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lord_n earl_n henry_n northumberland_n 11,343 5 11.8561 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A61556 The grand question, concerning the Bishops right to vote in Parliament in cases capital stated and argued, from the Parliament-rolls, and the history of former times : with an enquiry into their peerage, and the three estates in Parliament. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699. 1680 (1680) Wing S5594; ESTC R19869 81,456 194

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the_o examination_n of_o a_o case_n capital_a what_o the_o importance_n of_o this_o phrase_n of_o full_a parliament_n be_v will_v best_o appear_v by_o the_o use_n of_o it_o in_o the_o record_n of_o that_o time_n 4_o ed._n iii_o n._n 6._o et_fw-la est_fw-la assentu_fw-la &_o accord_v per_fw-la nostre_fw-fr seigneur_fw-fr le_fw-fr roi_fw-fr &_o touz_v les_fw-fr grantz_n en_fw-fr pleyn_n parliament_n where_o it_o be_v agree_v that_o the_o proceeding_n at_o that_o time_n by_o the_o lord_n against_o those_o who_o be_v not_o peer_n shall_v not_o be_v draw_v into_o consequence_n and_o that_o the_o peer_n shall_v be_v charge_v only_o to_o try_v peer_n which_o have_v all_o the_o formality_n of_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n and_o therefore_o all_o the_o estate_n be_v present_a n._n 8._o accord_n est_fw-la per_fw-la nostre_fw-fr seigneur_fw-fr le_fw-fr roi_fw-fr &_o son_n conseil_n en_fw-fr pleyn_n parliament_n which_o be_v a_o act_n of_o pardon_n concern_v those_o who_o follow_v the_o earl_n of_o lancaster_n 5_o ed._n iii_o n._n 10._o we_o have_v the_o particular_a mention_n of_o the_o bishop_n as_o some_o of_o those_o who_o do_v make_v a_o full_a parliament_n accord_n est_fw-la per_fw-la nostre_fw-fr seigneur_fw-fr le_fw-fr roi_fw-fr prelatz_n countess_n baron_n &_o autres_fw-fr grantz_n du_fw-fr roialm_n en_fw-fr pleyn_n parliament_n and_o n._n 17._o en_fw-fr pleyn_n parliament_n si_fw-la prierent_fw-la les_fw-fr prelatz_n countess_n baron_n &_o autres_fw-fr grantz_n de_fw-fr mesme_fw-fr le_fw-fr parliament_n a_o nostre_fw-fr seigneur_fw-fr le_fw-fr roi_fw-fr etc._n etc._n 6_o ed._n iii_o n._n 5._o the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n make_v his_o oration_n en_fw-fr pleyn_n parliament_n which_o be_v explain_v by_o en_fw-fr la_fw-fr presence_n nostre_fw-fr seigneur_fw-fr le_fw-fr roi_fw-fr &_o the_o touz_v les_fw-fr prelatz_n &_o autres_fw-fr grantz_n n._n 9_o si_fw-mi est_fw-la accord_n &_o assentu_fw-la per_fw-la touz_v en_fw-fr pleyn_n parliament_n who_o those_o be_v we_o be_v tell_v before_o in_o the_o same_o number_n viz._n les_fw-fr prelatz_n countess_n baronn_n &_o touz_v les_fw-fr autres_fw-fr somon_n a_o mesme_fw-fr le_fw-fr parliament_n which_o be_v the_o clear_a explication_n of_o full_a parliament_n in_o the_o presence_n of_o all_o those_o who_o be_v summon_v to_o parliament_n from_o whence_o it_o follow_v that_o where_o a_o full_a parliament_n be_v mention_v at_o that_o time_n the_o bishop_n be_v certain_o present_a and_o consequent_o do_v assist_v at_o the_o trial_n of_o thomas_n lord_n berkely_n who_o appear_v before_o the_o king_n in_o full_a parliament_n as_o nich._n de_fw-fr segrave_n do_v 33_o ed._n i._o and_o there_o the_o bishop_n be_v express_o mention_v as_o present_v as_o appear_v by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v before_o concern_v his_o case_n 5_o h._n iu_o henry_n hotspur_n son_n to_o the_o earl_n of_o northumberland_n be_v declare_v a_o traitor_n by_o the_o king_n and_o lord_n in_o full_a parliament_n and_o the_o same_o day_n the_o father_n be_v upon_o examination_n acquit_v of_o treason_n by_o the_o peer_n it_o be_v not_o say_v that_o this_o be_v do_v in_o full_a parliament_n as_o the_o other_o be_v but_o there_o be_v several_a circumstance_n which_o make_v it_o very_o probable_a the_o bishop_n be_v then_o present_a 1._o when_o the_o earl_n of_o northumberland_n take_v his_o oath_n of_o fidelity_n to_o the_o king_n he_o do_v it_o say_v the_o record_n upon_o the_o cross_n of_o the_o archbishop_n which_o be_v to_o be_v carry_v before_o he_o if_o he_o go_v out_o of_o the_o house_n 2._o the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n pray_v the_o king_n that_o forasmuch_o as_o himself_o and_o other_o bishop_n be_v suspect_v to_o be_v in_o piercie_n conspiracy_n that_o the_o earl_n may_v upon_o his_o oath_n declare_v the_o truth_n who_o thereupon_o do_v clear_v they_o all_o which_o show_v that_o the_o archbishop_n be_v then_o present_a in_o the_o house_n and_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n that_o he_o