repent but doo stubbrnely vnto the end abyde in theyr sinnes makyng a mocke of the threatnynges of God and of his iudgementes If we be of the numbre of the true repentant synners who dareth contrarye to all the whole scriptures affirm that God will not heare vs Math. 6. If synners may not bee heard why dooeth our sauiour Iesus Christ teache vs to say forgeue vs our trespasses as we forgiue them that trespasse against vs Again if God wil not heare repentant sinners but the saints doo heare them and haue pitie and coÌ„passion on them then are the Sainctes mercyful and God vnmerciful Therfore the Scripture should haue comended and sett foorth the mercyfulnesse of the Saints and not the mercy of God All saincts that be in glory haue ben saued 〈…〉 the mercy of god But let such blasphemie be farre from vs that we shoulde take away mercye from God and attribute it vnto sayntes of whom not as much as one hath bene saued but only through the grace and mercy of God Nowe if we be vnrepentant synners what meruaile is it if we haue no boldnesse at all to call vpon God Ye know that they that are such as they be voyde of a liuely faith in our sauior Iesus Christ so are they most vnworthy that thei shuld be herâ—â— Eutrapelus Verily it semeth vnto me the greatest foly in the world to thinke or imagine that the Saintes are so far different or disagreyng from God that whom he wil not heare because of their vnrepentant heartes them they would not onely heare but also make intercession vnto GOD for theym The iniury that is don by the aduersaries both to god and to his sainctes Who doth not se that so doyng we do great iniurie bothe to God and the Saintes To the Saints because that we iudge them to be such as will heare an vnrepentant sinner when he calleth vppon them make intercession for him And to God The enemies harp stil vpon one string because we shold imagin that he will contrary to his worde admitte any intercessors for suche a sinner Albion Yet they will say still that this is the scripture good heareth not synners Here the holy ghoste maketh no suche distinction as ye make Philalethes I may answer you by the words of saint Augustine August li. 2. contra episto lam parmeniani ca 9. who writeth after this maner Hoc à Domino non est dictuÌ„ sed â—b illo qui oculos corporis iam quidem restitutos habebat sed ei oculi cordis nondum patebant vnde ipsum Dominum adhuc prophetam putabat NaÌ„ eum postea cognituÌ„ del filium adorauit Ipse autem dominus quum in vno templo orarent Pharisaeus publicanus â–ª publicanum confitentem peccata sua magis iustificatum dicit quam Phatisaeum â—actantem merita sua Quanquam enim iustificatus destiterit esse peccator tamen vt iustificaretur peccator orabat peccator confitebatur exauditus iustificatus est vt desinerer esse peccator NoÌ„ vtique desineret esse peccator nisi prius exaudiretur peccator That is to saye This was not spoken of the Lord but of him which had alredy his bodily eies restored Ioan. 9. but the eies of his heart were not yet open and therefore he thought yet of the Lord that he was but a prophete For afterwards Luc 18. knowyng that he was the sonne of God he worshipped him But the Lord hymselfe when tow dyd praye together in one temple A Pharisei and a Publican dooth say that the publican coÌ„fessing his sinnes was more iustified thaÌ„ the pharisey bostyng his merites For although beyng iustified he cessed to be a sinner The example of the publicane yet whiles he was a sinner he dyd pray confesse his synnes that he myghte be iustified and beyng heard he was iustified that he myghte ceasse to bee a synner And truely he should not ceasse to be a synner onelesse he were hearde beyng yet a synner Eutrapelus As farre as wee can gather of the texte that they dooe allege we shall not greatly neede the helpe of this holy father Hovv the place aleageth out of the .9 of Iohn ought to be vnderstanded for let vs only marke the circumstances of the place The phariseys dyd say of Christ This man is not of god for he kepeth not the Sabboth day By which wordes they went about to robbe Christ of the glorie of the miracle that he had wrought in making the blynde man to see and to persuade the people that he was a moste abhominable synner and a despiser of the Lordes holy lawes and ordinaunces The poore sely blynd man hauyng receued such a benefite at Christes handes did all that in him dyd lye to stoppe theyr blasphemous mouthes saieng We know that god heareth not synners that is suche synners as ye wyll make hym for it was not hearde sence the worlde began that any dydde open the eyes of a man that was borne blynde Except this man were of god he could haue done nothyng It is easy now to vnderstand of what kynd of sinners the scripture speaketh there For if those wordes were spoken generally of all sortes of synners what iniurye shold this be both to the worde of god and also to his diuine grace Didymus ObiectioÌ„ If ye will geue me leaue I will bring foorth an obiection wherwith they do meruailously for it is sette out with a similitude taken of the commune vse of men trouble the heades of the symple and ignorant people â— Grounded vpon a similitude Albion We do all geue you good leaue Didymus Who say our galant champions of the Popes clergie dare come to an earthly kyng or prince hauyng any suite vnto hym without mediatours They that haue ought to doo with the prince they wyl come vnto them whom they know to be in most fauor with him and them doo they make their mediatours that they maye haue the better accesse vnto hym and spede in theyr businesse We haue the examples of the same in gods word 1. King 2 for was not Berseebah a mediatrix vnto her sonne Solomon for Adoniah Againe was not Absalon reconciled vnto his father Dauid 2. Sa. 14. by the meanes of Ioab If we may not then come to worldly princes but that we muste haue some to be meanes for vs howe dare we be so bolde beyng synful creatures to appeare before the maiestie of God without mediatours But who should be those mediators but the blessed virgin Mary the holy apostles and martirs of our sauiour Iesus Christe PHILA Answer In deede with this similitude they doo wonderfully dasylle the eies of the simple and vnlearned But I trust that we shall soone ouerthrowe it and so muche the rather because that it hath no fuÌ„dation at all in gods boke Fyrste and formoste are not these the wordes of the Lorde Esay 55. Num vie meae sicut viae
