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B04528 The lavvfulnes of hearing the publick ministers of the Church of England proved, by Mr. Philip Nye and Mr. John Robinson, two eminent Congregational divines. Together with the judgment of Dr. Goodwin, Dr. Owen, and other independents, as well ancient as modern, concerning forms of prayer, parish-churches, and communion with them: and the judgment of other nonconformists about kneeling at the sacrament. Nye, Philip, 1596?-1672.; Robinson, John, 1575?-1625. 1683 (1683) Wing N1496; ESTC R203023 37,350 46

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People in his holy Ordinances and half imagining that they draw near enough to God if they can withdraw far enough from other Men. Great Zeal they have against the false Church Ministry and Worship so being or by them conceived so to be and against any appearing evil in the true but little for that which is true and good as their practice manifests But Evil is as contrary to Evil as Good is to Evil and so is that Zeal plainly carnal which carries a Man further against Evil than for Good seeing no Evil is so evil as Good is good Fourthly There are some to be found so sowred with moodiness and discontentment as they become unsociable and almost Lukanthropoi Werewolfs as they speak if they see nothing lamentable they are ready to lament if they take contentment in any it is in them alone whom they find discontented if they reade any Books they are only Invectives especially against Publick States and their Governours All things tending to accord and union any manner of way are unwelcome unto them They have their Portion in Ishmael's Blessing Gen. 16.12 Lastly There want not some who as Jehu in his fierce marching covered his Ambition Cruelty and Zeal for his own House under pretext of Zeal for God's think to cover and palliate their both grosser and more proper and personal Corruptions under a furious March not only against the Failings but the Persons also failing of Infirmity in matters of Church-Order and Ordinances Who if they were well acquainted and duly affected with their own both more voluntary and greater Sins would slack their Jehu's Peace yea turn their Course tho not to walk with others in Evil which God forbid yet to apply and accommodate themselves unto them in that which is good so far as possibly they could observe any way by the Lord opened unto them I could instance in and name divers particular Persons monstrously grown out of kind this way But that Course I leave unto them who rather desire the disgracing than the bettering of them against whom they deal Or perhaps conceive in their leavened Hearts that there is no other way of bettering specially Persons of mean Condition than by disgracing them But let not my Soul come in their Secret in whose Habitations are such Instruments of Cruelty Gen. 49.5 6. These things thus premised the Objections follow which I have either heard from others or can conceive of my self most colourable against the Practice by me propounded And they are of two sorts Some of them are framed upon Supposition that the Ministers in that Church are in themselves lawful and of God but now yet to be heard by reason of the Abuses and Evils to be found in their Ministrations Others withdraw herein and those the more upon the contrary Supposition To wit that the very Order and Constitution of that Church and Ministry is Papal and unlawful Now the Examination of the Grounds of the one or other I will not in this place meddle with but though both cannot be true will for the satisfying of the with-drawers on both Parts grant for the present to either Part their Ground and so examine distinctly what Exceptions they can or do build thereupon But first for the former Supposing a Church and the Ministry thereof essentially lawful it cannot but be lawful for the Members of other Churches in general Union and Association with it to communicate therewith in things lawful and lawfully done seeing the end of Union is Communion God hath in vain united Persons and States together if they may in nothing communicate together But he who would have us receive the weak in Faith whom God hath received would not have us refuse the Fellowship of Churches in that which is good for any Weakness in them of one sort or other And this we have so plainly and plentifully commended unto us both by the Prophets yea by Christ himself in the Jewish Church and Apostles and Apostolical Men in the first Christian Churches in which many Errors and Evils of all kinds were more than manifest and the same oft-times both so far spread and deeply rooted as the reforming of them was rather to be wished than hoped for As that no place is left for doubting in that case by any who desire to follow their holy Steps in Faith towards God and Charity towards Men and effectual Desire of their own Edification The Objections of the former sort follow Object 1. There is danger of being seduced and misled by the Errors taught in the Assemblies Answ 1. We must not lose the Benefit of many main Truths taught for danger of some few Errors specially in lesser matters This were to fear the Devil more than to trust God 2. There were in the Jewish Church in Christ's time and in divers of the Apostolical Churches afterwards more and greater Errors taught than are in any or all the Churches in England of which also there are not a few which if their Ministers did as fully and faithfully teach and practise all Truths as they keep themselves carefully from Errors might compare in this Business with any reformed Church in Europe 3. This Exception hath its weight against the hearing of Priests and Jesuits specially by the weaker sort and less able to discern of things that differ But not against many Ministers of the Church of England Object 2. He that in any thing partakes with that Church in which Sins known are suffered unreformed partakes in all the Sins of that Church as he that swears by the Altar swears by the Offerings upon it which it sanctifies Mat. 23.19 20. Answ I partake not in the Sins of any how great or manifest soever the Sins be or how near unto me soever the Persons be except the same Sins either be committed or remain unreformed by my Fault Otherwise Christ our Lord had been inwrapped in the Guilt of a world of Sins in the Jewish Church with which Church he communicated in God's Ordinances living and dying a Member thereof If my Brother sin a scandalous Sin and I by just order make Complaint thereof to the Church I have done my Duty It appertains to the Church to excommunicate him if he repent not but not to me except Pope-like I would make my self the Church I am guilty of the Evil in the Commonwealth and Family for redressing whereof I do not my duty in my place which if I do in the Church as I can I am free from the Sins done and suffered there which Sins and Evils I can no more be said to suffer wanting power to reform them than to suffer it to blow or rain because I hinder it not But the proof of the Assertion from Mat. 13. is of admirable device How doth the Church sanctify the Sin of the Sinner as the Altar doth the Offering of the Offerer The Altar makes that to become actually an Offering or holy Gift which before was not an Offering actually but only Gold