you but the opinions of the Doctors Wherfore I would gladly Eusebius that you would follow that matter and I desire that thou wouldest proue by the holy Scriptures that which thou affirmest of the yoūg children dead without circumcision baptisme Eusebius Doest thou thinke that I speake without the Scripture the which I wil not yet alledge with my gloses and expositions But for to giue more weight and credite vnto my probations I would thou shouldest beare the witnesse of them by the mouth of the auncient Doctors namely of the worshipful Beda speaking after this manner Hée which now cryeth terribly healthfully by his Gopell except a man be borne of water the holy spirite he cannot enter into the kingdome of god The very same he cryed by his lawe the soule of him whose foreskinne of his flesh is not circumcifed shal perish from his people bicause he hath broken my testament Beholde a cléere probation as wel for the children of the Iewes as for those of the Christians Theophilus How vnderstandest thou that threatning against those which were not circumcised For God hath prefired eight dayes for to circumcise the young children Nowe if they doe dye before the eight day and the terme prescribed of God doest thou thinke that the saluation of those children be in daunger Eusebius The word of God excepteth neither little nor great but speaketh generally to all men Theophilus But there could haue bene no fault but in the transgressiō of the cōmaundement of god Sith then that God had determined for them the viij day wherefore ought the young children to perish which died before that terme For sith that God had lymitted the day I doubte not but that those who should haue circumcised them before the day prefired should do contrary vnto the cōmaundement of God. Eusebius I accorde vnto thée therein in those which should haue done that without necessitie and without the daunger of the death of the young childe But I beléeue that when there should haue bene any daunger they might circumeise them before that terme Theophilus And I beléeue the contrary For I can proue my reason by the Scripture the which thou canst not doo thine If it were so then as y sayst it should follow y god was not well aduised when he made that ordinaunce and that the Isralites shoulde be wiser by right and that hée should doe great wrong vnto them sith that he hath not aduertised them of that doing and that he gaue none exception It followeth in lyke manner if the circumcision had bene so necessary vnto saluation that all the woemen children and woemen should perish fith that they dyed all without circumcision the which yet neuerthelesse no man dareth to affirme sith that there hath bene so many holy women of whom the holy Scripture beareth vs witnes Eusebius It is easie to reproue thy consequence For in the institution of the circumcision it is spoken expressely of the males not of the females Theophilus The law yet neuerthelesse sayth euery soule euery person Wherefore if we must take the wordes by rigor without a fitte interpretation wée must comprehend the females if there had bene none other places which doe giue vnto vs the intelligence vnderstanding of the lawe besides that the institution of the same doth sufficiently declare that it extendeth not vnto the women Thē if the womē be exempt bicause that the lawe bindeth them not so are the Infants which dye before the eight day For they are not bound by the law before the terme or otherwise God would not haue held his peace sooner then of ther thinges which were not of so great importance But when the eight day was come I doubt not that if thorow contempning negligence and dispising the circumcision had bene omitted but y the Lord would haue bene greatlye offended not by reason of the signe but thorowe the rebellion and dispisinge of his woorde the which hee taketh in greate displeasure as he hath shewed the example of him that gathered sticks on the sabboth day It seemed that y fault was not great nor such as though he had committed a murther And yet neuertheles god punished him with a cruel death as though he had cōmitted the greatest crime in the world It is then an other thing to haue omitted any ceremony cōmanded of God thorow negligence dispising rebellion or to haue left it vndone thorow necessitie or bicause that it was not possible For when there is let such that man cannot auoyde it and that this minde and will was good and hath trauayled as much as hée can for to execute it I doe not beléene that god imputeth the fault vnto him vnto whom hée was not bounde For the saluation of men consisteth in the alliaunce which the Lord hath made with vs by the which doth the small and greate are receiued and ioyned together in the company and fellowshippe of the people of god We doe not denye but that that alliaunce is signed and sealed by the sacramēts and that the baptisme is but the signe and seals among the Christians as the circumcision was amonge the Iewes But it followeth not therefore that it is firme and certeine inough without that signe and seale Wherfore there is no doubt but that those which do shut vp the kingdome of heauen vnto the infants for want and lack of the signe do vnto them great wrong and do béely the promises of God which by them haue pronounced them to be his before y they were borne saying that he is our God and the God of our children And therfore those which do make that outward baptisme so necessary vnto saluation what other thing do they make of it but a witchcraft and Magical enchauntments attributing vnto the material corruptible elements that which apperteineth vnto the only vertue of God wherto serueth it Wherefore we may wel know the error and ignorance of the scholastical doctors which haue iudged that baptisme necessary vnto saluation For which cause they haue also permitted and establyshed that the woemen might and ought to baptise in tyme of necessitie But the auncient Patriarches an holy Prophetes were not in that superstition and were not ignoraunt of the vertue and efficacie of gods promise and allyaunce nor of the reasons by mée alledged or otherwise the Israelites should haue greatly fayled and chiefely Moses which was the Prophet and conductor of the people of God to haue dwelled at the least the space of fourty yeres sithens the departing from Aegypt vntil the entring into the land of Chanaan without circumcising y children Yet it is to be beléeued that during that time many dyed without being circumcysed and although none had dyed did it not séeme rightly that Moses and all the other Israelites did against the ordinance of god sith that they executed it not at the day appointed Thomas Is it true that they haue abode so long
by those words that the body of man and all that which is in the fleshe and the vices therein is giuen for meate to the Serpent whom they do call Azazell lord of the fleshe and the bloud and Prince of that world saying that he is also called in Leuiticus the Prince of the deserts Sith then that our body is created and made of the slime and dust of the earth and that the earth is giuen for meat vnto the serpent they conclude thereby that our bodies are subiect vnto him and in his power vntill such time as they be sanctified and that the earthly fleshe bee transformed and changed into a spirituall nature And therfore say they that that body hath neede both in his buriall whilest that he is in this earth to be purified sanctified through prayers sacrifices encensements exorcismes coniurations and other ceremonies fit for the same Theophilus Durand in that booke wherein he yeldeth the reason of all the popish ceremonies speaking of the office and burying of the dead allegeth the same reasons and almost nothing differeth from the Iewes and Cabalistes Wherein we may well know that the supersticious christians followe more the Iewish and Cabalisticall doctrine then the Christian and Apostolicall doctrine For Durand himselfe is compelled to confesse that the bodies of the dead are encensed and sprinkled with holy water not to that end that they are purged and deliuered from their sinnes which could not then by such things be defaced put out But to the ende that the wicked spirites and theyr presence should be dryuen away And therefore saith hée that in some places they do put of the the holy water into the tombe or graue with the fire and encense and that the holy water is put there to the eâ—de that the diuell shoulde not come neere for he doth feare it very much Hillarius It hath bene well declared and proued by Fryer Gyles that holy Cordelier vnto whom the diuel appeared so terrible that he could not speake for feare And as the diuell came vppon him and greeued him muche Fryer Giles could not arise but did creepe as well as hee coulde vnto a vessell wherein was holy water wherewith hee sprinkled himselfe and was incontinently deliuered from that feare that the diuell did vnto him Theophilus Behold a good proofe the holy water hath then more vertue and power then Iesus Christe and the faith in him or els that Fryer Gyles had no faith which is the buckler and shield wherewith the Apostle teacheth vs to resist the diuell I do muche meruaile where God hathe commauÌ„ded to driue away the diuell by water and when the true seruants of God haue vsed such weapons aginste the diuell Hillarius At the leastwise they must prouide for him a boate if they would driue him awaye by water Theophilus When the witnes of the scripture faileth it must néedes be that those maisters of ceremonies haue then recourse vnto fables But for to returne againe vnto the reasons of Durand he addeth moreouer that in what soeuer place the christians shal be buried out of the churchyarde they ought to set alwayes a crosse at his head For the diuell doth feare very much that signe dareth not to come nigh the place where he seeth the crosse Hillarius That is bicause that the earth which is out of the church yard is not coniured Wherby it hath not so much vertue And