seeketh after miracles and though Miracles should be given they who will not beleive the testimony of the Spirit of God in their consciences bearing witnesse to the truth will not also beleive becaus of Miracles as wee see plainly in the Jewes And whereas thou sayest Iohns immediate call is evident by the special predictions both of Malachy and Isayas concerning him So are there many speciall predictions concerning the Lord his pouring forth of his Spirit upon many in these latter dayes to prophecy or minister as the Spirit should putt words into their mouths And as for these Scripturs Tit. 1. 5. Ast. 14. 23. which thou bringst in the Fifth place they prove not that those Elders had not the Authority and call of the Spirit of God in themselves And whereas in the Sixth place thou sayest though Ministers be set apart and ordained by men yet their Ministry is not from men but from God I answer where the inward call and Authority of the Spirit of God is not witnessed it cannot be said to be of God And though Moses be said to consecrate Aaron yet it doth not follovv that Aaron had no immediat call from God Seventhly thou sayest The ministry is so necessary that it is the will of Iesus Christ that it should continue unto the end of the VVorld Eph. 5. 12. 13. But thy proofe from that Scripture is altogether impertinent as to you vvho believe not that the Saints can be perfected in this life seeing the Ministry is given for the perfecting of them And that this perfection is on Earth is clear from the follovving verse That hence forth wee be no more as Children tossed to and fro for in the other life there is no hazard of being so tossed And if the Ministry perfected not men in this life it no where perfecteth them for in the other life it hath no operation upon them The Law and Priesthood therof was abolished becaus it made nothing perfect and if the Gospell Ministrie should not make perfect it should also be abolished And seeing your Ministrie perfecteth not it is not the true Ministrie of the Gospell as indeed it is not for it standeth not in the power of God nor is it exercised in the will motion of God your Ministrie being such that the whole ESSE or BEING of it may be without saving grace or true holines you expresly affirming that holines is not necessary to the being of a Minister but that a man may be a Minister of the Gospell who ought to be received and heard though hee have not the least graine of holines Eighthly thou sayest they who cast off the Ministerie of the word wrong their owne soules c. Ansvv. if it be understood of the Ministry of Christ it is granted but of yours it is denyed In the Fifth place Pag. 44 Thou vvouldst prove that the Lords people are under a tye engagement to keep the first day of the vveek for a Sabbath For a First Reason thou sayest the Fourth commandement requires the keeping holy of one day of seven but as it requires the observation of one day of seven so it expresly instanceth that day to be the seventh vvhich day yee keep not vvherfor as to the Second Reason If the command be morall and perpetuall as thou callest it it ought to be kept in every point of it vvhich yee not doing therein condemne your selves but the outvvard Sabbath or the keeping one day of the vveek for a Sabbath is not perpetuall but abolished together vvith the new moons and other feasts of the Jevves see Coloss. 2. 16. 17. Let no man judge yâ—u in meat or drink or holy day or new moone or sabbath dayes which are a shadow of things to come See also Rom. 14. vvhich plainly holds forth all dayes under the Gospel to be alike and said Paul to the Galathians yee observe dayes c. I am afrayd of you For a Third Reason thou sayest that Iesus Christ plainly intimates the continuance of a Sabbath becaus that speaking of the desolation of Ierusalem he said pray â—hat your flight be not in the winter nor on the Sabbath day Ansvv. but that Sabbath day is neither here nor else vvhere said to be the first day of the vveke The Jevves vvere to fly at that time and Christ holds forth their difficulties that it should be grievoâ—s unto them to be put to it to fly on their Sabbath day or be killed For they kept it in the strictnesse of it but as for any of your Sabbath keepers they are not so strait-laced but they will doe lesse necessary things then to fly from a danger on that day And as the outward Jew deâ—ireth that hee may not be putt to fly on his outward Sabbath so the inward Iew in Spirit desireth much more that hee may keep his Sabbath which is his Spirituall rest in Christ that the enemy oft seeketh to breake to cause him to fly on his Sabbath day but this to you is a Mistery Viz. what the Sabbath of them who beleive is Heb. 4. 9. 10. There remaineth therfor a Sabbatism to the people of God and hee that is entred into his rest hath ceased from his owne works as God did from his And that this Sabbath or rest is not an outward day is plaine becaus in the next verse hee saith let us labour therefore to enter into that rest But if it were an outward day it might be easily entred into but this is such a rest as none can enter into who hearken not to the voice of the Lord by beleiving and obeying it For a Fourth Reason thou sayest though yee keep not the same day the Iewes did yee have the same authority for keeping your day that they had for theirs Hence this day that wee keep sayest thou is called the Lords day Rev. 1. 10. it being set apart by the Lord for his service and as a Special memorial of his Resurrection Answ. but for all this here is no probation at all but meer assertions If yee have the same Authority produce it and let us see it Iohn was in the Spirit on the Lords day therfor the first day of the week ought to be kept how hangs this together Prove that Iohn meant the first day of the week wee read much in Scripture of the day of the Lord which is the Lords day but no where doe find it called the first day of the week or any other naturall day For it is spirituall and as God called the naturall light day so hee calleth the Spirituall light of his appearance where the Sun of righteousnes ariseth with healing under his wings Day And this is the day of the Lord wherin his people rejoice and are glad And whereas thou sayest it is set apart by the Lord as a Speciall memoriall of his resurrection This is thy naked assertion without any shadow of proofe if thou wilt say that therefore it is to be a holy
