Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	day_n	remember_v	sabbath_n	12,562	5	10.2797	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A55374	A dialogue between a popish priest, and an English Protestant. Wherein the principal points and arguments of both religions are truly proposed, and fully examined. / By Matthew Poole, author of Synopsis Criticorum.	Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679.	1667 (1667)	Wing P2828; ESTC R40270	104,315	254

Tell me I pray you do you not hold that there are two kinds of Religious Worship namely absolute which you give to God or the Saints and relative which you give to their Images Pop. I must own it Prot. Then it is horrible impudence to say you do not give worship to the Images since you give one of these two kinds unto them and unto them only besides if all you say were true this would not acquit you from Idolatry for your Church professeth and commandeth the Worship of the Images of Saints as well as of God and Christ and since it is Idolatry to give Divine Honour to any creature as I before proved you are no less guilty in giving it to the Saints themselves than to their Images and so you are double-dy'd Idolaters My second Argument is taken from the second Commandment Thou shalt not make any graven Image But first I pray you tell me true hath your Church left out this second Commandment in divers of her Breviaries and Offices of Prayer or do our Ministers slander them I hear that In the Hours of our Lady Printed at Paris An 1611. The Commandments of the first Table are set down in these words and no other 1. Commandment I am the Lord thy God thou shalt not have nor worship any other God but me 2. Commandment Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain 3. Commandment Remember to keep holy the Sabbath Day and Feasts And that the Council of Ausburg Ann. 1548. delivering the Commandments in Dutch for the People leave out the mention of Images and that their cheat might not be discovered that the people might have their full number they make use of the mistake of one of the Fathers and divide the last Command into two against Sense and Reason and the practice of the whole ancient Church Are these things so Pop. It is true it is left out in some of our Books but we leave it in in all Bibles and divers of our Catechisms Prot. Very well I see you had wit in your anger I commend your discretion that you did not your work so grosly that all the world should cry shame of you But that you blotted it out in any is an evidence of your guilt but what say you to this Argument Pop. Then my first answer is That this Command was peculiar to the Iews who were most prone to Idolatry Prot. This is not true It sufficiently appears that the Gentiles were under the obligation of this Law from those punishments which God inflicted upon them for their transgression or breach of it by Idolatry Rom. 1. But where there is no Law there is no transgression Besides Christ tell us He came not to destroy the Law the Moral Law but to fulfil it Mat. 5. 17. Belike you are not of his mind and dare you say the Jews as soon they believed in Christ were discharged from this command and allowed to worship the Images which that command forbad Pop. I will not say so but I have a second Answer The thing prohibited here is not Images which are representations of real things as you falsly render it but Idols which are the Images of false gods which are not and never were in the world Prot. The Text its self is full against you for the Images there prohibited are not said to be the Images of the false gods of the Heathens whereof many never had any being but the Images of any thing in heaven or earth c. Moreover divers of the Heathen gods were men whom they deified I hope their Pictures were Pictures of real things yet these are Idols Pop. Though they really were Men yet their pictures were made to represent them as gods and such they were not really and therefore were Idols Prot. The learned Heathens knew as well as you and I do that Iupiter and Mars and Mercury and the rest were meer Men and they smiled at the ignorance of their Vulgar that thought otherwise only they thought of them just as you do of the Saints that the great God had put some of his honour upon them and therefore they might worship them you cannot be so silly to think the learned Heathens thought Augustus was a god really when he was dead yet their worship of his Image was Idolatry And they that worshipped the Image of Caligula while he lived were not so sottish to take him for a god whom they knew to be a foolish and wicked man yet I hope you will not excuse them from Idolatry But further as the Jews did universally understand this to be a prohibition of all manner of Images so all the Prophets and Christ and the Apostles were so far from reproving them which they would have done if it had been an Error that they every where strengthen them in this opinion by declaiming against all worship of Images without any distinction And tell me I pray you if any Jew had at that time made for instance an Image of the Sun not looking on it as God but as a glorious creature of God and therefore fit to be religiously worshipped as you think of the Saints and Angels and had bowed down to it and worshipped it Do you think he had not broken this Law Pop. I dare not deny but he had broken it Prot. Yet this had been no Idol but an Image according to your sense of it Besides I find that all manner of Images are forbidden Lev. 26. 1. howsoever to me you seem to venture your salvation upon a nice point for the Hebrew word is neither Image nor Idol but Pesel as a Divine told me and this I understand is diversly translated some render it an Image others an Idol Now you ventrue your soul upon it that the last is the only true Translation which is a dreadful hazard because it is otherwise rendred not only by Protestants but by the most and best ancient interpreters even those whom your Vulgar Translation very oft follows in other places These render it not an Idol but a graven Image and the Seventy Interpreters I am assured po promiscuously render the word sometimes an Idol sometimes a graven Image Nay more than this that it may appear how desperately our cause is I am informed your own Vulgar Translation from which you are obliged not to swerve doth frequently render it not Idol but a graven Image Sculptile particularly in Exod 20. 4. Levit. 26. 1. and Deut. 4. 16 25. and 5. 8. Are these things so Pop. I cannot deny it for the Authors themselves would confute me But one thing I have to say you must understand one Scripture so as to agree with another Now I find God himself allows and prescribes some Images as those of the Cherubims either then he contradicts himself or he doth not forbid all Images but Idols only Prot. Though I might say God may make an exception to some of his Laws when no man can as

