Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	die_v	john_n	sir_n	12,112	5	5.7810	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A27058	The true history of councils enlarged and defended against the deceits of a pretended vindicator of the primitive church, but indeed of the tympanite & tyranny of some prelates many hundred years after Christ, with a detection of the false history of Edward Lord Bishop of Corke and Rosse in Ireland ... and a preface abbreviating much of Ludolphus's History of Habassta : written to shew their dangerous errour, who think that a general council, or colledge of bishops, is a supream governour of all the Christian world ... / by Richard Baxter ... ; to which is added by another hand, a defence of a book, entituled, No evidence for diocesan churches ...	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.	1682 (1682)	Wing B1438; ESTC R39511	217,503	278

fact yea the most publick of the persons place and time which our senses have given us notice of that we must believe them with as great difficulty as we must believe Transubstantiation even in opposition to all our senses and experience And whether those men be fit Vindicaters of the Bishops and Councils above a Thousand years ago which are blamed by the Historians of their own Age and by their own Confessions and by their most servent Defenders who notoriously misreport the persons and actions of their own Place and Age I think it is not hard to judge I will instance in Twenty particulars of publick notice for those against particular persons even my self are not to be numbred I. It is now commonly taken for true that the present Nonconformists who gave in their Desires for Concord 1660. are of the same Judgment as those called Nonconformists heretofore and whatever can be raked up out of Christ Goodman Knox Kilby or is reported by Bancroft is partly chargeable on them when as their proposed Desires yet shew the world that they never made any motion against many things by those aforesaid scrupled in Doctrine Worship and Ceremony And it is commonly supposed by them that the present Conformity is but the same as the Old and the Case no harder to us And this notwithstanding all the still visible Acts and Alterations and Additions which attest the contrary to all the world II. In most of their Invectives the present Nonconformists are argued against as if they had been in the Civil War against the King or had been guilty of it more than the Conformists And that War is made a Reason of their Silencing whereas so few of them had any hand in it that I have many times told them that if they will Silence none but those that they can prove guilty of any War or Rebellion or Sedition the rest of us will give them a thousand Thanks though we suffer our selves Few of the present Nonconformists were then in the Ministry and of those few that were few now living meddled with War III. They are so confident that the Parliament and Army that began the War in England were Nonconformists yea Presbyterians and not of the Church of England that Mr. Hinkley here Mr. Morrice make a renouncing of their Senses or Understandings necessary to the believing of it And yet they might as well tell us that they were all Turks or Papists Are not a Parliament and an Army things publick enough to be known in the same Age When we name to them the Chief Lords and Commons and Chief Commanders yet and lately living who are known still to live in their own Communion and when we challenge them to name Three Presbyterians that were then in the House of Lords or the House of Commons or many that were at first Commanders in the Army and we name them the Men that then Commanded who were commonly known to be Conformists of the Church of England And if they will not believe their present practice and profession they may yet go to them and be satisfied from their own mouths what were their former Principles I have told them of a most credible Member of that Parliament yet living who hath ost profest to me that he knew but one Presbyterian in the House of Commons when the war began and I have named that one man to them to try if they can name another I expect not that they should believe me or such other concerning those whom we knew But they may believe the men themselves yet living their most familiar Friends Yea the Records of many foregoing Parliaments with Laua's Life written by Dr. Heylin fully sheweth them that the difference arose 1. About the fear of Popery and Arminianism as they thought tending towards it 2. About Property Loan-mony Knight-mony and after Ship-mony c. 3. About Imprisonment of members and other Gentlemen And these were still the quarrel But saith Mr. M. How then shall we believe our senses Ans See Reader whether his most confident Errours about past things be any wonder He is not so sure of what he saith of the old Prelates or the Nestorians Eutychians c. as he is that he must believe his Senses And his very senses tell him that a Parliament even Lords Commons and an Army many of whom are yet living were of another opinion in Religion than ever they were then acquainted with and which was known to very few in England till afterward