be_v present_a we_o may_v just_o suppose_v the_o other_o bishop_n to_o have_v be_v so_o too_o 3._o the_o earl_n of_o northumberland_n beseech_v the_o lord_n and_o earl_n and_o commoner_n that_o if_o he_o break_v this_o oath_n they_o will_v intercede_v no_o more_o with_o the_o king_n for_o he_o now_o the_o better_a to_o understand_v this_o we_o be_v to_o consider_v that_o h._n iu._n take_v notice_n in_o his_o declaration_n upon_o the_o rebellion_n of_o sir_n henry_n piercy_n 366._o that_o the_o earl_n of_o northumberland_n and_o his_o son_n give_v out_o that_o they_o can_v have_v no_o access_n to_o the_o king_n but_o by_o the_o mediation_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o earl_n and_o therefore_o do_v beseech_v they_o to_o intercede_v with_o the_o king_n for_o they_o it_o be_v not_o then_o probable_a that_o those_o shall_v be_v now_o leave_v out_o when_o the_o word_n be_v large_a enough_o to_o comprehend_v they_o and_o no_o one_o circumstance_n be_v bring_v to_o exclude_v they_o for_o that_o general_a one_o of_o their_o not_o be_v peer_n will_v be_v full_o refute_v afterward_o but_o that_o which_o put_v this_o out_o of_o dispute_n be_v 4._o that_o the_o record_n say_v n._n 17._o the_o commons_o not_o only_o give_v the_o king_n thank_v for_o the_o pardon_n of_o the_o earl_n of_o northumberland_n but_o the_o lord_n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a in_o these_o remarkable_a word_n et_fw-la au●i_fw-la mesme_n les_fw-fr cones_n remercierment_n les_fw-fr signior_n espirituelx_fw-fr &_o temporelx_fw-fr de_fw-fr lour_v bon_fw-fr &_o droiturell_n judgement_n quill_n avoient_fw-fr fait_fw-fr come_v peer_n du_fw-ge parliament_n and_o likewise_o the_o commons_o give_v thanks_o to_o the_o lord_n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a for_o the_o good_a and_o right_a judgement_n which_o they_o have_v give_v in_o this_o case_n as_o peer_n of_o parliament_n which_o be_v a_o clear_a precedent_n of_o the_o bishop_n judge_v in_o a_o capital_a case_n and_o that_o as_o peer_n 2_o h._n vi_o n._n 9_o john_n lord_n talbot_n have_v accuse_v james_n boteler_n earl_n of_o ormond_n of_o sundry_a treason_n before_o the_o king_n and_o his_o great_a council_n and_o after_o before_o john_n duke_n of_o bedford_n constable_n of_o england_n the_o king_n take_v advice_n of_o his_o parliament_n about_o it_o and_o than_o it_o be_v express_o say_v in_o the_o record_n de_fw-fr avisamento_fw-la &_o assensit_fw-la dominorum_fw-la spiritualium_fw-la &_o temporalium_fw-la ac_fw-la communitatis_fw-la regni_fw-la anglie_o in_o eodem_fw-la parlamento_n existent_a '_o facta_fw-la fuit_fw-la quedam_fw-la abolitio_fw-la delationis_fw-la nuntiationis_fw-la &_o detectionis_fw-la predict_v etc._n etc._n here_o the_o king_n advise_v with_o the_o lord_n spiritual_a in_o a_o accusation_n of_o treason_n and_o therefore_o they_o must_v be_v present_a in_o the_o debate_n concern_v it_o i_o leave_v now_o any_o considerate_a person_n to_o judge_v impartial_o on_o which_o side_n the_o right_n lie_v for_o on_o the_o one_o side_n 1._o there_o be_v the_o constitution_n of_o clarendon_n interpret_v by_o h._n ii_o and_o the_o bishop_n at_o northampton_n 2._o a_o protestation_n of_o their_o right_n enter_v and_o allow_v by_o king_n lord_n and_o commons_o 11_o r._n ii_o 3._o a_o reverse_v of_o judgement_n own_v by_o parliament_n for_o want_n of_o their_o presence_n 21_o r._n ii_o 4._o a_o preserve_v of_o their_o right_n by_o proxy_n when_o they_o think_v their_o personal_a attendance_n contrary_a to_o the_o canon_n 5._o a_o bar_n to_o a_o total_a discontinuance_n of_o their_o personal_a right_n by_o a_o allow_a precedent_n 28_o h._n vi_o 6._o a_o restore_a they_o to_o their_o former_a right_n by_o remove_v of_o the_o force_n of_o the_o canon-law_n upon_o the_o reformation_n 7._o no_o one_o law_n or_o precedent_n produce_v for_o exclude_v they_o even_o in_o those_o time_n when_o they_o think_v the_o canon_n do_v forbid_v their_o presence_n 8._o several_a precedent_n upon_o record_n wherein_o they_o be_v present_a at_o examination_n and_o debate_n about_o case_n capital_a on_o the_o other_o side_n 1._o the_o precedent_n be_v general_n and_o negative_a 2._o or_o relate_v to_o such_o case_n wherein_o they_o be_v allow_v to_o be_v present_a 3._o or_o of_o judgement_n condemn_v as_o erroneous_a by_o parliament_n 4._o or_o of_o voluntary_a withdraw_n with_o protestation_n of_o their_o right_n and_o make_v of_o proxy_n 5._o or_o of_o not_o be_v present_a at_o the_o pass_n of_o judgement_n out_o of_o regard_n to_o the_o canon-law_n and_o now_o on_o which_o side_n the_o right_a lie_n let_v the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n himself_o judge_v chap._n iu._n the_o peerage_n of_o the_o bishop_n clear_v how_o far_o they_o make_v a_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n objection_n against_o it_o answer_v there_o remain_v two_o thing_n to_o be_v consider_v which_o be_v put_v in_o by_o way_n of_o postscript_n by_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n the_o one_o concern_v the_o peerage_n of_o the_o bishop_n the_o other_o their_o be_v a_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n 1._o
