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lord_n earl_n henry_n northumberland_n 11,343 5 11.8561 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A30986 That the bishops in England may and ought to vote in cases of blood written in the late times upon occasion of the Earl of Straffords case / by [a] learned pen ; with some answers to the objections of the then Bishop of Lincoln, against bishops voting in Parliament. Barlow, Thomas, 1607-1691. 1680 (1680) Wing W2677C; Wing B845; ESTC R17167 16,504 22

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agitation_n of_o the_o selfsame_a cause_n bishop_n it_o seem_v may_v be_v witness_n to_o kill_v outright_o but_o may_v not_o sit_v in_o the_o discussion_n of_o the_o cause_n to_o help_v in_o case_n of_o innocency_n a_o distress_a noble_a man_n whereas_o the_o very_a gothish_a bishop_n who_o first_o invent_v this_o exclusion_n of_o prelate_n from_o such_o judicature_n allow_v they_o to_o vote_n as_o long_o as_o there_o be_v any_o hope_n leave_v of_o clear_v the_o party_n or_o gain_v of_o pardon_n council_n tolet._n 4._o can_n 31._o and_o by_o the_o begin_n of_o that_o canon_n observe_v the_o use_n in_o spain_n in_o that_o age_n anno_fw-la dom._n 633_o as_o touch_v this_o doctrine_n saepe_fw-la principes_fw-la contra_fw-la quoslibet_fw-la majestatis_fw-la obnoxios_fw-la sacerdotibus_fw-la negotia_fw-la sua_fw-la committunt_fw-la you_o shall_v find_v it_o in_o the_o four_o tome_n of_o binius_fw-la his_fw-la last_o edition_n of_o the_o council_n pag._n 592._o last_o in_o the_o case_n of_o archbishop_n abbot_n all_o the_o great_a civilian_n and_o judge_n of_o this_o kingdom_n as_o dr._n steward_n sir_n henry_n martin_n the_o lord_n chief_a justice_n ho●bar●_n and_o judge_n doderidge_n which_o two_o last_o be_v well_o verse_v in_o the_o canon_n law_n deliver_v positive_o that_o all_o irregularity_n introduce_v by_o canon_n upon_o ecclesiastical_a person_n concern_v matter_n of_o blood_n be_v take_v away_o by_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o statute_n of_o 25_o of_o henry_n 8._o as_o restrain_v the_o king_n most_o just_a prerogative_n to_o employ_v his_o own_o subject_n in_o such_o function_n and_o office_n as_o his_o predecessor_n have_v do_v and_o to_o allow_v they_o those_o privilege_n and_o recreation_n as_o by_o the_o law_n and_o custom_n of_o this_o realm_n they_o have_v former_o enjoy_v notwithstanding_o the_o decree_n de_fw-fr clerico_n venatore_fw-la or_o the_o constitution_n ne_o clerici_fw-la 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in_o the_o same_o session_n and_o in_o the_o very_a same_o cause_n to_o take_v away_o the_o vote_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o earl_n of_o strafford_n for_o by_o the_o same_o canon-law_n that_o forbid_v clergyman_n to_o sentence_n they_o of_o that_o coat_n be_v more_o strict_o inhibit_v to_o give_v testimony_n in_o cause_n of_o blood_n nec_fw-la etiam_fw-la potest_fw-la esse_fw-la testis_fw-la vel_fw-la tabellio_n in_o causa_fw-la sanguinis_fw-la say_v my_o lyndwood_n fol._n 146._o pag._n 2._o for_o no_o man_n co-operate_v more_o to_o a_o sentence_n of_o death_n than_o the_o witness_n upon_o who_o attestation_n the_o sentence_n be_v principal_o found_v say_v lopez_n in_o his_o practica_fw-la criminalis_fw-la cap._n 98._o dist._n 21._o and_o yet_o have_v these_o lord_n admit_v as_o witness_n produce_v by_o the_o commons_o against_o the_o earl_n of_o strafford_n the_o arch-bishop_n of_o canterbury_n and_o armache_n together_o with_o the_o bishop_n of_o london_n the_o which_o lord_n now_o command_v all_o bishop_n to_o withdraw_v in_o the_o
