are not guilty of schisme and demolishing the Church by division and contempt and reproach of the godly Ministery and disobedience to those in government further then they please them and covenant-breaking and neglect of the Lords day c. you would credit the particular society if you make it good In the meane time I see them rolling down the hill so fast that I think many have but one step lower to go Answ. Schisme was imputed to Protestants by Papists for their not joining in their corruptions with them by Prelatists to non-conformists for not yielding to ceremonies of Bishops Covel in his preface to his answer to Burges accused the most moderate of them as making a rent in the Church and breaking from the Bishops even in that where in they were very passive choosing rather to for sake their function and calling then to yield conformity to the ceremonies of the Church Allen and Shepherd answer to Mr. Ball page 27. Advert to the Read say truly Scarce truth or error can now adaies be received but it is maintained in a way of schism I confesse it is too true that it is hard to name any society of Anabaptists or Infant-baptists that are not in a schisme and commonly both parties guilty of making the breach I am conscious to my selfe of using what meanes I could for reformation without schisme if possible but I find it as mens spirits are impossible yet Mr. B. is not ashamed to tell the world in print that he hath as good evidence that I am a Sect-Master as that I am a Christian. I made to Mr. M. in the Epilogue of my Examen as faire notions as I could devise yea such as a holy sweet-spirited man and understanding did much rejoice to reade and blessed God for it afore I sent it to Mr. M. Yet Mr. M. and Mr. Ley interpreted them as the challenge of a braving Goliath I was desirous to see Mr. Bs. arguments in writing He would not but prints in a way that proclaimes to the world that he loo es on me and all the societies of Antipaedobaptists as persons intolerable Infant-baptisme we see to be a manifest corruption we know it hath no precept or example expresse or virtual in Scripture that it with infant-communion began some ages from Christs birth upon the conceit of necessity to save an infant from perishing we know it is a duty to be baptized yea by Christ made a concurring requisite to salvation with believing Marke 16. 16. and so a fundamental by Mr. Bs. rule in his addition to the preface of the second part of his Saints everlasting rest where he defines Fundamentals Those things which God hath made the conditions of salvation Infant-baptizers will not baptize believers yea they inveigh abhorre both the opinion and practise we conceive a necessary important duty We can scarce come to their meetings but we must heare the truth bitterly declaimed against persons that hold it reviled error published infant-baptisme practised if we be silent we are judged to consent if we speake it makes an uproare we are painted out so deformed as that men are almost afraid to have speech with us or to hear us or to joine in communion with us Magistrates are by writings and Sermons incited against us I know not what we can do lesse then be baptized as Christ appoints and receive the Lords Supper Mr. B. page 341. counts the error of the old and new Socinians denying the continuance of baptisme as a standing ordinance in the Church nothing so bad as my opinion upon a frivolous pretence as if I made void the end of baptisme in that where in the true end of baptisme is preserved which is that the baptized engageth himself to be Christs disciple So that even as the rigid Lutherans for their Consubstantiation had rather joine with Papists then Calvinists Mr. B. is more willing to comply with that Antichristian and I had almost said Atheistical way of living above ordinances then favour Anabaptists In this case if there be schisme in our practise let all the world judge whether we be not passive rather then active and whether the true cause of it be in us or Mr. Bs. and others invectives and actings against us We make not schisme but suffer it Mr. B. by this last book hath done more to promote it then any Anabaptist I know and how farre the wayes of other Antagonists have been from peace the intelligent will perceive though I be silent Contempt and reproach of Godly Ministers by men of opposite parties is very frequent and mutual I have often endeavoured but cannot expresse it yet that societies of Anabaptists as they are a body do so I do not find As for obedience to Governours further then they please them the moderne so called Anabaptists in England and Holland may vye with their adversaries The accidents of this year in England which I am unwilling to mention may serve to wipe away the reproach of Anabaptists in this respect Covenant-breaking till instance be given wherein is so general a charge that an answer cannot be given I know men are taken to break Covenant who conceive they keep it Neglect of the Lords day I think cannot be charged on the societies of Anabaptists however it may be on some members Some of the leaders of them appear sound in this point Mr. Blackwood Apostol bapt The Jewish Sabbath being put to an end Col. 2. 