Kneeling there may rightly be iudged both a grosse mocking of Christ as was the souldiers their bowing of Knees before him and is the taking of the name God in vaine But what is this to our Kneeling here in England at the participation of the blessed Sacrament where all things are by authoritie enioined to be done both respectiuely reuerently and with due deuotion voide of superstition Schis Did Naaman newly brought to the knowledge of God attribute so much to the bowing in the house of Rimmon when his master leaned on him so that it was not his voluntarie action and shall we who haue had the Gospel long Kneeling by institution and determination in a principal part of Gods seruice make no account whether we honor God or no by Kneeling Pro. Naaman the Assyrian neither voluntarily would nor forcible could be drawne to commit Idolatrie whose example may teach vs all whether old Professors or new Conuerts to keepe our selues free from all Idolatrous pollutions Naaman after his conuersion came if he did come into the house of Rimmon and bowed as wee come into our Churches and Kneele but yet neither be our Churches as the house of Rimmon neither bow wee so much as before Idols much lesse idolatrously when we participate of the sacred mysteries And though by institution and determination of the Church when we take eate and drinke we Kneele yet by our said kneeling we doe honor God in this principall part of his seruice your selfe hath acknowledged the gesture of Kneeling to be the most solemne signe of reuerence we do say the same SECT 3. Whether Kneeling at the Communion be a wil-worship Schis IF Kneeling be instituted for a more reuerent receiuing then it must be either in regard of God or of bread and wine Pro. Not of bread and wine Sch. If in regard of God then must we be wel perswaded that such kneeling is an acceptable seruice vnto his maiestie Pro. We are so perswaded or ought so to be els in Kneelieg we sinne yea as you say it cannot be without sinne For whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne Schis That this may be we must consider whether such Kneeling be a wil worship or a seruice reasonable and according to Gods will lest otherwise we find ourselues so farre from honoring God as that we prouoke him as did Nadab Abihu who offered incense but not the verie fire which God appointed were therfore deuoured with fire And as did king Dauid and the Priests who caried the Arke otherwise then it ought to haue beene and therefore Vzza died for it with a sodaine death For God will be sanctified if not by yet in all them that come neere him Pro. Our kneeling is no will worship but a seruice reasonble according to Gods will as be all the ecclesiasticall ordinances whatsoeuer not besides or contrarie to the reuealed will of God Such constitutions I call not humane tradition saith Bullinger because they are deriued from the diuine Scripture not deuised in the braine of man and vsed of her viz. the Church which hearkneth vnto the voice of her only shepheard acknowledging not the voice of others For example the Church commeth together to heare Gods word vnto publique praiers both in the morning euening at appointed houres as is commodious for euery place people and that is in stead of a law Againe the Church hath supplications holy-holy-dayes and publque fasts vnder certaine lawes The Church moreouer at certaine times in a certain place and prescribed maner celebrateth the sacraments that according to the lawes and receiued custome of the Church The Chuch likewise baptizeth infants remoueth not women from the Lords Supper and this she hath for a law By her deputed Iudges the Church determineth in causes matrimoniall and in these things hath certaine lawes But all these other like these she draweth from the general scriptures and for edification sake applieth them to places times and persons whereby wee may indeed behold in sundrie Churches a diuersitie of formes but no discord at all So that worthy man And agreeably hereunto the Church of Sweathland Quae cum Scriptura cōsonant those constitutions which agree with the Scripture be ordained for the bettering of maners benefite of mankind albeit according to the verie word they be not expressed in the Scriptures yet in as much as they proceede from the generall precept of Loue which hath ordained all things in most comely order they deserue to be esteemed diuine rather then humane constitutions c. Many such truly the Church doth lawfully obserue at this day and as occasion also is ministred appointeth new which whoso shall reiect the words are memorable he doth despise the authority not of men but of God whose tradition it is whatsoeuer is commodious And so they whose words haue passed vncensured by the publishers of the Harmonie of the Churches confessions If you then can shew no word of God to the contrarie we cannot but hold the order for Kneeling to bee the ordinance of God And therefore the example by you cited of Nadab Abihu and Vzza trouble not vs who conscionably do Kneele and keepe the orders of a most reformed Church but may pierce your heart and the rest of our new Recusants the separated brotherhood who obstinately despise and violate the ordinances of our Church allowed because no where disallowed in the booke of God SECT 4. Whether Christ his example in euerie thing at the ministration of the Communion is necessarily to be followed Schis BVt Kneeling is contrarie to the example of Christ and his Apostles Pro. Well may kneeling differ but surely it is contrarie to none example of theirs Schis They ministred and receiued Sitting or in such a gesture as in those Countries was most vsed at eating Pro. The truth is you cannot directly say how the Lords supper was ministred or receiued in Christ and his Apostles daies and therefore you say how by them it was ministred and receiued Sitting Schis From his example to differ without warrant from Gods word cannot be without fault Pro. Nay rather to bind vs necessarily to the example of Christ in all ceremoniall matters without warrant from Gods word cannot be without great offence Schis Examples of holy men much more of Christ are to be followed except there be some reasonable cause to the contrarie Pro. True Schis The Apostle to reforme an abuse which crept euen in their times into Loue feasts which were immediatly before or after the Lords Supper did banish them thence and reduced the maner of administring the Lords Supper to the first institution saying Shall I praise you in this I praise you not For I haue receiued of the Lord which I haue also deliuered vnto you Pro. The Loue-feasts abused by the Corinthians were spoken against by the Apostle not because they were feasts or feasts of Loue made after or before the receiuing the
Ministers to the whole Church of England And if some Communicants do sit all the time of prayer and after fall downe on their knees when the bread and wine is offered them such Communicants would be taught told that as in this their Kneeling they do that which both the lawes of our Church doth require and also pleaseth God so their not Kneling all the time of praier is a most euident argument how they neither approch vnto the Supper of the Lord with such preparation as is requisite nor being come doe be haue themselues as they should For sure I am and you cannot denie if aduisedly you mark the order of our Communion booke that albeit the Minister is directed somtimes to Kneele sometimes to Stand and neuer to Sit yet the people are by the said booke to Sit neuer but alwayes to Kneele from the first to the last THE EIGHT OBIECTION S. IT is vrged being an humane inuention aboue the commandement of God R. Our Kneeling in the receiuing of the Lords Supper is not an inuention proceeding meerly from the wit inuention of man but as afore hath beene said is so from man as withall it is the inuention and institution of God Quaeritar saith master Caluin writing about Kneeling at solemne praiers and may as well be referred to Kneeling at the solemne receiuing of the supper of the Lord it is demanded whether it be a tradition of man which euery man may lawfully refuse or neglect Now marke his answere I say saith he that it is so of man as it is also of God It is of God in respect that it is a part of that comelinesse the care and keeping whereof is commanded vnto vs by the Apostle It is of man in regard that it specially betokeneth that which had in generalitie rather beene pointed to then declared So Caluin And this the Church both lawfully may and commendably doth vrge and call for at our hands S. It is vrged aboue the commandement of God Ergo Math. 15. 3 4 5. 