therfore in recoÌ„pence they do ad y crosse for to driue away the diuell Theophilus For y same cause do they also coniure y earth of y churchyard For as they do witnes affirme the diuels haue vsed to get theÌ„ vnto the dead bodies and to exercise their cruelty and vengeaunce against them and inforce themselues to do vnto them at the least wise after that they are dead that whiche they could not do whilest they were aliue Furthermore they say that at the day of iudgement our Lorde Iesus Christe will say vnto them that present themselues vnto him that whiche be aunswered vnto the disciples of the Herodians and Pharises when they asked of him the question of the tribute and that they had shewed vnto him the money and Image of Cesar Euen so will he say vnto those whose is this Image what money is this Then those which shal be marked with the crosse shal be knowen to bee good christian money And Iesus Christ will say that whiche is Cesars that is to say vnto the diuell giue it him that which is vnto God giue it to God. Hillarius I am abashed if the diuell dares carrye away those which haue made vppon them the signe of the materiall crosse especially the priestes and moonks whiche are all hyd and couered with them Are not these goodly reasons and most worthy of such diuines Eusebius Yea those are Godly reasons what will you say to the contrary do ye thinke that soe manye wise men which haue bene in the churche haue not well considered the causes wherefore they ought to do that And that it hath not ben ordeyned without good iust reason Theophilus Thou hast heard them and thou hast also the Iewes Cabalists and Panyms for to be the firste authors of them But those dreames are yet more tollerable and worhty of pardon then those here bycause that hauing the braine full of false opinions and inchauntments they feare least the enchauntors Magitians and especially the coniurers and the diuell with them should abuse their bodies thorow their enchauÌ„tments necromances witchcraft But what excuse or coloure can the christians haue who ought to be assured of their saluation in Iesus Christ as wel for the body as for the soule vsing such ceremonies which I may truly call charmes inchauntements magicall supersticions and purifications and not euangelical For although that the earth hath bene giuen for meate to the serpent and that our bodies are taken of the earth how will God permit and suffer that that olde serpent shall defile those bodyes whiche haue bene the Temple habit ation of his holy ghost And whiche haue bene consecrated vnto him thorow the bloud of his sonne Iesus Christ and sanctified thorow his spirite haue the water and the earth which are bewitched and charmed after the manner as the enchaunters charmers do their exorcisms coniurations and a corruptible and a materiall crosse more vertue then the consecration of our bodies and soules whiche Iesus Christ the great and soueraigne Byshoppe and eternall Priest hath done by his bloud and the liuely water of his holy spirit and the baptisme that we haue receyued in his name And if we as good christians haue borne the crosse with him that is to say the troubles and aduersities of this world in all patience and haue put all our hope and trust in the merite of his death passion reioysing our selues only in his crosse as the holy apostle saith
hath made al things for himselfe of whom all proceeded and vnto whom it muste â—t urne againe Theophilus It is very true Hillarius I demaund of thee more ouer vnto what ende doest thou thinke that all those popishe ceremonies do tende As for mée I can perceiue but that they haue taken their sight regarde to none other ende but vnto the money If there bee any which will deny it I will proue it like a good Logicioner the cause by his effects Sith then that the finall cause is the money vnto whose honoure all these lawes do referre themselues and that the same is the author I do also coÌ„clude that it is the God vnto whome all these thinges ought to be brought the which Iesus Christ calleth Mammou if you wil know his name in that Hebrewe or Siriake tongue Dr if you had rather in Greeke we will cal him Plutus whom Aristophanes magnifieth so much that he saith that there is no God so great no not lupiter hymselfe vpon which he hath not rule and dominion which is not subiect vnto him Theophilus That agréeth not euill with the witnesse of Salomon saying vnto money are all thinges obedient Hillarius If you will in like manner giue it a latine name and to make it a Goddsse you may call it Pecunia that is money as the auncient Latinists who haue made of it a Goddesse Wherevnto agréeth very well the common translation in that place which you alledged of Salomon saying vnto money are all things obedient Wherefore I am abashed of that whiche the Poet luuenal hath spoken for that men haue not made vnto it a Temple nor consecrated any Aulter sith that it is so puissant a Goddesse vnto whom is attributed the title of the Dmnipotent and altogether mightie whiche belengeth vnto God alone For it is commonly sayd Money doth althings Theophilus Sainct Augustine following the authoritie of Varro also saith that the auncients haue called that God in Latine Aesculanus because that the first money that was made was of Brasse Hillarius You may already perceiue that Plutus and Pluto were bretheren or at the least cosin Germaines sauinge that the one reigned vppon the earth and the other vnderneath the earthe Nowe forasmuche as that GOD whether you call him Mammon Plutus Pluto Aesculanus or Pecunia bée the Authoure and lawe gyuer of all those lawes by good right and reason hee maye dyspence with them And when they haue his dispensation there remayneth no more sinne as in respecte of the Pope For hee dispenseth with more greater things insomuch that hée will not suffer the vse of mariage to eate flesh and white meates but that one hadde néede to sell GOD to eate and to doe that hee woulde doc I meane the Gods that hee himselfe hathe made and of whiche his Priestes call themselues the makers whiche yet neuerthelesse are but the creatures of the Pope Do not the most greatest Cardinals whiche for suche doe acknowledge and confesse themselues Wherein there standeth a merueilous case the whiche Solin hathe forgotten when that hee made his booke of the meruaples and wounders of the worlde For that is a case the like whereoff was neuer seene that the Creator shoulde be a Creature and the Creature a Ceator as it appeareth by that that the Pope is the Creator of the Cardinals his Creatures Afterwards the Cardinals his Creatures are Creators of their Creator For they doe create and make the Pope After the same manner woulde they dce with their God whiche they make and vnmake afterwards do make him againe as they liste Theophilus For my parts I will net much reply against thy solution But I know not whether that Eusebius wil be contented And therefore I will shewe vnto him other reasons If the Pope and the Priestes doe loue somuch contynencye and chastytye as they make a shewe wherefore haue they not rather followed the counsell of Saint Paule then to sorge and make newe lawes altogether contrary both to the Aposlolicall doctrine and the lawe of God Who is hée that better knoweth man his vertue constance and continencye or his infirmitie fragilitye and incontinency then GOD who hath made and fashioned him and who hathe throughly proued him Then if God who beste did know the burthen of man that hee himselfe woulde not restraine him by lawes of continencye whiche myght haue béene an occasion of sinne and incontinencie but hée hathe ordeyned the holye mariage for a remedye the whiche hée woulde haue common vnto all estates and vnto all sorte of people whiche haue not the gyste of contynencye and that it was permitted at all tymes and seasons Then wherefore is it that those here will compell so longe time men and woemen to liue chaste and doe seperate the Spouse from the Spouses the Dusbande from the wyfe for to giue vnto them occasion to fall into whoredome And they do not the same for two or thrée dayes as the Israelites dyd when GOD woulde manyfest himselfe vnto them in the Mounte Sina They hadde good occasion to sanctifie and prepare themselues for to see and beholde that greate maiestie of God and to receiue that holye lawe that hée would giue vnto them And yet neuerthelesse Moses did not assigne vnto them but thrée dayes for to seperate themselues from their wines Abimelech required no more of Dauid and hys compaignions although that hee did giue vnto them of the halowed breade whiche was not lawefull to eate but for the Priestes of the lawe onelye And yet those thinges are not happened but for one tyme They haue not made lawes nor rules yearely or perpetuall nor common vnto all men In like manner also Ioel gaue not a prefixte day vnto the Israelites but aomonyshed and athorted them only to returne vnto the Lord and to leaue off all other things and to forget all carnall pleasures and delites for to runne vnto his mercy thorow true repentaunce infastinges prayers to the ende he may withdraw his beatings and scorgings the which hee had alreadie stretched fooâ—th euer them But he compelled no man Such erhortations and admonitions are very honest and requisite in the Churche chiefely in the times of calamities miseries when God threateneth vs with his furour Iudgement But it is more then necessarie to follow the moderation the which Sainct Paul in such case hath vsed chiefly in this time now for that the worlde is so much corrupted and depraued and somuch subiect vnto hir carnal affections The Apostle knowing mans infirmitie dursse not forbid mariage to any man of what qualitie soeuer he were off not only for a day but admonished and commauÌ„ded by Gods authoritie vnto all those who haue not the gift of continency and chastity for to reframe themselues without beeing polluted defiled neither in their bodyes or soules thorow the burning concupiscence and worke of the fleshe to mary for