And this contrary to their Profession and practice and the senses of their acquaintance Lords are Persons of so publick notice that they may easily yet be informed of the living and the dead In the Army the Chief Commanders were the E. of Essex the E. of Bedford yet living Sir John Merrick the E. of Peterborough Dolbiere the E. of Stamford the Lord Hastings E. of Huntington the Lord Rochford E. of Dover the Lord Fielding E. of Denbigh the Lord Mandevile E. of Manchester the Lord Roberts now Earl of Radnor and President of his Majesties Council the Lord St. Johns killed at Keim●n Fight Only the Lord Say and Lord Brook were known Independents and whether the Lord Wharton yet living was then for Bishops or against them I know not but all the rest were of the Church of England And so were the other Collonels Sir Henry Cholmley the late Lord Hollis Col. Will. Bampfield Col. Tho. Grantham Col. Tho. Ballard C. Sir William Fair fax Col. Charles Essex Col. Lord Willoughby of Parham Col. Sir Will. Waller Col. Edwin Sandys Cap. Lord Grey of Grooby and I think then Sir Will. Constable and Col. Hampden What mind Sir Will. Balfoore was of I know not But I know his Country man Col. Brown was too far from a Puritane But saith Mr. M. 1. It 's well the Bishops had no share in it Ans Let Heylin tell you what hand the difference between A. Bishop Abbats Church of England and Laud's then little Party had in the preparations 2. And was the A. Bishop of York no Bishop who afterward was a Commander for the Parliament But saith he I pray where were the Presbyterians when the Parliament took up Arms Were they not then in being Ans An excellent Historian that maintaineth Parliament and Army were such as he knows not whether they were then in being Yes Sir they were in Holland and France and Geneva and Scotland and in England there was one John Ball and one Mr. Langley and a few more such old Nonconformists that never were in Arms and old John Dod and one Mr. Geree that was against the war and dyed for grief of the Kings death But among those called Puritans few knew what Presbytery was till the Scots afterward brought it in Much less did Lords Commons and Army know it In your sense Sir they were not then in being and therefore could not fight It appears by Bancroft and others that there had been once

begun The Scots Commissioners by degrees acquainted them with Presbytery and Mr. Burton's Protestation Protested and the five Dissenters with Independency Two or three Independents were in the House of Lords and some few in the House of Commons It was Episcopal-men that made up the main Body These were of two sorts The one sort thought Episcopacy of Divine Institution but not Chancellors Deans and Chapters Arch-Deacons Officials c. The other sort thought that Episcopacy not rampant was the best Government Jure humano But that the Magistrate being Chief might set it up or take it down as he see most for the common good These were called by some Erastians And that these at first were inconsiderable is History written in despight of Evidence Let any man 1. Read what Parliaments formerly said 2. And what many English Divines wrote for the Jus humanum against the Jus Divinum and what Testimony Prin hath given of it 3. And what Dr. Stillingfleet hath produced for it in his Irenicon 4. And how commonly it was owned by Conformists then in Conserence 5. And how commonly the Lawyers were for the Humane Right 6. Yea and the Civilians themselves and then let him take this Historian's word if he tell Posterity that the Parliament and Army were not English men IV. These Historians candidly tell the world that the Nonconformists who offered their Desires for Concord 1660. were Presbyterians and so are most of the Nonconformists now Whereas they never made one motion for Presbytery for Lay-Elders for Ruling Classes or Assemblies nor against Episcopacy but only offered the Paper called A. Bishop Usher's Reduction of Episcopacy to the Primitive Form wherein neither A. Bishops nor Bishops nor Deans and Chapters Archdeacons were taken down or any of their Revenues Lordships or Parliament-Power This is Presbytery with these Historians V. They make the world believe that the main Body of the Conformists are such as suffered for the King or complied not with the Directory and Times of Usurpation Whereas it 's publickly notorious that there are about 9000 Parish-Churches in England besides many hundred Chappels many Churches that had more than one Minister And almost all these complied with the Times or Directory as the Nonconformists did And of all these it was but about 2000 that Conformed not so that 7000 or 8000 of them that had kept in did on a sudden turn Conformists And divers that had been in Arms for the Parliament Yea some that had written for the Engagement when I wrote against it yea some that had spoken or written tantum non a Justification of the Killing of the King And of those that joyned with us in our Proposals for Concord Dr. Worth and Dr. Reignolds were made Bishops and divers others did Conform VI. These Historians would make the world believe that the Present Church and such as they did more than the Parliamentarians and