to_o conclude_v this_o matter_n whether_o the_o act_n of_o parliament_n which_o contain_v this_o declaration_n of_o the_o peerage_n of_o bishop_n and_o their_o jurisdiction_n in_o case_n of_o treason_n be_v sufficient_o repeal_v or_o not_o this_o solemn_a assertion_n of_o it_o in_o two_o several_a parliament_n together_o with_o the_o petition_n of_o the_o commons_o mention_v before_o be_v a_o most_o clear_a evidence_n that_o in_o the_o general_a opinion_n of_o the_o king_n lord_n and_o commons_o this_o jurisdiction_n do_v of_o right_o belong_v to_o the_o bishop_n and_o i_o be_o sure_a they_o be_v a_o demonstration_n against_o the_o author_n of_o the_o peerage_n his_o assertion_n of_o a_o negative_a custom_n ancient_a as_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o nation_n that_o prelate_n shall_v not_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n in_o capital_a case_n for_o have_v this_o be_v a_o clear_a and_o undoubted_a custom_n from_o the_o first_o original_n of_o this_o nation_n it_o be_v moral_o impossible_a it_o can_v have_v enter_v into_o the_o mind_n of_o two_o parliament_n solemn_o to_o have_v raise_v this_o doubt_n whether_o a_o judgement_n give_v in_o a_o case_n of_o treason_n by_o the_o temporal_a lord_n without_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o bishop_n be_v valid_a and_o to_o have_v determine_v that_o it_o be_v not_o when_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o manner_n of_o reason_n to_o imagine_v that_o the_o bishop_n ever_o have_v any_o jurisdiction_n in_o such_o case_n nay_o when_o there_o be_v a_o immemorial_n custom_n and_o usage_n to_o the_o contrary_a namely_o that_o the_o temporal_a lord_n have_v in_o all_o time_n exercise_v this_o jurisdiction_n alone_o and_o the_o bishop_n have_v be_v exclude_v from_o any_o share_n in_o it_o and_o in_o the_o apology_n of_o adam_n d'orleton_n bishop_n of_o hereford_n and_o after_o of_o winchester_n for_o his_o imprison_a r._n de_fw-fr baldock_n a_o great_a confident_a of_o hugh_n despencer_n he_o declare_v that_o the_o reason_n why_o he_o be_v carry_v to_o newgate_n be_v through_o the_o violence_n of_o the_o people_n although_o say_v he_o the_o parliament_n then_o sit_v there_o be_v no_o cause_n of_o fear_n but_o justice_n will_v be_v do_v his_o word_n be_v domino_fw-la rege_fw-la praelatis_fw-la comitibus_fw-la ac_fw-la aliis_fw-la terrae_fw-la optimatibus_fw-la lundoniae_n tunc_fw-la congregatis_fw-la &_o praesentibus_fw-la pro_fw-la justitia_fw-la ibidem_fw-la in_o parlamento_n convocatis_fw-la omnibus_fw-la exhibenda_fw-la which_o show_v that_o the_o prelate_n than_o do_v sit_v in_o matter_n of_o justice_n in_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n and_o in_o case_n capital_a for_o this_o r._n de_fw-la baldock_n be_v arraign_v at_o hereford_n for_o the_o same_o crime_n that_o hugh_n despencer_n be_v but_o the_o main_a strength_n of_o the_o cause_n be_v suppose_v to_o lie_v in_o the_o precedent_n produce_v out_o of_o the_o roll_n of_o parliament_n from_o the_o 4_o edw._n iii_o to_o the_o 38_o h._n vi_o the_o force_n of_o these_o precedent_n will_v be_v better_o understand_v if_o we_o consider_v these_o thing_n i._o that_o many_o of_o they_o be_v mere_a negative_a testimony_n so_o 4_o edw._n iii_o at_o the_o trial_n of_o roger_n mortimer_n 6._o it_o be_v say_v the_o earl_n baron_n and_o peer_n of_o the_o realm_n be_v present_a therefore_o the_o bishop_n be_v not_o 5_o edw._n iii_o only_o the_o great_a one_o return_v 9_o therefore_o the_o bishop_n do_v not_o so_o in_o the_o case_n of_o sir_n john_n grey_n from_o whence_o he_o infer_v that_o the_o bishop_n be_v not_o to_o judge_v so_o much_o as_o of_o a_o battery_n 10._o 25_o edw._n iii_o in_o sir_n william_n thorp_n case_n the_o grantz_n de_fw-fr parliament_n be_v ask_v their_o advice_n therefore_o not_o the_o bishop_n 13._o 1_o r._n ii_o in_o the_o case_n of_o weston_n and_o gomenitz_n the_o bishop_n not_o mention_v but_o other_o lord_n baron_n and_o banneret_n 16._o sir_n ralph_n the_o ferrer_n case_n 4_o r._n ii_o the_o bishop_n not_o present_a because_o