arrayed for so the Psalmist mentions in Psal 132.9 Hereto again agrees our worthy Hooker Eccl. Polit. lib. 5. pag. 61. namely That it suteth so fitly with that lightsome affection of joy wherein God delighteth when his Saints praise him and so lively resembleth the glory of the Saints in Heaven together with the beauty wherein Angels have appeared unto Men that they which are to appeare for men in presence of God as Angels if they were lest unto their own choice and would choose any could not easily devise a garment of more decency for such a service Psal 149.2 Rev. 15.6 Mar. 16 5. Thus then we see what little cause there is for any one to scruple eryout or raile against the solemne wearing of this Vestment For mine own part I shall better esteem it then ever yet yea though it should chance to be quite put down my thoughts will be ever the same in the mean time accounting them no other then turbulent troublers of the Churches quiet who shall still be obstinate and upon no termes receive satisfaction but perversely provide to advance puritanicall humours which being once predominant are like a naked sword sharp and unsheathed in a mad mans hands But from such as these Good Lord deliver us A further addition concerning a place in the XII Chapter of Tobie at the IX verse where it is written that Almes doe save from death and purge away all sinne SOme say it is an Hyperbole and ought so be taken least otherwise we detract from the Blood of Christ to whom it belongeth to free from Sin and Death Others answer thus that we must have recourse to the rule because the doctrine of the Law without Christ profiteth nothing Placent igitur Eleemosynae Deo quae sequuntur reconciliationem seu justificationem non quae praecedunt that is Almes please God which follow Reconciliation or Justification not which goe before it This thus in the book of the Concord of the Prince Electours in Germany and of those Divines which embraced the Augustane Confession Wherein is further added that Almes are the exercises of faith which receives Remission of sinnes which overcometh Death whilest it exerciseth it selfe more and more and in those exercises gaines forces There it is also written that the whole speech of Tobie being lookt into sheweth that Faith is required to go before Almes All the dayes of thy life have God in thy minde And again Alwayes blesse God and desire of him that be would direct thy wayes Now this is properly of such a ones Faith of which we speake which perceiveth that it hath God appeased by reason of his mercy and is willing to be justified of God sanctified and ruled by him Thus farre out of that booke in the answer to the Papists who cite certain places against us to prove that Faith doth not justifie and that we deserve Remission of sinnes and grace by our Works Doctor Fulke against the Rhemish Testament denieth these words to be in the Greek text of Tobie But there is a place much like it in Dan. 4 24. See also Prov. 15.27 Prov. 16.6 Luk. 11.41 and then heare an answer out of Bishop Morton in his Protestant appeale lib. 3. cap. 9. § 1. First saith he in these places which have been objected there is only mention made of Almes can the Romanists say that Almes alone have this force of redeeming sinne If they should then might they readily be confuted by their owne Jesuite Maldonate shewing from St. Austine that no man will say that giving of Almes can availe for purgation of sinne without faith in him Christ who is the authour of salvation And this doctrine the Protestants they know doe not mislike Secondly the question is How then can Almes be said to purge sinne Whereunto their foresaid Jesuite answereth that it is impossible for Almes to cleanse the soule from sinne but to dispose it Which exposition is that which we may easily admit in his true sence for God disposeth man unto faith and charity and then is man disposed and qualified to receive Remission as in the margent he noteth Thirdly their Bishop Jansenius and Cardinall Bellarmine examining the same text report the excellent judgement of Basil who taught that Almes of themselves cannot expiate sinne but the primordiall cause is the mercy of God wberehy men have Redemption in all other actions Well then without any further searching into Authours thus I conclude that Almes are the fruits and exercises of faith and well pleasing unto God Heb. 13.16 And for any one to make an outward shew of Religion and to talke much of Faith but practise no deeds of Charity is to be like a sounding Brasse and tinckling Cymball and to be dead still in sinnes and trespasses not bringing forth fruits meet for Repentance 1 Cor. 13. Mat. 3.8 Psal 1. v. 1 2 3. Blessed therefore is the man that hath not walked in the councell of the ungodly nor stand in the way of sinners and hath not sit in the seat of the scornfull But his delight is in the Law of the Lord and is his Law doth he exercise himselfe day and night For he shall bee like a tree planted by the waters side which will bring forth ber fruit in due season In a word This is a true saying and these things I will thou shouldest affirme that they which have beleeved God might be carefull to shew forth good workes Tit. 3.8 And then at the 14 verse Let ours also learne to shew forth good workes for necessary uses that they be not unfruitfull Soli Deo gloria A further and finall Addition concerning Episcopacie to prove that it is of Divine right because instituted by Christ and his Apostles which this Dialogue-writer granteth not to be till 334. yeares after Christ together with a Corollary concerning a new Edition of the said writers Booke THe beginning of Imparity among the Ministers of the New Testament was first laid by our Saviour Christ and upon his ground as Churches were planted the Apostles raised the fabricke of that government which in all parts of the Church they left established before such time as they left the world Onely Diotrephes maliciously prated against them and scorned to acknowledge the transcendent power of their Apostolicall jurisdiction Whereupon we read in the third Epistle which was written by S. Iohn that when the said Apostle wrote unto the Church this great Stickler proudly stood out against him For I wrote unto the Church saith he but Diotrephes which loveth to have the preheminence among them receiveth us not Wherefore if I come I will call to your remembrance his deeas which he doth pratling against us with malitious words and not therewith content neither he himselfe receiveth the Brethren but forbiddeth them that would and thrusteth them out of the Church But Diotrephes might have seen a manifest imparity in our Saviours owne choyce even at the first when he chose twelve Apostles and made them
