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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	day_n	holy_a	word_n	13,850	5	4.2657	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02381	A dialogue betwene a knyght and a clerke concernynge the power spiritual and temporall.; Disputatio inter clericum et miletem. English.	William, of Ockham, ca. 1285-ca. 1349, attributed name.; Dubois, Pierre, fl. 1300, attributed name.; Trevisa, John, d. 1402.	1533 (1533)	STC 12511A; ESTC S109903	15,144	52

A DIALOGVE betwene a knyght and a clerke concernynge the power spiritual and temporall ¶ The clerke begynneth to speke on this wyse sayenge CLERICVS I Wounder syr noble knyghte that in fewe dayes tymes be changed ryght is buryed lawes be ouerturned and statutes be trodde vnder foote MILES Those wordes passe my capacite I am a lewde man and thoughe I wente to schoole in my chyldehode yet gotte I not so profounde lernynge that those youre wordes can of me be vnderstande And therfore worshypfull clerke if ye desyre to haue communication with me ye must vse a more homely playner fascion of spekyng CLE. I haue sene in my time that kinges princis and all other nobles haue had the churche in right great worshyp and nowe I se the contrary the churche is made a pray to you all and many thynges are challenged of vs and nothynge is gyuen vs If we gyue not oure goodes they be taken frome vs by stronge hande Our good and catalle is distroyde our lawes and fredome be not holden but dispysed and withsayde MILES I can not lyghtly beleue that the kynge of whose counsayle they of the clergic be wyl deale vniustly with you nother distroye your lawe CLERI Yea trewely agaynst all lawe we suffre innumerable wronges MILES I wolde fayne knowe what ye calle lawe CLERI I calle lawe the statutes and ordinances of bysshops of Rome decrees of holy fathers MILES What euer they ordeyn or other haue ordeyned in tyme past of temporaltie may well be lawe to you but not to vs. For no man hath power to ordeyne statutes of thynges ouer the whiche he hathe no lordeshyp As the kyng of Fraunce may ordeyne no statutes vppon the empyre nother the emperour vpon the kynge of Englande And lykewyse as Pryncis of the worlde maye ordeyne no statutes of youre spiritualtie ouer the whiche they haue no power no more ye maye ordeyne no statutes of theyr temporalties ouer the which ye haue nother power nor auctoritie Wherfore it is a thynge in vayne what euer ye ordeyn of temporal thynges ouer whiche ye haue of god resceiued no power And therfore but late I lough well faste whan I harde that Poope Boniface the .viij. had made a newe statute that he hym selfe shulde be aboue all seculer lordes princis kinges and emperours and aboue all kyngedomes make lawe vppon all thynges and that hym nedeth nought but wryte for all thynges shall be his whan he hath wryten and so all thyng shall be yours For to make a statute his statute is nought elles but to wyll that the decree be holden and kepte and ordeyne and whote that it be holden If he woll haue my castell my towne my felde my money or any other suche thynges hym nedeth nought but wyll it and write it and make a decree and whote that it be holden and whan that is done he hath ryght to al such thynges Now good clerke thou wottest well howe worthy this iape is to be scorned CLE. Syr knight ye speke sharpely slyly and wysely ynough all your talkyng and meanynge is as fer as I perceyue that the pope hath no power to ordeyne and make statutes of your temporalties For ye knowe not that he hath lordeshyp power and auctoritie vppon your temporalties Though we wolde proue it by our lawe and by decrees wryten ye accompte them for nought For ye wene that Peter had no lordeshyp ne power ouer temporalte but by suche lawe wryten But if thou wilt be a trewe christen man and of ryght beleue thou shalte not deny but that Christ is lord of al thinges To hym it was sayde in the sauter boke Aske of me I shall giue nations to thyn heritage and all the world about to thy possessiō psal 2. And also of hym it is wrytten the fyrst pistill to Timothe the .vi. chapiter that he is kynge of kynges and lorde of lordes These be not ours but goddes owne wordes nor we wrote them not but god sente them and the holy gooste spake them And who douteth whether he may ordeyne and make statutes whome he knoweth to be lorde of all thynges MILES I withsay not the maiestie lordeshyp and myght of our lorde god for he maye not be withsayde on no maner wyse But if it may be shewed by holy writte that the pope is lorde of all temporalties than kynges prncis muste nedes be subiecte to the poope as well in temporaltie as spiritualtie CLE. That may be shewed lyghtly by the auctoritees that be a lytell rather rehersed The fayth of holy churche