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A02483 An ansvvere to a treatise vvritten by Dr. Carier, by way of a letter to his Maiestie vvherein he layeth downe sundry politike considerations; by which hee pretendeth himselfe was moued, and endeuoureth to moue others to be reconciled to the Church of Rome, and imbrace that religion, which he calleth catholike. By George Hakewil, Doctour of Diuinity, and chapleine to the Prince his Highnesse. Hakewill, George, 1578-1649.; Carier, Benjamin, 1566-1614. Treatise written by Mr. Doctour Carier.; Carier, Benjamin, 1566-1614. Copy of a letter, written by M. Doctor Carier beyond seas, to some particular friends in England. 1616 (1616) STC 12610; ESTC S103612 283,628 378

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to wit Westminster Chester Peterborough Oxford Bristol and Gloucester whereof the fiue last are yet in being at which time hee also erected at Canterbury a Deane with 12. Prebends at Winchester another with 12. more at Worcester another with ten at Chester another with sixe at Peterborough another with sixe at Oxford another with eight at Ely another with eight at Gloucester another with sixe at Bristol another with sixe at Carlile another with foure at Durham another with twelue at Rochester another with sixe and lastly at Norwich another with sixe so that wee haue good reason to thinke he returned againe to the Church much out of the Abbey lands and if notwithstanding all this God blessed him not in his thriuing wee haue nothing else to answere but that of Salomon It is a snare to the man who deuoureth that which is holy and after vowes to make inquiry But in his wiuing hee so blessed him though in this too hee shewed himselfe a man and consequently subiect to humane passion and frailty that three of his children successiuely wore the Crown after him of which the first was renowmed for his vertue beyond his age and the last beyond her Sexe of the one and his mother it was written Phoenix Ianaiacet nato Phoenice dolendum Saecula Phoenices nullatulisse duas And to the other might bee applied Non decor effecit fragilem non sceptra superbam Sola potens humilis sola pudica decens And though they all died without issue yet doth his honour still liue in theirs Henry the II. of France died in the vnitie of the Church of Rome yet three of his sonnes reigning after him left the Crown to a neighbour Prince as the children of Henry the VIII heere with vs did yet none that I haue met with hold him in that regard accursed of God and if in that respect God cursed Henry because hee renounced the pretended authoritie of the Church of Rome then should hee by vertue of that reason haue blessed Henries eldest daughter with issue who with great submission and deuotion reconciled her selfe to that Church and married to the most Catholike King and though the world were for a while so borne in hand yet in the end the great and solemne expectation thereof vanished into smoake Now that Henrie was wearie of his title of Supremacie before he died it appeares not and that hee wished to bee reconciled to the Pope which you call being in the Church againe is as vnlikely since no doubt is to bee made but vpon notice giuen of his Contrition and desire of Satisfaction hee might as easily haue beene absolued as wished it But certaine it is that hee wished it not if we may make coniecture of his wishes from those speeches which a little before his death hee deliuered to Mounsieur de Hannibault Lord Admirall of France and Ambassadour to the French king being then at Hampton Court in the moneth of August and in the yeere 1546. in the hearing of Cranmer Lord Archbishop of Canterburie concerning the reformation of Religion and afterwards more neere his death and more openly to Bruno Ambassador of Iohn Frederike Duke of Saxonie vnto whom the King gaue this answere in the hearing of these foure sufficient witnesses the Lord Seymer Earle of Hartford Lord Lisley then Admirall the Earle of Bedford Lord Priuie Seale and the Lord Paget That if the quarrell of the Duke of Saxonie were nothing else against the Emperour but for matter of Religion he should stand to it strongly and hee would take his part willing him not to doubt nor feare and with this answere dismissed him Besides the manner of his sonne and heire Apparent Prince Edwards education the qualitie and disposition of those persons whom he named as the principall ouerseers of his Will from which number hee excluded the Bishop of Winchester the most busie and forward instrument in those times for the maintenance of the Romish Religion though hee had once admitted him and was earnestly solicited by some of his bed chamber to readmit him are to mee so many euident demonstrations that hee was so farre from wishiug reconciliation with the Church of Rome that hee rather desired and intended if God had spared him life a while longer some more full and perfect reformation of Religon But the secret working of Gods holy prouidence which disposeth all things after his owne wisedome and purpose thought it good rather by taking that King away to reserue the accomplishment of that worke as he did the building of his Temple to Solomon to the peaceable time of his sonne Edward and Elizabeth