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A11324 A treatise concernynge the diuision betwene the spirytualtie and temporaltie Saint German, Christopher, 1460?-1540. 1532 (1532) STC 21586; ESTC S104701 33,236 94

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hole ne sounde And therfore if it were asked / where is now the deuocion and obedience of the inferiours the defence of knyghtes the peace of Christen prynces / to the ende that they beynge at a concorde myght resyst and feight against sismatikes and infidels recouerynge agayne regions whiche they haue nowe taken fro christen men peruerted them It myght be answered / that they be gone throughe brekynge of suche lawes ¶ Many of these sayenges and dyuces other here omytted be the sayenges of Iohn̄ Gerson chāceller of Paris in a tretice that is called in latyne Declaratio defectuū virorum ecclesiasticorum In whiche treatyse he recyteth also dyuers abusyons / whereof I shall recyte parte vnder the maner of questyons for shortnes as he doth as well cōcernyng other countreys as this / that they may the rather be knowen and auoyded ¶ Fyrst he asketh this question What it auayleth / or what profiteth the church the superfluous pompe of prelates and cardynalles and what meaneth it ¶ Also that one man hathe .iiii. v. vi or viii benefices whereof he is nat percase worthy to haue one wherwith .viii. persons might be susteined that giue them self to lernyng / prayer to the seruice of god Here saythe he take hede Whether hors dogges byrdes and the superfluous company of men of the churche shulde rather eate the patrimonie of the churche than the poore menne of Christ / or that it be expended in the seruice of god and to the conuersion of infidels or in suche other werkes of mercye and pietie O howe many places saythe he ordeyned for the seruice of god in Rome or elles where / be nowe through the negligence of the prelates desolate and distroyed O howe is hit that the swerde of holye churche / that is the sentence of Excommunication to her owne dispite and reproofe is so lyghtly drawen out and for so lyttell a thynge as sometyme for dette is so cruelly executed vpon poore men What is it also that one cause vppon a smalle thynge shall contynue so many yeres and why is not that lengthe of tyme / whiche is the spoyler and robber of poore men in somme conuenient maner cutte away why is it not rather mercifully appoynted to the Iewes conuerted somme reasonable lyuynge of theyr owne goodes rather than by extreme necessite to compelle them to forsake the fayth agayne / and to reproue christen men / that they be cruelle and haue no pitie Iudge ye also sayth he whether so great varietie of ymages pictures be expedient and whether they do not peruert som symple ꝑsons to ydolatrie But here it is to be nooted / that Iohn̄ Gerson fyndeth not defaulte in settynge vp of ymages / for he commendeth it in many places of his werkes but he fyndeth defaulte at the varietie of them in theyr peyntyng and garnysshyng with golde / syluer precious stones and suche other / with so great ryches about them / that some symple persons myght lyghtly be enduced to beleue som special workyng to be in the ymages / that is not in them in dede And so he fyndeth defaute at the abuse of ymages and not at the settyng vppe of ymages Discusse also sayth the sayde Iohn̄ Gerson whether so large exempcions as some haue / be expedient and whether it be profitable so to lede them fro theyr ordinaryes Serche also saythe he if there be not some apocrifate wrytynges or prayers / or hymnes by processe of tyme / some of purpose som by negligence brought vp to the hurte of the fayth but than he asketh whether al prelates and prestes be gyltie in the articles aboue rehersed and he saythe our lorde forbede it For lyke as Helyas whan he had went that all the people of Israell hadde bene fallen to ydolatrie / herde our lorde saye I haue yet reserued seuen thousand mē / that neuer bowed theyr knees before Baale ryght so it maye be sayde that nowe in these dayes our lorde hath reserued ryghte many good menne bothe spirituall and temporalle / that be not gyltie in any of the sayde articles ne yet partie in any maner to the sayde diuysyon whiche through helpe of grace and with the fauour of the superiours / shall be ryghte well able to brynge the other to good accorde ¶ An other occasyon of this dyuysyon The thyrde Chapiter THere be many