Truth cleared of Calumnies Wherein A Book intituled A Dialogue betwixt a Quaker and a Stable Christian. Printed at Aberdeen and upon good ground judged to be writ by William Mitchell a Preacher neer by it or at least that he had the Cheife hand in it is examined and the disingenuity of the Author in his representing the Quakers is discovered Here is also their case truly stated cleared demonstrated and the Objections of their Opposers answered according to truth Scripture and right Reason By ROBERT BARCLAY Isai. 53 1. Who hath believed our report and to whom is the arme of the Lord revealed Joh 5 39. 40. Yee search the Scriptures because in them ye think to have eternal life and they are they which testify of me and ye will not come unto me that ye may have life Matth 5 11. Blessed are yee when men shall revile you and say all manner of evill against you falsely for my sake Act. 24 13. After the way which they call Heresy so Worship I the God of my Fathers 1 Thess. 5 21. Prove all things hold fast that which is good Printed in the Year 1670. The Preface To the READER READER FOR thy better understanding the matters handled in this treatise I thought fit to premise somewhat by way of Preface and indeed the nature of the thing calleth for it that thou mayest receive a true information concerning the People here pleaded for and so generally opposed but more particularly in the City of Aberdeen that thou mayest understand how the case stands betwixt them and their adversaries in it Know then that after the Lord had raised up the witnesses of this day and had opened in them and unto them the Light and Glory thereof diverse of them at sundry times were moved of the Lord to come into these parts unto the towne of Aberdeen in love to the seed which there was to be gathered but their acceptance for divers ye â—res together was very unsutable For the enemy that had wrought and was exalted in the mystery of inquity to daeken the appearance of this day had prepared and stirred up his Ministers to resist them and their testimony by aspersing them with many grosse Calumnies lyes and reproaches as demâ—nâ—ed distracted bodily possessed of the devill practising abominations under Colour of being led to them by the Spirit and as to their Principles blasphemous denyers of the true Christ of Heaven Hell Angells the Resurrection of the body and day of judgment inconsistant with Magistracy nothing better then John of Leyden and his complices This was the vulgar and familiar language of the pulpits which was for a time received for unquestionable truth till about the yeare 1663. some sober and serious Professors in and about the said Towne did begin to weigh these things more narrowly and find the savour of that life in the testimony of that so much reproached people which some yeares before had stirred in others who were now come to a great losse and decay and this gave them occasion to examine the Principles and wayes of that People more exactly which proving upon inquiry to be far otherwayes then they had been represented gave them a further occasion to see the integrity and soundnesse of that despised People and of their Principles on the one hand and on the other to see the prejudic'd disingenuity and enmity of their accusers In these the Lord caused his word to prosper who were few in number yet noted as to their sobriety in their former way of profession and raised them up to own that People and their testimony and to become one with them now their adversarys finding nothing in these whom the Lord had raised up in these parts whereof to accuse them as to their conversation these Calumnies must bee cast upon strangers living some hundred miles distant where these untruths cannot be so easily disproved but as to these at home the tune must be turned therefor George Meldrum who hath more particulary espoused the quarrel against truth and its followers then any of his Brethren begins to say that it is no wonder to see Quakers forbeare grosse outbreakings for that Hereticks have formerly come as great a length but surely abstinence from grosse outbreakings and a cleane outward conversation is no good Argument against the Quakers so now the clamour is though they have been Professors and that noted ones too and though they be honest in their conversation yet they are deluded and deceived and are deceivers And thus as of old the truth and the witnesses of it have alwayes been reproached by those of the Pharisaical Spirit So now for sometimes they said Christ had a Devill sometimes the Apostles are drunck and other times mad Since these things have thus occurred there hath been no little industry used to suppresse this People by threatnings and persecution on which account divers of our Friends have been cast into Prison and some detained long in of the said towne and also by preaching and writing of which for thy information receive this account There were 30. Queries sent by the Bishop of Aberdeen so called to Alexander Jaffray Also about the same time a paper of 3. or 4. sheets subscribed by G. M. intituled The state of the