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A54202 Reason against railing, and truth against fiction being an answer to those two late pamphlets intituled A dialogue between a Christian and a Quaker, and the Continuation of the dialogue &c. by one Thomas Hicks, an Anabaptist teacher : by W. Penn. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1673 (1673) Wing P1351; ESTC R25209 131,073 243

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Bread and Wine They were both Shadows and both Elementary and Perishable And though the Letter were more immediatly fore-running and introductory of the Substance it self yet not to be perpetuated For a Continuance of them had been a Judaizing of the Spiritual Evangelical Worship The Gospel would have been a State of Figures Types and Shadows which to assert or practise is as much as in such lies to pluck it up by the Roots The Appellation Ordinances of Christ I therefore renounce as Unscriptural and Inevangelical Besides a Spirit of Whoredom from God gross Apostacy into Superstition and Idolatry yea a Spirit of Hypocrisie Persecution and Murder and all manner of Wickedness has got them and covered It self with them Jezebel-like the old Enemy of God's Faithful Prophets and People And we can testifie from the same Spirit by which Paul renounced Circumcision that they are to be rejected as not now required neither have they since the False Church espoused and exalted them ever been taken up afresh by God's Command or in the Leading of his Eternal Spirit And the Lord will appear to gather People out of them but never to establish or keep People in them no they served their time and now the False Church has got them yea the Whore has made Merchandize with them and under such Historical Shadowy and Figurative Christianity has she managed her Mystery of Iniquity unto the beguiling Thousands whose Simplicity the Lord has and will have tender Regard to But they Baptized after the Holy Ghost was poured out True And they also would not eat the Flesh of things Strangled nor Blood They Circumcised and Purified themselves in the Temple and had Vows after the Pouring forth of the Holy Ghost By which we may learn that Condescension Practice are quite differing things from Institution else Paul would never have said He was not sent to Baptize i. e. with Water whose Commission doubtless went as far as any of the rest But they brake Bread and Paul received it from God True But Paul never enjoyned it He said As often as ye do it c. which is very wide of any Institution Again Read the Chapter fore-going 11. or 10. where he tells the Wise Men of another Bread then that he spoke to the Weak of who eat and drank to Excess not discerning the Lord's Body Further Let it be considered that no other Apostle recommends these things nor Paul himself to either the Romans the Corinthians in his first Epistle the Galatians Ephesians Philippians Collossians Thessalonians Hebrews if his nor to Timothy Titus and Philemon when he set down the Order of the Churches What an Over-sight might one then say according to T.H. was it in him not only not to press and charge but not to mention the Sacraments of the Church necessary to Salvation as they are called and esteemed Would it not have been accounted a great Neglect and Defect in Calvin if he had been silent to any Church instituted in his Time and Form or to say He thanked God he baptized none but such and such Yet how full are his and their Epistles of Divine Exhortation Information Reproof Instruction and the like Is it not very Wicked then in T. Hicks to tell the World of our Denying to keep God's Commandments in general because we Refuse to practise these Shadowy Temporary Perishing Things especially at this time a day after such an Abuse of them and that the Gentile-Spirit has troden them under ●oot so long being part of that Outward Courts of Religion given to them which were left out at the measuring of the Evangelical Temple of God Rev. 21 Besides what Authority have these Men for Using them To do as Men would be done to concerns all in all Ages but to practise Figures and Shadows in Religion we know does not A Church cannot be without one yet without the other Would it not be Ridiculous in any Man to adorn himself either as some eminent Commander or other Officer because it is required by Office or Place of every such one that really is so The Apostles baptized therefore must T. H The Apostles anointed with Oyl therefore should T. H Nay Christ washed his Disciples Feet telling them they ought or it was their Duty so to do one to the other therefore should T. H The Believers sold their Possessions and had all things Common but will T.H. either imitate or enjoyn this upon his Hearers But since T.H. and his Adherents do not several such things once done and enjoyned to as Blood Things Strangled Anointing with Oyl Washing of Feet c. why are they not to be as much blamed as we are for omitting that of Bread and Wine Or why should not they rather desist Practising of those with the rest and that upon the same terms I will warrant T.H. for going to Synagogues Decr●ing Hirelings Preaching Freely Exposing himself to all Hardship for the Gospel's sake which the Apostles did To conclude God never condescended to use such Things to lead to and hold forth the hidden Substance that People should rest there and much less in