Bishop that false deceitful vile Corrupter and Abuser of History c. What were the Titles of the Books Who were the Authors He could not afterwards tell me This Friend of his told me very soberly and calmly That if the Charge against the Quakers of leaving their Meetings in a time of Persecution were true for which they condemned us I had a just Charge against them and they ought to give me satisfaction No Book meddles with these Questions The next morning I sent him another Letter and told him what Excuses I had heard why he would not meet with me which he knew not to be true that I did believe he knew no Reply could be given and therefore declined it and that he had as good tell me so in plain words as thus practically and by interpretation I had promised him if he could give me a satisfactory rational Answer to my Queries I would turn Quaker but not till then And that I had some more Questions to propose to him about which I desired his sober Consideration and that I challenged him to a publick Disputation about them Question 5. Whether it were not great Folly or worse to say That bowing to a man was Idolatry a Breach of the second Commandment a Sin which rather than Mordecai would commit he would run a Risk for his own Life and the Lives of all the Jews and yet after all this Harangue turn this Custom of bowing to men into a common Practice When we were reasoning with them once Did not Abraham bow to the Children of Heth c They would reply If Abraham were satisfied in it we are not following Scripture-Examples hath undone the world and yet of late years they observe that civil decent Ceremony By the way Reader give me leave to tell a pleasant though plain Story I knew two Grave Learned Divines who parting bowed one to another A zealous Quaker in a great Fury runs to them and said to one of them a facetious man Dost thou not know it is written Thou shalt not bow down The Minister looking on this ignorant impudent Fool with Contempt said to him Dost thou not bow down when thou dost Sh The Quaker replies Thou art a Beast to talk so And said the Minister Thou art a veryer Beast if thou dost not do so Nay Priest said he why talkest thou like a Beast Why said be quotest thou Scripture like a Devil alluding to that Scripture where the Devil setting on Christ cites Scripture of Angels preserving men that they hurt not their feet against the stones but left out in all thy ways Mat. 4.6 So the Quaker names Thou shalt not bow down but left out to graven Images Question 5. Whether it were not unheard-of Dissimulation to tell Oliver Cromwell Thus saith the Lord I have put the Sword into thy hand to to destroy Idolaters the Stuarts and Maâ—nants And yet after all to tell Kâ— Charles II. That all this was Rebellion 〈◊〉 that they gave their Testimony against the mâ— ther of his Father What George Fox and Burroughs did well known He that would fully undâ—stand this wickedness let him read a liâ—â— Tract done by a curious hand call'd 〈◊〉 Snake in the Grass The best Thing tâ— ever was written on this Subject 〈◊〉 Pennyman's Papers once a Quaker wâ— hath out of their Authors shewn hâ— they always shuffled Principles about â—vernment Scriptures Ministers c. Question 7. Whether it were not great wickedâ— to pretend to Inspiration Infallibility Pâ— phecies Miracles and yet expound so 〈◊〉 congruous and contrary to Scripture As Pen and I heard George Whitehead to in Bristol on Prov. 9.1 4. Wisdom hâ— built her a house She cryeth Whose simple let him turn in hither and for 〈◊〉 that is void of understanding A simâ—â— thing said he is a thing unmixt pure So he that is Holy hâ—th no Sin Now â—hough the latter part of the Verse explains the former yet this mighty man of theirs that hath printed so many large Books could not see it Besides though the word Simple be an equivocal word in English yet not so in Hebrew for here it fignifieth foolish That a Quaker about a year since in Cullington prophesied from the Lord All Women that are with Child this Year shall die in Childbirth which was far from being true though some in that Case were in great fear If this cost any of them their Lives I cannot contradict it if any should say that this false Prophet deserved to die as much as any Thief or High way-man whatever Reader know these men condemned all Human Literature and asserted Inspiration But can the Spirit in a Quaker contradict the Spirit in the Scripture They say That as if a man speak through a Cane it is not the voice of the Cane though it pass through it but the voice of the Man So it is not the voice of the Quaker but the voice of the Spirit I needed no more to prove them Deceivers