Presbyterians and Nonconformists to restore the King when it is notoriously known how oft their Attempts were defeated and what the Scots Army under Hamilton underwent to say nothing of the next and of the Lord Delamore's Attempt and what the Restored Parliament did But sure I am that the Old Parliament Souldiers and Presbyterian Commanders and Souldiers in General Monk's Army with those in England and Ireland that joyned with him and Sir Thomas Allen Lord Mayor with the Londoners at the persuasion of the Presbyterian Ministers drawing General Monk to joyn with them did the main work which the Council and Parliament after finished When most of these men that will not endure the oblivion of Discords nor the Reconciling and Union of the King's Subjects do but start up to revile others and blow the Coals again and reap the fruit of other mens labours that desire but to live in Peace VII That there are able worthy men that Conform we are far from denying and we earnestly desire their Concord and the success of their Labour and I hope love them as our selves But whereas the History of this Party doth proclaim how much better and abler Ministers than the Nonconformists are generally put into their Places that are no Novices or Ignorant Youths no Drunkards nor scandalous but more laborious skilful Labourers I will say nothing but let the Countries judge VIII And whether it be true that there is no need of the Nonconformists Ministry but the Churches are sufficiently supplied without them both as to the number and quality of their Teachers I have in my Apology enquired and with godly men it 's easily judged IX And whether it be true that it was only for the Kings or Bishops cause that the Parliament put out all or most of them that were heretofore removed I leave to the Witnesses and Articles against them I am sure I and my neighbour Ministers petitioned that none that were tolerable pious Ministers might be put out for being for the King or Bishops X. It is commonly now recorded and reported that the Presbyterians and those that now conform not put down Catechizing and turned the Creed Lords prayer and Decalogue out of the Church Service Whereas if some few Independents did any of this it is more than I know but in all our Countrey and where I came I remember no Churches that did not use the Creed openly at their baptizing any and the Decalogue frequently read out of Exod. 20. or Deut. 5. and the Lords prayer frequently as we did constantly But some thought that we were not bound to use it every time they prayed And the Directory commendeth all these to them And all our Countrey agreed not only to Catechize publickly but to take larger time on the week daies to Catechize every family XI These Historians say that I and such others take the things which we conform not to to be but inconveniences and not sins And that we keep the Nation in Schisme while we confess the things to be but Indifferent And our writings are visible in which we profest the contrary and laboured by many arguments to prove it and protested that we would conform if we took them not to be sins And we gave in a Catalogue of what we judged to be sins And this before the New Conformity was imposed And since the fiercest displeasure is against us for telling them what we account Sin and how great When many years together our Rulers and the People were told that we confessed them indifferent and refused them but to avoid offending our followers XII We frequently hear from them that we oppose Episcopacy because we cannot be Bishops our selves When it s known that nothing could more put men out of all such hopes than the Presbyterians Endeavours that both their power and wealth should be taken down And he that hath any desires of a Bishoprick should sure be for the keeping of them up And the same men reprove us for refusing Bishopricks and Deanries and say we did it to please the People XIV The

vi regia tuebatur Congregati apud Treveros Episcopi there 's another Synod tenebantur qui quotidie communicantes Ithacio communem sibi causam secerant His ubi nunciatum est ●●opinantibus adesse Martinum totis animis labesacti mussitare trepidare coeperunt Nec dubium erat quin Sanctorum etiam maximam turbam tempestas ista depopulatura esset Et enim tunc solis oculis discernunt inter hominum genera cum quis Pallore potius aut Veste quam fide haereticus aestimaretur Haec nequaquam placitura Martino Episcopi faciebant Ineunt cum Imperatore Consilium ut m●ssis obviam Magistri officialibus urbem istam Martinus vetaretur propius accedere But it was not five Miles from all Cities and Corporations Interea Episcopi quorum communionem Martinus non in ibat trepidi ad Regem concurrunt per damnatos se conquerentes actum esse de suo omnium statu si Theognisti pertinaciam qui eos SOLUS palam lata sententia condemnaverat Martini armaret authoritas Non oportuisse hominem capimoenibus illis Non jam desensorem haereticorum esse sed vindicem Methinks I read Mr. Morrice Nihil actum morte Priscilliani si Martinus exerceat illius ultionem These men have done nothing till they have destroy'd all that are against their Tyranny Postremo prostrati cum fletu they could weep too