6. R. How proue you the Antecedent S. I proue it thus The Minister is to bee suspended for giuing the bread and wine to a communicant not Kneeling but not for giuing them to a Communicant that neither can nor will examine himselfe before he eateth and drinketh at the Lords table Ergo. R. Your Antecedent is true in part and in part not so True it is that the Minister is to bee suspended for giuing the bread and wine to a Communicant that can and wil not kneele and his punishment is deserued For vnworthie is he to minister that refuseth to obserue the orders of that Church whereof he is a Minister Caluin himselfe was not onely suspended but also expulsed from the ministerie at Geneua and that for his stubborn refusing to administer the Lords Supper according to the order of that Church There is no Church vnder the Sunne but will haue the rites ceremonies there established to be inuiolably kept both of Minister and people Againe the Antecedent is vntrue For though Ministers bee not suspendable for giuing the Sacrament vnto many that wil not examine themselues afore hand why should they seeing neither Gods word nor mans law doth impose such a charge vpon any Minister namely to examin all Communicants who are to examine themselues yet some that will not themselues examine as notorious offenders Schismatikes the like they are not to admit vnto the holy Communion no more then they are to receiue the prophane Sitters and if they doe admit such they are to be inquired after and punished by the lawes of our Church Besides Ministers bee to admit neither ignorant ideots nor yong Infants or children that cannot examine themselues For if they do there is punishment by our lawes appointed for them as well as for those that allow the refractarie Sitters to participate at the holy table though the punishment be neither the same nor so soone inflicted S. You will say peraduenture that the breach of the peace of the Church is to be punished seuerely R. You know that where the offence is not small the punishment should not be light and where the disobedience is great the correction should not be small S. They breake not the peace of the Church which cleaue fast to Gods word in euerie thing with a meeke and quiet spirit R. You shall neuer be able to proue either your Sitting to be a cleaning fast to Gods word or our Kneeling to be a swaruing from the same But I haue shewen which mee thinks you should see how the same Kneeling is the lawful and laudable ordinance both of God and man euen of men of God or good men And therefore in mine opinion it can be no token either of meeke spirits highly to Sit when their brethren lowly do Kneele or of quiet minds obstinately to denie obedience to the orders and constitutions of a most renowmed and reformed Church S. The peace of the Church is more broken by transgressing a manifest and substantiall precept of God then by not obseruing a ceremonie whose lawfulnesse is questionable and therefore that should bee punished more then this R. You that will not be censured by the Church will and here doe censure the doings of a right Christian Church but from what spirit this doth proceede be your self iudge What manifest and substantiall precept of God there is which you say here is transgressed you haue not yet shewen and I would faine see And though you can name as you cannot any such commandement broken yet let me put you in minde how the violating euen of the morall and substantiall precepts of God haue sometimes and that by God himselfe in mans eies and afore the world with lesse rigor and seueritie beene punished then the contemptuous breach euen of ceremoniall ordinances For what I pray you was Adams eating the forbidden fruit the Bethshemites prying into the Ark of God Vzza his touching of the same Vzziah his offering of incense the mans gathering of stickes vpon the Sabbath day but violations or breaches of lawes not absolutely morall in themselues but either typical or ceremonial and yet what sinnes were euer so punished as some of them what more horrible in Gods eies then all of them In the new testament touching the Supper of the Lord which we haue now in hand the Apostle saith That whosoeuer shall eat this bread c. vnworthily shall be guiltie of the body blood of the Lord eateth and drinketh his own damnation c. procureth weaknes sicknes and bodily death Now who were they in that Church and at that time which did eate vnworthily and therefore were so chastised were they not such as transgressed and would not obey nor keepe the receiued orders of Gods people and despised his Church euen the publique place appointed for Gods worship Like vnto those that wil receiue Sitting when by order
established they should take the Communion Kneeling Wilfull open Schismatikes do more offend the church then either priuie heretiques which secretly vndermine the truth or close malefactors whatsoeuer their transgressions be and therefore deserue the sharper castigation Before Kneeling by authoritie was enioined it was lawfull for vs and all men to question about the lawfulnesse thereof but being once appointed now to resuse to bow sauoureth not of his spirit which said If any man be contentious we haue no such custome nor the Church of God And therefore he that shall say how that should be more punished then this being no Prince nor called to counsell passeth the limits both of discretion and modestie finding fault with that which he cannot iustly mislike and ought rather with a meeke and readie minde to performe then masterly to controll For what are you or I that wee should condemne the publique and allowed orders of our Church in matters indifferent and ceremoniall and whose lawfulnesse euen by your last wordes is questionable OBIECTION 9. S. IT is so doubtfull and disputable to say no more that a man can not haue faith in the doing of it Ergo. Rom. 14. 22 23. R. He that shall marke your words considerately will hardly thinke that you are of mind how it is a thing questionable doubtfull and disputable whether to Kneele in the receiuing the Supper of the Lord be lawfull or no. For you say expresly that a man for his Kneeling cannot haue faith and so in Kneeling sinneth which is the worst that can bee said thereof Besides you insinuate that hauing said your worst you could yet say more against the same which would bee knowen But whatsoeuer you either thinke or haue said or can say we would ye should know that we are of mind that our Gouernours do well haue Gods word for their warrant â—n commanding vs to Kneele and that we do not ill neither sinne in obeying their commandements For we are verely perswaded in our consciences that we please God in kneeling should sin did we Sit not Kneele as many do For Gods word is both for the approbation of all things making for order comelines and edification in the Church of which nature we are out of doubt and haue prooued our Kneeling is and against all disorders and vndecent gestures tending to the decay of godly deuotion in Christian people as the inreuerent I say not irreligious Sitting at the Lords table as at a common and prophane banquet seemeth to be and is Wherefore I do thus argue against you That for the doing whereof a man may haue faith is to be done But for his Kneeling in the receiuing the holy Supper a man may haue faith Therefore it is to be done or we are to Kneele in the receiuing the Supper of the Lord. And against your Sitting I doe thus reason and cut you with your owne knife That for the doing whereof no man among vs can haue faith is not to be done but for his Sitting in the receiuing the holy Supper of the Lord no man among vs can haue faith Therefore it is not to be done or vsed The proposition is your owne or rather S. Pauls The Assumption is iustifiable for you haue no warrant from Gods word nor mans law for Sitting as we haue for Kneeling yea by this your Sitting a triple fault is committed For first Sitting at the receiuing the Lords Supper is without ground of Scripture yea is flat against Gods word because it is against publique order vndecent and tendeth both to the nourishing of strife among brethren and engendreth confusion among vs all Next it is directly opposite to the publique ordinance of our Church And lastly it is very offensiue both to the whole State and to millions of Gods people who like well and allow of Kneeling and mislike of Sitting at the Supper of the Lord. S. They which mislike of Kneeling in the act of receiuing both in England and in other reformed Churches are neither few nor vnlearned nor vngodly R. Now reason you from examples which kind of reasoning is of no validitie Be it you haue ten thousand in this land and of them a thousand neither vnlearned nor vngodly Ministers yet are they but priuate men against an whole State One singular man bringing only the Scriptures of God for the maintenance of his opinion is of regard when all these are not without Gods word conflicting with a whole Church And as for Churches reformed in other places I know there be that like better of their owne Sitting or Standing according to the fashions of their seuerall countries yet cannot you name any one of them all that mislikes of our Kneeling S. Your argument from the authority of the Church is only probable not demonstratiue and so vnable to breed faith R. I haue proued the lawfulnes of our Kneeling by arguments more then probable drawne and deriued from the word of God and so most forceable to engender faith whereunto I will adde because examples do so pierce and preuaile with you the examples of D. Rainolds Sparkes M. Chaderton and Knewstubs who were not so wedded to their owne opinions and other mens examples at the first but they afterwards vpon better aduisement and conference with most godly and worthy men altered their minds and promised conformity euen to all things required and so to this our Kneeling whereof some of them haue left most famous and publique monuments both to their owne high praise and credit and the singular benefit of Gods people to the serious and conscionable perusall whereof and of the premises I doe verie friendly referre you S. God reueale the truth in this controuersie and grant it may bee embraced to his glorie and the peace of his Church Amen R. A good conclusion whereunto from my heart and soule I likewise do say Amen So bee it THE SECOND DIALOGVE about Kneeling in the very act of receiuing the holy Communion Betweene an humorous Schismatike and a setled Professor Confes. Sueuic Cap. 14. Ciuilibus legibus quae cum pietate non pugnant eò quisque Christianus paret pomptiùs quò fide Christi est imbutus pleniùs That is The more faith that any Christian is endued with the more obedient is he vnto all ciuill ordinances which be not contrary vnto godlinesse LONDON Printed by Henry Ballard dwelling on Adling-hill 1608. The contents of the second Dialogue Whether Kneeling at the Communion be an institution of man or no. Sectio 1. Whether Kneeling be vsed without all respect of reuerence vnto God in the Church of England Sect. 2. Whether Kneeling at the Communion be a wil-worshippe Sect. 3. Whether Christ his example in euery thing at the ministration of the Communion is necessary to be followed Sect. 4. Whether our Kneeling be Popish and Idolatrous Sect. 5. Whether Kneeling hindreth the sweete familiarity betweene Christ and his Church Sect. 6. Whether Christ sat of purpose Sect. 7.