his sonne after him and established Ierusalem Now this is asmuch as if he had saied Therefore God dyd not destroy Abiah his kyngdome and the citie of Hierusalem because that God had promised that he would not take away his mercy from the house of Dauid nor suffer that he should want sede or posteritie or that his kingdom shold vtterly decaye It is then euident and plaine that Abiah was spared for the promise sake that was made vnto Dauid 4. Kin. 19 therfore it must folowe necessarily that Ezechias was also spared for this promise sake and that these sentences or sayenges I will defend this citie for myne own sake and for Dauid my seruauntes sake and I will defende this citie for myn own sake for myn own promisse sake which I made vnto Dauid be equipollent or of one force Secondly thus may the answer be made that God did spare bothe that city realm for his owne sake and for his Christes sake For the Prophetes are wont by a figure called Antonomasia to cal our sauiour Iesu Christ Dauid Antonomasia And the promise wherof we spake before was in very deede completed or fulfylled in Christ Thus dothe the Lord speake in Ezechiell I will sayeth he raise vp a shepeheard ouer them Eze 34. and he shal fede them euen my seruant Dauid he shall fede them he shal be their shepheard And I the Lord will be their God and my seruant Dauid shal be the prince among them I the Lorde haue spoken it Hie. 23. The like place shall ye fynde in Ieremie But none of all the expositors dyd expounde these places otherwyse than of Christ the Gospell of Iohn doothe manifestely declare that these Scriptures oughte to be expounded of Christ Therefore the Lorde spared Hierusalem for the Lorde Iesu Christes sake whome it behoued to be manifested in that citie and his name and doctrine frome thens to bee published throughout all the whole world Therfore Daniell the prophete prayeng vnto the Lorde for the repairing of the citie and of the temple Danie 9. maketh his praier after this sort Heare O our God the prayer of thy seruaunt make thy face to shyne ouer the sanctuarie whiche is destroyed for the lorde sake As yf he shoulde say Oure maners oure life and conuersation did deserue other wyse but yet remembre the lorde thy Christ whome thou hast promysed vnto vs. Esa 2. For by Esaie and Micheas he hadde made this promise It shal be in the laste dayes that the mountayne of the house of the lorde shall bee prepared in the toppe of the mountains and shall bee exalted aboue all the hylles and all nations shall slow vnto it And many people shall go and saye Come and lette vs come vp to the mountaine of the lorde to the house of the God of Iacob and he will teache vs his wais and we wille walke in his pathes for the lawe shall go foorthe of Sion and the woorde of the lorde frome Hierusalem Whenne we doo then by Dauid vnderstande oure sauioure Iesu Christe who in Esaie is of GOD called his seruaunt we brynge no newe exposition nor yet wraste the Scriptures but sette foorthe the playne sense and meanyng of the holy ghoste to the greate commendation of the glorie of oure Sauioure Iesu Christe Albion Obie 16 Iob. â— These woordes shall ye fynde written in Iob Calle nowe yf any wyll answere thee and turne thee to somme of the Sainctes Here are we expressely commaunded in oure troubles and afflictions to turne our selues to the saintes Didymus I thought that there had bene no place in all the whole scriptures so playne for the praying vnto the Sainctes as the sames is Answer The fondnes of the aduersaries in aleaging of the scriptures Philalethes And I thought that the ennemies of the truthe had neuer ben so foolishe as to haue aleaged that place for the maintenaunce and confirmation of their doctrine For there they shoote altogether besydes the cusshion not marking to what ende Eliphas dooth speake those woordes Ye shall therfore vnderstand that Iob didde affirme that plagues and calamities dyd not alwayes happen for synne whiche thynge he proueth by his exaumple The true seÌ„se of the place that they do aleadge out of the .5 of Iob For the Lorde sayth he hath not brought me into this calamitie because of my sinnes but accordyng to his good wil and pleasure This will not his aduersaries admitt and specially Eliphas who goeth aboute to proue that no calamitie hapneth to any man but onely for his sinnes and that no man is punished but onely for his faulte prouyng besydes that all men are synners and that no man is cleane in the syght of God although few do acknowledge the same geuyng in the meane whyle a priuie nippe vnto Iob although he did not acknowledge himself to be a sinner and this was because he vnderstoode not Iobs meaning and therfore they wer taken awaye and cut of in their ignorance That this might be made more plaine and manifest he speaketh vnto Iob after this maner Call any man that is name me any maÌ„ As if he shold say Bring me any man that hath not by his wyckednesse and heynous synnes deserued the calamitie that is com vppon him turne thee to any of them that be called Saintes meanyng that it was impossible for to fynde any in all the whole world which did not deserue by his owne sinnes to haue trouble aduersitie and affliction Albion Obie 17 Hiero. 15. What will ye say to these woordes of Hieremie Though Moses and Samuell stoode before me yet haue I no heart to this people Why say my geÌ„tylmen should Hieremie speake so of the deade excepte be knowe that they made intercession for the lyuyng Philalethes Answer I may a great deale better reason after this maner Sith that neither Moses nor Samuell dyd praye for the people of Israell in that extreme peryll that they were in it appereth that there was then no intercession of the deade For who of all the Sainctes should haue takne thought for the people if Moses didde not Who in this thyng dyd exceede and passe all men whiles he dyd lyue Therefore thus I say I myght make myne argument agaynst you and your gentylmen In the extreeme necessitie of the people Moses made no intercession for theim it is moste lykely then that none at all dyd make intercession for theim The 〈◊〉 mâ—â—â—t of the papists 〈…〉 and beaten 〈◊〉 on â—â—eir heades sithe that Moses dyd passe al men in humanitie gentilnesse and mercy The meanyng of the prophete then was this that God was so offended with the people that he wold in no wise spare them though Moyses and Samuell whose prayers he was wonte to heare aboue all other should make intercession for them The like in a maner haue we in the prophete Ezechiell Ezâ—â—4 where the lorde speaketh on this maner If Noah