a Way of Opposition to the Substance it self such an Use of them has caused God to loath them and enjoyn us to testifie against them Remember the Instituted Brazen-Serpent of old c. what became of them in the like case We would be glad to see more Honesty Meekness and Godly-mindedness in our Opposers though there were less of this Imitation They are for such Commands as they call them which Hypocrites Apostates the False Church yea the Devil himself can come into but as for those that concern the Daily Cross and Victory over Sin they can Wickedly pl●●d a kind of Liberty from at least to their Unconquerable Infirmities as they are willing to believe them But we testifie against the False Church whose Faith Worship stands not in the Life Power and Spirit of God however deckt with the ancient Attire of the True for her finest Forms out of the Life and Power of God we renounce and as becomes the true Evangelical Church we assert That he is not a Jew or Christian who is one Outwardly neither is that now the Circumcision Baptism and Supper which is Outward but he is the Jew or Christian that is one Inwardly and that is the Circumcision that is of the HEART that the Baptism which is of the HOLY GHOST and FIRE and that the Supper which is of the BREAD THAT COMETH DOWN FROM ABOVE which gives Eternal Life to as many as eat thereof and that is of the WINE WHICH IS TO BE DRUNK NEW WITH CHRIST IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITHIN Luke 17.20 Much might be said in this matter but I refer the Reader to the Book entituled Quakerism a new Nick-Name for old Christianity However let it be noted that our Adversary is for Will-Worship and not the Quakers For we affirm that no Sacrifice nor Performance can be acceptable with God to
of the Darkness that hath covered the Earth the Superstition Idolatries humane Inventions Will-Worships Violence Cruelty Wantonness Intemperance Avarice and all manner of Vngodliness all are required to harken to the Lord's Voice to obey his Call to let him in and bring their Deeds unto the Light that Christ who is that true Light may discover the Enemy may bind him spoil his Goods and cast him out that he may reign over Thoughts Words and Deeds so shall such be able to say as David did O all that is within me praise his holy Name For Christ will be known as he is the Saviour of the Soul from Death the Restorer of Paths to dwell in who destroyes the Works of the Devil and brings in Everlasting Righteousness to the Soul And though few observe it That which is truly commend able in any People proceeds from the secret Power and Efficacy of that Inward Principle we so much testifie of 'T is that convinces discovers reproves restraines tenders humbles and affects the Soul and not their several Outward Forms which with Robbery to the Light or Grace within they are apt to attribute it to and whereby the Devil beguiles them into a Continuance of them Wherefore let all our Opposers be dehorted from their vehement out-crys for who withstand revile and set at naught this Blessed Appearance God the Lord of Heaven and Earth will break them to pieces if they come not to timely Repentance for it CHAP. IV. Of the True Evangelical Rule ANd this forever raises the Foundation of T. H's Building as indeed how can any thing so infirm long continue built upon Forgery and the hight of all Partiality who makes us Hereticks that he may be found and abusive that he may either shew his own Patience or colour his frequent base Revisings of us I say this overthrows his whole Discourse about the Scriptures being the Rule of Faith and Practice under the New Covenant For what ever is more Ancient more Vniversal and Able to Inform Rule and Guide that must eminently be the Rule but that has been and is the Light within consequently that has been and ought to be the Rule of Faith and Practice That it has been and ought still to be the Rule exprest is proveable thus That which led those holy Men into those things of which the Scripture is a Declaration must needs have been the Rule But that was the Principle of God within by what Name soever denominated That this is true let it suffice to say That who walked in the Light in any Age so far walkt in the Counsel of God And that all Mankind had an Ability from God so to do is our Belief what Abbridgement soever T. Hick's detestable Opinion of Reprobation may make of the Love of God That it ought still to continue to be the Rule of Faith and Life I prove thus That which is every where which makes manifest that which is displeasing and that which is acceptable to God without which the Scriptures are unintelligible and by living up to which Men only may come to witness the Truth of those things declar'd of in the Scriptures must be and ought to be the Rule of Faith c. But all this is true of the Light which is further proved thus The Light Thomas Hicks acknowledges all Men have The Light Thomas Hicks acknowledges all Men ought to attend unto Now unless some Man who hath lived unblameably up to the Light can give us a Demonstration of its Insufficiency to shew and teach him that further thing that God requires him to believe and do there can be no valid Argument against the Light 's Sufficiency If T.H. dare be the Man we shall joyn Issue with him in the Tryall of the Matter But if the Light be before hand with Man-kind furnishing him still with