the Appendix to the Placita Parliamentaria p. 442. concerning Petitions which I have mentioned before and which succeeding Parliaments would not observe And that they did not observe this neither
of these several Offenders But admit they had particularly impeached every one of them which is more then to desire such a Delinquent may be brought to his Tryal and that the Lords would do Justice on him as they find Cause and much more then onely to design the Crime and leave it to the Lords to find out the Persons For in an Impeachment they examine the matter and first find themselves the Party to be guilty and then they follow it against him and prove him so before the Lords Doth this at all give them any part in the Judgment or must it not necessarily be understood that the Judicature is naturally and constantly lodged with the Lords and the House of Commons part then is onely to bring the Offender before the Lords to be tryed This very Record of the Proceedings in the Lords House against Gomeniz and Weston shews it so to be and proves the Judicature of the House of Peers as strongly as can be It runs thus Item par la ou supplié est par les Communes que tous ceux qunt rendus perdus Chatels ou Villes par dela par uray defaut des Capitaines puissent estre a Response a Cest Parlement selon leur desert fortement punis par agard des Seigneurs Baronage eschievant le malueis ensample qils ont donnez as autres qui sont Gardeins de villes Chatels Commandé est a Sire Alein de Buxhall Conestable del Tour de Londres qe y face venir deuant les Seigneurs en Parlement a Westminster le Vendredy 27 Jour de Novembre lán susdit Jehan sire de Gomeniz William de Weston c. Item Whereas it is prayed by the Commons that all those who have delivered up and lost Castles and Towns on the other side of the Sea by their own default being Captains of them may be put to their answer at this Parliament and according to their desert be severely punished by the award of the Lords and Baronage for the eschewing of the evil example which they have given to other Guardians of Towns and Castles Command is given to Sir Allen de Buxhall Constable of the Tower of London to bring before the Lords in Parliament at Westminster upon Friday the 27th of November of the aforesaid year John Lord of Gomeniz and William of Weston c. Here the Commons desire that all such may be severely punished by the award of the Lords and Baronage So it is their Award and their Judgment must punish and this by the Commons confession And you may observe further that the Commons do not make any mention of any particular Person but the Lords they command Sir Allein de Buxhall to bring Gomeniz and Weston before them such a day But it is easie to trace the Author of the Pamphlet where he was led out of the way and that was by an other Pamphlet of the Priviledges of the Baronage which goes under Mr. Seldens Name but hath as many mistakes in it as leaves and there indeed it is said p. 15. That at the supplication of the Commons that all those who have rendred Castles be put to their Answer and that Allen Buxhall Constable of the Tower do bring before the Lords such a day Gomeniz and Weston to answer the Articles which there shall be preferred for the said Cause they were so brought c. But the Record it self you see is otherwise which that Pamphleter it seems never read And for what he further would infer to make that and all other Judgements at the prosecution of the Commons admit they had been so which these were not Acts of Parliament is a Fancy so ridiculous as it is not worth the answering which makes no difference betwixt an Act of Attainder that passeth both Houses and afterwards hath the Kings Assent as all other Laws have which is an effect of the Legislative Power in which either House hath an equal Vote and a proceeding before the Lords against a Criminous Person in a Judicial way wherein the Commons have nothing to do as to the judging of him But one thing more in that Pamphlet I cannot let pass which is in p. 12. The words are these viz. For the Kings giving Judgment in Parliament with the Lords Assent I do confess Judgements there ought to be properly and punctually entred as given Par nostre Seigneur le Roy que est Souverain Juge en tous Cas par les Seigneurs Spirituels Temporels ouel Assent des Communes de la Terre ou a leur Petition Nenny par les Seigneurs Temporels Seulement That is As given by our Lord the King who is Sovereign Judge in all Causes and by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal with the assent of the Commons of the Land or upon their Petition and not by the Lords Temporal alone And for this he quotes in the Margent Rot. Part. apud Leicester II. 16. which he delivers so Magisterially as any man would swear he had good Authority for what he said and that his old French was some old Oracle of Parliament And I must confess upon the first reading of this I was at a stand finding here such a positive Precept contrary to what I had still believed both in the Affirmative it must be by the Kings and Lords with the Assent of the Commons and Negative not by the Lords alone But when I came to examine this Assertion by the Record I found there was a foul mistake whether purposely or ignorantly I judge not For what was delivered by Counsel to bolster up his Clients pretentious is there produced as the Rule of the Court And an Error assigned to reverse a former Judgment which is but the Allegation of a Lawyer that draws up his Clients Plea is made an Argument to controul and condemn a constant usage of the House of Peers It was in the Case of the Earl of Salisbury Who brought a Writ of Error in the Parliament 2. H. 5. to reverse the Judgment given 2. H. 4. n. 30. by the Lords Temporal alone with the Kings Assent by which Judgment the Earls of Kent Huntington and Salisbury and some others who had been some slain some taken in actual Rebellion by other the Kings Subjects and by them put to death without form of Law were declared attainted of Treason and their Estates forfeited For the reversal whereof Thomas the Son Earl of Salisbury amongst the Errors assigns this for one as a principal one that it was given by the Lords Temporal alone with the King whereas it should have been by the King Lords Spiritual and Temporal with the Assent of the Commons or at their Petition And what follows upon this Indeed if the Judgment had been reversed though perhaps upon some other Error for several others were assigned there might have been some colour for the Gentlemans Assertion and the Inference he would make upon it But so far from it that the Judgment
and Company and of Maurice Tompson and Sir Andrew Riccard seeing the Petitioners hopeful designe in his Plantation and way of trade with his Ship did seize for and on the behalf of the said Governour and Company his said Ship goods houses Istands and 1521 Dollars of the Petitioners in the hands of Thomas Leaver the Companies Chief Agent at Jamby which hath damaged him 17172 l Sterling besides the disappointment of his trade disseizin of his said Island loss of above six years time with attendance and vast charges here in endeavors for a just satisfaction c. being much more valuable then all the other damages And the said Agents used many violences upon his person in the said Indies notwithstanding that the Petitioner proffered Bail and good Security there to answer all their pretences which inhumane and unreasonable dealing forced the Petitioner through infinite hazards and expence to come most over Land for England to seek redress That in the year 1661 and continually since he hath humbly besought his Majesty for Justice against the said Governour and Company and persons aforesaid and though his Majesty hath been graciously pleased to convene the said Company and Persons and to hear the said Matters and also to referre it divers times to several Lords of his Majesties most Honourable Privy Councel to hear them and mediate an End yet they could not be reduced to Reason nor Justice albeit the Petitioners Wrongs and Damages were made to appear as well by their own acknowledgement as other evidence produced before the Lords Referrees but endeavoured by the strength of their Joynt-Purse to bear down the Petitioners Relief though never so just by wearying him from further Prosecution That the Petitioners whole Case not being remediable by the Courts below he is constrained humbly to address himself to your Lordships his Majesties great Councel and Supreme Judicature whom the Petitioner most humbly petitioned the last Sessions and your Lordships were pleased to order their Attendance but by their Dilatory Pleas and several non-attendances upon slight excuses at the day appointed by your Lordships they frustrated the Petitioner of obtaining your Lordships Justice that Session Wherefore he most humbly prayes That your Lordships will be pleased to cause the said Governour and Company and persons aforesaid to answer the premisses before your Lordships by a short day and that he may receive from your Lordships such Relief as shall be consistent with Justice and Equity And he shall pray c. Signed Thomas Skinner The Lords upon this order the Company to put in their Answer in Writing upon Wednesday the 6 th of November They bring in a Plea as before First by way of Protestation That all the Injuries supposed to be commited by them and their Factors are untrue Then plead as formerly That the Petition is in the Nature of an Original Complaint not brought by way of appeal c. as in their Plea of the last Session but add And therefore these Respondents do humbly demand the Judgement of this honourable Court whither it will please to take any other or further Cognizance of the same the rather because the matters of Complaint in the Petition are such for which remedy is ordinarily given in the Courts of Westminster-Hall wherein these Respondents have Right to be tried and ought not to be brought hither per saltum nor drawn ad aliud examen and so pray to be dismissed The Lords having received this Plea to shew the clearness of their Intentions and their tenderness of doing any thing which might but carry a Semblance That they desired to engross to themselves the judging of particular Causes when determinable elsewhere and nothing extraordinary in the Case to induce their Lordships to take Cognizance of the Matter which apparently was in this Case of Skinners as hath been said before would have the Opinion of all the Judges before they proceeded any further And therefore made an Order Monday the 2 d. of December That it be referred to all the Judges to consider of Skinners Petition and to Report to the House upon the Wednesday following whether the Petitioner were relievable upon the matters therein mentioned in Law or Equity and if so in what manner upon the several parts of the Complaints of the said Petition The day appointed the Judges came and the Lord Chief Justice of the Kings Bench reported That all the Judges had considered of the Matter referred to them and having met and considered thereof were of Opinion That the Matters touching the taking away of the Petitioners Ship and Goods and assaulting of his Person notwithstanding the same were done beyond the Seas might be determined in his Majesties Ordinary Courts at Westminster And as to the dispossessing him of his House and Island That be was not relievable in any ordinary Court of Law Here then clearly by the Judges own Confession part of the Case was not within the Power of Westminster Hall and under favour of better Judgements I think it will be but a venial Sin if notwithstanding this Declaration of our Sages in the Law the Doubt do still remain with us if some of the other points also as that of the taking of his Ship a Robbery committed super altum mare be punishable by the Law of Westminster Hall Nay may not one be bold to affirm That it is not And may it not be doubted further if any part of Skinners Case be tryable there and if their Fiction in Law will reach any part of it being all for Injuries and Violence against his Person and Estate in India We know that some Judges and Lawyers make it to extend to Contracts and Bonds made beyond the Sea which they ground upon a Case in the Year Book of 48 E. 3. fol. 2. where Sir Ralph Pole brings his Action against Sir Richard Tochester upon an Obligation bearing date at Harfleet in Kent Lou de rei veritate I l fust fait en Normandie the Book saith and his Action was held good And Brook who makes it to be at Roan not Harfleet gives the reason in his Abridgement Faits 98. le lieu n'est traversable the place is not traversable which is to be understood when it is expressed in the Bond for a man cannot traverse the place against his own Act. But the Law was ever understood to be otherwise till then that the Judges would ampliare Jurisdictionem And to shew what the Law was before E. 3. it was adjudged Michaelmas 2 E. 2. That no Action would lie for a Bond made at Barwick which did not then belong to England ou cest Court nau ' conisans where the Court hath not cognisance saith Fitzherbert Obligation 15. And so Perkins Faites 121. But both before and since the Courts of Law were so far from punishing Injuries and Trespasses done beyond Sea That even Treason was not tryable till the Statute of 26 H. 8. cap. 13. which saith That if any of the Kings
