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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	duke_n	henry_n	john_n	13,683	5	5.5792	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A30986	That the bishops in England may and ought to vote in cases of blood written in the late times upon occasion of the Earl of Straffords case / by [a] learned pen ; with some answers to the objections of the then Bishop of Lincoln, against bishops voting in Parliament.	Barlow, Thomas, 1607-1691.	1680 (1680)	Wing W2677C; Wing B845; ESTC R17167	16,504	22

Agitation of the self-same Cause Bishops it seems may be Witnesses to kill outright but may not sit in the Discussion of the Cause to help in Case of Innocency a distressed Noble man whereas the very Gothish Bishops who first invented this exclusion of Prelates from such Judicatures allow them to Vote as long as there is any hope left of clearing the party or gaining of Pardon Concil Tolet. 4. can 31. And by the beginning of that Canon observe the use in Spain in that Age Anno Dom. 633 as touching this Doctrine Saepe Principes contra quoslibet Majestatis obnoxios sacerdotibus negotia sua committunt You shall find it in the fourth Tome of Binius his last Edition of the Councils pag. 592. Lastly in the Case of Arch-Bishop Abbots all the great Civilians and Judges of this Kingdom as Dr. Steward Sir Henry Martin the Lord Chief Justice Ho●bar● and Judge Doderidge which two last were well vers'd in the Canon Law delivered positively that all Irregularities introduced by Canons upon Ecclesiastical Persons concerning matters of Blood were taken away by the Reformation of the Church of England And were repugnant to the Statute of 25 of Henry 8. as restraining the Kings most just Prerogative to imploy his own Subjects in such functions and Offices as his Predecessors had done and to allow them those Priviledges and Recreations as by the Laws and Customs of this Realm they had formerly enjoyed Notwithstanding the Decree de Clerico venatore or the Constitution Ne Clerici saecularem jurisdictionem exerceant or any other in that kind The only Objection which appears upon any Learning or Record against Church-mens Voting in this Kingdom in Causes of Blood are two or three Protestations entred by the Bishops amongst the Records of the upper House of Parliament and some few passages in the Law-Books relating thereunto The Protestation the Lords now principally stood upon is that of William Courtney Arch-Bishop of Canterbury 11º Ric. 2. inserted in the Book of Priviledges which Mr. Selden Collected for the Lords of the upper House In the Margen whereof that passage out of Roger Hoveden whereof we spake before about Clergy-mens agitation of Judgments of Blood is unluckily inserted and for want of due Consideration of this point and some suspition of partial carriage in the Bishops in the Case of the Earl of Strafford hath been eagerly pressed upon the Bishops by some of the Lords in such an unusual and unaccustomed manner that if the Bishop of Lincoln who offered to speak unto this Objection had not voluntarily withdrawn himself he and the rest of the Bishops had been without hearing Voted out of the House in the Agitation of a Splinter of that Cause of the Earl of Strafford which came not neer any matter of Blood An Act never done before in that Honourable House and now Executed suddenly without the least Consideration of the merit of the Cause The only words insisted upon in this Protestation in question are these Because in this present Parliament certain matters are agitated whereat it is not Lawful for us according to the Prescript of Holy Canons to be present And by and by after they say these matters are such in the which nec possumus nec debemus interesse we neither can nor may be present This is the Protestation most stood upon for that of Arch-Bishop Arundel 21 Rich. 2. at what time the Bishops going forth left their Proxies notwithstanding with the Lay-Lords and consequently continued present in Judicature in the eye and Construction of the Law it is not so full and ample as this of Courtney's And therefore I must apply my Answers to this Protestation principally which are diverse and fit to be weighed and understood First I do observe that Bishops never Protested or withdrew in Cases of Blood but under the unsteddy Reign of Richard the Second only Never before never after the time of that unfortunate King from the Conquest to this present Parliament for ought appeareth in Record or History And that one Swallow should make us such a Spring and one Omission should create a Law or Custome against so many Actions of the English Prelates under so many