Work enough to do as it certainly ever hath done and still doth let it be known to T.H. that such as would know more of Christ's Doctrines must first do his Will according to what they do know And as it is the common Method of the Dealing of God towards the Sons of Men So is it great Impiety in any Man to infer or conclude Insufficiency to be in the Light to discover and teach Man what he ought to know and do from Man's Ignorance of all that he ought to know and do since the Ground of that Ignorance is his not doing what the Light of God requires from him as his present Duty to perform That the Scriptures are Vnintelligible without it is easily prov'd from the Variety of Judgments that are in the World about most of the Fundamental Doctrines contained therein as about God's Essence and Similitude Christ and the Spirit their Divinity Predestination Original Sin Free-Will Redemption Satisfaction Justification Faith and Works In short the whole End of Christs Coming Living and Dying they are strongly controverted Now were the Scriptures so clear capable to determine in these Matters the Differences would quickly end But since the utmost Ability they of themselves can give is not enough to render those Things obvious that are now doubtfull and disputable There is a Necessity of Man's Recourse to some other thing which is able to discover the Mind and Intendment of the holy Pen-Men Now I would be glad to know of any sober Man if any thing besides the Light shining into the Understanding is able to give true Sight Discerning and Judgment about the Points controverted would it not be reputed Madness to bid Men read that have no Eyes or if they have Eyes at least no Light to read with them The whole Scripture as it relates to Man's Duty is a Declaration of the woful State of Darkness and the blessed State of Light and Life with the Way of Translation out of the one into the other And was this Knowledge without Experience or by and through Experience I hope no Man will say the holy Pen-Men were not Witnesses of the things they wrote and if they were I would fain know by what other Way they came to understand and comprehend the Darkness that was within then by the Light within And to know the Temptations and Subtilties of the Spirit of Darkness the Discoveries Reproofs and Leadings of the Light the Tryals Travels Exercises and finally the perfect Translation so frequently expressed in these holy Writings but through the Manifestation of the Light of Christ in the Conscience their Obedience to it and ' its Operation to their Redemption and Sanctification So that the State of Judgment Repentance Remission Regeneration called the New Birth and perfect Justification were their Experiences or Witnessings for all T. Hicks from the Inward Work of God's Light upon their Hearts and their Souls which though the Scriptures declare of them they can never bring Man into nor can any Man groundedly aver the Truth of those things till he comes through Obedience to the Light in his own Conscience to
Works of another utterly excluded every Man reaping according to what HE hath sown and bearing HIS OWN Burden The Question will now be Whether I meant this of the Creature alone or by the Assistance of God's Holy Spirit by which his Children are led Concerning which I need say no more then what that Book speaks in my Defence yea that very Page from whence he fetches this pretended Dangerous Assertion For as many as are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God How clearly will it appear to any but a Cavilling and Tenacious Spirit that Man can be no further Justified then as he becomes obedient to the Spirit 's Leadings For if none can be a Son of God but HE that 's led by the Spirit of God then none can be justified without being led by the Spirit of God because none can be Justified but he that is a Son of God so that the Way to Justification and Son-ship is through Obedience to the Spirit 's Leadings By all which it appears that I am not speaking of Remission of Sins as if by our Conformity to the Spirit it self we could so justifie our selves No but that by being Led by the Spirit of God and Fulfilling of his Royal Law Men come to be accepted as Children of God and the Ground of their Joy is from their own Experience of the Work of God in them What was it made the Faithful Servants that improved their Talents be accepted and gave an Entrance to the Wise Virgins into the Bride-groom's Chamber Were it not the Improvements of the one and the Oyl in the Lamps of the other And if T. Hicks come not to know that holy State he shall never know Eternal Rejoycings that is the Word of Truth to him For such as he sows such shall he reap in God's Day of Account Wherefore that Scripture by him brought out of Isaiah makes greatly for us Surely shall one say in or from the Lord have I Righteousness that is not in or from my self In the Lord shall all the Seed of Israel be justified and shall glory Is there no being in the Life Power Nature and Virtue of that Seed then no Salvation Also that of the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians Christ is made unto us Righteousness wherefore let him that glorieth glory in the Lord. For this I affirm and that with Boldness and Truth that Isaiah and Paul speak of a Real and Inward Righteousness not the less in the Creature because not of the Creature but of