House your Petitioners do therefore most humbly pray That your Honours will be pleased to take the Premisses into your grave Considerations and to interpose with their Lordships for your Petitioners Relief therein in such way and manner as to your great Wisdoms shall seem meet And your Petitioner as in duty bound shall pray c. Signed by the Order and in the Name of the said Governour and Company Robert Blackborne Secr. Copies of this flew about were in every mans Pocket and in every mans mouth That the Lords were even forced to take notice of it yet scarce could believe the House of Commons would receive such a Petition against them so scandalous and so false nor did they in the whole debate so much as mention the House of Commons but looked upon it as a thing done without doors thrown abroad only to blast and asperse the House of Lords and to bring them into the ill opinion and dis-esteem of the people which after a serious consideration and debate their Lordships voted To be a scandalous Libel against the House of Peers And certainly so it was both in Matter and Manner and had the Matter been true yet the Manner was scandalous For though all had been true which was suggested if the House of Lords had committed an Error had done some thing grievous to the Petitioners yet was it most unfit for private men to censure their Proceedings declare them to be unusual and extraordinary to be against the Laws and Statutes of the Nation and Costome of Parliament grievous to the Petitioners at present and of ill consequence hereafter to all the Commons of England Can the tongue of man utter more reproachful and stabbing words against any man or society of men If this were true do they deserve to live who are guilty of such things to continue so much as Members of any State or Common-wealth much less to have Power and Jurisdiction in it Certainly to revile in this manner and throw dirt upon the Highest Judicatory of the Kingdome was a most transcendent Presumption and of a most dangerous Consequence to the whole Nation even to those Commons of England whom these Petitioners pretend for so much making themselves as it were their Patrons and Protectors Tribunes of the people and withall endeavouring to bring an Odium upon the whole Peerage What is this but sowing sedition between the two Houses of Parliament and between the Peers and the Commons of England And what can it tend to but to the very dissolution of the Frame of Government The Scripture saith Thou shalt not speak evil of the Rulers of thy People and Elihu in Job moves this question Is it fit to say to a King Thou art wicked and to Princes Ye are ungodly Yet these Rabshakehs dare heap up Reproaches against the Lords of Parliament and bring railing Accusations against the Highest Order of Magistracy under the King in the Kingdom And how little Cause was given them for this the preceding Narrative of the proceedings of the Lords is I think an evident demonstration Their Lordships had proceeded with all the tenderness imaginable nothing of heat nothing of Precipitation had appeared in the whole Transaction They were not come to a full Conclusion and Determination of the business which these Merchants had no reason to suspect that it would be severe upon them And they might at least have staid till it had come what ever it had been and not have prejudged a Court before it had declared it self what Judgment it would give All it had then done was but what the East-India Company it self had by their own offer of Reparation for the wrong done acknowledged to be Just For the Lords had only declared That Skinner was fit to be relieved But what relief how much and in what sort the Quid and the Quomodo they had not determined that was under the Consideration of a Committee They themselves in their Answer to the Lords Referrees appointed by His Majesty in Counsel had offered to pay unto Skinner for Nutmegs White Pepper and some other things which had been unjustly taken from him by their Factors and had been brought to their account 3160 Dollars And 1521 Dollars more they offered for so many taken from him in Specie And by this they confess they had done him wrong and were willing to give him some Reparation So without condemning themselves they can not say the Lords had as yet done amiss and notwithstanding all this moderation and Circumspection that opprobrious railing Petition was preferred against them and which besides was full of untruths For the main matter in it and which in truth had carried a shew of Injustice had it been true is absolutely false And that is that the Lords denied them a Commission or time to send for Witnesses inhabiting upon the place without whose testimony it was impossible for them to make their defence First it is not true that the Lords denied them a Commission or time to send for Witnesses for they never insisted upon it which must have brought on a Resolution of the house and have been entred in the Clerks Book which was not Some such thing was once said by some of the Councel at Barr but themselves went off it knowing it would have grosly manifested their intent to delay longer a Poor man who had already spent seven years in the prosecution of that suit And as untrue is it that they could not else make their defence for multitudes of Witnesses were produced by them and all fully heard with Patience and enough acknowledged even by their own Witnesses and more by their own offer formerly mentioned of giving Skinner so many thousand Dollars Reparation which they had then declared which was only That Skinner should be relieved A second untruth is That they say all the matters complained of were clearly determinable in the ordinary Courts of Justice excepting what concernes the Iland whereas it appears there was likewise a dwelling house at Jamby and a Ware-house by the River-side of which they dispossessed him which were not so determinable even by the report of the Judges in their Opinion but in truth one may say no part of the Complaint was so determinable they say untruely then in saying there was only the Iland that he could not be relieved in and as untruely do they vouch the Opinion of the Judges for it who expresly mention the House as well as the Iland A third untruth is to say the Iland was parcell of the Dominions of a Foreigne Prince and the Right to it only determinable by the Laws of that Prince Whereas that Prince had made an absolute bargain and sale and a Totall Alienation of it from his Dominion and so had put it out of the Protection of his Laws A fourth and which they had inserted to be a Baite to draw on the House of Commons to espouse their Quarrel is that they suggest the complaint to be concerning Commoners
onely Whereas the Lord Berckley of Berckley a Member of the House of Peers is likewise of that Company which intitles yet more particularly that House to the Cognizance of the whole business upon point of Priviledge one of their Members being a party All these untruths are in matter of Fact Then for their Inference upon them the Judgement they give against the House of Lords their censure of their Proceedings to be against the Laws of the Land and the Custome of Parliament to be unusual and extraordinary to be a President of ill consequence to all the Commons of England now and hereafter this I hope no man will say to have truth in it but to be a false Imputation and a Slander or as the Lords themselves tern it a Scandalous Libell against the House of Lords And as untrue it is what they say in the close of their Petition and withall most Injurious to the House of Peers viz. That the Petitioners had no way of relief in this Case otherwise then by making their humble Addresses to the House of Commons Whereas ever since Parliaments have been in England the constant practice hath been and multitudes of Presidents there are of it of Appealing to the next Parliament from any Judgment given by a former Parliament which was grievous and unjust And never in this world before was there any Appeal to the House of Commons from a Judgment of the House of Peers much less to take a business out of their hands or give a stop to their Proceedings before they were come to a conclusion Then which nothing can be a greater Violation of the Rights and Priviledges of either House Nor would the House of Lords ever have endured that any should have used the House of Commons so in any application unto their Lordships Yet upon the examination it appeared that this Petition had been really presented to the House of Commons and was there received The Lords then fell upon the consideration of the main business in question between Skinner and the East-India Company and making Reflexion upon what had been alleged on both sides and the proofs gave this Judgment That the Governour and Company should pay unto Thomas Skinner for his losses and damages sustained the Sum of 5000 pounds one thousand within two daies after the serving of this Judgment two thousand pounds in three moneths after and two thousand pounds more in three months after that And they referred to the Committee for Priviledges to examine who was the publisher and disperser of that Scandalous Paper or Petition which they had voted a Scandalous Libell and to make Report thereof to the House In the disquisition of this business which held many daies at the Committee and in the House and where the Lords found much shuffling in the Persons they examined who were Servants and Officers to the Company It appeared at last that the Petition had really been presented to the House of Commons and well received by that House that it had been prepared by a Committee of the Company that Sir Samuel Barnardiston Deputy Governour of the Company Sir Andrew Riccard Mr Rowland Winn and Mr. Christopher Boone were of that Committee and Actors in it but especially Sir Samuel Barnardiston the most Active man who gave no Satisfaction to their Lordships in his Answers which the others did and by their submission obtained favour but the Lords adjudged him guilty of contriving that Scandalous Paper and fined him 300 l. to the King and to remain a Prisoner in the Custody of the Black-Rod till he paid his Fine And now the House of Commons ownes the Cause and seems not only to Justify these Actings of the East-India Company but to lay blame upon the House of Lords and passes certain votes to that purpose which they brought up to the Lords and delivered at a Conference And began with telling the Lords That they had examined the East-India Companies Petition and found the Allegations in it to be true That such Proceedings had been in the House of Lords And that the Lords had since adjudged them to pay 5000 l to Skinner and that the House of Commons thought these Proceedings to be of so very high Concernment to the Right of all His Majesties Subjects that they had passed those Votes upon it The Votes were these 1. That the House of Lords taking Cognizance of and their Proceedings upon the matter set forth and contained in the Petition of Thomas Skinner Merchant against the Governour and Company of Merchants of London trading to the East-Indies concerning the taking away of the Petitioners ship and goods and assaulting his Person and their Lordships over-ruling the Plea of the said Governour and Company the said cause coming before that House Originally only upon the complaint of the said Skinner and being a common Plea is not agreeable to the Laws of this Land and tends to deprive the Subject of his Right Ease and Benefit due to him by the said Laws 2. That the Lords taking Cognizano of the Right and Title of the Island in the Petition mentioned and giving damages thereupon against the said Governour and Company is not Warr anted by the said Laws of this Land The Lords were much surprised with these Votes which gave them cause to make a serious Reflection upon what had passed in the business of Skinner and to take a due examination of all Circumstances The way that it came unto them at first upon the Kings Recommendation Their own Right to take Cognizance of Judge and determine and give redress in causes of that nature Then the merits of this particular cause A poor man oppressed by great Ones very unable to contest with them at Law and so very unlikely there to receive relief and have any reparation from them admitting it had been in the power of the Law to have helped him which it was not and The manner of their Proceeding in the hearing examining and determining of it in which they had used all the moderation Imaginable going by steps and dgrees taking first the Opinion of the Judges to know if the man were relievable else where who said he was but in part and not for all relievable in Westminster-Hall which made them undertake it Then giving way to and bearing with many delayes of the East-India Company suffering the business upon several Pretences and excuses of theirs to be put off many daies when their Lordships were prepared to hear it and had laid aside other business for it by which means a whole Session was lost to the poor man And when at the next meeting of the Parliament it was heard in which a great deal of time and very many daies were spent yet not presently to come to a resolution but appoint a day for the debate of it and when that day came not to give a full Judgment but only pass a previous Vote That some Relief was fit to be given and take longer time to consider