TWO DIALOGVES OR CONFERENCES ABOVT an old question lately renued and by the Schismaticall company both by printed Pamphlets and otherwise to the disturbance of the Churches quiet and of peaceable minds very hotly pursued Concerning Kneeling in the very act of receiuing the Sacramental bread and wine in the Supper of the Lord. The former Betweene two Ministers of the word the one refractarie and depriued the other not so The latter Betweene an humorous Schismatike and a setled professor 1. COR. 1. 20. Where is the wise where is the Scribe where is the disputer of this world 1. COR. 11. 16. If any man lust to be contentious we haue no such custome nor the Churches of GOD. Printed by HENRY BALLARD 1608. The points in the first Dialogue discussed Whether in the ministring and receiuing the Communion wee are necessarily to imitate Christ. Obiection 1. Whether Kneeling at the receiuing the holy Communion hath an apparance of euill Obiect 2. Whether Kneeling at the Sacrament be a monument of Idolatry Obiect 3. Whether Kneeling c. bee a iust offence giuen to the weake Obiect 4. Whether Kneeling c. do strengthen the Papists in their bread-worship Obiect 5. Whether Kneeling c. bee a meere institution of man Obiect 6. Whether Kneeling c. be a breach of the second Commandement Obiect 7. Whether Kneeling c. be vrged aboue the commandement of God Obiect 8. Whether no man that Kneeleth can haue faith Obiect 9. TO THE RIGHT REuerend Father in God Thomas by the diuine prouidence Bishop of London his very honorable good Lord. Right reuerend IT is a most true and memorable saying of that ancient eloquent learned Father Saluianus B. of Massilia that to fal into the error of a false opinion though ignorantly before a man doth know the truth is a token of a mind rude and simple but to perseuere in error after one hath bin told and admonished of the same is an argument of a pertinacious froward disposition So S. Augustine Aliquid aliter sapere to relish a thing otherwise then it is is an humane tentation and infirmitie but for a man too much to be inamored with his owne conceit or enuying his betters to come vnto the sacriledge euen of renting asunder the communion of the Church and of erecting of schisme or heresie it is diabolical presumption And yet this frowardnes or pertinacy or diuellish pride and presumption is so ingraffed in the hearts of most men as Erasmus hath obserued and experience doth proue vnto vs as what once they haue apprehended they will euer hold and what they haue published they will not reuoke be it neuer so offensiue and in their owne conscience erroneous and vntrue Erasmus doth well note how most natures be stiffe in maintenance of their singular and selfe conceited fantasies God be thanked all men be not so For of all professions sects and sorts of men euen from the beginning since learning and wisedome by writing or bookes hath bin made knowne and obuious there haue neuer bin wanting some who haue bin inspired with such grace and good motions as that they haue very ingenuously acknowledged their scapes and willingly submitted vnto the trueth when it hath bin reuealed vnto them howsoeuer afore they were otherwise minded and aduersaries thereunto So did Quintilian yea and Tullie too afore him change their iudgements in points of Rhetoricke so did Hippocrates that so renowned Physition in matters of Physick so Cornelius Agrippa about his hidden Philosophy Orpheus that Polytheian sang a palinodie acknowledging one God at the length who defended a multitude of Gods at the first and S. Augustine too when his gray haires were growen most conscionably and to his eternall fame and honor very wisely corrected and retracted what in his greene yeres in considerately he had broched Neither in the times long past onely but in this latter age also of the world wherein we liue haue such good spirits appeared Theodorus Gaza for learning a rare man almost peerelesse had his proper and peculiar errors which when he saw he was not ashamed to reuoke them and to alter his iudgement vpon the admonition of Trapezuntius Yea and Theodorus Beza no meane man neither in his time as he was not without his faults so had he not the face to iustifie or stand stiffe in them but very Christianly and as one studious to keepe a good conscience both before God and man grewe into an vtter detestation of and amended them with points too of doctrine that gaue offence as our Whitakers doth say Of whose mind had Heliodorus Bishop somtime of Trice bin when it was he had comfortably enioyed still a faire and fat Bishopricke which fondly hee did forgoe because he would not consent to the burning of certaine amorous and prophane inuentions penned by the said Heliodorus in his youth but for their vilenes by an whole Synod or Conuocation of Bishops and other clergy men condemned to the fire as Nicephorus doth record I spare to speake of Luther Melancton Caluin and other learned men neither few nor of meane account among all reformed Churches and people who preferring Gods glory before popular praise haue satisfied good men and made publike amends for some things vnaduisedly published Neither haue there bin wanting some such among our selues God be thanked Ah gentlemen saith a late writer in this kingdome that liue to read my broken and confused lines looke not that I should as I was wont delight you with vaine fantasies but gather my follies together and as you would deale with so many paricides cast them into the fire call them Telegones for now they kill their Father and euery line in them written is a deepe piercing wound to mine heart euery idle houre spent by any in reading them brings a million of sorrowes to my soule O that the teares of a miserable man for neuer man was more miserable might wash their memory out with my death But sith they cannot let this my last worke witnesse against them with me how I detest them Blacke is the remembrance of my blacke workes blacker then night blacker then death blacker then hell So he and euen in these very words which would both Gentle and all men well consider of and ponder neither should the Presse and Stationers shops be abused as they are inuenting such bookes to the high dishonour of God and discredite of our Churches discipline nor men and women leauing better things addict themselues so greedily to the perusall if not studie of vanities which bring no good but woful repentance in the end The man which this vttered was himselfe a good Scholar but euen as his very words doe import a very vaine and vicious man yet euen such persons with Publicans and Harlots sometimes doe repent and to the great ioy of the holy Angels enter into the kingdome of heauen as doe Schismatikes also now and then but rarely yet and as hardly as doe rich men
in time proue springs of idolatrie and superstition if vtterly and altogether they be not rooted out These are the thoughts of the brainsicke Brownists God forbid they should continue in your mind For what haue wee al-most in and about our publique seruice which hath not serued to some idolatrous and superstitious purpose or other in former daies must all such things therefore vtterly be abolished taken away Is it necessarie they should is it possible they can be remoued But what makes all this for the profe that either our Kneeling is superstitious or the Papists to be strengthned thereby in their Bread-worship and Idolatrie when by reason you cannot proue it if you can by experience S. Since this Kneeling and other things deuised or abused by the Papists haue been so strictly vrged they haue growne exceedingly in number in boldnes affirming that we are now come to sup of their broth and ere it be long we will eate of their meate R. Lamentable experience doth tell vs how the Papists haue but too exceedingly increased the more is the pitie but to ascribe the cause thereof so peremptorily vnto the strict vrging of conformitie and obedience vnto our Churches orders is more then he should doe which is not of the counsell of God I should rather and peraduenture do thinke that the obstinate refusing to Kneele and keepe the customes and maners of our Church doth not only hold backe many papists from ioyning with vs but also cause the number of Recusants to increase For is it likely that they being naturally but too strict precise obseruers of outward ceremonies themselues wil euer brooke that Church and people where wilful and refractarie men either bee not punished at all or but lightly and loosely censured Whefore though we cannot let them to increase which is the iust punishment of God for our abusing the inestimable treasure of his word yet would yet should they lesse abound did either priuate persons yeeld more obedience to the lawfull Iniunctions of authoritie or others being froward and incortigible publique officers more strictly vrge them thereunto And would you which I wish you would by your selfe note consider how these Papists doe laugh in their sleeues to heare of the hot and eager contention that is among vs about this kneeling and such other matters it would make you to weepe and doth cause me to sigh when I think therof as not seldome I doe Away therefore brother S. with this conceit that the strict vrging of conformitie encourageth the Papists this preconceit hath done much hurt and not onely keepeth backe many from concurring with their brethren in due obedience but also encourageth increaseth the dangerous faction of our home Brownists But this you will neuer put away so long as you are of mind which I pray God to alter that this Kneeling of ours was either deuised at the first or abused afterwards by the Papists and that nothing abused though not deuised by them may either be well vsed of inferiors or strictly vrged by the superior power when they are established No Papists I think wil affirm which you say that in Kneeling at the holy Communion we sup of their broth Our Kneeling hath as much resemblance of their adoring as our Communion affinitie with their Masse We sup not of their broth at our Communion no more then they drinke of the Lords cup at their Masse There is as little hope God be thanked that we shall eate of their meate as that they will feed of our Banquets THE SIXT OBIECTION S. IT is a worship of God deuised by man Ergo. Mat. 15. 