to auoyde fornication whosedome and for to keepe their bodies hearts and consciences in all puritie and holines And he woulde not onely suffer that the husbande and the wife shoulde seperate themselues the one from the other ercept it be but for a small little time yea for to watche vnto fasting and prayer And vppon such condition that the seperation be not ouer long but that by and by they returne together againe least that Sathan by that meanes do finde occasion to tempte them thorow theyr incontinency and to â—istame their concupiscence And that thorow the fragilite of the fleshe the one or the other of the parties do not fall into some faulte inconuenience And the cause wherefore that holy Apostle hath written after that sort of those matters that is bicause as he saith he would not put the haulter about any mans neeke giuing vs thereby to vnderstand that those whiche forbyd or hinder the holy mariage doe put the rope aboute the necke of those vnto whome they haue forbidden and dooe put them in peryll of dampnation Wherefore I am meruaylously abashed to thincke to what ende those worshypfull prelates of the Churche haue thought in forbiddinge the mariage and espousals vnto all and for so longe time and that the stewes continued open at all tymes Doe they not well declare thereby that they doe followe the lawes and decrees of that greate whoore of Babilon the mother of fornication Eusebius Thou condempnest thy selfe by thine owne woordes For howe wyll they proue the whooredome when they require continencye and chastitie in mariage Thou regardest not that in condempninge the Prelates whiche are nowe in the Church and following thy affections thou doest also condempne the auncient doctors and counsayles For howe manye tymes haue Sainct Amborse Chrisostome Sainct Hierome Saincte Augustine and Saincte Gregory erhorted the maryed folke vnto contineneye and to absteyne from carnall woorkes in the tyme of fastynge and prayers and on the solempne feastes and chieflye vppon those dayes that wee muste goe vnto the Lordes table Theophilus Peraduenture friende Fusebius thou speakest better then thou thinckest Thou dyddest not speake altogether euill that they haue erhorted but there is greate dyfference betwéene erhortation and forbiddinge counsayle and commaundement I denye not but that they haue made such erhortations and admonitions vnto the people as the holy Apostle did vnto the Corinthians Wherein wée may followe them euen as they haue followed the Apostle who as wytnesseth Sainte Augustine hymselfe woulde not onelye suffer that the maryed persons shoulde make any seperation from the bed at no manner of tyme not for to watche vnto fastinge and prayer but thorowe the consent of the one and the other Forasmuche then as the auncient Doctors doe follow that rule wée wyll not speake gaynst them if they vse it onelye for admonytions and erhortations leauinge in such case euerye one at his lybertie wythout layinge vnto anye man bonde waight or necessitie which may induce hym to sinne and that hys infirmitye cannot beare it For euen as wée ought not to constraine and compell man vnto more greater continencie and chastity then hée may haue and that it is not lawfull for hym to vse the holye maryage which God hath gyuen vnto hym for a remedye so wee must not condempne those vnto whome GOD hath gyuen more greater gyste of continencye if they vse it to the honour of God both out of mariage and also in mariage For the honestye and continencie cannot bée too great in vs. Hillarius No truely if it bée truely wythout saynednesse and that in stéede of chastitie there bée not secrtnesse and priuinesse and that one doo not receiue the rule and the prouerbe of the Moonkes saying Si non caste tamen caute that is if not chastlye yet let it bée priuely Theophilus So dooe I vnderstande it But on the contrarye as soone as one commeth to restraine the faithfull more then God woulde and that the Apostle durste not take it in hande there is no man of so great authoritie that I can allowe For we cannot denie but that among the aunciences there were some more rigorous and contrary vnto mariage then was lawfull and chiefly Hierome who so muche praised virginitie and wydowhoode that oftentimes hée dyd iniury vnto maryage And it séemeth that hée would condempne it As it appeared in his writinges against Iouimanus and manye others Also thou canst not ercuse Gregory of superstition who sayth that the man whiche sléepeth with his owne wife ought not to enter into the Church excepte that hée bée firste washed wyth water bycause that although that the mariage be permitted of God yet neuerthelesse man may not haue the companie of his wyfe without sinninge some thing Wherefore hée hathe néede to purge hymselfe And affirmeth that that custome hathe bene of longe tyme receyued and allowed in the Romish Church Hillarius Neuerthelesse I cannot vnderstande vppon what place of the Scripture that custome hath taken his foundation except vppon the traditions of the Pharises and the washings of the Iews or Panims and vpon the doctrine of Persius saying And for to doe as I thee bid fulfill this iust request In Tiber early plunge thy head euen twise or thrise at lest And take the riuer water then and all besprinckle thee By force and vertue of the which the night shall purged bee Theophilus But when one hath grieuouslye sinned can the water purge and make him cleane I doubte not but that that superstition is yet of that which is left of the errour of those who altogether dyd condempne and forbid mariage But yet what superstition soeuer myght haue bene in some of the auncients yet neuerthelesse they forbidde not the mariage nor the espousalles vnto those whiche were not maryed in what time soeuer it were as afterwardes it was forbidden by theire successors in the counsailes of Laodocia Hilerdien and in that of Pope Martin and Nicolas who did forbyd to celebrate maryages in those times aboue lymited and dyd commaund to seperate for a time those that shoulde doe the contrary Hillarius It is but reason sith that they haue begunne the daunce and morishe to ende it altogether Syth that they haue alreadye determined and concluded that in the Dbsequies Mortuaryes Funeralles Feastes and in good deedes for the deade to followe the auncyent Romaines theire auncestors that they woulde also kéepe the other dependaunces of those feastes and religions Syth then that they woulde haue their Februales they muste haue also their Bacchanales which they celebrated at Shrouetide and that then the mariage should bée forbydden and the spouse seperated from the espouses and the husbande from hys wyfe as the Panims hadde a custome for to prepare themselues vnto the Bacchanales But there is a small dyfference in that that the Panyms dyd firste theire Lente afterwardes their Shrouetide For when they woulde consecrate themselues for
to enter and bée receyued in the Religyon of Bacchus or woulde prepare and sanctifie themselues for to celebrate the feaste of Bacchanales and Dionysiales they dyd abstayne themselues a certeyne tyme to touche a woman and also to lye wyth their lawfull wyues as Ouid wytnesseth wrytinge of the seperation of Hercules after this manner Now after that they feasted had they gaue themselues to rest And laide them downe in beds apart as pleasde their fansie best They did the same for to prepare themselues more deuoutly to solemnize the day and feaste due vnto God Bacchus which planted the Wine It was ordeined to kéepe chastitie and continence and to absteine at the least tenne daies together and after to wash and purifie themselues in the tenth day But they dyd recompence and acquite afterwardes with all dissolution whooredome and all abhomination the abstinenco that they made before as one maye see and thorowelye knowe by that whiche Titus Liuius hath written But our sauage and brutishe Christians beginne by Shronetide the which hathe his begynninge immedyatly after Christmas and they continue it alwayes in augementynge the dyssolutions more and more vntyll Shroueâ— sundaye and the feastyuall daye of Saynct Galissre for to beginne the Lent wyth better douotion and to prepare themselues more deuoutiye vnto the Lordes table to the which yet they beare not so much reuerence as the Panims dyd vnto their Bacchanales For the most part of the Priestes themselues who will not mary the newe maryed folke and which doe seperate the husbande from the wyfe wyth much a dooe they can bée wythout their whoores vpon Caster day But doe customely cause the pot to bée heated at the fire and doe make ready the dinner whilest that Monsieur the Canon the Curate or â—iear maketh a good face or countenaunce in the Church and administreth to others Wherefore I greatly feare least that during the time that they caused the wyues to bée seperated from their husbandes they doe play if they can finde the meanes such a craft and deceite vnto the poore simple husbands as the God Faunus dyd thinke to playe wyth Hercules whilest that he dyd lye alone being seperated from bys wyues bed for to prepare himselfe to the solempnitie of the Bacchanales For that good wyse man dyd not thincke to fayle accordinge to the witnesse of that good doctour Ouid and diuine before alledged but to goe and sanctifie the wyfe of Hercules in hir bed if hée had not deceiued himselfe in goinge to the bed of Hercules in stéede of the other that hee sought in the which hee dyd sinde Hercules who made him to fall backward God knoweth whether suche fortune shoulde happen alwayes vnto the husbandes when that such Faunus dooe come to sanctific their beddes if they should make them oftentimes to stumble wyth their heads forwarde They may well goe to blesse the beddes of the sponses for to learne the way and to vnblesse them afterwardes For those are the true Faunes Satyres and common Bulles who wyll leaue no woman vndefiled if thée woulde not bée ruled by others but by them But in they re case there is no fable as in