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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A67646	A defence of the innocency of the lives, practice, and doctrine of the English preists [sic], Jesuits, and papists relating to the crimes of murther and treason, vnjustly charged on them by E.C. in his narrative wherein are discouered his grosse mistakes, his wilfull falsifications, his shamefull falshoodes, and his groundlesse vniust accusations of the English papists.	Warner, John, 1628-1692.	1680 (1680)	Wing W908A; ESTC R221952	27,739	33

the canon we do not think that God hath giuen vs any leaue to sin In the Glosse when the Action is dubious whether it be good or bad w● must judge fauourably of the Pope If it be of its own nature bad as Adultery or MVRTHER we must own that he sins in it althô there be no man to whom he ought to be accused by reason of the dignity of the first Chair You see sir that the glosse says iust the contrary to what you cite out of it for it says the Pope sins by murther you make it say murther is no sin in a Pope E. C. pag. 6. As yet we haue not proued vpon them their KING KILLING doctrine pray let one quotation supply for all I think it is such an one as is sull home to the Point Suarez l. 6. ad M. B. Regem 1.24 says A King if he be once excommunicated may be deposed or slain by any person whomsoeuer that with impunity Therefor it is past all manner of doubt but that they h●ld it exreamely Lawfull Answer It is past all manner of doubt that you hold it extreamely Lawfull to tell any kind of lyes falsify any Authours you please prouided it may concontribute to charge some odious opinion on Papists how contrary soeuer it be to the Authours you cite Suarez hauing written that Proposition immediatly addes Haec Propositio simpliciter sumpta est falsissima This Proposition absolutely taken is most false What say you Christian Reader is this fair play what cannot these men proue at this rate out of any Authour by making him say what he condemnes condemn what he says What credit do they deserue who discouer so little sense of Truth honesty shame of men or feare of God These are his proofes of our holding Murther to be Lawfull which he doth not 1. because there is not one word cited out of any English Catholick 2. Nor out of any other aliue 3. He falsitys impudently all he cites CHAPTER 6. Catholicks practice no Treason E. C. pag. 7. What was the offence of the Cittizens of Toulouse Auignon when P. Gregory IX Set Lewis the French King to war against them their Earl Raymundus without cause but only that of their Religion where the sayd King dyed at the siege Answ Here are two greate vntruths The first that there was no cause of that war besides Religion There were two wars made vpon the Albigenses The first by Simon Monfort with the forces of the King of France Lewis VIII Soveraign Lord of the Earle of Toulouse for hauing killed an Embassador or Legat against the law of nations The second by Lewis himselfe for their Herely Rebellion So neither war was on the score of Religion purely The second vntruth is that the King of France dyed at the siege He finisht the war vnited those Countryes to the crowne on his way home he dyed at Monpensier in Auvergn See De Serres a Huguenot E. C. p. 7. You giue many instances of crueltys shewed towards Hereticks in Cabrieras Merindol Prouenc Vassy Germany the Lowcountryes c. To all I answer they were rebels stood in open defiance of the Ancient Laws establisht of their Princes commands E. C. p. 7. Pray for the fuller satisfaction in this thing beside D. Fowlis his History of their Rebellions Treasons read the vngratefull be hauiour of the Papists Priests towards the Imperial Indulgent crown of England Answ I will not vndertake to vindicate the actions of all Papists that haue been I speake for those aliue If any here to fore were really guilty of Treason I excuse them not yet the late proceedings against Catholicks althô certainly Innocent yet charged with the most heauy Accusations imaginable ground a suspition that their Ancestors may haue had hard measure in that kind Howeuer if our fore fathers left any blot on their Religion by some illegall attempts Catholicks since haue washt it out with their Bloud And I pray God with all my hart that all Protestants were as faith full to the Royal interest as Papists are In your pages 8. 