controversy betwixt the Protestants and the Quakers The 30 Querys were not long after answered by G. K. in respect of A. J. his sicknesse at that time and returned to him from A. J. and sometime afterwards George Meldrum his paper called The state of the controversy c. was answered by G. K. to which papers of G. K. somewhat was premised by A. J. which papers being severall times called for but particularly in a letter from G. M. his own hand to A. J. wherein he intreats for an answer that hee might know as hee said in what things wee did differ or in what things wee onely seemed to differ were sent to him within 9. monthes after the receit of G. M. his papers Before all which a sermon on Purpose was preached by G. M. against the quakers in the ninth month 1666. wherein the summe of both his papers was asserted onely that it was digested in a Pulpit-way and introduced with an insinuating discourse of his pretended kindnesse for the persons of some Quakers and his unwillingnesse to medle with them were it not his office and zeale for the truth did ingage him to it but if it had been so indeed hee would have said no more of them then the truth whereas it is stuffed with lyes which are positively asserted to be the Quakers principles by this pretended Preacher of the Gospel from his chaire of verity so called or rather of falsehood whereas yet G. M. his Papers afore-mentioned were not so much as sent far lesse answered by which according to the words of his owne letter above mentioned he was to receive an understanding of the diffeâ—ences and yet before he received this understanding whilst he was
For notwithstanding the words of the Quaker are of thy owne framing and that they lye patent before thee yet thou hast not had so much honesty in thy answer as to subsume them aright The Quaker sayes I use not flattering titles and give thee not heathenish salutations and bowings least I should sin and be found an Idolater in answer to which thou beginnest with a false subsumption saying thou wonderest that he should call salutations and bowings heathenish and Idolatrous Indeed it is no strange thing that thou and others misrepresent us and belye us in repeating our words at a distance when in this manner of writing thou canst not truly repeat those words which thou placest for ours when they be just written before thee Is it not one thing to say that Salutations that are heathenish or heathenish salutations cannot be used without sin and idolatrie and another thing to say that salutations and bowings are heathenish and idolatrous Who is so blind as not to see here a vast difference As to the first who dares deny it to be a truth that vvill offer to call himselfe a Christian to vvit that salutations and bovvings that are heathenish cannot be used vvithout idolatrie and sin But as to the other that Salutations and bovvings are heathenish and idolatrous being taken in generall vvas never said nor judged by the Quakers and therefore to charge them vvith it is utterly false and a lye for such salutations as Christ commands and the Apostles practised the Quakers dearly ovvne and frequently use and find in them great refreshment becaus there through the life flovves and is communicated from one vessell to another but such salutations thou art ignorant of and of the life that is there through communicated vvhich bears testimonie against all that is heathenish and idolatrous and leads out of it and therefore in thy dark mind vvouldst from thence plead for the customary salutations of the heathen as appears by the proofs thou bringest vvherein thy folly is very much manifested Christ sayest thou commanded his disciples vvhen they entred into a house to salute it hee did so and what more And if the house be vvorthy their peace shall be upon it to vvit the peace through the salutation intimated or offered becaus they brought to that house the tender of the Gospell and glad tydings vvhich vvas a good salutation but vvhat vvouldst thou inferr from that that vve ought to doe of our hats one to another a thing vvhich they never did by vvhose example thou vvouldst presse us to doe it and it is knowne that it is a thing unusuall in that part of the world to this day That other proof alledged from Paul saluting the Churches makes as litle if not far lesse to the purpose Paul in his Epistles who was at a great distance vvisheth grace and peace to the Churches from God the Father and the Lord Iesus Christ Ergo wee ought to take of our hats Can there be any thing more ridiculous is this the great esteeme yee put upon the scriptures to take the salutations of the blessed Apostle Paul signified by the motions of the Holy Spirit vvhich vvas the very blessing of Paul to the Churches or rather of the Spirit through him for to prove your doing off hats one of the corrupt customs of this vvorld Is not this to make a mock of the Scripturs and a stretching them to plead for that against vvhich is the naturall tendencie of their testimonie Next thou givest us Abrahams practise but every practise of Abraham is not a rule to us nor to you either the like may be said of that of Moses Though Moses did obeisance to his father in law that makes nothing against us far lesse his kissing of him and asking him of his vvelfare both vvhich things the Quakers deny not Thou acknovv ledgest that religious vvorship given to the Creature is idolatrie What is Religious Worship but that vvhich is given to God and is not the bovving of the body and uncovering of the head the signification of your Worship to God And if yee give the same to the Creature also where is the difference for in the external signification it is not distinguished unles it be said to be the intention which if it be wee shall have the Papists