is the best so it is the safest Religion that is I beseech you Sir do not mistake me I do not I assure you speak this as being of their perswasion but to be better enabled by you to oppose our Adversaries when they shall object to us this fallacious argument Ortho. Sir you shall not want what I can contribute to your satisfaction and truly I think this may be easily answered and I shall begin with a reply I have heard of a very learned man upon this Subject in a Disputation between him and a Papist who being at his last shift and forced to make use of your abovesaid Argument answered thus Sir says he do not condemn us for an excess of Charity towards you and consider how want of Charity in you towards us may be laid to your charge another day And withall take notice of this that in the same manner those infamous Schismaticks the Donatists argued against St. Austin and the Catholick Church taking hold of their Confession that Salvation might be had in their Churches which was not said these Schismaticks to be had in a Catholick Church thus did these wicked Schismaticks conclude with the Papists their Religion to be the surest and safest and so consequently the best also Doth not the King of Assyria by his Servants rant and argue against good King Hezekiah much at this rate in the 2 of the Kings and the 18 Chap. Have any of the gods of the Nations at all delivered his Land out of the Hand of the King of Assyria Where are the gods of Hamath and of Arphad Where are the gods of Sepharvaim Henah and Ivah Have they delivered Samaria out of my Hand Who are they Amongst all the gods of the Countries that have delivered their Country out of my Hand that the Lord should deliver Jerusalem out of my Hand Caco One word more Sir and I promise you I have done Does not the Author of whom you quote the Story of the Speaking Idol c. express an aversion against and relate some things to the prejudice of Arch-Bishop Laud towards the Conclusion of his Book Ortho. I confess he does and he is blame-worthy for it but withal to be pityed if you consider his case aright and thus it is in his Infancy with his Milk he sucks in the Roman Religion has his Education in Popish Countries becomes a Priest goes over an Emissary into the Indies for the advancing and propagating the Romish Religion However being a Man of Parts and Learning through all the Mists and Clouds of Error he discerneth the unreasonableness first and then the dangerous Tenets of the Church of Rome but all this while it is scarce much more than Break of day with him he is but a Negative Christian but a Neophyte the Roman Religion he perceives is bad but as yet knows little of the Protestant Religion Thus endowed he comes over into England very little before our Civil Wars began still troubled in mind he goes over into Italy to Rome where he thought if any place could afford him satisfaction in the Romish Perswasion there it must be in that place he converses with Eminent Divines who tell him strange Stories of the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury his great inclination to return to the Roman Church This Neophyte this doubting wavering Christian is told these falshoods by these Roman Divines to encourage him to go over an Emissary into England and there labour vigorously in the Roman Vineyard the poor Man believes that which these men knew to be false but this must be rumor'd to gain English Proselytes you know how much the Church of Rome allows of officious and beneficial Lyes confirm those they have and add Reputation to their Cause amongst the English Papists and observe Sir do not the Papists the same thing now Do they not observe the same Method still to the great dis-heartening His Majesties Protestant Subjects so that the King and Parliament have been forced to take notice of their Insolencies Well Sir with this prejudice to the Protestant Church of England and the Arch-Bishop This Neophyte this doubting Christian comes over into England where every innocent Ceremony and the Liturgy of the Church of England confirm in him the Belief of the Italian Falshoods concerning the Arch-Bishop c. and by reason of that his perswasion he proves as great an Enemy to the Church of England as of Rome and thus out of the Frying Pan or out of one Fire he leaps into another and so turns a new kind of Fanatick and it often falls out that out of one extream Men are apt to run into another and therefore it often falls out that when a Protestant turns Papist he for the most part does throw himself into the Arms and Bosom of a Jesuite and then sucks in all their wicked and abominable practices as principles against the Sovereignty of Kings Humane Society and Moral Virtues and the Dictates of Nature a stout Champion of the Pope and Court of Rome rather than the Church of Rome against all Temporal and Civil Interests whatsoever you may be sure such a Convert he proves and truly this is so natural to Man in avoiding one Rock of danger and offence to fall foul upon another that if Men be not very wary and discreet they can hardly avoid it thus when a Papist turns Protestant he is apt to turn from being that to throw himself headlong into all sorts of Enthusiastick phrensies in opposition to Popery this was the case of this Author for he was so fearful