Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	day_n	reason_n	sabbath_n	12,233	5	10.0568	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85394	Hagiomastix, or The scourge of the saints displayed in his colours of ignorance & blood: or, a vindication of some printed queries published some moneths since by authority, in way of answer to certaine anti-papers of syllogismes, entituled a Vindication of a printed paper, &c. ... / By John Goodwin, pastor of a Church of Christ in Colemanstreet.	Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.	1647 (1647)	Wing G1169; Thomason E374_1; ESTC R201334; ESTC R201335	139,798	168

case the Parliament will please to undertake and settle a thorow and effectuall course that neither the simplicity of the Jury nor of the Judge nor yet the simplicity nor duplicity of any or all the Ministers of the Provinciall or Nationall Assembly shall be any prejudice to the lives or liberties of studious learned and conscientious Ministers or others it may very well be presumed that the Ordinance will have very little to doe in point of execution and that the principall use and service of it will be to put the Parliament upon the trouble of contriving and setling such a course In their 24 Answer p. 25. they bring forth strange children Sect. 82. As first That the fourth Commandement doth in the words of it require onely one day in seven to be kept holy as a Sabbath and doth not expressely command the observation of the Jewish Sabbath c. If so then were the Sabbaths which the Jews observed of their own chusing and how then doth God so frequently call them His Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep Exod. 31. 13. and Nehemiah in his prayer unto God expresseth himself thus And madest known unto them thy Holy Sabbath c. Neh. 9. 14. In which words he doth not onely appropriate the Jewish Sabbath unto God but likwise calls it his holy Sabbath i. a day which he hath sanctified Sect. 83. unto himself and his worship yea and expresly saith that God made it knowne unto them the Jewes i. revealed unto them on which day of the seven he would bee solemnly worshipped by them See also Levit. 19. 3. 30. Esa 56. 4. Ezek. 20 12 13. with other places many God is not wont to appropriate any thing unto himselfe which is of humane election in or any wayes appertaining unto his worship though sometimes he calls many of these things theirs to whom he hath given or appointed them And besides the reason of the Commandement for in six dayes the Lord made Heaven and Earth c. expresly characterizeth that very day as intended by God for a Sabbath unto them which they observed But the assertion is so empty and obnoxious that surely it will fall in the judgements of men without thrusting Secondly This Answer advanceth with this Divinity that within the generall scope of the Commandement which is the observing of those times and those onely as necessary to Religion which God himselfe appoints was included the Jewish Sabbath or Saturday before Christs Resurrection and the Christian Sabbath the Lords day is now since Christs Resurrection included also But First If the Jewish Sabbath was included in the Commandement or in the scope of the Commandement before Christs Resurrection how came it to be excluded after his Resurrection Hath the Resurrection of Christ any such influence upon the morall Law as to cause it to eject or cast out any thing formerly by way of duty contained or included in it Secondly If the scope of the Commandement be the observing of those times and of th●se onely c. which God himselfe appoints then how comes the observation of the Christian Sabbath or Lords day to be included therein considering that according to the Doct●ine of this Answer this day was no more appointed by God then any of the other six Or were all the six dayes besides as well included in it as this If so why are they not as well observed Thirdly If the Christian Sabbath or Lords day be now since Sect. 83. Christs resurrection included in the scope of the Commandement I would gladly know how or by what Authority or by whose act it hath beene brought within the verge of this scope so as to be included in it If Answer be made that it hath beene brought Sect. 83. in by the Authority or act of God then doth he not in this Commandement onely require one day in seven to be kept holy as a Sabbath but he requireth circumscriptively and particularly which of the seven he will have so kept If it be said that it hath beene brought in by the Church or by men then have men power to take it out againe and to put in any other of the six in the stead of it And how did the Resurrection of Christ contribute any thing towards the bringing of this day within● the scope of the Commandement if it depended upon the will and pleasure of men But into the secret of these mens Divinity in this place my soule as yet cannot finde the way to enter And Thirdly and lastly doe these men substantially prove that the morall Law contained in the ten Commandements is the rule of a Christians life onely by saying that the Christian Sabbath is now included in the generall scope of the fourth Commandement and that the Sacraments of the New Testament Baptisme and the Lords Supper are included within the scope of the second Commandement now First they prove not so much as the least haire of their heads amount unto of either of their assertions and yet neither of them lyeth so neare any known principle either of Reason or Religion that they need have feared the proverbiall reproof of lighting up a candle to see the Sunne in case they had bestowed a slender argument or two upon the clearing of them But secondly if what