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A64359 A friendly debate between a Roman Catholick and a Protestant concerning the doctrine of transubstantiation wherein the said doctrine is utterly confuted, and Antichrist is clearly and fully described, and his inevitable destruction predicted : with a challenge to all the Romish doctors that preach and teach the said doctrine, to answer it. Tenison, Thomas, 1636-1715. 1688 (1688) Wing T698; ESTC R38802 90,615 48

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be a Whoremonger nor an Adulterer for the Scripture saith That Whoremongers and Adulterers God will judg 6. Sixthly It could not be a Thief or a Murderer nor an Unrighteous Person nor a Lier nor a Fornicator nor an Extortioner nor a Reviler nor a Conjuring Sorcerer nor an Effeminate Person nor an Abuser of himself with Mankind neither could it be a Drunkard or a Glutton It could not possibly be any of all these sorts of bad Men that made or invented the Scriptures because they would never have denounced such heavy Judgments against themselves for all these Sins which are against the very Light of Nature 1 Cor. 6.9 10. 7. Seventhly It could not be any of these two Bed-Rolls of Sinners that made or invented the Holy Scriptures which you have discovered by the Apostle Paul in Rom. 1.26 27 28 29 30 31 32. and in 2 Tim. 3.1 2 3 4 5. Surely these Sinners would never have pronounced such a dreadful Sentence against themselves 8. Eighthly It could not be a Persecutor that made or invented the Scripture for it hath set a Cain-like mark upon him viz. the vilest and basest of Men Acts 17.5 But the Jews who believed not moved with envy took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort and gathered a company and set all the city in an uproar and assaulted the house of Jason and sought to bring them out to the people And our Saviour Christ calls them A generation of vipers and scrpents Matth. 23.31 32 34 35. Surely then if Persecutors had made or invented the Scriptures they would never have written thus against themselves 9. Ninthly It could not be a Sabbath-breaker or one that profaneth the Lords Day that made or invented the Scriptures because the Scriptures are very strict for the due observing the Sabbath or for keeping a Day unto the Lord and there is severe Penalties prescribed and made to be inflicted upon the Tranfgressors of that Holy Law of God. 10. Tenthly It could not be an Atheist that made and invented the Scriptures because it discovers the glorious Attributes of the Divine Being and his Works of Creation and Providence and denounceth Hell and Damnation against all Atheists therefore it could not possibly be an Atheist that made and invented the Holy Scriptures 11. Eleventhly and Lastly to name no more bad Men It could not be any Person made and invented the Scriptures that was an Idolater that invents and makes to himself any graven images or the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above or in the earth beneath or in the sea or in the waters under the earth Exod. 20.4 5. That bow down to them and say their Prayers before them and perhaps pay Divine Adoration unto them Read what the Scripture saith of these Psal 115.4 5 6 7 8. Psal 97.7 Isa 40.18 19 20. To whom will ye liken God or what likeness will ye compare unto him The workman melteth a graven image and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold and casteth silver chains He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image that shall not be moved Isa 44.16 17. He burneth part thereof in the fire with part thereof he eateth flesh he rosteth rost and is satisfied yea he warmeth himself and saith Aha I am warm I have seen the fire And the residue thereof he maketh a god even his graven image he falleth dewn unto 〈◊〉 and worshippeth it and prayeth unto it and saith Deliver me for thou art my god Now certainly it could be none of these sorts of Persons that made or invented the Holy Scriptures which we Protestants do own and believe to be the eternal unalterable Word and Law of God. Object But it may be some may say Yes it might be such a Person that made the Scriptures for we do not make these Images for any other end or design than to put us in mind of God and our Duty towards him and that they are the Lay-mens Books to teach and instruct them Pray give me leave to put a Case unto you Now suppose for Argument sake to illustrate the matter that the King's Majesty in Concurrence with his two Houses of Parliament the Great Council of the Land should make a Law for some Reason of State that it should be no less than High Treason for any of his Subjects to make his Image or to have his Picture or the Likeness of any thing that doth belong to him in Imitation of it and Issue out his Proclamation straightly and strictly forbidding all his Subjects attempting the doing it upon Pain of the inevitable escaping the severest Punishment which properly belongeth unto those that are Guilty of High Treason But yet notwithstanding this severe Prohibition of the King there should be some Persons would be so daring and bold as to presume to do it out of a pretended but blind Zeal of Loyalty and not rest satisfied in nor with their own Treason and Rebellion but they would force others of his Subjects to do so likewise or else they would knock them in the head or burn them because they were truly Loyal and kept to the Kings Laws in this Case made and provided Pray which of these two forts of Persons are the best and the most Loyallest Subjects think you I know you will say those that obeyed the Kings Laws for as it is in Spiritual things so in this Obedience 〈◊〉 better than Sacrifice Why the Law of the King of Heaven who is King of Kings and Law-giver to all his Creatures viz. the Great Charter of Heaven is that we shall not make nor have nor bow down to nor worship any sort of Images ●or the likeness of any of the things in Heaven or ●n Earth or in the Sea or in the Waters under the Earth Whatever some People think of it I will ●ssure them from the Word of a Jealous God it is ●●o less than Spiritual High Treason and punishable by the Great Charter of Heaven with no less ●han Hell and Damnation without unfeigned Re●entance and a thorough Reformation Deut. 5. ● 9. Thou shalt not make thee any graven image or any ●●keness of any thing that is in heaven above or that is 〈◊〉 the earth beneath or that is in the waters beneath 〈◊〉 earth Thou shalt not bow down thy self unto them 〈◊〉 serve them for I the Lord thy God am a jealous 〈…〉 God. Therefore it could be none of these sort of bad Men nor no other bad Men whatsoever that had any hand in the least in making or inventing the Scriptures which we that are Protestants of all sorts do own and believe to be the Word of God. 2. Secondly In the second place neither could it be good Men that made and invented the Scriptures of their own Brain First It could not be them which count themselves Good Nor Secondly Could it be them whom