16. we observe the Lords day from the Apostles example and the morality of the fourth Com. which requires one day in seven Mr. Edward Harrison Paedobapt oppugned page 4. makes the rule for one day in seven moral and natural and the altering the day simply Evangelical from Apostolical example which having not meerly temporary reason is enough to prove an institution from Christ which sort of proof we have Acts 20. 7. 1 Cor. 16. 1 2. Mr. B. knowes the Protestant Churches beyond-sea more guilty of loosenesse in opinion and practise about the Lords day then English Anabaptists When Mr. B. speaks of their rolling down the hill so fast in placing their religion in full mouth'd oathes and blasphemies c. it is very hard for Mr. B. to charge that upon them which is the act of some particular persons whom they condemne and warne others of and whereof not a few have been of other societies then theirs My second instance 500. years ago I have vindicated before My third instance is of societies at this day in the Low Countreys and Mr. B. answers about them of whom Bullinger and others wrote who were dead afore they were borne which is not to the businesse Yet Mr. B. might consider that it is confessed that even then Menno Simonis detested Muncer Becold as Becman Exercit. Theol. 21. page 359 362. acknowledgeth that even then there were aliqui innocentiâ vitae commendabiles commendable for their innocency of life as Heresbachius relates Histor. Anabapt monast c. 8. and
those at this day it 's likely are not guilty of much scandal in practise when Cloppenburg Gangr Anabapt disput 148. Ampliug dial thesi 2. Mr. Paget defence of Church-govern part 1. ch 4. who lived neare them make it their fault that they are strict in excommunicating for small matters and Cloppenburg in the Epistle Dedicatory to his Gangrene saith The troopes of Anabaptists that dwelt in Friesland after the commotions at Munster although they trouble not the Common-wealth having cast off corporal weapons yet they suffer not the more pure reformed Churches to be edified without daily conflicts From whence I gather that their conversation there is as other mens saving for their rigid discipline and different opinions in the most whereof whether truly or falsly charged on them by Cloppenburgius they are not owned by those in England whose Confession is extant To Mr. Bs. charging of me of untruths and covetousnesse and malice and contempt of my brethren page 202 203. there is an answer made before and after where speeches and practises to prove these are objected He chargeth me with pride in my usual way of putting off the authority of their arguments and judgements with a contemptuous smile or wonder at the sillinesse of them But therein there is no despising of their persons but onely of their arguments which if I know to be weak I dare not make shew as if I counted them strong that were to put darknesse for light and if I do shew dislike with a smile or wonder though others rather say I do reject them with anger mistaking my earnestnesse in speaking for that passion this is usually lesse offensive then alteration of wordes And if I use wondering at their sillinesse I am sure Mr. B. is not behind me in this book whose frequent exclamations of sillinesse c. are to be seene where he had little or no cause but the defect of his own apprehension as shall appear in the examining his book and therefore if for this I be judged proud Mr. B. should do well to search himself who differs from the most learned and godly in the world in more things then I do and I imagine with more peremptorinesse and lesse evidence then I bring from my adversaries own confessions Perfidiousnesse he chargeth me not with it is a great question in this age whether it be a sin Answ. I think it is no question whether breaking of Covenants and oathes be a sin but whether the not setling uniformity according to the advice of the Assembly at Westminster the not conjoining with the Scots the engagement to the present government c. be perfidiousnesse or no Wherein if Mr. B. hold the affirmative it 's very probable there will be found some to encounter with him when his arguments are seen in writing What he tells me that my not reproving the prophaning the Lords day and excusing my self from resolving the question concerning its morality hath no good savour is a charge which I imagine comes from some tale brought Mr. B. whereby he is abused I have spoken against prophaning the Lords day as I have judged meet in the places I have preached my judgement about its morality is succinctly set down Examen part 2. sect 8. At Bewdley I did often in my prefaces before I began morning-exercises at the chappel on the Lords day presse them to the observation of it and in my Cursory Exposition of the three first chapters of the Revelation on publique fast-dayes and of Genesis on the Lords day delivered my self more fully in opening Gen. 2. 