they affirme in both were granted yet their conclusion is not hereby gained For onely such a Law can properly be called a rule of life to Christians which either particularly or at least sufficiently prescribes and regulates all things necessary to be done by a Christian as a Christian Now the generall scope of the two Commandements specified and much more the Commandements themselves are so farre either from prescribing or regulating either of the duties respectively affirmed to be included in them that without particular direction for the performance both of the one and the other otherwise neither of them had ever beene practised by men notwithstanding the generall scope of the said Commandements yea and Commandements themselves I trust the Anti-Querists themselves do not make any such Law the Rule of their lives which neither teacheth nor directeth them what to doe To the twenty fifth Query desiring to know in what sense the Sect. 84. Sect. 84. Ordinance maketh it an Error to hold that a man by nature hath free will to turne unto God they returne this sleeve-lesse and froward Answer That there are scarce any words but a Caviller may pretend of them that they are to be understood divers wayes But good Gentlemen doth the Querist pretend this of the words in hand doth he not particularly assigne and plainely explicate two distinct senses wherein the said words may be taken humbly craving to know● which of the two was the sense intended by the Ordinance But I confesse that in High Presbytery where Authorativenesse hath her throne to desire a steady and distinct explication of things is constructively to cavill However it had been no such

all thy children shall be taught of the Lord and great shall be the peace of thy children b Isa 54. 13. Ioh. 6. 45. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour and every man his brother saying know the Lord. For they shall all know mee from the least of them unto the greatest of them c Jer. 31. 34. Sect. 10. And yet by the way I doe not conceive this to be the last estate or condition of the Saints wherein God will be ALL IN ALL. Reader I have drawne up this briefe Discourse in this place chiefly to give unto thee and to all the world a plaine and ingenuous account what my judgement and thoughts are about Civill Magistracie because I have been most unduly and untruly and in the very face of many demonstrations to the contrary both reall and nominall represented as an enemy to it and particularly by the Authors of that Vindication which not thorough any substance or weight in it selfe but by reason of the weaknesse of others giving a loud testimony of strength unto it occasioned the following Discourse I cleerly and freely acknowledge it to be an Ordinance of God yea an Ordinance of very gracious intentions unto men in him who is the Author and founder of it And though I conceive it to be a very tender Ordinance extremely obnoxious to take soyle and apt to lose the grace and beautie of it when it comes to be handled by men yet when it doth fall into cleane and tender hands it makes the Sunne ashamed and the Moone abashed at the brightnesse beautie and blessing of it Yea I conceive it to be an ordinance of that grand import and concernment unto the world during the present state of persons and things in it that it cannot lightly fall into hands so farre unsanctified or unworthy the administration and manage but that it will doe more then beare its own charges more then ballance the inconveniences which shall at any time attend the execution of it I looke upon it as the onely preventive appointed by God to keepe the world from falling foule upon it self and being destroyed by its own hands And as I judge those very impolitique Christians and as men rejecting the counsell of God for their spirituall good against themselves who by casting off Church-Ordinances by Pastors and Teachers seeme to catch at the spirituall priviledge of new Jerusalem before it be come downe from Heaven so doe I judge those very unchristian Politioians and as men rejecting the counsell of God likewise for their politique and civill good against themselves who thinke they should or might anticipate that other great priviledge of this Heavenly Citie which wee spake of freedome from Magistracie by a present ejecting of this Ordinance out of the world Alas though God as the Apostle informeth us hath provided better things for us who live under the Gospel then he did for his people under the Law yet if they who liv'd under the Law had cast off those Leviticall ordinances and observations appointed by God for their generation upon pretence of weaknesse and unprofitablenesse in them saying that they would not worship God at Jerusalem but onely in spirit and truth because this was more Evangelicall and perfect had they not attempted to put God himself to rebuke in his dispensations and withall consulted losse and disadvantage to themselves and their own soules in their spirituall if not in their temporall affaires also Those fruits which being gathered and eaten in the spring of the yeare whilst they are yet greene and sowre are apt to cause diseases and to prove destructive unto health if not unto life it selfe if let grow upon their trees untill Autumne or the due season of their ripening may now be gathered and eaten not onely without danger but with delight also advancement of health In like manner though the dayes be acoming when deliverance from that both Ministerie and Magistracie which now support and accommodate the Christian world though with a mixture of many disaccommodations in both will be as a resurrection from death unto life unto the Saints yet to attempt