9. I find nothing worth mentioning but a saying of Aeneas Syluius that nothing is giuen at Rome but for mony not euen jmposition of hands what you cite out of Caramuel that a Priest may kill a Detractor As to Aeneas Syluius he recalled all those writings being made Pope Pius II. This is so fals that Absolution which is one imposition of hands was neuer refused any man vpon score of Pouerty And as for Caramuel that proposition is condemned by Alexander VIII Caramuel hath no credit euen in his own order he is a Bernardin his writings being forbidden amongst them vnder great Penaltys E. C. p. 10. The Pope is called by Papists our Lord God the Pope Answer those words are found but once that in a Glossa which sort of writings are little regarded by our Divines Howeuer you haue no reason to reproach vs with that expression who say the same of all Kings pag. 16. of all men pag. 21. E. C. p. 11. Bellarmin says God hath giuen to the Pope the Power to make sin to be no sin no sin to be sin Answer this imports no more then that God gaue the Pope to oblige by his laws the conscience of the Faithfull in things indifferent viz eating flesh on a wednesday which of it self is no sin but is a sin when forbidden But Bellarmin expressely says that the Pope cannot make Lawfull a thing of it self cuil as Theft or Murther nor vnlawfull a thing of it self good as the loue of God E. C. p. 11. What could stirr the Roman Catholicks vp to that dreadfull Rebellion massacre in Ireland where in cold Blood were murdered aboue 100000. Protestants without the least prouocation but only the Indispensable necessity to kill Hereticks Answer The late King knew other reasons These are his words The preposterous vigour vnreasonable seuerity which some men carryed before them in England was not the least incenture that kinaled blew vp into those horrid flames the despair of discontent which wanted not predisposed fewel for Rebellion in Ireland where Dispayre being added to their former discontens the Feares of vtter extirpation to their wonted oppressions it was easy to prouoke to an open Rebellion a People prone enough to breake out to all exorbitant violence both by some Principles of their Religion the natural desire of Liberty both to exempt themselues from their present restraints to preuent those after rigours where with they saw themselues apparently threatned by the Couetous zeale vn●haritable fury of some men who think it a greate argument of the Truth of their Religion to endure no other but their own The Rebells were exasperated to the most desperate Resolutions Actions by being threatned with all extremitys not only to the knowne heads cheise Incendiarys but euen to the whole community

Catholicks particularly Iesuits are ready to declare publickly when it shall be legally or by Publicke Authority required of them CHAPTER I. Reflections on the Preface Where of the pretended danger hanging over libellers against Catholicks E C Being very sensible how much this small treatise will expose me to the industrious malice hatred of all stiff positiue Papists _____ My cheife businesse was to find out one that would boldly stand vp with me in the same defence and be ready to iustify the truth honest sincerity of these following sheetes Answer Jt is a common Topick for all who accuse Catholecks to encrease the Odium against them recommend their own zeale for the common good to the Publicke benevolence by representing the dangers they expose themselues to by discouering the faults the conspiracies the murthers the Treasons of the Papists As if the Protection of the Law the security of the publick Peace the vigilancy of Magistrates the number of Libelling Ministers factious malicious scriblers were not a sufficient Protection against a few disarmed men for the most part Prisoners but either by Authority a gard must be appointed for euery libeller or else by their whining complaints of imaginary dangers they would engage others without Authority in any illegal Association for mutuall defence I leaue to our venerable Iudges to declare whither this stand with the law and his Majesty's most honourable priuy Council to consider whither it do not endanger the Publicke Peace Whence this Panick Feare of an inconsiderable number of men all disarmed most of them ether imprisoned or banisht From a bad conscience which in the midst of Peace the greatest security always thinks of dangers Cum Pax sit ipse semper insidias suspicatur Job 15.21 And the wicked fly when no body pursues them Prou. 28.1 This is the miserable condition of sinners says S. Chrisost Hom. 8. ad Pop. Antioch They suspect all things they feare shaddows they tremble at the least noyse no body whispers but they think it is against them no body moues but they surmise it is to attack them Such is the nature of sin it discouers itsself althô none else dreame of it arraignes the guilty person without any other witnesses condemnes him at the Tribunal of his owne conscience from which sentence there is no appeale Hence he flyes though no body pursues him thinking that euery man he sees or phansies is his Executioner Is not this a Picture of these Champions of the Protestant Church Accusers of Papists Is not this danger alleadged framed by their owne guilty conscience which accuses arraignes judges condemnes them then represents all men as designed to execute the sentence as Cain sayd all who find me will kill me Gen. 4.14 Yet you offer at a reason here it is E. C. The Doctrines of the Church of Rome are bloudy ones such as are directly contrary to the word of God the constant sense of the Church of all ages if blindly followed what can we euer expect but Rebellion Murther Bloud-shed all manner of confusion Answ It is easy to say