Temporalibus none such is found in the Register or Fitzherberts Natura Brevium And the reason they said was the same for Personal Actions as those that concern Free-hold that Magna Charta and several Statutes made in Ed. 3. time provide for our Tryall by our Peers Some other Presidents they mentioned out of the Roll of Petitions answered in the Parliament of 14. E 2. as that of William le Rous F. 408. Complaining of the Kings Bayliffs who had twice dispossessed him of a house in Westminster and praying remedy the answer was Habeat Breve novae disseisinae in suo casu Then that of the Bishop of Winton Elect in the same page Complaining that the Kings Officers had cut down the woods of the Bishoprick during the vacancy and praying remedy The Answer is Habeat Breve de Transgess in Canc. Next of Joane the widdow of John Fouks p. 409. by Petition Complaining of a wast committed in the Mannor of Radewynter The answer is sequatur ad Legem Communem Another President of Mariote the wife of Robert de Carle in the same page praying remedy for a breach of the Peace by the Parson of Wormele and others the Answer is Adeat Cancel habeat ibi Breve in suo Casu And to a Petition of Robert le Sausser p. 410 for a debt due to him Answered habeat in Cancell Breve de debito The last President cited was p. 411. Ralph de Draiton Parson of Luffenham complaining against Robert de Vere and others for imprisoning him till he resigned his living taking away his goods and committing other violences for which he had a Commission of inquiry in the Country of York and now prayed remedy The answer is quoad Resignationem nonpertinet ad Regem quoad Commissionem habendam ostendat in Cancellaria primam commissionem ibi respondeatur Et habeat similiter in Cancell Brevia de Transgressionibus sibi factis contra pacem c. To this first part of that Conference the Lords when they came to theirs gave for Answer in the first place That they could not but observe some thing unusual in the very title of the Petition differing from the ancient Stile of those presented to the House of Commons Then that they were much surprised reading the Petition to find so many falsities and yet to heare the Gentlemen that managed for the House of Commons say that their House had examined it and found all the Allegations in it to be true Whereas in truth there were in it almost as many Falshoods as Lines those Falshoods have been mentioned before so as it is not needfull again to repeat them The Lords took notice after of the unusual Proceeding of the House of Commons to take Cognizance of any matter depending in their House before their Lordships had given any Judgment therein or communicated the same unto them And to examine proceed upon and censure by vote the Proceeding of the House of Peers which they said the House of Commons could not Legally do because they were not a Court of Judicature in any case much less of the House of Peers which is the Highest Iudicature And that in truth they had not means to come to the Knowledge of the truth whereby to found a Right Judgment because they have not power to give an Oath Nor in this particular had they heard any more then one side having not heard Skinner at all Nor yet had they conferred with the Lords by which meanes they might have come to the knowledge of the grounds and reasons upon which their Lordships had proceeded So as the Lords could not but wonder at this Judgement which had been past upon them Then they came to that Assertion concerning Common Pleas That they must be proceeded in by the Kings Original writ and consequently not before the Lords for which the House of Commons brought some Presidents to prove that Free-holds were never examined in Parliament but alwaies left to the remedy at Law And in the next place the Lords took into Consideration how they began their Presidents with this Preamble That where the party never Pleads to the Jurisdiction of the Court it is ordinary for Courts to proceed though in Cases not within their Jurisdiction To which the Lords said in the first place as to the Assertion viz. That all Common Pleas must be proceeded in by Original Writ and Consequently not before the Lords That it was as easy for them to assert the contrary and upon better grounds Being able to shew Presidents all along from the first and the most ancient Records we have down to the latest and most moderne ones of the Proceedings of Parliaments even within the memory and knowledge of every yong man that the House of Peers have still exercised this Jurisdiction even in particular Cases of Meum Tuum between man and man when they have thought good though that but rarely and when moved to it by some thing extraordinary in the Case and that no House of Peers hath done it less and been more tender of entertaining such businesses and more unwilling to be troubled with them then this present House of Peers upon which so much blame is laid and which is the only House of Peers that ever Private Persons found guilty and censured by it for foul Oppressions did presume in that manner to accuse and impeach to any Court or Councel or Company of men no not to the King himself Or that ever were censured and such votes passed upon before But we shall hereafter in its due place examine the matter of this Assertion and shall shew that it holds not true even in the ordinary Courts of Westminster-Hall whither of common Law or Equity where Cases of mens Free-holds are tryed every day without any original Writt and much less in Parliament In the mean time we will take things in order as they were delivered And to the Preamble which usherd in the Presidents That where the Party never pleads to the Jurisdiction it is ordinary for Courts to proceed though in Cases not within their Iurisdiction upon which the Inference must be that Presidents then signify nothing to prove a Jurisdiction though never so many though a constant Series of them in all times be made appear except there be still a pleading to the Jurisdiction and that Plea overruled The Lords thought this a strange Argumentation and took the force of the Argument to lye rather the other way That it is a clearer Proofe of a Jurisdiction to have it never or seldome questioned and be still exercised and submitted unto then if it be some times opposed though it be made good and maintained against that Opposition And they thought that in this particular Case they had good Warrant for their Jurisdiction finding it so seldome opposed even by the House of Commons own shewing who could bring but four Presidents where any had pleaded to their Jurisdiction and the Plea seemingly admitted for
any body else perhaps I say even some of them should they prevail now may hereafter repent it and wish they had not removed an Ancient Land Mark which heretofore was in Veneration and looked upon as that which bounds both power and Liberty and is a guard to both by keeping both within their due limits and hath ever been held most necessary to the Constitution the Government of this Kingdome for the Preservation of it and as servicable to Monarchy for the keeping up of Regal Dignity and Authority as usefull to the subject for the maintaining of his just Liberty and Freedome But let us go on with the Conference and see what was said by the Lords to the Presidents cited by the Commons To the first of John de Insula against the Bishop of Winchester the Lords said it was no dismission of the Bishop for want of Jurisdiction for then it would not have been said Eat inde ad praesens but rather ad perpetuum This is but a Temporary dismission no more but as if they had said Well the Bishop saith he was seised of that advowson in Right of his Church Let the King for whom John de Insula prosecutes take his Writ out of the Chancery and try for that And for the Ejection Complained of let that be tryed by a Jury of the Country and see if things can be so ended If not come again then and we will hear you But for the Present we dismiss you So the Lords concluded That this President made nothing against their Jurisdiction To the 2d of Hugh de Louther and the Heire of Edelyngthorp upon which the Commons did so much insist and particularly upon the expression Nec est Juri Consonum nec hactenus in ista Curia usitatum c. The Lords said That neither this President well examined would make much against them For that Adam concerning whom and upon whose occasion that was said was not at all before the Lords as a Partie in the Cause before them but came in of himself unsent for unlooked for layes in a claime which the Lords of that Parliament had not heard of before nor did at all then question So as it cannot be said that there was any dismission of him or of his business But the Lords say Let him pursue and recover his Land by a Writ out of the Chancery if he will and that he sees it convenient for him si sibi Viderit expedire and they go on to determine the business which was before them The Case was thus Thomas de Normanvil an Escheator had order concerning Hugh de Louther for certain Lands then in his Possession which had been seised into the Kings hands as held of him in Capite formerly by Henry de Edelyngthorp to whom one Eston had granted them and to the Heirs of his body lawfully begotten and having none to returne to Eston under whom now Louther claimed The order was That Louther should give Pledge to come and Answer at that Parliament for the profits of those Lands to the King Louther comes as he was bound and at the same time one Adam comes also pretends himself to be Son and Heire to Edelyngthorp and demands the Land Louther said he is a Bastard and the Lands belong not to him And the Lords they say they have nothing to do with him let him sue for his Land where he thinks best and so send him away But Louther they adjudge to do his homage and to be Answerable to the King for the Rent And for the Title of the Land What do they do they let it alone and meddle no more with it as a thing not at all within their Cognizance or Jurisdistion Nothing less They Command the Escheator Normanvil to make enquiry upon Oath if Edelyngthorp had any Heire lawfully begotten who he was and upon what Title he claimed and to give on account of it at the next Parliament Ita quod idem Escaetor ad proximum Parlamentum post Festum Sancti Michaelis Domino Regi distinctè et apertè inde respondeat So as the Lords then were farr from thinking they must not meddle with such things And for that expression of Non est consonum c. rendred as the ground of that Judgment of dismission First it is answered it was no Judgment at all not only of dismission for Adam was no party in the Cause Then it is no part of the Judgment if there were a Judgment but precedes it The Judgment such as it is or rather the Answer to Adams demand followes in these words Dictum est praedicto Adae quod sibi perquirat per Breve de Cancellaria si sibi viderit expedire So as the preceding words may perhaps have been but inserted by the Clerk that entred the Order But take it at the strongest Admit that the Lords then present in the House had inserted those words as their sence at that time Is that binding to the House that it may not be of an other opinion at an other time In that very Parliament of 18 E. 1. How many times have they been of an other mind How many examples are there of Particular Causes Judged and determined by them And shall one Swallow make a Summer one single President overballance multitudes of Presidents to the Contrary In the last place it was said That this President did not Quadrare sure with this present Case of Skinners fort at was meerely concerning a Liberum Tenementum and within the Realm where the Law had free Course here is Rapine Oppression Spoiling of goods dispossessing one of an Island in Fortein parts extra potestatem Legis assaulting the Person of a fellow Subject a violent Interruption of the trade and commerce of the Nation Which concernes the Government of the Kingdome is a matter of State and highly entrenches upon the Authority of the King which will suffer much if he suffer one subject to exercise a Tyrannicall Dominion over an other though in an other Country And is against the profit of the King which is much concerned That no violence be used in the management of trade to bring a Scandal upon the Nation make it stinke in Forrein parts that none will have to do with us which must needs become the ruine of our trade and so of all His Customes If one Merchant do that which is prejudicial to an other or to a Company let them Complain of him to the King who will command him home and punish him And if he will not come for that may be objected being so farr off out of reach then the King will give them leave that are wronged and grieved by him to right themselves But that they should do it of themselves and in their own Case be Judges Witnesses and Executioners against all reason and Justice So the Lords were not at all convinced with this President neither but still thought they had done very well in Censuring the East-India Company for