3. Revel 1. 10. And when the question was propounded in the weekly meeting we had to edifie one another Whether the observation of every first day of the week as a Sabbath be of Divine institution I resolved it at the next meeting affirmatively And after I had in one or two Lectures for so I may call my dictates at Bewdley in resolving their hard questions cleared the termes 1. Concerning the measure of the first day of the week examining whether precisely 24. houres and when to begin and when to end are necessary for the account of the time resolving it to be measured for observation as we do other dayes for working allowing time for necessities 2. Concerning the observation of a Sabbath what is requisite thereto wherein I resolved that it is to be observed by rest and holinesse about both which I resolved many cases At the next time I drew the substance of my proof into this one syllogisme If solemne worship of God in full congregations be required of God and fixed dayes be necessary thereto and observed by all or most Nations even Heathens nor belongs it to any but God to appoint it to his service and God appointed a seventh day Sabbath from the beginning and commanded it in the fourth Commandement a mong the morals and the Apostles distinguished from other dayes the Lords day by title precept and example as appropriate to God and Christians with common consent so took it and used it after their dayes the Jewish Sabbaths being abrogated then the observation of every first day of the week as a Sabbath is of Divine institution But solemn worship of God c. Ergo. The sequel of the Major I stood not long in proving supposing some morality of a Sabbath being infolded in the first institution and the fourth Commandement and the Apostles fixing that on the Lords day is a sufficient declaration of Gods mind to have it observed But the Minor I proved by parts And after I had proved the two first Propositions by reason first of the failing of the meeting through some sad accidents and then the removing of my dwelling books and my seldome being with them I did not prosecute it till one moved that I would resolve them about that question whether it were to tempt me or otherwise they know who had a hand in it I told them what I had done already and that of what I had begun I had not any breviate about me but I conceived that in my study I had and therefore I desired their respite till my next comming to them that I might by reviewing what I had done and adding some further reading fit my self to resolve them in which they seemed to rest but it 's likely some or othertold Mr. B. of this who I perceive wanted not tale-bearers and he in imagine sticks not to interpret this my respite which he calls an excuse from resolving the question concerning the morality of the Lords day though I had long before resolved it but had not fully confirmed my argument as having some ill savour of licentiousnesse though about a moneth after I repaired to them and so fully confirmed the other seven Propositions that the company who were as many of the best-affected and intelligent there as the roome could hold declared themselves satisfied thereabout Mr. B. also page 258. saies of my exceptions against one story in
the faith of Divine Scripture declares to us that there is one evenness of the Divine gift to all whether Infanrs or elder in age When Helisaeus upon the Infant son of the Shunamite widow which lay dead so laid himself when he prayed to God that head was applied to head face to face the members of Helisaeus spread over were joyned to each of the members of the little one and the feet to its feet Which thing if it be thought on according to the quality of our birth and body an Infant cannot be equalled to a person grown and come to full stature neither could he close and fit little members to greater But their Divine and Spiritual evenness is expressed that all men are even and equal when they are made By God and our age may have difference in increase of bodies according to the world not according to God unless if the grace also which is given to the baptized be given lesse or more according to the age of receivers where as the holy Spirit is equally given to all not by measure but out of tendernesse and fatherly indulgence For God as he accepts not a person so neither doth he accept of age sith he affordes himself alike to all with a ballanced equality for the obtaining of heavenly Grace And for what thou hast said the footstep of an Infant made in the first dayes of his birth is not clean because every one of us as yet is afraid to kiss him neither do we think this to be a hindrance to the giving of heavenly Grace for it is written