lawes and decrees made by the churche wherin it is recited ꝙ laici sunt clericis infesti that is to saye that laye men be cruell to clerkes / and therfore the churche hath therupon made dyuers lawes to opresse that crueltie / as in them appereth And therupon hath folowed that whan prestes haue red the lawes / they haue iuged therby that theyr reulers haue knowen some great crueltie in laye men agaynst clerkes For elles they wolde not haue put tho wordes in to theyr lawes and that hath caused many spyrytuall men to adiuge the more lyghtly that suche thynges as laye men haue done concernynge them hath rather ben done of malice and cruelte than otherwise and that iudgement in processe of tyme hath caused them to confedre them selfe togider to resiste that malice / whiche they many tymes by occasion of the sayde wordes haue iudged to be greatter than it was and haue many tymes recited the wordes / affermynge them to be true and therfore they haue extended all lawes / that be made agaynst laye men the more extremely agaynste them Whereby the people in many countreys haue ben so ofte greued and oppressed that they haue grutched marueyllously at it And whan laye men haue redde tho wordes they haue takē therby that the makers of tho lawes / whiche represent in them the estate of al spyrytuall men haue iudged that the makers therof thoughte that lay men were cruelle agaynst them and where cruelte is iudged to be / there is no loue For like as nothyng helpeth more to norysshe loue in a man / thā that he maye knowe that the other louethe hym though he neuer receyued any profyte by hym so nothynge nouryssheth more dyuysion and discorde than that a man know that another loueth him not / though percase he knowe / that he neuer dyd hym hurte / ne entendeth not to do And therfore whan lay men haue by tho wordes taken occasyon to thynke / that spyrytuall men haue adiuged crueltie in them they haue anon iudged that spyritual men loue them not and that hath in theyr hartes broken the charitable loue and obedyence / that they ought to haue to spyrytuall reulers and thoughe the occasion of this article be not vniuersally for al lay men haue not sene tho wordes yet the reporte of tho wordes hath come to the knowlege of many lay men as well by spyrytuall men as by temporall men that haue redde them whiche by longe contynuance hath norysshed one great branche of this diuisyon / whiche I suppose veryly wylle neuer fullye be appeysed tyll the spyrytuall gouernours wil be as dilygēt to
mystaken them selfe in the sayd articles yet dyuers other haue sayd that yf they had bene well and charitably handeled they myghte haue benne refourmed and paraduenture saued in bodye and in soule ¶ And vpon al these maters there is rysen a great opynyon in the people in maner vniuersally that in punysshyng and corrections all these persones before rehersed shulde haue lyke punysshemente yf spyrytuall men myght haue free libertye in that behalfe And that spyrytuall men wolde yf they coulde as well put them to scilence / that speke ayenst the abusyon or disordre of suche thynges as be before rehersed / as them that speke ayenst the thynge selfe And many other murmours grudges besyde these that be before rehersed be amonge the people mo than I can reherse now but yet aboue all other me thynketh that it is moost to be lamented and sorowed / that spyrytuall men / knowynge these grudges and murmuracions among the people and knowynge also that many laye men haue opinion / that a great occasion therof ryseth by spyrytual men / and that they do no more to appease them ne to ordre them selfe in no other maner for the appeasynge of them than they do For al that they do therin most commenly is this they take it that they that fynde defaute at suche abusions and disordre loue no preestes and therfore they esteme that they doo of malyce all that they do to distroye the churche and to haue theyr goodes and possessions them selfe And therfore they thynke it a good dede to se theym punysshed so that they shall not be able to brynge theyr malyce to effecte And therfore haue they punysshed many persons which moch people haue iuged them to do vpon will and of no loue vnto the people And though spiritual men are bound in this case for appesyng of these opiniōs in the people whiche be so daūgerous as wel to spirituall men as to tēporall men / that many soules stonde in great peril therby not onely to