but hearing them Yea some have pâ—â— tended to Miracles One came into a House where a Chillay dead and said to the People Weep no the Child is not dead but sleepeth And iâ— imitation of the Prophet 2 Kings 4.3 Stretcht her self on the Child saying In 〈◊〉 Name of Jesus of Nazareth arise I suppose Reader I need not tell thee that thâ— Soul of the Child returned not to it againâ— A Story well known and by whonâ— among Bristol Friends A Quaker told me that it was said George Fox could by Inspiration speak aâ— Languages where the Lord sent him anâ— restored a Man to Life who broke hiâ— Neck Impudent Falshoods I knew a Woman about 22 years since who must fast 40 days and 40 nights bâ—â— soon died and would have eat but couâ— not L S of Bristol before named asserted he was as much Inspired as waâ— the Prophet yea as Balaam's Ass Thiâ— Inspired Ass after a continued idle Life fell ill of the Diabetes by drinking alwayâ— Red-streak Cyder When on his Death Bed he said to his Physician Dr. Griffin who told me the Story I shall not die â— shall be in such a place by such a day If should now die the Lord would reveal it to me But the Fool soon turn'd up his Trotters and died The Spirit say they is Infallible What then doth it make us so God is Omnipotent Omnisicient doth he make us so This L S the Inspired Ass once found out a notable place of Scripture for taking away Baptism and the Lord's Supper Isa 3.1 For behold the Lord takes away the stay of bread There is the Supper said he and of Water there is Baptism as honest Mr. Blinman a Minister had it from him and told me the Story Now who would talk with such profane Wretches thus playing with Scripture AFter this I receiv'd a Letter from William Penn who told me That he had consulted some Bristol Friends and they told him I was a Hot-headed man and a Persecutor
time of Persecution Christ hath said it plainly If they persecute you in one City flee to another Matth. 10.23 Be wise as Serpents said the same mouth and almost in the same breath that said be innocent as Doves Had any of us been let down in a Basket over a Wall as Paul was for fear of the Jews Acts 9.24 25. they would have made sport of us though none were so weak in those days to do so of him We told them That in a time of danger it was lawful to withdraw from the Example of the Prophets Christ the Apostles The Holy Jesus in this respect was not Holy enough for his Holy Brethren in pretence observe Christ did as we do his Brethren who are said not to believe in him objected and censur'd him almost in the same words as the Quakers their Followers do us the Followers of Christ John 7.1 4. Jesus walked no more openly in Jewry but walked in Galilee because the Jews sought to kill him There is no man that doeth any thing in secret and he himself seeketh to be known openly If thou do these things shew thy self to the world said his unbelieving Brethren to him All our Martyrs did as we did These said Barclay Apol. and Thousands of them that by this were they known to be the People of God That they were not found in Corners kept the Places of their Publick Worship which if pull'd down they stood on the Rubbish of them and would have done so even to the death But say I since they are known not to be the People of God for they left those Places in the heat of Persecution I being once a Bristol man will tell you what was done there where were the chief Quakers I will inform you what I know of this Lawrence Steel of Bristol once a Candidate for the Ministry who left us and turned a Perfectionist because of this Principle of theirs yet left their Meeting-place a long time At last when driven here by some hot quakers he was taken only with six or seven persons as I remember He was sent to Gaol a half-year for refusing the Corporation Oath after the expiration of which he never went-more and so continued to the time of his death R. V. another great man especially in his own eyes did the like and all the rest only Elizabeth Sterring and Dorcas Dole two zealous Women wrote a Book against them all damning them in the Name of the Lord for leaving their Testimony contrary to their Manifestation from the Lord. They tell them of Daniel's opening his Windows contemned their Plea that God can hear in secret and they drop this charitable and I doubt not true passage by the way Had many of the Professors for so they call other Dissenters been of your Persuasion they would not have done as you now do Honestly said Heaven forbid Is it not worth while to ask William Pen how he bore his Testimony Did not he flee Not Whitehead after all his mockings of others They would set some to watch