Majesty But in this you speake against us just as did the Pagans sometimes against the Christians who imputed all the calamities that befell them to be in regard of the Christian religion plagues famine fires and whatsoever publike calamity befell them was for no other cause This therefore made the poore Christians suffer the more persecutions and come under the greater troubles even to rhe shedding of their blood with a purpose of destroying them quite and rooting them out Howbeit the God of Heaven did sometimes send them times of breathing and at last stirred up a powerfull patriot carefully to defend them all which was shewed in vision to Saint John as we may read it in the 12 Chapter of the Revelation And as for us beside the whole Answer to your Dialogue I have already even in particular shewed you how Letanies have prevailed with God in times of danger And are these services now become odious to Heaven not in themselves but in those who doe not use them as they ought For God is the same alwayes from one Generation to another he changeth not but is the same for ever and is well pleased to see us come into his Courts and to doe our devotions before him But this is evermore the fashion of your Sect to dive deeper into Gods secrets then they who are wise unto sobriety dare determine God blesse the King and direct aright the High Court of Parliament and so guide and direct us all that we may with a joynt consent strive together truly to set forth his praise and glory To which let all that love the Lord say evermore Amen Amen An addition in a word or two to give satisfaction concerning the Surplice THe Dialogue I confesse meddles not at all with this But because some scruple at it without cause I shall speake a word or two about it The attire which the Minister of God is by order to use at times of Divine Service is a long wâ—ite garment which we commonly call a Surplice to which Graduates have their hoods and such like other Ornaments added according to their degrees in the Vniversity The use whereof is not only appointed by Canon but established by Act of Parliament as may be seen in the Rubrick intituled The Order where Morning and Evening Prayer shall be used and said Which Rubrick is set before the beginning of Common Prayer comprehending also the Ornaments or Robes of Bishops as well as of other inferior Ministers All which were likewise in uâ—e by Authority of Parliament in the second year of the raign of King Edward the fixt and by like authority continued amongst us even ever since The originall of this white garment came not first from Popery but was used in the Church of God long before They do ill therefore who affright themselves at the fight thereof and terrifie others also with it as if it were a Relique or Râ—g of Popery Were it not better saith worthy Hooker Eccles Polit. pag. 61. lib. 5. that the love which men beare to God should make the least things that are imployed in his Service amiable then that their over-scrupulous dislike of so mean a thing as a Vestment should from the very service of God withdraw their hearts and affections Divine Religion saith Saint Hierom hath one kinde of habit to Minister before the Lord another for ordinary uses belonging unto common life This he said in his Comment upon the 44. chap. of Ezekiel in regard of the ornaments which even the Priests under the Law were clothed with Howbeit his words are extensive to Divine Religion in generall and therefore he chides with Pelagius when he taxed at large all neat apparell as if he had ment somthing also against the white garment worn by persons Eccle siasticall when they administer the usuall Sacrifice Hieron advers Pelag. lib. 8. c. 6. For this he saith they did in a garment that was white Chrysostome also mentions the same and cals it A white shining garment as may be seen in that which he speaketh to the Clergie men at Antioch where he doth not accuse them because they wore it but told them as Hooker fitly noteth that it was a matter of small commendation in it self if they which weare it do nothing else but aire the robes which their place requireth Chrysost ad popul Antioch tom 5. Serm. 60. The Priests garments under the Law had I grant their mysticall reference peculiar to those times beside which they served likewise for comelines expressed in Exod. where it is said They were for glory and for beauty Ex. 28.2 and are not therfore exempted from the choice of the Church of Christ to select some speciall one or other out of the number of those holy garments or to appoint some other to be worn for decency and order according to that generall Canon of the New Testament which the Apostle mentions in the 1 Cor. 14.40 Nor is it but certain that the Analogie of their Law is a rule to us yea the equity and righteousnesse thereof bindes us still and even in this teacheth us that Gods Ministers as well now as then are not only to be differenced from the people but even from themselves in respect of their attire at other times For the more solemn the performance is of any publike duty the better it is imprinted in the regard and esteem of others Eccl. Polit. p. 168. lib. 4. For we must not think but that there is some ground of reason even in nature whereby it commeth to passe that no Nation under heaven either doth or ever did suffer publike actions which are of waight whether they be Civill or Temporall or else Spirituall and Sacred to passe without some visible solemnity as Hooker speaketh Magistrates of note have their robes in highest Courts and Judges at Law are gravely attired And shall not Ministers officiate in comely garments The Angels that appeared at our Saviors Resurrection were then imployed in a part of their service And were they not cloathed in white a fitting Pattern for Gods Ministers whom the Scripture sometimes termeth Angels Malach. 3.1 and Revel 1.20 It is writen also in the Revelation Revel 15 6. that the Seven Angels came out of the Temple cloathed in pure and white linnen a pattern againe for Gods Ministers and more perspicuous who as they are Angels in name so may be like Angels in this whilest they doe service to their God in any Temple And if as one speaketh Mr. Reeve in his Divinit p. 103. it be granted to the wife of the Lamb that she should be arayed in fine linnen clean and white for the fine linnen is the righteousnes of the Saints why may it not saith he be granted to her more excellent Mâ—mbers to be so arrayed in presence of that Lamb land in his publike service with materiall fine linnen clean and white in signification of the righteousnes of Saints wherewithall they ought most eminently to be