pleading the same for their adoration of images and the relicts of the saints And truly your being found in these things gives them advantage in that matter That courtesie and Christianity are not repugnant vvee deny not and therefore for Christians to be Courteous one to another is very fit vvhich indeed that the Apostle commands wee acknowledge But that Courtesie consists in taking off hats and bovving to one another that rests for thee to prove In the next place to prove the indifference of using the plurall number instead of the singular to one person thou sayest thou art very confident the Kingdome of God consists not in vvords so am I too yet I strange thou shouldst say so considering thy principles for vvhat is all your preaching but words yea vvhat is the Scripture it selfe I meane that vvhich yee have of it to vvit the letter but words And seing the very Gospell according to you is but a company of words being a declaration of vvhat past many hundred years agoe hovv has thy zeale here to oppose the Quakers made thee forget thy selfe in this matter Thou sayest that to vvhich the singular number is agreeable the plurall may be applyed to without making a lye The proofs alleged for that be Matth. 23. 37. Luk. 22. 31. 3 Epistle of Iohn vers 13 evince nothing in this matter for the Contexts being rightly considered vvill clearly make out that the vvords are not applyed to one single person only exclusively of others and that of Luke is to a flock comprehending the disciples to vvhom hee vvas speaking just before but there is no confounding of the number vvhere one single person is only spoken to and that vvithout understanding of any more And though indeed it vvere good that the difference vvere not greater yet the differences in these things evidence that there be differences in greater matters And in respect that yee are estranged from the principle that leads out of corruption in all things therefor yee cannot see the vveight that is in these things vvhich is more then yee are avvare of Pag. 3. Thou seemâ—t to take great advantage of these words Heretofore I walked according to my light and the same I doe still and while in the integritie of my heart I walked in the way thou art now in I dare not say but God countenanced me in it Here thou makest a great stirr as if thou hadst brought the Quaker to a great Dilemma But to passe by thy examining of the weak objection which thou makest in the Quakers behalfe which I beleive was never alledged by any of them unto thee as that wherwith they either only or cheifly defend
themseves in this matter To wit Salomons sacrificing at gibion As in many other particulars so in this thou statest the Quakers part but too weakely and faintly yea disingenuously for the light which wee walk according unto and desire to walk according to it for ever is the light of Christ in us and not our light otherwise then by the free gift of God which wee doe freely acknowledge did shine in our hearts in some measure in the tyme wee walked with you though wee did not so know it and gave us some knowledge and discerning of things and begot a measure of integrity and honesty of heart towards the Lord in divers of us and turned the bent of our hearts truly towards him in measure And the Lord countenanced and visited and sometims refreshed us secretly in these dayes with a regard to that measure of integrity he found in us and not becaus of or in respect unto that way of Profession wee then walked in which way was truly a hurt unto us and not advantage and it was not your way which wee walked in with you that the Lord countenanced but the integrity and uprightnes which hee had begot in us and had placed in us as a tender plant and as a root in dry ground under the oppression of your way which burdened it and untill wee were brought out of your way by his arme which drew us his seed and plant in us suffered and was oppressed as a cart with sheafes but after wee were delivered from yout way and turned to the way wee now walk in the seed and plant which suffered came to receive strength and be raised unto life and Dominion as many are witnesses at this day Nor is this thy argument any other but that which which the papists did throw against those who sometymes walked with them in the popish vvay of profession some hundred years agoe vvhen they came out from among them vvhom the Lord visited vvhile they vvere among them and at tymes refreshed them till he brought them forth to vvitnes against them for the Lord hath a people in Babylon and hath his sheep vvhich are scattered on the dry and barren mountains of many sorts and wayes of professions vvho have some tender breathings and desires after him and vvith a regard to his breathing seed in them hee visits them and refresheth them at tymes vvhich yet proves not that they should remaine vvhere they are in Babylon and upon the dry mountains of dead professions and observations For the Call of the Lord is unto them to come out of Babylon and his arme is stretched forth to gather them off from all these hills unto his owne holy hill Mount Zion that they may feed and lye downe with them who were as sheep going astray but are now returned unto the shepherd bishop of their soules Also may not those of the Episcopall forme object the same against those who have left it upon a further discovery and yet its like thou will not deny but some who have beene under the episcopall forme had a measure of integrity to God while under it and with a regard to that the Lord at tym's refreshed them God does not frequently discover his will to his Children all at once nor lead them throughly out of things out of which they are to come in an instant and yet that hee countananceth them in there travel cannot be denied did not the Lord countenance Cornelius before Peter came unto him As appears by Acts 10. 