all things are clean to the clean neither ought any one to be afraid to do that which God hath vouchsafed For although the Infant is yet new from the birth yet it is not so that one in giving grace and granting peace ought to be afraid to kiss him sith in the kiss of an Infant every one of us according to his religion ought to think of the very hands of God as yet fresh which we in some sort kiss in man now formed and newly born when we embrance that which God hath made For as for what was observed in Jewish carnal Circumcision the 8. day is a Sacrament foregoing in a shadow and in an image but is now compleat in the truth Christ being come For because the day in which the Lord should rise and quicken and give us Spiritual Circumcision was the 8. day that is the first after the Sabbath this 8. day that is the first after the Sabbath and the Lords day went before in an image which image ceased the truth after â—â—â—ing upon it and the Spiritual Circumcision being given us For which reason we think none ought to be hindred from obtaining the grace of Christ nor that the Spiritual Circumcision ought to be hindred by the carnal but that every man altogether is to be admitted to the grace of Christ sith Peter also speaks and sayes in the Acts of the Apostles The Lord hath said to me none is to be said to be common and unclean But if any thing might hinder men from the obtaining grace more grievous sins might hinder grown men and commen to full stature elder in birth But moreover if to most grievous offenders and those that sin much before God when after they believe remission of sins is given and no man is withheld from Baptism and from grace how much more ought not an Infant to be withheld who being new born hath sins no whit but that being born according to Adam carnally he drew on him in his first nativity the contagion of death of old who in this respect doth more easily come to receive remission of sins because not his own sias but anothers are forgiven him And therefore most dear brother this was our sentence in the Council that none by us ought to be prohibited from Baptism and the grace of God who is mercifult and kind and tender to all Which as it is to be observed and held concerning Infants themselves and newly born who in this respect do deserve more of our help and ' Divine mercy because in the first beginning their birth presently crying and weeping they do nothing else but pra We wish to thee most dear brother alwayes health For Mr. Richard Baxter at Kederminster Sir some of my neighbours conceived it would be their best way to resolve their doubts about Baptism to know what arguments you could bring for Infant-baptism and against their being baptized notwithstanding the pretended Baptism they had in Infancy Whereupon with my privity one came to you upon whose relating to me your answer I wrote to you and upon receipt of your letter to me think good to let you understand that I said not I utterly refused open dispute but that I affected it not it being fit for Schools and not common auditors entered into usually with animosities and eagernesse to obtain a supposed victory mannaged with heat and multitude of words with answers and replies not so delibrate as were requisite to settle any ones judgement they being misapprehended by Auditors who commonly take him to have the better who speaks the most ending usually in wrangling or something like it followed with misreports accompanied wâ—â—â— disorders and inconveniencies insomuch that except in case of betraying truth by declining a dispute I can hardly bring my self to yield to it And howsoever you conceive of my advantages you may if you will and perhaps do know that you have such advantages in your ready wit and speech and the favour and general acclamation to any thing that is said for the superstition of Infant-baptism as to bring things so to passe that the event shall be crying down truth and disgrace of my person Nor have your disparaging speeches of my writings without animadversions on them communicated to me or your carriage at or not long after the receipt of my letter encouraged me to hope for all candour from you in this matter For preaching sith it belongs to you to maintain the Divine institution of Infant-baptism I shall be willing to examine what you say when you have said what you think good for it if I may obtain a copy of your Sermon which you will own and if it satisfie me I shall confesse it if not in a Sermon in the same place or elsewhere I shall give a distinct and plain answer to it Foâ— writing which I like best I desire not to put you to any tedious or voluâ—â—nous way but in the most compendious way of syllogisms yea if it may â—â— that you put in one medium the strength of all you can Of the shoâ—â—â—ispatch you desire you may assure your self who are to be the opponent in â—â—â—oint my answer will be as short as your argument will permit and â—â—â—â—â—e you conttact it keeping to the point the more satisfactory it wil 〈◊〉 I am Yours in our Lord JOHN TOMBES Bewdley Sept. 10. 16 Tertullian l. de baptismo Laicis jus est baptizandi