Poetry for they laye on in good earnest wythout fayninge Wherefore their Doctours which compare the Priestes vnto the Cocke dooe no wronge For as there muste bée but one Cocke for a greate companye of Pullettes and Hennes so is one Prieste or Moonke in a Towne or Parishe inough for to kéepe woemen from béeing barren They wyll not leaue off if they may possible but to laye Cgges But when they haue layde and hatched them let hym that lysi bringe vppe the Chéekins They dooe altogether contrarye to the Capons whome one causeth to nourysh bring vp the young ones which they haue not hatched They gyue that office vnto the husbandes and they shall bée lyke vnto the Coockowe who goeth awaye after that hée hath layed in an other Birdes neaste and taketh no care who shall bringe vp hir younge ones What sayest thou friende Eusebius Mée thincketh that I haue alreadye declared vnto thée by the occasion of the feast of the deade the goodly conformyties betwéene your Relygion and the Panyms touchinge the purifications and sanctyfications But I wyll yet declare vnto thée others whiche dooe procéede of that same begynninge or of one kindred From whence doest thou thincke that the feaste of the Purificatyon of our Ladye hathe taken hys originall and begynninge Eusebius I doe beléeue that it was ordayned in the honour of God and the Uirgin Mary and in remembraunce of the presentation that shée made of hir sonne Iesus Christ and of the goodly woorkes of God whiche were done that day Theophilus I doe not doubte but that the auncyent Fathers haue instituteh manye feastes to a good intent chiefly for two causes The ffrst for to drawe awaye the Panims and Iewes by lyttle and lyttle chiefely those which had alreadye receyued the Gospell from their Idolatrye and accustomed superstityon and the better to plucke from them that whiche they thought they coulde not well obtayne excepte they dyd chaunge them into some other Ceremonyes to the ende that they should not thincke that they were altogether wythout relygion and diuine seruice For they were yet verye weake nor could not easelyâ— forget their olde customes Wherefore the auncient Fathers haue studyed and determined to chaunge the Iâ—â—â—ishe and Panishe Ceremonies into some other fashions more Christian lyke Therefore haue they ordayned many feastes the whiche they woulde haue made to serue for remembrances and recoroations of the benefites of God and for examples whiche myght edyfie the Church or congregation for to abolyshe the remembraunce of the Idolls and straunge Gods whiche were so muche rooted in their heartes Afterwardes they dyd sée by experience that there was greate infirmytie rudenesse and ignoraunce in the most greatest part of the people and that if they had not some feastes and Ceremonyes many woulde followe those of the Iewes and Panims and haue fellowshippe wyth their sacrifices and woulde sette but little by the preachinge of the woorde of god For there are manye whiche woulde neuer sette their foote wythin the Church doore and woulde neuer bée founde in the Christian assembles if there were neuer any feaste And so by that meanes they are enforced to let and stoppe such euylls and daungers Wherefore they haue bene constrained to ordaine feastes containinge the commemoration of the principall workes of God and the principal articles of the faith the better to imprint into the heartes of euery one to the ende that there should be none amonge the Christians but at the least he should know the principall pointes of the Christian religion vpon his fingers endes But their institution hath not taken so good effect nor suche issue as they looked it should haue done For man is of such nature that if he be without outward Ceremonies
now Eusebius There is no doubt of it Theophilus Sith that it is so tell mée what soules went thether For eyther it must bée altogether emptie and voide or else it must be that some went thether eyther those of the elect faithfull or those of the Infidels and reprobate Now I do not thinke that thou wilt say that the Purgatory was for the Infidels and reprobate Eusebius One may so iudge by that which is written of the wicked rich man. Theophilus Sith then that hell was for the reprobate it followeth then necessarily that the soules of the elect shoulde goe into Purgatorye If it hée so to what ende serueth the Limbe For you doe saye that all the Patriarches Prophetes and true faythfull whiche are departed out of this worlde before the death and passion of Iesus Christe were there kepte and deteyned and they coulde not goe into Paradise vntyll such time as Iesus Christe had satysfied for them Wherefore I doe conclude accordinge to your doctrine eyther that the Limbe and Purgatorye were all one place and lodginge or else that the one of them two was voyde and supersâ—uous or that there was but one or for to speake the truth neyther the one nor the other For if the Limbe were for to receiue the faythfull that dyed in the fayth of the promyse made vnto Abraham what néede was there anye more of Purgatorye bad they not Purgatorye suffycient inough in the Limbes Were they not sufficientlye tormented to bée excluded from Paradise and depryued from the ioyes thereoff and from the fruytion of the glorye of GOD as you doe affirme For what more greater torment can a faythfull man haue then to bee depryued from suche a good thinge That is not onely a Purgatorye but a very hell Eusebius I do know that in hearing thée speake that thou which wouldest teache others art yet in greater ignoraunce and that thou vnderstandest verye euyll this matter The Limbe then was for those which were in such estate as those are nowe which haue finished their penaunce and haue made entire and whole satisfaction for their sinnes in this world which doe go strayght waye into Paradyse sauinge that those there cannot yet enter bicause that the doore was shutte vntyll that Iesus Christ came to open it and to breake the gates of Hell. Theophilus Wherefore was the Purgatorye Had it in it yet a certeyne other sorte of soules and of an other condytion then those which went into the Limbes Eusebius Yea. For thou mayst well vnderstande that all the faythfull which haue procéeded and bene before the comminge of our Lorde Iesus Christe haue not all of them bene so holy and so perfect as the Patriarches and Prophetes Wherefore it were no reason that incontinently after they are deade they shoulde receyue as much felicytie as they wythout they doe first accomplishe and ende their penaunce in Purgatorye and satysfie for their sinnes the which they haue not done in thys world as the holy Patriarches and Prophets haue done or otherwyse GOD shoulde not bée iuste For what reason is it that hée whiche hath lyued in all viees and sinnes all the time of this lyfe vntyll the laste tyme of hys death in whiche gée hath had repentaunce of hys sinnes and hath asked mercye of God shoulde haue no more gréeuous punishment but should receiue as great reward as he which al his life time hath serued God faithfully and hath alwayes lyued in holynesse righteousnesse and innocencie Theophilus Take héede thou doe not blaspheme God and doe imurye vnto his grace and mercye For I doe greatly feare but that thou wilt bée like vnto the brother of the prodigall childe who was enuious against his brother and murmured against his father béeing angrye at the gentle receiuing and of the grace and fauour that hee dyd vnto his sonne whome he had recoured béeing reduced and brought into the right way or least that thou be one of the companions of theÌ„ which were hired to work in the vineyard which did murmure against the good man of the house bicause y he did giue as much wages vnto those whom he called at the eleuenth houre a little before night for to work in his vineyard as vnto those whoÌ„ hée appointed from the morning which haue borne the burthen and heate of the day Wherfore dost thou not accuse our Lord Iesus Christ who hath aunswered vnto that poore theefe who dyd hange vppon the Crosse â—â—yth him This daye shalt thou bée with mée in Paradise What good déedes had hée done before Art thou enuious of the grace which God doth vnto the poore sinners Eusebius God forbid But we must vnderstand that as God is mercifull so is hée righteous And if the théefe which was crucified with Iesus Christ had had that priuiledge it followeth not therefore that all haue the lyke or that they ought to haue it For as the lawe makers doe say the priuiledges of a fewe are not common lawes to all men Theophilus If that théefe hath receiued so greate goodnesse by one singular priuiledge I doe aunswere vnto thée further that none is saued but by priuiledge For all wée haue meryted eternall dampnation of our nature Inasmuch then as wée be saued that is thorow a singular priuiledge which is giuen of God vnto the elect by Iesus Christ which is not common vnto the reprobate Eusebius There is yet an other reason wherefore that théese went straight into Paradise wythout passinge by the fire and the paines of Purgatorye that is bicause that he had alreadye done his penaunce in this world and hath satisfied for his sinnes Theophilus What penaunce or satisfaction coulde hée haue made For the theftes and murthers for which hée was hanged on the Gybet Eusebius But it was the paine that hée endured and suffered and the death that he hath receiued for his demerites Theophilus As much did his companion suffer which was hanged on the left hande but yet neuerthelesse his torments haue serued him nothing at all and hée dyd not heare such promise of Iesus Christ as the other Eusebius Bicause that hée dyd not take his death and torment quyetly and patientlye and hath not beléeued in Iesus Christe and demaunded pardon of hys sinnes as his companion did Theophilus Thou alwayes commest vnto my compt and thou shalt hée compelled to confesse that there is nothinge which was the cause of his saluation but the faith which he had in Iesus Christ and the mercy of God which hée hath obteyned by the same without that that God had regard neither to his dignitie or worthinesse nor vnto his workes but vnto Iesus Christe his sonne for whose loue he hath pardoned him not for the forment and death which the théese hath suffred and the satisfaction that he could doe vnto him but for the forment death and passion which Iesus Christ hath suffred the satisfaction that he hath made for him the which