of the Rock of Popery that he fell foul upon the Rock of Enthusiasm and there made Ship-wrack of his Faith and therefore waving that passage concerning the Arch-Bishop and Monarchy let us believe the rest concerning the Idol c. for he delivers them upon his own knowledge being an Eye-witness and not reports from others and now thus I have Sir I hope answered your Scruple concerning this Author Caco I do confess you have very fully and now I will give you no further trouble at this time yet if it be not too troublesome to you be pleased to let a small piece of some two sheets of Paper conclude our Discourse Ortho. Name it Sir and you shall be obeyed Caco It is that which you shewed me lately the Title of it is this An Answer to a Pamphlet Entituled The humble Apology of the English Catholicks written by a Royalist before Christmas Ortho. I 'am ready to obey you and thus I begin and first with the Title though I but repeat your foregoing words An Answer to a Pamphlet Entituled The humble Apology of the English Catholicks Written by a Royalist before Christmas 1666. Thuanus Miseros Principes quibus de conjuratione non creditur nisi occisis IF the Author of the Apology could make good the beginning of his Discourse I could very heartily turn Apologist for him and his Friends He says aright and the Devil spake true when he
another Opinion In the first place I will lay down for an infallible Truth That never any Protestant i. e. a Son of the Church of England did ever draw his Sword against the King or any other their Sovereign Prince since the Reformation begun by King Henry the Eighth Caco Oh Monstrum horrendum Sure you do not believe what you say Ortho. Yes and I 'le prove what I say thus That the late Rebels Cromwel your Friend President Bradshaw and the rest of those that were of their Party were not Protestants that is they were not Sons of the Church of England you may as well call those People Royalists as Protestants or Sons of the Church of England Did they not overthrow the Hierarchy of the Church as well as Monarchy How then can you call them Protestants When indeed they do not deserve without a great deal of Charity the name of Men so Monstrous were their Actions Thus much to vindicate Protestants whose Tenet is this that if their Sovereign were a Tyrant and a Turk which our Sovereign is far from I thank God yet in such a case we allow of no other Arms than what the Primitive Christians did use against their Persecutors that is Prayers and Tears Caco Thus far I confess you have well proved that Protestants in a strict sense so called i. e. true Sons of the Church of England may be very good Subjects and that if they deviate from their Lovalty to their Sovereign it is not from any ill Principle in their Relâ—gion which they suck in with their Milk and that such deviations do rather proceed from the ill Principles of Sin and frailties of humane Nature All this I acknowledge for a great truth but what have you to say against Papists that they should not be as good Subjects as any the best Protestants in the World Ortho. In a word the Rebellion of Ireland accompanied with an universal Massacre without all distinction of Ages and Sexes which as it preceeded the Rebellion of England so did it also exceed it in Inhumanity and Bloodshed and for ought I know might occasion the English Rebellion Caco I did expect no less from you who are so great an assertor of the Protestants so much an adversary to the Papists and so Loyal to the Prince but all this while I hear nothing of any Principle in the Popish Religion that should lead them into such horrid actions which I do by no means justifie Ortho. Have patience and I shall give enough of that you know what our Saviour said No man can serve two Masters which possibly might be a Prophecy of the Popes Sovereignty over the Kings and Protentates of the World How can the Papists serve God Honor the King which two are but one in reality and Serve Worship and Obey the Pope for he is as our Saviour says the other Master Caco Well enough for the Pope as the Papists tell me pretends to no other Soverelgnty but in Spiritualibus Ortho. In Temporalibus also I assure you and yet it is a wonder how an Opinion so Diametrically opposite to the truth of God delivered in the Scriptures and the Doctrine of the Antients both Councils and Fathers should ever get up among such as profess Christianity And surely were not the Interests of the Court of Rome in greater esteem than the truths of the Gospel and the Peace of the Catholick Church it were not possible that your Popes should be so presumptuous as to assume this Power or the Doctors of Rome so impudent as to assert it For to enlarge a little on this particular of such concernment to the peace of the Church and all Christendom Is it not St. Peter's Exhortation 1. Pet. 2.13 Submit your selves to every Ordinance of Man for the Lords sake to the King as Supreme and St. Paul is of the same mind Rom. 13.1 Let every Soul be subject to the higher Powers and v. 5. Wherefore ye must needs be subject not only for wrath but also for Conscience sake and St. Chrysostom's gloss upon the Text answers all your pretences against this truth Etiamsi Apostolus sis c. Although you be an Apostle or an Evangelist or a Prophet yet