a deliverance from either untill the Lord God Allmightie and the Lamb shall vouchsafe to interesse themselves in such dispensations which shall eminently be both the one and the other as wee heard must needs be as a covering of the Sunne with sackcloath and a turning of the Moone into bloud I meane of a dark and dismall consequence unto the world For mine own part if I have or hereafter shall at any time Sect. 11. suffer any unjust or hard measure from either I may possibly plead the righteousnesse of the cause for which I suffer yea out of the case of suffering from either I may declare the mind of God as well touching the respective bounds limits interests and duties of either at least negatively as concerning the qualifications requisite in the persons to whom the dispensation either of the one or of the other ought to be committed thus farre I presume I keep within the compasse and bounds of my Profession but as I have never so I shall never God assisting disparage either the one Ordinance or the other in the least nor yet seek or counsell the devestiture of any person lawfully called to the administration of either except it be in submission and subserviencie unto that Magistracie which hath a lawfull power to devest upon just and lawfull grounds yea and to command my assistance in such a case as I make no question but that the Parliament of England hath within the circumference of this Kingdome Neither is there I am confident the least jot or tittle to be found in any of my writings which hath the least affinitie with either of these positions or assertions 1. that there ought to be no more no other kinde of Authoritie in the Civill State then in the Ecclesiastique 2. that the people have a lawfull power to devest or depose Magistrates lawfully called when or as they please Both these positions have been charged upon me as enmity against Caesar was upon Christ But as Christ though charged as an enemy unto Caesar was notwithstanding Caesars best friend and the greatest assertor of his Empire and power so however an undue representation hath been made of me as if I were of opposite affections to our present Magistracie and Parliament yet without the least touch of vanitie or disparagement unto any mans either affections or service to the Parliament be it spoken I have been and yet am as reall in affection as faithfull that I say not even fruitfull also in my service to the Parliament as any man whatsoever It hath been the hereditarie portion of the best and faithfullest Sect. 12. servants of God for many descents and generations from the hand of their enemies and those that sought their ruine to have all their sayings and doings any waies capable of the forme perverted into matter

of opposition and argument of disloyall intentions against the Rulers and Governours of this world Jerusalem was represented by her enemies as a rebellious Citie and hurtfull unto Kings and Provinces a Ezra 4. 15. The refusall of Shadrach Meshach and Abednego to worship the golden image which Nebuchadnezzar set up was represented to him by their enemies as done in contempt of him These men O King say they have not regarded thee b Dan. 3. 12. So Daniels praying unto God was brought to King Darius by his enemies in the forme and shape of a disloyal contempt of the King This Daniel which is of the children of the captivitie of Judah regardeth not thee O King nor the decree that thou hast signed but maketh his Petition three times a day c Dan. 6. 13. To passe by many other instances the Lord Jesus Christ himself onely asserting unto himself a Kingdome though with an expresse declaration that it was not of this world was for this notwithstanding accused before Pilate as an enemy unto Caesar Whosoever maketh himself a King speaketh against Caesar d Ioh. 19. 12. Whereas neverthelesse it is he by whom Kings reigne and Princes beare Rule e Pro. 8. 15 16. In like manner those who at this day are most single and sincere in their affections most loyall and faithfull in all their expressions to the honour and safety of the Civill Magistrate amongst us are notwithstanding by men of sinister and unworthy ends personated as men of destructive principles and practises to all Government Magistracie onely because they dare not calculate the power of the Magistrate for the meridian of the torrid zone of High Presbyterie and give unto Caesar the things that are Gods that so Caesar may have wherewith not to accommodate or gratifie himselfe in the least whether in point of honour or advantage in any kind but onely the lusts and desires of unreasonable men For as for the word Presbyterie and the Government of Sect. 13. that denomination concerning which some things are argued here and there upon occasion in the Discourse ensuing I desire to be understood toties quoties not of that Presbyterie which the Parliament hath thought meet to establish for a season in this Kingdome but as I cleerly distinguished in my thirty-one Querie that which is so importunely desired and maintained by the Ministers between this latter Government and the other there is a difference not much unlike that which is between the Lyon and the Lamb. The latter is like the fourth beast in Daniel which had great yron teeth dreadfull and terrible a Dan. 7. 7. which devoured and brake in pieces and stamped the RESIDUE i. whatsoever it did not or could not convert into its own substance with the feet of it having notwithstanding a presumptuous Inscription of JUS DIVINUM written in the forehead of it the former resembleth the wisdome which is from above being peaceable gentle and easie to be intreated b James 3. 