not_o comprise_v under_o les_fw-fr signior_n de_fw-fr parliament_n the_o like_a in_o sir_n john_n oldcastle_n '_o s_o case_n 5_o h._n v._o 37._o the_o question_n he_o say_v be_v whether_o bishop_n be_v comprehend_v under_o les_fw-fr signior_n de_fw-fr cest_fw-fr present_a parliament_n in_o the_o earl_n of_o devonshire_n '_o s_o case_n 31_o h._n vi_o the_o strength_n lie_v in_o this_o 51._o that_o the_o peer_n be_v only_o mention_v and_o he_o suppose_v no_o man_n will_v say_v the_o bishop_n be_v his_o peer_n or_o lord_n of_o the_o realm_n so_o that_o here_o be_v eight_o precedent_n that_o be_v no_o more_o than_o negative_a testimony_n concern_v which_o in_o general_a 91._o the_o author_n of_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n assert_v have_v a_o good_a observation_n viz._n that_o one_o or_o two_o or_o twenty_o precedent_n in_o the_o negative_a nay_o i_o say_v more_o be_v the_o number_n equal_a as_o many_o in_o the_o negative_a as_o in_o the_o affirmative_a yet_o it_o can_v not_o disprove_v their_o jurisdiction_n it_o will_v only_o show_v their_o lordship_n be_v free_a agent_n to_o do_v it_o or_o not_o to_o do_v it_o as_o they_o see_v cause_n but_o their_o jurisdiction_n remain_v entire_a still_o to_o do_v it_o whensoever_o they_o will_v so_o i_o say_v here_o suppose_v that_o the_o spiritual_a lord_n be_v not_o present_a in_o these_o case_n it_o only_o show_v that_o they_o be_v free_a agent_n and_o may_v withdraw_v at_o some_o time_n and_o be_v present_a at_o other_o which_o can_v overthrow_v their_o right_n for_o these_o reason_n 1._o several_a of_o his_o negative_a precedent_n if_o they_o prove_v any_o thing_n prove_v the_o bishop_n be_v not_o there_o when_o he_o confess_v they_o may_v have_v be_v there_o as_o 1._o in_o case_n of_o misdemeanour_n at_o the_o trial_n of_o sir_n john_n de_fw-fr lee_n 11._o 42_o ed._n iii_o be_v charge_v with_o several_a misdemeanour_n the_o record_n say_v the_o prelate_n be_v present_a 50_o edw._n iii_o 12._o several_a person_n be_v accuse_v by_o the_o commons_o for_o misdemeanour_n and_o the_o bishop_n he_o confess_v be_v present_a as_o rich_a lion_n john_n lord_n latimer_n william_n ellis_n john_n peecher_n lord_n john_n nevil_n at_o all_o these_o trial_n the_o bishop_n say_v he_o be_v present_a and_o no_o body_n say_v but_o they_o may_v so_o in_o the_o case_n of_o alice_n perrer_n 14._o 50_o edw._n iii_o the_o record_n say_v the_o prelate_n be_v present_a and_o give_v judgement_n as_o to_o banishment_n and_o forfeiture_n of_o her_o estate_n 18._o 10_o r._n ii_o mich._n de_fw-fr la_fw-fr pool_n lord_n chancellor_n be_v accuse_v by_o the_o commons_o for_o several_a misdemeanour_n before_o the_o king_n prelate_n and_o the_o lord_n here_o he_o yield_v the_o prelate_n be_v judge_n of_o misdemeanour_n together_o with_o other_o lord_n and_o yet_o if_o several_a of_o his_o negative_a precedent_n do_v prove_v any_o thing_n they_o prove_v too_o much_o viz._n that_o the_o bishop_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v present_a at_o the_o trial_n of_o misdemeanour_n for_o he_o say_v the_o bishop_n be_v not_o present_a at_o the_o trial_n of_o weston_n and_o gomenitz_n 1_o r._n ii_o nor_o at_o the_o trial_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o norwich_n 7_o r._n ii_o nor_o at_o such_o judgement_n as_o that_o of_o sir_n william_n de_fw-fr thorp_n 25_o edw._n iii_o 10._o who_o be_v condemn_v for_o bribery_n and_o yet_o he_o yield_v they_o be_v at_o the_o trial_n of_o mich._n de_fw-fr la_fw-fr pool_n 10_o r._n ii_o but_o if_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v present_a at_o those_o of_o 25_o ed._n iii_o and_o 1_o r._n ii_o and_o 7_o r._n ii_o neither_o ought_v they_o to_o have_v be_v present_a at_o the_o trial_n of_o mich._n de_fw-fr la_fw-fr pool_n either_o therefore_o his_o argument_n do_v not_o prove_v they_o be_v not_o present_a at_o the_o former_a be_v only_o from_o general_a word_n or_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v be_v present_a at_o the_o latter_a which_o he_o confess_v they_o be_v this_o will_v best_o appear_v by_o compare_v the_o case_n together_o 1_o r._n ii_o the_o commons_o deliver_v in_o a_o schedule_n to_o the_o lord_n of_o their_o demand_n before_o they_o will_v proceed_v to_o a_o subsidy_n among_o which_o one_o be_v that_o all_o such_o who_o without_o cause_n have_v lose_v or_o give_v up_o any_o castle_n or_o town_n or_o fortress_n to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o the_o king_n or_o damage_n of_o the_o people_n may_v be_v put_v to_o their_o answer_n before_o the_o lord_n and_o commons_o that_o parliament_n here_o be_v no_o particular_a impeachment_n of_o these_o person_n but_o upon_o this_o the_o lord_n send_v for_o these_o two_o person_n who_o be_v prisoner_n in_o the_o tower_n upon_o this_o account_n and_o the_o charge_n against_o they_o be_v deliver_v two_o town_n in_o flanders_n without_o commission_n weston_n make_v a_o long_a and_o plausible_a defence_n to_o which_o no_o