faire and a goodly péece of worke But wée must bring it to the touchstone the which shall not be after our owne iudgement but according to the same of GOD who is the iudge of vs and of our workes Therefore saith he that the day shall declare it and that the fire shall trye what euerye mannes worke shall bée He calleth the day of the Lord all tymes in which hée manifesâ—eth his presence vnto men by any manner of wayes the which he doth chiefely by the manifestation of his truth and reuelation of his Gospell By the fire although that in the Scripture it be many times taken for the temptacions and tribulations yet neuertheles it agréeth best héere to the sence meaning of the Apostle to take the fire for the towchstone which procéedeth of the holy Ghost which is the true fire which consumeth all doctrine inuented by men the which cannot abyde the spirituall towchstone but vanisheth away assoone as one proueth the spirites whether they be of God or not Asmuch happeneth of all the workes procéeding of such doctrine the which cannot beare the iudgement of god But to the contrary it happeneth to the truth as to the faith the which euen as the golde becommeth more fairer and sheweth it selfe more pure when it is tryed and examined in that furnayce and approcheth néerer of that spirituall iudgement And therefore when the word of the Lorde is manifest by the vertue of the holy Ghost then all things are reuealed We shall know what worke we haue made whether it hath any â—ault in it or not and whether we haue lost our time or whether we be worthy of a reward If we haue not buylded a matter agréeing to the foundation when the truth the iudgement of the spirit of god presseth our conscience or that the temptations also and the afflictions doe compasse vs rounde about wée are compelled to condempne our worke and we shall proue that that which we estéeme to be of some waight and importaunce is nothing at all and that in which we put our hope and trust cannot serue vs neither confirme nor assure our consciences Eusebius But how are we saued by the fire if our workes are lost and by the same consumed Theophilus The Apostle declareth it sufficiently himself if we do marke of what people he speaketh He speaketh not of Hereticks Apostates seducers and false Prophets which teach false doctrine contrary to the faith and which are seperated from Iesus Christ and from his body which is the Church by their infidelytie and peruersitie But he speaketh of the Masons and buylders of the Churche that is to say of Euangelycall Pastors and Ministers which haue not forsaken the foundation nor y head which is Iesus Christ that is to say which haue not tourned themselues from the principall poynts and articles of the Christian religion and from the saith in Iesus Christ and from things necessary to saluation But haue mingled some of their inuentions and traditions amongst the doctrine of the Gospell and haue fayled in some lyttle and small things which are not very daungerous Those then to whom such things shall happen shall receyue domage and losse For their worâ—e and that which they haue added to it of theirs shall perish and shall haue no more profite then if they were altogether dispossessed of them But they shal haue rather shame and confusion for them Yet neuerthelesse they shall be saued but as by the fire not their fault their errors and ignoraunce and their buildings buylded without the word of God may be agréeaâ—le to God But bicause of the foundation which they haue holden and kept and of the head of which they remayne members and of the faith which abideth in them shall be purged and delyuered from error and ignoraunce by that fire of the holy Ghost with which they shall bée illuminated But yet neuerthelesse héerein men will liken him vnto a foolish buylder which shall buyld vpon a good and sure foundation of stone and a rocke a house or buylding of wood â—â—ye chasse and stubble which thinke to haue made a goodly péece of worke and knowes not his fault vntill that he séeth that the fire bath taken and consumed it altogether Then he knoweth by experience that be hath lost his time and the cost and expences that he hath bestowed about it and that be is forced to beginne his buylding a new â—â— though he had neuer put his hand vnto it sauing that thâ— shame and the losse abideth with him We call our selues all Christians and doe confesse that there is but one foundation and one head Iesus Christ But although that in that behalfe we doe all agrée yet neuertheles when they come to buylde vpon that foundation all shall not be found good Masons For many will be Masters before they haue bene good schollers and apprentices and will not follow the rule and the instruction of the master Masons well expert and cunning in their mistery and occupation but thincking to make some fairer thing doe buylde after their owne fantasie They doe preach or heare the Gospell and will serue god after their affection and as they thinke good And thincking to make some faire péece of worke they marre it altogether But they doe not know it by and by vntill such time as the fire of the Gospell and of the spirite of God which is the true Iudge and the truth reuealed vnto men destroyeth all the goodly outwarde appearaunce and maketh it to be séene such as it is and not such as it appeareth outwarde As wée sée by experience in the Moonkish sectes and in many other ceremonyes superstitions Idolatryes and workes inuented of menne in which wee doe glorye and boaste our selues and thinke that we haue done mough for to merite foure Paradises and for to make God to be in our debte But when the Gospell is purely preached which beateth down all error all vayne supersticion and mans trust then we shall know our fault and be ashamed of that of which we thinke to be much estéemed Or when God sendeth vnto vs some great affliction temptation and aduersitie that his iudgement presseth vs that he examineth and prourth our woorkes as the fire proueth and tryeth the golde in the furnayce Then we shall know our hypocrisie folly vanitie and false religion the which wée doe not thinke but to be pure godlynesse and righteousnesse And as the holy Apostle esteeming as dongue all that which before wée estéemed as golde But forasmuch as wée haue not renounced and forsaken Iesus Christ nor the fayth which wée haue in him wee are not altogether lost thorow the fault that we haue committed but it happened vnto vs euen so as vnto him which hath escaped the fire But he hath yet neuertholesse lost his house and all that which was in it bicause that it was not buylded with good stuffe and could saue but his body all naked
paine of which Iesus Christ speaketh off maye bée héere in this worlde or at the daye of iudgement or in hell as the same of the Sodomites Gomorrians and their lyke Or thou shalt bée constrayned to put into Pargatorye all the wicked and reprobate which haue bene sithence the beginning of the worlde For the Lorde doth alwayes menace and threaten with more grieuous paine the successors sors then the predecessors bicause that they doe agrauate alwayes more more the iudgement of God vppon them bicause that the light is more greater reuealed vnto them and that they haue more examples of the iudgements of God that which they despise do yéeld themselues culpable not onely of their wickednessé but also of the sinnes of their fathers and predecessors allowing them by their doings Thomas The sleepers and dreamers may take from that place an argument for to proue their dreames bicause it séemeth by the words of Iesus Christ that the paine of the Sodomits and Gomorrians is differred vntill the day of iudgement But thou hast already shortned and cut off the way for them in declaring vnto vs bow the iudgement is already done and how it is yet to doe Theophilus These two places ought very well to incitate and stirre vs forward to follow veritie and to seke it For ignoraunce exempteth vs not from the iudgement of God the which commeth of our fault chiefely in these dayes that the Gospell is so cléerely reuealed vnto vs. Eusebius Therefore I desire to know and well vnderstaÌ„d all those places which might yet trouble my braines amonge which there is one in the actes of the Apostles which some men doe interprete for the Purgatory It is there written that God hath raised vp Iesus Christ and 〈◊〉 sâ—d the sorrowes of Hell. Nowe he hath not loosed the sorrowes of the hell fire or gebenne which are eternall nor of the Limbe For there is to be had ioy and consolation It followeth then that the same ought to bée vnderstanded of the sorrowes of Purgatory As much may we say of many like places which are in the Psalmes as these héere vnto which Dauid said The sorrowes of hell compassed â—e Then Lord hast brought my soule out of hell God shall deliuer my soule from the power of hell when he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And Iob sayth in like manner O y thou waâ—idest â—eepe mée and hide mée in the hell vntyll thy wrath â—ere stilled and to appointe me a time wherein thou mightest remember mée what other hel can we héere vnderstand then Purgatory Theophilus I am abashed of the great ignorance of such interpreters of the scripture For first in the place of the acts it is not in the Gréeke copies the sorrowes of hel and it was not so written of S. Luke For he hath sayd the sorrowes of death and not of hell although that in your common translation it is written as thou sayest But although it were so all shoulde come to one ende For the text doth plainely declare that Saint