9. Col. 2. 22. 23. R. So is Sitting so is Standing at the Communion a worshipping of God Howbeit none can truly say of Kneeling at the Lords table that it is a meere deuice of man as Sitting among vs is For it is so an humane as withall it is a diuine institution This gesture is of God because it belongeth vnto religious prayer vnto God and thankesgiuing though appointed by man and from men yet not from the idle sconce of man but from men illuminated by the holy Ghost from men of God S. If you denie it to bee a worship of God I could proue it R. I doe not denie it to be a worshipping or that in kneeling we doe worship God yet how proue you so much S. Thus. It is a bowing of the knee for a religious vse namely to shew our inward reuerence towards Christ whose bodie and blood are represented by bread and wine Ergo. R. Ergo What Ergo no adoration is it or shew of adoration of bread and wine which afore you affirmed say I. S. That is not my meaning but Ergo vnlawfull and not to be done say I. R. Vnlawfull Proue that S. The places of Scripture to that purpose are many R. Cite some of them S. Thou shalt not bowe downe to them nor worship them Exod. 20. 5. R. By this kind of gesture all kind of seruice and worship vnto idoles is forbidden which being so vnlesse you can proue which you shall neuer doe the bread and wine at our Communions to be idoll and also that in kneeling we doe seruice and worship vnto bread and wine you shall neuer make our kneeling at the receiuing of those creatures to be vnlawfull What is the next place of Scripture to this purpose S. It is out of the 95. Psalme where the Psalmist doeth say Come let vs worship and fall downe and kneele before the Lord our maker Psal. 95. 6. R. This maketh for our kneeling but proueth not the same vnlawfull The Papists do say that As often as any man seeeth that body viz. of their Lord and maker at the Masse or borne about to the sicke he shall kneele down deuoutly and say his Pater-noster or some other good prayer in worship of his soueraigne Lord Kneeled we downe when wee take the bread and wine with Popish thoughts and deuotion imagining our Lord and Maker vnder the formes of bread and wine reallie and locallie to be there present we then did against the expresse wordes of the Psalmist who doth exhort vs to worship and fall downe before the Lord our maker and not before the workes of our owne hands but comming thereunto with religious and Christian meditations we worship fall down and kneele before the Lord our maker euen when kneeling we receiue the Sacrament S. Yet will I leaue seuen thousand in Israel euen all the knees that haue not bowed vnto Baal and euery mouth that hath not kissed him saith the Lord. 1. Kings 19. 18. R. Why mention you this place To proue vs who at the Communion doe kneele to be like the Baalites Or why mention you this place To prooue your selues that refuse to kneele to be the seuen thousand pure ones in England free from all contagion of idolatry and superstition If to the former end then iudge you most badly of the whole State as
a thing lawlesse without rule and sinners in Gods â—ies be as disordered and lawlesse men whom neither Gods word nor mans law can rule or make obedient Hence the Beniamites which defloured the Leuits wife and the Prophet Helies children are called the Sonnes or men of Belial Hence the Papistes abroad whose chiefest religon is mans tradition and Schismatikes at home the authors and abettors of confusion in the Church be Belials sonnes Christ hath no communion with Belial nor Christians with the sonnes of Belial either the idolatrous Papists or the lawlesse Schismatikes these hauing separated themselues from vs because of our orderly Kneeling and obedience wee hauing seuered our selues from the other for their manifest impieties Schis Come out and touch no vncleane thing are the wordes of the Apostle which either he wrote without warrant or we must sinne in Kneeling Pro. God bee thanked we haue fulfiled the Apostles words we are come out wee haue left Babylon and next we doe as little touch tast or see any idolatrous pollutions or haue communion with that which is vncleane in our Kneeling as you or any others in your owne opinion neuer so pure and reformed haue either in Sitting bowing or Standing by which sites of body idolatrie hath beene and is committed as well as by Kneeling They which onely and alwaies commit idolatrie bee not they which Kneele for then neuer should we Kneele but wee commit idolatrie and neuer should any commit idolatrie but such as Kneele both which to bee false our experience doth tell vs who find that both the most religious most deuoâ—t doe Kneele when they serue their God and the most idolatrous and superstitious the Papistes only excepted do neuer Kneele at their chiefest exercises of their deuotions Thinke therefore iudiciously of our Kneeling as it deserueth and neither condemne any men for Kneeling if they so do not idolatrouslie or superstitiouslie nor appooue them which Kneele if thereby they dishonour God Blame the Papists who by their Kneeling doe the greatest idolatrie that can bee but blame not vs which most sincerely thereby do serue God Christ not being more opposite to Belial than is the Popish masse to our Communion and the manner of administration of the same albeit both the Papists and we of the Church of England in receiuing they of their Masse we of the Communion in kneeling be like Schis Doth not God straightly forbid vs to serue him as idolaters doe their Gods Pro. You know or should not be ignorant how God had prescribed vnto his people the Israelites a certaine forme and manner how he would of them be worshipped whereunto whosoeuer should adde or any thing take or varie from the same hee was liable to Gods heauie wrath and displeasure The Israelites were faultie herein and therefore great and most grieuous were the punishments not onely threatned but inflicted also by God vpon the people of Israel for their disobedience But we Christians haue onely generall rules no speciall forme of seruice giuen vs by Christ as the Israelites had an assertion so true as some of you Sectaries haue a fancy that because God hath set downe none such in his word the Church therefore should be bound to none at all no not so much as to a forme of prayer and haue euen made praiers against ordinary and common praiers When God therefore hath left vs free blame vs not as Idolaters if differing from Papists in their Idolatrie wee be like vnto them in some indifferent ceremony or other and rather thinke though wee bee like them and they like vs in kneeling yet as they cannot be said to be good Christians and to serue God though they kneele so are not we to be counted Papists and to be Idolatrous though we kneele For by one and the same gesture both they doe worshippe their Idol and wee our Sauiour like in action most vnlike in affection neither they by Gods word iustified because they are like vs nor we condemned being in that ceremony like vnto them Schis These things considered can kneeling wherewith Papists doe honour their breaden God be honourable to Christ in his holy Sacrament Pro. Yea these things rightly considered euen kneeling wherewith the Papists do honor their breaden God may be to the honor of Christ in his holy Sacrament For by that gesture of body whereby they do worship their false God an idoll by the same do we worship the true God our Sauiour sitting at the right hand of the Father in the heauens Now let vs know at the length what the other consideration is why this kneeling is or should be so hatefull vnto God and men SECT 6. Whether Kneeling hindreth the sweet