not only the name and title as it is vsually called besides your own grant but the cōstitutiō also sheweth for it hath a pastor over the whole nation the Archbishop of Canterbury Metropolitan and Primate over all England your most reverend father in God who maketh consecrateth the Diocesian Bishops whereupon ariseth Diocesian Churches or Sees and they againe make your Parish Priests to the Archbishops and to his successours the inferiour Bishops haue sworne So help them God in Iesus Christ all due reverence and obedience This your book of consecration sheweth and we desire you to shew vs warrant for those things in the Scripture if you can or else shew vs where you haue learned them In your 8 Demand you say thus The name calling and office of these Bishops for either you must meane these Bishops or the like or else you speake nothing to the matter in hand Whether say you wee respect ordination of ministers or power of jurisdiction is the same for substance expressed in the New testament And this you say hath been and will be proved seeing it hath had a continuall succession from the Apostles time vnto this day c. If you were as redy to proove as you are to affirme things then were your valour something worth But you and the rest are so loth to be drawne to prooue yow ministry and ordination by the word of God that if you cannot make vs take your word for the lawfullnes therof then you will try by all means possible how you can get vs into some prison and keep vs there vntill you haue founde your proofe out of some other darke corner for by the light of Gods worde wee thinke you will never be able to proue the lawfullnes thereof These things that you say have indeed been often by others affirmed but never otherwise proved then by you at this present But if you good sir would now take the payns to proue what you haue saide by the word of God your paines would deserue thanks of many And withall let me intreat you sir I pray you because you say it hath had a continuall succession from the Apostles time vnto this daye to shewe me for my learning which of the Apostles was the Arch Apostle or Archbishop If you please so to call him ouer or before all the rest and from whom or by what authority he had that high place and Lordly office And also where and with whom he left that his Arch-Metropolitane authoritie to lord it over the rest as these do at this day as you say I professe vnfainedly that if I could see these things proved by the word of God I would soon through Gods mercy change my minde But in the meane time to let passe the rest of that frothie stuffe which might be raked together in these your 7 and 8 Demands I will come again to your 7 demand though I could from the 16.17.18 and 19. lines in your 8 Demand light you such a candle as I think you would be loath that any should see the light thereof but I will not blow at that cole now yet you against your will I am sure haue made a fayre beginning to kindle it where you say thus The Pope was not Antichrist before he had gotten the title of vniversall Bishop nor compleat vntill he had gotten into his bands both swords that is both Civill and Ecclesiasticall Dominion if I should now add but a little of your owne fuell to that coale these your words would discover a great part of the mistery of iniquity which growes in your ministry at this day But to let that passe nothing doubting but God in his good time by the brightnes of the Gospel wil cause the same to appear more and more dayly I will come to your 7 Demand where you tell vs of the Gospell soundly and substantially taught and professed and the sacraments so rightly administred and received in your Church as for proportion no country in the world you say nor Nationall Church whatsoever can affoord the like c The like vaine boast of all the grounds of Christian religion soundly held and professed c. I met with in your third Demand but neither there nor heare you speake any word of the practise Christian religion and of the kingly power and office of Christ governing your Church of these things you say nothing nothing how Christ ought to reigne as King in his Church by his owne Lawes and ordinances executed and administred in and by his owne offices and officers which he hath given unto and appointed in his Church forthat worke Ephe. 4.11.12.13 Rom. 12.6.7.8.9 Not a word of this I pray you Sir let not this candle be light howsoever you do you may make your people think that Christ will be a Prophet to teach them and a Priest to sacrifice for them though he be not a King to rule and reigne over them in and by his owne Lawes and officers they peradventure know not or dare not tell you that this is a denying of apart of the mediatorship of Christ therefore Sir as long as you can let them not know the kingly office of Christ nor what the Holy Ghost saith in Luk. 19.27 let them know no other government for the Church but your spitituall courts it wil serue their turne well enough untill the Lord shall moue their harts better to consider and discern the truth of his will reveiled in his word which in his good time he will do unto all those that earnestly desire