at doors to see whether Informers did espy any of them coming into a House warily as others did for a private Meeting This was the great thing these men ever gloried in it was a good Providence before this Liberty was given that these men were tried and cast else how had they now triumphed and exalted themselves above all others The reason of all was this If there were taking away of Goods in one place it was not so in another till now therefore the Sufferers were helped by the Non-sufferers out of their Fund a commendable Practice but now the Storm comes on all and no help Every Quaker now must stand or rather run away on his own Legs Question 4. Whether it were not horrid Impiety to leave Ministers because of their Learning and yet follow Pen and others because of theirs Latin was once the Language of the Beast not fit for the mouth of a Christian This with Greek and Hebrew were the Three Languages nailed at Christ's Cross but they have since cryed to them as the Jews to Jesus Come down from the Cross That Philosophy was Aristotle's Vomit Serpents Meat in us and yet Angelical Food in him In short How can Learning make us like Devils and William Pen like an Angel So that the Light within was almost turn'd to the Light without Pen's Dictates Only some were more eagleâ—ey'd and could look through men Meade told a Friend of mine That all Pen's Party were Factors for Popery But that he himself was so Loyal he would spend his All his Blood in the Service of this King Honestly said Meade I believe thou speakest thy heart Reader I must stop thee here for a while and tell thee Since the sending of this Question I have been informed by some who knew Pen as much as one man can know another That Pen is indeed a grand Politician a great Statesman one that hath great command of words but an Inventer of some which the Quakers use as to Un-religion a man and the Bowed-downness of Souls but that he could not talk plain Latin with any man They believed he could not turn a plain piece of English into Latin That he was no Grecian That he understood little Logick or Philosophy and told me some of his Blunders in Natural Philosophy too Comical now to relate I was surprized And now William Pen seeing I am better informed concerning thee that thou hast more escaped the Pollutions of this Learned Age than I and Thousands of others imagin'd I beg thy pardon for abusing thee and clapping this Indignity on thee and if Reformation may be thy security and Repentance that younger Brother to Innocency set matters right thou needst not fear such foul Aspersions for the future However something of Learning thou hast Barclay more but Samuel Fisher most of all that makes my Question to deserve an Answer I know the Learned Quaker that gave Barclay the Collections in his Apology out of the Fathers as he told me Sam. Fisher and others could come with their old heathenish way of Disputing testified against by the Spirit of the Ever-living God by Syllogisms Major Minor Conclusion and Poetry too condemned in others I wrote W. Penn I would not trouble him with one Question more Whether it were not Hypocrisy to condemn all Wars even Defensive as unlawful and Murther when they were called to serve in this way Protestant Princes and yet all was well for a Popish Tyrant Because I knew he did not dare on many Accounts to give me a Reply After I had sent him these Queries I went to his Lodgings but he was not there One of his Friends there knew of my Letter and told me that William Pen said He loved not Controversies that is I suppose Questions he cannot answer for Controversies are his work and trade and that Books might inform me But I know none and I presume he neither What Books vindicated George
our selves more than him Thus he that pretends to exalt the Love of God hath debased it above all men I hope some learned Bishop or Clergy-man will soon take this conceited Man and cut him up and send him to the Tribes in Israel with a see consider and speak your minds who hath asserted that the Quakers Cause calls for their most Learned Pens and they may triumph in the Victory if they get it The Quakers ignorance discovers it self on all occasions G. Fox would call Preachers Conjurers But to do him right he was none as all know that read his Books or heard him talk George Whitehead that hath writ so much is a Notorious Dunce as proved before Mr. Speed Mr. Vickris of Bristol never speak among them who are Men of Parts and Sense I will imitate the Quakers way of speaking and judge what if you heard such stuff as this though sometimes better in their greater Meetings where contrary to their first Principles