familiarity betweene Christ and his Church Schis SEcondly whereas the end of a Sacrament is to informe the outward man by sensible demonstration it pleaseth our M. Christ to vse such gesture as agreeably with bread and wine setteth out our Communion and spirituall familiarity with him and reioycing in him And therefore as he saith If any heare my voice and open the doore I will come in to him and sup with him and he with me so hee saith Many shall come from the East and West and shall sit with Abraham c. By which places it appeareth that as by Supper so by Sitting familiar reioycing or reioycing familiarity is expressed In which respect the Communion is called the Lords Supper and not a sacrifice and wee are said to bee partakers of the Lords table and not of an Altar And therefore not Kneeling but Sitting is for receiuing Pro. The end of all Sacraments is to informe not the outward onely but the inward man also by sensible demonstrations and therefore bee they called Gods visible word and seene engendring and confirming Faith and edifying the Soule as well as the Word audible and heard And as the word heard and beleeued diuersly doeth affect the soule and to diuers blessed and good purposes so doth the visible word the sacraments especially of the body and blood of Christ. For as Circumcision was a Seale of the righteousnes of Faith that is a testimonie confirming the Faith of Abraham so to euery one which worthily doth partake of the bodie and blood of Christ his verie receauing is a sealing to his faith that of Christ the body was giuen and the blood shed for his sinnes Next it teacheth them how the Sonne of God tooke on him the nature of man that by the oblation of his body and blood he might take away the sinnes of the world Besides the memorie of that sacrifice propitiatorie is made perpetual and thankes ascribed from time to time at the participating of those misteries vnto the blessed dutie By communicating at this holy Sacrament we learne moreouer and do beleeue that as the benefits of Christ are ours and doe appertaine vnto vs in so much as neither the members to the bodie nor the branches to
the vine are more inseparably conioyned than we to him he communicating vnto vs his vigor and virtue Furthermore wee testifie and make it knowne to the world how we are members of that Church which professeth and acknowledgeth how the Sonne of God by the Sacrifice of his humane bodie hath pacified God for the sinnes of man It admonisheth vs in like sort of the mutuall loue and communion which is and ought to be betweene the members of so sacred and sanctified a body Many other causes and reasons may be alleadged why this Sacrament was instituted at the first and is frequented still of Gods people whereof though the setting out of our Communion and spirituall familiaritie with him and reioycing in him be one yet it is not the onely end but many being besides many gestures in diuers respects and not one onely is required for the more seemely receauing the same externallie Againe there being many causes and ends of our receauing the holy Supper one and the same site of body neither doth remember vs nor can present and represent all those ends vnto vs and others And therefore as sitting may note our communion and familiarity so kneeling our thankfulnes vnto God But if this spirituall Communion and comfort onely be thereby signified as nothing is more vntrue yet is the same expressed by the other Sacrament of Baptisme as well as by this and represented as well by water consisting of many drops as either of wine effected of many grapes or of bread made of many graines Which Baptisme yet is neither ministred nor vrged so to be by Sitting as the Supper is Neither is our corporall foode alwaies and euery where to the greatest comfort and token of sweetest familiarity receiued Sitting but sundry writers haue their seuerall fashions in their friendly and comfortable refreshings some taking the same one way some another not all Sitting especially in the Easterne parts of the world The antient Fathers some of them called this sacrament as the Lords Supper so a Sacrifice and that which the bread and wine were set vpon as the Lords Table so an Altar Whereof saith reuerent and most learned Zanchie although that Altars serue rather and be more meete for the offering then for the ministration of the Supper yet seeing neither Christ nor his Apostles either prohibited Altars or commended vnto vs the vse of wooden tables therefore is this also of altars to bee numbred among things indifferent and free for all and euery man to vse tables either of wood or stone at his discretion prouided that all superstition be remooued For what is an Altar saieth that holy and peaceable man what is an altar but a table made of stones about which would not I contend saith hee if so be otherwise there is a consent in the true doctrine and worship of God All this hath Zanchie which we say of Kneeling and the like And would to God you would so thinke of our Kneeing and others Altars and of all things else in good vse in reformed Churches that be indifferent Then would then could you neuer say that not Kneeling and Sitting is for receiuing It had bin too much for you to haue said how not kneeling but auerring that Sitting is for receiuing as if none other gesture were for the commodious and meete receiuing thereof but Sitting is very bad The first admonitioners which so disliked Kneeling at the Communion neuer vrged their Sitting as a thing necessary as you doe saying not Kneeling but Sitting is for receiuing For say they wee make not Sitting a thing of necessity belonging to the Sacrament neither affirme wee that it may not be receiued otherwise Therefore better iudge they of these than you doe but they best of all who take them as they are things of themselues indifferent and so except authority determine otherwise like to be deemed and that as good Communion and society they haue with Christ and his Church hauing on them the wedding garment of Faith which receiue Kneeling as they which Sit so as no man for the very act of kneeling no more then of Sitting sinneth Schis We read not of any gesture of body prescribed or obserued in Circumcision and Baptisme as in the Passeouer and Supper Pro. Or obserued Had you not added these wordes I should haue thought that by your reading you had found how thereis a forme of gesture prescribed vnto Christians at their taking the holy Communion And though I shreudly coniecture you are of that minde yet being not willing to take you at the worst let vs know the reason why a gesture was obserued though not prescribed at the holy Supper which was neither prescribed nor obserued at Baptisme and Circumcision Schis Because there needeth no naturall regard to be had of any certaine gesture in the two former Sacraments so the fore-skin were cut off and water be vsed but in the other two a gesture answerable to the action is requisite Pro. It is requisit and necessary that we take and eate bread and wine at the supper of the Lord as it was requisite that the fore-skin should be cut off at Circumcision and water vsed and none other liquor at Baptisme but that a certaine gesture was either obserued or requisit at the Communion this reason sheweth not Schis God prescribed to his people when they were to flie out of Egypt the gesture of loynes girded and staues in their hands because the eating then of the Passeouer was in hast But the gesture being but for that time as may appeare by the omission thereof when the obseruation of the Passeouer was established our Master Christ who came not to breake but fulfill the Law and knew what was fittest to be done did eate the Passeouer Sitting a gesture more answerable to eating in peace than the former vsed in Egypt Pro. Because God prescribed to the Iewes a forme of taking and eating the Passeouer hath hee therefore prescribed a forme to Christians of taking and receiuing the Lords Supper The one you manifest the other I would see prooued But had our God set downe as he hath not the manner how Christians should receaue the Supper as hee ordained how the Passeouer should bee taken and eaten of the Iewes yet because you heere confesse that this forme of eating the Passeouer in processe of time was altered the Iewes now eating the same Sacrament for substance but after a new manner sitting in Christs time for so you say standing afore and yet without sinne why may not wee Christians vpon as good reasons retaining the substance change the manner after which the holy Supper was ministred and receiued in the daies of Christ Before Christ his time there were additions vnto you heard afore in Christ his time there were alterations of the manner of taking the Passe-ouer your selfe do say yet all well liked and allowed of the Lord. Had the Iewes more libertie to adde formes euen of