¶ A stronge battery against the Idolatrous inuocation of the dead Saintes and against the hauyng or setting vp of Images in the house of prayer or in any other place where there is any paril of Idolatrye made dialogue wise by Iohn Veron Psal â—â— Calle vppon me in the daye of â—hy trouble I wil hear thee Iohn â— I am the way I am the truth I â—m the life no man comes vnto the father but by me ¶ To the righte honorable sir Nicholas Bacon knight Lord keper of the great Seale of Englande and one of the Queenes most honorable priuye Counsayle Iohn Veron wyssheth grace peace of conscience and increase of godlye honour from god the father throughe hys son Iesu Christ oure Lorde SOme be of this opinioÌ„ right honorable sir that those thinges that bee in controuersie betwixt vs the Catholikes are not of so greate weighte and importaunce that wee ought therfore to stirre vp suche tragedies or make so muche a doe syth that they confesse one true lyuinge God with vs and his sonne Iesu Christe The commoÌ„ complaintes of many people do alowe the scriptures of the old and new testament and all the articles of our beleue But yf al thinges be considered a right and wayed with the euen balaunce of gods worde it shal be easie for any man to vnderstande that it is not without a iuste cause that we do bothe dissente from them and aâ—so moste earnestly impugne their pernitious and damnable doctrine and al their abhominable erroures and diuel she opinions For first and foremost They do not confesse god which do not confesse him as he doeth reueale himself in his worde it can not iustly be sayde that they do confesse the onely true liuing â—od sith that they do not confesse him as he doeth setforth and reueale him selfe in his holye and sacred word but do so coÌ„fesse him that thei do make of him a plaine eâ—dole Herin then do we differ from them that we do acknowledge and confesse him as he doeth reueale himself vnto v in his holy sacred word where he fetteth forth him self vnto vs an omnisufficient god and in whom only we ought to seke all maner of thinges that are necessarye both for our bodyes and soules Psa 89 The heauens are thine say the scriptures the earth also is thine Psal cxlv thou haste layed the foundacion of the world and all that therein is How god reueleth hymself in his word all the kingedomes of the earth are thine And thy kingome is an euerlastinge kingdome and thy dominion endureth throughout all ages Thou fittest on the rounde bale or circle of the earthe and the inhabitauntes of it are as Locustes in thy sight Thou makest to stande and doest putte to flight And onlesse thou kepest the citye hâ— watcheth in vaine that doth kepe it Al counsayles and helpes are from thee But do not ouâ— aduersaries most sacrilegiouslye The sacrilege of the aduersaries robbing goâ— of his glorye attribute al those thinges to hyâ— dead creatures I mean to those that be already departed out of this worlde what haue they â—eft vnto god what help what aid and succour that they haue nede of doe they not craue at the deade handes The Frenche men in their perillous warres and battayles do rather cal vpon Saint Denyle than vpon the mightye Ieâ—ouâ—h the lorde god of hoostes Saint denis of Fraunce Saint George of England S. Andrew of Scottland Saint Iames of Callycia The Englysh men had in stede of god Mars whom the heathen worshipped for the god of Battailes that lustre knight Saint George of Cappadocia The Scotes their Saint Andrew The Spaniardes and Gallycians haue yet at this houre their holy Saint Iames whom they do rather call vpon then vppon the eternall and euerlyuing god in their moste perillous affayres They that trauaile by the Sea haue in stede of Castor and Pollux their Saint Nicholas The gods of idolatrous Marinets vnto whome they ioygne fo a felowe helper that â—itle pretye one Sainct Christophore who by their description maye bee likened vnto that mounstruous Poliphemus which Virgill doeth speake of Do they not worshippe Saint Valesiane as they do communely call him as the heathen had in times paste woorshipped their Acolus Valesian whom Iupiter had appointed to be king ruler of stormes and tempestes For they persuade them selues Acolus that if they do diligently worship him he wil kepe of the haile from their corne and from al other fruites of the earthe he will cease the ragiouse windes and appease the tempestes Some other do attribute this office vnto Iohn and Paul Iohn Paul Saint Agathe must se their houses to be preserued froÌ„ fire Saint Agathe And therfore when there is any ieopardy of fire they do rather call vpon her than vpon him that hath all his creatures at his beck and commaundement But bicause she is a woman and therefore frayle and timorous Saint Florinian they haue associated vnto her saint Florinian who being in complet harneyse doeth hold a paile for to cast water vpon the fier for to quenche the burninge Sebastian Rocke do heale the pesstilence and potches when god doeth by his righteous iudgement punish the world with pesstilence haue they not their Saint Sebastian And when they be smytteÌ„ with botches sores and boyles haue they not their Saint Rocke more trust haue they in those dead creatures of whoÌ„ we do doubt whether they be in heauen or not than they haue in the liuyng god the onâ—ly autour of al health both of body soule in their agues and seuers saint Petronille Petronille Peters daughter Peters daughter must be their phisition And no maruâ—â—le For â–ª when our Sauiour Iesus Christ did heale her grand dame she creping in vnawares did learne the arte of medicin Appoleyne Otilia Touthlesse Appoleyne must helpe the touth ache â–ª as blynd Otilia bearinge her eyes vpon her booke being sallen out of her head â–ª must help sore eyes To be short they haue for all the partes of the body certain appointed Saints as they haue for euery kind of cattel Which thing they would not do if they did confesse and acknowledge god as he doth reueale himself in the scriptures For Deut. vi there we learn that the Lord our god is one God That he doth al things with his diuine prouideÌ„ce and that as all thinges are of him by him and in him so he is the onely autour of lyfe and deathe of rychesse and pouerty of wisedome and foolyshnes of health and sickenes And sith that we are bothe hys creatures and seruauntes and do owe our selues whollye both body soule vnto him How god ought to bee confessed is it not against al reason that we should turne out selues from the creatour vnto the creatures The heathen do the same But we ought to be