his daughter whose hands were vndefiled with any blood and life vnspotted with any violence or crueltie Lastly not content to rippe vp the disgraces of his life you dogge him to his very graue bearing vs in hand that he was accursed of God in as much as hee wanted a Tombe which was the want also of Queene Mary his daughter But if the want of a Tombe be a token of Gods Curse vpon Henry then the hauing of it must consequently be a token of his blessing vpon Elizabeth whom notwithstanding you wrappe in the same Curse Nay how many of your Bishops of Rome then are Cursed of God of whom a number are not onely without Tombes but some in the first age of the Church by the fury of their persecutors and some in latter times by the malice of their Successors without Graues also Indeed wee reade of Dauid a man after Gods owne heart His Sepulchre is with vs vnto this day But of Moses a faithfull seruant in all the house of God No man knoweth of his Sepulchre vnto this day And yet in my remembrance we read it no were that either Dauid was more blessed of God for the one or Moses cursed for the other the heathen Poet could tell vs Coelo tegitur quinon habet vrnam And S. Augustine that these kinde of Monuments and Memorials are Solatia viuorum not su●sidia mortuorum comforts only for the liuing no helpes for the dead and many noble spirits may be of Catoes minde desirous rather that after their deaths it should be demaunded why they haue no statue erected to their memory then why they haue one This I speake onely to shew that had hee had no Tombe yet were it no great dishonor to him But if we may credite the last but not the worst compiler of the Historie of our Countrey hee was with great solemnitie buried at Windsor vnder a most costly and stately Tombe begun in copper and guilt but neuer finished In the inclosures of whose grates is curiously cast this Inscription Henricus Octauus Rex Angliae Franciae Dominus Hiberniae Fidei defensor And that it might appeare to posteritie how Artificiall and Magnificent this worke was intended he there sets downe the seuerall parcels and pieces of the Modell thereof as he found it described in a Manuscript receiued from Mr. Lancaster
him whereas wee euery where teach with S. Peter that as noe prophecie-in the Scripture is of priuate motion so neither is it of priuate interpretation the originall word signifies both Wee cannot take from any Christian man in expoūding of Scripture a iudgement of discretion in weighing the drift of the Text and conferring it with other passages of like nature though to the guides of the Church and Pastours of mens soules we reserue the iudgement of direction but the iudgement of iurisdiction to the representatiue Church it selfe assembled in Synode for as the spirits of the people are in this case subiect to the Prophets who sit in Moses chaire so the spirits of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets if not to conuince the conscience at leastwise to impose silence for God is not the authour of confusion but of peace and they which thinke otherwise for mine owne part I thinke of them that the way of peace they haue not knowen I will conclude this point with his Maiesties most graue and godly aduice When ye reade the Scripture reade it with a sanctified and chaste heart admire reuerently such obscure plases as yee vnderstand not blaming onely your owne capacitie reade with delight the plaine places and studie carefully to vnderstand those that are somewhat difficile presse to bee a good Textuary for the Scripture is ●euer the best interpreter of it selfe but presse not curiously to seeke out farther then is contained therein for that were ouer vnmannerly a presumption to striue to bee further vpon Gods secrets then hee hath will bee for what hee thought needefull for vs to know that hath hee reuealed there and delight most in reading such parts of the Scripture as may best serue for your instruction in your calling reiecting foolish curiosities vpon Genealogies and contentions which are but vaine and profit not as Paul saith If these then bee the opinions of the Church of England which you call Caluinisme maintained aswell by the pens as the tongues of those Church-men who sit at the Sterne and in the most eminent places of the Church there will easily appeare a reason to the Parliament if it be demanded why so necessary a partie as the Clergie should at leastwise peaceably enioy that allowance which they haue allotted by Gods ordinance the piety of deuout mindes and the ancient constitutions of the Realme and sure wee are that a great deale lesse reason there is of maintaining so chargeable a Clergie in the Romane Hierarchie where the Popes plenary Indulgence may in a trice effectuate that about which they make so much a doe But at length the Asses eares appeare through the Lions skinne before he haue told vs in generall that those opinions forged for the most part out of his owne braine were too much fa●ored maintained by Clergie men themselues here he comes at length to open his splene tels vs in plaine termes that the Clergie men he meanes are such who can be content to be Lords and to go in Rochets being indeed the greatest enemies of the Clergie now had the same men who long since