favour to be visible Churchmembers should by sweet experience be convinced of their errour and be taught better how to understand that all our children are holy Page 518. He calls the disputes about baptism perverse and fierce which did so directly touch the controversy as might irritate me to fall on it at Bewdley and make those that told me think he did gird at me which he denies pag. 166. He mentions a speech of mine to Mr. D. whom he terms a godly man that truth is not to be suspended for peace and saith When the times changed which his words page 220. interpret to be meant When the ordinance against heresies and errors ceased to be in force I spake against Infant-sprinkling prest them to be baptized again mentioned in Sermons Mr. M. Mr. Blake and himself when my doctrine prevailed not though since I have gotten above 20. rebaptized disciples whom I often visit and confirm that I charged them with hypocrisy with their blood on their heads that M. Ms. plea from circumcision for infant-baptism is heresie that by my definition of heresy Independants must be judged Hereticks that I sought his arguments in writing to put them in my Review of the dispute with Mr. M. and to ing age him in the Controversy whence he gathered I was unpeaceable set to carry on my opinion and to make my self a party To all this I reply 'T is true some conceiving Mr. B. in his speeches had a fling at me and it seeming likely to me I did speak to the purpose Mr. B. saies I did not imagining that a speech upon a conference in a shop without its limitations and cautions should have been as it is by Mr. B. published and refuted as my error but indeed willing only that Mr. B. should know that in my case I was not to suspend my asserting of truth for fear of losing of peace as I alleadge in my Apology sect 3. And I professe I wonder that such as Mr. M. Mr. B. and others that were so earnest against Bishops and ceremonies though warres did follow and had a great hand in putting them on should now the warres being so well abated be so impatient that Infant-sprinkling is questioned It is untruely surmifed that the change of times was the cause of my opening my self fully in the congregation at Bewdley My first meddling with it was when Mr. Bayly had so unjustly charged me in his Anabaptisme chap. 4. page 92. with spoiling infants of all interest in the Covenant of grace making circumcision a seale to the Jewes only of earthly priviledges denying to the Jewish infants all right to the Covenant till in their riper years they become actual believers Which with other fals accusations about twenty in that one page I intreated by letter my dear Father-in-Law Mr. Henry Scudder to advertise him of after that I might stand right in the thoughts of that worthy man Mr. William Hopkins of Bewdley now with God I shewed him how he wronged me and then cleared my self in my cursory exposition on Ger. 17. brought his book with me into the pulpit and read a passage of Mr. Ms. Defence part 3. page 98. for my vindication which was presently sent up to London But Mr. Bayly doing nothing to right me I wrote to Mr. Bayly and because Mr. Rutherford had my letter to send to him I wrote since to him to know what became of my letter but have had no answer After this I was moved to preach what I did which was but little till December 1649. when I found my tenet on the day of fast to be humbled for blasphemies and heresies which was as I remember March 10. 1649. reckoned as by others so by Mr. Obadiah Sedgewick in his Sermon before the Lords among heresies with which I found afterwards the censure of 52. Ministers about London to concurre stigmatizing me by name as holding four pernicious errors in my Examen and when the ordinance against blasphemy and heresie was published which Mr. Boraston though not required yet published at Ribsford to which Bewdley Chappel relates that he might proclaime me an Heretick Which necessitated me to speak what I did not the change of times it 's known I spake as much in the hardest times to my opinion as since nor unpeaceablenesse in me as Mr. B. surmised What I preached was in no clamourous manner as Mr. B. would intimate calling it exclaiming but in a way of proof and answer as sober Divines do in the like case My na ming any was when I recited their words for which though I was reviled once in London when refuting Doctor Crisp I named him and Mr. B. in a letter to me and since in print reckons as no small fault yet I ever did and do still think it to be necessary when the books are in mens hands and the Auditors are not likely otherwise to know we recite their opinion truly nor whose error we refute I do not believe I used those words Mr. B. sets down as mine Let them budge at it c. though it 's likely I might say it 's one of the chiefest signes of sincerity to embrace every truth and hypocrisy not to receive it for carnal respects not out of anger that men were not of my mind but to justify my self after I had fully handled the point about baptism which I think was either after or immediately before the dispute I used the Apostles words Act. 20. 