Christ and acknowledge him to be Lord of all and to have power over all to save and condemne whom he will ANSWER You undertake at the first to speake of things in the Common-Prayer-Booke but now I see you are fallen upon something else His name as you say which first commanded to bow at the name of Iesus was Anastatius a man I hope of an earlier date than either to be termed Pope by way of derision or to bee slighted for his care about this custome which the Church was acquainted with a long time before hee was ever Bishop of Rome Saint Hierom in his Comment upon Esay the 45.23 which is the very text alledged by you to be a testimony against bowing of the knee speakes of it as no new thing in his time for It is saith hee the custome of the Church to bow the knee to CHRIST which the Jewes shewing the perversenesse of their minds altogether refuse to doe noting thereby that it was so farre from being new as that it was come to bee one of the Churches customes Zanchy is able to say that the use is ancient Nor do men of great reading but affirme that it was used in the time of Arius which must needs be in the Primitive times because Arius was before the first Councell of Nice Nor might it but bee used sooner if wee cast an eye to the scoffings of the Jewes For the Jewes began to scoffe and mocke at our Saviour in allusion to his name even when he suffered and have ever since derided the Christians with their crucified Iesus Thus the chiefe Priests mocking him with the Scribes and Elders alluding to his name Jesus said He saved others himselfe he cannot save Matth. 27.42 And as Marlorat speaketh Marl. in Mat. ch 1. â— 21. The Jewes in scorn and derision to this day cal our Saviour not Jesus but Jehu which with them signifieth only some common and contemptible fellow As then the name Iesus is that name in which he was derided and which they abuse by their chopping and changing that they might thereby abase our Saviour and with which they flout us for our faith so is it that name in which he must bee honoured The Father hath assigned so much unto him and wee are bound to afford it as a part of his reward for the death of the Crosse His person wee know is taken from us but his Name he hath left still with us And as his Person for suffering is crowned with honour and glory Heb. 2.9 So must his Name be so farre exalted as that at the Name of Iesus every knee must bow Phil. 2.10 And thus will your figurative exposition be nothing worth though illustrated by a comparison of things done in the Kings name For at the name of Jesus is meant Jesus named to whom we how when we heare him called by that name For though his Person bee exalted and sitteth at the right hand of God yet his Name in which he was despised is not exalted by us as it ought except we also reverence his Person upon the mentioning of that name which God hath given him to bee above every Name that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow Where is then the Idoll which you speak of it would trouble you sure to finde it out and therefore that calumnie was either ignorantly cast upon the Bishops or maliciously to bring upon them the greater Odium obloquie contempt and scorne But others you say were called Jesus as well as our Lord and Saviour true some others have had that name given them by humane imposition but not as given to our Redeemer by God with a command of his adoration Ther 's none of them that could either doe that which hee did or be saved but by him and must therefore so resigne this name to him as that he beare it with a maine difference from them all And as for that which you say of the holy Angels and soules of the faithfull which have no knees they have their wayes surely to doe that which wee doe in our bodies else it would never bee given in charge that all the Angels of GOD must worship him Hebr. 1.6 Nor bee written that the Saints in Heaven fall downe before him Rev. 5.8,9 Nor may them in Hell bee excluded For though it bee a torment to them to testifie either reverence or subjection yet seeing Christ must Reigne till he have put all his enemies under his feet they shall whether they will or no be brought unto it a proofe of which assertion is in the foureteenth chapter of the Romans at the tenth and eleventh verses In which regard the Apostles words Phil. 2.10 mentioning that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow both of things in Heaven of things on Earth and of things under the Earth are not unfitlie said to bee a Prophecie which by many Christians is fulfilling in this life here on earth by blessed spirits and Saints is fulfilled in Heaven and shall fully be accomplished in the day of judgment as Master Calvin very well observeth For though it bee a prophecie wee must know that under this prophecie expressed there is a dutie implyed For Prophecies saith one are of two sorts some that are fulfilled in an instant others by degrees and by little and by little of which latter sort is this prophecie that every knee shall bow DIALOGUE Gent. What doe you thinke of them that kneele when they receive the Communion bread Min. The Papists say that they are Idolaters because they kneele and doe not beleeve the reall presente as they doe ANSWER It is no matter what the Papists say Their dislike should me thinkes moderate your spleene and make you think the better of us for their sakes To beleeve their reall presence is no part of our Creed and yet to kneele is a part of our devotion Wee kneele no more to the Bread than to the Pulpit or to our seates when we joyne with the Minister in praying unto God But our quarrell is not now with them of Rome but with you for taking durt out of their puddles and causelesly to throw it at us DIALOGUE Gent. Who was the first that brought in kneeling Min. Pope Honorius about the yeare of our Lord 1220. after that the errour of Transubstantiation was hatcht at the Councell of Lateran Gent. J have read in Gods Word that the Apostles did not kneele when Christ Himselfe delivered the bread unto them I have read also in the Booke of Martyrs that the ancient Councels in the Primitive Church did make Canons against kneeling least it should prove an occasion of Idolatry Ought not we to conforme our selves to our Saviour Christ and his Apostles and to the Christians of the Primitive Church rather than to the Devils Vicar-generall the Pope Min. Yes verily for it is grosse hypocrisie in us to make a shew as though wee were more godly and zealous than the Apostles and