this_o as_o a_o sufficient_a precedent_n in_o a_o case_n of_o great_a moment_n about_o commitment_n upon_o a_o general_a accusation_n but_o there_o be_v not_o any_o irregularity_n express_v or_o intimate_v in_o the_o bishop_n appear_v and_o judge_v as_o other_o lord_n do_v and_o the_o judgement_n be_v not_o reverse_v because_o of_o their_o be_v there_o as_o we_o have_v show_v other_o have_v be_v for_o their_o be_v absent_a v._n none_o of_o all_o his_o precedent_n do_v prove_v that_o the_o bishop_n be_v ever_o exclude_v from_o sit_v by_o any_o vote_n of_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n or_o commons_o that_o they_o may_v voluntary_o withdraw_v we_o deny_v not_o or_o not_o be_v present_a at_o give_v of_o judgement_n out_o of_o regard_n to_o the_o canon_n which_o be_v all_o that_o be_v prove_v by_o the_o precedent_n of_o john_n hall_n 1_o h._n iu_o of_o the_o earl_n of_o kent_n 32._o huntingdon_n 34._o etc._n etc._n 2_o h._n iu_o of_o sir_n john_n oldcastle_n 5_o h._n v._o and_o of_o sir_n john_n mortimer_n 2_o h._n vi_o 37._o and_o this_o we_o have_v make_v appear_v be_v do_v by_o they_o out_o of_o regard_n to_o the_o canon-law_n 39_o the_o force_n of_o which_o be_v take_v away_o by_o the_o reformation_n the_o bishop_n be_v thereby_o restore_v to_o their_o just_a parliamentary_a right_n neither_o can_v any_o disusage_n be_v a_o bar_n to_o that_o right_n since_o the_o ground_n of_o that_o disusage_n be_v something_o than_o suppose_v to_o be_v in_o force_n which_o be_v now_o remove_v by_o the_o reformation_n and_o i_o fear_v if_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v be_v sufficient_a to_o overthrow_v the_o bishop_n right_o much_o strong_a of_o the_o same_o kind_n may_v be_v use_v to_o overthrow_v the_o king_n supremacy_n in_o mattter_n of_o religion_n so_o great_a care_n ought_v man_n to_o have_v lest_o under_o the_o colour_n of_o a_o mighty_a zeal_n against_o popery_n they_o do_v overthrow_v the_o very_a principle_n of_o our_o reformation_n vi_o there_o be_v precedent_n upon_o record_n in_o the_o roll_n of_o parliament_n which_o be_v not_o mention_v by_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n which_o do_v prove_v that_o the_o bishop_n be_v present_a at_o the_o examination_n of_o treason_n and_o capital_a offence_n in_o parliament_n and_o that_o within_o the_o time_n 51._o wherein_o he_o pretend_v to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o all_o the_o trial_n record_v in_o the_o roll_n which_o show_v how_o easy_o man_n pass_v by_o those_o thing_n they_o have_v no_o mind_n to_o see_v i_o begin_v with_o 4_o ed._n iii_o and_o i_o must_v do_v he_o that_o right_a as_o to_o say_v that_o he_o do_v not_o only_o mention_v the_o trial_n of_o roger_n mortimer_n 6._o but_o of_o sir_n simon_n bereford_n and_o other_o who_o be_v accuse_v and_o try_v in_o parliament_n but_o pretend_v that_o the_o roll_n of_o that_o parliament_n be_v so_o deface_v that_o it_o can_v be_v read_v he_o run_v to_o that_o of_o 28_o ed._n iii_o and_o so_o gentle_o pass_v over_o all_o the_o other_o trial_n which_o be_v in_o the_o record_n and_o be_v more_o plain_a and_o express_v as_o to_o this_o matter_n among_o the_o article_n against_o roger_n mortimer_n ed._n l_o of_o march_n one_o be_v that_o after_o he_o know_v certain_o the_o death_n of_o edw._n ii_o he_o make_v use_v of_o instrument_n to_o persuade_v edward_n earl_n of_o kent_n that_o king_n brother_n that_o he_o be_v still_o live_v and_o so_o draw_v he_o into_o a_o design_n for_o his_o rescue_n for_o which_o he_o be_v attaint_v at_o winchester_n and_o there_o suffer_v death_n for_o it_o among_o these_o instrument_n the_o chief_a be_v one_o mautravers_n who_o for_o that_o reason_n be_v attaint_v this_o parliament_n and_o the_o word_n of_o the_o record_n be_v 3._o trestouz_n les_fw-fr pieres_n count_n &_o baron_n assemblez_fw-fr a_fw-fr cest_fw-fr parliament_n a_o west_n si_fw-fr ont_fw-fr examine_v estraitement_fw-fr &_o sur_fw-fr ce_fw-fr sont_fw-fr assentuz_fw-fr &_o accordez_fw-fr que_fw-fr john_n mautravers_n si_fw-la est_fw-la culpable_a de_fw-fr la_fw-fr mort_fw-fr esmon_n count_n de_fw-fr kent_n etc._n etc._n all_o the_o peer_n count_n and_o baron_n assemble_v in_o this_o present_a parliament_n upon_o strict_a examination_n do_v assent_n