perhaps if you saw that worship gravely managed you should be more reconciled to it As for the Ceremonies I will medle with none but such as were commanded here well known by the name of the five Articles of Perth And for these if you can hear â—nd understand reason I doubt not to convince â—ou they were both lawful and most of them â—oth useful and necessary I begin with confirmation N. Well is not this a Popish Sacrament which you would bring into the Church C. I confess if it had been introduced as a Sacrament you had reason to except against it but you know no such thing was ascribed to it and it was only designed for a solemn renovation of the Baptismal Vow Now since Children are baptized and so in Baptism do not ingage foâ— themselves can any thing be more rational than that when they come to the years of discretion they do it themselves And this Rite waâ— very ancient in the Church and with great show of reason the laying on of hands mentioned witâ— Baptisms Heb. 6. was expounded of it and yoâ— know most Reformers were for it N. But why must it be done only by a Bishop as if it were beyond Baptism C. That was only to conciliat the more veneration for it by making it the more solemn and therefore it hath been generally appropriated to the Bishop Yet I shall not contend about that since St. Ambrose or rather Hilary saith that in Egypt the Presbyters in the Bishop's absence did confirm And St. Ierom saith that â— Bishop did nothing except the Ordination whicâ— a Presbyter did not likewise The next Articlâ— was private Baptism N. This was another piece of Popery to makâ— the Sacraments necessary to Salvation C. It is rather gross Superstition to confirâ— the Sacramental actions to the walls of a Church for it is the assembly of the faithful that makes â— Church Our Saviour said Where two or three are gathered together in my Name I will be in the midst of them As for the necessity of the Sacraments none calls them simply necessary to Salvation but since they were commanded they ought to be used unless some more cogent reason stop the use of them than is the want of a dedicated House And who should expect that they who are so much against reverence to Sacred Houses should likewise be against private Sacraments As for Baptism what a cruel thing is it to oblidge Children especially when they are tender to be brought perhaps in the coldest season many miles rather than go and Baptize at their Houses this looks liker Heathenish barbarity than the Christian tenderness And for Communion why should not sick persons receive on death-bed when all the reasons of receiving are most strong Their faith and love needs then to be most quickened Never is the death of Christ more to be remembred than when they are to pass through the valley and shadow of death and never is it more fit that they declare their Communion with the Church and their love to the Brethren than when they are entering upon their last pangs And it is well known how early a practice this was in the Church of God Iustin Martyr tells that they sent of the Eucharist to them that were absent and by the famous Story of Serapion about the 200. year it is apparent how necessary the Christians then thought it was to be guarded with this holy Viaticum Private Sacraments then are not proposed as necessary but as highly expedient which I think I have made appear they are N. But what can you say for kneeling in receiving sure this looks like Superstition and Idolatry C. I confess this is the Article of them all I have the least fondness on but it is great uncharitableness to call it Idolatry when such as do so declare they neither believe Christ to be corporally present nor do they intend any Worship to the Bread and Wine but direct their worship to God and Christ for that death which is therein shewed forth N. But why do not you sit since our Saviour did institute this rite in the Table-gesture C. Since you do not exactly follow Christ you ought not to stand at this none therefore should alledge this but such as Communicat leaning and after supper and in an upper Room And though the Passover was ordained to be eaten by the Jews standing with their loins girt and their shooes on their feet yet without any written warrand they changed that posture into the ordinary eating posture and did eat the Passover leaning in which our Saviour conformed to them And if the Jews against an expresseâ— precept without any countermand may changâ— the posture sure the Christians who are lesse restrained as to outwards may change the gestureâ— especially there being no command for it and but a lame example since our Saviour did not sit but lean And perhaps more veneration is due to that action now that our Saviour is exalted than he could have allowed of in his humiliation N. What can you say for holy dayes can any man make dayes holy C. If by holy dayes you mean portions of time so sacred that in these dayes our services are more acceptable to God than on other dayes or that of their own nature they are holy so that of it self it is a sin not to be particularly devout on these dayes you have reason to say none can make a day holy And this was never asserted But it is another thing to keep peculiar dayes of thanksgiving for the