promised that he should so come Gen. 3.15 But after our Saviour Christ did come in the flesh why then that part of Faith was at an end for after that whoever looked for his coming in that nature did not exercise Faith but it was a great sin for it was the product of unbelief which was a very great Judgment and it is the very Grave wherein the poor scattered Jews have lain dead and buried ever since and unbelief and prejudice against Christ is the Grave-stone also that lyeth upon them and keeps them down Our Saviour told them If ye believe not that I am he ye shall die in your sins But now the proper work and office of Faith is to see him that is invisible Heb. 11.27 By faith he forsook Egypt not fearing the wrath of the King for he endured as seeing him who is invisible that was Christ But how can that be it seems to be a contradiction in it self what to see him which cannot be seen why it must be understood thus that Moses did see Christ by an eye of Faith who could not be seen by an eye of sence a bodily eye And thus Abraham the Father of the Faithful did see Christ before ever he came in the flesh Your Father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it and was glad And thus all true Believers do see and discern the Lord's Body at the Sacrament of the Lords-Supper and he is to be discerned no otherwise there And Stephen the Martyr he saw Christ in Heaven after he was ascended Act. 7.55 But he being full of the Holy Ghost looked up stedfastly into Heaven and saw the Glory of God and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. But how did Stephen see him why it was by an eye of faith he being full of the Holy Ghost Ay that soul can never miss of seeing Christ at any time or in any place that is full of the Holy Ghost and Stephen's confessing this made his Enemies mad insomuch that they run upon him and murdered him for they perhaps thought that they could see as far as he could and yet they could see no such sight But the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned 1 Cor. 2.14 Our Saviour Christ can no more be seen now personally and substantially by a bodily eye of sence while he is at the right hand of God than he could be seen in Moses's or Abraham's days which was before ever he had a substantial Body to be seen neither ever shall he be so seen until he cometh down from Heaven in that manner as he was seen to go up into Heaven Act. 1.10 11. Nor until he appeareth the second time without sin unto Salvation Without sin why doth not the Scripture ●ell us that he was without sin before namely at his ●●rst coming why yes it does so and it is very true ●●at is thus he was without sin with a respect to 〈…〉 ●uilt or pollution or any inclination to 〈…〉 sin in himself for he was a Lamb without spot or blemish the Lamb for Sacrifice did Type out unto us the sinless spotless nature of Christ But when Christ came first in the flesh he appeared then in his state of Humiliation in the form of a servant with all the sins of all the people of God upon him of all that ever were saved and gotten safe into Glory and of all that ever should be saved from Adam to the end of the world all the sins of his people past present and to come viz. of them that were dead and gone and of them that were then living and of them that were then unborn all concentred upon Christ but not in him they all met upon Christ's shoulders Isa 53.5 6. But he was wounded for our transgressions he was bruised for our iniquity the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed All we like sheep have gone astray we have turned every one to his own way and the Lord hath laid upon him the iniquity of us all Therefore it is said God was manifested in the flesh Then indeed Christ was seen with bodily eyes for he was manifested in the flesh justified in the spirit after Christ had suffered and died and rose again from the dead when he had paid the debt to God which he stood engaged unto him for as a surety for sinners when the Law was fulfilled and the Justice of God fully satisfied and the wrath of God wholly appeased then Christ must needs be justified and by his being justified all his people for whom he died were all justified It was just as if a rich man were surety for a poor indigent man that was deeply in debt and was not able to pay one farthing why the Creditors take no notice of the poor Debtor but fall upon the rich man that is his surety and arrest him and cast him into prison upon which the rich man payeth all the poor mans debts and then he comes forth having fully discharged the debt he and the poor Debtor are both fully discharged the Prison could hold him no longer so that both the Surety and the Debtor are justified and acquitted the Law cannot take hold neither of the Surety nor the Debtor again for that is fulfilled why even so comparatively it was with a respect to Christ and poor sinners he was bound for poor sinners and the Justice of God past by them and seised upon Christ and arrested him and cast him into prison Isa 53.8 9. He was taken from prison and from judgment c. Which I take to be the prison of the Grave for death could not hold him but he paid every farthing of all the debt for all them for whom he died and when he had discharged the debt for poor sinners then he himself was fully discharged and justified and all his people in him and in this sense every believer is without sin that is they are free from the reigning condemning power of sin tho not from the in-being of sin Rom. 8.1 And so is to be understood that 1. Joh. 2.9 Whosoever is born of God 〈…〉 sin for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God. But to return to the case in hand c. But Christ has never been seen by any mortal eye in this world since he Ascended up into Glory by which you may see that this Doctrine of Christ's being Corporeally present in the Sacrament destroys the use and exercise of Faith in that Ordinance which is to see him by the eye of Faith who is at the right hand of God and is invisible which is to discern the Lords Body which cannot be seen by a carnal bodily eye of sence as you pretend to see him in your Sacrament Secondly If this Doctrine of Transubstantiation in your Churches