their Misdemeanors and wrongs done to Skinner and in adjudging them to give Skinner Reparation for it The 3d President was that of william de Valentia and Isabell de Mareschal in which the Lords observed the dismission to have been only ad proesens But withall observed that the bare reading of the Case in the Book will satisfy one of the Jurisdiction of the Peers to retaine such Causes It sayes That William de Valentia had at the fore going Parliament been Ad querelas Isabellae le Mareschall allocutus et ad rationem positus impleaded and put to Answer by what right he assumed such an Office and such Power in the Hundred of Hosterelegh and that he then alleged he did it in the Right of his Wife and that it being his Wifes Inheritance he ought not to be put to answere without her Ita quod datus fuit dies ei ad hunc diem ad Parlamentum Domini Regis viz. a die Paschae in ires Septimanas And then his Wife and he appeared by their Atturney and after pleadings The Judgment is Quia praedicti Willielmus Et Johanna sunt in seisina de praedicta Jurisdictione et de Haeredicate ipsius Johannae per descensum haereditarium et non per Usurpationem seu Purpresturam c. Consideratum est quod eant inde sine die quoad praesens Et Dominus Rex habeat Breve si voluerit c. The Lords knew they had Jurisdiction else they would have dismissed the Cause the Parliament before and not have adjourned it to the next Parliament upon that ground to make the Wife a Party as we see they did And whereas the Commons had upon this President observed that if there had been Crime in the Case as Usurpation or Purpresture then they acknowledged that in such Cases the House of Lords did usually proceed and try them but withall added That if that were the question much might be said how the Constitution of Government hath been since altered So as they soon retracted their admittance of but so much of the Lords Right and what they had given with their right hand they would soon take again with their left But first for their Concession of Judging Crime the Lords say that suffices for their Jndemnity as to what they have done in this particular Case of the East-India Company and Skinner for here is Crime sufficient and Usurpation and Purpresture taking them in the larger sence for invading any other mans Right and not only where the King is concerned as those termes are taken some times And then for the Qualification of their Gift upon the Change and alteration of the Government The Lords Answer That when they shew the Time when that alteration was made and the Persons by whom and the Manner how if Legally done they shal then believe submit and not till then But they never heard of any thing that till now so much as looked that way except that Vote of the Assembly called the Rump which declared the House of Lords useless and dangerous and therefore to be abolished and taken away and by a Clubb Law they did take it away But even they that passed that Vote and did make that Clubb Law thought the Judicature necessary and fit to be continued for they immediatly assumed it to themselves and fairely voted themselves into that Power by the Name of the Commons of England the very same Title that the East-India Company do now make use of in their Petition to the House of Commons To the 4th of Roger de Somerion prosecuting for the King and complaining of the Prior of Buttele for unjustly withholding from the King the mannor of Somerton And the Judgment upon it Ideo praedictus Priot quo ad hoc eat inde sine die ad praesens The Lords say it is but a Temporary dismission as the others were and signifies nothing as to the point of Jurisdiction And they wish the Commons would have pleased to cast their eye upon the ensuing Case in the same leafe of William de Valentia again and of him upon the same occasion concerning his Wifes Inheritance as formerly where there is not a Dismission of the Cause as formerly but a determination of it and that determination again referred unto and confirmed by a suceeding Parliament to shew that the House of Lords sometimes would and sometimes would not Judge and determine such causes as were brought before them That Case was thus William de Valentia Complaines of the Lords of the Counsel for admitting during the Kings absence beyond the Seas one Dionisia a pretended Daughter of William de Monte Caniso Tenant to the King of Lands held in Capite and formerly enjoyed by her Father in his life time Whereas his Wife was true Heire to that William and the Land belonging to her The Lords of the Councel justifie what they have done say that Dionisia was notoriously known to be the true Daughter of that William and that the Bishop of Winchester in whose Diocess she was born testified it The Judgment is Ideo videtur domino Regi quod praedictus Comes Thesaurar Alij de Consilio bene et rité processerunt It is not now sibi perquirat per Breve de Cancel They do not referr him to the Chancery as they did in the other Case This was in 18 E. 1. In 20 E. 1. p. 103. he comes again to Parliament and renues his Complaint and that Judgment given before is confirmed the words are these et de alijs Petitionibus suis viz. De hoereditate Willielmi de Monte Caniso petenda et etiam quod procedatur juxta Bullam quam jidem Williemus et Johanna impetrarunt ad inficiendum Processum perquod Dionisia filia proedicti Willielmi Legitima censebatur alias eis responsum fuit viz. in Parliamento post Natale Domini Anno 18. ut patet in Rotulis ejusdem Parliamenti Ad quam Responsionem se teneant c. Nothing can be clearer then the continual practice of this Jurisdiction in the House of Lords whensoever they pleased Not that it hath alwaies pleased them to trouble themselves with exercising this Jurisdiction their time having been so taken up some times with businesses of a higher Nature that they could not attend it so as many times they have tyed up themselvesby an Order of the House not to receive any private business As in the Close Roll 18 E. 1. There is a memorable Order to that purpose I will set it down at length in the very words which are these Pur ces Ke la gent Ke venent al Parlement le Roy sunt sovent destaez et destourbez a grant grevance de eux e de la Curt par la multitudine des Peticions Ke sunt botez devant le Roy de quevx le plus porreient estre espleytez par Chanceler et par Justices purveu est Ke tutes les Petitions Ke tuchent le sel vegnent primes al
3. N. 96. It is there specified How in the Parliament before one Hugh Staffolk had been accused of divers Extortions and that a Commission was then granted to the Earl of Suffolk and Sir John Cavendish to inquire into it who so had done and had found him guiltless by 18 Enquests which Sir John Cavendish did in that present Parliament witness to be true By all this it appears that the Authority of the House of Peers ends not with the Parliament but their Judgements still continue in full force and power And they may appoint Persons to see them executed if they please And whereas the House of Commons doth not deny them a power of Judicature upon Writs of Error and upon Appeales Will not the same objection lye as well against their Judgements in those Cases For seldome that they be put in execution before the Parliament rise so it takes away their whole Judicature as in truth all the other objections would do could they be made good And whereas it was said That none of the Kings Courts can give remedy where the Kings Writ can not run And where his Majesties Soveraignty doth not come the Jurisdiction of the Peers can have no place It was Answered that there Chiefly the Power of the House of Peers is to give remedy because it only can As for Treasons till the Statutes of 26 H. 8. C. 13.32 H. 8. C. 2. and 5 E. 6. C. 11. which have made them tryable within the Realm and all Misdemeanors committed in Forrein parts which never were nor yet are tryable at the Common Law Of this there are multitudes of Presidents Gomeniz Weston Segrave Hall Richill c. And here within the Kingdome the the Kings Writ doth not originally run in all places as for example in the Counties Palatine yet no man will deny the Authotity of the Lords in Parliament taking place there 9 R. 2. N. 13. The Duke of Lancaster Complaines of Sir John Stanley for not suing out his Livery for the Mannor of Latham in the Dukes Court of Chancery and yet entring upon it They declare his Entry unlawful and Order him to sue out his livery in the Dukes Court. The Kings Writ did not run there but the Authority of the Lords did Another Objection was That all Proceedings ought to be in Latin and nâ— Record to be in English But the Lords had thought That none had ever yet doubted but the House of Peers had been a Court of Record where all the Proceedings Orders Judgements have been in English ever since H. 6â—… time All Acts of Parliament in English All impeachments even those brought up by the House of Commons the Proceedings and the Sentence all in English The Ancient Records were in French and the Pleadings likewise till the Statute of 36 E. 3. Which appoints Pleadings to be in English and to be entred and enrolled in Latin so the Print saith but in Sir Robert Cottons Abridgement of the Records it is observed that the Record it self warrants no such thing Then the Chancery Proceedings are all in English The Pleadings Orders and Decrees Yet it will not be denied but that is a Court of Record Sir Edward Coke who alone is of an other Opinion concerning the Chancery and upon that ground because the Proceeding is in English yet makes the House of Commons it self a Court of Record where every body knowes all is in English Jnst 4. part p. 23. so he doth not sibi constare The last Objection and indeed the the Chief one if true was That it deprives the Subject of the benefit of Magna Charta which will have all men to be tryed by their Peers or by the Law of the Land And the 25 of Ed. 3. C. 4. that none shall be apprehended upon Petition to the King or Counsel and Counsel here they interpreted to be the House of Lords but upon inditement or presentment or by Writ Original And the 42. of E. 3. which is to the same purpose It was urged further that no Writ was ever made returnable Coram Dominis Spiritualibus et Temporalibus And it was said in Regard of the Island being in a Forrein Princes Jurisdiction that it ought to have been done by Act of Parliament for that no Court of his Majestie can give remedy where his Majesties Writ can not run nor can the Jurisdiction of the House of Peers have place there An other observation they had upon Lex Terrae in Magna Charta That in the Arguments of the Kings learned Counsel 3. Car. They made Lex Terrae to be the pleasure of the King And the Lords were desired to consider upon this if by arguing that the Proceedings of their House were maintained to be Secundum Legem Terrae it may not as well be said that Magna Charta will have men to be tryed Per Judicium Parium aut per Legem Terrae That is by the will of the Lords This is the substance of what was most materially urged against the Lords at that Conference Some other things were said rather to entertain the By-standers then for any thing else as the question asked How the Lords should see further beyond sea then other men Indeed the Lords thought they might see as farr as other men and as farr as the Court of Chancery or any other Court but never undertook to see further But they think if some may have their wills they may be laid so low that they shall then see but a very little way but that is not yet And another pretty Dilemma was made which was this Are the Lords bound to recieve all Petitions or not if bound they may refuse none for Magna Charta saith Nulli negabimus and the King is Debitor Justitiae to all his subjects If they be not bound then they must be partial to receive some and dismiss others But this Argumentum bicorne hurts with neither horne For the Lords in these very Presidents brought by the House of Commons in Ed. 1. Ed. 2. time did not deny Justice when they sent the Petitioners unto those several Courts where they should receive it one to the Chancery an other to the Common Law and directed one to bring such an Action another a differing one according to their several Cases And in those multitudes of Presidents brought by the Lords where Causes have been retained and determined in that House they can not justly be charged with Partiality when they are moved thereunto by some thing extraordinary in those Cases which requires their Relief and that it can not be had else where And a Question may be put on the other side whither it can be believed that Partiality was imputed to all the Parliaments heretofore which at their first sitting appointed Committees Tryers of Petitions for England for Ireland for Gascony nay for Flanders where the King had no Dominion and sometimes in general for all places beyond the Seas to examine which were fit to be received
which not And those Parliaments that the Modus Parliamenti speakes of when a little before the rising of the Parliament Proclamation was made in Publick places to know if any had business to the Parliament if any had Petitioned the Parliament their Petition had not been answered Certainly those Parliaments then did not apprehend to be reproached either with Partiality or deniall of Justice And I would aske this further If they can think that such a Committee of Tryers would have rejected Skinners Petition and have said The Lords can take no Cognizance of your business because it is concerning things done beyond Sea when themselves were a Committee appointed only for such businesses But to let these Sarcasmes pass and see rather what was said and may be said to the more solid objections concerning Magna Charta and those other Statutes which they will have to condemne the Proceedings of the Lords First it may be observed as a thing very strange that in above 400 years since Magna Charta was first made a Law it was never till now found out that the Lords had broken that Law by the exercise of this Jurisdiction nor were they ever charged with it before But besides do they by this any more break it then the Court of Chancery which by a Decree disposes of a mans Lands or the Court of the Constable and Marshall which takes away a mans life or any other Court where the Judge for a Contempt presently sends a man to Prison or claps a Fine on his head so takes both person and Estate or the same House of Lords when it Commits a man upon an Impeachment of the House of Commons Judges and Condemnes him Here is no Judicium Parium that is most certain nor Lex Terrae if you take it for an Original Writ And yet no man will say any of this is contrary to Magna Charta Why then may not the Proceedings of the House of Peers when it punisheth a man for robbing and assaulting his fellow subject in as strange Country which puts the busines out of the Cognizance of the ordinary Courts of Justice receive as favourable a Construction It can not be said that the House of Commons by their taking Cognizance of a Fact by their previous examination of it and declaration upon it giving it the Denomination of Treason or of any other lesser Crime can create a Jurisdiction in the House of Peers which it had not before and give it new power and Authority to pass a condemnation upon the guilty Person yet is it the Ordinary practice of the House of Commons who have a Grand Committee of Grievances for that purpose to impeach men so before the Lords They could receive not long since a Petition of one Taylor complaining against the Lord Mordant for oppression and falss imprisonment and the injurious taking away of an Office from him at Windsor All which were properly