great and signal mercies of the Gospel-dispensation I confesse I am so dull as not to be able to apprehend what evil can be in such customs And it is undoubted that in all ages and places of the Church Christians have had a peculiar veneration for these Dayes St. Paul saith of the legall holy Dayes he that regardeth a day to the Lord he doth regard it And if Moses his Feasts might have been kept holy to the Lord much more may these be which the Church hath instituted Beside you know the observation of Easter and Pentecost are according to clear History derived from Apostolical practices And it appears St. Paul hasted to be at Ierusalem to keep the feast of Pentecost there And from all this I may assume that your dislike of these Festivals and the other Articles of Perth is ill grounded DIALOGUE VI. N. I See we have no reason to hope for any good from you who are so fierce against uâ— â—uâ— God be thanked an ill-willed Cow hath froâ—â—â—orns C. If by fiercenesse you mean a desire to see you â—uined and destroyed you mistake me quite since there is none living moâ—â— a verse from fierce and violent â—ourses than my self I love all Christians who live according to the rules of the Gospel And I pity such as I judge mistaken knowing how subject I am to errour my self I quarrel with no man for his opinion in these matters which are
and the paying of Taxes And after the Tragical Catastrophe of the unlawfully called unlawful Engagement they barred the Nobility from their priviledges as Peers till they must be satisfied N. All that was done in order to Religion which is in the Churches care C. This is the very Plea of the Pope and indeed in Politicks the Pope and the Presbyterians agree in moe things than you think on By this Maxime all Civil matters must come under Ecclesiastical cognizance since every action can be reduced to one of the Tables of the Law But particularly to medle with War and matters of Blood hath been ever judged directly contrary to the Pastoral duty which obligeth to feed and not to kill But I shall add one thing more which was your Superstition N. I had resolved to have objected that to you and I am sure we cannot be guilty of it since there is nothing we hate more C. You know not the true notion of it and so are guiltier then you are aware of Superstition is an over-rating of things as if God were more pleased with them than indeed he is And therefore to lay too great weight upon any thing is superstition He then that judgeth a thing of it self indifferent to be necessary And he that condemns it as unlawful are equally superstitious It were a long and tedious story to let you see how great weight you laid upon many small matters both in doing and forbearing But I will leave particulars to your conscience and I protest in all I havâ— said I have no other design but to teach you noâ— to have mens persons or wayes too much in admiration N. You have now run out in a long and furiouâ— career against us hear me next reckon the excellent things were amongst us and I doubt not yoâ— shall confesse our good did far preponderat ouâ— evil C. I shall hear you with all my heart but in thâ— mean time let us take a little refreshment anâ— respite N. Be it so DIALOGUE II. â— NOw let us again resume our discourse and tell me what great goodnesse was it which â—o commended your party for I love what is good â—e where it will and therefore though I be none â—f your party yet I shall heartily rejoyce to hear â—ood of them N. I fear you are either so carnal as not to reâ—ish things that are spiritual or so byassed as not â—o set the due value upon us But who can doubt we were the people of God who remember how we bore down sin and wickednesse How much good preaching there was amongst us What ferâ—our was on peoples mindes when they heard Sermons What heavenly prayers we poured out to God But when I remember our Fasts and dayes of Communion my very heart breaks to think these sweet dayes are now gone Then what delight in Scripture had we that all our Vulgar were acquainted with it How well was the Sabbath observed amongst us And what order was there in Families morning and evening All this is now gone Alas for poor Scotland that had once the light of the Gospel so brightly shining in it But now ah ah for the darknesse that hath overspread it had you but seen what I saw your very heart would have been ravished with it C. Truly I expected to have heard some great matter from you of the self-denial contempt of the world resignation humility meeknesse patience obedience charity abstraction of minde and the other great heights of Christian Religion but you tell me only of their external devotion which how good soever it be yet is far from being the Character of a Christian since the very Pharisees were eminent in those things N. I told you you were carnal and savoured not the things of God you look after morality as the great matter but we look after true Christianity C. If by morality you mean the affecting a vertuous behaviour without a dependance on God and Christ I have as low an account of it as any can have but if by morality you mean a pure and holy Conversation I doubt it is the greatest and best part of Religion Without which the other parts are but hypocrisie