reforme them selfe and to leue and auoyde all thynges that gyue occasyon to the people so to offende that maye by charitie be omytted and lefte / but also to fast praye / were the heare / gyue almes and to doo other good dedes for them selfe and for the people cryenge continually to our lorde that these diuisions may ceasse and that peace and concord may come agayne into the worlde yet it appereth nat that they do so but that they rather continue styll after the olde course pretendynge by confederacies and worldely policies and streyte corrections to rule the people and that is greately to be lamented and it wyll be harde for them to brynge it so about But yf they wolde a lyttle meken them selfe and withdrawe suche thynges as haue brought the people into this murmoure and grudge they shulde anone brynge a newe lyghte of grace into the worlde and brynge the people to perfyte loue and obedience to theyr superiours And here me thynketh I myght saye ferther in one thynge / and that is this / that as longe as spirituall rulers wyll either pretende that theyr auctoritie is so hygh / and so immediatly deriued of god that the people are bounde to obeye them / and to accepte all that they do and teache / withoute argumentes resistence or grudgyng ayenst them or that they wyll pretende that no defaulte is in them but in the people and wyll yet contynue styll in the same maner and after the same worldly countenaunce as they do now and haue don late tyme past The lyght of grace that is spoken of before wyll nat appere but that bothe partyes shall walke in this darknes of malice and diuision as they haue done in tyme past ¶ An other occasyon of this diuision The seconde Chapter THere haue ben made in tymes past many good lawes by the chirch for the good ordre of spyrytuall men / which were right necessarye to be kepte to this day whiche now be altered eyther by a lawe made to the contrarye or by somme euylle custome brought vp and suffered agaynste them And I shal brefly recite some of them as I haue founde them wrytten by other before this tyme. ¶ Fyrste there was a lawe made / that a man well approued in his werkes and doctrine shulde be made a bysshop and nat a chylde ne a carnall man / or that is vnlerned in spyrytuall thynges ¶ Also that nothynge shulde be gyuen in any place for buryals / confession gyuynge of ordres / ne for any of the sacramentes nor for any promocion ¶ Also that bysshoppes prestes shuld nat be at vayn worldly sightes or pleys ne delyte in them ¶ That it is nat laufull for a bysshoppe or preeste to be absente on the sondaye but to be at masses and that fastynge ¶ That no preest shulde eat flesshe from Quinquagesime to Ester ¶ That prestes shulde fast Aduent ¶ That bysshoppes and preestes and especyally monkes and religyous / shall studye in heuenly scriptures / all lernynges and practyses of litygyous thynges lefte and set aparte ¶ That the bysshop shall euery yere go aboute his dioces with great diligence and effecte ¶ That heuenly scriptures be redde at the bysshops table ¶ That a clerke full of fowle wordes shall be put from his office ¶ That the wages of clerkes shal be gyuen after theyr merites ¶ That preestes shal eschewe feastes at mariages ¶ That clerkes shall comme in no tauernes ¶ That a bysshope shall haue poore apparell lodgyng and table and fedynge for poore men ¶ That a bysshop shal not lyghtly striue for transytorie thynges ¶ That clerkes shulde rather studie that theyr bretherne that varie be brought to peace than to iudgement ¶ That a clerke shulde instructe euery man with his wordes and to the entent that poore men shuld not be greued that they shulde get theyr lyuyng with some handy crafte as saynt Paule dyd ¶ That clerkes shall nat take vppon them the actes or procuracyons of seculer men ¶ That laye men shal not make clerkes theyr factoures or gouernoures vnder them ¶ That monkes after the counseylle of Calcidonence shal be holly entendynge to fastynges and prayers in the places where they renounced the worlde and that they forsake not theyr monasteries for no busynes of the churche ne of the worlde ¶ That clerkꝭ that customably be players at tables or hunters shal be prohybit of houslynge And saynt Iohn̄ Chrysostom vpon Mathewe the .xxi. Chapiter sayth that as of the temple comethe out all goodnes / so of the temple al euyl procedeth And therfore it foloweth that if preesthode be hole all the churche floryssheth And if it be corrupte the fayth and vertue of the people fadeth also and falleth awaye as if thou see a tree that hath wethered leues thou knowest ther by that there is a defaut in the rote / soo whan thou seest the people lyue out of good ordre knowe it for certayne that theyr preesthode is not