Kings before so many Kings and Queens after that young Prince seems unto me a strange Doctrine Especially when I consider that by the Rules of the Civil and Canon Law a Protestation dies with the Death of him that makes it and is Regularly vacuated and disannulled Per contrarium actum subsequentem protestationem by any one subsequent Act varying from the tenour of the said Protestation Reg. juris Jo. Baptist. Nicolai par 2. Now that you may know how the Prelates carryed themselves in this Point and actually voted in Causes of Treason and sometimes to Blood before Richard the 2 d I refer me to what I cited before out of Mr. Selden and he out of Stephanides concerning Thomas a Becket Condemned by his Peers Ecclesiastical and Temporal about 15 of Henry the 2 d Arch-Bishop Stratford acquitted of high Treason in Parliament by four Prelates four Earls and four Barons under Edward the 3 d. Antiquitates Britanniae pag. 223. 4 Edward 3 Roger de Mortimer Berisford Travers and others adjudged Traytors by the Earls Barons and Peers 16º Edward 3. Thomas de Berkley was acquitted of Treason in pleno Parliamento c. And especially I refer me to that Roll of 21 Rich. 2 no. 10. 50 Which avers that Judgments and Ordinances in the time of that Kings Progenitors had been avoided by the absence of the Clergy which makes the Commons thereto pray that the Prelates would make a Procurator by whom they might in all Judgments of Blood be at the least legally if they durst not be bodily present in such Judgments And then for the practice sithence the Reign of Rich. the 2 d In the first of Henry the 4 th the Commons thank the Lords Spiritual and Temporal for their good and rightful Judgment in freeing the Earl of Northumberland from Treason 3 of Henry the 5 th the Commons pray a Confirmation of the Judgment given upon the Earl of Cambridge by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal 5 of Henry the 5 th Sir John Oldcastle is Attainted of Treason and Heresie by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal 28 of Henry the 6 th the Duke of Suffolk charged with Treason before the Lords Spiritual and Temporal 31 Henry the 6 th the Earl of Devon and so down to the Earl of Bristols Case wherein 22º Maij. 1626. ten Bishops are joyned with ten Earls and ten Barons in the disquisition and agitation of that supposed Treason I leave it therefore to the Judgment of any indifferent man whether these Protestations made all under one Kings Reign and dying with the Parties that made them can void a Right and Custom grounded by a continual Practice to the contrary in all other Tryals that have been sithence the Conquest to this present Parliament Secondly it is fitting we

2 d. to absent themselves when they listed from this Assembly of the Estate contrary to the Kings Commands in the Writs of Summons and to the duties of their places as Peers of Parliament Howbeit they shewed more Courtesie or more Wit at the least than our present Prelates for they never offered to retire themselves in those dayes before their Protestation was benignly received and suffered to be entred upon the Parliament Roll by the King and the Lords and the House of Commons The Second Reason of this Prelate is of the same Nature and built upon a Medium of Sands which is soon undermined and washed away That although he doubted not of the Legality or Comliness of an Ecclesiastical Peer of the Kingdom of England to Vote in a Judgment of Blood as they do continually in the passing of all Appeals and Attainders in Parliament yet because it is not the practice of Prelates in other parts of the Christian World so to do he thought it better to avoid Scandal and the talk of other Nations That there being in the High Courts of Parliament and Star-Chamber Judges enough besides the Prelates they might without any prejudice to King or Countrey forbear Voting in these Judicatures Somewhat the rather because all our Bishops in England are Divines and Preachers of the Gospel and consequently of mercy rather than of Judgment Who never touch upon the sharpness of the Law unless it be to prepare mens hearts to receive the Comfort of the Gospel But this Prelate cannot but know that these Canons that Oppose the Kings Prerogative are taken away in the Kingdom of England by the Statute of 25 Henry the 8 th which they are not elsewhere And this Bishop if he have not forgot it was taught all this in the Case of Irregularity pursued against Arch-Bishop Abbots when this Bishop fearing the Censure of the Sorbonists in Paris refused to be Consecrated by Abbots unless he the said Abbots would procure himself absolved from that Irregularity which he had Contracted in