Peter speaketh in that Sermon of the resurrection of Iesus Christ and that hée himselfe expoundeth hell for the tribulations extreme sorrowes the death the pit the sepulchre the low places and the estate and condition of the dead from which Iesus Christ is raised He maketh there no mencion of the Limbe of Purgatory nor of the gehenne or hell fire That same solution sufficeth for all the other places by thée alledged For that is very common in the Scripture to take hell in that signification as it appeareth by those places the which thou bast put foorth For how many times saith the Prophet in those same places The sighings of the dead haue enuironed me I haue called vpoÌ„ thée in my trouble I haue cryed vnto thée and thou hast healed mée Thou hast deliuered mee from those that goe down into the pit He meaneth none other thing by those woords but that he setteth foorth and declareth that hell from which he was deliuered Wherefore I am greatly ashamed both of Eccius and of Cochleus for that they were not ashamed to alledge such places for to mainteine their Purgatory Eusebius Whatsoeuer thou sayest it seemeth neuerthelesse that already in the time of Saint Paul the Christians were of an opinion that the liuinge might giue some ayde vnto the deade by that that hée writeth of those which did baptise themselues for the dead Nowe that could not profite neither those which were in Paradise nor those which were in hell It must be then that it profiteth those of Purgatory Theophilus Thou oughtest alreadye to haue vnderstanded by that which hath bene sayde of that place that it can serue nothing at all for Purgatory I doe not denye vnto thée but that in the time of the Apostles there were suffrages and prayers for the dead But that was among the Panims and Idolaters as it hath bene already very amply entreated off amongest vs And doubte not but that there remayneth some roote of such superstition in some of those which are called Christians But if it were so as thou doest vnderstande it it followeth not therefore that Sainct Paul alloweth that manner of dooing As the auncient Doctors themselues dooe witnesse it namely Sainct Ambrose For I may well take an argument against a Papist which will denye vnto mée the resurrection or immortalitie of the soules with their manner of dooings towardes the dead for to beate him with his owne swoorde and yet I will not allow neuerthelesse their superstition But it is not néedfull to stay any more vpon that place sith that I haue already declared vnto thée howe the auncientes haue vnderstanded it and howe it is also expounded by others For whatsoeuer exposition that thou maist giue vnto it it cannot serue for thy purpose And there was neuer any of the auncientes which hath dreamed that the same was done bicause of Purgatorye For Epiphanius witnesseth that those which baptised themselues for the dead which were dead before that they had receiued Baptisme did it to that ende that when they shoulde rise againe in the resurrection they shoulde not bée punished for that they haue not bene baptised in this worlde He sayth that such was their opinion Wherefore it is easily to knowe that they did not thinke of Purgatory Hée toucheth yet an other exposition of that place the which hée alloweth But yet it maketh lesse for thée To conclude that place serueth as much for your broylers of soules for to proue your Purgatory as for the Marcionistes heretickes who as witnesseth Theophilactus doe drawe them to their purpose for to proue their baptisme which they receiue for the dead For when any dyed among them without baptisme they had a custome that one that was a liue should enter within the béere of the dead or where the dead was layde Afterwards they did come vnto the béere and demaunded of the dead if he will be baptised Then the liue man
full resolution they will fall vppon this sence Although that Iesus Christ be dead as touching his flesh body and humanitie yet neuerthelesse he is quickened by the spirite that is to say by his eternall vertue and diuine power by the which hee is not onely risen from death but also hath giuen vnto vs his quickening flesh and hath tourned death into lyfe quickening by the same all those which were dead thorow sinne And to the ende that none should dispise Iesus Christ bicause that he is dead and was crucified as a vyle and an abiect person he declared that he is so dead that there is no lyfe but in his death and that none can lyue but by him and that he is not onely to day but euerlasting and that by the same spirite and diuine and eternall vertue he is already an other time come vnto the worlde and hath iudged and condempned the rebells the proude and peruerse spirits oppressed with wicked spirites which were not vnder their kéeping but did sléepe not thinking on the iudgement of god vntil such time as the floud ouerwhelmed and drowned them as he doth yet at this present by that same spyrite by the which hée Iudgeth an condempneth the world and saueth and quickeneth his elect euen as he did in the time of Noe. Hillarius It seemeth that that exposition is also a little vyolated far fetched neuerthelesse it commeth not euill to purpose but séemeth to agrée well inough to the letter of the text of S. Peter Theophilus Bicause that the place is obscure hard I dare not to define pronounce of it rashly But I would gladly put forth these expositions to that ende you may iudge of theÌ„ for to awake the spirits for to finde out some better thing Neuertheles I thinke that this héere is the simplest that is to say that S. Peter willing to shew foorth the efficacie vertu of Iesus Christ of his death and passion witnesseth that it was so great that the lyuing haue not onely felt perceiued it but the dead also vnto whom it is come But in what manner or after what sort How is it communicated vnto vs and all his giftes and graces but by his spirite and diuine vertue Euen as then by his spirite he hath giuen vnto vs his quickening flesh which is vnto vs spirite and lyfe and hath communicated vnto vs his vertue so hath he manifested himselfe by the same spirite vnto the deade both during their lyse and after their death For it is sayde of Abraham that he did sée the day of the Lord and reioyced If he hath then already during this mortal lyfe felt the efficacie and vertue of Iesus Christ long time before that he didde offer his eternall sacrifice wée cannot doubt but that he and all the others which were in his bosome haue felte it more fully when he did manifest himselfe more fully By this we may well vnderstand whereto this place can serue to proue Purgatory For if the vertue of the death and passion of Iesus Christ be of such efficacie that it goeth vnto the dead what néede haue we then of Masses and Suffrages of the Priests for to comfort the dead and to apply vnto them the merits of Iesus Christ sith that none can do it but he himself by the vertue of his spirite which quickeneth the quicke and the dead Now hée calleth that manifestacion predication not that he hath preached verbally or by mouth towards the dead such as is among the lyuing but bicause that euen as by the preaching and Euangelycall ministring Iesus Christ is manifested vnto vs and doe feele the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion Also the spirits of the dead haue theirs but in their maner and such as apperteineth vnto them euen as we doe vnderstande that God gaue himselfe to his Angells to be knowen and to make them tast of his bountie and goodnesse but by an other meane then vnto vs bicause that their condition was contrary We must not then dreame out a Lymbe and a materiall prison and a locale descending of the spirite of Iesus Christ into hell and a preaching such as wée haue But wée must vnderstande all those things spiritually For as it is not néedfull that Iesus Christ should descend locally from heauen for to make vs feele his vertue so it is not necessary to descend into hell For the vertue of his spirite is such that it filleth heauen and earth and is spread abrode euery where Hillarius As I thinke our dreaming Theologians had very much leasure wheÌ„ they setled themselues to dispute whether the soule of Iesus Christ did suffer in the hell Amongest the which some of them are founde to bée of opinion that he did Theophilus If they had wel vnderstanded that which Iesus Christ sayd vnto the théefe This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise and how Iesus Christ descended into hell when his soule was sorrowfull and in anguish euen vnto the death and that he hath dronken vp the cup of the wrath and furor of God and hath borne his iudgement and our malediction and curse and the dampnation due vnto our sinnes insomuch that he was stroken beaten of God hath suffered death after which he descended into the sepulchre or graue they should not haue néeded againe to make the soule of Iesus Christ to descend from Paradise in which it was for to goe into hell For it is sufficiently giuen vnto the spirites of his elect to vnderstand which haue receiued consolation and vnto those of the reprobate declaringe vnto them from what goodnesse they were depriued without descending or assending Eusebius To what purpose then doth he speake of the prison and what other thing can hée vnderstand but the Lymbe of which it is also spoken in Zachery saying I haue let thy prisoners out of the pit where is no water Theophilus By the Words of Zachery the Lord giueth vs to vnderstand none other thing but that by the bleud of the alliance that he hath made with Syon he will deliuer his people that are captiue kept in the bottom of all miseries By the prisoners he vnderstandeh his people that bée in captiâ—itie by y euils he vnderstandeth a captinitie a goulse and bottome of all miserye from which it is not possible for them to come out by any meanes if God doe not delyuer them himselfe Therefore he calleth it Welles for to declare the depth yea yet without water in which one cannot swimme to the ende they may the better knowe their miserie and the grace and mercy of God towardes them When S. Peter did speake of the prison of the spirits he did it for to amplyfie the better the grace of the Gospell comparing those which wer vnder the seruitude bondage of the law vnder those shadows figures vnto those which shall be in a prison in