and with upright harts seeke and labour to worship and serue him in spirit and in truth And now I will labour to shew the deceit of your vainglory in boasting of the word and sacraments which you say are so soundly taught and administred c. You would haue us and all men take it for granted that the nation of England is the true visible Church of Christ which you are not able to proue then you go on telling us of the sound and substantiall things in this your Church but we would first intreat you to shew us your Church constituted and builded according to the scripture if your Church be as you would make us beleue then shew it that we may see and discerne whether it be soundly and substantially built of choyse trees and of pretious living stones to the best of mans discerning hewed and squared and fastned together according to the heavenly patterne every stone living elect and pretious I say still in the best of mans discerning every stone hauing his beauty his burden and order all of them laboring to support one another to edifie one another to exhort to admonish and reproue one another that so they may be the habitation of God as these scriptures do shew Exo. 19.5.6 and chap. 25.8.9 40. 1. Chro. 29.2 Zach. 14.21 compared with Heb. 8.1.2.5.6 c. Chap. 9.11.14.1 Pet. 2.4.5.7.8.9 Act. 2.37.41.42 Rev. 1.5.6 Heb. 3.13 Chap. 10.24.15 Lev. 19.17
former answer affirmed thē to be true constituted Churches that they haue a true lawful ministry set over thē whereby you see we do not alltogether distaste them as much as we doe yours And now to this your Demand which is why we do not adioyne our selves vnto them c. I think this may serue for answer we can not vnderstand their language and I think you cannot giue vs any good reason why we should adioyn our selves to worship God though in a true Church when we can not vnderstand what they say for how should we profit or be edified by their doctrine how should we say Amen to their giving of thanks seeing we know not what they say 1. Cor. 14.16.17 You yet further Demand Why we do not in iudgement assent vnto any or all those reformed Churches that with a ioynt consent as may appeare you say by the harmony of confessions acknwledge the Church of England to be a true Church and giue it the right hand of fellowship how dare they say you refuse c. To this I answer I do not know that the word of God bindeth vs to assent vnto the iudgment of true Churches any further then we vnderstand their iudgment to assent with and agree vnto the word of God True Churches may err in their iudgment of another Church especially if they be not rightly informed of their estate as it appeareth the reformed Churches are not rightly informed of yours for how then can they approue of the constitution ministry spirituall governours spirituall governmēt of your Church to be warrantable by the word of God but they must in so doing condemne themselues for in all these points they are as far contrary to you as white and black true and false are the one to the other and I suppose none will say that two such cōtraries can be both true But mind with all the Apostle saith to perticular Churches and persons iudge ye what I say 1. Cor. 10.15 beleeue not every spirit but try the spirits c. 1 Ioh. 4.1 And againe if any man preach otherwise vnto you then we haue preached let him be accursed Gala. 1.8.9 Now you seeme to teach vs another Gospell for you would not haue vs iudge and try our selues and others by the word of God but send to other Churches in Germany in France and Geneva heare what they say and what they iudg for truth or falshood if they approue who dare disalow if they giue the right hand of fellowship how dare we refuse c. Thus you daube with vntempered morter haueing nothing but such ould popish valour to countenance your Counter-Demands doth ill beseeme a man of your place and learning Heare what the word of God saith To the Law and to the Testimony if they speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Isay 8.20 Your leaving of this Law and this Testimony makes vs leaue you you may as well bid vs put out our owne eyes that other men may lead vs and as soone will we follow you in that as in this your popish counsell We haue learned to liue by our owne faith and to know that every man must bear his owne burden and answerr for him selfe vnto God Hab. 2.4 Gala. 6.5 And to think that any may excuse them selues or be the boulder because they haue the approbation of others when they can not approue themselues by the word of God will proue but an evill and false delusion of Sathan therefore seeing that all men even whole Churches may erre in their iudgments let every man take heed how he iudgeth and how he dependeth on other men and makes flesh his arme and will not heare the word of the Lord that reproveth his iniquities As for the reformed Churches we beleeue that they reioyce for the many truthes you witnes against Popery and we also do the like but if you rely vppon their aprobbation and will not examine your waies and try your selves by the word of God you may perish in your sins and other churches shal not be able to excuse or saue you And