4. And yet this was no argument that Cornelius should not owne the Apostles and Christians and did not the Lord countenance the disciples though even when they wer following him they were ignorant of many things and in some things wrong and whither did not the Lord countenance Luther in his testimony against the Pope as well in the first as in the last steps of it although it appears that when hee first began to preach against indulgences hee intended not such a thing as afterwadrs followed but things opened more and more unto him till they came unto that period they were brought unto befor his death and who of you will say that God did not countenance him from the beginning whilest he held many things which hee himselfe came to see to be wrong and erred very grossly in the matter of Consubstantiation The like may be said of Iohn Husse and others whom you acknovvledge to have beene Martyrs at last thou endest it vvith a question asking vvhither it be safe to leane to the audience of that light vvhich one vvhile sayeth that such a vvay is the vvay of Christ and another vvhile thou must come out of it for it is the vvay of Antichrist To vvhich vvhat is above mentioned ansvvers sufficiently yet further I may easily retort the Question thus upon the most of all the nationall Ministry in Scotland vvho are novv licking up that vvhich they heretofore cryed out against as Antichristian and vvith fire and svvord persecuted those vvho offered to plead for that vvhich novv they both practise and avovv themselfs in Novv as the fault of this cannot be ascribed to the scripturs which is the rule whereby they pretend to be guided so neither can any mans instability that pretends to be guided by the light if any such thing could be showne prove the light a guide not to be followed To prove that Christ is not in all men thou arguest thus Christ is not in all men becaus the Scripture speaks of a being without Christ in the world to which thou addest the Reason the unconverted must needs be without Christ becaus they want the uniting principle vvhich is faith to ansvver that Christ is in them but not in union vvith them thou sayest is a fond distinction becaus the Scripturs vvay of expressing peoples union vvith Christ is by asserting Christ to be in them vvhich thou takest for granted and from thence dravvest thy conclusion but if it be found to be false then the vvhole fabrick Falls to the ground as indeed fals it is For even according to the Scriptures the in being of Christ in men sometimes signifies union and sometimes his existence in them vvorking and operating in them by vvay of reprâ—â—fe and judgment as also by vvay of call and invitation to prepare for union vvith him As appears by the very first Scripture cited by thee Iohn 15. 4. 5. vvhich ansvvers not thy mind For vvee say not that vvhere there is no union fruit can be brought forth unto God but mark the last part of it hovv much it makes against thee vvithout me sayes Christ yee can doe nothing For how becoms an unconverted man a convert but by having Christ to vvork vvith him vvhere does Christ cooperate Does hee not there vvhere the vvork of Conversion is wrought and is not that within So that Christ must needs be in men before they be in union with him whereby the faith may be wrought
by which they are united to him and as to that other Scripture 1. John 3. 24. these and other Scriptures which might be cited hold forth that in being of Christ which is by union but say nothing against his in being in them where the union is not for he is in them who knovv him not and are Darkness Ioh. 1. ver 10. and 5. and he was crucified in the Corinthians and Galathians which was in the tyme of their unbeliefe 1. Corint 2. ver 2. and Galat. 3. ver 1. for the words in the greek are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. In you and indeed there can be no greater absurdity them to say that Christ is in no man but in them with whom hee is united for Christ is not separated from that light and seed which is of him that is in every man but is united with it which bears testimony against all iniquitie but many tyms men are far from being in union with that in them which witnesseth against all sin as experience sufficiently teacheth Then if that be in them which is pure and if Christ be in that pure theâ— Christ is in them and if they be not united with that which is pure in them then are they not united with Christ which is in the pure that is in them It seems strange to thee that Christ should be in the heathen and they not know him Was it not as strange that hee should be among the Jewes who had tho letter that did bear a testimony of him they not know him 8. that notwithstanding his miracles and other proofs hee gave of himselfe they should so far mistake him to judge him to be an impostor blasphemer Thou sayest is Christ so uâ—couth to them hee dwalls in as not to reveâ—l himselfe unto them but though wee say that Christ is in all men wee doe not say hee dwelleth in all men for dwelling signifieth more then in being and yet I say hee does reveale himselfe in some measure unto all in whom he bears witnes against iniquitie for the revelation of Christ unto one is not alwayes by giving the knowledge of what past externally but is a revelation of the righteous judgement against the transgressour in them which to say that the heathen wanted is false and contrary to scripture Rom. 1. 18. 19. 20. Ioh. 3. 18. 19. 