you must be subject And such was St. Paul's own practice He submits himself to the judgment of Felix Acts 24 and to Festus and from him Acts 25. makes his appeal to Caesar Appellatio autem non nisi ad legitimum sit judicem And this incontroulable Power did the Primitive Christians acknowledge in their Emperors and submit to it though Heathens Hereticks and Persecutors Athanasius being unjustly banished from Alexandria where he was Bishop by Constantius and afterwards falsly accused of Disobedience to his Decree makes this mild defence to him though an Arian and a Persecutor Epist ad Constantium Nequaquam restiti mandatis tuae Pietatis c. I no way resisted the Commands of your Piety neither shall I ever endeavor to enter into Alexandria till your Piety give me leave And thus St. Augustin in Psal 128. Apostata erat Julianus iniquus Idololatra milites tamen Christiani servierunt Imperatori c. Julian was an Apostate a wicked Man an Idolater yet the Christians obeyed him When it concern'd the cause of Christ then indeed they acknowledged him only that was in Heaven but when the Emperour commanded other things they obeyed him I may also ask by what Law the Pope can challenge this Power to himself to dispose of the Temporal Affairs or Estates of Princes Not by any human Law for the Prince is above the coactive or coercive Power of humane Laws solo Deo minor If by Divine Law let him shew any Text of Scripture or Tradition of the Apostle surely they are both against it The weapons of our Warfare saith the Apostle 2 Cor. 10. are not carnal but Spiritual and our Saviour determines against it Mat. 20.25.26 The Princes of the Gentiles exerise Dominion and Authority over them but it shall not be so among you Hence St. Hicrom Epist 3. ad Heliodor speaking of the King and the Bishop saith Ille nolentibus praeest hic volentibus The King hath Power over the refractory and disobedient the Bishop over such as are willing to obey him His Power compulsory the Bishops but precarious And thus the second General Nicene Council Act 3. discoursing of the Regal and Sacerdotal Power speaks to the same purpose Sacordos Coelestiâ— curat Rex autem legibus aequis justis omma quae in terris siunt procurat The Priest takes care for what may bring us to Heaven The King by just and equitable Laws orders all Affairs on Earth And this is answerable to the terms and boundaries of both powers which we see appointed by Jehosaphat 2 Chron. 19.11 Ananias the chief Friest is over you in all matters of the Lord and Zebadiah the Ruler or Prince for all the Kings matters If therefore the King be over all and orders all
I had burned that god whom not only they but many others in the Town and also in the Town of St. John Sacatepeques did Worship I used reasons to perswade them no honor was due to it as unto a God But one of them boldly replyed That they knew it was a piece of Wood and of it self could not speak but seeing it had spoken as they were all witnesses this was a Miracle whereby they ought to be guided and they did verily believe that God was in that piece of Wood which since the Speech made by it was more than ordinary Wood having God himself in it and therefore deserved more Offerings and Adoration than those Saints in the Church who did never speak unto the People I told them that the Devil rather had formed that speech if any they had heard for to deceive their Souls and lead them to Hell which they might easily perceive from the Doctrine which I was informed he had Preached against Christ the only begotten Son of God whom the Father loveth and in whom he is well pleased and against whom he certainly would not speak in that Idol Another answered boldly Our Fore-Fathers never knew what Christ was until the Spaniard came into the Country but they knew there were gods and did Worship them and did Sacrifice unto them and for ought they knew this god of theirs belonged in old times to their Fore-Fathers and theirs was the Old Religion and Christians were Hereticks and Innovators And thus Sir you see those same Arguments made use of by these Heathens which the Champions of the Church of Rome take up against the Protestant Religion For do they not call it an Innovation Do they not with these Heathens plead Antiquity Do they not call us Innovators as these Heathens do the Spaniards and with them again plead the Religion of their Fore-Fathers and the Papists bestow the same Epithetes upon King Henry the Eighth King Edward the Sixth Luther Calvin and other Reformers from the errors of the Church of Rome You see Sir again how these Idolaters in pleading for their Idol plead just as Papists do for Worshipping of Saints which makes it impossible for a Papist to confute an Idolater As Popery does also by this means prevent the Conversion of the Jews who however in former Ages much given to Idolatry are now the greatest Sticklers against it of any People under Heaven Caco Sir I give you many thanks for these two Stories I find my self much edified by them the truth is when you and I first met I did not expect what I now find and must confess to you two great Truths the first that I was inclining you knâ—w where i. e. to Popery the second that your Discourses have made me as firm a Protestant as your self Ortho. I give God thanks with