tryable in Westminster-Hall yet they could bring this up to the Lords and crave Reparations and Damages in the Name of the Commons of England And the Lords must not though at the Kings recommendation receive a Petition from Skinner and give him relief for his whole Estate by violence and with a strong hand taken from him part at Sea part upon Land in a strange Country in neither of which the Courts of Westminister can afford him any help For this must be against Magna Charta So rather then the Lords shall do it this must be a Failer of Justice in the Land the King shall not be able to protect his subjects the oppressor shall go free and the cry of the oppressed shall go up to heaven for Judgment upon the Land because he finds not Justice in it for his Relief But I remember what the Gentlemen of the House of Commons said at the Conference That therefore the Lords should not have given Relief in this Case because there was no remedy at all at Law This Objection hath been already answered therefore I shall not repeat it here only use one Argument more ad hominum that they forget what themselves have done this very Parliament entertaining a Complaint of one Farmer against the Lord Willoughby who is since dead for dispossessing him of his Estate and other wrongs done him in the Barbadoes which could not be tryed in Westminster-Hall which yet they were preparing to bring up to the Lords by way of Impeachment if the Lord Willoughby had not dyed And there is reason to believe that if Skinner had in the like manner applied himself to them there had been no breach of Magna Charta nor no exceptions taken at the great charge of the Subject appealing to the House of Commons and prosecution there though the charge be every whit as great and becomes much greater to the party that prosecutes for when he hath done there then he must begin again in the House of Lords so the charge is double and the Judgement when it comes is never a whit more in Latin to make it a Record then if the business had begun first in the Lords House as much is it without Jury or Appeal and no less danger of the non-execution of the Judgement after the rising of the Parliament In Fine all that is said against the Lords Proceedings now might as well be said against them then And to say the truth if it be well considered it wil be found that the consequence of this opposition should it work it's effect and prevail would be the overturning of the very foundation of all Authority of Parliament that it might then well be said of the whole Parliament that it did sit only to make Laws and give Subsidies But all this proves not the exercise of the Lords Judicature to be warranted by Magna Charta it only saith that other Courts and the House of Commons it self do as bad Which is no Justification of the Lords For to erre with Company is not to be free from fault Let us then see what may be said to clear them all but principally and Chiefly this Judicature of the House of Peers which is the mark shot at And to do this we must examine the Disjunctive proposition in Magna Charta which saith that every man shal be tryed Per Legale Judicium Parium suorum vel per Legem Terrae For if the Lords judge by either of these they are well enough And Sir Ed. Coke shall determine the question whom no man can suspect of partiality for the House of Lords He tells us in his 2. Inst F. 51. That Lex Terrae is Lex Angliae not Voluntas Regis as the Commons said the Kings Counsel would have it to be 3 Car. And less voluntas Dominorum Fot it is not in an arbitrary way the Lords proceed but according to the Law of the Land to punish nothing but what the Law makes punishable and Judge every thing according to Right secundum aequum et bonum So
and it pertained to the King and not to the Arch-Bishop to take cognisance of the Imprisonment if or no it was lawful The Judgement is Videtur Domino Regi in pleno Parlamento praedictis Comitibus Baronibus c. Quod praedictus Archiepiscopus quantum in ipso fuit nitebatur usurpare super Coronam Dignitatem Regiam c. Propter quod per Comites Barones Justiciarios omnes alios de Consilio ipsius Domini Regis unanimiter concordatum est quod praedictus Archiepiscopus committatur Prisonae pro Offensa Transgressione praedictis Et super hoc ante Judicium pronunciatum licet unanimiter de Consilio praedict Magnatum aliorum concordatum fuisset tenendum in hoc Casu similiter in Casibus consimilibus in perpetuum praedictus Archiepiscopus Magnates alios de Consilio ipsius Domini Regis rogavit quod pro eo Dominum Regem requirerent ut ante pronunciationem Judicii ipsum ad gratiam suam admitteret voluntatem suam They interceded for him and he made Fine to the King of 4000 Marks and was received to favour They did not only give a Judgment in this particular Case which being Contra Coronam Dignitatem was tryable in Westminster-hall but they declare it to be a Standing Rule for the Judging of all Cases of like nature which shews the absoluteness of that Power of Judicature which is lodged in that House It was said That the Lords could not take a Cause to themselves per Saltum and before it had passed all the formalities below That a Writ of Error did not lie from the Common Pleas to the Lords House but must first be brought to the Kings Bench And the Case of the Bishop of Norwich was urged 50. Ed. 3. And it is acknowledged The Lords would not receive that Bishops Complaint but sent him away with that Answer nor could they give him any other For Writs of Error have their Walk and their gradual Proceeding chalked out and setled by several Statutes and by the Common Law of the Land But what doth that signifie against the Judicature of the House of Peers No man saith the Lords can either take Cognisance of Causes or judge Causes against the Law of the Land and take them per saltum when the Law prohibits it But they do say and affirm That by all the Examples and Presidents of former times it hath been the usage of that House to receive Complaints and give remedy in all Cases where the Law hath not expresly otherwise determined and if there be any thing in the Case which merits or requires and needs something above the ordinary Power and Proceeding of the Inferior Courts of Justice to administer that Relief which is just and due As in Cases of difficulty where a Court cannot or of delay where it will not proceed the Lords who have a general inspection into the Administration of the Justice of the Kingdom and into the Proceedings of all other Courts have ever upon Application made to them assumed to themselves the Cognisance of such Causes 14. Ed. 3. Sir John Stanton and his Wife had passed a Fine of certain Lands to Thomas Cranthorn who reverts them back and by that means setled them upon the Wife Sir Jeffry Stanton as next Heir brings his Formedon en le descender in the Common Pleas where after some Proceedings upon a Demurrer in Law Sir Jeffry could not get the Judges to proceed to Judgement Upon which he Petitions the King in Parliament which no man will deny to have been in the House of Peers They examine the Matter And afterward order a Writ under the Great Seal containing the whole Matter to be sent to the Judges there willing them thereby if the Matter so stood to proceed to Judgment without delay They not doing it an Alias is sent And the Judges doing nothing then neither and Sir Jeffrey renewing his Petition The Lords commanded the Clerk of the Parliament Sir Thomas de Drayton to go to Sir John Stoner and the rest of the Judges of the Common Pleas and to require them according to the Plea pleaded to proceed to Judgment or else to come into the House with the whole Record so as in Parliament Judgement might be given for one or the other of the Parties The Judges come at the day and the business was heard and it was adjudged That Sir Jeffrey should recover And a Writ under the Great Seal was sent to the Judges to give Judgment accordingly Here then the King in Parliament that is the House of Peers upon a Petition assumes the Cognisance of a Cause depending in the Court of Common Pleas which was so far from having passed all the formalities below that is to say an Appeal to the Kings Bench and Chancery that it was as yet undetermined in the Common Pleas. Nor did it appear unto them upon what ground it was that the Judges gave not Judgment So they might have answered Sir Jeffrey Stantons Petition with saying that they would first see what the Court would determine and what the Kings Bench afterwards But they apply themselves to give him relief And yet no Votes past against that House for so doing as now hath been in the Case of Skinner against this So in the Parliament of 18. E. 1. p. 16. of the Placita Parlamentaria William de Wasthul complains of Matthew del Exchequer for cosening him upon the levying of a Fine before the Judges of the Common Pleas by procuring an Atturney to slip in other Lands unknown to Wasthul and which be intended not to pass in the Fine This is returned back to those Judges because the Fine had been levied before them Et dictum est iisdem Justiciariis quod Recordum istud in Rotulis suis faciant irrotulare tam super Recordo isto quam super aliis ipsum Matthaeum coram eis contingentibus procedant ad Judicium debitum festinum faciant Justitiae Complementum True the House of Lords is not so bound up to forms but that it may when it thinks good vary and retain a Cause at one time which it will not do at any other time Yet we see they were proper Judges in this Cause for they order Wasthulls Complaint and the Proceedings before them to be entred as a Record in the Common Pleas and those Judges to proceed upon it which if they had not had Cognisance of the Matter had been all Coram non Judice and could have signified nothing And I must observe one thing which I think will not be denyed That all those Placita Parlamentaria whatever is said to be done Coram Rege in Parlamento is to be understood of the House of Peers where the King was in those times commonly present and alwayes understood to be there representatively So as his Name was ever mentioned in the Proceedings even when his Person was absent being sometimes out of the Kingdom sometimes detained away
which they look'd upon as deeply trenching upon the Priviledges of their House all Judgments properly and solely belonging to them Thereupon they sent a Message to the House of Commons and desired a Conference At which Conference the Commons confessed That out of their Zeal they had censured Flood But they left him now to their Lordships and hoped their Lordships would censure him In order to which they sent up a Trunk of Writings concerning his Case Then the Lords proceeded to the hearing of it examined several Witnesses and heard all Flood could say for himself which done they adjudged him Not to bear longer the Arms of a Gentleman To ride with his face to the Horse tayl to stand upon the Pillory with his Ears nailed to be whipped at a Carts tayl to be fined Five thousand pounds and to be imprisoned in Newgate during life 21. Jac. Thomas Morley was convented before the Lords for delivering a Scandalous Petition to the House of Commons as himself affirmed against the Lord-Keeper Coventry Upon examination it appeared that it had not been presented to the House of Commons only to their Committee of Grievances that he had published very many Copies of it even since his being convented before their Lordships They adjudge him to be imprisoned in the Fleet to pay 1000 l Fine to stand with his neck in the Pillory to make his Submission and Acknowledgment at the Barr. 22 Jac. Mary Brocas petitioned the Lords to be relieved for a Debt of 1000 l due unto her by Bond from the Muscovia Company Upon hearing both sides their Lordships order the Company to pay the Debt with 5 l per cent Interest out of the Leviations which the said Company had made among themselves for the payment of their Debts The same Parliament May 28. Thomas Pynckney petitions the House in the behalf of himself and other Creditors of Sir John Kennedy to be relieved for Debts owing to them from Sir John by the sale of Barn-Elms Lands in the possession of his Heir John Kennedy The Lords upon examination of the business find cause and so they order it That Barn Elms should be sold to the best value and the Profits to be sequestred in the mean time into indifferent hands And that a Recognizance of 2000 l in which Pinckney stood bound in Chancery should be withdrawn and cancelled The same Parliament again Grizell Rogers Widow petitions the Lords for the setling her Title to certain Lands in Heygrove in the County of Somerset and for quieting and ending divers Suits and Differences between her and Sir Arthur Ingram Sir William Whitmore c. They order her Satisfaction out of particular Lands And all Suits to cease between them And appointed Releases of all differences on both sides to be drawn and sealed 4. Car. 31. Jan. The Lords Committees for Petitions make report to the House of a Petition of Benjamin Crokey against John Smith in behalf of a Grammar-School at Wotton-Underedge in the County of Glocester which School was endowed with great Possessions by the Widow of the Lord Berkly in Richard the 2 ds time which were now much abated and brought to an undervalue by the cunning practices of the said Smith Upon which the Lords awarded a Commission to issue out of the Chancery to survey all the said Lands And ordered also a special Habeas Corpus to be directed to the Warden of the Fleet where Crokey was a Prisoner to bring the Body of the said Crokey before the Lord-Keeper to the intent he might attend the said Commission And ordered further That if Crokey did make it appear the value of the Lands to be so as be said and that to be approved by the Lords Committees for Petitions then Smith to repay to the said Crokey such Charges as he shall disburse in the Prosecution In the Parliament of 1640 Decemb. 