17. and in these considerations of a farre better resentment I beleeve with Congregationall men then with those who in effect pretend and say that they can doe nothing without both powers the one formally the other eminently vested in them I commonly if not constantly characterize the Presbyterie which is the Great Contention of the Kingdome and contestation of my pen with the signall and proper Epitheton HIGH And so if my pen at any time bewraies either by reproofe Sect. 14. or otherwise any offence taken at my Brethren in the work of the Ministery who are of a dissenting judgement from me in the point of Government I desire in all such passages to be understood as speaking onely of such who violently contend for the High and Anti-Parliamentary way of Presbyterie and who being of Gangrena's gang and Procrustian race breath out nothing but fire fury and fiercenesse against all those who are either weaker or stronger either more foolish or more wise then themselves As for those whether Ministers or others who are led by the light of their consciences to serve their God both theirs and mine in the way of Presbyterie but are tender in obtruding their judgement or practise as the pattern in the Mount upon others my heart is with them their persons and pietie I reverence and honour nor doe I nor shall I in any parallel opportunitie for Christian service or converse make the least difference between them and those of mine own judgement As for Gangrena because I perceive that they who speake Sect. 15. reason and truth are but Barbarians unto her and speake a language which shee understands not and though shee hath been brayed in a morter among wheat with a pestill a Prov. 27. 22. yet nothing of her foolishnesse is departed from her I shall here take my leave of her in a few lines as not judging her worthy of being smitten any more with the pen but rather with the whip of correction yet not this for her conscience sake in matters of Religion but for her morall misdemeanors practised and persisted in against the common light and law of nature in her unworthy defamations and revilings of worthy and well deserving men and that by forged and vile reports published and spread abroad against them For doubtlesse shee pleaseth her selfe with the consolatorie discourse of the drunkard presented in the booke of the Proverbs by Solomon They have stricken me but I was not sick they have beaten me and I felt it not When shall I awake I will seek it yet againe a Prov. 23. 35. Nonsence in the highest found in her writings shee avouches for elegancies of phrase fell and fiery contradictions by tens by fifties by hundreds putid self-dawbing and self-admiring expressions arguings without any colour or semblance of reason in them Christian promises of candor and fairenesse perform'd in most Unchristian wrestings of words actions and other hatefull and maligne expressions forging of circumstances yea sometimes of whole substances in matters of fact to the reproach of godly learned and well deserving men with the like these are but light matters and no more considerable in any way of disparagement being found in her works then some straws lying upon the surface of a rich piece of land or some sticks broken in an hedge or a pane or two of glasse crack'd in the windows of a faire dwelling house are to prove a Lordship or Mann●r not to be excellent b Gangr 3d. p. 285. But if Gangrena's Antapologie be excellent such boyles botches such putrified sores and ulcers as these notwithstanding I would gladly know of her how vile and obnoxious she intends to be before she means to cry unclean unclean I am sound neither moralls nor intellectualls Some are of opinion that the Devills though they commit many foule and horrid acts continually yet they are Extra statum demerendi they sin not It seems Gangrena claims part

so cleare in any other Churches as it is here in England I see the morall of the fable verified if a man be the painter the Lyon shall be made to couch at his feet Thirdly That the truth of it is not setled in other Kingdomes or States as it is amongst us it seems they make a difference between cleering and setling and so I beleeve that in their sense there is a very great difference indeed the former being Gods way the latter mens In the fourth place they adde it may justly be beleeved that if he Calvin were now alive in this Kingdome he would not publish or maintaine any thing contrary to the observation of the Lords day as it is enjoyned by the Lawes and Ordinances of this Realm But may not the justnesse of these mens beliefe in this case be justly questioned Is it a just or righteous thing to beleeve or to suppose that a man of worth of able parts of eminent learning of a composed judgement of a tender conscience would baulk with God and his own soule in shunning to declare what upon mature studie upon diligent and faithfull inquirie he judgeth to be the counsell or will of God thorough feare of an Ordinance or Law in a civill State I beleeve if Calvin were now alive whether in this Kingdome or in any other he would conne these Gentlemen small thankes for such a commendation The dregs setled in the bottome of this Answer are these can it be lesse then a wilfull slaunder and malicious purpose of rendring the Ordinance odious to name death as a punishment for maintaining any thing against the Ordinances and Lawes about the Lords day c. But so this Querist deales in other of his Queries c. But let charity or reason or common sense or who yee will judge whether it be lesse then a wilfull slaunder and malicious purpose of rendering the Querist odious without a cause to charge him with naming death as a punishment for maintaining any thing against