26 27. nor do I deny that sith our Lord Christ doth Mark 16. 16. make baptisme some condition of Salvation I think those that are taught that Infant-sprinkling is not the duty Christ requires of being baptized and that water baptisme of men at years upon profession of faith is a necessary duty which I had sufficiently proved at Bewdley and yet neglect it do hazzard their salvation living in disobedience to a manifest duty yea the prime duety whereby they ought solemnly to engage themselves to be Christs Disciples I have gotten no Disciples to me and though more then 20 in Bewdley have bin baptized after profession of faith since my removal from them whom with the whole Town I think my self bound by many ties as often as I may to visit and confirm yet not rebaptized It is true to shew how unreasonable the accusation of my tenet as heresy is I have sundry times said that Mr. Ms. position in his Sermon page 35. That all Gods commands and institutions about the Sacraments of the Jewes bind us as much as they did them in all things which belong to the substance of the Covenant and were not accidentall unto them is one of the most manifest heresies being condemned Acts 15. For it expressely asserts that the Gentile Christians are still bound to some rule of circumcision contrary to the Apostles determination Nor did I frame a definition of heresie to make good what I said of Mr. Ms. tene though I deny not the definition I gave with some
explaining himself and yielding to other things which might sift the truth then I found him 2. It is not true I forced Mr. B. to the dispute The words of my letter dated December 27. 1649. foure dayes before the dispute were these Sir my message was this sith I intend on the next Lords day to prosecute what I have begun in examining the Hypotheses upon which the argument from circumcision for infant-baptisme which is the Paedobaptists Achilles is built I was willing to invite you to be a hearer and if you judged it meet to oppose what you should think good in a Logick way without Rhetorick Yet if you choose to come over either Munday or Tuesday I shall be ready to justifie my doctrine openly or privately by word or writing as it shall be judged convenient Mr. B. choosing Tuesday Jan. 1. a seat was provided for him with some kind of State Ministers and Schollers such as they were sent for over the Countrey placed on each side Mr. B. which with Mr. Bs. carriage in the beginning to propound that question which I had not then meddled with in my Sermons or printed books about the manner of baptizing and in that manner as served for no other purpose but to create prejudice besides his fallacious disputing in the beginning did cause apprehensions in me of the designe of bearing down me and the truth by indirect wayes which before I dreamed not of which if Mr. B. were not privy to yet was he instrumental to promote which I confesse did not a little perplex me and streightned my thoughts and expressions 3. That Mr. B. did conceale his arguments me thinks he should not deny who denies not that he would not give me animadversions on my written notes nor let me have his arguments in writing To the rest of his questions answer enough is already given 4. It is no untruth that I had scarce time afforded me to repeale his arguments yea at first it was expressely denied me till Mr. Good informed Mr. B. that it was the rule of Schools the Respondent should repeat the arguments And it was once confessed ingenuously that Mr. Bs. syllogismes were so long as that they could not be easily repeated which was very true of some of them contrary to the use of Schools being hypothetical syllogismes to prove an hypothetical proposition It is true that Mr. B. would open his termes viz. the chief terme visible Church-member when I asked him by what note he meant Infants were discernable as visible Church-members he did not tell me his note to my best remembrance and when I did distinguish of visible by profession or some other way because I did not express the other member of the distinction though I could not do it till he explained what other way he conceived as being a visible Church-member besides profession he derided me 6. It is true also that he checked me with Satyrical quips as that he could not help my memory when I did not repeate rightly his long syllogisme hat he came not to be catechized when I asked him of his meaning about the terme visible His speech of my defying the armies of Israel and calling give me a man to dispute c. for my uncircumcised opinion is conservant with Mr. M. and Mr. Ley their unjust