all my heart for this good progress it shall be my Prayer that you may be happy both here and hereafter Shall we now part Caco With your good leave Sir let us continue a while together for if I may not be too troublesome to you I would let you know what I heard urged by a Learned Papist out of the Psalms to maintain the Doctrine of Merit and Intercession by Saints to God Will you givt leave Sir For else I should not dare to proceed Ortho. With all my heart Sir I pray you go on Caco The 1 verse of the 132 Psalm was quoted the words are these Lord remember David and all his troubles as also the 10 verse of the same Psalm For thy Servant David's sake turn not away the presence of thine Annointed He said this Psalm was composed after the Death of King David and therefore concludes that here the Prophet is made an Intercessor to God I beg therefore your thoughts as to this particular Ortho You shall be obeyed and I do conceive it no difficult matter to answer it and thus I begin In the first place I know nothing to the contrary but that this Psalm was composed by King David himself and though this might serve for an answer yet for the present we will suppose some body else was the Author of it after the Death of King David All along in the Old Testament we meet with many promises for future Times and Ages the first promise was to Adam immediately after his fatal Lapse where the Messiah was first of all promised and so from time to time as the Church of God was in any affliction it was supported by promises It would be too long to insert all those promises here whoever has an inclination to be well acquainted with those promises of God to his Church let him be pleased to read the Old Testament for the promise of the Messiah and other benefits of inferior consequence and the New Testament for what concerns Christianity King David whom in this Psalm Romes Stickler would make an Intercessor between God and Man had many promises as Adam and others made unto him beneficial to the Church of God therefore when the Church or Servants of God was in any streights God was thereupon minded of his promises not that God stood in need of these Memorandums but hereby the Church i. e. the Faithful Servants of God did support themselves and their Holy Faith with the remembrances of these promises of God to King David and others and so we Christians are supported in our greatest exigencies with this promise of Christ to his Church that the Gates of Hell shall not be able to prevail against it and therefore whoever thinks these two Verses the first and the tenth of this Psalm to confirm the Romish Doctrine of praying to Saints and making them Intercessors is very much mistaken for says our Saviour Come unto Me this Me has an Emphasis in this place all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will refresh you in another place says our Saviour I will pray unto the Father for you what need we then to desire the intercession and mediation of any other than Jesus Christ the Saviour Mediator and Intercessor of and for the whole World And as it is in the 130. Psalm the last Verse And He shall redeem Israel from all his Sins He it is only can do it and not Saints or Angels who are but our fellow Creatures and did evermore refuse Worship and Adoration wherever it was offered unto them many instances of this we have both in the Old and New Testaments Caco I do confess I have very much trespassed upon your patience one word more Sir and I have done there is one thing urged by the Papists which does a little weigh and that is this the Papist urges thus against the Protestants You say they to the Protestants do acknowledge that Papists may be Saved i. e. that there is Salvation in our Church we hold says the Papists that there is no Salvation out of the Pale of the Roman Church therefore to be a Roman Catholick as it
not the Massacre and Rebellion in Ireland countenanc'd and own'd by a Popes Nuncio Let us draw nearer to these times and speak of what pass'd within this Twelve Months Was not the Popes Bull an occasion of Cornet Nangle's Rebellion which had been as universal as the first but that the Romish Party there wanted strength the Author by mentioning the French King's kindness to the French Protestants puts me in mind to affirm he is much mistaken for that King hath of late begun very much to Persecute them he has taken from them most of their Churches will not suffer them to Educate their own Children and many other grievous punishments he does now inflict upon them and it may well be suspected he intends yet more against them having already purged his Guards of all of their Belief The Author grows yet more Impudent and Extravagant for first he goes about to Illegitimate Queen Elizabeth and then bespatters the Fame of Our King Henry the Eighth and by that one may see where he has his Breeding and where he learned to speak contumeliously of Kings You urge the Allegiance sworn to Queen Mary and 't is no such wonder considering the Artisices and Power of the Roman Catholicks at that time But all Roman Catholicks will grant that Queen Maries Mother was King Henry's Brothers Wife yes and it will be reply'd that the Pope dispensed with the Marriage He did so but St. John the Baptist whom Our Blessed Saviour Honours