Ministers to the whole Church of England And if some Communicants do sit all the time of prayer and after fall downe on their knees when the bread and wine is offered them such Communicants would be taught told that as in this their Kneeling they do that which both the lawes of our Church doth require and also pleaseth God so their not Kneling all the time of praier is a most euident argument how they neither approch vnto the Supper of the Lord with such preparation as is requisite nor being come doe be haue themselues as they should For sure I am and you cannot denie if aduisedly you mark the order of our Communion booke that albeit the Minister is directed somtimes to Kneele sometimes to Stand and neuer to Sit yet the people are by the said booke to Sit neuer but alwayes to Kneele from the first to the last THE EIGHT OBIECTION S. IT is vrged being an humane inuention aboue the commandement of God R. Our Kneeling in the receiuing of the Lords Supper is not an inuention proceeding meerly from the wit inuention of man but as afore hath beene said is so from man as withall it is the inuention and institution of God Quaeritar saith master Caluin writing about Kneeling at solemne praiers and may as well be referred to Kneeling at the solemne receiuing of the supper of the Lord it is demanded whether it be a tradition of man which euery man may lawfully refuse or neglect Now marke his answere I say saith he that it is so of man as it is also of God It is of God in respect that it is a part of that comelinesse the care and keeping whereof is commanded vnto vs by the Apostle It is of man in regard that it specially betokeneth that which had in generalitie rather beene pointed to then declared So Caluin And this the Church both lawfully may and commendably doth vrge and call for at our hands S. It is vrged aboue the commandement of God Ergo Math. 15. 3 4 5. 6. R. How proue you the Antecedent S. I proue it thus The Minister is to bee suspended for giuing the bread and wine to a communicant not Kneeling but not for giuing them to a Communicant that neither can nor will examine himselfe before he eateth and drinketh at the Lords table Ergo. R. Your Antecedent is true in part and in part not so True it is that the Minister is to bee suspended for giuing the bread and wine to a Communicant that can and wil not kneele and his punishment is deserued For vnworthie is he to minister that refuseth to obserue the orders of that Church whereof he is a Minister Caluin himselfe was not onely suspended but also expulsed from the ministerie at Geneua and that for his stubborn refusing to administer the Lords Supper according to the order of that Church There is no Church vnder the Sunne but will haue the rites ceremonies there established to be inuiolably kept both of Minister and people Againe the Antecedent is vntrue For though Ministers bee not suspendable for giuing the Sacrament vnto many that wil not examine themselues afore hand why should they seeing neither Gods word nor mans law doth impose such a charge vpon any Minister namely to examin all Communicants who are to examine themselues yet some that will not themselues examine as notorious offenders Schismatikes the like they are not to admit vnto the holy Communion no more then they are to receiue the prophane Sitters and if they doe admit such they are to be inquired after and punished by the lawes of our Church Besides Ministers bee to admit neither ignorant ideots nor yong Infants or children that cannot examine themselues For if they do there is punishment by our lawes appointed for them as well as for those that allow the refractarie Sitters to participate at the holy table though the punishment be neither the same nor so soone inflicted S. You will say peraduenture that the breach of the peace of the Church is to be punished seuerely R. You know that where the offence is not small the punishment should not be light and where the disobedience is great the correction should not be small S. They breake not the peace of the Church which cleaue fast to Gods word in euerie thing with a meeke and quiet spirit R. You shall neuer be able to proue either your Sitting to be a cleaning fast to Gods word or our Kneeling to be a swaruing from the same But I haue shewen which mee thinks you should see how the same Kneeling is the lawful and laudable ordinance both of God and man euen of men of God or good men And therefore in mine opinion it can be no token either of meeke spirits highly to Sit when their brethren lowly do Kneele or of quiet minds obstinately to denie obedience to the orders and constitutions of a most renowmed and reformed Church S. The peace of the Church is more broken by transgressing a manifest and substantiall precept of God then by not obseruing a ceremonie whose lawfulnesse is questionable and therefore that should bee punished more then this R. You that will not be censured by the Church will and here doe censure the doings of a right Christian Church but from what spirit this doth proceede be your self iudge What manifest and substantiall precept of God there is which you say here is transgressed you haue not yet shewen and I would faine see And though you can name as you cannot any such commandement broken yet let me put you in minde how the violating euen of the morall and substantiall precepts of God haue sometimes