16. Upon report from the Lords Committees for Petitions That Mistris James complained against Sir Edmond Sawyer for sheltring himself under a Royal Protection which he had procured by which means she could not sue him upon a Bond of 500 l for so much Money borrowed of her and two years Interest and so was debarred from helping her self by any Legal course The Lords ordered that the said Mris James should proceed against the said Sir Edmond Sawyer for the recovering of her Debt in any Court where she thought best notwithstanding his Protection December 21. The Lords Committees report a Petition of Katherine Hadley complaining that she had been kept a long time a Prisoner in the Common-Gaol in the Old Bridewell without any cause shewn the Lords ordered her Release The 22th of Decemb. Upon a Report from the Lords Committees of Sir Robert Howard's Case complaining that he had been committed Close-Prisoner to the Fleet by the High Commission Court and kept there three months till he was fain for his enlargement to enter into several Bonds with Sureties in the sum of 3500 l For which he desired Reparations and his Bonds to be cancelled The parties interessed were summoned and heard And after due consideration the Lords ordered a thousand pound damages to Sir Robert Howard of which 500 l to be paid by the Archbishop of Canterbury 250 l by Sir Hen. Martin and 250 l by Sir John Lambe the Bonds to be forthwith cancelled and delivered to Sir Robert Howard The 23d of Decemb. They reported the Case of William Dudley that he having arrested the Lord Wentworth son to the Earl of Cleveland for a Debt of 400 l entred a Caution in Mr. Justice Bartley's Chamber for good Bayl to be taken yet Justice Bartley had released the said Lo. Wentworth upon such Bayl as the said Dudley was utterly disabled to recover his debt Justice Bartley being called made no good Answer thereunto The Lords thereupon order that the said Justice Bertley should forthwith assure unto the said Dudley his House and Land near Barnet for securing the said Debt with Interest and Damages The same day they report likewise the Case of Mris Mary Stanhope Widow Daughter-in-law to the Earl of Chesterfield complaining that the said Earle refused to assure unto her 40 l per Annum during her Widowhood according to a former Agreement made between them which appeared to be true by a Letter produced under the Earl's hand And his counsel being heard and no good cause shewn why the Petitioner should not be relieved The Lords ordered the Earl of Chesterfield forthwith to assure to the said Mris Mary Stanhope his Daughter-in-law 40 l per Annum during her Widdowhood and to pay unto her such money as was in arrear of the 40 l per Annum due to her for the space of two years The 30th of December the Lords Committees for examining Abuses in Courts of Justice report the Complainâ—… of John Turner a Prisoner in the Gate-house committed thither by the High-Commission Court where he had lain fourteen years for refusing to take the Oath Ex
redress what was amiss and punish those that had offended All the Presidents shew it so to have been and not one no not one to the contrary 5. H. 4. n. 74. The Commons Petition That all such Persons as shall Arrest any Knight or Burgess of the Commons or any of their Servants and know them so to be do Fine at the Kings Will and render treble Damages to the Party grieved The Answer is There is sufficient remedy for the Cause Which remedy it seems was That the King and Lords would set them at Liberty which was as they conceived sufficient For 8. H. 6. n. 57. Among the Petitions of the Commons one is That William Lake Servant to William Mildred Burges for London was Arrested and carried to the Fleet upon an Execution and they pray he may be delivered according to the Priviledge of their House It is granted but withal Authority is given to the Chancellor to commissionate Persons to apprehend him again after the Parliament 39. H. 6. n. 9. The Commons complain by Petition to the King and Lords That Walter Clerck one of their Members Burgess for Chippenham in Wilts had been Outlawed and put in Prison and pray That by the Assent of the King and Lords he may be released Which was granted and their Member set at Liberty 14. E. 4. n. 55. The Commons among their Petitions bring up one of a Member of theirs William Hide Burgess likewise for Chippenham being taken in Exeoution for Debt and a Prisoner in the Kings Bench praying he may be delivered by a Writ of Priviledge out of the Chancery the which is granted with this saving That bis Creditors may renue their Execution after the Parliament 17. E. 4. n. 36. At the Petition also of the Commons the King with the Assent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal grants That John at Will Burgess for Exceter condemned in the Exchequer during the Parliament upon eight several Informations at the Sute of John Taylor of the same Town shall have as many Supersedeas therefore as he will until his coming home after the Parliament One memorable Case of this Nature must not be omitted which hapned 31. H. 6. n. 25 26. c. Thomas Thorp Chief Baron was Speaker of the House of Commons and in an Interval of Parliament the Parliament being upon a Prorogation he had been Arrested and carried to Prison at the Duke of York ' s Sute who had got a Judgement against him in the Exchequer upon an Action of Trespass for carrying away the Dukes Goods from Durham-House The Parliament meeting the House of Commons send up some of their Members to make Complaint to the King and Lords That their Speaker was a Prisoner and desire his Release The Duke of York gives the Lords an account of the business They ask the Judges Opinion in the Point The Judges Answer was in these words It hath not been used before time nor becomes it us to determine matters concerning the High Court of Parliament which is so high and mighty in its Nature that it is Judge of the Law and makes that to be Law which is not Law and that to be no Law which is And the Determination of its Priviledges belongs to the Lords in Parliament and not to Justices But to declare the Use in Lower Courts they said That as Writs of Supersedens of Priviledge of Parliament were brought unto them concerning any particular Member of Parliament who had been Arrested so it were not for Treason Felony Surety of the Peace or for a Condemnation before Parliament they did alwayes release him that be might freely attend the Parliament After which Answer made It was by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal agreed assented and concluded That the said Thorp should remain in Prison notwithstanding his being Speaker of the House of Commons or any other Priviledge of Parliament And they Ordered the same to be declared unto them that were come from the Commons by Walter Moyle a Serjeant at Law because it was Matter of Law but in the presence of the Bishop of Ely and many other Lords And then the Bishop of Ely was to charge them in the Kings Name to chuse an other Speaker This was accordingly performed And the House of Commons did chuse an other Speaker Sir Thomas Charleton in the place of Thomas Thorp and sent some Members to acquaint the Lords with it and the Lord Chancellor answered The King likes him well It is to be noted That the King lay then sick at Windsor and yet all is done in the Kings Name as if he had been present These Presidents shew That the House of Commons did not in those times exercise any Jurisdiction nor themselves lay any punishment upon those that broke their Priviledges and that the Sheriffs and Bayliffs of London in that Parliament of 34. H. 8. were the first who felt any effects of their Justice in that kind Nor after that did they constantly put that Power in Execution and for some time it seems they absolutely waved it For the very next year the 35th of H. 8. One Trewinnard a Burgess for Cornewall had been imprisoned at the suite of one Skewis and was delivered onely by a Writ of Priviledge But Skewis not sent for by the Serjeant at Arms to be committed and punished by the House as the use is now So far from that That the Executors of Skewis in the Trinity term of the 36th of H. 8. brought their Action of Debt against Chamond the Sheriff of Cornewall for the Escape but were cast in their Sute and the Priviledge allowed as Dyer mentions it in his Reports p. 59. And in the 18th of Queen Elizabeth a Servant of one Mr. Hall a Member of the House being Arrested upon Complaint made to the House it was referred to a Committee to consider of the Business and how he should be released who made their Report That it could be only by a Writ of Priviledge as appears by the Journal of that Parliament And there is some reason to believe That they never or very rarely sent for by their Serjeant or medled with the Persons of such as broke their Priviledges by arresting or misusing their Servants and Attendants till 43. Eliz. For I find in a Journal of that Parliament which I have by me That a Complaint being made to the House How a Servant of one Mr. Cooke a Member of the House was arrested that President was urged of the 34th of H. 8. And it was said that the House had committed the Sheriffs of London and the Bayliffs for abusing their Serjeant and for arresting of Ferrers Whereupon it was then resolved and ordered That the Serjeant attending the House should go to Newgate and bring away both the Prisoner and his Keeper and likewise command the Bayliff who made the Arrest and the Person at whose suit it was made to appear before the House This was done the Prisoner discharged and the Bayliff and he who
of their not Judging Commoners is apparently proved by the constant practice of the House of Peers in all succeeding times And one thing more would be taken notice of in the Proceedings of the House of Peers at that time after their precipitate and Illegal Condemnation of those Persons without ever calling them to answer The Earl of March a Peer of the Realm was condemned and executed as well as the Commoners and this was looked upon as a President of ill Consequence for the Peerage and therefore they would have a Law to prevent it and that the Nobles of the Land should not be put to answer but in open Parliament by their Peers which they long endeavoured before they could obtain it So as in 15. Ed. 3. n. 6. they adjourned the Parliament severall dayes upon that point and at last appointed four Earls four Bishops four Barons to draw it up into form and got it passed into an Act but two years after the King got that Act to be repealed And so far they likewise took care of Commoners in that Parliament of 15. Ed. 3. as to have it enacted also That no man should be impeached by Commandment without process of Law These were Acts of Parliament and Laws which did bind but the other of their judging none but Peers was a meer particular Order of the House an Agreement betwixt the King them which was no wayes binding to posterity and alterable still at pleasure by the same House that made it Another Battery raised by that Author against the Jurisdiction of the House of Peers is from the Statute of Appeals 1 H. 4. c. 14. And with that he would overthrow the force of that President of John Hall condemned by the Lords in that first year of H. 4. for the death of the Duke of Glocester in the 21 of R. 2. as if that power were now taken from them by that Act and that the Commons by it had taken care it should not be so done by them any more for so he saith p. 23. Which by his leave concerns nothing the proceedings against Hall and will less I may say concern the present question of the proceedings of this House of Lords in the Case of Skinner For that Statute provides only for Tryall of Appeals where a private person next of kin is or shall be prosecutor which was not in Halls Case the prosecution being in the ordinary way at the Kings suit It is true that in the 21 of R. 2. an horrible abuse had been in point of Appeals Certain Lords not by Law capable of it taking upon them to be Appellants and in their own Names acousing in Parliament several persons Peers of the Realm and Commoners of divers Treasons and Murthers making themselves Judges and Parties and condemning them to die without nay against all forms of Law rules of Justice by which means many innocent men lost both lives and Estates This it is that is provided for by that Statute and care taken it shall be so no more not the Ordinary prosecution of Offenders in the Kings Name as Halls was Though one particular in that Tryal is confessed to have been most Irregular and Illegal which was examining him against himself upon Oath but that is not material to the point in question which is Whether the Statute of Appeals forbids such Tryals as assuredly it doth not nor any of those formerly instanced in to have past in the House of Peers And least of all can it concern the late Proceedings in the business of Skinner and the East India Company in which there is no charge either of Treason or Felony where an Appeal onely can take place to bring it within that Statute In the same 23d page an other Argument is used against this Jurisdiction of the Peers in which that Author hath certainly missed his Mark for nothing could be produced that makes more for that Jurisdiction He saith That the Subject of England hath moderated Parlaments and by express words determined that some things cannot be done in Parliament as that any should be impeached there of that concerns his Francktenement or Hereditament and vouches for his Authority Rot. Parl. 10. H. 6. n. 35. where indeed there is such a desire of the House of Commons That none shall be compelled to answer in Parliament concerning his Francktenement But let him tell us how they sped with their desire if their Petition was granted to make it a Law and binding Far from it The Answer