of the one then of the other For hee vsing both a speciall time and a certaine gesture if hee chose the one hee chose both and if his example bee of vs necessarilie to bee followed in the gesture it is to bee followed also in the time wee can no more alter the one then wee may change the other Schis That followeth not For it was vppon speciall and necessarie occasion for the Passeouer must bee eaten before the Lords Supper could be instituted in stead thereof and presently after Supper the houre came that Christ was to be betraied Pro. Be this acknowledged what hereof Schis Therefore if the Iewes transgressed not the institution of the Passeouer by changing a gesture at the first prescribed by God according to that their present occasion into another fitter for a time of rest much lesse do Christians transgresse the institution of the Lords Supper by changing the time taken by Christ vpon occasion but not prescribed into some fitter in discretion for the ordinarie celebration of the Lords Supper Pro. You haue twice now said that the Iewes changed the gesture of Standing prescribed euen by God himself at their eating the Passeouer if you had once proued your saying to make it out of doubt you had done well Other diuines not to be contemned thinke cleane otherwise namely that the Iewes and euen Christ himselfe kept the old custome of standing neuer changed the same into Sitting Non autem dubium est bee some of their words it is without doubt that Christ performed that ceremonie of eating the Passeouer Stando amictus baculum tenens Standing his loynes girded and holding a staffe in his hand But it may not bee acknowledged which now the second time also you say that their newe Sitting was fitter for a time of rest then their old Standing God hauing prescribed this Standing for a perpetuall memorie euen till the reall Passion of Christ of their suddaine and safe deliuerance from the most grieuous thraldome of theirs in Egypt But did or might the Iewes before the verie and full time was come that the said Passeouer was to take an end alter the rite and site of eating the same changing their Standing prescribed into Sitting not enioynd by God but deuised by themselues as fitter to represent their present and future rest then their former troubles may not Gods people in these dayes change the site of Christs Sitting if he did Sit which was neuer prescribed vnto Christians into Kneeling in their discretion The Iewes transgressed not the institution of the Passeouer say you by changing a gesture at the first prescribed of God and doe Christians transgresse the institution of the Supper by changing a gesture neither first nor last nor at all prescribed if practised by Christ And might Christians in former dayes lawfully change the time chosen by Christ but not prescribed into some other fitter in discretion for the ordinarie celebrating of the Lords Supper and doe Christians now offend in changing a corporall gesture no more enioined then was the time into some fitter in discretion for the celebrating of the Lords Supper in a publique Church at open publique praier and thanksgiuing Haue not Christians in these indifferent matters as great power as had the Iewes and the now liuing Christians as their forefathers And might both Iewes and Christians adde and alter formes of administring the Sacraments not changing their substance and sinne they now which in these dayes doe vse their libertie in these things after the example both of the Christians and Iewes See you not how your owne weapons doe wound your selfe Now among Christians who changed the time Schis Probably the Primitiue Church did Pro. You cannot then certainly say it you doe but probably coniecture that the Primitiue Church made the change What moueth you so to thinke Schis For euery first day of the weeke viz. the Lords day the brethren came together to breake bread that is to minister the Communion So that either they neuer met vpon the Lords day but in the Euening or els they celebrated the Communion at some other times Pro. Be it that the first day yea euerie first day of the weeke namely euery Lords day the Christians came together to breake bread that is to minister the Communion which yet is not agreed vpon among the learned yet that they so met euery first day in the day time and not in the night is but coniecturall yea that they met together in the night as well as in the day to that end the twentie of the Acts doth shew Wherupon some doe note how nocturnall meetings are not simplie and of themselues to be condemned But let it be more then probable and most certaine that the alteration of the time of ministring the Lords Supper came in while the Apostles liued yet did this ministring thereof in the day varie from Christ his ministring the same in the night and being done with good discretion the Church thereby transgressed not the institution of Christ. So without sinne was the gesture of our Sauiour changed into Kneeling whosoeuer were the authors thereof Schis But for any alteration of the gesture of Sitting especially into Kneeling there is not the least probabilitie Pro. When all the world knoweth and seeth the gesture to be altered how can you say it is not probable that it was altered And though it bee not apparent and if you will too not probable that the Apostles altered the gesture and that into Kneeling yet it is most certaine and more then probable that Apostolicall men endued with the holy Spirit were both alterers at the first and vsers afterward of that seemely gesture SECT 9. Whether the prayer at the deliuerie of the bread and wine be iustifiable Schis IT is further obiected that we may Kneele in regard of prayers to be vsed by prescription of authoritie at the deliuerie of the bread and wine viz. The bodie of our Lord Iesus Christ which was giuen for thee preserue thy bodie and soule vnto eternall life and take and eat this c. Pro. What is your answere Schis Hereunto these answers may be returned Pro. Which be they Schis First seeing wee reiect Christ his example of Sitting for Kneeling wee must not stand vpon what wee may doe but humblie consider what wee must doe Pro. Those Christians which Kneele doe no more reiect Christ his example of Sitting then doe you reiect it in ministring the Communion to women priuatly and many wayes besides otherwise then he did If euerie action of Christ be a necessarie iniunction binding Christians to the imitation of the same so as they may not varie therefrom in their discretion but they sinne that which you haue said of the Christians celebrating of the Supper in the day deserueth the same reproofe which this Kneeling doeth both swaruing from this example but surely neither of them tending to Gods dishonour nor against his will But what incenseth
words contrary to his mind Schis For hee did first blesse or pray and after gaue the Elements in a Sacramentall forme of words without any addition saying Take eate c. which order of administration and forme of words Matthew Marke Luke and Paul doe so constantly precisely and sincerely relate that any may perceiue the meaning of the Spirit to bee That the Sacramentall forme of words ought to be obserued without any addition and the rather because Paul beginneth his relation thus I haue receiued of the Lord that which I haue also deliuered c. Pro. We stand against the Papists wee stand likewise against you Schismatikes that in the ministration of the holy Supper we keepe vs most precisely to the institution of Christ neither shall you nor they euer proue that wee swarue therefrom There be actions to be done of Pastors after the example of Christ there be actions of the people after the example of the Disciples there be things necessary there be accessory there be substantiall and vnmutable there be accidentall and changeable After the example of Christ Pastors are to blesse the bread and wine by calling on the Name of God and opening the institution with prayers and to breake the bread which is to be eaten and the cuppe which is to bee drunke and to deliuer both the bread and wine into the peoples hands with thankesgiuing On the other side it is the part of the flocke to examine themselues 1. To trie both their knowledge as also their faith and repentance to declare the Lords death that is by a true faith to assent vnto his word and institution last of all to eate the bread taken from the ministers hand and to drink the wine with thanksgiuing This was Pauls and the Apostle liturgie saieth Beza and is it not the liturgie of our Church at the administration of the Communion The taking of bread is necessary we take it thankesgiuing that is the sacrifice Eucharisticall is necessarie wee are thankefull the breaking of bread is necessary wee breake it the distribution of bread and wine is necessary we distribute them and that it be giuen only to the Disciples of Christ it is necessary we giue the bread and wine vnto none but Christians For all these things pertaine vnto the substance of the Supper saith Zanchie Now what of these necessary things either want we or