and that by God himselfe in mans eies and afore the world with lesse rigor and seueritie beene punished then the contemptuous breach euen of ceremoniall ordinances For what I pray you was Adams eating the forbidden fruit the Bethshemites prying into the Ark of God Vzza his touching of the same Vzziah his offering of incense the mans gathering of stickes vpon the Sabbath day but violations or breaches of lawes not absolutely morall in themselues but either typical or ceremonial and yet what sinnes were euer so punished as some of them what more horrible in Gods eies then all of them In the new testament touching the Supper of the Lord which we haue now in hand the Apostle saith That whosoeuer shall eat this bread c. vnworthily shall be guiltie of the body blood of the Lord eateth and drinketh his own damnation c. procureth weaknes sicknes and bodily death Now who were they in that Church and at that time which did eate vnworthily and therefore were so chastised were they not such as transgressed and would not obey nor keepe the receiued orders of Gods people and despised his Church euen the publique place appointed for Gods worship Like vnto those that wil receiue Sitting when by order
Kneeling there may rightly be iudged both a grosse mocking of Christ as was the souldiers their bowing of Knees before him and is the taking of the name God in vaine But what is this to our Kneeling here in England at the participation of the blessed Sacrament where all things are by authoritie enioined to be done both respectiuely reuerently and with due deuotion voide of superstition Schis Did Naaman newly brought to the knowledge of God attribute so much to the bowing in the house of Rimmon when his master leaned on him so that it was not his voluntarie action and shall we who haue had the Gospel long Kneeling by institution and determination in a principal part of Gods seruice make no account whether we honor God or no by Kneeling Pro. Naaman the Assyrian neither voluntarily would nor forcible could be drawne to commit Idolatrie whose example may teach vs all whether old Professors or new Conuerts to keepe our selues free from all Idolatrous pollutions Naaman after his conuersion came if he did come into the house of Rimmon and bowed as wee come into our Churches and Kneele but yet neither be our Churches as the house of Rimmon neither bow wee so much as before Idols much lesse idolatrously when we participate of the sacred mysteries And though by institution and determination of the Church when we take eate and drinke we Kneele yet by our said kneeling we doe honor God in this principall part of his seruice your selfe hath acknowledged the gesture of Kneeling to be the most solemne signe of reuerence we do say the same SECT 3. Whether Kneeling at the Communion be a wil-worship Schis IF Kneeling be instituted for a more reuerent receiuing then it must be either in regard of God or of bread and wine Pro. Not of bread and wine Sch. If in regard of God then must we be wel perswaded that such kneeling is an acceptable seruice vnto his maiestie Pro. We are so perswaded or ought so to be els in Kneelieg we sinne yea as you say it cannot be without sinne For whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne Schis That this may be we must consider whether such Kneeling be a wil worship or a seruice reasonable and according to Gods will lest otherwise we find ourselues so farre from honoring God as that we prouoke him as did Nadab Abihu who offered incense but not the verie fire which God appointed were therfore deuoured with fire And as did king Dauid and the Priests who caried the Arke otherwise then it ought to haue beene and therefore Vzza died for it with a sodaine death For God will be sanctified if not by yet in all them that come neere him Pro. Our kneeling is no will worship but a seruice reasonble according to Gods will as be all the ecclesiasticall ordinances whatsoeuer not besides or contrarie to the reuealed will of God Such constitutions I call not humane tradition saith Bullinger because they are deriued from the diuine Scripture not deuised in the braine of man and vsed of her viz. the Church which hearkneth vnto the voice of her only shepheard acknowledging not the voice of others For example the Church commeth together to heare Gods word vnto publique praiers both in the morning euening at appointed houres as is commodious for euery place people and that is in stead of a law Againe the Church hath supplications holy-holy-dayes and publque fasts vnder certaine lawes The Church moreouer at certaine times in a certain place and prescribed maner celebrateth the sacraments that according to the lawes and receiued custome of the Church The Chuch likewise baptizeth infants remoueth not women from the Lords Supper and this she hath for a law By her deputed Iudges the Church determineth in causes matrimoniall and in these things hath certaine lawes But all these other like these she draweth from the general scriptures and for edification sake applieth them to places times and persons whereby wee may indeed behold in sundrie Churches a diuersitie of formes but no discord at all So that worthy man And agreeably hereunto the Church of Sweathland Quae cum Scriptura cōsonant those constitutions which agree with the Scripture be ordained for the bettering of maners benefite of