and formality But I shall examine all these things which seem to knit your hearts so much to that way And shall begin with their diligence in repressing sin I confesse they had a kind of Discipline but it was wholly different from the rules of the Gospel and far short of the ancient Bishops discipline N. I see you undervalue every thing we did but I am sure you have no reason for it C. First then were not your Church-Sessions like Birla-Courts where every one came and complained of wrongs which belonged to the Magistrate for the Church should only meddle with sins as they are Scandals and not as they are injuries Next Dilations according to our Lords rule should not be received till the person be first privately admonished by the party offended next by two or three and if he be obstinat the Church should be told But you observed no such rule Next you imposed and exacted Fines which was the Magistrate's work whereas the Church should take no money but what is offered in Charity You also forced people to stoop to your Discipline for if they refused you threatned them with the temporal sword which by the unhappinesse of the times was too much at your dispose And this sheweth that you did not carry on the Gospel by a Gospel-spirit though that was ever in your mouthes but by secular wayes for offenders should come and offer themselves to Discipline and not be driven to it The time wherein your pennance lasted was also short the ancient Bishops did separate offenders as many years as you did weeks It is also clear you used Discipline to put a temporal shame upon offenders For you set them in a high place to be gazed upon whereas they should have been rather set without the doors of the Church And to conclude how wretchedly did you abuse this subjecting people to censure for your triffling matters when you knew they were acting a mock-penitence and were more zealous to preach against oppositions to your courses than against the oppositions to the everlasting Gospel N. Now you tax us for what we were very free of Was ever sin so boldly reproved as in our Pulpits Our Ministers sparing no rank nor quality C. I confesse some things I say not sins you reproved boldly enough not sparing the Lords Anointed whose pretended faults you like so many unnatural Hams were ready enough to publish when your so doing could have no other effect but to irritate his Subjects against him How often was that sacred Prince charged with Popery Tyranny and the Massacre of Ireland and that Royal Family termed the bloody-house yea after his accursed enemies had murdered him when common humanity should have oblidged you to let the dead alone and Christianity should have taught you to have had more
Discipline what warrand of Scripture have you for it N. The excommunicating the Incestuous person and the noting those that walk disorderly c. C. I do not deny but there are clear grounds for separating scandalous persons from our Worship but why so many dayes and why in a place of repentance and why the use of Sack-cloath sometimes is not this the device of men bring Scripture for it N. Sure the Church hath power to do in these things as shall tend most to order and the dayes place and habit are but external things C. Now I have you at a great advantage though you understand it not Why may the Church impose such dayes of penitence and not as well order all for the sins of the year to be in penitence all the time of Lent And why is one place made a part for Penitents to be in and may not another with as good and better reason be made the proper place for Communicating And why may not a Church-man officiat in a Surplice as well as a penitent put on Sack-cloath since the one is a ceremony expressive oâ— repentance as well as the other is of innocence and both were equally practised under the Law N. I confesse I did not think on these things but I believe our Ministers have answers to them C. You may well believe for you shall never see it for there is no imaginable difference betwixt them One thing I confesse that a man once resolved not to believe a thing if he have any subtiltie of spirit will make a shift to say somewhat upon any thing But I have not done with shewing your difformity with the Scripture-pattern since then we were just now speaking of the Council at Ierusalem why do you not observe that Law N. Because that was only to bury the Synagogue with honour and as for the meats offered to idols St. Paul takes that away C. This is like you still to devise fancies against expresse Scripture where sayes the Scripture that was done to please the Jews as for St. Paul consider that he wrote his Epistle before he went to Ierusalem and yet St. Iames tels him these things were still observed there which shews that a thing may be obligatory in one place and not in another and so that in these externals commands are not intended for lasting obligations Next why use you not washing of feet since there is no Sacrament set down more punctually in Scripture The Element is Water the Action washing the feet the Institution as I have done so do ye and ye ought to wash one anothers feet and the spiritual use of it is humility Why do you not therefore use this rite N. Why do not you use it since you cannot