and false charges of me to which I answered in my Apology sect 7. and Mr. Bs insulting speech thereupon is not without shew of vain glory Page 211. He blames me for desiring his arguments in writing though not denying the validity of any one of his reasons against writing many mens writings being yet unaswered by me my answer to Mr. Ms. Defence being weak that I have done him great injury in forcing him to write Answ. The desire I and others had to see his arguments in writing was because we could not otherwise well judge of them which he might easily have done being those as he saith he preached at Coventrey and had written in his book at the dispute and therefore might have been easily communicated to us His reasons against writing I took to be excuses of his unwillingnesse to gratifie us in our request and that they were meer excuses his printing proveth to which he was never ferced by me as he falsely pretends in his title page and if he be injured it is by himself whose own minde or some others designe using him as their instrument carried him to it and though I am glad to see his arguments in writing yet I take it for the greatest injury that ever I received from man that he hath so unworthily abused me and the truth which I pray God forgive him expecting also if he live both righting me and the truth Of answering Mr. Cobbet I have said enough already Mr. Church and Mr. Rutherfords are in effect the same with Mr. Ms. and others by overthrowing in my Sermons the Hypotheses of the Covenant seal Baptismes succession to Circumcision they were answered Mr. Drew's main argument page 23. though his book by the Author of the lawfulnesse of obeying the present govenrment be judged to be written with sharp reasons and mild language yet either there are foure termes in it or else it concludes we are to circumcise The dispute of Mr. Baily had been shewed to be very fallacious if my letter to the press had found one willing to print it I desired to have Mr. Bs. arguments in writing besides these because he was better known to those of Bewdley I compare not my self with men excellent in writing nor do I think I used the terme silly people though Mr. Bs. notary so wrote it page 212. How unseemly Mr. Bs. language was I have said afore I conceived it necessary Mr. B. should explain his termes to satisfie the people who could not judge of his proof without knowing his meaning which might have been done and yet strict disputing observed which Mr. B. denied though this were or should have been the end of the dispute and the occasion of it led him to it If for peace and for fear of scandal be equipollent as I take them to be in these speeches then Truth must not be lost for fear of scandal and no truth is to be concealed so as to be lost for peace differ not as much as truth from a most destructive falsehood as Mr. B. saith page 215. Austin I think hath the words I cited in that Sermon my book of scandals page 273. and in my Apology page 5. though perhaps I am mistaken and the speech be Gregories whose words in his seventh homily on Ezech. are thus cited by Aqu. 2. 2. q. 43. art 7. Si de veritate scandalum sumitur ut tilius nasci permittur scandalnm quam veritas relinquatur My traducing Mr. B. in my pulpit mentioned page 217. was nothing but citing his words which was not frequent nor is it if rightly done any injury when the book is published What is of me and not of God
Tribe young or old men and women are gathered by the Apostles and other Preachers as Moses did gather together the Jewish Nation Exod. 19. Deut. 29. But saith Mr. B. 1. Hath he noi commanded to Disciple Nations I answer yes to make Disciples of all Nations by Preaching the Gospel to every Creature as it is Marke 16. 15. but no where by civil authority to gather a whole City Countrey or Tribe and to draw them into a National or City Covenant together old and young but to offer Christ and to baptize so many as are willing to embrace him 2. Saith Mr. B. Hath not the Father promised to give the Heathen or Nations for his inheritance and the uttermost parts of the earth for his possession Psal. 2. and that Nations shall serve him Answ. He hath and it is fulfilled but not in Mr. Bs. sense as if one whole Nation City Countrey or Tribe were gathered together in the manner Moses brought into Covenant all the Jewish Nation but as the Apostle speaks by ministring the Gospel Rom. 15. 16. the Gentiles that is believers among them are an offering to God glorifie God ver 9. praise him trust in him ver 11 12. so as it was foretold in Abraham all Nations should be blessed which is expounded Gal. 3. 7 8 9. Rom. 4. 17 18. believers of all other Nations as well as Jews 3. And that the Kingdoms of the world shall become the Kingdomes of the Lord and his Christ Ans. I reade those words Rev. 11. 15. but I find the time of fulfilling to be when the seventh Angel hath founded which some say is not till the world to come So Mr. Seager of the world to come part 1. sect 8. And this is not improbable from ver 18. and Revel 10. 