is Le Roy saduisera The King will advise which in Parliamentary Language is a flat Denyal So then no alteration was made of what was formerly the Usage and Power of Parliament but all continued as it was before And that before they did in Parliament try and judge such matters is apparent by the desire of the Commons that it should not be so hereafter for if no such thing was their desire it should be no more so was ridiculous but it was so it seems and their desire that it should be altered being rejected leaves it in the same state it was that the Parliament might continue still to do it And by the Parliament in these Cases is to be understood onely the House of Peers for there singly lies the Judicial Power as is confessed and acknowledged by the House of Commons themselves 1. H. 4. n. 79. so it is in the Record but in the Exact Abridgment it is n. 80. That all Judgments appertain to the King and Lords and not to them but when out of especial grace some are communicated unto them and therefore they there desire that the Records may be so entred as they may not be made Parties to them So careful they were then not to seem to encroach upon that Power And whereas the Author of that Pamphlet would make a difference upon the Personal presence of the King in those times in the House of Lords That though they might do it then in some Cases it followed not the Lords might do it alone the King not there it is but a fancy of his making a difference where in truth there is none I have proved it before that the Court is the same be the King present or absent The King in Person can judge no man nor dispose of no mans Life or Estate therefore it is a Maxim That the King can do no wrong the reason is because he of himself and by his own particular and personal Authority can give away no mans Right no not any ones pretended Right where a man hath only a possession though without right the King alone in propria Persona can give no Rule in it but it must be tryed in one of his Courts And his Judges and Ministers whom he intrusts with his Regal Power that with which he is himself invested in his Politick Capacity and which he conveys to them making them thereby the Dispensers of his Royal Justice unto all his Subjects they must be
the Persons that do the wrong if any be done It is Curia Regis that doth it and not the King though he sit in Court in Person And so the stile is Videtur Curioe And the Pleas Commonly end with this Declaration of the Party Hoc paratus sum Verificare pro at Curia ordinaverit and when mention is of any thing done contrary to the formes of proceeding Non sic in Curia ista usitatum est is the expression as it is in the President of the 18. E. 1. so much insisted upon by the House of Commons So hath it been in all times the Authority of the Court to which the Law requires obedience When Henry the third would have his Brother Richard Duke of Cornewall confirm the grant of a Mannor to one Waleran a Germain to whom King John had given it and which the Duke of Cornwall said belonged to his Dutchy of Cornwall and had therefore taken possession of it his Answer was That he was willing Curioe Regioe subire Judicium Magnatum Regni that was to say the Judgment of his Peers in Parliament and when the King said angrily to him He should then quit the Kingdom it he would not deliver up the Mannor his reply as Matthew Paris Records it was Quod nec Walerano Jus suum redderet nec sine Judicio Parium fourum e Regno exiret He would neither quit his Right nor the Kingdom but by the Judgement of his Peers Such difference was then made betwixt the Kings Personal Command and an Order of the House of Peers in disposing of mens Rights which makes it very apparent That the Kings Personal presence could not add any thing to or make any alteration in the Jurisdiction of any Court. But enough of this especially considering what is said before upon the same Subject Some other Evasions I find in that Book to elude the Lords Judicature and take off the force of some Presidents which have been cited in maintenance of it which I think are but evasions and work no great effect As that of the Banishment of Alice Perrers or Pierce which that Author will prove to have risen from the Commons and to have been at their Petition because Walsingham a Cloistered Monk saith so contrary to the Record in the Tower where he finds no such thing where certainly it would not have been omitted had it been so that being so essential a part of a Transaction of Parlament that it could not have been left out by the Clerk in the Journal Book And whereas to fortifie Walsingham's Testimony he saith he then lived as if he had been Testis Ocularis I doubt much if he was then born or so young he must have been that he could little take notice of the passages of the time for Baloeus in his Book De Scriptoribus Britanicis saith he flourished in the year 1440. under Henry the sixth when he died we know not but had he died then or soon after he must have been sixty three years old if so be he was in the World when Alice Pierce was banished for the Judgement of Alice Pierce was the first year of Richard the second which was in 1377. So as what he writes could be but by hearsay Which is observed by me onely to shew what weak proofs that Author brings to make good his Assertions and shews the badness of his Cause Not that I think it at all material to the point in question whether or no it was at the request of the Commons that Alice Pierce was judged by the Lords which would not at all evince what he would infer upon it that the House of Lords hath not of it self Cognisance of the Cause of a Commoner nor can judge him for an Offence whether Capital or of a lesser Nature but that the House of Commons making it their desire qualifies them for it Which is a strong Argument of the contrary and proves that the House of Commons doth thereby acknowledge their Judicature For ridiculous it were to think That any Act of that House could create a new Power in the House of Lords which it had not in it self before and which afterwards must cease till it please the House of Commons to give again a new life and being to it As if the House of Lords were but a Property which cannot move of it self to have the Verse said of it Ducitur ut nervis alienis mobile lignum I am sure it hath not been so heretofore nor do I think the House of Commons will own that Authors Opinion And so the Judgment of Hall for the death of the Duke of Glocester that too forsooth must be at the request of the Commons and so be an Act of Parliament and the proof for it is that at the end of the Roll they thank the King for his just Judgment But if the Gentleman would have perused the whole Roll he would easily have been satisfied that the thanks of the Commons related not to Halls condemnation but to the proceedings of the King and House of Peers against Sir William le Scroop Sir Henry Green and Sir John Bussy who had been active for Richard the second and were looked upon as principal Authors of the Miscarriage of his Reign For at the request of the Commons the Lords confirmed a Judgment formerly given against them in some of the Kings Courts not in Parliament and the King declaring That though he took the forfeiture of their Estates according to the Sentence given upon them yet he understood not there should be by it any Infringement of the Statute which said That no mans Estate should be forfeited after his death who had not been convicted whilst living for these persons he said had been so convicted Whereupon the Commons thanked the King for his righteous Judgment and thanked God for giving them such a King This had no relation at all to the business of Hall And in the Record it is an Article by it self of what had passed in Parliament another day So for the proceeding against Gomeniz and Weston that too must be at the request of the Commons and consequently an Act of Parliament Whereas the Commons had onely in general desired that all such as had delivered up any of the Kings Forts and Castles unduely might be called to account for it in that Parliament and be punished for it according to their demerit by the Judgment of the Lords who thereupon commanded the Lievtenant of the Tower to bring before them those two who were already in hold for their several Facts in that kind whom they tryed and condemned and proceeded likewise against several others as Cressingham Spikesworth Trevit and many more guilty of the same Crime whom they convented before them and Sentenced some to death some to other punishments according to the Quality of their Offence Now I do ask if in common sence it can be construed that the Commons were at all Parties in the prosecution
formerly given by the Lords Temporal alone with the Kings Assent is fully ratified and confirmed Which is as strong an Argument to evince and prove the Right of Judicature lodged in that House as is possible And so I shall leave that Pamphleter and now conclude only adding this as mine own sense and wish concerning the Lords exercising this Judicature and in truth what hath been my Observation of their Lordships own Intention and Resolution which themselves have still declared and practised in their execution of it which is this First That though they have an undoubted Right to such an universal unlimited Power of taking cognisance of all Manner of Causes of what nature soever and of the Judging and Determining them if no particular Law do otherwise dispose of those Cases Secondly That their Ancestors have so exercised this Power in all times Ancient and Modern which conveys down that Right to them according to the Maxim usus Consuetudo est Lex Parlamenti what hath been alwayes used by Parliaments is the Law of Parliaments Thirdly That this House of Lords hath ever been careful not to entertain any business which was determinable in Inferior Courts so as charged with doing it they may well take up the Psalmists complaint and say They have laid to our charge things that we knew not and would have us restore what we took not away Though if the Lords had now taken upon them to exercise such an universal Power of Judicature they had medled but with their own that which belongs to them and had done no man wrong had given no just cause of complaint they had but troden in their Ancestors steps continued that in the House of Peers which it hath ever been possessed of And would it not be a shame for them to leave their Posterity in a lower and more curtalled condition then their Predecessors left them to give up a Right and a Priviledge oâ— theirs which as hath been shewed iâ— so necessary to the Publick Justicâ— of the Kingdom But they have noâ— done that which is said of them Anâ— there is no colour for any complaint Why then quarrel with them Why at this time stir a question which lay asleep and for ought we know had never awaked not had else ever been stirred Is this a time to divide to cause needless differences Were it not more desirable nay more necessary to reconcile affections to unite endeavours and to conjoyn the Counsels and Power and Authority of the two Houses of Parliament for composing the differences which already are rather then to create new and especially when no cause is given for it For it may be truly said Here is not Causa litigandi if there be not Animus litigandi Let it be calmly and coolely considered what the Lords have done if they have given any cause of difference if this Apple of Dissention grew with them which hath been maliciously cast in by some of the East India Company and too readily taken up by those whom they had surprised and abused by misinformations Their Lordships have now only done Right to a poor man that was oppressed to ruine by potent Adversaries who had done the wrong in a Forreign Countrey and so were no wayes punishable for it here in the ordinary Course of Law nor the poor man any wayes relievable for no part of his Case as hath been shewed was within the Compass of the Common Law Their new devise of a Fiction which is in truth meerly a Fiction in the whole of it without any real foundation in Law Reason or good Conscience as being grounded upon a falshood and yet this Fiction I say such as it is not applicable to Trespasses so as here had been an absolute Failer of Justice if the Lords had not undertaken it And they undertaking it also not of themselves as making it their own Act but upon the Kings earnest Recommendation when his Majesty and Counsel had in vain spent some years in endeavouring to perswade those severe Adversaries of this poor man to make him some reasonable Reparation and they would not Fourthly And notwithstanding all this that their Lordships should be quarrelled with decried misrepresented by Offenders whom they had before them and that even before they had determined any thing concerning them yet the Petition of those Offenders full of Falsities not onely to be received which under Correction and with great respect be it spoken of them who did receive it was a Manifest Breach of Priviledge but to be believed and Votes to be passed thereupon That the Lords had done that which was not agreeable to Law and which tended to deprive the Subject of the benefit of the Law Fifthly Though these things might well provoke their Lordships to vindicate themselves not only by asserting their Right to so great and extensive a Power which they have done upon good grounds and with evincing Argaments but even employing and exercising it in its full latitude And the same Maxim would justifie them in their so doing which the Poet brought to justifie Caesar in his vast undertakings when the Senate by denying him his just demands gave him the occasion and the boldness to make himself Master of all take that which was denied him and all the rest which happily he had else never attempted the Maxim is Omnia dat qui justa negat So quarrelling with the Lords now upon so unjust a ground and denying them such an apparent Right as they had to give Relief to Skinner would plead their excuse to all the World if they should extend their Power as far as their Ancestors ever did But we will hope better things from them and that as the Apostle saith their Moderation shall appear to all men and that no ill usage will make them depart from their resolution of not interposing their Power where the Law can give a remedy nor entertaining any Cause which is properly determinable in Inferior Courts For that certainly however it might be Lawful would not be expedient and good men will onely do that which is expedient as being that which is most acceptable to God and most beneficial to men which Parliaments will I hope ever do It shall be my Prayer they may to which I am sure all good people will say Amen FINIS