many of them forbid Womens speaking or the speaking of Nonsensical Fools that talk at this or the like rate Frunds I am moved by the to speak unto you though I know not what I shall say Noah was a Perfect Man yet some say Men cannot be Perfect or without Sin yet Noah was so and his Son Cham was Cursed for uncovering his Father's nakedness when drunk Judas was the Traytor and bore the Bag and cared not for the Poor It is said he that taketh Kirjah Sepher Now that is the Spirit of the Book Now look Fruâ—ds the Heart is the Book and the Spirit is the Light within It is said indeed I forbid a Woman to speak in the Church but the Priests are in the dark mind and understand it not by the Woman is meant the Flesh and by the Husband is meant the Devil but they in the Witchcraft cannot see it but I say look to the Light within you Frunds If you have motions to a Woman and do not do the act or desire to take another Man's goods and do not do it you Sin not Mary Fisher had leave from the Lord to go froâ— New-England to save her life when otherâ— had not Now they used carnal Weaponâ— Paul said These hands have ministred to â— necessities And whatsoever doth makâ— manifest is Light Now we abhor thâ— Papist Transubsistation and Infannibility and many things be taken figuratelâ— When I shoed a Horse the other day thâ— Horse went the better so you if you loâ—â— to the Light within you ah the pure Lighâ— The Priests use Heathenish words such aâ— be not in Scripture as Sacrament c. Thâ— word of the is come upon mâ— I am to read a Letter from Friend F. oâ— P. though we read not Scripture thâ— was of old yet we may what comes froâ— the pure streams One came to me 〈◊〉 know where John Steeplehouseman dwelâ— whom he prophanely call'd Mr. Churâ—â— man but I bid him defiance for Woâ—shipping the Beast They say if you 〈◊〉 Persecuted from one City flee to anothâ—â— But these Hell-hounds understand noâ— they be Baals Priests Hirelings a Geneâ—tion of Vipers for it is revealed unto 〈◊〉 Flee to another is to the City Heaveâ— O Frunds flee there flee there Frund There is none that doeth good they say 〈◊〉 not one but David said after O that the salvation of Israel were come out of Sion The Priests say this world shall in time end but they be in the dark and make Solomon a Lyar who sayeth yea he sayeth One generation passeth away and another cometh but the earth abideth for ever now mark Frunds what abides for ever shall never end but they be Sorcerers Wolves in Sheeps cloathing They say That when the outward fleshly Christ was Crucified the vale of the Temple was rent in twain and the Rocks rent and the Graves were opened But they be blind Guides that lead the blind and so both fall into the Ditch I am moved to tell you Frunds and now the two thumbs must be put against the Breasts that this is meant Mens Hearts were torn Hearts as hard as Rocks what think you Doth the Scripture tell you of outward Temples and outward Books Do not Fâ—unds strike any one after the manner of Men for Paul saith Lay hands suddenly on no man The world is angry if we Honour them not by putting off our upper Covering and say Thee to them but abide you in the Light c. They talk much of Paul's Epistles But what do they tell us of the Epistles of Apostatizing Jews And they talk of Abraham's Faith we must be better than they in their day They telâ— us what David and what the Apostles did 〈◊〉 but being led by Example hath undonâ— the world Now my Frunds the People of God of old were Quakers Moseâ— was a Quaker for he said I exceedingly quake and fear and Habakkuk was a Quaker for his lips quivered yea they were all Quakers for they taught Righteousness which is the very Principle of the Quakers yea I say so do the Quakers sayâ— Now the world saith That the Body of Christ is gone to Heaven but it turned to the dust They say the Scriptures be Gold's Word but they lie they be dirt Serpent's meat some Frunds threw their Bibles into the fire and they perished and therefore are not God's word Frunds It is often said and truly the Scriptureâ— and the Body of Christ be the Two great Harlots that have deceived the world many things in Scripture are evil in onâ— place Circumcision is commanded in another place forbidden c. That such and worse Speeches have been made in thousands of their Assemblies 〈◊〉 doubt not and I am ready to give an account of the things as their assertions that I have read in their Books or heard in hearing them or talking with them Because many are decoyed by the Quakers mode of Speaking as most agreeable to Scripture as Thou to a Single Person not you which word we use Thou not You to God I will consider