Our Doctrines are contrary to those of the ancient Church but impossible to proue it because it is euidently false They are bloody ones say you I know no doctrines defended by the Church of Rome against Protestants but those contained in the Profession of Faith of Pius IIII. shew one bloody doctrine contained in it I will yeild the cause If you can shew none there this Assertion of yours is a greate slaunder You produce indeed some pieces out of priuate Authours with what sincerity we will hereafter ex●min Now suppose what you say be true and they really held those Doctrines why should their singular sentiments be the Doctrine of the Church when others as learned pious as they say the contrary the cheife Prelates of the Church condemn those opinions Is there any law which makes each English Catholick answerable for euery Action or writing or word of euery Sicilian Spaniard Jf not we may be Innocent hate Murther abhor Treason althô some of those sayd the contrary if they did say so Of which hereafter E. C. As vncontroulable Dominion Rule is the ground bottom of all their Designs if euer they come to attaine it KING Lords Commons should be the meanest of their Subjects the whole Kingdome be as one general Flame Answ were this spoken in a Nation where Catholick Religion were vtterly vnknown you might hope to frighten People from it but to say it in England where during its preuailing there appeared no symptom of such dismall effects to English who know it still preuailes in their neighbouring countries without those mischeifs is impudent What Kings more absolute in their Dominions then the Most Christian Catholick Monarks what subjection are they and their Nobles Commons brought vnder And as for our own Kings when were they more honoured and obeyed and their subiects at home by loued by their Freinds Allyes feared by their ennemys abroad then when Papists Popery instructs all to giue to God what is Gods to Caesar what is his It traines vp her children in due obedience to spirituall temporal Magistrates Whereas your Reformation first quite cast off the yoake of the Ecclesiastical Superiour by degrees so weakned that of the Ciuil Authority by perpetual en croachments vpon its Prerogatiue that it broke it too And then you sent your King to the graue with the formalities of Iustice and pulled the Lords out of their seates into the lowest ranks of the People annulling all the Priuiledges of Peeres equalling them with the meanest of the Commons This done how mercifully you dealt with Lords Gentlemen Commons appeares by the hystory of those times many still aliue can witnesse Shew such an example of exorbitant Tyranny in any Catholick nation E. C. We must not say it is only the Duty of Kings Princes Governours but of euery particular man in his way measure to lend his helping hand to the furthering of so good a work to do what he can for the mantaining of that Religion worship of God in its Primitiue Purity which Christ his Apostles taught Answer your words here seeme as smooth as oyle yet they are Darts Darts shot at the very hart of Government for they encouraged and authorize each priuate man to meddle with the Church Discipline order euen the Altar according as he phansies the ancient worship of God in its Primitiue Purity to which People are prone enough of themselues Euery one is willing to deferr to the Physitian to the Lawyer euen to the smith or Cobler in their owne Art yet in matter of Church or state euery one thinks himself wiser then those who sit at the Helme sufficiently qualifyed to correct them being once imbued with this opinion that it

Laws change Gouernments cut off Princes rightfull Monarks absolue subjects from their Natural allegiance c pag 7. he addes we are full out such constitutioned Persons as he hath described vs not a jot better nay if we proue not worse before he hath done with vs we shall be obliged to him for his Ciuility Moderation A formidable charge but if we do not tell him it is as great a lye himselfe as false an Informer as Oates he ought to thank vs for our Moderation for he brings not one word to proue his accusation out of any English Catholick nor of any other countries aliue nor any of the dead who speake home let vs see your proofes E. C. pag. 4. Peruse the canon c. Excommunicatorum 23. q. 5. we do not account them Murtherers who burning with the zeal of our Mother the Catholick Church shall happen to kill any of them And are not men of such wicked bloudy designs like the fatal Sirius or Dogstar Answ reade the Canon out you will find no subiect for this Tragical Exclamation for that very Canon declares that action killing an excommunicated Person to be a sin commands the Bishop of Lucia to impose vpon the homicide a seuere publick Pennance Ne eiusdem Ecclesiae Matres disciplina deseratur Poenitentiam eis indicito congruentem Least the Disciplin of our Mother the Church be abandoned oblige the sinners to a Pennance proportioned to their offence And is this to approue of those attempts I would willingly see your Bishops impose a