6 7. The New Annot faith thus Antichrist is weakened and Christ hath begun to take the Kingdome out of his hand and shall have a visible Church like an Empire in all the known world and that to the end but that it is not yet 4. And do you not see it fulfilled before your eyes Are not Bewdley Kederminster c. and England till of late as fully Christs Disciple and so Church-members as the Jews were in Covenant with God and so Church-members Answ. If by it be meant the prophecies Psal. 2. 8. and 72. 11. I see them fulfilled though not in Mr. Bs. sense but the prophecie Revel 11. 15. I see not yet fulfilled I see at Bewdley Kederminster in England people who generally are called Christians but I do not see that all old and young are Disciples or Church-members or ought to be so accounted or that they were ever brought into such a Covenant as the Jews or-ought to be accounted Church-members by vertue of such a Covenant There is not a word in my writings to that effect Mr. B. chargeth me that I would not have Princes and Masters do what Abraham and Moses did in bringing the people of Israel into ' Covenant with God but I say that should they do so yet the Infants are not thereby to be accounted visible Church-members in a Christian Church The commission to gather the Christian Church was not given to the Emperour but Apostles The Apostles it is true were sent to proselyte them that were no Chuch-members and yet they were sent to proselyte or in the phrase of Scripture to Disciple the visible Church-members of the Jewish Church as well as the Gentiles What I said I still say that the different Church-call of the Jewish and Christian Churches is enough to shew a different Church-state and consequently the argument is not good from the Jewish Infants visible Church-membership to ours If Mr. Bs. judgement be not so commandable as to assent to what I say it is so much the lesse commendable The speech of Mr. Herle and the jest out of Matthiolus are misapplied When he saith why may we not write plainly against one anothers judgement by a loving consent He may know that it was my desire it should have been so that it was not so was from himself He that believes he hath shewed love in this his writing is very credulous For the rest if Mr. B. will have the patience and indifferency of judgement which is meet he may see an answer to his allegations about Gods mercy to Infants and the repeal of their visible Church-memship If he remain in his opinion which I much fear knowing him sowell as I do and I in mine we must leave our writings to others to judge especially to that day which shall declare every mans work being revealed in fire In the mean time sleighting his vain curse which is page 217. my prayer for him as my self is that we may do nothing against the truth but for the truth FINIS Cyprian and the other Collegues which in the Council were present to the number of 66. to brother Fidus greeting MOst dear brother we have read thy letters in which thou hast signified concerning one Victor a Presbyter that Therapius our Collegue in a time not ripe and with overmuch haste hath granted him peace before he had done full penance and satisfied the Lord God against whom he had offended Which thing hath enough moved us that he hath departed from the authority of our Decree that before the allowed and full time of fatisfaction and without the asking and privity of the common sort no infirmity urging nor necessity compelling peace should be granted to him But upon counsel weighed long with us it was enough to chide Therapius our Collegue in that he rashly did this and to have instructed him that for hereafter he do no such thing Yet we have not thought that the peace however once granted by a Priest of God should be taken away and for this cause we have permitted Victor to use the Communication granted to him But for what belongeth to the cause of Infants whom thou hast said should not be baptized within the second or third day in which they were born and that the law of antient Circumcision is to be considered so as that thou shouldest not think him that is born should be baptized and hallowed within the 8. day it seemed farre otherwise to all in our Council For unto this which thou thoughtest should be done none of us have agreed but all have rather judged that the mercy and grace of God is to be denied to none that are born of mankind For when the Lord in his Gospel saith The son of man came not to destroy mens souls but to save them as much as in us lies if it may be no soul is to be lost For what is wanting to him who is once formed in the wombe by the hand of God For to us and in our eyes they which are born do seem to receive growth according to the course of secular dayes but what ever things are made by God are perfected by the Majesty and work of God the Maker Lastly