it We are no more bound to Scripture modes of communication than to Scripture dresses and because many many weak ones are deceived by these specious pretences I will plead this case Bildad said to Job only 18. Job 1 2 3. How long will it be ere You make an end of words How long shall we appear vile in your sight for be teareth Why may I not say You to one as well as Thou to many When God delivered the Law on Mount Sinai Thou shalt not kill Spoke he not to Thousands We borrow this from the French Vouz for they have no other word to a single Person we took You from it We despise not the word Thee to a King as they often say in all cases he that Marrieth him to his Queen saith Wilt thou have this Woman He that gives him the Lords Supper saith The Body of Christ given for Thee preserve thy Body and Soul What if men agree such a word
what was inflicted by the Civil Magistrate on one another was just That Penn defended and engaged so to do Pensilvania by Soldiers and Arms against the Indians Commissions were given to Fight for the recovering of a Sloop taken from some Privateers that they Imprisoned some Quakers for Printing some Books without a License though but in their own defence That Burroughs said God could Arm Thousands of his Saints yea and Ten Thousands to Fight his Cause but for the present must not be so till Christ command them and this Christ is the Light within He asks this one plain Question of Friends Is not force of Arms necessary in England and all other Nations though condemned and that by the Spirit of God as Antichristian and Diabolical This Gentleman entertains you with a very pleasant Comedy how they play their Infallibilities Inspirations Prophecies one against another how they damn all the Christian world and yet assert the Salvation of Heathen How Fox and especially the Old Cheat George Bishop told Oliver How much they loved him and stood by him and what should be done to prevent the coming in of Charles Stuart And yet when he came in told him They acted not against him but mourned for him And talk much how they suffered as he did and what was their Loyalty till Billin a great Quaker Protested That if it cost him his life he would declare against any such pretences for said he we were not for the King but against him Howgil stole whole Paragraphs out of Mr. Selden of Tythes verbatim Yet this in others hath been highly condemned where not practised but injuriously charged He gives you an account of their horrid Blasphemies about Scripture as Serpents Meat dust about Christ and the Light within about Perfection Ordinances c. AND now I advise all Persons of Parts and Wisdom that look into the Controversie between us and the Quakers especially Gentlemen and Ministers to buy and peruse the aforenamed Book the best in my opinion that ever I saw I have given you some of the dainties there to invite you to a more plentiful eating What shame is it for Men to pretend as Preachers to convince Gainsayers and yet know not the most convincing Arguments to confute their Folly whom they know to be the worst of Hereticks and oppose them as such Or what a shame is it for Gentlemen who should be advocates for truth not to know what can be said against such Deceivers as these These are Hereticks indeed some of the worst when others cannot be so call'd though they are too often so but rather Erraticks and perhaps we are all such though some more than others As I have recommended the Snake in the Grass so I will Pennyman's Paper call'd The Quakers Contradictions according to the Times and their Interest Once a Quaker but left them for their Folly and Madness Some have said as he proves out of their Writers That their Writings are equal to the Scriptures and of as great Authority Some That the Scriptures are Carnal Dust Death Others have declared before the Lord That such words were never spoken by Friends which if not great impudence must be great ignorance For it may be Friends in one place know not what Friends in another place do say or Print I therefore commend Pennyman for sometimes repeating their words and no more He proves that they that have denied the Scripture to be the word of God have called their own Writings so Some have said That they are no Ministers but are under the curse that be not infallible and speak not immediately from God that cannot resolve all doubts and convince all Gainsayers What a cursed sort of Teachers then say I are most of the Quakers Teachers who are so far from this that they cannot speak tolerable sense nor pronounce right many common words They also have said That they that have not the Spirit of discerning and know