Christians and to cleaue onelye to Christe and by him to be made one with the father If the saintes do all thinges yf they haue the gouernement tuition defense protection of cities and townes if the standing manfullye in battaile the rennyng awaye and victory if the curinge of diseases if the benefit of health be in their haÌ„ds if they haue power ouer the windes stormes tempestes if they possesse al the lymmes of a mannes body what doth god in the meane while Where is his diuyne prouidence will they say that god being wearye doeth coÌ„mit the gouernement of his creatures vnto other But no suche infirmities is god subiect vnto It is euident and plaâ—ne then right honorable sir that they doe make of him a plaine Idole yea they make of him no god at all For take his diuine prouideÌ„ce away or make him subiect to any infirmities and then he is no god It is farre otherwise with vs. Howe the faithful do confesse god For beinge instructed by the scriptures and worde of god we do wholly depend vpon his fatherly prouidence vsing with most harty thankefulnes all those lawful meanes that he hath appointed and ordeyned for vs and so gyue him onelye the whole glorye of the gouernement of al thinges for the commoditye and profit of his chosen and electe people A denial of god Again is not this a denial of god to go aboute to worshippe and serue him otherwise then he himself doeth appoint and prescribe in his holy and sacred word Socrates being an heathen Socrates doeth plainlye say that in religion it is requirâ—d that euery god be worshipped after his own wil and not after the wil of his worshippers If this did take place in false religioÌ„ howe muche more ought it to take place in true religion I meane in that religion that god hath set fourth vnto vs by his eternal and euerlasting wisedome Deut. xii These are his wordes Ye shal not do euery man that thing that seemeth vnto you best I am the Lorde my god that thing only that I commaunde thee se that thou doest it add nothing vnto it and minish nothing from it Again Math xv They worship me in vaine teaching the doctrines and preceptes of men But howe wel these thinges haue bene and are obserued of our frends the catholikes let your honour be iudge Those wayes that god wil be worshipped and serued they haue stoutly contemned chose eueri day straunge kindes of worshipping and seruice which the Lord doeth not once mencion of in the scriptures This then is an other differeÌ„ce betwixt them and vs How the godâ—y do worship god that we will haue god to be honoured worshipped and serued accordinge to his worde and as he himselfe doeth appointe and prescribe in his sacred scriptures submitting our selues wholy our wit and reason al the wisdome that can be in vs vnto his vnsercheable wisdome and coÌ„tenting our selues with that fourme and maner of religyon that he hath sett fourthe vnto vs by his sonne Iesu Christ whom he hath appointed by his holy spirit to be the only teacher scholemaster of his church Mat. xvii we do study labour to the vttermost of our power with al due submission and obedience to kepe our selues within the limites and boundes of his prescribed rules Canons hauing alwayes this saying of Samuell before our eyes Samu. xv Hath the lord as great pleasure in burnt offeringes and sacrifices as when the voice of the Lord is obeyed Behold to obeye is bâ—â—ter then sacrifice and to hearken is better then the fatt of Rammes Mat xv Whereas they neglect nge gâ—des commaundementes that so they may set vp their owne traditions and going about moste vngodlye to sett the wisedome of god to schoole do bring in all maner of trâ—ssh trâ—ssh shippes full of dombe and beggerly ceremonies whiche they vrge with fire and sworde Wherin doeth consisterie outwarde worshipping of god and maintain them with al kinde oâ— cruel tâ—râ—â—nye Whereby the externe and outward worshippinge of god whiche consisteth in the preaching of the doctrine and in the right and due ministration of the sacramentes accordinge to the institution and ordeynaunce of our sauiour Iesu Christe and in the faythful prayers of the church is clen abolyshed and put downe Read the ouerthrow of the iustification of workes for that Howe peryllous a thinge it is to attempte to serue god otherwise than he himself doth appointe it is easye to see in the x. Chapyt of Leuiticus and in the ij booke of Samuel and syxt chapt and in the .i. boke of Cronicles xiii chapyter well this is most sure and certain that they do prefarre their wisedome before the wisdome of god â–ª which is a playne denial of god For yf he be not of a perfect wysdome he is no god Againe this that they do is a manifest forsaking of the couenaunt of the lorde A forsaking of the couenaunte of god Howe the aduersaries do coÌ„fesse christ Math. viii What it is to confesse Christe aright as it may be proued by manye places of the scryptures but specially by the xxij chap. of Ieremy the Prophete But now let vs come to their confession of our sauyour Iesu Christ How do they confesse him I pray you Euen as the vnclean spirytes did who euery where acknowledged him to be the sonn of god the sonne of the highest To confesse Christe a right then it is not onely to confesse him to be true and naturall god equall and of one substaunce with the father and to be true natural man equal and of one substaunce with vs beyng in al thinges lyke vnto his bretherne synne only excepted But to confesse and acknowledge him to be an omnisufficyent and moste perfect Sauiour of all those that beleaue in hys name and put their whole trust in the merytes of his death passion and bloudsheddinge and to be the onely mediatour betwixt God and men For therefore did he come Wherfore Christ came into the flesh Ioa. iii. Tâ—moth i Hel iu. vii Actes iiii and did take vpoÌ„ him our fraile nature that destroiyng the works of the diuel he should saue sinners most perfectly and to the vttermost I meane as manye as come vnto God by him so that there is none other name vnder heauen geuen vnto men wherin we muste be saued but the name of our sauiour Iesu Christe This therefore is oure confession and beleue that by the merites onelye of the death passion and bloodshedding of oure sauiour Iesu Christe being apprehended and taken holde vpon by faythe we obteyne full saluation forgeuenes of our synnes and deliueraunce from eternal and euerlasting damnation Whefore we do attryhute vnto him the whole glorye of the saluation of mankinde acknoweledgynge hym to be oure onelye mediatoure aduocate and intercessour accordinge to these scriptures I am the waye the trueth and the life â–ª Iohn