did smell his hypocrisie and inclination toward Rome fauoured Dr. Cariers Popish doctrine and designes or endeuoured to haue put him in a Rochet and to haue made him a Lord whereof he thought himselfe worthy though no man else did they had doubtlesse bene in his account the Clergies best friends but for that they discouered and discountenanced his slie purposes and practises they are now become the greatest enemies the Clergie hath they are therefore become enemies because they tell the trueth yet whatsoeuer they are to the Clergie whome they loue and tender as their brethren sure I am they haue proued themselues more loyall to his Maiestie and more faithfull to the State more diligent in their calling and more vnblameable in their wayes then the accuser it being a thing full of commiseration and compassion to see that by these false and wicked suggestions of mutinous and discontented persons the deuil the father of these and all other lies doth daily take possession of the soules of some of his Maiesties subiects both of the Nobles and Commons But another sort of Clergie men you say there are good schollers and temperate men who cannot but in their iudgment approue the trueth of the Catholike religion These that you may the better satisfie you desire two things and by way of counterchange or retribution promise three hauing assurance as you pretend from some of the greatest The first thing you desire is no lesse then the Bishop of Rom●s Supremacie in England which you vaile vnder the title of the subordination of the Church of Canterbury vnto that Church by whose authority all other Churches in England at first were and still are subordinate vnto Canterbury Whe●ther Rome may properly be called the mother Church of England I haue already in another place considered but vndoubtedly as the case now stands she being become vnto vs worse then a stepmother we cannot in common reason entertaine vn●on with her much lesse acknowledge subi●ction vnto her for shall we thinke that the head of the Papacie being in the body of Poperie will bee long behind no no if that one po●nt were once yeelded vnto all the rest controuersed betweene vs and them would quickly follow after as a necessarie traine The Frier in Chaucer would haue nothing be killed for his sake only he desired the liuer of the capon and the braine of the pig So the Pope would bee contented there should bee no innouation in England vpon condition his Supremacie and the Masse● the second thing you desire were readmitted vpon which two in a manner the whole frame of Poperie is built and therefore in the reformed Churches of France not without good reason in my iudgment such as forsake the fellowship of the Church of Rome and betake themselues to their profession are bound before they bee admitted into their society publikely in the Congregation as to renounce the errours of that Church in generall so in speciall and by name to abiure these two The vsurped authority of the Bishop of Rome and the ●dolatry of the Masse as may appeare in the late declaration of the admittance of the Earle of Candale into their Church in Ianuary last he being sonne and heire to the Duke d'Espernon a chiefe Patron of the Iesuits and their faction and the Lord himselfe as he is stiled in the declaration printed at Rochel 1616 Prince of Busch Duke and Peere of France gouernour and Lieutenant generall for the king in the Prouinces of Xaintong● A●goulmois high and low Limosin principall gentleman of the kings chamber in this declaration he also protesteth before God the searcher of hearts and iudge of soules that his change proceeded not from the motions of fl●sh and blood o● from worldly respects but from the meere senc● of cons●ience But to retur●e to our purpose the latter of
it to the world that no other sect of heretikes not excepting Turke Iew nor Pagan no not euen those of Calicute who adore the deuill did euer maintaine it by the grounds of their religion Marke by the grounds of their religion that it was lawfull or rather meritorious as the Romish Catholikes call it to murder princes or people for quarrell of religion And although particular men of all professions of religion haue beene some theeues some murtherers some traitours yet euer when they came to their ende and iust punishment they confessed their fault to be in their nature and not in their profession these Romish Catholikes onely excepted And if that be your religion which we finde maintained by the chiefe pillars and Doctours of your Church and determined to bee Catholike by your Popes and Cardinals surely we haue as litle reason to entertaine your doctrine as wee haue good reason euer to be iealous of your practise Your doctrine is That the Pope if hee thinke good may excommunicate and depose kings and dispose of their kingdomes by absoluing their subiects from their allegeance and setting forraine princes to inuade there dominions as if they held not their Crownes from God but from him and as if they were to write no more in their stiles by the grace of God but by the Popes grace king of such or such a kingdom Your doctrine is that treason deliuered vnder the seale of cōfession is not to be discouered though it be to the indangering of your Soueraigns person the