thirtieth Canon of the same Booke or to the three and thirtieth Canon of the Councell of Laodicea which was celebrated in the yeare of our LORD GOD 364. as Iustellus writeth DIALOGUE Gent. What other errour doe you find to be in the Service-Booke Min. The interrupting of the Minister by the Clarke and the whole Congregation is a foule errour and such an error and confusion as doth much offend God and that therefore many are unwilling to come into the Church till the Service be all read ANSWER I doubt me you are none of those who will be so diligent as to reade the whole Service your pretended errours and dislikes which you here lay downe in this Dialogue are cause enough to make me think so And therefore they of your Parish had need to come betimes to Church if they meane to know your Text or heare any more than a peece of your Sermon except you doe as no few of your Sect trifle away a great deale of time in vaine repetitions and idle tautologies in some prayer of your own which our Saviour Himselfe likens to the practice of the Heathen and calls no better than much babling DIALOGUE Gent. How doe they interrupt the Minister Minist By rehearsing his words with a loud voyce and by taking words out of his mouth and by mingling their prayers with his ANSWER This may be answered out of Doctor Boys whose words be these I am occasioned saith he in this place justly to defend the peoples answering the Minister aloud in the Church The beginning of which interlocutory passages is ascribed by Platina to Damasus Bishop of Rome by Theodoret to Diodorus Bishop of Antioch by Walfridus Strabo to Saint Ambrose Bishop of Millane all which lived 1100 yeares before the Church was acquainted with any French fashions and yet Basil Epist 63. alleadgeth that the Churches of Aegypt Lybia Thebes Palestina Phoenicians Syrians Mesopotamians used it long before Socrates and Strabo writ that Ignatius a Scholler unto Christs owne Schollers is thought to be the first Author hereof If any man shall expect greater antiquity and authority we can fetch this order even from the Quire of Heaven I saw the Lord said Esay Esay 6.3 set on an high Throne the Seraphims stood upon it and one cried to another saying Holy holy holy Lord God of Hosts all the World is full of His glory Esay 6.3 Blessed spirits in praising God answer one another interchangeably though unhappie scornefull spirits unmannerly tearme this custome Tossing of Service an interrupting of the Minister a foule errour yea such an errour and confusion as doth much offend God DIALOGUE Minist The Minister when he prayeth is the mouth of the people speaking to God for them therefore they ought to bee silent till he hath done speaking and then to say Amen 1 Cor. 14.16 and not to interrupt him by rehearsing every word after him as in the confession of sinne when the Minister saith Almighty and most mercifull Father we have erred and strayed out of thy wayes like lost sheepe and in the Letany when he saith ô God the Father of Heaven have mercy upon us miserable sinners The Minister must stop and be silent till the Clarke and people have with a loud voyce rehearsed every word after him in which time it is impossible for the Minister to keep idle and by-thoughts from comming into his minde ANSWER If it be so with you that idle and by-thoughts will not be kept from comming into your mind pray to God to settle you better and bee not so rash as to measure other mens corne by your owne Bushell Saint Ambrose tells us that in his times the Church resounded againe with the responds of Men Women and Children like to the Sea with its beating waves or like to the rushing of many waters Thus in the Latine Church And in the Greeke Church Saint Basil is witnesse that the voyce of their prayers and Responds was like the noise of waters beating against the Rockes The patterne whereof seemes to be in Revel 14.2 besides what was before out of Esay 6.3 This is therefore all that I may yeeld you viz. that in every part of the service it is not requisite that it should be so For in many of the Prayers the people are to be silent and have no more to doe with an open and loud voyce than to say Amen But then again when occasion is offered I must say unto them as David did O praise our God yee people and make the voyce of his praise to bee heard Psalm 66.7 Or as it is in another Psalme Psal 95.1 O come let us sing unto the Lord let us make a joyfull noise to the Rocke of our salvation Or as in another Psal 107.31.32 ô that men would praise the Lord for his goodnesse and for his wonderfull works to the children of men Let them exalt him also in the Congregation of the people and praise him in the assembly of the Elders And in a word as for those times in which by the Apostles warrant they are to say Amen at the end of the Ministers prayer it was not without due care observed in the ancient times Saint Paul mentions it in the place alledged by you 1 Cor. 14.16 And as Saint Hierome writes it was the praise of the Primitive Church That their Amen was like a clap of thunder and their Halleluja as the roring of the Sea DIALOGUE Minist Also when hee prayeth for the King saying Lord save the King they interrupt him by mingling their prayer with his saying And mercifully heare us when we call upon thee The Minister being interrupted and put out in praying for the King doth pray for Ministers saying Indue thy Ministers with righteousnesse they doe then also interrupt him by mingling their prayers with his saying And make thy people joyfull ANSWER This is strange that you dare dally thus These Suffrages at which you kick with scorne are answerable to that prayer of David in the hundred and two and thirtieth Psalm where hee prayes for the Prince Priests and People orderly For the Prince Lord remember David For the Priests Let thy Priests be cloathed with righteousnesse For the People Let thy Saints sing with joyfulnesse So we in like manner Lord save thy King Indue thy Ministers with righteousnesse And make thy chosen people joyfull This also justifies our order in praying for the King first for the Clergie next and for the Laity last of all in our well composed Letany with which you quarrell next But had your quarrell been with the mattter of it as with the manner I should have said as worthy Hooker did What one petition is there found in the whole Letany whereof we shall ever be able at any time to say That no man living needeth the grace or benefit therein craved at Gods hands And a little before It now remaineth saith he a work the absolute perfection whereof upbraydeth with error or