kingdom_n and_o therefore_o they_o be_v abolish_v by_o the_o statute_n of_o 25_o henry_n the_o 8_o the_o 2._o so_o be_v they_o by_o the_o same_o statute_n because_o the_o lord_n have_v declare_v that_o the_o bishop_n vote_n here_o by_o the_o law_n and_o statute_n of_o this_o realm_n and_o all_o canon_n that_o cross_n with_o these_o be_v there_o abolish_v 3._o so_o be_v they_o by_o the_o same_o statute_n as_o thwart_v the_o king_n prerogative_n to_o call_v bishop_n by_o summons_n to_o vote_n in_o parliament_n 4._o so_o be_v they_o by_o the_o vote_n in_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o 21_o maij._n 1641_o because_o they_o be_v not_o confirm_v by_o act_n of_o parliament_n 5._o this_o argument_n be_v desert_v by_o mr._n perpoint_n and_o confess_v to_o be_v but_o a_o argumentum_fw-la ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la arg._n four_o because_o the_o twenty_o four_o bishop_n have_v a_o dependency_n upon_o the_o arch-bishop_n and_o because_o of_o their_o oath_n of_o canonical_a obedience_n to_o they_o answer_n 1._o they_o have_v no_o dependency_n upon_o the_o arch-bishop_n but_o in_o point_n of_o appeal_n and_o visitation_n only_o and_o owe_v they_o no_o obedience_n but_o in_o these_o two_o point_n none_o at_o all_o in_o parliament_n where_o they_o be_v pares_fw-la they_o be_v equal_n and_o as_o bracton_n tell_v we_o par_fw-fr in_fw-la parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la what_o have_v canonical_a obedience_n to_o do_v with_o a_o vote_n in_o parliament_n declare_v in_o this_o bill_n to_o be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a but_o a_o secular_a affair_n 2._o this_o argument_n reach_v not_o the_o two_o arch-bishop_n discharge_v in_o the_o rubric_n from_o this_o oath_n and_o therefore_o be_v no_o reason_n for_o the_o pass_n of_o this_o bill_n arg._n v._o because_o they_o be_v but_o for_o their_o life_n and_o therefore_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o have_v legislative_a power_n over_o the_o honour_n inheritance_n person_n and_o liberty_n of_o other_o ans._n 1._o bishop_n be_v not_o for_o their_o life_n only_o but_o for_o their_o successor_n also_o in_o their_o land_n and_o honour_n as_o the_o earl_n and_o baron_n also_o be_v for_o their_o successor_n in_o their_o land_n and_o honour_n and_o hold_v their_o land_n in_o fee-simple_a may_v with_o as_o good_a reason_n vote_n in_o the_o honour_n inheritance_n person_n and_o liberty_n of_o other_o as_o other_o may_z and_o do_v in_o they_o 2._o many_o peer_n have_v be_v create_v for_o their_o life_n only_o and_o the_o earl_n of_o surrey_n for_o the_o life_n of_o his_o father_n who_o yet_o vote_v in_o this_o house_n 3._o the_o knight_n citizen_n and_o burgess_n be_v choose_v for_o one_o parliament_n only_o and_o yet_o use_v their_o legislative_a power_n nor_o will_v their_o be_v elect_v difference_n their_o case_n for_o the_o lord_n use_v that_o power_n in_o a_o great_a eminency_n who_o be_v not_o elect_v 4._o a_o burgess_n that_o have_v a_o freehold_n but_o for_o term_n of_o life_n only_o may_v vote_n and_o assent_n to_o a_o law_n in_o parliament_n 5._o no_o such_o exception_n ever_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o diet_n of_o germany_n the_o corteses_n of_o spain_n or_o the_o three_o estate_n in_o france_n where_o the_o prelate_n vote_n in_o all_o these_o point_n with_o the_o nobility_n and_o the_o commons_o arg._n vi_o because_o of_o bishop_n dependency_n and_o expectance_n of_o translation_n to_o place_n of_o great_a profit_n answ._n 1._o this_o argument_n suppose_v all_o king_n and_o all_o bishop_n to_o be_v very_o faulty_a if_o they_o take_v the_o time_n of_o their_o vote_n in_o parliament_n from_o these_o dependency_n and_o expectancy_n 2._o this_o may_v be_v say_v of_o all_o the_o king_n great_a officer_n of_o all_o the_o noble_a member_n of_o both_o house_n who_o may_v be_v conceive_v as_o well_o as_o bishop_n to_o have_v their_o expectancy_n and_o consequent_o to_o be_v deprive_v by_o this_o reason_n of_o vote_v in_o parliament_n 3._o this_o argument_n reach_v not_o at_o the_o two_o arch-bishop_n and_o so_o fall_v short_a of_o the_o vote_n which_o be_v to_o be_v take_v away_o by_o this_o bill_n arg._n vii_o that_o several_a bishop_n have_v of_o late_a much_o encroach_v upon_o the_o conscience_n and_o property_n of_o the_o subject_n and_o they_o and_o their_o successor_n will_v be_v much_o encourage_v still_o to_o encroach_v and_o the_o subject_n will_v be_v much_o discourage_v from_o complain_v against_o such_o encroachment_n