holdeth that Peter the apostell was ordeined Christis ful vicare for hym selfe and for his successours And he that is fulle vicare may do the same that his lord may whan he is made vicar with ful power withoute any withdrawynge of power Than if ye can not deny but that Christe that is lorde of heuen and of erthe may ordeyne and make statutes of your temporalties how can ye for shame deny Christis vicare to haue the same power MILES I haue hard of holy and deuout men that we sh●ld distingue two dyuers tymes of Christe one of his humilite and an other of his power and maiestie The tyme of his humilytie was from the tyme that he toke flesshe and blode vnto his passion the tyme of his power and maiestie was and is after his Resurrection whan he said All power is yeue to me in heuen and in erthe Mat. vlt. Peter was ordeyned Christis vicare for the state of his humilite and not for the state of his blysse and maiestie but to folowe hym in doynge those thynges whiche Christe in humilite dydde here in erth for those thynges are necessary for vs. Ergo Christ commytted thylke power to his vicare whiche he as a man mortall exercysed and not that power whiche after his glorification he resceyued And for to proue this by holy wrytte I take wytnes of Christe and holy writte as thou doste Lo Christe sayde to Pilate My kyngedome is nat of this worlde Io. 18. Also he saith he came not to be serued but to serue other men Matt. 20. This wytnes is so manifeste that it maye confounde a man resiste he neuer so moche and all to frusshe his necke be it neuer so styffe And it is wrytten Luc. 12. howe one said to Christ Mayster say to my brother that he departe herytage with me To whom Christ answered and sayde Manne who hathe ordeyned me iudge or departer betwene you Lo thou hereste openly that Christ was nat iudge nor dealer ouer temporaltees Ergo in that state of dispensation taken on hym he neyther had nor desyred temporalle kyngedome But whan the people that he hadde fedde wolde haue made hym kynge he fledde from them Ion. 6. Also in Peters commission he yafe hym not the keyes of the kyngdome of erth but the keyes of the kyngedome of heuen Also it is euydent and playne that the bysshoppes of the Hebrewes were subiectes

that hath therof euery yere rent and tribute lose his rente and trybute CLE. Our cōmunication nowe is not of rent and tribute but of exactions MI. Like as I haue of some felde certayne rente so the emperour of his empire and the kynge of his kyngdome may at his owne wyll reyse skylfull tribute for the defence of the common welthe It is graunted by clere reason that the common welthe shall be defended at the costes of the commontie and what so euer parte therof enioyeth this defence it is most agreenge with ryght that he sette to his shulder and helpe to beare the burthen Than if possessions be as ryghtfully subiecte to the common charge as to the yeres rent he shall be vnder charge who so euer oweth them specially if it nedeth for the defence of the comon welthe for they nede the comon defence as al other nede If ye say nay bycause of prescription and custome that ye haue of so longe tyme vsed that lybertie We answere you In as moche longer and of olde continuaunce that your fredome and liberty is by the goodnes and liberall benignite of kynges and princis so moche the sooner ye shulde be prompte and redye with harte and mynde to pay your part and helpe forwarde where nede required For holy wrytte fordoth this prescription that ye alledge For from Salomon to Ioas and from Ioas to Ezechiell it is redde of no suche doynge as Ezechiell dydde in tyme of nede Also many cytyes that were by priuileges and custome free from payenge of exactions haue bothe paciently payde and also do pay with good wyll at this day at their princis pleasure for the defence of the realme of the commonaltie or of persons If god for vnkyndenes calleth agayne forgyuenes of synne beware lest for your rebellyon that ye deserue no lesse but also to be further charged and at the laste to be strypped from al your goodes and power CLE. Shall the kynge beryue and take awaye from vs the gracis granted vs by kynges that were his predecessours and by other noble princis And may he fordo the priuileges of blessed fathers granted to holy church MI. I deny not it is trouthe great and large priuileges be to you granted by kynges and princis Therfore ye oughte to vnderstande and knowe that what so euer the gouernours of the comon welth do they intended it all to gether for the profite of the common weale hauynge regarde speciallye thervnto accordynge to this rule They dispose all thynges in suche wyse that they preferre the common welthe before theyr owne whiche in a prince is a thynge moste gloryous wherof Dauid is example .ij. Regum