killing a man by Chance-medly which he was enforced at the last to do this other Prelate being then in his rising and warm Blood and liking better of many good Benefices than of one mean Bishoprick refusing stiffly to be made Bishop of Lincoln upon any other Condition For Bishops making of Procurators in Causes of Blood IT doth not appear that Bishops ever made Protestations or withdrew in Cases of this Nature before the 11th nor after the 21 st of Rich. the 2 d. And yet the Attainders in the 11 th year are afterwards ratified by the Consent of the Lords Spiritual 11 Rich. 2. as you see by their Act of consent Rott 11 Rich. 2. no. 38. And the Printed Statutes And in his twenty first year they made Procurators first Thomas Percy in Writing 21 Rich. 2. no. 9. where you have his Proxie set down in Latine and then Scrop Earl of Worcester by word of mouth As the Roll is 21 Rich. 2. no. 50. where Scrop gives Sentence in the like Causes by vertue of that Procuration as the Roll saith And that this Proxie of the Prelates was not left with a Lay-man for the dispatch of other Civil Causes only but for Judgments of Blood also it is appealed to all Histories and Law-Books that have been Written from that time to this present day Thomas of Walsingham Lived under Henry the 6 th and he saith that it was exacted of the Prelates for it was not their own seeking as you may see upon the Rolls that because they could not be present in Judgments of Blood their Procurator upon the like occasion might assent unto such a Business Walsing in Rich. 2. pag. 354. So likewise in his Hypodigma Neustria pag. 550. Littleton Lived under Edward the 4 th and he pronounceth for himself and all his fellow Judges That the Lords Spiritual who cannot consent to the Death of a man shall make a Procurator in the Parliament before the Steward is to proceed to gather Votes c. The Year-Book 10 Ed. the 4 th no. 17. Stamford Lived under Henry the 8th Edward the 6 th Queen Mary And he saith clearly That when a Peer is Indicted of Treason or Felonie in Parliament the Lords Spiritual shall make a Procurator for them Stam. Pleas of the Crown lib. 3. pag. 153. Mr. John Selden Lives still than whom peradventure there Lived not an abler Lawyer in both the Laws from the 21 st of Richard the 2 d to this day And he saith that the Clergy by reason of the Canon Laws not the Common Laws absented themselves sometimes from such Judgments and committed their whole Interest for the time to a Lay-Proxie Tit. of Honour 2 d part pag. 704. Lastly for the Canon-Law in this point it is not only dispensed withal by the Kings Summons to his Prelates but by the Lords themselves in this very Cause of the Earl of Strafford by their examining of the two Arch-Bishops and a Bishop for Witnesses in the said Cause which is no less forbidden in the Canon Law than to Judge in Causes of Blood Lyndwood Fol. 146. pag. 2. When the effect of this Paper was opened and the Records and all the Books produced by the Bishop of Lincoln who had been in the Tower to search the said Records the Lords declared and ordered that they would use no Proxies of their own in this Tryal with a Salvo of their Right against any other time And thereupon the said Bishop finding the Inclination of the House and Timidity of his Brethren offered the like Declaration with the like Salvo in point of Right for the Lords the Bishops which was accepted of and entered into the Book the Bishop of Lincoln dictating the same THE Bishop of Lincoln's ARGUMENTS That Bishops ought not to Vote in Parliament With the Answers thereunto Arg. I. BEcause it is a very great hindrance to the Exercise of their Ministerial Function Answer 1. It is not so much hindrance as their conveneing in General Councils Synods Convocations Assemblies Classes and the like in all the Churches Reformed or otherwise 2. It is propter majus bonum Ecclesiae 3. The Apostles unnecessarily put themselves to more hindrances to work for their livelyhood Acts 20.24 1 Thes. 2.9 2 Thes. 3.8 Arg. II. Because they do vow and undertake at their Ordination when they enter into Holy Orders that they will give themselves wholly to that Vocation Answer 1. This Vow and undertaking in Ministers Ordination is quite mistaken the words are in the Bishops exhortation not in the Ministers Answer 2. The Bishop hopes they will give themselves wholly to that and not to any other Trade or Vocation 3. Wholly in a Moral and not in a Mathematical sense that will admit of no Latitude Arg. III. Because Councils and Canons in several Ages do forbid them to meddle in Secular Affairs Answer 1. Councils and Canons against Bishops Votes in Parliament were never in use in this