lamentatione Potestatem Regiam implorant ut ut atur adversus UNUM hominem vi sua Nec multum aberat quin cogeretur Imperator Martinum cum haereticorum sorte miscere But the Emperour knowing his eminent Holiness and Reputation tryeth persuasion blande appellat haereticos jure damnatos more judiciorum publicorum potius quam in sectationibus Sacerdotum Non esse causam qua Ithacii caet erorumque partis ejus communionem putaret esse damnandam Theognistum odio potius quam causa fecisse dissidium Eundemque tamen SOLUM esse qui se à communione interim separavit a reliquis nihil novatum You see here that M. M. saith truly that Martin separated but from the Bishops of Ithacius's Party That is All save one Theognistus and Iginus is elsewhere named Is not here a great accord of the Bishops Quinetiam paucos ante dies habita Synodus Synods still Ithacium pronunciaverat culpa non teneri no wonder Synods have justified the forbidding of two thousand to Preach the Gospel At last when no other Remedy could save the Lives of men from the Leeches Martin yielded once to communicate with the Bishops on condition the mens Lives should be saved The Bishops would have had him Subscribe this Communion But that he would never do Posterodie inde se proripiens cum revertens in viam moestus ingemisceret se vel ad horam noxiae communioni esse permixtum subsedit causam doloris facti accusante defendente cogitatione pervolvens astitit ei repente Angelus Merito inquit Martine compungeris sed aliter exire nequisti Repara virtutem resume Constantiam ne jam non periculum gloriae sed salutis incurreris Itaque ab illo tempore satis cavit cum illa Ithacianae partis communione misceri Caeterum cum quosdam ex inergumenis tardius quam solebat gratia minore curabat subinde nobis cum lachrymis fatebatur se propter communionis illius malum cui se vel puncto temporis necessitate nonspiritu miscuisset detrimentum sentire virtutis Sedecim postea vixit annos Nullam Synodum adiit ab omnibus Conventibus se removit Now Reader judge how great Ithacius's Party was that boasted but one or two men were against them And whether Martin separated not from their common Synods Methinks I see Mr. M. here in the strait of the Pharisees when put to answer whether John's Baptism was from Heaven or of men Fain he would make Martin and Sulpitius Puritanes and Fanaticks but the Church hath made a Holy day for Martin and dedicated multitudes of Temples to his Honour and all men reverence Sulpitius and him Yet he ventures to go as far as he durst p. 142. against them § 10. But here Mr. M. smarteth and saith This Instance could become none worse than Mr. B. who in a Letter to Dr. Hill confesses himself to have been a Man of Blood Answ A Man of Blood is your Libertine Phrase If you would have published that secret Letter you should 1. Have told the whole and worded it truly 2. And have professed your self a derider of Repentance while you call for it I lived in an Age of War and I was on the Parliaments side and that was enough to prove that I had a hand in blood while I was on one side though I never drew blood of any man my self save once a Boy at School with boxing But he thinks I should have imitated Martin in renouncing Communion with men of blood Answ Martin renounced Communion with those that were for destroying even downright Hereticks Alas Sir I dare not renounce Communion with these that Silence thousands of faithful Ministers and continue still to Plead Preach and Write for their Prosecution by Imprisonment and Ruine I hope many do it in Ignorance and if I do it it may increase the distance that I would heal Nonconformists are no Priscillianists And if I renounce Communion with all that were in Wars it must be with some present Bishops and a great part of the Land But I understand you it must be with all that were in Arms for the Parliament c. Answ The King then will condemn me by his Act of Oblivion and by his own practice Hath he not one of them for the Lord President of his Council and many more in Trust and Honour Did he renounce Communion with General Monk and his whole Army who were long in Arms for the Parliament Or with the Citizens and multitudes of Commanders through the Land who drew in encouraged General Monk Or the Ministers that persuaded Sir Tho. Allen Lord Mayor to draw him in To be plain with you Sir though you call it Railing Men of your Faculty kindled the Fire and set the Nation together by the Ears and when sad experience brought them to repentance and to desire unity and peace and those that had fought for the Parliament had restored the King this evil Spirit envyeth the Kingdom the benefit of this concord and would fain break us again into contending Parties and will not let King and Kingdom have peace while God giveth us peace from all foreign enemies Do we need any other notice what a Contentious Clergy have still been than the woful experience of what they are If you would have had G. Monk and his Army and all such that joyned with him destroyed or excommunicate for what they had done why did you not speak out at first but when we would all fain have peace and concord thus twenty years after cast your Wild-fire you warn the Present Duke