up his countenance upon thee and give thee peace And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel and I will blesse them All which is still done by the Ministers of the Gospell they blesse they teach they instruct they rebuke they reprove they exhort they consecrate the Bread and Wine to holy uses they offer up the Prayers of the people nay more they do as it were offer Christ in a Mystery and sacrifice him objectively by way of commemoration In which we differ farre from the Church of Rome for the Romish Church professeth the Body and Blood of Christ to be the proper subject we nay but the proper object of our Celebration We take then a Priest and Presbiter now to be all one and list not to quarrell any longer about the word For should we descend to Grammer we are told as much as comes fully home namely that the word Priest hath his right place in him whose meer function and charge is the service of God Whereunto let me only adde that which I find in Bishop Jewell We know saith he that the Priest or Minister of the Church of God is divided from the rest of his brethren as was the tribe of Levi from the children of Israel and hath a speciall office over the people Neither may any man force himself into that office without lawfull calling But as touching the inward Priest-hood and the exercise of the soule we say even as Saint Peter and Saint John and Tertullian have said in this sence every faithfull Christian man is a Priest and offereth to God Spirituall Sacrifices In this only sence I say and none otherwise Thus he granting that there is a Priest-hood internall and a Priest-hood externall For saith he there is not one of us that ever taught otherwise See this in his Defence of the Apology for the Church of England Part 2. pag. 130. DIALOGUE Gent. What do you think of the Priest and Clark when they do Church a woman Min. I will not tell you what I think but I will tell you what some doe say Gent. What do they say Min. They say that the Priest is like a witch Gent. Why doe they say that the Priest is like to a witch Min. Because he doth as a witch doth when she saith the Lords Prayer Gent. What doth a witch when she saith the Lords Prayer Min. She leaves out these words but deliver us from evill and so doth the Priest when he doth Church a woman Gent. Why will not a witch say these words Min. Because the Devill will not let her till she hath bewitched so many as he would have her For by the evill that is prayed against in that petition is meant the Devill and the sinne whereunto he tempteth therefore the Devill will not have her to say these words because when she saith them she prayeth that God will deliver her from him and the witchery whereunto he tempteth her ANSWER This is a cavill scarce worth the answering for it is most certain that the evill which you speak of is prayed against The most therefore which you could urge fairely is no more but this viz. That the order in saying that Prayer had been better without an answer interposed then by the interposing of one in which I think you should have met with few or none to quarrell you But to speak so basely and in such unbeseeming manner as you have done serves as a figne to shew with what a malignant spirit you wrote these things who do rather play the witch your selfe by speaking perverse words to draw away disciples after you then justly accuse the Priest in these your vain janglings But it is as Saint Paul gave notice a great while since when he called the Elders of Ephesus together as we read in the twentieth chapter of the Acts of the Apostles at the 30 verse DIALOGUE Min. The Priest doth also skip over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer for thine is the kingdome power and glory and therein also they say that he is like to a witch when she doth say the Creed for when she saith the second Article And in Jesus Christ his onely sonne she skips over these words Our Lord and so doth the Priest slip over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer Gent. Saint Luke leaves it out and therefore the Priest may leave them out Luk. 11.4 Min. It followeth not that therefore the Minister may leave them out for Saint Luke did not write any thing of himselfe but what the holy Ghost would have him to write Gent. Why would not the holy Ghost have him to write them Min. Because it was sufficient that Saint Mathew had writ them Math. 6.13 ANSWER Here you shew us still more of your skill in witchery and tell us of the Priests skipping over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer And indeed if there were not some President for it in Scripture it might not be But there is president for it in Luke 11.4 although you be pleased to passe it over with a non sequitur And yet for all that it may follow well enough For whereas it seemed good to the holy Ghost in one Evangelist to adde the Doxologie and in another to omit it the Church is blamelesse and may indifferently follow either the one or the other seeing both of them wrote by inspiration For who knows except you who know any thing whether it were the purpose of the holy Ghost to have Saint Luke omit it because Saint Matthew had recorded it and not rather to shew that it was a compleat Prayer at the end of the petitions although the reason of the petitions be not mentioned where the Doxology is omitted It is well then to repeat those words of the conclusion and not ill although they be not alwaies mentioned for our Church in so doing hath the pattern not only of all the Latine and some of the Greek Fathers but even of Saint Luke himself Quando dicimus libera nos à malo nihil remanet quod ultra adhuc debeat postulari as saith Saint Cyprian Cypr. de Orat. Dominic that is When we say Deliver from evill there remains nothing more to be prayed for DIALOGUE Gent. Some doe think because Saint Mark and Saint John doe make no mention of the Lords Prayer that therefore the Minister may omit the reading of it and that because the Evangelists and the Apostles did not use to say it as a Prayer therefore none neither Minister nor people ought to use it as a Prayer Min. The truth is that our Saviour Christ did make it for all Christians to use as a prayer and also for a pattern to pray by Gent. Where doe you finde that our Saviour Christ would have it used as a Prayer Min. In the 11 chapter of the Gospell written by Saint Luke and the second verse where it is written that our Saviour said When you pray say Our Father which c. Gent. Where doe