20. yea and contrary to the very acknowledgement of Americans who have confessed that there was that in them which judged and reproved evill Whither or not their ignorance of the outvvard transaction derogats any thing from their capacity of salvation coms here after in its place to be examined together vvith that other saying of thine vvherein thou shevvest the like disingenuity viz. that the saying that every man hath sufficient light to lead him to life and salvation tends to put Christians in the same condition vvith Pagans becaus sayâ—st thou Christians have no more and the preaching of the Gospell and the benefitt of the scripturs are little to be regarded for vvithout them men have sufficient light to lead them to thâ— things of God for the saying that men have sufficient Light hath no such tendency for hee that is truâ—y and realâ—y a Christian and not nominally only is one that is united to Christ and bâ—lâ—ives in him now it is one thing to have the Light and another to beleive in it which is clearly made out by that scripture whâ—le yâ—e have the Light beleive in the Light 〈…〉 may become the children of it And that it is a great advantage to have the knowledge of the scripture as outvvardly vvee deâ—y not forth reaching aâ—d raising of thâ— feed in them that are a far off and also for the comforting and refreshing of them in vvhom it is raised as the scriptures are used in that Spirit vvhich gave them forth Therefore vvee labour travel so much for that end and are found using the Scriptures testimony If it be said that therein vvee contradict our principle seing it is possible that people may be saved vvith out the scriptures I ansvver Iay. For many things are profitable vvhich are not of absolute necessity you your selves acknovvledge that other bookâ— besides the scriptures are not of absolute necessity unto mens salvation and yet you judge not all other books useles yea yee to much relye upon books Also you doe not say that it is impossible that any can be saved vvithout preaching upon the scripturs and yet you reckon not preaching to be in vaine But doe yee not rather contradict your principles who say that the number of all those who ever can be saved is so definite from all eternitie and that without respect to their faithfulnes or diligence in the using of the means in the foreknowledge of God that none of them can misse of Salvation and yet keep such a stirre about preaching and ordinances for you deny that God hath decreed men unto savation whom in his foreknowledge hee did foresee would be faithful and diligent in the use of the means Pag. 7. Thou sayest all men have not saving and sufficient light in them becaus the Scripture saith that some men are brutish in their knowledge â—erem 10. 19. But why didst not thou cite these words For the pastors are become brutish and have not sought the Lord therfor they shall not prosper Wee see the proofe of this at this day but from thence how makest thou it appear that some men want Saving light the pastors are now as brutish as they wer then and it is becaus they turne their backs upon that light and will not follow it therfor wee have the more need to bear testimony unto it and against their brutishnes who reject and despise it Next thou citest Rom. 3. 11. There is none that understandeth But will that inferre that there is not any saving light in them Why understand they not but becaus they are not turned to the light that can give them understanding It is supposed sayest thou that the light in some may be darknes So it may indeed to wit that light that is gathered from the carnal and earthly wisdome which is from below where it takes the letter of the Scripturs and ads thereunto its commentaries and consequences setting up this in them as their only light wee find that light proves but darknes but that will not inferre that the true light which coms from Christ is or can be darknes unles in that sence as the day of the Lord is called darknes in Scripture for even the true light unto them who reject it is as darknes in that it gives them not that comfort and joy which it giveth unto them who love it and owne it but troubleth and affrighteth them as the night and the darknes So that these Scriptures stand in good unity with the Principle of all mens having saving light in them Next thou objectest that having of saâ—ing light and grace presupposes Conversion But
voluntary poverty for any one that hath the least knowledge in true mortification may know that wher a mans meat and provision is laid up for him and that there is no care of these things lying upon the mind but a full liberty to live in idlenes which is the Monks case it is an easie thing in selfe-vvill to take on a demure deportement or to wear haircloath or goe barefoot vvhich by custome becoms familiar And truly many of the Commons in Scotland are used to greater hardships then all that and yet are far from having the appearance of Christianity But the matter is for people to be conversant in this VVorld to have their occasions and businesse in it and to have dealing vvith the Spirit of it and yet to keep to the meek lowly simple appearance using it as if they vvere not using it by keeping out of its Spirit and VVay in all manner of Conversation This is to be like unto Christ vvho did not retire himselfe unto a Hermits lodge but conversed among Publicans and sinners Novv let your flocks and the Quakers be compared together in this particular and let the light in all consciences judge vvho are likest to Christ. Secondly to evidence that some different from us have had as much inward feeling thou sayest thou canst tell us of some who have had so much of the feare and dread of God upon their hearts that they durst not adventure upon sin by this thou seemest to grant that there are invvard feelings and enjoyments among the Quakers saying what good is it that you truely feell that persons different from you have not felt And hovv doeth this