and_o agree_v that_o john_n mautravers_n be_v guilty_a of_o the_o death_n of_o edmund_n earl_n of_o kent_n here_o we_o have_v the_o strict_a examination_n of_o a_o capital_a case_n in_o parliament_n and_o all_o the_o peer_n be_v say_v to_o be_v present_a at_o it_o it_o be_v use_v as_o a_o argument_n by_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n that_o in_o the_o case_n of_o roger_n mortimer_n 7._o the_o bishop_n can_v not_o be_v comprise_v under_o the_o general_a name_n of_o peer_n since_o the_o baron_n be_v first_o in_o rank_n but_o here_o the_o peer_n be_v mention_v before_o count_n and_o baron_n and_o it_o will_v be_v impossible_a for_o he_o to_o assign_v any_o other_o peer_n at_o that_o time_n that_o be_v name_v before_o they_o but_o the_o prelate_n who_o frequent_o be_v so_o put_v in_o the_o record_n of_o that_o time_n as_o in_o the_o same_o parliament_n n._n 12._o prelatz_n countess_n baron_n n._n 13._o et_fw-la per_fw-la assent_n des_fw-fr ditz_fw-fr prelatz_n countess_n baron_n so_o again_o n._n 14._o 15._o 17._o 24._o 25._o but_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n say_v 7._o they_o can_v pretend_v to_o be_v peer_n of_o the_o realm_n let_v he_o name_v then_o other_o peer_n of_o the_o realm_n at_o that_o time_n who_o be_v neither_o count_n nor_o baron_n and_o be_v before_o they_o but_o if_o we_o be_v to_o judge_v who_o be_v peer_n of_o the_o realm_n by_o the_o record_n of_o parliament_n i_o do_v not_o question_v but_o i_o shall_v make_v it_o evident_a that_o the_o bishop_n be_v so_o esteem_v and_o that_o some_o person_n who_o pretend_v to_o great_a skill_n in_o record_n either_o have_v not_o search_v so_o diligent_o or_o have_v not_o observe_v so_o careful_o about_o this_o matter_n as_o they_o may_v have_v do_v but_o of_o this_o afterward_o in_o the_o same_o parliament_n judgement_n be_v pass_v upon_o boges_n de_fw-fr boyons_fw-fr john_n deveril_n thomas_n gurnay_n william_n ocle_n but_o be_v by_o way_n of_o attainder_n and_o not_o upon_o particular_a examination_n which_o be_v mention_v in_o the_o case_n of_o mautravers_n i_o pass_v they_o over_o in_o the_o plea_n of_o the_o crown_n hold_v before_o the_o king_n in_o this_o parliament_n we_o find_v another_o case_n which_o relate_v to_o our_o present_a debate_n viz._n of_o thomas_n lord_n berkely_n and_o knight_n who_o be_v arraign_v for_o the_o death_n of_o king_n ed._n ii_o who_o come_v before_o the_o king_n in_o pleno_fw-la parlamento_n in_o full_a parliament_n and_o there_o plead_v not_o guilty_a and_o declare_v he_o be_v ready_a to_o clear_v himself_o as_o the_o king_n court_n shall_v advise_v then_o they_o proceed_v to_o particular_a examination_n of_o he_o how_o he_o can_v acquitt_v himself_o be_v lord_n of_o the_o castle_n where_o the_o king_n be_v murder_v he_o be_v commit_v to_o his_o custody_n and_o john_n matravers_n he_o plead_v for_o himself_o that_o he_o be_v then_o sick_a at_o bradley_n and_o know_v nothing_o of_o it_o they_o charge_v he_o that_o the_o keeper_n of_o the_o castle_n be_v of_o his_o own_o appoint_v and_o therefore_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o answer_v for_o they_o he_o answer_v that_o they_o with_o matravers_n have_v receive_v the_o king_n into_o their_o custody_n he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v blame_v for_o what_o they_o do_v and_o for_o this_o he_o put_v himself_o upon_o his_o country_n at_o the_o day_n appoint_v for_o his_o trial_n he_o appear_v again_o coram_fw-la domino_fw-la rege_fw-la in_o pleno_fw-la parlamento_n and_o the_o jury_n return_v he_o not_o guilty_a but_o because_o he_o appoint_v gurney_n and_o ocle_n to_o keep_v his_o castle_n of_o berkely_n by_o who_o the_o king_n be_v murder_v the_o king_n appoint_v he_o a_o day_n the_o next_o parliament_n to_o hear_v his_o sentence_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n he_o be_v commit_v to_o the_o custody_n of_o ralph_n nevil_n steward_n of_o the_o king_n house_n in_o the_o next_o parliament_n 5_o edw._n iii_o n._n 18._o the_o prelate_n earl_n and_o baron_n petition_v the_o king_n that_o he_o may_v be_v discharge_v of_o his_o mainprisor_n the_o which_o be_v grant_v and_o a_o far_a day_n give_v he_o to_o appear_v next_o parliament_n but_o we_o read_v no_o more_o of_o he_o till_o the_o summon_v he_o have_v 14_o ed._n iii_o as_o one_o of_o the_o lord_n in_o parliament_n the_o great_a force_n of_o this_o precedent_n lie_v in_o understanding_n what_o be_v mean_v by_o appear_v before_o the_o king_n in_o full_a parliament_n if_o under_o this_o the_o bishop_n be_v comprehend_v than_o this_o will_v be_v a_o uncontrollable_a precedent_n of_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o