thus I think your sixt Demand is sufficiently answered Let him that readeth consider 7 Demand Your 7 and 8 Demands are so much alike that one may iudge them to be twins they resemble either other and so vnlike the rest therfore this answer shall serue for them both vntill further occasion be offered In your seventh Demand you thus begin How can the Church or Church assemblies bee false c. 7 Answer I answer your Church and Church-assemblies of England may be false for ought that you haue yet said to the contrary but if we might intreat you to set foorth and shew vs the right forme and fashion of the building of your Church we should the better discerne it and giue you a directer answer to your Demand then now we can do but in the meane time we will a little consider and examine what you say In these words of yours how can the Church or Church-assemblies c. you grant the whole nation to be a Church then me things you seeme to devide that Church into many Churches calling them Church Assemblies meaning thereby as I coniecture your Parish-assemblies 8 Demand And so it appeareth by your 8 Demand where you write thus How can the formall state as they call it of the provinciall diocesan cathedrall and Parishonall Churches of England and the regiment thereof be vnlawfull c Here you haue foysted in a word or two which I found not in the former which word because I vnderstand it not as you peradventure meane therefore I will not meddle with it neither will I meddle with popish names and titles of your Churches though you muster them vp so valorously as if you ment to terrifie the readers with the very names of them only this I finde your demand in both to be how the Church and Parish-assemblies of England can be false the rest dropt or rather scattered abroad throughout your Demands is but your vnsavery salt which you haue cast out vpon the dunghill of your counter work all being as you think so couched together as that it cannot be easily raked abroad but I will try if by the help of God and the truth of his word I can shew what vnsavery stuffe it is 8 Answ To these your 7. and 8. Demands I answer that to hould and maintaine a nationall Church that is to hould that any nation can be a church now in the time of the Gospell we deeme to be erroneous and false and do affirme that no warrant or defence for it can be found in the word of God It is an humane invention and differeth from the testament of Christ which sheweth many Churches to be in a nation or Country as in Iudea Asia Galatia c. Gala. 1.2.22 Rev. 1.4 But not any nation to be a Church Now that yours is a Nationall Church
compared with that which is written for answer to the last 4 lines of your second Demand and I think it will giue sufficient satisfaction and for the better cleering of all other meanings I will demand of you these two questions desiring your answer if not printed yet under your hand writing Quest 1. Whether Christ be not the only wise God and everlasting King and perfect law giver to his Church and whether all Kings Potentats Princes and people be not bound to submit themselues as true and faithfull subiects unto him and to his lawes given unto his Church or whether any or all of them may by their royall power learning or authority alter change leaue out or ad unto any of those lawes which Christ hath already set forth in his last will and testament Quest 2 Whether every particular man and consequently all men be not bound by the word of God to separate themselues from every knowne sinne and error whether in faith or conversation of life that the Lord shall giue him sight of and labor diligently to reforme themselues and their families according to the law and will of God revealed in his word without the consent of the Christian Prince and Magistrates under whom hee liveth or whether they bee bound to go on and continue still in their sinne or error and not to separate from the same untill they haue first sued for and obtained the Princes and Magistrats leaue and licence and consent of the state that is indeed and breifly whether God must be God or no eexcept men will giue him leaue 10 Demand your tenth and last Demand is Whether it were not the Separatists best course to returne againe to Gods true Church and people from whom you say upon some conceited hard dealing they haue made an unlawfull rent and there to confer with the best learned and if still their consciences be somewhat tender to supplicate for some favour and liberty or if say you they will not take this course whether it weare not good for them for the avoiding of scandill and in expectance of some prosperous successe by the permission of our noble King and bonor able Counsell to remoue to Virginea and make a Plantation there in hope to convert infidels to christianity Although I can partly gesse in what humor you propounded this your Demand yet I will not answer you according to that your humor but I will answer you even as I desire to follow the truth in loue and peace with you and with all men I answer Those that haue separated and made an unlawful rent from Gods true Church and people as you say it is the best course for