shortly cesse and vanysshe away ¶ An other cause of this dyuysion The .xii. Chapyter AN other cause of this dyuysyon hathe bene by reason of dyuers lawes and constitutyons whiche haue bene made by the churche sometyme by the Pope somtyme by Legates / or by Metropolitanes in theyr prouince wherin they haue many times exceded theyr auctoritie and attempted in many thynges agaynste the lawe of the realme And yet neuertheles many priestes haue giuen full credence to them / for they haue thought that the makers therof whiche were the heedes of the churche wolde nat make any lawe but by good and sufficiēt auctoritie And thervppon it hathe folowed / that whan any doubte or question hath rysen vpon the sayd lawes all spiritual men in maner wolde stycke fast to the lawes and many temporall men by reason of a comen vse and custome that they haue sene to the contrarie haue resisted them whervppon haue rysen in many places great stryfe varyaunces great expences in the spirituall lawe Wherby many temporall men haue thought that spirituall courtes be rather vsed for maintenaunce of couetise thā for ministraciō of iustice And thoughe with the mercye of oure lorde the trouthe is nat so vniuersally yet some diligence wolde be taken to remoue that iudgement fro the people ¶ And of these lawes is the constitution of Bonyface the Archebysshoppe of Canterbury / wherby it is decreed that he that letteth a woman couerte to make her wyll or that letteth it to be proued is accursed and the lawe of the realme is that a woman couerte hathe no goodes that she may make any wyll of excepte it be of a thynge in action or that she were executrix before And if she were so than with licence of her husbande she may make an executour to the intent he may leuye the dette or fulfyll the fyrst wyll An other lyke law is of the decree of the ryghte reuerende father in god Roberte Wynchelsye / late archebysshop of Canterbury made against the comen custom of the realme for tithe of wood aboue .xx. yere nat to be payde / whiche custome was confermed by the statute made in the .xiv. yere of king E. the .iii. that is commenly called the statute of Silua cedua By reason of whiche decree great sutes variances expenses haue ensued and wyl ensue if it be suffered wherfore the sayde estatute wolde be throughly sene And yf hit be good than nat to suffre any decree to stande agaynste it / and els clerely to breke it Other lyke lawes be the lawes that be made by the churche that executoures shall nat vppon payne of cursynge administre tyll they haue proued the testament where the lawe of the realme is / that they may so reason wold that they shulde be for els the goodes of the testatour myght be enbeselled lost for euer And that lay mē may nat put clerkes to answer before thē specially in criminal causes And for the strēgth of tho lawes many spiritual mē haue reportid openly that somtyme in open sermōs that such puttyng to answer of pristes before lay men is prohibited by the law of god / wherupon me thynketh ar greatly to be noted these pointes / that is to say that if it be as they say / that it is ayenst the lawe of god / that than great defaut is in them that they haue done no more to refourme it than they haue done for clering the consciēce of so many people as than daily offend therby And if it be ●at as they say / than they mainteyn an vntruth which is a great offēce in men of such grauite ꝑfectiō as they be And they also be therby boūden to restitutiō as the temporal princis which ought to haue theyr fynes amerciamentes vpō suche sutes as shulde be taken agaynst preestes in theyr courtes wherof they or many tymes excluded by reson of the said pretensed priuilege And if it could be sufficiently proued that it is ayenste the law of god to put pristes to answer before lay men than degrading of them could nat helpe For nat withstandyng the disgradyng the caracter abideth / so he is a prest styl as he was before And I suppose verily that thā the kinges ꝓgenitors wold in time past haue assēted to it And that the kyngꝭ grace all his realme wolde with good wyll also conforme them self to