consist vvith your judging the Quakers fallen into Apostacy and delusion of the devill And that they are possessed vvith the divell can such have invvard feelings and enjoyments of God for my part I am glad to hear that any such have beene vvho have had so much of the fear and dread of God upon their hearts that they durst not adventure upon sin and I should be glad and so I knovv vvould any of the Quakers be glad to meete vvith them But novv such vvho have so much of the fear of God upon their hearts that they durst not adventure upon sin vvold they not love to be perfect vvould they dispute against perfection and conclude it impossible vvould such vvho dare not sin for a vvorld sin every day yea every moment as you say yee doe if they dare not sin vvould they not refrainse from sin and cease from it and vvould they make use of that poor evasion vvhich thou addest that therefore they vvould not vvillingly sin for a vvorld As long as the dread and fear of God remains and stands over the heart sin is shut out and the minds vvill is to fear God and not to Sin Thou canst tell us of others thou sayest who many years lived in the sweet sence of Gods favour and have gone most triumphantly out of the world with strong perswasions of their eternal vvel-being But vvould such have pleaded for continuance in sin Doeth not continuance in sin ecclipse and take avvay the sence of Gods favour and further would such have denyed fellowship with God by immediate revelation as you doe Would they have denyed the immediate teachings of the Spirit as you doe doe not some novv living remember some of them vvho had these feelings and did bear an expresse testimony to the immediate teachings of the Spirit and immediat fellowship vvith God and plainly declared that no preaching was profitable but that vvhich came immediatly from the Spirit and found fault vvith the Ministers that they preached from their study and their books and vvished them to put avvay or burne their books for that they vvere a hurt to them and some of those savv over and beyond and unto the end oâ— your so called ordinance of outvvard bread wine said plainly it vvas but a shaddovv or figure that those vvho vvitnessed the substance had no need of the other though those and some others vvho vvitnessed such invvard feelings and enjoyments of God vver not called Quakers nor had their understandings so clearly opened as to many things as the people called Quakers have yet vvith the same life in some measure they have beene acquainted vvhich is the Quakers way even Iesus Christ who is the way the truth and the life and so as to those examples thou givest which vvas vvitnessed thou sayest some tvventie yeers agoe Wee deny not but that the Lord did appear and vvas near the simple hearted in that day and some vvho are novv among the Quakers remember that day and have a share in those feellings and enjoyments vvhich are novv and in the experience and enjoyment of them can bear a true testimony that the feellings and enjoyments of this day unto those vvho follovv the Lord in his leadings â—â—oe far exceed vvhat vvas in that day and novv the sun is set upon that day for the Lord is calling his people further and those among us vvho had those former feelings can vvitnesse that vvhile they vvould have bâ—ene tasting of that svveetnes and remained still vvith you the Lord vvould not but suffered drynes and barrennesse to come over them and that which sometime had been as a fruitful field to become a barren vvildernesse till they savv that they vvere not to limit him to invented forms but were to forsake those things in his will in which through his indulgence and compassion hee had sometimes appeared unto them and to be found follovving the footsteps of the flock vvhom hee is leading on to a further state in which they find the Lord appearing more gloriously then ever to their refreshment Glory to him for evermore But with you it is otherwise for who among you witnesse these things at this day Yea some of you are so ingenuous as to confesse that yee find not these things now and that this is a cloudy and gloomy day and it shall certainly so continue unto you until yee come and walk with us in the Light of the Lord But becaus yee will not but will confine the Lord in these forms whereunto yee have devoted your selvs therefore is darknes over you and your Prayers are become dry and barren and full of complaints of an absent God And what invvard joy from God any have felt among you we cannot impute it to your way more then what some have felt of refreshment in some other professions and forms can be imputed to their way Pag. 30. Thou sayest It is knowne that wee are enemies to singing of Psalms Baptisme and the Lords Supper and becaus wee say that wee are not against these things therfore thou callest us disingenuous or such as seek to delude People which challenge is false and a calumnie for wee doe indeed owne these things in the true acceptation and meaning of them and in the substance and reality and if wee