Christ Was not Paul's Righteousness the Son of God revealed ●n him that everlasting Righteousness that Christ binding and casting out of the strong Man making an End of Sin and finishing of Transgression he brought and brings into the Soul For that their Righteousness should be in or from him or that he should be made their Righteousness they never know a being cloathed and made Righteous by it were Absurd and Impossible In short As we know no Righteousness out of Christ our Lord so knowing his Appearance in us and that Grace for Grace received of his Fulness in whom are hid the Treasures of Wisdom and Knowledge and being obedient thereunto we know and witness a Participation of his Everlasting Righteousness Holy Wisdom and Saving Knowledge which qualifie and adorn the Soul for the blessed Marriage of the Lamb who takes away the Sins of the World not only the Guilt of Sins past by Remission upon Repentance but as a Redeemer from under the Power and Nature of Sin present and to come through the Virtue of his Holy Life in the Soul which is the Compleatment of Justification and the Thing now insisted on Lastly he gives under the Quakers name as a dangerous Doctrine this Passage Justification goes not before but is consequential to the mortifying of Lusts and the Sanctification of the Soul Penn Sand. Found Sh. p. 27. To which he answers Doth not this import that a Man must be formally just before he be justified I would ask whether Remission of Sins be not one part of Justification Qua. I suppose it may Chr. Can one be forgiven that is not Guilty It looks like a Contradiction to pardon one that is Innocent Certainly he that is pardoned must be a Sinner To all which I return this much were he True and Honest in his Reasoning I had been to blame for my Ignoronce and T. Hicks to be commendable for his Answer but he dodges basely He would avoid my Argument about the second part of Justification by suggesting that I meant it of the first to wit Remission of Sins as much as if he had said What must all Sin be mortified before a Man be pardoned his old Score and can a Man 's own Good Works so remit Cancel or justifie But his Sleight will not do I have oft●n declared that upon Repentance God doth not impute past Iniquity to any therefore that part of his Answer which seems most smart upon me that is Can one be forgiven that is not Guilty c. vanisheth of Course for the Question is not Whether Man in his natural Estate is Guilty before God and such can be no otherwise so justified that is Remitted then by the free Love of God which is the first part of Justification as David speaks Blessed is the Man unto whom the Lord will not impute Sin But whether Men are daily accepted as Children of God redeemed and saved of the Lord and justified as such in his Presence further than as they come to be led by his holy Spirit and know Victory over Sin which is the second part of Justification So that he did dishonestly with me to suggest my Denyal of Remission of Sins past upon any other Score then the Mortification of Sin in the Party so pardoned For though Sin may not be mortified yet if there be a Foundation of true Repentance laid the Guilt of former Iniquities I have often said is not imputed It was therefore very unfairly done of him from my Asserting daily Acceptance and Fellowship with God to be the Consequent of a Self-denying and mortified Life through the powerful Working of the Spirit of Christ in Man to infer that before this Work was done there could be no Remission of Sins past as if it were the procuring Cause of Pardon and not the free Love of God upon Repentance In short it is to say that because I deny Men may be justified in the second Sense without being made truly and really Just that therefore Men are to be made Just and Innocent before they are forgiven which is Justification in the first Sense And thus has he dodg'd disingenuously with me throughout this Point Where I meant by Justification Remission of Sins he has run It the other way And when I have understood it of a State of Fellowship and daily Acceptance with God then he has taken it for Remission with manifest Design to render me as confus'd
and in which his Holy Spirit leads not by the which only Self is abas'd kept under and in perfect Obedience to and watchfull Observance of God's Holy Will But Tho. Hicks makes this a Strange and Dangerous Doctrine insinuating that we perform nothing but upon a kind of Spiritual Compulsion as if that God required Man to do all his Commandements without his holy Spirit alwayes ready to incline and help them either to begin or perform any such Duty or that there were no Difference between waiting for the natural Springs of Divine Power to assist and being compell'd to worship But this shews his great Ignorance of God's Spirit its dayly Movings upon the Heart of Men either as a Reprover or Comforter for Good for were he better acquainted with its Dealings it would not be so uncouth to him to hear of our Waiting to feel the holy Stirrings of it in order to every Religious Performance wherefore let not his Ignorance be any Argument against our holy Gospel Practice The Saints of old had a Warrant in themselves for what they did They were not wont to run into the Imitation of former Generations as to any External Appointments because then commanded and practised as proper but consulted the Anointing