with so high a Testimony in the Gospel would not have done it He condemned the like Marriage in King Herod and had he liv'd in those times would have done no less in King Henry though perhaps the Pope like another Herod would have cut off his Head for that bold affront yet the Popes Power though never so much severe in those times could not then silence the suffrages of our Universities here nor those in forreign parts who joyntly affirm'd and confirm'd both the lawfulness and necessity of King Henry's Divorce from his Brothers Wife which doth sufficiently wipe off that filth the Author from his Impure mouth breaths out against that Queen of Glorious Memory But King Henry the Eighth it seems is a great Eye-sore to you and you will leave no place unsearch'd for some Stones of Reproach to throw at him yet if you would be pleased to cast a serious Eye upon divers of your Popes the chief Heads of your Church you may find a full choice in the Ninth and Tenth Centuries besides several others and when you have throughly perused the exact Symetry of their carriage and practices as described in some of your own Authors then turn your Eye upon King Henry the Eighth and you will readily I doubt not conclude the Saint to be on his side and making so bold with Princes it would be a wonder if Ministers of State did escape his Pen and it may well be affirmed that King James is wounded through Cecyl's side or rather that wise King himself is deeply pierc'd for may not one thus understand the Apologist Cecyl is compared to Vlysses and King James to Cromwel the whole Parliament is likewise aspersed by him and according to the opinion of the Apologist God is mocked every Fifth of November so that God himself cannot escape him neither He insists upon the merit of those of his Religion that ventured their Lives in the Quarrel of the late King of Glorious Memory where this great merit lies I cannot well understand for these reasons first they were his subjects and so they were in duty bound to fight for him secondly they were Persecuted by the Long Parliament and that good King upon pretence that he so much countenanced them was Persecuted likewise for their sakes and so they were constrained to stand by him and for him for their own preservation and there is one of His Subjects of that Religion that stipulated and they drive a bargain with the late King before he would engage him The Author would have us belive that Dinner-Bells were mistaken for Mass-Bells Do the Papists Dine at Six Seven or Eight of the Clock in the Morning All their Insolencies the Author would perswade us to attribute to the height of their zeal against Constables or other Persons in Authority formed against the King when it is very well known that during the Rebellion when the late Rebels Cromwel Bradshaw and the rest were in humane appearance confirmed in their Throne none were better used that went under the name of Cavaliers than Papists and now since the happy Restauration of our Gracious Sovereign many of these endeavor to strike in with the Phanaticks desiring them to joyn with them and they will take an order with the Episcopal Party these are the men that so much boast themselves of their Loyalty As to the Burning of London God reward them according to their demerit that were the Authors of that Dismal and Execrable Fire this is most certain that the Papists rejoyce much in those sad Flames and it is a common saying amongst them That the burning of that City is a happiness to the Kingdom and hath cured it of the Rickets It is now time to draw to a conclusion though perhaps some things in the Pamphlet being stuffed with many ridiculous passages and little pertinent to the purpose I have for brevities sake omitted to speak to For a Farewel I will only add this to the Author that if the Protestant assertors of his Majesties Right had been as few as those he has set down in red Letters of his Party he should have been imitated by me but our Numbers are so vast that many large Folio's would not contain them But instead of the Apologists Bloody List take here an extract of some things out of the History of Henry the Fourth of France written by Hardovin de Perefix Bishop of Rodez formerly Tutor to this French King Lewis concerning the League in France called by its Abettors The Sacred Vnion supported by Popes and more especially by Sextus Quintus and Gregory the Fourteenth and entred into by perswasion of the Roman Divines by the Rebellious Roman Catholick Subjects of the two Henries the third and the fourth to oppose which they were most chiefly assisted by their Protestant Subjects who were always most ready to help them in time of extremity and still proved their best and most Loyal Subjects On all hands little notice is taken of Henry the Fourth his Right to the Crown of France Fol. 61. The Author writes thus concerning the succession of Hâ—n 4. to the Crown of France 1584. year of our Lord. because he was removed above the seventh degree of Blood from Henry the Third of France beyond which there is no kindred as to private Succession besides he was not of that Religion which was ever professed by the French Kings ever since King Clovis and consequently was incapable of wearing the Crown and bearing the Title of Most Christian