mankind albeit according to the verie word they be not expressed in the Scriptures yet in as much as they proceede from the generall precept of Loue which hath ordained all things in most comely order they deserue to be esteemed diuine rather then humane constitutions c. Many such truly the Church doth lawfully obserue at this day and as occasion also is ministred appointeth new which whoso shall reiect the words are memorable he doth despise the authority not of men but of God whose tradition it is whatsoeuer is commodious And so they whose words haue passed vncensured by the publishers of the Harmonie of the Churches confessions If you then can shew no word of God to the contrarie we cannot but hold the order for Kneeling to bee the ordinance of God And therefore the example by you cited of Nadab Abihu and Vzza trouble not vs who conscionably do Kneele and keepe the orders of a most reformed Church but may pierce your heart and the rest of our new Recusants the separated brotherhood who obstinately despise and violate the ordinances of our Church allowed because no where disallowed in the booke of God SECT 4. Whether Christ his example in euerie thing at the ministration of the Communion is necessarily to be followed Schis BVt Kneeling is contrarie to the example of Christ and his Apostles Pro. Well may kneeling differ but surely it is contrarie to none example of theirs Schis They ministred and receiued Sitting or in such a gesture as in those Countries was most vsed at eating Pro. The truth is you cannot directly say how the Lords supper was ministred or receiued in Christ and his Apostles daies and therefore you say how by them it was ministred and receiued Sitting Schis From his example to differ without warrant from Gods word cannot be without fault Pro. Nay rather to bind vs necessarily to the example of Christ in all ceremoniall matters without warrant from Gods word cannot be without great offence Schis Examples of holy men much more of Christ are to be followed except there be some reasonable cause to the contrarie Pro. True Schis The Apostle to reforme an abuse which crept euen in their times into Loue feasts which were immediatly before or after the Lords Supper did banish them thence and reduced the maner of administring the Lords Supper to the first institution saying Shall I praise you in this I praise you not For I haue receiued of the Lord which I haue also deliuered vnto you Pro. The Loue-feasts abused by the Corinthians were spoken against by the Apostle not because they were feasts or feasts of Loue made after or before the receiuing the
the vine are more inseparably conioyned than we to him he communicating vnto vs his vigor and virtue Furthermore wee testifie and make it knowne to the world how we are members of that Church which professeth and acknowledgeth how the Sonne of God by the Sacrifice of his humane bodie hath pacified God for the sinnes of man It admonisheth vs in like sort of the mutuall loue and communion which is and ought to be betweene the members of so sacred and sanctified a body Many other causes and reasons may be alleadged why this Sacrament was instituted at the first and is frequented still of Gods people whereof though the setting out of our Communion and spirituall familiaritie with him and reioycing in him be one yet it is not the onely end but many being besides many gestures in diuers respects and not one onely is required for the more seemely receauing the same externallie Againe there being many causes and ends of our receauing the holy Supper one and the same site of body neither doth remember vs nor can present and represent all those ends vnto vs and others And therefore as sitting may note our communion and familiarity so kneeling our thankfulnes vnto God But if this spirituall Communion and comfort onely be thereby signified as nothing is more vntrue yet is the same expressed by the other Sacrament of Baptisme as well as by this and represented as well by water consisting of many drops as either of wine effected of many grapes or of bread made of many graines Which Baptisme yet is neither ministred nor vrged so to be by Sitting as the Supper is Neither is our corporall foode alwaies and euery where to the greatest comfort and token of sweetest familiarity receiued Sitting but sundry writers haue their seuerall fashions in their friendly and comfortable refreshings some taking the same one way some another not all Sitting especially in the Easterne parts of the world The antient Fathers some of them called this sacrament as the Lords Supper so a Sacrifice and that which the bread and wine were set vpon as the Lords Table so an Altar Whereof saith reuerent and most learned Zanchie although that Altars serue rather and be more meete for the offering then for the ministration of the Supper yet seeing neither Christ nor his Apostles either prohibited Altars or commended vnto vs the vse of wooden tables therefore is this also of altars to bee numbred among things indifferent and free for all and euery man to vse tables either of wood or stone at his discretion prouided that all superstition be remooued For what is an Altar saieth that holy and peaceable man what is an altar but a table made of stones about which would not I contend saith hee if so be otherwise there is a consent in the true doctrine and worship of God All