These thyngs haue been doone among the heathen whose goddes were no gods but deuyls and that by the permission and suffrance of God because of their horrible idolatry that they dyd most shamefully wallow in But it foloweth not that the lyke may be done among the people of God Philalethes Answer It is moste manyfeste and playne that God doth permit and suffer Sathan to worke suche thynges among his people For dothe not God geue vnto false Prophetes power to worke miracles Deute 19. that so he may try and proue his people whether their loue him or not And whether they will stedfastly cleaue vnto his lawes And least it shold be said that this was don amoÌ„g the Iewes but that it is otherwise in the churche of Christ we haue an excellent prophecie of the holy apostle wher he saith on this maner 2. Thes 2 Than shall the wycked man be reuealed whom the Lord shall consume with the spirite of his mouth and shal abolishe with the bryghtnesse of his coÌ„ming eueÌ„ him whose coÌ„miÌ„g is by the woorkyng of Sathan with all power and signes and lying wonders And in all deceauablenesse of vnrightuousnesse emong theim that perishe because they receaued not the loue of the truthe that they myght bee saued And therfore god shal send them strong delusion that they should beleue lyes that all they might be damned whiche beleued not the truth but had pleasure in vnrightuousnesse Do we not lerne by these words of thapostle that in the later days there shall be wonders and signes in the kingdome of Antichriste And doubtlesse There bee vvonders and signes in the kingdome of Antichrist as they are by the rightous iudgement of God ordeined for to deceiue them that haue a delight in vnrightuousnesse so doo they also take away sicknesses and diseases that the vngodly contemners of the truth may the more be blynded and confirmed in their error Are not also these Christes wordes Many shall say to me in that day Lorde haue we not by thy name prophecied he we not by thy name cast out deuils and doone or wrought great miracles And theÌ„ will I confesse to them I neuer knew you Depart ye from me ye workers of iniquitie Mat. 24. And in an other place There saith he shall arise false Christes and false prophetes and shal shewe great signes and wonders so that if it were possible they shoulde deceaue the very elect It doeth sufficiently appeare by this that many times it cometh to passe not onely among the heatheÌ„ and Iewes but also in the chirche of God that by the inuocation of them that are no Goddes not a fewe haue ben and are healed Yet no man ought thervppon to conclude that it is laufull in the time of trouble to call vpon any other than vppon the true lyuyng God all creatures be they neuer so excellent beyng layde asyde Similitude Procreation of children doth not excuse vvhooredome no more doth the vvorking of miracles excuse the idolatrous inuocatioÌ„ of Saincts Eutrepelus I am of this opinion that miracles doo no more excuse the inuocation and worshippyng of Saintes than the conception gettyng or procreation of children can excuse adulterie whoredome although it be a miracle that the child is conceiued in the mothers woÌ„be that there it is norished and fed and at lengthe in his due tyme brought forth into the worlde and suche a myracle as can onely be doone and wrought by the diuine vertue and power of God Likewise he that stealeth bread or meat if he do eate it he shal bothe take away his hunger and also feede his bodye though this vertue and power to feede the body doeth onely perteyne to God Shall we therfore excuse whooredom adulterie and theft Didymus No maÌ„ I trow will be of that mynde Eutrapelus Howe can then the inuocation of Sainces which the whole scripture dooeth disauouche be excused by shewyng or workyng of myracles Therfore when thei say why should we not call vpon the Saintes sithe that many as we se dayly by experieÌ„ce haue ben bothe healed and also deliuered from the perills and dangers that they were in by that meane It is euen as if the horemoÌ„ger shold say Why shuld I not cleaue vnto a harlot sith the I do aswell get childreÌ„ of her as of a laufull wife or as if that these shuld likewise say Why should I toyle or labor sith that by stealyng I can helpe my necessitie nede As then it is not laufull for any man to seke to haue childreÌ„ by adultery and whoredom although meÌ„ may haue issu that way nor yet by pickyng stealing to helpe the necessities of his body althogh many do lyue by theft but it is the part of an honest maÌ„ to seke to haue issue by honest matrimonie wedlock by due labor to get his liuing so it is the dutie of a true christeÌ„ maÌ„ The abolishing of the similitude in what trouble peril or daÌ„ger so euer he be to seke for help deliueraÌ„ce not by the vnlauful calling vpon the dead Saints althogh many haue receaued their helth by it but by the faithful inuocation only of the true lyuing eternall god And as an honest man had lieffer to bee withoute childreÌ„ than to get them in aduoutrie whoredome Similitude and to byte his bread verye nere rather than to lyue by thefte and other vnlaufull meanes so he that feareth God vnfeignedly hath lieffer to suffer any kynde of affliction than to seke for healpe and deliuerance by the forbidden inuocatioÌ„ of dead creatures Albion Wel I graunt that the dead Sainctes ought not to bee called vppon as gods I meane that they ought not to be called vpon as thoughe they their selues should help vs A good Chift of the papistes â–ª in our troubles and aduersities but that wee ought to call vpon them as beyng our mediators aduocates and intercessors which doo make intercession vnto God for vs. Philalethes Where I pray you brother Albion haue ye learned this diuinitie So are we wont always to excuse the want or lacke of faith Whâ— doo we not rather praye vnto God out heauenly Father sith that in so many places he wil haue vs so for to doo Albion Iohn 9. Obie 4. Because we are sinners And ye know what the scripture saith Peccatores noÌ„ andâ—r Deus God heareth not synners but them that are obedient to his will Philalethes That we are sinners we haue that coÌ„mune with al mortall men For Answer 8 King â— 1 Iohn 1. A difference betâ—ixt sinners there is no man that synneth not And if we shold say We haue no sin we deceaue our selues and the truthe is not in vs. But this difference dothe the scriptures puâ—fe betwixte synners that some are always ready to â—â—pâ—nt whensoeuer they be eyther by the outwarde preachyng of Gods word or by the inwarde motion of the holy ghost moued therto and some agayne wyll neuer