it / but that was neuer sufficiently proued as farre as I haue herde And to that that some spyrytuall men say that it is an auncient custome and a custome approued that priestes in felonies / murthers treasons shulde nat be put to aunswere before laye men and that by reason of that olde custome they oughte to be pryuyleged in that behalf / though it can nat be proued directly by the lawe of god to that it maye be answered that there was neuer yet suche custom in this realm approued For priestes haue ben arrained alway for treson and felony before the kynges Iustyces And for treson it hath ben sene that they haue ben put in execution / as it appereth by a complaynt made by the clergy in the parlyament holden in the .xxv. yere of kynge Edwarde the thyrde pro Clero / where the clergye complayned that prestes monkes religious were contrarye to the liberties of the churche as they sayde put to dethe and vppon that complaynt it was enacted that all maner clerkes as well secular as religious that shulde fro thens forthe be conuicte before any Iustice secular for any maner of tresō or felony / touchyng other persons / than the kyng or his royal maiestie shulde haue fro thens forthe freely the pryuylege of holye churche and be withoute lette or delaye delyuered to the ordinarie them demaundyng And it semeth that by that terme Clerke in that statute pro Clero is vnderstond as well clerkes that be within orders as clerkes that can rede as clerkes and yet be nat within orders for they shall haue theyr clergy in petyte treason / whiche be commenly taken to be suche treasons / as be recited in the later ende of the declaraciō of treason made in the sayde .xxv. yere of Ed. the .iii. whereof the eschete belongeth to the lordes of the fee. But in the other treasons that be recited in the sayd declaracion / whereof the forfayture is onely to the kynge none shall haue his clergye by the comon lawe / clerke within orders nor lay man that can rede / nethere is nat any remedy prouyded for no maner of clerkes in tho tresons / for they touche the kyng and his royal maiestie And therfore they be excepted in the sayd statute ꝓ Clero as before apereth be comonly called hygh treasōs of that nature of treasō is now wasshyng / clippyng fylyng of money for the statute made āno .ii. H. v. is that it shal be tresō to the kynge to the realme And therefore no clerk can there haue his clergy
than zele of soules dothe / it is good that euery man dispose hym selfe as nyghe as he can / to haue that zele And if he may through grace come thervnto it shall instructe hym in many thynges how he shal behaue him selfe anenste his neyghbour And fyrste hit shall teache hym / that he shall take hede that he do nothynge / that myght gyue occasion vnto his neyghbour to offende And I vnderstonde nat therby that he shall onely take hede that he do none euyll dede wherby his neyghboure maye take occasion to offende whiche in latyn is called offendiculum / that is to say / an occasion to offende but I meane also that he shall take hede / that his neyghboure take none occasion to offende by no dede that he shall do thoughe it be good as gyuyng of almes or buyldynge of churches or suche other which if the people iuged to be done of pryde vaine glory / must be lefte for a tyme for hurtynge of them that be of that opinion tyll they maye be instructed of the intente of the dede And yf they wyll in no wyse be refourmed than bycause hit semeth to be of malice as was in the phariseys their iudgement may be dispysed / the good dede contynued ¶ Also where trouth shulde perysshe / if the good dede shulde be omytted / there a good dede is not to be omytted And accordynge to that is sayde before / the blessed apostell saynt Paule of a great zele that he had to the people / sayde ¶ If eatynge of flesshe shulde hurt my neyghbour I wolde neuer eate flesshe And therfore in the sayd chapiter he monysshed all them that wolde eate mete that was offered to ydolles before them that were newly conuerted of the Gentyles / and that were yet but weke in the faythe that they shulde beware that though they knewe that they myghte lawfully do as they dydde that yet they shulde take hede that theyr brother were not offended therby And in all that chapiter the holy apostell treateth moch that it is good to euery man to be ware / that through his dede he gyue no occasion to his brother to offende And I beseche almyghty god