doe we not in our Church If any thing we adde it is but for the better setting foth of the Sacrament and stirring vp of good affections which may be done very well without offence to God after the example of Gods people Iewes and Christians as afore more than once hath beene declared Hence Master Caluin so much saith hee as concerneth the outward forme of doing or ministring the Sacrament whether the faithfull receiue it viz. the bread in their hand or not whether they diuide it or euery one eate that which is giuen him whether they put the cup in the hand of the Deacon or deliuer it to the next whether the bread bee leauened or vnleauened whether the wine bee red or whit I might adde whether wee sit or kneele whether our payers and thankesgiuings bee long or short according to the times and occasions whether we vse prayers or no at the deliuerie and receiuing the elements it maketh no matter These things bee indifferent saith Caluin and left at the the libertie of the Church Whereas therefore you say that the very Sacramentall forme of wordes ought preciselie to bee obserued without any addition I say not to the sense and substance of matter but to the very words as if keeping vs to the same sense wee vse other words or more words or in another forme though to the same holy end and purpose were vnlawfull and an adding vnto Christ his institution and so a sinne liable to the heauie curse of God is doctrine strange hithereto not witnessed by the Churches of God Schis It may seeme to bee against religion and reason that to a Sacramentall forme of speech wherein the minister should only supplie the person of Christ there should be added a Prayer as in the name of the Church This confusion is fitter for Babylon than for Sion Pro. That Christ said Take eate this is my Body the Scripture doth manifest but either that Christ vsed no more words tending to prayer thankesgiuing exhortation or instruction or tied his ministers to those verie and onely wordes no scripture doth shew no writter saith but your selfe neither doth it seeme that any sound religion and little reason is in him that so saith being fitter to come from one of the brattes of Babylon than from any childe of Sion Schis Why is not a short prayer after other going before as well ioyned to the Sacramentall forme of Baptisme viz. N. I. baptize thee in the name of the Father c. Pro. The forme of Baptisme is but short the prayers and other good speeches complementing the same both going before and following after set downe in the wisedome of the Church without any speciall commandement of God are neither few nor confused and hitherto vnreprooued for ought I could euer yet heare which may teach you not cynicallie to barke against formes and fashions of administring Gods Sacraments when the matter vttered and vsed is good godly and iustifiable Schis If then this addition of prayer to the sacramentall forme of words bee not of faith how can wee with faith and a good conscience confirme or allow the same with our kneeling Pro. But if this addition to the sacramentall forme of words bee no addition to the substance of the sacrament but onely in the Churches discretion added for the greater glorie of God and comfort of the receiuers then hath it Gods words for the warrant thereof and may be well vttered and reuerently heard and assented vnto euen on our bended knees And so if there be no fault in our kneeling but because of those praiers Kneeling cannot bee faultie because the praiers be iustified SECT 10. Whether Kneeling at the Communion be a gesture indifferent Schis LAstly for iustifying of Kneeling it is affirmed that it is indifferent whether wee Sit Stand or Kneele seeing Christ did Sit when he did eate the Passeouer whereas God commanded the children of Israel in Egypt to eate the Passeouer Standing and some reformed Churches receiue Standing Therefore the King may appoint kneeling as the most reuerend gesture and best beseeming so holy an action Pro. We deeme kneeling to be a corporall site of it selfe indifferent not because Christ did sit when hee should haue stood eating the Passeouer For hee did Stand according to the first institution and not Sitte but beecause it is of the nature euen of Sitting and Standing which I thinke your selfe will not denie to be sites indifferent Besides your selfe haue acknowledged that Kneeling hath beene abused as were the Loue Feasts and therefore might afore bee well vsed as
things indifferent may Againe you haue lately giuen vs to note how kneeling of it selfe is not euill and so to be taken and counted but because it is vsed at certaine prayers which in your conceit are euill at least not iustifiable Therefore indifferent Lastly remember you not how you said of Kneeling that it is the most solemne signe of reuerence and a signe of the greatest submission Therefore not simply euill and to be condemned Nay when you say this of Kneeling why may not the King appoint the most solemne signe of reuerence the signe of the greatest submission or as you now say whether in earnest or sport I waigh not the most reuerend gesture for so is it and best beseeming so holy an action for the Lords Supper Schis For answere whereunto howsoeuer that which is alreadie said may suffice yet it may be further considered that though it be admitted that it is indifferent to Sitte or to Stand yet doth it not follow that Kneeling is indifferent Pro. Doe you but admitte Sitting and Standing to bee indifferent are they so but by way of Concession And though you grant Standing and Sitting to bee so yet doeth it not follow that Kneeling is of the same nature indifferent what reason haue you that it is not Schis For Sitting is the example and Standing is a gesture sometimes vsed in extraordinary eating and in the obiection it is said to be prescribed at a Sacramentall Feast Pro. Leaning and lying may shew vs how Christ ministred his Supper Sitting is none example For hee sat not if Beza if Vilerius if the vulgar Geneua annotation afore cited say true And if because standing in some Churches is prescribed at the sacramentall feast it is to be esteemed indifferent then is kneeling so to be deemed because the most and best reformed Churches appoint kneeling to be the seemliest gesture to be vsed at the sacrament What haue you more to say Schis Againe it doth not follow that because Christ vsed a gesture fitter for eating in his time in stead of a gesture prescribed vpon occasion it is therefore lawfull to vse a gesture nothing answerable to eating and that taken out of the synagogue of Antichrist as though the word of God came out of it or to it onely instead of a gesture most answerable to eating and purposely vsed by Christ at the institution of the Sacrament Pro. Will you not leaue charging of Christ with violating and breaking of Gods ordinance by vsing a gesture not fitter for eating in his time refusing a gesture prescribed vpon occasion in Gods eyes fittest for the Iewish Church Which thing though our Sauiour neither might nor would doe yet is it free for vs Christians and all Churches to vse such gestures at the Communion as are fittest for the daies and countries wherein and where wee liue England and many other Churches purged from the superstition of Poperie haue made choice of Kneeling a site though not answerable to our common eating neither is it necessarie it should be yet seemliest in our eies for our Eucharisticall Ecclesiasticall heauenlie and spirituall repast with Christ and his members Which Site or gesture though Antichrist abuse and Christ that wee read vsed not yet is it not therefore vnlawfull except it can bee shewne that either Christ did forbed it or commaund another or that Christians eithermay not at all or cannot vse that well which in the synagogue of Antichrist hath beene abused Schism So that notwithstanding all that is said for Kneeling his Maiestie vpon whom the burthen as of this gesture so of other ceremonies is laide may remember that Hezekiah appointed Leuites in the house of the Lord with Cymbals c. according to the commaundement of Dauid and Gad the Kinges Seer and Nathan the Prophet for the commandement was by the hand of the Lord and by the hand of his Prophets Pro. Whatsoeuer you haue said yet haue you not hitherto prooued the Kneeling in question to be vnlawfull and therefore cannot conclude the same to bee not indifferent nor to bee enioyned by our King As for his Maiestie like a worthie Hezekiah hee hath appointed Leuites in the houses of the Lord who doe performe their dueties together both at publique prayer hearing of Gods word ministring and communicating in the Sacraments according to the commaundement of blessed Elizabeth and the aduice of her Seers the Prelates and Clergie of the Realme and all correspondent vnto the reuealed will and Counsell of God Sch. Withal his highnes is to consider if kneeling were the most conuenient gesture best beseeming the holy comunion our Lord and Master would