day becaus hee rose on it Is not this a faire inlet to all the Popish holy Dayes If yee keep one day for his Resurrection why not one day for his Conception another for his Birth another for the Annunciation of the Ange another for his being crucified another for his Ascension then wee shall not want holy dayes in good store Fifthly thou sayest who oppose the Sabbath day sin against mercy and equity and Iustice. Answ. It is granted bnt who oppose your day which yee have made or imagined to be the Sabbath doe not sin against any of the fore-said if in other things they keep unto the rule of mercy and justice First they sin not against mercy if through all the dayes of the week they be found in that which is for the good of themselves and their neighbours Not laying too heavie burdens upon their owne soules by excessive care and labour in outward things nor yet forcing their bodily strength beyond the rule of mercy and love nor imposing any things upon either servants or cattell contrary to mercy For if the Law required mercy even in these things much more the Gospell so that wee grant times of rest are to be given unto Servants and Beasts and Mercy is to be shewed unto them more then under the Law And thus is the end of the Sabbath answered which was made for man yea this is indeed to keep the Sabbath To undoe every burden and to let the oppressed goe free both as to the inward and the outward And the Lords People have frequent times more then once a week wherein laying aside their outward affairs for a season they may and doe meet together to wait upon the Lord and be quickned and refreshed and instructed by him and worship him in his Spirit And may be useful unto one another in exhortation or admonition or any other way as the Lord shall furnish And such who find any distemper upon their minds through letting them goe forth too much upon outward things may find the Lord allowing them any other day or time no lesse then that to gett their hearts reduced into a right frame And it were sad if the Lord had only allowed but one day of seven unto this effect The Lord inviteth and alloweth the weary and distempered who love to be cured of their â—â—â—â—empers to come unto him every day And as for those who abide not in a due care every day to have their hearts ordered arights but let their minds goe forth excessively in outward occasions all the week they provoke the Lord to shut them out from accesse to him upon the First day And our soules doe oft blesse the Lord in allowing us many times of refreshment and strengthning to the establishing and confirming us in his love and life and disburdening our minds of earthly things much more frequently then in one day of seven And as for sinning against Justice they cannot be charged with it who give up unto the Lord not onely one day of seven but all the seven even all the dayes of their life unto his service for equity and Jâ—stide calleth upon us to spend all the seven in his service that our hearts may continually be exercised in his fear and love and what ever wee doe wee may doe it to him and in him And as for the first day of the week we meet together even on that day as wee doe on other dayes according to the practise of the primitive Christians to wait upon the Lord and worship him but to plead so obstinately as yee doe that the fourth Commandement bindeth to a particular observation of that day and yet to be found so slack in the observation of it as you generally are is such an inconstancie as the Quakers cannot owne And so whereas thou wouldst confine the Lord his giving rest and comfort to the souls of his people and the falling of the Manna to the first dayes calling them spirituall market dayes as if there were no other wee cannot owne it knowing that the Lord giveth rest and comfort every day and causeth the Manna plentifully to fall every day to those that walk in his fear and wait upon him and hee has no such circumscribed Market day as thou dreamest of but that yee I meane the Priests make a Market day of that day So that yee may call it your day as thou sayest Pag. 44. our day wee know wherein you sell and vend your Babylonish commodities and will be forceing and compelling all to come and buy of them or if nor to send you mony whither they receive ought or not or else yee will endevour by the help of the Magistrate to have them punished So that it is made manifest that it is only the inventions of men that wee disovvne and not any of the ordinances of Iesus Christ. Pag. 46. Thou grantest the vvord Originall sin is not found in Scripture and yet thou pleadst for it â—ecaus sayest thou the thing intended by it is contained and expressed in Scripture Ansvv. vvee deny that the thing by you intended is exprest in Scripture to vvit that all inâ—aâ—â—s are sinners before God only for Adams sin and that there are reprobate Infants vvho are sent to hell only for Adams first sine this vvee deny nor doe the Scriptures cited by thee prove it Psal. 51. behold I was conceived in sin But first if this place should prove the Infant guilty of any sin it should be of the sin of its ovvne immediat parents in inquity did my mother bring me forth Novv you say the infant is not guilty of the sin of its ovvne immediate parents but only of Adams and Eva's first sin of vvhich this Scripture speakes nothing 2. it doeth not say I vvas conceived and brought forth a sinner as you vvould have it vvhy make you infants guilty of Adams sin and not of the sins of then immediate parents Novv it is granted that there is a seed of sin derived unto Adams posterity but wee say none become guilty of sin before God until they close with this evil seed and in them who close with it it becoms an origine or â—oâ—intaine of evil thoughts desâ—res words and actions which are their sins vvho close vvith it But that the guilt of Adams first sin lyes at the door of Infants who never actually sinned vvee deny For a Second Proofe thou citest Rom. 5. 12. Alleadging it should be rendred that in Adam all sinned But it is no such matter For the words however they be truly translated can never be so rendred in Adam all sinned The strictest translation of the words is thus upon which all have sinned or in which all have sinned Now if the words be translated Vpon which all have sinned They hold forth hovv that Adam by his sin gave an entrance to Sin in the World and Death by Sin and so upon this occasion all others have sinned to wit actually in their ovvne Persons so