refuse the Scripture more than we C. For all such matters I have a clear answer that in these externals God intended no perpetual obligation and therefore in them I follow the practice of the Catholick Church Next in your Worship why do you not kisse one another with a holy kisse why do you not anoint the sick with oyl as St. Iames commandeth N. It is clear that was extraordinary for he promises recovery upon the anointing C. No such matter it is upon the prayer of faith that he promises recovery he also promiseth forgivenesse and since you pray by all and do not say that it is more then a mean for their being raised up and forgiven why do you not as well anoint since the Scripture commands it But all this shews that however with women and simple people you talk much of your sticking to the Word and by your grave nods and big words would perswade them that it is so yet you are as far from it as any I shall end all this with an instance of great importance who taught you the change of the Sabbath I am far from speaking against the Church that did so but you will read the Bible long ere you finde it there that of their meeting on the first day of the week sayeth not that they antiquated the Saturnday that of the Lords day saith yet lesse for it N. Well what make you of all this it may well prove our Church was not perfect it never justifies you Or do you mean to lay aside the Scriptures C. It once checks your insolence who pretend so big upon so light grounds and it is certainly a directer opposition to Scripture to neglect what is expresly enjoyned as you do than to add in some lesser matters All I say upon the whole matter is that the Scriptures were designed by God for the purifying the hearts and conversations of men and therefore it was not necessarie they should contain direct rules for the Church-policy which being a half civil matter needs not divine warrands and therefore the common rules are in Scripture that there should be Church Officers that those should be separate for that Function that they should be obeyed that things should be done to order edification and peace These are everlasting obligations because the reasons of them are perpetual But the other rules were accommodat to the then state of things which altering they alter likewise And this is so rational that I can see nothing to be excepted against it with any shew or colour of reason Nay this looks like the Christian liberty for whereas the old dispensation was bound up and limited to the smallest matters Christ hath delivered us from that law of Ordinances and hath made us free N. This is to take the Crown off Christs head and to pull him off his Throne and to deny him King which was the good confession he witnessed before Pilate and for which he came into the world this also makes him unfaithful and inferiour to Moses C. These are fine devices to terrifie simple people and with such talk you triumph among women and in your Conventicles But how little reason will suffice to let a man see through that canting I say then Christs Crown his Throne and Kingdom is an inward and spiritual one and not of the world nor as the Kingdoms of the world And a great part of his Kingdom is the liberty whereto he hath called us freeing us from the yoke of the former slavery and pedagogy And since no Allegory holds it is ridiculous to argue because offices in a Kingdom are named by the King therefore it must be so in the Church since you may as well say there must be coin stamped by Christ. Beside what King will think his prerogative lessened by constituting a Corporation to whom he shall leave a liberty to cast themselves into what mould they please providing they obey the general lawes and hold that liberty as a thing depending upon him Christs faithfulnesse consisted in his discharging the Commission given him by the Father of which whosoever doubts let him be Anathemae Maranathae But who told you it was in the Fathers Commission If you argue from Moses it will say more
house of Aaron was high Priest and the Romanes by force driving them from their right exposed this most sacred function to sale so that the high Priests not only invaded the right of others but also obtained their office by the most horrid Simony imaginable yet Caiaphas as high Priest prophesied Our Saviour also answered at his Bar and gave confession when he authoritatively adjured him in the Name of the living God St. Paul also acknowledged Annanias And though the Pharisees were wretched teachers guilty both of greater crimes and heresies than you dare charge on us Yet our Saviour saith hear them for they sit in Moses Chair This is so convincing that nothing in reason can be alledged against it Yea it was the doctrine of your own Teachers Finally what cruelty is it if a Minister be put from his place be it justly or unjustly that the people should be starved It shews your Ministers can have no love to their flocks if they desire it should be so N. But your Curats are naughty men and weak preachers C. This is an excellent piece of Religion in you to take up and use reproachful names of your Pastors For though the name Curat be a designation no Minister ought to be ashamed of it signifying one that hath the care of Souls yet ye