Apostle Saint Andrew hadde preached And as touching the miracles wonders that he doth speake of who doth not see that thin good man hauyng forgotten hym selfe dyd attribute the same vnto the dead bones of the Saints which the true seruantes of god being aliue wold neuer haue suffred to be attributed vnto them Neither ought his examples to in due vs any thing For in receiuing or settyng out religion The facte of a priuate man in maters of religion proueth nothing the priuate facte or deede of men proueth nothyng unlesse it be manifest that it is wel done But that only is wel done which is boone by the auctoritie of the scriptures and not against the law of God Now if we shold reade the whole Bible ouer and call to remembraunce all the examples of the true and faithfull seruauntes of God mentioned of in the scriptures A poore helpe in tyme is muche vvaith we shall not fynde there one onely iote or syllable of the gatheryng translatyng or honoring of the relikes of the Sainctes DIDYMVS It semeth that ye do now condemne Constantine and Archadius and those godly byshops with Helenâ— the mother of Constantine the greate whose examples Hierome dooth bring foorth for the probatioÌ„ of his doctrine Philalethes It foloweth not because I do disalow their fact in this point that therfore I do vtterly condemne them or laye any sacriledge to their charge The holy Apostle doth write after this maner of his contreymen the Iewes Rom. 9. I beare them recorde that they haue a zeale of God but not accordynge to knowledge And I doo not doubt but that they dyd of a zeale that which they dyd but in the meane whyle they dyd minister a great occasion of stumblyng to theym that came after Whereby it foloweth that they synned greuously againste the Lorde 1 Ch. ca 17 The holye scripture doothe saye thus of Iosaphat And the Lorde was with Iosaphat because that he walked in the first wayes of Dauid his father and soughte not Baalim but sought the Lord GOD of his father and walked in his commandementes and not after the trade of Israell Agayne 1 Cht 20. he walked in the way of Asa his father and departed not there from doyng that which was right in the sight of God Howbeit the hye places were not taken away For the people had noy yet prepared theyr heartes vnto the god of their fathers Who wold vtterly condemne this holy prince for that error or lay any sacrilege to his charge But who would againe allowe that whiche he dyd So we ought not by and by to condemne those godlye princis Constantine and Archadius ConstaÌ„tine Arcâ—â—dius with the byshops muche lesse to laye sacrilege to their charge whom we beleue to be in blessedfulnes with their head and kyng our sauiour Iesu Christ Yet in the meane while we may not alowe that fact of theyrs for asmuche as it was withoute any warrant or example of the scriptures Gedeon Gedeon emong the Iudges of Israell was coumpted most vpright and moste godly and yet being caried away with to greate a zeale towarde religion he sinned moste greuouslye againste the Lorde his God For hauing gathered together of the pray of the ennemies earerynges and other lyke iewelles of golde he dyd make vnto hymselfe an Ephod VVould god al kinâ—e prinâ—es that in profeâ— Christe vvoulde maâ— this history not for to set vp a newe religion 〈◊〉 straunge worshipping but for a memoriall of the greate victorye that god had geuen him against his enemies At the first it did not seme to be any great offence but at length by the reason of it great Idolatry was coÌ„mitted in the lande as the holy scripture doth testify saiyng And all Israell wente a whoring after it in Ophra which was the destruction of Gedeon his house yf Gedeon hadde bene wyse he should haue asked councell of goddes worde and not folowed his good intente Yf those godly bishops emperours that Hierome doth speake of had asked couÌ„cell of the scriptures and had bene ruled by them they would not haue opened the sepulchres or graues of the dead nor yet set forth their bones to be worshipped For vnto whom of the Saintes either in the new or in the olde Testament was euer this done Eutra Yf men would haue conteÌ„ted them selues with the same rule that God hath prescribed vnto vs in his worde and wyth the laudable examples of the same such inconueniences would not haue groweÌ„ in the chirch nor yet could such abhominable idolatry haue takeÌ„ place amoÌ„g christen meÌ„ as we se now to reigne almost in al places Ph This shal wee fynde written of Moises Den. 34. The historie of the death and buryeng of Moses So Moyses the seruant of the lord died there in the lande of Moab according to the worde of the lorde and he buried him in a valley in the lande of Moab ouer against Beth-peor but no man knoweth os his sepulchre vnto this daye Yf the taking vp translating of dead mennes bodies had bene expedient for the glory of God for the saluatioÌ„ of men verely the lord wold not haue hidden such pretious relikes of his well beloued and faithfull seruant For without all controuersye Moses was the chiefest amonge all the prophetes of whoÌ„ we do rede after this manner Nume 12 Yf there bee a prophete of the lord among you I will be knowen to him by a vision will speake vnto him by dreame My seruant Moses is not so who is faithfull in all mine house Vnto hym will I speake mouth to mouth and by vision and not in darke woordes but he shal see the similitude of the lorde Thys place doth the holye Apostle aleadge in his epistle to the Hebrues And yet for all this Moises beynge suche a man is neyther translated nor layed vp in a golden or syluer shrine ther is no chapel nor church builded for him he is not caried about in processioÌ„ among a sorte of superstitious menne Ther were some at that time that would gladly haue doone it and woulde haue spared no cost at all Do we not rede in the Apochryphes that ther was a strife betwixt the aungelles and the diuel about the body of Moses whereof Iude maketh mention in his Epistle And doubtles Iudes pâ—stle this was because that the diuel would kepe aboue the grounde the body of the faithful seruant of god and bring it foorth vnto superstitious men for to be worshipped â–ª which thinge the good angels perceauing what abhominable idolatrye would haue risen thervpon would in no wise suffer hauing a respect vnto the glory of God and to mens saluation which next vnto gods glorye they do seeke aboue al thyngs Albion Do we not reede in the first boke of Moses that the Israelites did enbaâ—â— the bodye of Ioseph did put it vp in a cheste in Egipt This I am sure is an exaumple of
yf he had bene crucified among you I am sure that Paule dyd all these thinges with the pencell of his tongue and with the liuely preachynge of the gospell But these good fellowes because they will not be troubled wyth to much preachyng Thâ—â— preachers of 〈◊〉 pope do appoint mete vicars vnder them nor break their braines about the study of the scriptures nor yet take to muche payne in teachyng of the people in exhorting and comforting the faithfull congregation that so they might liue at ease and in continuall idlenesse they haue appoincted vnto vs meete vicares for to supply their roumes and to preache vnto the people for theym that is dumme ymages domme stockes and stones whiche haue mouthes and speske not which haue eyes and see not whiche haue eares and heare not c. And truely we are worthy of such preachers For we can not abyde the liuely voyce of the faithfull ministers of God when they doo sharpely rebuke our synnes whenne they doo liuely disclose and bryng to lyght our hypocrisie and dissimulation The righteous iudgement of God or when they do ernestyle exhorte vs to repentance and amendment