Therfore it is knowē by witnes clere true and eke by very reason that they graunte nothyng by theyr writynge that shulde afterwarde be harme and domage to the common weale But if any priuilege that is graunted be founde and knowen hurtefull and greuous to the cōmon weale it maye be repelled and fordone in tyme of nede Therfore it is not to be doubted but that the hygh princis for the necessary busynes of the realme maye alter and chaunge as reason and tyme requireth the gracis and priuileges to you granted and by the lawes establysshed As we rede of the mooste wyse kynge Salomon in the peyne of thefte chaunged some what of goddes lawe CLERI The emperours and not the kynges haue establisshed tho thynges Therfore nowe syr knyghte the emperours must gyde the raynes of the lawes MI. This answer is blasphemous And eyther as it semeth ye are ignoraunte of the begynnynge of a kyngedome or els whiche is moste lykely ye enuie the hygh estate of the realme If ye well beholde the actes of greatte Charlemayne or lysted to rede the auncient approued hystories ye shall fynde that the realme of Fraunce is but a portion of the empire by a iust diuision seperated from it and was by the space of .500 yeres egall therto bothe in dignitee and auctoritie Therfore what so euer priuilege of dignite the empire holdeth in one part the same holdeth the realme of Fraunce in an other For whan by brotherne the realme of Fraunce was deuyded from the other parte of the empire what so euer lawes power or dignite the empire opteined and exercysed ouer and vppon the sayde parte thus diuided the verye selfe power fell to the frenche kynge And therfore lyke as all thynges conteyned within the boundes of the empire is well knowen to be subiecte to the empyre so lykewyse all thynges within the boundes of the realme be subiecte to the realme And lyke as the emperour may make lawes ouer al his empire and to them adde more or diminisshe as he thinketh good so maye the kynge of Fraunce eyther vtterly repelle the emperours lawes or change which of them hym lyste or els cleane exilynge and fordoynge these lawes maye at his pleasure ordeyne and make newe For whan nede shuld requyre as it ofte chaunceth to enact and ordeyne a statute if the kynge that is the chiefe coude not do it thā there is none other that canne for there is none aboue hym And therfore syr clerke refrayne your tongue and aknowlege the kynge by his royall power to be aboue your lawes customes priuileges and liberties and that he may by the aduise of his nobuls adde or diminysshe what so euer he thynke accordynge with equite and reson and therfore what so euer he changeth in those dayes for the welthe of the realme take it well in worthe and paciently suffre it For so Paule teachethe you writynge to the Romaynes the xiij chapter where he sayth Who that resisteth the hygh power resysteth the ordynaunce of god And agayne in the ende of the pistell to the Hebrewes he saythe Obeye ye to your soueraynes and humble your selfe to them Also kyng Dauid .1 Reḡ 21. vnder Abiathar the prince of the pristis in tyme of nede dyd not alonelye eate the breade called panes propositionis wherof to eate it was not lefull for any man except the priestes but also gaue the same breade to eate to them that were with hym And it is written Marke the .ij. chap. The holy day is made for man and not man for the holy day And so the lorde is the sonne of man and also is lorde of the holy day It is written in the fyrst boke of Parali the 39. chap. In thy hande is the greatnes and empire of all It sayth farther there They honored god and than the kynge And it sayth there They secondely anointed Salomon the sonne of kynge Dauid they anoynted him in our lorde to be their prince and Sadoch to be theyr bysshop And .2 Parali 23. it saythe Nor none other shulde entre in to the house of our lorde but priestes and suche of the deacons as ministred they all onely shulde entre in bycause they be halowed and all the residue of the common people shulde kepe the watche of our lorde The deacons inuironned the kynge aboute euery man hauynge his armour And if any other entred in to the temple of the lord he was slayn They shulde attende vpon the kynge bothe whan he entred in and whan he wente out Also Ioada the bysshoppe anoynted hym and his children prayde for hym and sayd God saue the kynge CLE. It draweth faste towarde nyght to morowe mornyng I wyll answere you to euery thynge FINIS ¶ Imprinted at London in Fletestrete in the house of Thomas Berthelet nere to the cundite at the sygne of Lucrece CVM PRIVILEGIO Psal. 2. 1. Tim· 2. Apoc. 17. 19. Mat. vlt. Heb. 5. Psal. 2. 1. Tim· 2. Apoc. 17. 19 ▪ Abac. 1. Tit. 3. Ro. 13. Luc. 12. 1. Cor. 9. Mat. 10. Luc. 10. 1. Tim. 5. 1. Cor. 9. Deut. 15. Heb. 5. 1. Tim. 6.