them to returne againe and with godly sorrow to manifest their true and unfained repentance for the unlawfull rent they haue made And that this may be the sooner effected and brought to passe seeing that you still take it for granted that your Nationall Church and Parish-Assemblies of England is the true visible Church of Christ I do once againe intreat you to shew vs the true forme and fashion of your Church And lay you apart all wrath and Envious Anger that so we may together in peace and love you with us and we with you take a view and consider of your Church and cōpare the form fashion therof with the forme and fassion of the true visible Church of Christ as it is described vnto us in the scripture If you can proue your Church or parish assemblies to be like vnto that true visible Church of Christ both for true matter whereof it is built viz. Saints And also for the maner of the building beeing coupled and combined according to the heavenly pattern Both you and all men shall see that I am willing not onely to returne againe but also to labour with godly diligence to live in a holy communion and fellowshipe with you laboring to obey the lawes and ordinances of our Lord and Saviour Iesus Christ supporting and strengthning one another in all loue And if this good and godly course maye be accomplished not onely I my selfe but all of vs that now are separated from you would much more willingly and gladly returne againe and labor to plant our selues againe in the meanest parte of England to inioy peace with holinesse and to follow the truth in loue among our kindred and friends in our owne natiue cuntry then either to continue where now many of vs as yet liue or to plant our selues in Virginia or in any other country in the world vppon any conditions or hope of any thing in this lyfe whatsoeuer Yet euen for Virginia thus much When some of ours desired to haue plāted our selues there with his majesties leaue upon these three grounds first that they might be means of replanting the gospel amongst the heathens Secondly that they might liue vnder the Kings government Thirdly that they might make way for and unite with others what in them lieth whose consciences are greived with the state of the Church in England the Byshops did by all means oppose them and their friends therein and though they aboue other men pretend the planting of the Gospell amongst heathens as you here do yet haue they been rather content that the most vile miscreants in the kingdom and such as were rather like to turne christians to heathens then to make of heathens Christians then they And thus much for answer to your ten Counter Demaunds nothing doubting but we shall be able to beare the waight of your next blow with patience when it comes forth If in the meane tyme I haue not answered you to any or all these your demands as you desire yet I haue endevoured my selfe to do it according to truth in the best of my vnderstanding as the word of God hath directed me I doe intreat you sir not to suffer the vnaduised anger of your owne evill and froward hart cause you to take things in the worst part although I cōfesse that at the first sight or view hereof this my harsh rude and vnlearned writing may seeme vnpleasant and offensiue yet vppon better and more serious considerations you shall haue lesse cause to find fault Therfore sir When you finde heerein any thing that may moue you to take offence I pray you passe by it in loue shew you forth that godly patience which you somtime teach to others Remember sir He that is slow to wrath is of great wisedome but he that is of a hastie minde exalteth folly Pro. 14.29 And againe he that is slowe vnto anger is better then the mightie man and he that ruleth his owne mynde is better then he that winneth a Citty Pro 16 32. Consider also sir It is you that haue drawne me to write and therefore you haue the lesse cause to be angry with me except your hart be enuious full of deceit malice couetousnes pride and vainglory Rom. 1.29.30.31 against which things cōsidering how euill they be in any it may be hoped that you haue learned to striue Philip. 2.3 and doe labour to be purged from an evill conscience Heb. 10.21.22.23.24 I pray you sir beare with mee for writing thus vulearnedly I haue endevoured my selfe in the best manner that I can to speake according to the word as taught of the holy Ghost from which where I haue swarved or abused the same I humbly craue of you of euery godly wise Reader Christian correction rather then pardon for it ought to goe before and shall be more profitable vnto me yea greater every way shall the benefit therof be both for me and for others also for I being better instructed shall through Gods mercy both repent and learne to amend my faults and others shall reape the fruits of Gods graces which more plentifully by your godly and diligent care louingly to correct what you see amisse vnto the which dutie of loue if I may any way stir you and others vp I shall not thinke my labour wholy lost but shall be very glad to see you and others so well affected Fare yee well Let all Glory and honor praise and thankes be giuen to God alone FINIS