peace and at rest Wherefore let vs sing an other Oremus Let vs suffer them to sing that in stéede of Vigiles and of Libera me and of their Fidelium and I will make his Epitaph which shall serue him for his latter Oremus O gentle sir Iohn who of Purgatory Hast gotten so much of siluer and golde Make speedely to be known to all of the Popry To sing Requiem aeternam for his sweete soule By him an Epicures lyfe thou didst lead But now alas he is dead an hath no place And with him thy earthly kingdome is dead Sing for him then Requiescant in pace Thomas Amen Now sith that he is buryed let vs goe to Supper that he may haue also his funerall Supper and that wée may as well banket as the priests in those of the dead in the dayes of their Anniuersaries yeares minde Hillarius Let vs goe FINIS ¶ A Table of the principall matters of the thirde parte of the Christian disputacions A. ABsolution of the quick and the dead 275. Aduertisement 293. Against the Originists 272. Alexander 283. Amongst whom are reputed the soules of Purgatory 274. Anabaptists 238. Ansegisus 234 Angells dare not curse the diuells 285. Aunswere to the place of the Psalmes 263. Antechrist 276. Antiochus 215. Apocripha what it is 216. Apostles of the circumcision 257. Apothegma 211 Archesilaus 257. Argument a posteriori 279. Asshes of Pope Boniface 280. Augmentation of the felycitie to Angels 246. Authoritie of the booke of the Machabees 213. Authoritie of the Prophets Apostles 217. Authoritie of the Scripture 217. Authoritie of the church 217. B. Baptise with the holy Ghost and fire 235 Baptise two times in the yeare 239 Baptisme delayed 239. Baptisme onely of Iesus Christ 256 Baptisme of woemen 241 Baptisme of water whether it be necessary to saluation 232. Baptisme of deuotion 233. Baptisme of bloud 237. To be baptised for the dead 290 Beginning of the iudgement of God. 247. Beginning of Hell and Paradise 248. Bonauenture deified and made God. 283. Boniface the eight 280. Bookes Canonicall 216. Bookes of Thoby 262. Booke second of the Machabees 217 Bookes Canonical and Apocripha 214 Bookes of Ioseph 214 To be borne agayne of water how it is be vnderstanded 234. Bosome of Abraham 225 Boow the knee 291 Bulles doing all things 284 Bulles in Purgatory 277. Burying of Purgatory 299. Burying of the conscience 277. C. Candell before 268 Canons of the Apostles 215 Cathecismenes 237 Circumcision deferred 229 Christ the restorer of all things 247 Christ our pledge 215. Church of Lausanne 256. One onely and eternall Church 244. Charecter indebilis 276. Charles 256. Clement the sixt 283. Clockes of Purgatory 286. Comparison of the diuine and humaine doctrine 264. Comperison of the lyfe present and that to come 246. Condition of the childreÌ„ of the christioÌ„s 230. Conscience 247. Conscientia mille testes 247. Consolation in Abrams bosome 231. Contrarieties of Canons 285 Cornelius 298. Counsell of Africa 242. Creame Papisticall 276. Creators of the Creator 281. Custome of the true false doctors 266. D. Day of the Lord. 264. Dead doe bite 274. The dead how they are punished in their successours 253 Degrees of the Iudgement of god 249 Descending of Christ into hell 296. Difference betweene the Limbe Purgatory and Hell. 22â— Difference betweene the fire of Purgatory and Hell. 221. Difference betweene the olde and new Testament 244 Difference betweene the dead vnder the olde and new Testament 244 DispeÌ„sation of the tresure of the church 284 Disposition of this Dialogue 262 Diuersitie of pardons 271 Doctrine troublesome 259 Doctors scholasticall doubting of the bulls 284. Dreames of the Saints and of the rauing Theologasters 213 Dreamers or sleepers 249. E. Eccius 262. Encrease of glory in the other lyfe 245. Enâ—ant how it shall beare the iniquitie of his father 253. Error about the Sacraments 238. Error touching the Supper 234. Error of the Bohemians Morians 234. Estate of the soules after the seperation from the body 249 Eternitie temporall 272. Euangelists of the Pope 287. Example of the long dayes in Purgatory 286. Example of Iudas Machabeus 251. Example of the mercy of God. 220. Example 212. 286 Example of Fryer Roger. 277. Examples that the Saynts ought not to be all drawne into a generall consequence 243. Example of Ziphora 243. Exposition of the place of Saint Iohn ca. 3. 234. Exposition of the schoolemen vppon the plâ—ce of Saint Iohn ca. 3. 236 Exposition of the place of Thoby 262. Exposition of the place of the 1. Cor. ca. 3. 263. Exposition Allegoricall 268 Excommunicate the dead 282. Excommunicate the doctrine of the dead 285 Ex puris negatiuis nihill sequitur 271. F. Fable of Theseus and Pyrothus 221. Fable of the fayned mourning of a Laborer 300. Fable of Gregory 221. Faith of Symon 240. Fire 265. Foundation of the order of the Mendicants 287. Fryer Christopher 255. Friends of the kitchin 223. Furyed and she diuells 248. G. Gates of dreames 212 Gate of yâ—ory and of horne 213. Gentiles saued without Circumcision 229. Gerion 258. Gibellinus 280. God of Hipocrites 22â— God compared to tyrants 252. Good workes 223. Grace halfe 251. Great Lockyer 276. 2â—5 Greatnesse of the paines of Purgatory 221. Gregory the first made no mention of bulls for the dead 284. H. Halfe a sauiour 251 Hangmen of Infants 238. Harman condempned by the Pope 282 Saint Harman 282 Hell of the Origenists and Catabaptists 224. Helindius 270 Henticus 4. 282 Hercules 258. Herostratus 256. Herostratus burned the Temple of Diana 256. Herauld of righteousnesse 29â— Holy Ghost a fire 235. Holy Ghost water 235. Honour to the sacraments 2â—9 Hostensis contrary to the bulls 284. Hipocrits enuious of the grace of god 220 Hydra 258. I. Ignoraunce excuseth 〈◊〉 289. Image of death 250 Indians 235. Incredulitie of Thomas 212. Insufficiencie of the booke of the Machabees for to proue Purgatory 2â—1 〈◊〉 of saints for the dead 277. Ioseph authour of the booke of the Machabees 214. Isaac and Ismael Iubile of the Pope 283. Iubile of God. 283. Iudgement of the Scriptures to whom it apperteineth 216. Iudgement by the word 211. Iudgement of the Sodomites and Gomorrians 288. Iudgement of saint Hierome touching the bookes of the Machabees 214 Iustice and mercy of God. 222 K. Keyes of saint Peter of the Pope 276. Keyes of hell 279 Keye chaunged 276. Kindrâ—â—s of Loth. 288 L. Languages of the Prophets 217 Our Lady of Butter 241. Legends of Saints 215. Legittimation 216. Lembe 226. Lembus 226. Limbus 225. Saint Lewes canonized 282 Licence Theologicall 225 Limbe of the Infants destroyed 238. Limbe of the Infants 226. Limbe of the Fathers 244. Limbe 219. 297 Limbe what it signifieth 225. Liuing called dead 294 Ludâ— seculares 283. M. Madianiâ—s papisticall 287. Machabees 215. Man making Gods. 280. Manner to know God. 279. Marke of conscience 277 Marke of the great whore 277. Marâ—â—â—nists 242. Martirs before the comming of Iesus
1. Iohn 3. â—â— Colos 3. â— 3 Augmentacion of the felicitie to the Angels 1. Peâ—er 1. â—â—â— Psal. 9â— c. 11 Hebr. 1 c. â— Luc. 15. c. 10 1. Cor. 6 â— 2. Ephâ— 3 b. 10 Christ the restorer of all thinges Ephe 1 b 10. Collo 1 â— â—â— Rom. â— d. â—â— Torments of the reprobate aggraâ—ated 2. Peter 2. 2. 4. 2. Peter 2. b. 9 The beginning of gods iudgmeÌ„t Conscience Câ—nscâ—â—ncia 〈◊〉 â—â—stâ—â— Iâ—â—â—nal Saâ—y 13. Cur tamen hos tu Euasisse puteâ— quos dâ—â—â— consâ—â—â— sacti Meus reddit attonitos surdo verbere câ—dit Occultum quâ— tiâ—ntâ— anâ—mum tortore stâ—gelluÌ„ Item Exemplo quâ—d cunque malo committitur ipsi Displicet autori prima haec est vlâ—â—â— quod se Iudiâ—â— nemo noâ—â—ns absoluitur Item Nocte dâ—â—que suum gestat â—n pectore testem Spartano cut dam respondâ—t Pythia â—ates Deut. 28. c. 15. Esa. 57. d. 20. Genes 4. b. 8 Mat. 27. â— â— Act. â— c. 1â— The vvitnesse of conscience that there is a GOD. 1. Iohn 3. d. 20 The beginning of hell and of Paradise Iohn 3. 5. 6. The Fuâ—yes and she diuells Iuuenal Sat. 13 â—ug Aene. 6 Cic. in oraâ— pro Piso The vvorme of conscience Esa. 66. g. 24 Mar. 9. g. 41 The degrees of the Iudgement of God. 2. Pet. 2. 2. 4 Mat. 8. d. 29 Mar. 5. 2. 7 The estate of y soules after they be seperated froÌ„ the bodye The sleepers Philip. 1 c. 22. Tusâ— q. â—â— â— The Image of death 2 Cor. 5. Gasâ— 4. â— 2 Roâ— â— â— â—â— 2. Cor. 3 The insufficiencie of the booke of the Machabees for to proue Purgatory The example of Iudas Payne faulte Grace but halfe Halfe a sauiour Raymond Vnde versus Gratta magna Det ventam non dimidiabit Aut nihil aut totum propâ—tiando dâ—biâ— The Pope more puissant then Christ God compared vnto tyrants 1. Tim. 2. b. 6 Prayers for the resurrection Hovv one maâ— pray for y dead Daniel 9 â— 4. Reg 22. d 2. Cor 34. f Ezech 18. e. 20 Hovv the child beareth y offcÌ„ce of his father Exo. 20. a 5 4. Reg. 17 Mat 23. d 35 Luc 11 g 5â— 2. Mach 12. f. 4c Acham Iosua 7. c. 18 Hovv those that are dead are punished in their successours 4. Reg. 10. a. 1. Esa. 13. 14. To pray for the resurrection of the body the coÌ„ming of christ Apoc. 6. c 10 Esa. 40 c. 13 Esa. 14. â— 26 Mat. 10. d. 29 Luc. 12. â— 7 Mat. 6. d. 33 7. b. 8 Luc. â— b. 9 1. Cor. 15. To pray for the Sainctes vvhich are in Paradise A nevy Letany Fryer Christopher Masse of Reqâ—â—em for the Sainctes One onely baptisme of Iesus Christ Carolus Horostratus The vvar of the Gyants Sinne vnto death 1. Iohn 5. d. 16 Ismael Genes 16. c. 12 Gal. 4. d. 30 Sara and Agar Isaac Ismael Genes 21. b 9 The church of Lausanne 3. Reg. 2. g 44 Psal. 139. b. 23 Act. 1. d. 24 Apostles of the circumcisâ—on Gal. 5. a Phil. 3. a Vayne glory Skirmiâ—shers The metaphisicall Theology Euse de pra eâ—an â—â— 14. ca. 2 Archesilaus Hydra Gerion Hercules Mat. 8. b. 14. Maâ— 1. c. 29 2. Cor. 11. d. 1â— A signe for to iudge the false and true Prophets A nevv transfiguration of Sathan Purgatory for the body A troublesome doctrine Mat. 12. d. 44. Masses for the young children Tho. dist 12. li. 4. deffc enche Reisersp de mor. vâ—rt Sermo dom â— aduent The disposition of this dialogue Thob 4. d 18. The booke of Thobie The exposition of the place of Thoby 〈…〉 stovve ones bread vvine vpon the burtial of the righteous Thobâ—â—â—â—â— The place of Thoby 〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉 An other pâ—ace taken out of the psalme 66 The place of the 1. Cor 3. c. 11 Aunswere to the place of the Psalmes Esaiâ— 4. â— 4. â—ere 49. â— 27 1. Pet. 1. b 7. 