of lyfe And therfore by the righteouse iudgemente of God suche preachers are appointed vnto vs Fonde obiections of the papistâ— as will suffer vs to runne headlong into euerlasting perdition bothe of body and soule Dydimus I haue heard some of them say that the holy euangelist Saint Luke dyd paynte first the image of the virgine Mary and did set it forth with liuely colours And also that Nichodemus who came vnto our sauiour Iesu Christ by night hadde the image of Christ being crucified wherof father Athanasius maketh mention describyng the miracle that was wrought aboute it in Berythus which is a famoê° citye of Phenicia Doo wee not reade that Abagarus the kinge of Edessenes dyd send our sauiour Iesu Christ a painter for to bring his ymage vnto hym And when he could not do it because of the exceadynge great brightnessâ— of hys face Christ him selfe toke his cloth that he would haue painted him on and dyd wipe his face with it and so gaue him in the cloth a lyuely ymage or resemblaÌ„ce of his face sending it to Abaâ—arus who was desirous of it The like saye they did happen vnto the Veronike whenne she dyd retche her fyne cloute vnto oure sauiour Iesu Christ to drie his face with al that did runne ful of sweate Aunsvver to these fondâ— obiectiâ—ns Saint Luke phiâ—icioÌ„ and not a painter Eutrape By my brother Philalethes leaue I thinke I am able to answere to al these obiections First and foremost touching the holy euangelist saint Luke we rede no where that euer he was a paynter we rede in deede that he was a phisicion by his science VVhy Luke â—s called a 〈◊〉 paynter of â—ome and that afterwards he was of god called to be a phisicion of the soules as he hadde bene afore the phisicion of the bodye But these beastes doo not make that he is called a painter because of the playnesse of his style and also because that of all to her euangelistes he did sette fourthe most liuely the stronge faith humilitye and lowlynesse and all oher heauely vertues of the blessed virgin Mary whereof it did come to passe that some did affirme that Luke paynted out the virgin Mary And as for the crosse and crucifix of Berythus wherof Nychodemus is a witnesse and Athanasius the writer we do by good ryght reiect the whole history as most lying and fabulouse and whiche is most falsely fathered vpon the the holy father Athanasius which thing any man that is of any sound iudgement may easelye smell out And verely I meruaile that they be nothing ashamed to adscribe these vayne trifles wh ch are without witte and learnyng vnto suche godly auncient fathers The vanity â—f the enemies in aâ—â—giâ—g thei câ—re not vvhat The like may we say of the history of Abagarus and of the Veronike for if any such thing had bene done and wroughte the holy euangelistes woulde not haue passed it ouer sithe that they did moste diligently set forthe thinges of smaller importaunce They did describe the messages of priuate personnes vnto Chryste and should they haue holden their peace of the Ambassades of kynges They did diligently write of the hemme of Christes garment and of the touchyng of it and what miracle was theÌ„ wrought Math. â— Mar. â— Lu. 8. by the vertue that proceded from Chryste but not one word did they speak of the napkin nor of this meruelous image of Christes face Therfore such vayne fonde histories in these highe pointes of oure religion ought in no wise to take place Dydimus Sythe that our brother Philalethes and our brother Albion do geue vs leaue I will vtter forth all that I haue heard I was not long sens in a place where we fel into disputatioÌ„ coÌ„cernyng images when I did aleadge the lawe of god which did expressely forbid images whiche is Thou shalte not make to thy selfe any grauen ymage Exod. 20 nor anye lykenesse of any thinge that is in heauen aboue or in the erth beneth or in the water vnder the erth thou shalt not bowe doun to them nor worshyp them Agayn Take heede to your selues For ye sawe no ymage in the day Deut. 4. that the lorde spake vnto you in Horeb oute of the myddes of the fyer that you corrupte not your selues or make you a grauen image or representation of any fygure Whether it bee the lykenesse of male and female The lykenesse of anye beaste that is on the earthe or the lykenesse of anye feathered foule that flieth in the ayre Or the lykenesse of any thynge that crepeth on the erth or the lykenesse of any fysh that is in the waters beneth the earthe c. Aunswer was made me Obiec 29 that god didde also commaund to make Cherubin oxen lions lilies roses and other lyke as we see to haue beene done in the tabernacle of Moyses and in the temple of Salomon And that Moyses also dydde sette vppe the brasen Serpente and Iosuah a stone vnto the Lorde Whereby they doo gather Num. 21 â–ª that the lawe dothe not forbydde all maner of ymages and that therfore their ymages are laufull Obiec 31 Agayne Althoughe it was not laufull in the olde time for to expresse god with an ymage because that he was not yet sene in an humayne forme or shape yet sythe beyng incarnated he was made like vnto men in all thynges synne onelye excepted it is laufull for to haue an image of him These dyd seme vnto me verye hard obiections therfore I would fayn be better instructed by you that I maye be the more able to aunswer them an other tyme. Eutrape Answer to the 31. obiection We graunt that the lawe doth not forbydde all maner of signes And we doo not chiefely speake against those that stande vppe for to be
ymages Scarcelye one halfepeny is geuen to Christ beyng an hungerd in his poore lymmes but men can will fynd in their hartes to geue whole hundreths of crounes towardes the setting vp and trimmyng of images DYDIMVS Oh preposterous deuotion I knowe a churche where the roode and roode lofte did coste eleuen score poundes Philalethes But yf they had bestowed but halfe that money vppon the poore of their parishe in the time of the great dearth that was then or there about they wold haue thought them selues vndoone Lette them reade Clemens fyft booke which they say he didde write to Iames the brother of the lord Yf ye will saith he worship truely the ymage of the lord we shewe that vnto you Hovv vve may hoâ—â— the ymage of god a right which is true do good vnto maÌ„ which is made after the ymage of God honour and reuerence hym feede hym whenne he is an hungered geue hym drynke when he is a thyrste clothe hym being naked harboure him beyng harbourlesse visite him whenne he is sicke aâ—â—n prison and minister vnto hym thâ—â—e thynges that he hath neede of It foloweth what honoring of god is this to runne agaddyng to wooden and stonye ymages and to worship insensible and lyuelesse ydoles and in the meane whyle to dispise man in whome is the image