subuersion of the whole body of the State Your doctrine is That as many Churchmen as are in the Kingdom which in most is a third part in some more they are all exempted from the coertion of the ciuill Magistrate being for punishment whether in bodie or in estate onely lyable to the censures of Ecclesiasticall courts which haue both dependance vpon the Popes authoritie and direction from his Canon Law Your doctrine is That as many Bishops and Arch-Bishops as are any where consecrated ought to take their oath to bee true and loyall to their good Lord and holy Father of Rome to the vtmost to execute and further his Commaunds without any limitation or reference to the authoritie of their Soueraigne Lord the King as may appeare by the tenour of the oath here ensuing which I haue annexed to the end the Reader may iudge whether this be the onely Religion as Mr. Doctour pretendeth to keepe Subiects in obedience to their Kings I Iohn Bishop or Abbot of A. from this houre forward shall be faithfull and obedient to S. Peter and to the Holy Church of Rome and to my Lord the Pope and his Successors Canonically entring I shall not bee of counsaile nor consent that they shall lose either life or member or shall bee taken or suffer any violence or any wrong by any meanes Their counsaile to mee credited by them their messengers or Letters I shall not willingly discouer to any person The Popedome of Rome the rules of the holy Fathers and the regalities of S. Peter I shall helpe retaine defend against all men The Legate of the Sea Apostolike going and comming I shall honourably intreate The rights honours priuiledges authorities of the Church of Rome and of the Pope and his Successors I shall cause to bee conserued defended augmented and promoted I shall not bee in Counsell Treatie or any act in the which any thing shall be imagined against him or the Church of Rome their rights states honours or power And if I know any such to bee mooued or compassed I shall resist to my power and assoone as I can I shall aduertise him or such as may giue him knowledge The rules of the Holy Fathers the decrees ordinances sentences dispositions reseruations prouisions and commandements Apostolike I shall keepe to my power cause to be kept of other Heretikes Schismatikes and Rebels to our Holy Father and his Successours I shall resist and persecute to my power I shall come to the Synode when I am called except I bee let by a Canonical impediment The lights of the Apostle I shall visite personally or by my deputie I shall not aliene or sell my possessions without the Popes Councell so God mee helpe and the holy Euangelists No meruaile then that Henry the eight when he commaunded the forme of this Oath to bee publikely reade in Parliament complained to the Speaker Sir Tho. Audely and some others whom for that purpose he sent for that he had thought the Clergie of his Realme had bene his Subiects wholly but now we haue well perceiued sayeth hee that they are to vs but halfe Subiects or indeed scarce Subiects at all Finally your doctrine is that the Christians in the Primatiue Church abstained from taking armes not so much for conscience sake as because they wanted strength which must needs open a wide gappe to the people vpon any humorous discontent when they once feele their owne strength like an vntamed horse to cast their rider if they may and that I may speake in your own phrase to make no bones of violating the Maiestie of the king and his children and is this a Religion fit to keepe Subiects in obedience to their Soueraignes Whereas our doctrine on the other side is That the persons of princes are sacred and by Gods ordinance priuiledged from all violence and for their actions that they are onely accomptable to God their Crownes and Scepters not disposeable by any but by him who set the one vpon their heads and the other in their hands who hath the name written on his thigh King of Kings and Lord of Lords who as Iob speaketh leadeth Princes away spoiled and ouerthroweth the mightie and againe he powreth contempt vpon Princes and weakeneth the strength of the mightie Lastly our doctrine is that the Subiects duetie is not by any dispensable but by him alone who by his diuine prouidence subiected them to that power Now whether of these doctrines ours or yours is most likely to keepe men in obedience euen our enemies shall bee our Iudges Yet this to bee your doctrine your bookes witnesse and no man of learning and ingenuitie among you will denie But for our doctrine you pretend the opinions of Caluinists and those countrey Caluinists and those met in an Ale-house not in plaine termes but by consequences gathered not by sober or setled braines vpon iudgement but by working heads of greater libertie at their pleasure and that not in their bookes or speeches but in their liues and practises Thus the mountains swell as if wee should haue a giant borne but at length after much expectation wee haue a little mouse brought into the world What Mr. Doctour are there no principles in the Romish Catholike Religion from whence working heads of greater libertie doe at their pleasures draw the like dangerous consequences in their liues and practises If there bee none how comes it to passe that there are so many