you finde that our Saviour would have it used for a pattern Min. In the sixt chapter of the Gospel written by Saint Matthew and the nineth verse where it is written that our Saviour said After this manner pray you Our Father which c. ANSWER I would that all in your book could have been as well approved as this for here you speak both the words of sobernesse and truth and I commend you for it DIALOGUE Gent. Why will not the witch acknowledge Christ to be the Lord Min. Because the Devill would have her to take Him and not Christ for her Lord. ANSWER This is mentioned to great purpose I promise you is it not I am loath to trifle away the time in these passages I should else go neer hand to tell you that as Simon Magus was taken for some great one because he had a long time bewitched the people with sorceries so you perhaps would be thought some great one too for your profound knowledge in what passeth between the Devill and witches of which you have so often told us But whilest you are so busie in the Theory of their trade and apply your speculations no better you doe but shew your selfe in your colours to please a company of frantick and mis-perswaded people wilfull and wandring soules who are led with an intemperate spirit as well as you The simple saith Solomon Prov. 14.15,16 beleeveth every word but the prudent man looketh well to his going A wise man feareth and departeth from evill but the foole rageth and is confident Ch. 16. v. 29 30 A violent man entiseth his neighbour and leadeth him into the way that is not good He shutteth his eyes to devise froward things moving his lips he bringeth evill to passe Ch. 15.2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright but the mouth of fooles bableth out foolishnesse And I pray good Sir doe you a little work upon that DIALOGUE Gent. Why doe some say that the Priest and Clarke when they doe Church a woman are like to a couple of players acting their parts Min. Because the Priest doth skip over these words But deliver us from evill and doth leave them to the Clark to say for his part c. ANSWER Before he was like to a Witch but now he and his Clark are likened to Players you will one day be ashamed of this I feare unlesse you act a better part before you leave the stage your present Plaudite may deceive you the future is that which is most materiall But le ts goe on and see what followeth DIALOGUE Min. And then as soon as the Clark hath said them the Priest saith Lord save this woman thy Servant then the Clark comes in again with his part saying which putteth her trust in thee then the Priest as though he would not have the woman to put her trust in him turns her over to the Clark and bids him be unto her a strong Tower then the Clarke answereth and sheweth wherein saying from the face of her enemy ANSWER Oh desperate wickednesse dares any man be so bold as to utter such impieties The first words Lord save this woman thy servant will stand as a sentence against this prophane babler to witnesse against him be he whom he will He a Minister more fit to make a rayling Rabshakeh or a scoffing Michal Let him therefore in time look well unto it lest with prophane Esau he loose his birth-right and be deprived of his heavenly Fathers blessing As well may he tell us that we are to have no other God but the Minister because the Minister reads the first Commandement as vent this thus concerning the Priest and Clark in their Churching of women DIALOGUE Gent. This is a very strange kinde of giving of God thankes for womens safe deliverance from the great pain and perill of Childe-birth Min. It is indeed and no small griefe to honest women not only because there is no thanks given to God for their safe deliverance from the pain and perill of Child-birth but also because thanksgiving is turned to a Jewish kind of Purification For they must come with a vaile to cover their faces after the Jewish manner signifying thereby that by childe-bearing they were made uncleane and that they were ashamed of their uncleannesse or that they had played the Harlots and were ashamed to shew their faces and Juda thought that Thamar was an Harlot because her face was covered with a vaile Gen. 33.14.15 It is a great offence not only to honest women but also to every true Christian man to see his wife goe to the Church like a Jew or like an Harlot ANSWER You have a fine faculty in moulding of matters I see and in fashioning of things according as your selfe thinks good to fancy One while you say it is a strange giving of thanks another while it is no giving of thanks and then again it is a giving of thanks but turned to a Jewish kind of Purification You would make a pretty Proteus I perceive But I will reprove thee and set before thee the things that thou hast done Thou hast let thy mouth speak wickednesse and with thy tongue thou hast set forth deceit according to that of the Psalmist with which you dallied but even now Can I tell how to say otherwise Is here no giving of thanks I marvaile that you blush not nor be ashamed to wrest things contrary to the evidence of open sight I have lifted up mine eyes unto the hills from whence commeth my helpe words sure of thankfulnesse Nay the whole Psalme is an Hymne of Prayse and thanksgiving fitly chosen for such a purpose 2 Chr. 29,30 Moreover Hezekiah the King and the Princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the Lord with the words of David and of Asaph the Seer and they sang prayses with gladnesse and they bowed their â—eads and worshipped 2 Chro 29.30 The Church then you see goes on in a right way and repaires to a worthy store-house for a fitting form But I perceive your drift as if you aymed like T. C. your great Goliah to have no publike thanks in such a case as this because it comes too neer the Jewish kinde of Purification Wherefore I shall answer in more particular and tell you that although that Law as concerning the Ceremony be ceased yet the righteousnesse thereof is to be fulfilled in those which walk not after the flesh but after the spirit Rom. 8.4 For in all things we are commanded to give thanks 1 Thess 5.18 And must offer the Sacrifice of prayse unto God Heb. 13.15 And if for other benefits thanks and praise be due then for this preservation which in Melancthons phrase is Magnum miraculum a great miracle insomuch that if the Childe when he comes to know it will not stick to say with David Psal 139.13 I will give thanks to thee for I am fearfully and wonderfully made then may the Mother not refuse who