1. Cor. 3 â—â—â— The exposition of the place of the Corrithians The tresure of the Church De ciui dei li. 21. ca. 26. Trac defid oper c. 16. Ench. ca. 68 Theophila in 1. Cor. 3. Psal. 19 c. 11 A comparison of the dâ—â—â—ne and humâ—â—ne doctrine The day of the Lord. The fire â— Pet â— b. 7 To be saued by the syre Col 1. c. 18. â— b. 10. â—â—hc 1. d. 22 The 〈◊〉 of foolish builders Philip. 3. b. 8 Ambro. in 1. Cor. 3. The custome of the false and truâ— doctors Psal. 116 b. 11 2. Cor. 4. c 13 Proueâ—bâ— Rogula Lesbia Arist â—â— â— mora Eras chil The place oâ— Maâ— â— â—â— â—5 The Sargeants of Purgatoriâ— Lâ—â— 16. b. â—0 Act â—â— b. 7 â—eon de â—tin seâ—â— dâ—â—â—or Aut Floâ—eâ—â—ia Sum. Prouerbe The candlâ— before The vse of allegâ—â—â—es Exposition allegoâ—â—â—all Mercâ—â—y The sence of the vvords of â— Iesus Christ Bretherly re 〈◊〉 Châ—â—sâ—â—â— Mâ— 5. Homil. 16. The prison Doâ—â—â— Genes â— b. â— Math. â— d 25 Helindius Psa â—â—â— â—â— The sence and meâ—ning of the parable Maâ— â—â— â— â—0 The 〈◊〉 â—â—d meaning of the vvords of Saâ—â—t Luke â—1 The place of Sainct Mat. â—â— c 31. Luc. â—â— b. â—0 Dialo 4. Dâ—st 25. ca Qualâ—s Ex puris negatiuâ—â— nihil sequitur Mar 3. d 19 Propositions Eqâ—pollâ—â—is Diâ—ersitie of pardons Sinne against the holy Ghost Against the Crigenisteâ— A temporal eternitie Chriso in Mat. 12. â—omel 42 1. Cor. â—â— 2 〈◊〉 â— Luc 6. c. 23 Genâ—â— â—â— â— 24 Iohn 15 Act. 20 â—â— 20 Preâ—ching to the dead â—ohn 35â— The povver of the keyes Mat. 16 c. 19 18. c. 18 The povver of the keyes the Indulgences for the dead In. 4. Sent. Resâ—erper de mor virt serm Dom. in sexa Betvvene vvhether the soules of purgatory are prented Monkes dead to the vvorld Prouerbe Mortus non mordent The dead do byte The Pope the 〈◊〉 of Saint Peter Absolucion of the quick and the dead The office of a Lieutenant Math â— c. 22 Mat 18. c. â—0 28. d 20 The keyes of Saint Peter the Pope Simon Peter Mat. 16. c. 19 Iohn 1. â—â— 42 The keyes of Symon Iohn 10. â— 7 Luc. 11. g. 52 Purgatery of purses Pagatore The great lockyer The priesthod of the dead The papisticall creame Character indelibilis so Chanes de sacra Corp. Châ—â— The burning of the consience 1. Tâ—â—oth 4. â— 2. The marke of the vvhore Apoc. 13. c. 8 Apoc. 7. â— 4 The example of Fryer Roger Tho. dist â—5 q. 2. dist 20 q. â— ar 3. dist 4â— q. 4. ar 1. The bulles in purgatory The intercessioÌ„ of the Saints for vs. Grego Rat. 〈◊〉 off â—â— 7 Rub. de off Mort. Aug. li. de â—ur pro mor. Agen. 13. q. 2 Fatendum Raâ— dâ—â—â— off Râ—b de off mor. The Pope hath more povvâ—r 〈◊〉 the saâ—â—ts Syllogismâ— The pope is god â—â—â— more then god Antechrist 2. thess. â— 2. â— â— The place of Purgatory Plut. lâ— de faâ—â—â— quâ— vâ—situr in Lunaâ— The keyes
the auncient Priestes of the lawe vnto whome GOD hath forbidden it For if they woulde bée Iewes and followe them in older thinaes they oughte also to followe them in thys or to yéelde a reason wherefore they followe them in one thing and not in an other Hillarius they had rather to followe the Gentyles and Panims in this behalfe For their Ceremonies and superstytions doo bringe vnto them more profite the which they followe notwithstandinge they are nothing worthe as I haue alreadye sayde Wherefore I thincke that they would haue made to others a lawe gathered out of all that whiche was euyll and wycked Theophilus It is then easelye to bée vnderstanded by all those thinges that the prayse that Neomi dyd gyue vnto Ruth sayinge The Lorde deale as kindlye wyth you as ye haue dealte wyth the dead And vnto Booz in lyke manner praysinge hym for that hée hath kepte for the deade that same grace and lyberalytie as he did vnto the liuinge regarding not the Masses prayers songes and sacrifices whiche they haue done for them But the loue and charitie that they haue shewed towardes the parents and friendes of the dead that be liuing Wherefore the holy Scripture declareth what mercy we ought to haue of the dead and what good déedes God requyreth of vs for them The prayers offerings and good deedes that Ruth that good wydowe did make for hir husbande that was dead was that she kept company faith and loyaltie wyth Noemi hir Mother in lawe hir husbandes mother A poore widowe both of husbande and children as shée hirselfe was she comforted hir in hir afflictions and aduersities And nourished cherished loued hir was attendaunt vpon hir in hir olde age as though she had bene hir owne mother In like manner the grace and loue that Booz hath also kept done vnto the sonnes of Noemi as well to those that were dead as to those the be liuing that is that euen as during their life he hath exercised loue and charitie towards them in cherising and comfortinge them the lyke affection hath he kept towardes them after they were deade And when he coulde no more ayde and succour them and that they had no more neede of him hée hath declared his loue that he dyd beare vnto them towardes the wydowes mothers and wiues of whome he hath had pittie and compassion hath hulpen them both in body goods procuring wyth all his power the honour and profite both of the one of the other vntill he did take to wyse that poore widowe Ruth the Moabite which was y graundmother of Dauid and hir remembraunce is celebrated with the same of Booz hir husbande in the gonealogy of Iesus Christe Wherefore we may knowe howe much the woorke bothe of the one of the other hath pleased God what remembraunce we ought to haue of the dead Thomas I doe finde that to bée the best waye to bestowe and giue the almose vnto the poore widowes and fatherlesse children for that is the true Religion then for to take their goodes and bestowe them vppon the dead or to waste and consume them vppon bawdes and harlots and vpon their children in like manner Hillarius I warrant you they will not followe any good example nor the certeine commaundement of God but what do they follow in this matter When I haue wel read ouer and ouer againe all the holy Scripture I doe not finde one worde And the most auncientest that I can finde which did first bringe in those manner of dooings among the Panims was Pluto of whome we will speake off héereafter whome the Docts and the Panims haue made the God of the soules and the king of the dead and of hell After him came Aeneas who did bringe that custome into Italy After Aeneas Romulus and Numa the Kinges of the Romaines afterwardes our Popes who haue contynued augmented and confirmed still more and more those errours and abuses Althoughe that the Panyms hadde yet a certeyne better opynion in the same then our superstitious Papystes hadde For they dyd not make the sacryfices for the deade for the estymation that they hadde that that shoulde serue them for to deliuer them from paines but for to appease them to the ende that their spirites shoulde not hurt them and doe them euill if they had displesed them when they were aliue For Plato himselfe who hath bene the one of the chiefest forgers inuenters of Purgatory witnesseth plainely that the parents friends cānot profit y dead And therfore saith he the parents friends and kinsslolkes ought to admomshe their friends that they do liue well and honestly and to do presently vnto them that good For there to wytte after this life they cannot giue it thē And before the iudgement seat there shall not be any great company of parents friends which shall mainteine and defende and intreate y Iudge and which canne obtaine of him that he wil pardon thée Theophilus I would to God that all our diuines bad no more euill and wicked opinions then that panim touching the dooings of the dead and that they had saide noe sentence lesse to be credited then this Thomas If the panims did not meane y their sacrifices commemoration should profit the dead wherefore did they it then Hillarius It might be that they did thinke that there might retourr◠vnto them some little profit But yet neuerthelesse their cheife intent and purpose was to appease the soules of the dead and to reconcile them vnto them by that meanes to the end they should not hurt them either in their bodies or goods euen as they haue accustomed to celebrate scasts and to do sacrifices vnto the soules of holy men whom they did think to be in heauen with the gods for to haue ayd and solace as Aeneas did vnto his Father Anchises And all that errour procéeded from the false opinion that they had of the soules and for want of knowing their nature and estate therefore they iudged after their owne sence and vnderstanding and not after the word of god As they do also of the bodies thinking at the least the most supersticyous as it hath bene alreadye touched that the soule doth walke a certaine time if their bodyes hath not bad y honor of the burial such as apertameth was meete for them And that the bodies were in daunger of Enchantors and sorcerers which would abuse them thorow their Nycromancic coniuration And the Hebrewe Rabins and doctors of the Iewes and in no lesse dreaming For they say that the dead body is left in the power of the diuell who calleth him selfe Zazell and doe wrest and turne those places of the scripture for to confirme their erroure vnto whom it is said vnto the Serpent Thou shalt eate of the earth all the dayes of thy life And in another place The earth shal be the Serpents meate They woulde conclude