that euery manne but moost specially our lordes and maisters spirituall may hereafter endeuor them selfe to kepe wel this poynt that is to say / that they do nothyng to gyue the people occasion to offende and ouer that that they may diligently instructe the vnlerned people to the knowlege of the trouthe / and to stable them as well by doctrine as by good example / al singularite sette aparte And for as moche as doctrine and good example perteyne moste specially to prelates and spiritual rulers therfore I shall brefely recyte certayne auctorities / that shall some what moue them to haue a zele and loue vnto the people And also to be pyteous vnto them And for shortenes I shall omytte for this tyme to shewe by whome the said auctorities were spoken besechyng the reders to take heede to the wordes that be spoken though hit appere not who speake them ¶ First I fynde diuers auctorities that say thus It is expedient that prelates study more to profite the people than to haue preeminence ouer the people ¶ Also I fynde wrytten / that thoughe punisshemēt may not holly be omytted that yet it profyteth moche / that it be somtyme deferred ¶ Also that it behoueth necessarily that he that hath rule ouer other brenne euer in a quycke lyuely zele to the helthe of theyr soules that he hath rule of And that els he shal lyttel profyte vnto them And therfore he coueteth vndiscretly to haue rule ouer them that he studyeth not to profyte vnto And therfore this is sayde specially to prelates and to other that haue rule ouer the people Rule ye to forsee the perylles and daungers of them that ye haue rule of / to counsaylle them to procure theyr helth and to serue and to profyte to other / as good faythful and wyse seruauntes whome our lorde hath ordeyned ouer his householde Plante ye vertue in them by holsomme doctrine / water it by good example and helpe them with your prayour / and thā haue ye done that perteineth to you and our lorde shal well gyue encrece of growynge / whan hit shall please hym / and that parauenture there as after mannes iugement was farre vnlyke These thre thynges therfore be very necessary doctryne example / and prayour but the greattest of them is prayour It is also sayd to the prelates thus Knowe ye that ye oughte to be as mothers to the people and not as lordes / and ye ought to studye rather to be beloued thā dred and if it be necessary some tyme to haue correction that it be a fatherly correction and not as it were of a tyraunte / and show your selfe as mothers in norisshynge of the people / and as fathers in correctyng them Be meke / put away al fiersenes / forbere betyng / speke vnto the people faire sobre wordes and set not your yock to greuously vpon thē whose burdeyns ye ought rather to bere If ye be spiritual instruct the people in the spirite of Softenes let euery mā cōsidre hym selfe well leest that he may be also tempted He that is a mother dyssymuleth not / he can ioye with them that ioye / wepe with them that wepe / and he wylle not ceasse to thruste oute of the breste of compassion the mylke of cōsolation He taketh hede if he can perceyue any mā / that is vexed with any great temptacion or trouble / and that is heuy weike therwith And if he finde any such with him he soroweth him louingly he entreteth him he cōforteth findeth anon many argumētes of pitie trust wherwith he resseth him vp ayen to cōfort of spirit And yf he knowe any that is prompte / quick wel profityng ī grace / he ioyeth with hym he giueth hym many holsome coūsailes kindeleth him / and instructeth hym all that he can to perceuer and profyte euer fro better to better he conformeth him selfe to euery mā he torneth the effections of al men vnto him selfe in al goodnes and proueth him selfe verily to be a mother as well of them that be offenders as of them that profiteth in grace And as a trewe leche he seketh as well them that be sycke as theym that be hoole / and all this he dothe through the gyfte of pitie and of a zele that he hath to the helth of theyr soules Also a good diligence shepeherde neuer cessethe to fede his flocke with good lessons and exaumples and that with his owne example rather than with other mens For yf he fede them with other mens examples and not with his own / hit is but a rebuke vnto hym and his flocke shal not profyte moche therby For if a prelate wyll shew vnto the people the sobrenes of Moises the pacience of Iob the mercy of