and_o fundamental_a policy_n of_o that_o be_v the_o same_o with_o england_n and_o he_o that_o believe_v the_o subject_n make_v the_o three_o estate_n there_o can_v never_o believe_v the_o king_n to_o be_v one_o of_o they_o here_o the_o next_o authority_n be_v of_o king_n charles_n i._o 100_o in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o 19_o proposition_n june_n 2._o 1642._o wherein_o he_o tell_v the_o two_o house_n that_o neither_o one_o estate_n shall_v transact_v what_o be_v proper_a for_o two_o nor_o two_o what_o be_v proper_a for_o three_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o penner_n of_o that_o answer_n be_v so_o intent_n upon_o the_o main_a business_n viz._n that_o the_o two_o house_n can_v do_v nothing_o without_o the_o king_n that_o he_o do_v not_o go_v about_o to_o dispute_v this_o matter_n with_o they_o whether_o the_o king_n be_v one_o of_o the_o three_o estate_n or_o not_o but_o take_v their_o supposition_n for_o grant_v he_o show_v that_o they_o can_v have_v no_o authority_n to_o act_v without_o the_o king_n concurrence_n but_o the_o unwary_a concession_n in_o that_o answer_n be_v find_v of_o dangerous_a consequence_n afterward_o when_o the_o king_n enemy_n frame_v the_o political_a catechism_n out_o of_o they_o which_o be_v late_o reprint_v no_o doubt_n for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o people_n in_o 2_o h._n iu_o n._n 32._o 101._o he_o make_v the_o house_n of_o commons_o to_o declare_v to_o the_o king_n and_o lord_n that_o the_o three_o estate_n of_o the_o parliament_n be_v the_o king_n the_o lord_n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a whereas_o the_o truth_n of_o that_o matter_n be_v this_o a_o difference_n have_v happen_v in_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n between_o the_o earl_n of_o rutland_n and_o lord_n fitz-walter_n whereupon_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o go_v up_o to_o the_o king_n and_o the_o lord_n and_o have_v it_o seem_v a_o eloquent_a speaker_n who_o venture_v upon_o dangerous_a metaphor_n he_o make_v bold_a with_o the_o similitude_n of_o the_o trinity_n because_o that_o will_v help_v he_o to_o persuade_v they_o to_o unity_n but_o if_o he_o have_v leave_v the_o king_n out_o he_o may_v have_v be_v suspect_v to_o have_v set_v up_o a_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o three_o estate_n therefore_o lest_o he_o shall_v lose_v his_o similitude_n which_o go_v a_o great_a way_n with_o a_o eloquent_a man_n he_o strain_v another_o point_n and_o draw_v the_o king_n into_o his_o trinity_n and_o be_v such_o a_o expression_n to_o be_v mention_v in_o comparison_n with_o the_o express_a declaration_n but_o the_o year_n before_o 1_o h._n iu_o of_o both_o house_n concern_v the_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n next_o to_o this_o similitude_n that_o of_o stephen_n gardiner_n ought_v to_o be_v mention_v who_o compare_v faith_n hope_n and_o charity_n concur_v to_o justification_n to_o the_o concurrence_n of_o the_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n i.e._n the_o king_n and_o two_o house_n to_o the_o make_n of_o law_n but_o i_o wonder_v the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n who_o express_v so_o much_o dislike_n of_o his_o divinity_n will_v take_v his_o judgement_n in_o politic_n but_o this_o notion_n of_o make_v the_o king_n one_o of_o the_o three_o estate_n how_o valuable_a soever_o it_o be_v to_o some_o man_n be_v it_o seem_v only_o to_o be_v meet_v with_o in_o some_o grave_a ancient_a similitude_n but_o of_o what_o authority_n these_o be_v against_o the_o constant_a sense_n of_o parliament_n so_o full_o declare_v i_o leave_v any_o man_n of_o understanding_n to_o judge_v for_o the_o judgement_n of_o eminent_a lawyer_n 103._o he_o quote_v but_o one_o in_o king_n james_n his_o time_n viz._n finch_n in_o his_o book_n of_o law_n l._n 2._o ch_n 1._o who_o do_v indeed_o in_o the_o word_n quote_v by_o he_o make_v the_o king_n lord_n and_o commons_o to_o be_v the_o three_o estate_n but_o i_o can_v hardly_o imagine_v how_o a_o learned_a lawyer_n can_v fall_v into_o such_o a_o gross_a mistake_n unless_o the_o modus_fw-la tenendi_fw-la parlamentum_fw-la shall_v give_v the_o occasion_n to_o it_o which_o be_v account_v no_o blind_a ms._n in_o those_o day_n but_o a_o very_a great_a treasure_n as_o appear_v by_o sir_n e._n coke_n who_o cite_v it_o on_o all_o occasion_n and_o very_o few_o lawyer_n have_v the_o judgement_n in_o antiquity_n which_o mr._n selden_n have_v who_o first_o discover_v the_o just_a age_n and_o value_n of_o that_o ms._n