the Ordinances and Laws about the Lords day To Queree whether Calvin deserved either imprisonment or death for teaching and maintaining c. which is the tenour of the Queree is this to charge Sect. 56. the Ordinance with threatning death as a punishment for maintaining any thing about the Lords day against the Ordinances and Laws If not how can it render the Ordinance odious except haply it be either in the jealous consciences of such men who are under some regret and secret counterworkings of conscience through feare lest the Ordinance though pleasing to them that is to their flesh should yet be odious indeed in the sight of God or else in the over-jealous conceit of those whose chiefe hopes and comforts on earth are bound up in the honour and successe of the Ordinance and who lye under the bondage of this feare that if the Ordinance should prove odious in the eyes of men themselves should suffer and beare the same burthen with it To say that Nicholas or Matthew or any other person is either homo or BRVTVM is it any wayes to name or intimate that brutu●s is either the genus or species of either But when mens mindes are set to doe unworthily they become uncapable of greater differences then are between conjunctive and dis-junctive particles though there be no such affinity or likenesse between these which need incumber any sober mans judgement in or about their dijudication But Gangraena and her Paramour hath justified all the sons of Presbytery besides in all their slanders calumnies false aspersions malicious imputations and reports they that are malicious are not malicious in comparison of him that super-abounds in malice Omnis Caesarea cedat labor Amphitheatro Vnu●● pro cunct is fama loquatur opus Let all mens malice give Gangraena place Let Fame instead of all this one piece grace In their Answer to their twelfth Argument if they meane as Sect. 56. they say they make some part of atonement for their delinquency against the Queries hitherto For here they grant that no man is punishable for his meere mistake whatever his opinion be but for being so pertinacious in his mistake in matters of great consequence as that he will not forbeare to publish his mistakes to the infection of others and the mischiefe of their soules and to the ruine or at least miserable Sect. 57. disturbance of the Church of God I freely acknowledge that whosoever out of pertinacy in his mistake not onely in matters of greater consequence but even of lesser will not forbeare to publish his mistakes to the infection of others c. i. e. with a desire or intention to infect and mischiefe the soules of others c. deserves severely to be punished nor shall I ever plead mercy for such a man If the Ordinance had explained it self after any such manner as this I I presume with many others should have been satisfied in it without any more adoe and not have needed to crave satisfaction about it as now wee have done But in case any man shall really and conscientiously judge that opinion of his which others call a mistake and perhaps is so indeed to be a truth of God and shall withall really judge that he is bound in conscience to hold forth such an opinion as being in his judgement and conscience the undoubted truth of God and withall necessary to be published and made known unto men for their spirituall benefit and good in case I say the publishing of his opinion or mistake upon such termes as these shall prove the infection of others or inconvenience or if you will mischiefe the soules of others c. I have no ground either in Reason or Religion to judge this man worthy either death or bands Nay if to publish such mistakes and that even with pertinacy which tend to the infection of others and mischiefe of soules c. were a matter worthy either death or bands I have sufficient grounds both in Reason and Religion to judge and think that very many Ministers of the Anti-Independent interest yea many of very eminent repute amongst them would upon due examination and triall be found in the condemnation The strength of their Answer to their thirteenth Argument Sect. 57. leanes upon this staffe That the open and publique profession of errors is more pernicious then the practise of sins in a like kinde and degree they instance To teach there is no Christ is more dangerous they say then to live as if there were no Christ and yet make a profession of him Well but my judgement and the judgements I beleeve of many more and this Doctrine are at oddes But these men attempt a reconciliation by the mediation of this reason for the proofe of their Doctrine The one they mean the publique profession of errours justifieth what it doth as lawfull under pretended Sect. 57. grounds of truth The other practiseth and yet POSSIBLY not so impudently

of the High-Priest should be put to death Reader be pleased but to run over with thine eye that intire passage of Scripture from which these men breake ofF a few words to serve their turne and thou wilt be tempted at least with a jealousie lest they be men who make no scruple at all to build up the honour of their cause with the dishonour of the Scriptures Read Dent. 17. from the beginning of verse 8. to the end of the 12. verse For First Whereas they say he expresly commanded that EVEN in ALL controverted points he that would not stand c. the tenour of the Scripture as to this point speaketh thus If there arise ●matter too hard for thee in judgement between bloud and bloud between plea and plea and between stroke and stroke being matters of controversie within thy gates then shalt thou arise and get thee up into the place which the Lord thy God shall chuse c. † Deut. 17. 