not Mens state infallibly upon the sight of them cannot apply themselves to them accordingly not knowing whether they be holy or unholy But did they know all the Priests and Jesuits that came among them whom they almost adored Bedlo told my Brother how often Whitebread and he as well as other Papists had been at Quakers Meetings that Whitebread Executed was a Speaker Why discerned they not such Speakers that have been found to have lived in Drunkenness Whoredoms Must you know hearts too this is the work of Christ Judas was not smelt by the Disciples Some say they know Thousands of Friends that are free from Sin Once they all pretended to be so and that they that were not so were not of God but of the Devil Some say That Friends be all of one Mind and Soul Yet we know there are great divisions among them here at home and beyond Sea He tells you of a Quaker's stealing the Hour-glass out of a Church and that Fox said If a Friend be moved to such a thing by the Lord by the Eternal Spirit it is defended Now you Priests and Steeple-house Wardens look to the Silver Vessels used in the Sacrament for if a Friend should be moved to take them away by the Eternal Spirit it would be defended Some of the Separate Quakers have desired Liberty of Conscience in things not Evil as was once pleaded for but they cannot be heard Some have condemned asking any thing of outward Rulers Others have often Petitioned King and Parliament The Quakers Speakers take the chief Seats in their Assemblies now though once they condemned it Many now in Disputes and Discourse use terms others condemn as wicked Some have said It is laid on them by Christ not to Sue any Man at Law others I say have done it and as I have been credibly informed they that would not take an Oath in Bristol have in London Pennyman tells you how Penn blamed the Church of England in the Reign of the Late King James for Censuring the King's Acts and Reflecting on Roman Catholicks as not Manners nor Justice He cites the Book Some have said If the Spirit direct to fight we have nothing to say against it Others say they can never be directed by the Spirit to any such thing for it is not of God He speaks of their rudeness to him saying he deserved to be whipp'd at a Carts tail that they thrust him in the side with a stick Yet all these were Inspired and Infallible in contrary Doctrines Now having given an account of these two excellent Writers Let me a little consider the Plea of some among us for this People Question 1. Are not the Quakers more sober than once they were Yes and many know not the Opinions nor Practices of their first old Leaders No Men or Women run up and down Naked now c. Question 2. Are they not a People very Temperate above others Let every Man speak as he finds I lived long next door to one who was found out to be a
shalt surely dye Gen. 2.17 Now Eve was concerned in this as well as Adam though not then made for she grants it to the Serpent Gen. 3.3 God hath said Ye shall not eat of it lest ye dye The Woman being deceived was first in the Transgression Now where there is no Law there is no Transgression 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now whether God gave the Commandment to Eve immediately as he did to Adam or mediately by Adam who can tell This Sentence Thou shalt dye was definitive not barely Comminatory like that of Jonah Jonah 3.3 Yet within forty days and Niniveh shall be destroyed Therefore a Saviour to dye in our stead became necessary He died that day as God past Sentence on man Gen. 3.19 Dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return As a wounded man mortally wounded cries out I am a dead man Adam was not dead Naturally for he lived many years Gen. 5.5 but Legally so as when the Judge hath past Sentence we say He is a dead man though Body and Soul be not parted days or weeks after The Devil made use of the Serpent And our first Parents I think knew nothing of Devils or Fallen Angels which is ignorantia purae negationis and consistent with a perfect state as for Christ not to know as not the Angels the day of Judgment If some say The Serpent is not more subtle than any Beast of the field let them remember neither doth Moses say he is but he was and who can tell what the Serpent was before his Curse The Basilisk and other Serpents stand up in curious Colours like Man Now some think from Gen. 3.6 When the woman saw the tree was good for food and good to make one wise she took and did eat and gave to her husband and he did eat How the Temptation was for how could she know this before she eat They therefore imagine the Devil or Serpent saying to this effect O Woman