this hath Zanchie which we say of Kneeling and the like And would to God you would so thinke of our Kneeing and others Altars and of all things else in good vse in reformed Churches that be indifferent Then would then could you neuer say that not Kneeling and Sitting is for receiuing It had bin too much for you to haue said how not kneeling but auerring that Sitting is for receiuing as if none other gesture were for the commodious and meete receiuing thereof but Sitting is very bad The first admonitioners which so disliked Kneeling at the Communion neuer vrged their Sitting as a thing necessary as you doe saying not Kneeling but Sitting is for receiuing For say they wee make not Sitting a thing of necessity belonging to the Sacrament neither affirme wee that it may not be receiued otherwise Therefore better iudge they of these than you doe but they best of all who take them as they are things of themselues indifferent and so except authority determine otherwise like to be deemed and that as good Communion and society they haue with Christ and his Church hauing on them the wedding garment of Faith which receiue Kneeling as they which Sit so as no man for the very act of kneeling no more then of Sitting sinneth Schis We read not of any gesture of body prescribed or obserued in Circumcision and Baptisme as in the Passeouer and Supper Pro. Or obserued Had you not added these wordes I should haue thought that by your reading you had found how thereis a forme of gesture prescribed vnto Christians at their taking the holy Communion And though I shreudly coniecture you are of that minde yet being not willing to take you at the worst let vs know the reason why a gesture was obserued though not prescribed at the holy Supper which was neither prescribed nor obserued at Baptisme and Circumcision Schis Because there needeth no naturall regard to be had of any certaine gesture in the two former Sacraments so the fore-skin were cut off and water be vsed but in the other two a gesture answerable to the action is requisite Pro. It is requisit and necessary that we take and eate bread and wine at the supper of the Lord as it was requisite that the fore-skin should be cut off at Circumcision and water vsed and none other liquor at Baptisme but that a certaine gesture was either obserued or requisit at the Communion this reason sheweth not Schis God prescribed to his people when they were to flie out of Egypt the gesture of loynes girded and staues in their hands because the eating then of the Passeouer was in hast But the gesture being but for that time as may appeare by the omission thereof when the obseruation of the Passeouer was established our Master Christ who came not to breake but fulfill the Law and knew what was fittest to be done did eate the Passeouer Sitting a gesture more answerable to eating in peace than the former vsed in Egypt Pro. Because God prescribed to the Iewes a forme of taking and eating the Passeouer hath hee therefore prescribed a forme to Christians of taking and receiuing the Lords Supper The one you manifest the other I would see prooued But had our God set downe as he hath not the manner how Christians should receaue the Supper as hee ordained how the Passeouer should bee taken and eaten of the Iewes yet because you heere confesse that this forme of eating the Passeouer in processe of time was altered the Iewes now eating the same Sacrament for substance but after a new manner sitting in Christs time for so you say standing afore and yet without sinne why may not wee Christians vpon as good reasons retaining the substance change the manner after which the holy Supper was ministred and receiued in the daies of Christ Before Christ his time there were additions vnto you heard afore in Christ his time there were alterations of the manner of taking the Passe-ouer your selfe do say yet all well liked and allowed of the Lord. Had the Iewes more libertie to adde formes euen of
of the one then of the other For hee vsing both a speciall time and a certaine gesture if hee chose the one hee chose both and if his example bee of vs necessarilie to bee followed in the gesture it is to bee followed also in the time wee can no more alter the one then wee may change the other Schis That followeth not For it was vppon speciall and necessarie occasion for the Passeouer must bee eaten before the Lords Supper could be instituted in stead thereof and presently after Supper the houre came that Christ was to be betraied Pro. Be this acknowledged what hereof Schis Therefore if the Iewes transgressed not the institution of the Passeouer by changing a gesture at the first prescribed by God according to that their present occasion into another fitter for a time of rest much lesse do Christians transgresse the institution of the Lords Supper by changing the time taken by Christ vpon occasion but not prescribed into some fitter in discretion for the ordinarie celebration of the Lords Supper Pro. You haue twice now said that the Iewes changed the gesture of Standing prescribed euen by God himself at their eating the Passeouer if you had once proued your saying to make it out of doubt you had done well Other diuines not to be contemned thinke cleane otherwise namely that the Iewes and euen Christ himselfe kept the old custome of standing neuer changed the same into Sitting Non autem dubium