of god Vnderstand therfore that this is the persuasioÌ„ of the serpent that lyeth hidde within who persuadeth you that ye shall seeme godlye when ye doo honour and worship vnsensible idoles adn that ye shall not seeme vngodlye when ye hurte the sensible and reasonable creatures Eutr Who hearing and markyng all these thinges and waying the harmes that come by images would not be at defyaunce with them Euerye man I trowe But yet this is not all For what hurt and losse hath all Christendome receaued by the occasion of ymages For as the ymages whyche Salomon didde in his olde age erecte and sette vppe were the cause of the schisme and deuision that was after his deathe in Israell I meane that at one clap Images causes of diuision in the common vvelthe of Israell and also in the empire whole ten tribes didde fall away from the house of Dauid and did chose vnto theimselues a kyng Hieroboam the Ephraimite who settynge vp the golden calues in Dan and Bethel caused all Israell to committe moste detestable ydolatrie wherof vtter destruction of bothe the realmes did ensue and folowe so the contention that dyd ryse about images betwixt the east and west churches and the damnable stoutenesse of the byshop of Rome with his adherentes in mainteinyng and defendyng not onely the ymages but also the ydolatrous woorshyppyng of theym dydde breede a very hurtefull diuysion in the Empire whereby all Christendome was wonderfully weakened For after that Rauenna with rest of Italye and all Fraunce with Germanie were by the subtile and wylye meanes of the byshoppe of Rome reuolted and fallen away from the Emperor of Constantinople The Sarasens and Mahometistes did ware wonderfully strong and at lengthe didde meruaylously preuayle For they subdewed myghtye peoples Realmes Cities defacyng and puttynge downe euery where the trewe religion of Christe The mischiefe that the contention aboute the ymageâ— did breede and settyng vppe the Mahometishe religion This was the goodly fruite of the settynge vppe of ymages of the mainteynyng of the ydolatrous woorshyppynge of theym and of the contention that dyd ryse aboute thym whyles the one dyd affirme accordynge to the scriptures that ymages ought in no wyse to bee hadde and the other agaynste the expresse worde of God and commaundement that they ought not onely to bee hadde but also to bee woorshypped whereof such an enuye and hatered dydde ryse betwyxte theym that they woulde in no wyse healpe ayde and succoure one an other agaynst the commune enemie beyng in this poynt mooste lyke vnto Iuda and Israell whyche after their dyuision whyche chaunced by reason of Idolles neuer loued or trusted one an other seekyng the frendshyppe and amitie of forayne kynges and princes nowe of the Assyrians nowe of the Babylonians now otherwhyles of the Egyptians that so they myghte the sooner destroye one an other till at length by the righteous iudgemente of God they were bothe delyuered vp into the handes of theyr ennemyes Dydimus I woulde fayn heare the whole hystorie if it were not tedious vnto you EVTRAPELVS The hystorie is very long and therefore I wyll hereafter sende it vnto you by writyng Dydimus I holde my selfe well contente with it and specially sythe that bothe oure brother Philalethes and you haue so welle satisfied our mindes in this matter Albion In deede I was neuer better satisfied in this poynt thatn I am now I thanke God moste hartily for it Fyrst and formost we haue learned that God onely oughte to bee called vppon and prayed vnto â—he concluâ—on of the â—hole boke And that therefore they that in theyr necessities doo by prayer flye vnto dead creatures do robbe God of his glorie and doo commytte moste damnable sacriledge Whyche thynge was sufficientely proued by manyfest textes of the scriptures and by strong authorities of the ancient fathers of the primitiue Churches all the obiections that the aduersaries can make beyng mightily aunswered and confuted Secondly ye haue playnely shewed vnto vs that we ought to acknowledge none other mediatour betwixt god man but oure Sauiour Iesus Christe onelye whome the Scriptures doo appoyncte vnto vs for the omnisufficient sauiour of mankynde and for our onely intercessoure aduocate and mediatour makyng no mention at all of the intercession or mediation of the deade Sainctes whiche thyng the Holy ghoste woulde not haue omitted yf the dead Sainctes or the Saintes departed out of this world hadde been eyther appoyncted or allowed of god to be intercessors vnto hym for vs. The textes of the scriptures and the authorities of the ancient writers by you alleadged are so many are so myghtie stronge that the enemies of the truth may be ashamed to maintain styll theyr grosse and idolatrous opinion Thirdely it hathe been declared that as the sayntes that bee already in glorie with God oughte not to bee called vpon nor to be taken for oure mediatours so no godly honour ought to be geuen vnto them forasmuche as it is a seruice whyche is due onely vnto God Where ye hadde an occasion to shewe howe many ways the trewe and faythfull seruauntes of God beynge departed hence in the faith of his sonne Iesu Christe maye bee honoured and that the greatest honour that we canne do vnto them is to obey their godly and sounde doctrine wherby they haue instructed vs in the trewe relygyon and worshipping of the true onelye god and also to folowe their faith and other heauenly vertues wherby they did gloryfie God whiles they lyued here in this worlde This also was doone by the infallible worde of God and testimonies of the holy Doctors of the true Catholike church all the obiections of the aduersaries beyng quite ouerthrowen by the same Laste of all ye haue proued that no fygure ymage or lykenesse of God nor of his sonne Iesu Christe nor of the Holy ghoste nor yet of the saintes oughte to bee hadde in the house of prayer or in any other place where so euer there is any perille of idolatrie And that there can be no vse of theym in the Oratories or prayeng places of the Christians but rather that they doo moste hurte where soeuer they be vsed and kepte Ye haue shewed by the waye what is the true Crosse that we ought to delyte and haue a pleasure in and that as for the materiall crosses they doo more hurt than good and that therfore for auoiding of offences they ought to be taken away These thynges haue beene so substantiallye done that I holde my selfe satisfyed in all poyntes and I do gene God moste hartye thankes that wee haue so well spent this day Dydimus In dede this day was frutefully spent Laude and praise be vnto god therfore for euer and euer EVTRAPE Amen FINIS ¶ IMPRINTED AT London by Henry Sutton for Thomas â—acket Ther. daye of Marche In the yere of our Lorde God 1561.