Chanceler e ceux Ke tuchent Justices v ley veynent a Justices e ceux Ke tuchent Juerie veynent a Justices de le Juerie Et si les besoings seent si grans v si de graces Ke le Chanceler e ces autres ne le pussent fere sans le Rey dunk Ils les porterunt par lur meins de meine devant le Roy pur saver ent sa volentè Ensique nulle Peticion ne veigne devant le Roy e son Conseil fo rs par les majns des avaunt ditz Chanceler e les autres Chef Ministres Ensike le Rey e sun Consail pussent Sanz charge de autre busoignes entendre a grosses busoignes de sun Reaume e de ses Foreines Terres Thus in English In regard the People who come to the Kings Parliament are oft delayed and disturbed to the great grievance of themselves and of the Court by the multitude of Petitions exhibited before the King of which most could be dispatched by the Chancellor and Justices It is provided That all Petitions that concerne the Seal shall come first to the Chancellor and those that concerne the Exchequer to the Exchequer and those that concerne the Justices or the Law shall come to the Justices and those that concerne the Jewes to the Justices appointed for the Jewes And if the businesses be so great or so of Grace as the Chancellor and the rest can not end them without the King then they shall with their own hands bring them before the King to know his pleasure therein So as no Petition shall come to the King and his Counsel but brought by the Chancellor and those Chiefe Ministers that so the King and his Counsel may without the trouble of other busines attend the great businesses of his Kingdome and of his forrein Dominions This is the Order in which two reasons are expressed for their not receiving particular Petitions one in the beginning the other in the end First the ease of the Petitioners and of the House it self which for their multitudes could not give every one his dispatch and secondly that freed of them it might attend the Publick business of the Kingdome Not for want of Jurisdiction And yet be all manner of businesses so put by No! Great ones and such as need grace and favor are still reserved But take it at the strongest admit they had put all out of their own power yet it will be granted they had power till they did in this manner divest themselves of it It appears they had by the Order it self which mentions such multitudes of Petitions I then aske if such resolution of the House at that time could be binding to perpetuity The Houses of Parliament we know are masters of their own Orders and themselves when they please alter the Orders they have made much less then be they binding to succeeding Parliaments And it is obvious to every man who will either look into the Records of Ancient Parliaments or will but recollect his Memory and call to mind what hath passed in our late Parliaments that in all times the House of Peers hath acted contrary to this Order Taking Cognizanceeven of smaller matters which the ordinary Courts of Justice do every day dispatch And no House of Peers did ever do it less then this which in truth hath not done it at all though it be now so quarrelled with for having relieved one poor man from the oppression of the mighty when no inferior Court could do it And this too the only Cause of this Nature that they have medled with during this whole Parliament which hath lasted so many years and hath had so many Sessions And a Cause particularly recommended unto them by the King who is the Fountaine of all Justice not one taken up by themselves which makes not their Case the worse as it may well be hoped But suppose there had been no Reservation at all in that Order of 8 E. 1. of any Cause or any business but that the King and Lords had at that time bound up themselves absolutely from medling with any of those Petitioners Cases and for the Present waved the exercise of their Jurisdiction in all such matters had this been a Renouncing of their Jurisdiction and quitting it for ever No Court but may upon some particular occasion suspende and wave it's Jurisdiction it doth not therefore follow that it must never make use of it again The Court of Chancery doth sometimes appoint a Tryall at Law of points in a Cause which it might have determined it self if it had pleased And at an other time it will determine things of the same nature The House of Peers may do the same and wave their Jurisdiction when they please It did it 13 R. 2. N. 10. in Changeours Case Adam Changeour So is his Name in the Record though the Exact Abridgement call him John petitions the King and Lords against Sir Robert Knolls Setts forth how owing 2000 l to Sir Robert and his Wife Constance he had let him have Lands to receive the Rent till he was Satisfied his debt That Sir Robert had received more then his money due yet kept the Land so prayes remedy The Answer is indorsed upon the Petition Let a Writ be directed to Sir Robert Knolls to appear in Parliament the Friday after Candlemas next to Answer the things contained in the Petition Upon hearing the business the Lords leave it to be tryed at the Common Law This seemes a stronger President for trying all at Law and not in Parliament then any which the Gentlemen of the House of Commons urged at the Conference For here was an absolute dismission of the Cause and not ad praesens only as was in their Presidents But I believe such wise and knowing men could not but see that this President would not so much have helpt one way as done prejudice to their Case an other way The Prejudice it would have done had been this that themselves by their own shewing had overthrown one of their maine Arguments which was That all Proceedings in cases of Freehold should be by the Kings Writ and that no Writ was ever made Returnble Coram Dominis Spiritualibus et Temporalibus Whereas here had been in their own President mention of a Writ returnable in Parliament which is Tantamount and signifies the same thing But I have in this Discourse given Examples of several others in the same kind where Writs are issued by Order of Parliament returnable in Parliament and many more there are if it were necessary and worth the trouble to set them down And then what had they gotten by telling us That the Lords once would not retaine a Cause which was tryable at Law and would for once wave their Jurisdiction in such Matters When it was shewed to them by multitudes of Presidents That the Lords had most frequently done otherwise at other times in Cases of the same Nature And Presidents in the Affirmative are those that prove
a jurisdiction especially when many in number are produced and some of all times and in every Kings Reign of which the Records can be had which shewes a Continuance of and so an unquestionable Right to such a power One or two or twenty then in the Negative that the Lords did not do so in such and such Cases Nay I say more were the Number equall as many in the Negative as in the Affirmative yet it could not disprove their Jurisdiction It would only shew that their Lordships were free Agents to do it or not do it as they saw Cause But their Jurisdict on remained still enure to do it whensoever they would And when all is done I may say all this is Nihil ad rem and concernes not the point in question which is If the Lords have done well or ill in relieving Skinner against the East-India Company for he was not relievable aâ— the Common Law as hath been shewed And if he had not been relieved there had been a failer of Justice So as there was a necessity of their Lordships acting in that particular to keep up the publick Justice of the Kingdome And all Presidents and all that can be said and urged to shew that the House of Peers ought not to meddle with matters determinable at Law are in truth out of doors and can not concerne this House of Peers which never did it but the contrary For whensoever it appeared that any business before them was proper to be tryed at Law they presently dismissed it Yet since their Right is questioned they must defend it though they gave no Occasion for it having not at all put that Right in execution nor as it may well be presumed by their proceeding hereto ever intending it As to the 6 other Presidents oâ— Petitions Answered in the Parliament of the 14 of E. 2. which the Gentlemen of the House of Commons themselves seemed not to lay so much weight upon The Lords thought they did wisely in it for they were not such as would bear weight to build upon The Lords of that Parliament according to the several natures of the businesses Petitioned for dismissed the Petitioners with several directions Which shewes they took Cognizance of those matters One was directed to take out his Writ novaedisseisinae and an other to bring his action of Trespass the third they send to the Common Law the fourth into the Chancery the fifth they Order to bring his action of debt the sixth who complained of several things to him they gave particular Answers and particular Directions to every point One of which they said pertained not to the King that is to his Laws so they could give no Order in it it was concerning the Resignation of a living which was to be tryed by the Laws of the Church For the other points they disposed them into their proper Channells Was this to be done by a Court that had no Jurisdiction in these matters No rational man can think so But it would be considered that in this Case of Skinners the Lords could give none of those Answers neither sibi perquir at per Breve de Cancellaria not Sequatur ad Legem Communem or tobring this or the other Action For neither Law nor Equity in the Ordinary way of the Inferior Courts could relieve him for the loss of his real Estate in the Indies the Judges said he was not relievable for his House and Island So as none of those Presidents are applicable to the point in question Not that the Law even in the ordinary execution of it provides not for the punishment of all Crimes It declares against and condemns the Fact but can not reach the person to punish him when he hath committed that Fact in a Forrein Country Ubi lex Angliae non currit And the House of Peers hath but helpt the Law to inflict such punishment upon Offenders as by the Law was due to them which otherwise they had escaped And were it but this it sufficiently justifies the Proceedings of the Lords in that particular Case Then as to the Jurisdiction of that House in the generall it will be made as apparent as the Sun at Noone how they have in all times exercised it to the relief of all persons who stood in need of their relief even for things done within the Kingdome Where the Law had provided a remedy they applyed it Some times themselves would take the pains in Cases that deserved it where there was some thing extraordinary to move them to it and when they were at leisure from the more weighty and important Affaires of the Kingdom Some times they would send it down to the Inferior Courts to do it for them and give them Authority for it which they could not have done if they had not had it themselves for Nemo dat id quod non habet as in the Case of certaine Rioters 11 H. 4. N. 38. in the Exact Abridgement Whom they turned over to the Kings Bench and gave those Judges Authority to the end the busines where the Law had not provided there they would not meddle themselves and declared it so That none else neither should presume to meddle As upon the Petition of Martin Chamberlain in that 14 E. 2. p. 409. Who upon the suppression of the Knights Templers desired to be put into the possession of a mannor which the Templers whilest they stood had held of him The Answer is Quod non est Lex ordinata there was no Law ordained in the Case And because the Law had not determined how those Lands should be disposed of the Lords would say nothing to it But will it not be said that this makes good what the Commons objected against the Lords retaining this Cause of Skinners because some parts of it were not determinable in Westminster-Hall Whereas there being no Law concerning those points till there had been one made their Lordships should not have meddled with them As the Lords in that Parliament of E. 2. would do nothing in Chamberlains Case because the Law had not provided for it And as in those two Cases mentioned by the House of Commons That of an Inheritrix Forfeiting by her husbands default where as the Statute of Westminster the second expressed it a Durum est was in the Case And that of the Hospitall of St. Leonards 2 H. 6. N. 37. which had a clear Right to a Corn Rent Yet the Lords could not relieve them but both were faine to have Acts of Parliament This receives a twofold Answer One That there are other Motives in this Case to make the Lords retain it and give Skinner Relief Here is a poor man oppressed by a rich Company with whom he was no waies able to wage Law And that Consideration hath in all times prevailed with that House which is composed of Persons of generous and noble Spirits who can not see poor men oppressed without feeling in their hearts an Inclination and