est bee some of their words it is without doubt that Christ performed that ceremonie of eating the Passeouer Stando amictus baculum tenens Standing his loynes girded and holding a staffe in his hand But it may not bee acknowledged which now the second time also you say that their newe Sitting was fitter for a time of rest then their old Standing God hauing prescribed this Standing for a perpetuall memorie euen till the reall Passion of Christ of their suddaine and safe deliuerance from the most grieuous thraldome of theirs in Egypt But did or might the Iewes before the verie and full time was come that the said Passeouer was to take an end alter the rite and site of eating the same changing their Standing prescribed into Sitting not enioynd by God but deuised by themselues as fitter to represent their present and future rest then their former troubles may not Gods people in these dayes change the site of Christs Sitting if he did Sit which was neuer prescribed vnto Christians into Kneeling in their discretion The Iewes transgressed not the institution of the Passeouer say you by changing a gesture at the first prescribed of God and doe Christians transgresse the institution of the Supper by changing a gesture neither first nor last nor at all prescribed if practised by Christ And might Christians in former dayes lawfully change the time chosen by Christ but not prescribed into some other fitter in discretion for the ordinarie celebrating of the Lords Supper and doe Christians now offend in changing a corporall gesture no more enioined then was the time into some fitter in discretion for the celebrating of the Lords Supper in a publique Church at open publique praier and thanksgiuing Haue not Christians in these indifferent matters as great power as had the Iewes and the now liuing Christians as their forefathers And might both Iewes and Christians adde and alter formes of administring the Sacraments not changing their substance and sinne they now which in these dayes doe vse their libertie in these things after the example both of the Christians and Iewes See you not how your owne weapons doe wound your selfe Now among Christians who changed the time Schis Probably the Primitiue Church did Pro. You cannot then certainly say it you doe but probably coniecture that the Primitiue Church made the change What moueth you so to thinke Schis For euery first day of the weeke viz. the Lords day the brethren came together to breake bread that is to minister the Communion So that either they neuer met vpon the Lords day but in the Euening or els they celebrated the Communion at some other times Pro. Be it that the first day yea euerie first day of the weeke namely euery Lords day the Christians came together to breake bread that is to minister the Communion which yet is not agreed vpon among the learned yet that they so met euery first day in the day time and not in the night is but coniecturall yea that they met together in the night as well as in the day to that end the twentie of the Acts doth shew Wherupon some doe note how nocturnall meetings are not simplie and of themselues to be condemned But let it be more then probable and most certaine that the alteration of the time of ministring the Lords Supper came in while the Apostles liued yet did this ministring thereof in the day varie from Christ his ministring the same in the night and being done with good discretion the Church thereby transgressed not the institution of Christ. So without sinne was the gesture of our Sauiour changed into Kneeling whosoeuer were the authors thereof Schis But for any alteration of the gesture of Sitting especially into Kneeling there is not the least probabilitie Pro. When all the world knoweth and seeth the gesture to be altered how can you say it is not probable that it was altered And though it bee not apparent and if you will too not probable that the Apostles altered the gesture and that into Kneeling yet it is most certaine and more then probable that Apostolicall men endued with the holy Spirit were both alterers at the first and vsers afterward of that seemely gesture SECT 9. Whether the prayer at the deliuerie of the bread and wine be iustifiable Schis IT is further obiected that we may Kneele in regard of prayers to be vsed by prescription of authoritie at the deliuerie of the bread and wine viz. The bodie of our Lord Iesus Christ which was giuen for thee preserue thy bodie and soule vnto eternall life and take and eat this c. Pro. What is your answere Schis Hereunto these answers may be returned Pro. Which be they Schis First seeing wee reiect Christ his example of Sitting for Kneeling wee must not stand vpon what wee may doe but humblie consider what wee must doe Pro. Those Christians which Kneele doe no more reiect Christ his example of Sitting then doe you reiect it in ministring the Communion to women priuatly and many wayes besides otherwise then he did If euerie action of Christ be a necessarie iniunction binding Christians to the imitation of the same so as they may not varie therefrom in their discretion but they sinne that which you haue said of the Christians celebrating of the Supper in the day deserueth the same reproofe which this Kneeling doeth both swaruing from this example but surely neither of them tending to Gods dishonour nor against his will But what incenseth