this_o author_n indeed_o towards_o the_o conclusion_n of_o his_o treatise_n make_v the_o king_n the_o first_o of_o the_o estate_n but_o then_o he_o make_v six_o estate_n in_o parliament_n or_o degree_n as_o he_o call_v they_o and_o deliver_v this_o for_o good_a doctrine_n at_o the_o very_a end_n of_o his_o treatise_n that_o if_o any_o one_o of_o all_o these_o be_v summon_v and_o do_v not_o appear_v yet_o with_o he_o it_o be_v notwithstanding_o a_o full_a parliament_n nay_o he_o express_o say_v the_o king_n may_v hold_v a_o parliament_n without_o a_o house_n of_o lord_n but_o there_o be_v so_o many_o other_o such_o position_n discover_v by_o other_o in_o that_o treatise_n that_o i_o need_v to_o say_v no_o more_o of_o it_o and_o as_o to_o this_o point_n of_o the_o king_n be_v be_v one_o of_o the_o estate_n in_o parliament_n sir_n ed._n coke_n who_o otherwise_o too_o much_o admire_v that_o treatise_n declare_v against_o it_o in_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o his_o treatise_n of_o the_o parliament_n this_o court_n say_v he_o consist_v of_o the_o king_n majesty_n sit_v there_o as_o in_o his_o royal_a politic_a capacity_n and_o of_o the_o three_o estate_n of_o the_o realm_n viz._n of_o the_o lord_n spiritual_a archbishop_n and_o bishop_n the_o lord_n temporal_a and_o the_o commons_o of_o the_o realm_n and_o however_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n may_v slight_v mr._n selden_n judgement_n in_o this_o matter_n 86._o yet_o these_o two_o may_v be_v sufficient_a to_o weigh_v down_o the_o scale_n against_o any_o one_o lawyer_n be_v authority_n to_o the_o contrary_a especial_o since_o they_o be_v never_o suspect_v i_o dare_v say_v for_o any_o partiality_n towards_o the_o clergy_n 3._o but_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n think_v to_o carry_v this_o point_n by_o mere_a strength_n of_o reason_n we_o must_v therefore_o diligent_o consider_v the_o force_n of_o his_o argument_n 1._o if_o bishop_n be_v one_o of_o the_o estate_n in_o parliament_n 89._o reason_n will_v they_o shall_v vote_n by_o themselves_o separately_z from_o other_z lord_n which_o will_v make_v another_o estate_n but_o they_o do_v not_o only_o not_o vote_n apart_o by_o themselves_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o they_o together_o but_o that_o body_n be_v divide_v and_o separate_v within_o itself_o one_o part_n from_o another_o if_o both_o house_n ever_o sit_v together_o as_o some_o imagine_v and_o as_o they_o do_v in_o a_o neighbour_n kingdom_n this_o way_n of_o reason_v will_v make_v but_o one_o estate_n in_o parliament_n all_o that_o time_n but_o to_o give_v a_o clear_a answer_n to_o this_o objection_n i_o distinguish_v two_o thing_n in_o the_o bishop_n their_o spiritual_a capacity_n by_o which_o they_o represent_v and_o their_o civil_a capacity_n as_o baron_n in_o which_o they_o vote_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o house_n for_o the_o manner_n of_o give_v their_o vote_n be_v a_o thing_n under_o the_o regulation_n of_o the_o house_n and_o depend_v upon_o custom_n but_o their_o spiritual_a capacity_n as_o bishop_n in_o which_o they_o represent_v do_v not_o and_o the_o reason_n of_o their_o sit_v together_o with_o other_o lord_n be_v upon_o the_o account_n of_o their_o writ_n of_o summons_n which_o as_o mr._n selden_n confess_v ever_o since_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o edw._n iii_o have_v be_v for_o the_o bishop_n cum_fw-la caeteris_fw-la prelatis_fw-la magnatibus_fw-la &_o proceribus_fw-la colloquium_fw-la habere_fw-la &_o tractatum_fw-la and_o therefore_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o sit_v together_o in_o the_o same_o place_n with_o the_o temporal_a lord_n or_o else_o they_o can_v advise_v and_o confer_v together_o and_o i_o leave_v the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n to_o consider_v whether_o his_o reason_n or_o the_o king_n be_v write_v aught_o to_o take_v place_n 2._o if_o the_o bishop_n be_v a_o three_o estate_n 89._o they_o must_v have_v a_o negative_a voice_n to_o all_o that_o pass_v there_o but_o the_o bishop_n be_v intermingle_v with_o the_o temporal_a lord_n in_o make_v up_o the_o majority_n as_o a_o part_n of_o it_o since_o i_o have_v evident_o prove_v the_o clergy_n to_o be_v one_o of_o the_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n if_o he_o be_v sure_a that_o every_o estate_n ought_v to_o have_v a_o negative_a voice_n than_o i_o be_o sure_a that_o this_o objection_n lie_v more_o upon_o he_o to_o answer_v then_o upon_o the_o bishop_n but_o to_o prevent_v any_o new_a dispute_n i_o shall_v return_v this_o answer_n to_o