occasion to use this expression to confute that vain expectation of theirs But besides the meaning of this phrase Shall not be forgiven is that it shall be punished in both Worlds this is a frequent phrase in Scripture Thus Exod. 20. 7. God will not hold him guiltless that is he will severely punish To accept persons in judgment is not good that is is very bad The father of a fool rejoyceth not that is grieveth much I hear S. Chrysostome expounds it thus and a greater than he S. Mark 3. 29. He hath never forgiveness but is in danger of eternal damnation Besides all this we all agree that there is a kind of forgiveness of sin after this life and at the Day of Judgment Acts 3. 19. Repent that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord for then indeed the pardon of sin is compleated and fully manifested And it is a common phrase in Scripture to speak of a thing as done when it is only declared and manifested as the Apostle saith those words Psal. 2. This day have I begotten thee were fulfilled in Christs Resurrection Act. 13. because that declared him to be the only begotten Son o God as S. Paul saith Rom. 1. 4. To which I might add that by the World to come Christ may very probably understand the time of the New Testament which begun at Christs death The Iews I hear oft use this expression of the days of the Messias Nay the Apostle himself doth so Heb. 2. 5. This also I have read that the Iews did generally expect a more plentiful and glorious remission of sins at that time and so Christs meaning may be this That this blasphemy shall not be forgiven neither in that time nor state of the Church in which Christ then was nor in the time of the Gospel and Kingdom of the Messias which began at his death as I said when though there should be many great sins and sinners pardoned as we see there were yet this should not I hope you will not brag much of your Argument from this place let me hear your other place Pop. My second Argument is from 1 Cor. 3. 15. He shall be saved yet so as by fire that is the fire of Purgatory Prot. It seems you understand this fire properly which is something strange when the whole place is metaphorical or figurative The Gold and Silver Hay and Stubble all are metaphorical and so doubtless is the fire I hear your Bellarmin confesseth that the fire mentioned v. 13. The fire shall try every mans work is not meant of Purgatory Pop. He doth indeed say so Prot. That is enough to overthrow this Argument for it is most evident that the fire vers 13. and 15. is one and the same And this Fire cannot be Purgatory 1. Because it is the Fire of the Day of Judgement when you confess Purgatory ends The time of the last Judgement is called the Day by way of eminency Heb. 10. 25. 2 Tim. 1 12. 18. and 4. 8. and 1 Thess. 5. 4. And the day of revelation or manifestation of all things because then all mens works will be manifested and the day wherein Christ will come in flaming fire 2 This fire burns the works of men only their Hay and Stubble not their persons as your Purgatory doth 3 This fire tries both good and bad All pass through it The Gold and Silver is in this fire no less than the Hay and Stubble Pop. How then I pray you do you understand this place Prot. It is a Metaphor or Figurative way of speaking frequent in Scripture and common use The delivered Jews are said to be as a fire brand pluckt out of the burning Amos 4. 11. Zach. 3. 2. So here he shall be saved so as by fire that is not without difficulty of loss and possibly some momentany shame but howsoever the fire shall burn up his work and he shall lose that part of his reward Now I have heard your Arguments I hope you will hear m●ne Pop. I am ready to do that Prot. I shall urge only two First Christ hath fully paid our debt and satisfied Gods Justice for all our offences and therefore it were injustice in God to require the payment of any part of that debt in Purgatory Christ is a compleat Saviour His blood cleanseth us from all sin 1 Joh. 1. 7. He is able and sure he is no less willing to save to the uttermost those that come to him Heb. 7. 25. God laid all our sins upon him Isa. 53. and he bare them all in his body 1 Pet. 2. 24. In short either you make Christ but an half Saviour and believers wash away part of their own guilt or if Christ hath fully washed away their guilt you make god both unmerciful and unjust and untrue too so dreadfully to punish innocent persons and those too his own children as you acknowledge whom he declares he hath freely and fully pardoned and to do this for sins which you confess venial and such as do not deserve the loss of Gods favour and that without any necessity This is not the act of a Father especially so tender a Father as God is Pop. Christ is a sufficient Saviour and hath fully satisfied but his satisfaction is applied to us by the pains of Purgatory Prot. If Purgatory only apply Christs satisfaction to us then he satisfied for our temporal as well as our eternal punishments and if he did so surely he did it fully or not at all Besides you need not trouble your heads about the application God hath provided for us more comfortable means of application on his part the Word Sacraments and Spirit on our parts Faith You may keep Purgatory for your own use it is not fit you should be pestered with any Hereticks there But was ever such an application of Gods Grace heard of since the World began that God should apply his Mercy and the Grace of Christ Jesus by such exquisite torments This is as one truly saith as if a man should apply Physick by poison or apply the light of the Sun by putting out our eyes God deliver us from such appliers This is as if a Prince should pretend a free pardon to a Malefactor and apply it by putting him upon the Rack Pop. Though Christ made satisfaction for the guilt of mortal sins and eternal punishment yet he did not for venial sins nor temporal punishment and therefore they must purge out those themselves in Purgatory Prot. If it were true that you say yet there is no need of Purgatory for this purging worke may be done by temporal afflictions in this life The truth is you add sin to sin and excuse one errour with another But what do you mean by venial sins Pop. We mean such smaller sins as do not exclude a man from Gods favour nor from Heaven Prot. Then surely you have very slight thoughts