they had receiv'd about the Continuation or Dis-use of such Figures or outward Services and as they receiv'd Wisdom and Counsel therefrom either to use or decline the Practice of them they acted and no otherwise making good the Apostles Saying that as many as are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God Are we led by It in ALL things then in and about God's things Had it not been for this how could the Apostles have preach'd down the whole Ceremonial Worship of the Jews The meer Letter of Scriptures could never have been their Rule in the Case If any say they were extraordinarily Inspired I answer how did such as then believ'd know that if not from an Inward Testimony Nay what Rule had the many Thousands then to worship God by The Hebrew Bible was little or not at all known to the Gentiles The Scripture tells us that whole Churches were setled in the Faith before the Epistles were writ And it is hard to think when they were writ that they could be suddenly collected and when collected that every Individual could get a Coppy that to be sure ought to have a Rule for Printing was not so early in the World and Transscribing must needs have been to Irksome for every Person to obtain a Coppy for his or her peculiar Benefit But because we are taught to believe that they wanted not True Rule of Faith and Practice and that the Scriptures especially of the new Testament could not be all that to them our present Adversaries conclude to make the great Rule let them not be displeas'd if I infer from hence that a Measure of that Holy Spirit which was given to every one to profit with was their Rule and therefore ought to be our great Rule and Guide in all things relating to Faith and Worship And let it be remembred that Christ promised to send the Spirit of Truth to lead into all Truth as much as to say none are led into the Truth nor in the Truth but by the holy Spirit of Truth or that their Practice is a Ly or they are led into a Ly who are not led by the Spirit of Truth that alone leads into all the Wayes of Truth where by Truth is not to be understood the meer Letter of the Scripture which notwithstanding is True but the Living Powerful Truth Christ the Way the Truth and the Life of which the Scripture is but a Record or Declaration Many may run into a Practice of several Outward Things mentioned in the Scriptures to have been the Practices of the Saints of former Ages and yet not be led into the Truth for all that is but Will-Worship Imitation and Unwarrantable To be led into the Truth is to be led into God's Living Power Wisdom and Righteousness whose Fruits are Peace and Assurance for ever This is the Truth the Spirit leads and is all-sufficient to Certainly Christ intended This for the Great Evangelical Leader Rule Judge Law-giver and Guide through the whole course of Regeneration the only Way into the Everlasting Kingdom And all those who are not by this Holy Spirit prepared moved and assisted to perform Divine Worship unto God but run into that weighty Duty or any other supposed Ordinance without its pure Leadings which makes it a Spiritual and Living Worship they are but those anciently fore-told of LORD LORD-CRYERS whose Portion shall be that dismal Depart from me I know you not who has requir'd these things at your hands Let this therefore be a Warning unto all Professors in the Name of the Lord that they run no longer Vnsent nor think to be accepted for their many Words God regards the Heart that he has broken and is made contrite before him and which trembles at his Word 'T is not meer Worship but that which is Spiritual which he expects and accepts and to perform that Man must Cease from his own Spirit Strength Strivings and Imitations and become Dumb before the Lord and as a Man dead to Self-Performance and then will he breath into him the Spirit of Supplication and raise him up in the Newness of his own Divine Life whereby though but in Sighs and Groans a Spiritual and most Acceptable Worship shall be offered unto God in which his Soul will be well pleased and every such one come to be refresht and establisht in Righteousness For all Offerers and Vpholders of strange Fire of what sort of People soever they may be in the Great and Notable Day of the Lord God will he cause to lie down in Sorrow And because he thinks his Advantage is not small that he hath against us by basely inferring and aggravating such Consequences as this What of Duty we neglect we are to charge upon the Spirit 's not moving us to it or because we must not obey without a Motion we are acquitted from all Fault till then c. Let me tell him that he striketh himself and not the Quakers For they hold that God's Spirit ought to be daily waited for And that it is alwayes ready to inform and instruct Man's Soul and to move it to those Thoughts Words and Deeds with respect to God and Man as are Well-pleasing to the Almighty For we do not only teach that the Spirit of God is alwayes present to convince of Sin but to lead out of it and in that Way of holy Living which is well-pleasing unto God In short God's Worship stands in the Spirit and I testifie from the Eternal God all other Worship then what springs from a Mind touch'd sanctify'd and mov'd of his holy quickning Spirit is abominable to him His Righteous Soul loathes it And what else were their Sacrifices as theirs were who in my hearing said Pray