and of faithfull Preachers against false Teachers belongs to other visions and cannot be here intended unlesse you had the faculty of making one thing serve for all purposes DIALOGUE Gent. What is meant by the casting the Dragon and his Angels out of heaven Min. Thereby is meant the utter confusion and overthrow of Antichrist by the Spirit of Christs mouth that is by Preaching of the Gospell so as he shall be deprived of all dignity and shall have no place in heaven that is in the Church of God to domineere any more as thankes be to God the Arch-bishop of Canterbury is deprived of all dignity and shall never have any place againe in heaven I meane in the Church of God to domineere as he hath done ANSWER The further you goe the more wrong still in your interpretation But was it so that you could not have a fling at the Archbishop of Canterbury except you streine a Prophecy You had better sure have let him alone then by a false glosse corrupt the text for in this very passage you have done no lesse as is more then manifest nor doe my former Answers but declare it DIALOGUE Gent. Why is this Prophecy appointed to be read on Michaelmas day Min. It is appointed to be read on Michaelmasse day of purpose to pervert the meaning of our Saviour Christ by mis-applying to Michael and all Angels in the highest Heaven the victory that Christ hath and daily doth and will every day more and more give to true Christians that doe follow him fighting his battell against Antichrist ANSWER Here is againe another small dram of your little Charity the accusation is the same with a former and the exposition not agreeing with the scope of the Prophecy For if you study the Revelation throughly you will finde this to be a vision of the Primitive times and not to be extended so low as Antichrist or to the successe of sound Christians fighting against him Besides as for the Churches meaning you might have soberly judged this to be the meaning of the Church in ordering to have this Scripture read at the time appointed That albeit Christ be figured and signified to vs under the type of Michael yet even the Angell Michael is understood to have appeared in the vision shewed to S. John with an host of other Angels fighting against the Dragon and his Angels representing thereby Christ with his heavenly Angels and his servants on earth to sight against the Devill with his Angels and wicked complices and to prevaile against them as was historically fulfilled in the dayes of Constantine who with his souldiers did undoubtedly fight under Christs banner and was incouraged thereunto by miracle and thereby made Generall upon Earth of this holy warfare for behold a bright Crosse appeared in the Heavens about mid-day with this inscription on it * Vide lib. 1. de vita Constant cap. 22. In hoc signo vinces under this ensigne thou shalt overcome The truth of which miracle was confirmed to Eusebius by Oath even from Constantine himself And at the sight of this Constantine being admonished of the Christian Religion suffered himselfe to be taught in Christianity and had the Banners of his Souldiers proportioned according to the fashion of the Crosse with two Greek letters X and P made upon them which should stand to signifie the name of Christ After all which when the warre was ended the divine providence thus ordering these occurrences that thereby we might learn the accomplishment of this Prophesie he took order that a table should be hanged up on high over the gates of his Palace wherein a Dragon was painted which lay thrust through with a Dart under his own and his Subjects feet as a little before I have already mentioned and do now cite for my Authors Eusebius Socrates and Theodoret. Euseb de vit Const lib. 3. cap. Socrat. lib. 1. c. 6. Theod. lib. 1. cap. 15. In every of which places of the said authors the story mentioned stands recorded AND thus hitherto I have followed you step by step and balked nothing which your pretions Dialogue hath afforded You make a sally next against new Orders which because they are upon their tryall I passe them over heartily wishing that under the feare of hatching Popery we may be better setled then to part with piety For whilest these things have been in question the ruder sort are every day more and more irreverent But the God of Heaven put it into the hearts of the high Court of Parliament to look into it and to make the whole kingdome know that the Lord is King both of Heaven and Earth and therefore more to be honoured then any King nay then all Kings else * Psal 99.1 The Lord is King saith David be the people never so unpatient he sitteth between the Cherubins be the Earth never so unquiet a Ps 96 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 Declare his honour unto the heathen and his wonders unto all the people For the Lord is great and cannot worthily be praysed he is more to be feared then all Gods As for the Gods of the heathen they are but Idols but it is the Lord that made the Heavens Glory and worship are before power and honour are in his Sanctuary Ascribe unto the Lord oh yee kindred of the people ascribe unto the Lord worship and power Ascribe unto the Lord the honor due unto his name bring presents and come into his Courts O worship the Lord in the beauty of holinesse let all the Earth stand in aw of him b Ps 122.1 I was glad when they said unto me let us go into the house of the Lord. c Ps 93.6 Thy testimonies O Lord are sure Holinesse becommeth thine house forever d Psal 95 6. O come let us worship and fall down and kneele before the Lord our Maker e Ps 86.8,9,10 Among the Gods there is none like unto thee O Lord there is none that can doe as thou dost All nations that thou hast made shall come and worship thee O Lord and shall glorifie thy name For thou art great and dost wondrous things thou art God alone f Psal 5.7 I will come into thy house in the multitudes of thy mercy and in thy feare will I worship towards the Temple of thy holinesse g Ps 63,2,3,4,5,6 My Soule thirsteth for thee my flesh also longeth after thee in a barren and dry land where no water is Thus have I looked for thee in holinesse that I might behold thy power and glory For thy loving kindnesse is better then the life it self my lips shall praise thee As long as I live will I magnifie thee on this manner and lift up my hands in thy name My Soule shall be satisfied even as it were with marrow and fatnesse when my mouth praiseth thee with joyfull lips h Ps 74.2,3,4,5,6,7 O thinke upon thy Congregation whom thou hast purchased and redeemed of old Thinke upon the