not haue Sitten downe of purpose at his last supper Pro. Your selfe haue acknowledged this Kneeling to be the most solemne signe of reuerence which what it doeth differ from the most reuerend gesture hee is sharpe sighted that can discerne and so best beseeming the holy Communion in our iudgement and country Howsoeuer our Lord and Master ministred this his Supper he ministred the same in most decent orderly and reuerend manner yet not binding vs to his example as knowing that is comely in one Country which is not so in another and meete for the time wherein hee liued and instituted the Sacrament which though lawfull is not so conuenient for after times and all places where his Church or part thereof should reside When Christ therefore in these things hath left vs free let no man bring vs into a new bondage Schis And let his Maiesty remember and consider that Ahaz was deceiued in deeming the Altar at Damascus more honourable for Gods seruice then the Altar of Lord. Pro. When you prooue that God hath appointed the site of Sitting to bee the onely gesture for the receiuing of the Communion in his Church as Altars were prescribed by God for his worshippe at Ierusalem and that the site of Kneeling at the said Communion is as vnlawfull as were the Altars at Ierusalem made after the fashion of the Altar at Damascus and lastly that wee in the Church of England commit Idolatrie by our Kneeling as did the Iewes vpon their new made Altars then let both King Iames bee taken for an Ahaz and his loyall and obedient Subiects for Idolaters in the space you are to bee taken for an egregious deprauer both of his sacred Maiestie and of the Church of God vnder his Empire and Gouernement SECT 11. Whether Kneeling at the Communion as much is to be abhorred as the worshipping of Images Schis I Haue said that which may be sufficient to a man reasonable and not contentious against the institution of Kneeling for supposed reuerence in regard of God Pro. You haue said a great deale more then enough to the same purpose but no whit for the satisfaction of any indifferent and reasonable man studious of the Churches quiet and desirous of the truth Schis It remaineth that somewhat be said against the institution of kneeling for reuerence in regard
holy vnto the Lord without which or the like they differ not from things common and prophane tables Your words be reproachfull both to the holy and to the Church of England S. May not this promise seeme at least to the simple to make way at least to the Popish consecration P. You would belike haue vs blindely to come and take the Sacrament as we do our ordinary food or if we vse any words though neuer so heauenly we do Popishly consecrate in your opinion The words and prayers vttered do make the bread wine holy which before were common This is consecration we acknowledge yet not Popish but Christian S. How grieuous a sin it is to scandalize the weak may appeare by the words of Christ Viz who-soeuer shall offend one of these little ones it were better for him that a mill-stone were hanged about his necke and that hee were drowned in the depth of the Sea P. Our sauiour speaketh against giuing offence by open breach of Gods holy commandements or any of them If you can shew any precept of God either by the Churches enioyning vs to kneele or by our kneeling violated then you may iustly conclude vs to be subiect to the mentioned cursse If you cannot whosoeuer is or be offended weake or strong their offence rashly is assumed not giuen and they be more to feare the wrath of God for being offended without cause then wee for kneeling hauing no word of God to the contrary S. Saint Paule likewise doth say if meat offend my brother I will eate no flesh while the world standeth that I may not offend my brother P. The like are you and I and all true Christians to say touching all things in our power to do or leaue vndone but when by authority we are directed as at the receiuing of the Sacramaent we are then are we not for offending of others pretending them-selues to be weake to leaue that vndone which wee are inioyned to performe Disobedience is as the sin of witch-craft offensiue to all good mindes obedience vnto lawfull Iniunctions may be offensiue either to some weake or wicked persons but neuer-the-lesse to be yeelded except God say to the contrary without scruple of conscience S. What an offence or scandall is the Apostle sheweth in the same chap. viz. The occasiō of falling to the weake P. As how S. The particular offence he speaketh of is this Notwithstanding the Ghospell was preached at conuenient time and that by the Apostles yet many wanted knowledge euen vnto that time did eate as a thing sacrifised vnto an Idol of whome if any should see a man indued with knowledge sit at table in the Idolls Temple his weake consciences might occasinatly be emboldened to eate those things which are sacrificed to Idols P. This instance of yours is to be regarded The Apostle speaketh of Idolatries or meates not consecrated but euen sacrificed vnto Idols This meate so abused the Apostle condemneth not as vnlawfull to bee eaten of Christians But hee blameth those Christians who in the Idols temple among Idolaters did eate the same meate to the offence of all Christians especially of the weake Now be it that Kneeling as the meate sacrificed vnto Idols hath beene abused of Papists yet as meate so sacrificed might bee both sold in the market and bought and eaten of Christians priuately or without offence so the gesture of Kneeling abused by Idolaters may be well vsed of Christians Which may show how farre you Schismatickes are out of the way of truth and from the minde of the first and primitiue Christians who thinke that nothing eyther deuised or abused by Papists may or can bee well vsed in reformed Churches and therefore doe vtterly condemne among other things this our Kneeling But if you finde vs to kneele in the idols temple offending thereby the weake and making them to fall and confirming of Idolaters then deserue wee the blame which those temporizers at Corinth deseruedly did incurre But this you charge vs not withall vnlesse you thinke our Temples to bee Idols houses and all communicants to be idolaters Besides it was free for Christians to eate or not to eate those meates so it were not with offence to the weake but it is not free for vs of the Church of England to Kneele or not to Kneele at the holy Communion For whether we please the weake or offend them we are necessarily to kneele otherwise if we kneele not wee may please the weake you speake of but shall offend our gouernors and peaceable men whom we ought to please and if we Kneele wee shall offend the weake but please others whome we are more to regarde In this case therefore wherein wee cannot choose but offend some or other wee choose rather to offend the weake then the strong priuate then publick persons a few than an whole state yea wee choose rather to doe our duties conscionably then to offend for we offend not in obeying lawfull directions but they offend whosoeuer they be which take offence afore it is giuen S. If Saul would neuer eate flesh rather then he would offend in this case because in so doing hee should sinne against Christ how dare a Christian hauing knowledge Kneele in the presence of any who for want of knowledge receiues superstitiouslie P. In his case not in this case about Kneeling Paul would not offend This case of ours is not Pauls case For touching meates Paul was at liberty to eate or not to eate neither God nor by his authority man hauing forbidden meate or any kinde of meate but lawfull power hath imposed this order of Kneeling vpon our shoulders whereas he therefore was free we are not Where orders well were established who euer was more pliant to obserue them who a greater aduersarie to those which would not obey and fulfill them then this Apostle Paul without respect of any seeming to bee weake In this case where orders bee set downe for the well ordering of Christians said he euer he would neuer keep them then thereby offend the weake Nay he both prescribed orders to be kept not to bee contemned and reproued them which would not keepe them but were contentious Therefore not after the example onely of the Apostle but according to the commandemēt also of God we may yeeld obedience to the higher powers and their lawfull Impositions about matters in their owne nature till they bee either prescribed or prohibited indifferent such is our Kneeling at the holy Table where in charitie we are to thinke none superstitiously doe receiue and if some do it is their priuate offence no publike fault of the whole Church Furthermore when you grant that some persons very religiously receiue when others superstitiously doe so see you not how with one and the same breath you graunt the said Kneeling to bee a gesture indifferent which before you denied abused by some well vsed and without sinne by others Which ouer-throweth vtterly your