Pennance on the Rebels who killed seuerall of their fellow subjects loyall to their King whither they call it Murther or no I shall not trouble them about the word E. C. pag. 5. Bellarmin l. 3. de Laicis c. 22. says If it were possible to root out the Hereticks not any in the world excepted whether KINGS or EMPEROURS c. without doubt they are to be cut off euery mothers child of them Is not here enough surely too much to euidence how lawfull they hold MVRTHER to be But if it cannot be done because they are too hard they must lye still Answer It is hard to heape together more malicious falsications in so few words Bellarmin in that place enquires whither those words of our Sauiour Mat. 13.30 Let the good seed the tares grow vntill the Haruest do not forbid the Execution of malefactors in general for he says that by the good seede are vnderstood all good men by tares all wicked men according to those words the good seede are the children of the Kingdome tares are the children of the wicked one versu 38. And he says that malefactors of what kind soeuer are to be punisht when it may be done without danger to the publick but when they are so numerous as to cope with the bulke of loyal subjects they ought to be spared to auoyde greater euil Which is so conformable to common sence that none but such a momus as E. C. could reprehend it it is practised in all states 1. If they can all crush a Rebellion in the egge by the Death of one or a few Traitors 2. Is it spread ouer a greate part of the Nation some few heads are punisht the rest are pardoned 3. some times propter bonum pacts the heads themselues are pardonned too Charles 1. designed the first when he sought the fiue members offred the third when he was a Prisoner And Charles 11. at his happy Restauration practised the second for he punisht his Father's judges pardonned the rest Now I come to score vp some of your Falsifications 1. That Bellarmin speakes only of Hereticks He speakes of all kinds of Malefacters Quaestio est vel de Haereticis vel de furibus vel de alijs malis an extirpandi sint The doubt is ether of Hereticks or Thieues or other Malefactors whither they be to be cut off 2. That he doth not except Kings or Emperours to make your Impertinence more obseruable you put these names in Capital letters Sir I neuer thought it necessary to except Kings when we speake of punishing Rogues theiues because no man in his wits will think them meant by those words I beleiue on the same score all our English laws may be arraigned for I do not think when they order a theif to be hanged a Knyght of the Post to loos his eares c. that they adde except he be a King or Emperour 3 That Bellarmin teaches by those words MURTHER to be lawfull Is the Execution of Felons by due course of law Murther of that Bellarmin speakes Gentle Reader I earnestly desire thee to haue some Christian compassion of the condition of Catholicks thy country-men neyghbours who vpon such malicious mis-representations of most innocent sayings are exposed to publick Hatred cruel Persecutions by a senselesse vnchristian disingenious sort of men whose minds are blacker then their coates who make as little bones of a lye swearing to it as drinking a glasse of smal bee when they are thirsty E. C. pag. 5. Their Religion tempts them to all Actions that are horrible against Protestants by giuing them their Lands Estates which assoone as they haue exterminated Hereticks they shall possesse without controul Concil Later sub Innoc. III. c. 3. Now Council's decrees are by Papists honoured as Oracles of the Holy Ghost Says Stapleton Answer No body is ignorant how variously that Canon is spoken of Platina says that Council made no decrees Others say Absolute Princes are not comprehended because not named as they ought to be by reason of their particular dignity in odiosis C. sedes Apostolica de Rescriptis jndeed the words seruato iure Domini principalis preseruing entire the right of the supreame Lord shews that the Canon speakes only of Vassals or subordinate Princes not of the Absolute as Kings Jt is also sayd that the Kings consented to the Law by their Ambassadors they may enact what pleased Lastly it is only a positiue law which may be repealed doth not oblige vntill it be receiued in the seuerall Catholick states As appeares by those of the Council of Trent which are vniuersally receiued no where As to Stapleton his words are nothing to the purpose seing he speakes only of conciliar Definitions in matter of Faith E. C. pag. 6. Whatsoeuer the Holy Father the Pope doth if it be Theft or any other thing which of it self is euil as for example MURTHER c. we must like wise impute that to the jnspiration of GODS spirit And you cite C. non nos D. 40. in Glossa Answer no greate wonder you Protestant Ministers should falsify glosses of Canons who build your Faith on falsifications of the scriptures Neither canon nor Glosse say what you produce them for both lay the quite contrary The title of the Canon is The Papal office doth not giue but takes a way the liberty to sin In