thou knowest the great Creator made me a Sensitive Creature and thou feest I am now become Rational I can discourse with thee understand thee and give thee a reply How came this change It was by trying the Virtue of the forbidden Fruit. As I of a Sensitive Creature am become Rational thou by trying the secret Virtue of this Tree of a Rational Creature wilt become Divine and so more like God than he will have thee to be Now wherein could the Devil more act like himself than this way For Sin Gen. 3.24 God drove out the Man from Paradise the lower Heaven and a woful change was there on Man by the first Transgression Of a Man dwelling in Paradise conversing there with God he was cast out into a wide Desart conversing with Beasts How sad was it to see Nebuchadnezzar sitting on the Throne at one time grazing among Beasts at another When Tamerlain caused Bajazet to be carried up and down in a Cage he beat his Head against the Cage and would cry O give me my Kingdom Knolls 's Turk Hist How doth King James think of Three Kingdoms lost by Perjury and Tyranny and Folly Of a wise Creature he became ignorant of God of himself of things made by God How sad was it to see the famous Cheynil famous for Learned Tracts make Balls of his in Bedlam and so others Of an holy Creature he became sinful the seeds of all sins were in his Nature out of the heart proceed murthers adulteries and all wickedness Anatomize the heart The tongue is set on fire of hell and though many wild Beasts and Serpents have been tamed by man yet the tongue can no man tame it is unruly evil full of deadly poyson James 3.6 7 8. His Life is abominable Psalm 14.7 8. The fool hath said There is no God They are corrupt abominable The same Words or the same Psalm you read Psalm 53. Now this was done twice by David and not mentioned twice by the Composer of the Psalms because the Titles differ and they were written by the same hand the Psalms were The one is To the chief Musician A Psalm of David The other A Psalm of David upon Mahalath Maschil To the chief Musician Of a happy Creature Man became miserable in his Body Pains Sickness in his Soul Trouble Sorrow Fears in his Enjoyments Disappointment Perplexities miserable in Time and Eternity Now the Tree of Life was so sacramentally and symbolically as signifying and preserving Life to him if he had stood The other Tree of the Knowlege of Good and Evil was only so ab Eventu That Man if he stood should know the good he had gotten and the Evil he had escaped If he fell he should know the Good he had lost and the Evil he had incurr'd For it could not be so call'd à forma esse rationalis nor ab effectu per se Hence saith David Psalm 51.5 I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother â—â—ceive me To say he speaks of his Mother's sin in the Conjugal Act it is contrary to David's design He confessing his Murther and Adultery runs up his Sin to the Fountain-head What was this to say My Mother sinn'd Dr. Jer. Taylor and other Denyers of Original Sin urge that in Job 33.18 That he took care of the widow from his mother's womb which is a Hebrew Phrase for early say they I believe Job was compassionate when young and tender and knew his Duty that way But doth he say I took care of Widows when I was shapen when I was conceived In the Womb and from the Womb are different things I know this Error is a growing Weed in the Church of England tho they subscribe to the 39 Articles and so to Original Sin O say some they are but Articuli Pacis Then may Anabaptists subscribe as well as you nay better who deny Infant-Baptism though there afferted and those that deny the Hierarchy And what indeed is Subscription worth at this rate But I pray you that put this Cheat on your selves Do you not baptize Children according to the Form in the Liturgy which bottoms all on Original Sin and on all mens being born in sin Now what need have they of Baptism the sign of washing away of sin that have no sin Therefore the old Pelagians and the Socinians that denied Original Sin were against Infant Baptism and must be so unavoidably but our Arminians of this mind stick at nothing Original Sin may be seen early in Children What Pride and Envy and immoderate Desires after what they would have see we early in them as Austin in his Confessions observes And besides Doth God lay Misery where was no preceding Sin If by Sin comes Death do they â—â—t and perish poor Infants that never sinn'd Sin so set Man against God that it is said 6. Gen. 6. It repented the Lord that he made man on the earth and it grieved him to the heart Man soon shewed himself to be such a Creature that no Messengers from