8. Is a matter of controversie between blond and bloud between stroke and stroke plea and plea about these ALL EVEN ALL controverted points Or is great A ALL EVEN ALL the letters of the Alphabet Secondly Are matters of controversie between bloud and bloud c. matters of controversie between Priest and Priest Scribe and Scribe about the exposition of some clause in the Law which are the onely matters queried in the Querie Thirdly Nor doth God in this passage of Scripture expresly command without caution and limitation that even in this controversie it selfe he that would not stand to the sentence of the Judge or High-Priest should be put to death but onely then when the Priests the Levites and the Judge should give sentence or informe them according to the Sentence of the Law * Deut. 17. 11. Fourthly Nor doth God here either expresly or so much as by intimation command that any man in what matter of controversie soever should be put to death simply for not being willing or content to stand to the sentence of the Iudge or of the High-Priest but onely for doing presumptuously and this in not hearkning unto the Priest that was then to stand to minister before the Lord his God or unto the Iudge * ver 12. i. e. as the words will well beare for contemning or affronting either the Priest or the Judge in their sentence or reproaching it as unjust without any consideration had upon it But in no reasonable construction of the word can he be said to do presumptuously who upon a respectfull and mature consideration of an opinion or sentence given and with expressions of reverence and honour towards him that either holds the one or gives the other is not able to bring his judgement or conscience to submit either unto the one as true or unto the other as just And yet Fifthly and lastly Evident it is from severall expres●ions in the passage of Scripture we speake of * Then thou shalt arise and get thee up into the place which the Lord thy God shall ch●s● v. 8. And thou shalt come unto the Priests the Levites and unto the judge that shal be in those dayes and inquire v. 9. And the man that will doe presumpt●ously will not hearken unto the Priests that ●●andeth to minister there before the Lord thy God c. v. 12. Sect. 108. that that sentence of the Priest or Iudge for the High Priest which the Gentlemen speake of appeares not at least under that title in the text against which he that should do presumptuously in not hearkning to it was to be put to death was onely such a sentence which the Priest did upon inquirie by Vrim and Thrummim receive immediately or however infallibly from the mouth of God himselfe And for my part if our Inquisitours can give any satisfying account that the sentence which they or any other Judge shall award against those who shall be found Delinquents against the Ordinance comes or is given unto them upon any such termes I meane by infallible revelation from God I shall thinke it equall and meet that hee that shall doe presumptuously and not hearken unto it should be put to death We have now had the soule of this Answer and have found it mortall yet what rejoycing is there in the words following as if it were crown'd with glory So farre is it say the men from Gods not giving in the Old Testament any Authority to make a controverted point a matter of death or imprisonment That which they say in these words is scarce sense that which I suppose they would say is not any thing they should say whether they had a minde either to speak Truth or to their purpose For first God never gave any Authority to make a controverted point a matter of death or imprisonment but onely a presumptuous misdemeanour against a Divine sentence given for the determination of such a point Secondly if he had made a controverted point matter of either yet unlesse this controverted point could be proved which yet hath not been so much as attempted to have been a point controverted between Priest and Priest between learned grave pio●s and conscientious men on both sides it had been nothing to the point in hand nor to the import of the Querie The Gentlemen Vindicators draw their last breath in these words And in this Answer to these Queries divers things have been s●ewed but none as hath been proved sufficient to prove that the same Authority belongs to the Civill Magistrate under the New Testament which is also generally exprest by Divines under that phrase of being Custos the Guardian of both the Tables of Gods Law and by the Prophet Esai 49. Esai 60. under those phrases of being Nursing Fathers to the Church and bringing in their glory to it which must needs imply using their Authority to suppresse th●se dangerous Errors and Heresies even by imprisonment or death inflicted upon the obstinate maintainers and publishers of them if no other means will serve Reader the common saying is verified in this Discourse or Vindication Qualis vita finis ita Such as the life such is the death It hath lived hitherto full of affection to the cause of high Presbytery but hath spoken weakly for it So now it dies without any declining in the one or raising it self up in the other But First what the meaning of Divines is in that gener all expression Sect. 109. The Civill Magistrate is Custos utriusque Tabulae the keeper of both Tables I confesse I doe not well understand If it had been the saying of an Apostle I should I conceive have judged my self under a deeper ingagement to make a district inquiry into it then now I doe The richest and best sense of the saying that I know is this The Civill Magistrate is the keeper of Both Tables that is is in speciall manner obliged by vertue of his Office and High Place of dignity amongst men whereunto God