use it as a term of contempt and this is your obedience to St. Pauls rule honour them that are over you in the Lord Which as he addes is for their works sake and not for their persons sake as you do As for their persons and Gifts where is Christian charity that should make you slow to take up a bad impression upon slight grounds But if your grounds be good where is your charity to the Church since you do not make it known that they may be cast out Beside it will open a very wide door to separation if you say that upon the personal failings much more weaknesse of a Preacher you may separate This is to ty the good of Church Worship to him that mannageth it And further it seems you think to hear Sermon all you go to Church for But the chief reason of our meeting is solemnly to acknowledge God and that we are members of his Church which we can do be the Minister what he will and hear good Scriptures read and sing good Psalms Besides let me tell you you are not so zealous for good Preachings as you would make the world believe For are there not many of your Preachers who while they were in place were of no esteem nor following and are undoubtedly men of weak Gifts yet now are crouded to by you and the Church Sermons are deserted and their Conventicles frequented All the reason for this is because they rail against the Church and State which is the only way to make a man popular amongst you N. You have pretended to answer a great many things but one thing remains wherein our chief strength lieth and that you shall never be able to unbind which is the Covenant wherein the whole Nation and the generations to come in their loins are engaged and can such sacred and solemn vowes be broken without shameful perjury C. This you alwayes bring out as your Goliah to defy the Armies of the living God But as Sampson's strength lay in his hair without which he was as other men so upon a full survey it appears that the Covenants strength consisted in the Armies that fought for it and not in any inward or innate vigour And first what a ridiculous fancy is it to say Children can be bound by their fathers Oath is not this to make us the servants of men and to give them authority over our consciences which is Gods peculiar power Alas what kind of souls have you that can be led into such conceits N. Doth not the fathers debt oblidge the son why not also his oath C. A mans debt affects his estate which if the son get he is bound to pay the debt But if the son get no estate by his father then I hope you will not say he is bound to pay his fathers debt And this shews that the fathers promises binde nothing upon the sons conscience N. But are not we bound to duty to the King because of the Allegeance our fathers swore even though we never swear it our selves C. Not at all because they swore Allegeance but because the right of the Crown is in the Kings person and therefore we are born his Subjects N. But how was Adam oblidged for his Posterity if Parents cannot binde their children C. This is strange dealing to apply a mysterie of our faith which we cannot well comprehend to your triffling matters But take notice that Adam did not binde his children by his undertaking for them but by a secret transaction of Gods who covenanted with him as with the common head of mankind And if Parents can bind duties upon their children they may as well bind sins upon them And this is new Doctrine unheard-of in the Church which never acknowledged any Original sin but that derived from Adam N. How then do Parents vow for their children in Baptism and are not they bound by the Baptismal vow taken by the father in their name C. The Parent binds for the childe as a tutor in legal matters for his Pupil that is they bind for their interest The childe is indeed tyed by his Baptism not as it was his fathers vow but because by the command of God he was Baptized into the likenesse of Christ. N. How then is Saul charged and his children punished for killing the Gibeonites C. It was not because he had falsified the oath the Princes swore which is no where said But these Gibeonites by that oath got a right to their lives and so were excepted when God ratified it from the general command of cutting off the Canaanites therefore to kill them waâ— cruelty and not perfidy And Saul is not taxeâ— of perjury but of blood For although the second of Samuel make mention of the oath sworâ— to them that is only to reminde the Reader oâ— the History set down in Joshuah but doth not at all say the oath was still binding as appears from the words Thus I have taken more pains thaâ— was needful to shew the ridiculous fondnesse oâ— this absurd notion and have met with all caâ— be said for it N. Well for all this ye cannot deny but thâ— Covenant binds these who took it C. I will ere I come to that let you see hoâ— little noise you made in the breaking it in somâ— things When then the Tyrant had murdereâ— the King enslaved this Nation antiquated thâ— Covenant discharged General Assemblies Inhibited praying any more for the King who theâ— stood up for the Covenant or clamoured aâ— you now do of Apostacy Tyranny and Perjury I know a few spoke somewhat but it was so seâ—dom so faintly and so disguisedly that it was faâ— from the thundering