if_o 26_o of_o that_o order_n be_v to_o be_v judge_n upon_o these_o complaint_n the_o same_o reason_n extend_v to_o their_o legislative_a power_n in_o any_o bill_n to_o pass_v for_o the_o regulation_n of_o their_o power_n upon_o any_o emergent_a inconveniency_n by_o it_o answ._n 1._o this_o argument_n fight_v not_o against_o bishop_n vote_n in_o parliament_n but_o against_o their_o vote_n in_o convocation_n where_o if_o any_o where_o they_o have_v encroach_v upon_o the_o conscience_n and_o property_n of_o the_o subject_a nor_o yet_o at_o the_o vote_n of_o such_o bishop_n there_o as_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o this_o offence_n nor_o need_v the_o subject_a to_o be_v discourage_v in_o complain_v against_o the_o like_a grievance_n though_o 26_o of_o that_o order_n continue_v judge_n for_o they_o shall_v not_o vote_n as_o judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n when_o they_o be_v legal_o charge_v and_o if_o they_o shall_v vote_n what_o be_v that_o to_o the_o purpose_n when_o the_o lay-peer_n be_v still_o four_o to_o one_o the_o bishop_n assist_v with_o a_o double_a number_n of_o mitre_a abbot_n and_o prior_n can_v not_o hinder_v the_o law_n make_v against_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n the_o alien_a cardinal_n and_o prelate_n the_o provisor_n the_o suitor_n to_o the_o pope_n consistory_n under_o edw._n 3_o d_o rich._n 2_o d_o and_o hen._n 4_o the_o much_o more_o may_v those_o emergent_a exhorbitance_n of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n be_v soon_o curb_v and_o redress_v in_o this_o inequality_n of_o vote_n between_o the_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a lord_n so_o as_o this_o argument_n do_v not_o so_o much_o hurt_v the_o vote_n as_o it_o quail_v the_o courage_n of_o the_o bishop_n who_o may_v just_o fear_v by_o this_o and_o by_o the_o next_o argument_n that_o the_o take_v away_o of_o their_o vote_n be_v but_o a_o kind_n of_o forerunner_n to_o the_o abolish_n of_o their_o jurisdiction_n arg._n viii_o because_o the_o whole_a number_n of_o they_o be_v interest_v to_o maintain_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o bishop_n which_o have_v be_v find_v so_o grievous_a to_o the_o three_o kingdom_n that_o scotland_n have_v utter_o abolish_v it_o and_o multitude_n in_o england_n and_o ireland_n have_v petition_v against_o it_o answ._n 1._o this_o argument_n be_v not_o against_o the_o vote_n of_o bishop_n but_o against_o episcopacy_n itself_o which_o must_v be_v remove_v because_o scotland_n have_v do_v so_o and_o some_o in_o england_n and_o ireland_n will_v have_v it_o so_o and_o yet_o peradventure_o ten_o time_n as_o great_a a_o number_n as_o these_o desire_n the_o contrary_n 2._o there_o will_v be_v find_v peer_n enough_o in_o the_o upper-house_n to_o reform_v any_o thing_n that_o be_v amiss_o in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n although_o the_o twenty_o six_o prelate_n shall_v be_v so_o wicked_a as_o to_o oppose_v it_o as_o there_o be_v find_v peer_n enough_o in_o that_o noble_a house_n to_o curb_v the_o court_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o revenue_n of_o the_o cardinal_n under_o edw._n 3_o d_o to_o meet_v with_o the_o provisor_n under_o ric._n 2_o d_o to_o put_v all_o the_o clergy_n into_o a_o praemunire_n under_o hen._n 8_o and_o to_o reform_v the_o religion_n 1_o elizabeth_n notwithstanding_o the_o opposition_n of_o all_o the_o bishop_n arg._n ix_o because_o the_o bishop_n be_v lord_n of_o parliament_n it_o set_v too_o great_a a_o distance_n between_o they_o and_o the_o rest_n of_o their_o brethren_n in_o the_o ministry_n which_o occasion_v pride_n in_o they_o discontent_a in_o other_o and_o disquiet_v in_o the_o church_n answ._n this_o be_v a_o argument_n from_o moral_a philosophy_n which_o afford_v no_o demonstration_n all_o be_v not_o proud_a that_o vote_n in_o parliament_n nor_o discontent_v that_o be_v not_o so_o employ_v this_o argument_n fight_v only_o against_o their_o title_n of_o be_v lord_n which_o be_v not_o the_o question_n at_o this_o time_n finis_fw-la