man examine himselfe and so let him eat of this Bread and drinke of this Cup. Hugo might have seen it and not have made all eases alike notwithstanding which peremptory assertion of his the Church of Rome left the matter still at liberty yea though Peter Lombard were mightily for it For Gratian who lived and flourished at the same time with Lombard determineth nothing definitively but shewing sentences for either side both that we must confesse our sins to the Priest and not confesse them doth leave it indifferently unto the Readers judgement After whom followed Lotharius Levita a Doctor of Paris the scholler and earnest follower of Peter Lombard who being once made Bishop of Rome and named Innocent the third made a law for it in the Councell of Literan which Gregory the ninth reciteth in his Decretall of Penance and Remission the fift booke and twelfth Chapter to this effect Let every person of either sexe after they are come to the yeares of discretion faithfully confesse alone at least * Semel in animo in the Latine for semel in anno once in a yeare their sinnes unto their owne proper Priest and doe their indeavour with their owne strength to doe the penance that is injoyned them receiving reverently at Easter at the least the Sacrament of the Eucharist unlesse peradventure by the councell of their owne Priest for some reasonable cause they thinke it good for a time to absteine from receiving it Otherwise in this life let them be prohibited to enter into the Church and when they are dead to be buried in Christian buriall This is that new Law which in their little pretty Councell of Trent was further enlarged and more errours added to their abused practice of Absolution But let not the Antichristian abuse of this divine Ordinance abolish the lawfull use thereof betwixt good Christians and their Pastours when need and occasion is to have it used And so I leave this point and come next to give answer unto something else DIALOGUE Gent. Why will they not suffer the Genealogy of Christ to be read to the people Min. They have no warrant for it from God but from the Pope who saith that ignorance is the Mother of devotion therefore the Genealogy of Christ is forbidden to be read of purpose to keepe the people in blindnesse not able to see the truth of God in fulfilling his promise to Abraham and to David that Christ should come of them and of their seed nor to see that Christ came not only of Abraham and of David who were Jewes but also of Rahab and of Ruth who were Gentiles and that therefore Christ is not a Saviour of the Jewes only but also of us Gentiles ANSWER Your judgement is too rash to be credited too rash good man I dare assure you If you had said that the Genealogies were lesse edifying then other scripture and therefore omitted your reason had been of more authority and better agreeing to what is mentioned in the order before the Kalender For tell me I beseech you whether those Instructions and Lessons which you gather from hence are manifest upon the bare reading and if not as for certaine they be not then why should you dare to accuse the Church of such a wicked purpose as to intend the keeping of the people in blindnesse DIALOGUE Gent. Why is the Booke of Canticles forbid to be read Min. It is also forbid of purpose to keep the people in blindenesse not able to see the ardent love and affection of Christ towards them least thereby they should be stirred up to love Christ and to be zealous of his glory and to abhorre the Pope and his Antichristian Religion ANSWER An heape of slanders still Here you take the like liberty to judge that you did before a thing nothing strange to men of your Sect I should else have wondred that you could not have thought the reading of this book to be omited for some other reason which if need were t is like enough I could lay before you But I passe it over and shall only tell you that Preaching may explaine what reading cannot And therefore till you hear Ministers forbidden to open in their Sermons either this book or the other Scriptures that you mention you may right worthy Sir sit worshipfully down and hold your peace DIALOGUE Gent. Why are the bookes of Kings and of Chronicles forbid Min. Because they doe shew that godly Kings did ever love Gods true Prophets and did hearken unto them and were zealous in maintaing the true Religion and in suppressing Idolatry ANSWER You should speak the truth and shame the Devill At the entrance of these accusations although I passed it by because I might here declare it you said that both the Bookes of the Kings except the eight first Chapters of the first Book were forbidden but look again and you will finde it otherwise If your eyes be dim you may use your Spectacles for the truth is that both the books are appointed to be read throughout excepting those eight Chapters which you mention and not vice versa for that 's false And because the Books of the Chronicles do relate the same stories which are written in the Books of the Kings it is sufficient to appoint the reading of the one although the other be omitted DIALOGUE Gent. Why is the Book of the Revelation forbid ANSWER You grant this booke also to be forbidden and yet you know that we have Lessons taken out of the Revelations and read upon Saint Johns day as also upon the day of All-Saints besides Epistles taken from thence and appointed to be read on Trinity Sunday Michaelmasse day and Innocents day Know all men therefore by these presents that you plainly shew your selfe no better then a false accuser In the next place you fall foule upon Bishops and besprinkle them with the durt which your Spleen hath raised only you doe a little qualifie your distast towards them that suffered Martyrdome in the dayes of Queen Mary but like not their love to the Book of Common Prayer thinking your selfe to be more illuminated then were they notwithstanding they laid down their lives in defence of the truth in denying the Popes usurped supremacy and for not granting the Bread and Wine in the Lord Supper to be the Body and Blood of Christ All the rest since have been odious unto you their remembrance loathsome and judged to be men destitute of the true feare of God Their Prelacy dislikes you and your language against them is just as was the language of Corath Dathan and Abiram in the dayes of old against Moses and Aaron Num. 16.3 Diotrephes was one also who would not receive the Apostles but prated against them with malicious words as Saint John hath told us Epist 3. v. 9 10. and because this pert man that thus prated against them could not be above them he slights them and labours for preeminence But what say the