sikerly to slepe than it semethe that ye wolde meane that onely ye be verye lordes and kynges and princis be of bonde condicion and vnto you seruantes and thralles If reste be graunted to men of the churche it is no great thynge if the ryches be reserued for vs of the lay fee. This is an harde thynge saye ye but ye wyll not reste tylle ye be as ye are wont conuicted and also confoūded by holy scripture ageinst the whiche ye can not resiste For of Ioas the kynge of whome we spake before hit is wrytten in the. 4. boke of kynges the .12 chaptre and in the seconde booke of Parali the .24 chapyter thus Wherfore Ioas the kynge of Iuda tooke all that was halowed the which thinges Ioram Ochozias his fathers kynges of Iuda had halowed and whiche thynges he hym selfe hadde offered vppe and all the syluer that he coude fynde in the treasaurye of the lorde and Palaice of the kynge and sente it to Azael the kynge of Syrie and he departed from Ierusalem Lo here thou mayst plainly see that for to paye the peoples raunsomme he toke those thynges oute of the temple not withstandynge he spared not the kynges palayce whan he toke those thynges out of the temple ¶ Also in the .4 boke of kynges cap. 18. it is thus redde of the holy kynge Ezechias The same season Ezechias braake the gates of the temple of the lorde and toke the plates of golde that he hym selfe had there stycked vppe and gaue them to the kynge of Assiriens ¶ And if thou woldest saye that Ezechias dyd amysse I aunswere as it is sayde secundo Paralipo cap. 32. Ezechias is not blamed for any of all his workes that he dyd but onely for the message of the princis of Babylon Thanne who shall dampne hym the whiche holye wrytte preysethe in all his dedes If he erre not vnderstandynge the sothenesse and the veritie of holye wrytte wherfore than stryue you agaynste kynges and princis It is red secundo Machab. quinto Godde chose not the people for the place but the place for the people Therfore the churche of lyme and stone shuld not be spared whan the chrysten people be in perylle The which thynge the holy kynge Ezechiel and Ioseph vnderstode and truly dyd fulfyll If your goodes be holy churches goodes and the people is a great parte of holy church shal not than holy churches goodes skylfully be spended for the succour and saufegarde of the people And so it foloweth that it longethe to the ghostlyche of holy churche And our lorde saythe Matthei duodesimo I tell you this is more than the temple For it is no doubt the ghostly temple that is mankynde is more worth than the temple that is made of lyme and stone Therfore a mylde and a prudente kynge mote by these wordes knowe the wylle of all myghty god and hym nedeth not to seke auctorite of other Nor the temple of lyme and stone nor the thynges dedicated therin shulde not be spared to wyn peace and saufegarde to the people that is in perill Nor we shuld not smyle after a flaterynge facion at the superfluite of the churche but se that the great multitude of christen people be holpe and succoured in theyr nede And though the kynge dealeth gratiouslye with you and goodly gouerneth you alway yet ye be not ashamed to withsay hym in that that he may laufully do by the lawe of god almyghty and wyll not with your good wyll therto assent But take hede and beware by the wordes of Salomon The kynges wrathe is the messanger of deathe CLE. If those thynges that are ones gyuen to god may be withdrawen taken away agayne than all vowes may be made voyde fordone MI. That that I haue sayd is not to withdrawe and take away gyftes that are gyuen to allmyghty god but to tourne and apply those gyftes to suche vse for the whiche they were fyrste gyuen For those gyftes that are gyuen to god the very same gyftes are dedicated to holy and charitable vses And what thynge can be more holy thanne the sauation of christen people And what is more precious vnto oure lorde thanne to defende and sauely kepe the christen people from the inuasiō of theyr ennemies theues murtherers to bye peace to the true and faythfull subiectes Therfore whan the goodes of the churche be spent on this wyse than are they bestowed to suche vse for the whiche they were fyrst dedicate and gyuen CLERI If ye take you to holy wryt why do ye withsaye and breake our priuileges and fredomes whiche lybertyes we haue by holy wrytte For our lorde Matt. 17. sayde vnto Peter Howe semeth hit vnto the Symon The kynges of the erthe of whome take they trybute of theyr owne sonnes or elles of other of other sayde Peter Iesus sayde to hym Than are the sonnes free But leste we offende them goo vnto the see and caste in a fysshe hooke and the fyrste fysshe that commeth vppe open his mouthe and thou shalte fynde a stater take that and gyue it for me and for the. Ye se sir knight that the clergie bonde to the seruice of god is free in all poyntes MI. If ye well consider and vnderstande the gospell aryght ye may se that the tribute or dragme was demaunded onely of Christe And onelye for Christe this answere semeth to be gyuen For he is the verye sonne of god the sonne of the greatte myghty kynge And as the kynges sonne is greatter than the bysshop so is goddes sonne greatter than the emperour And so that aunswere was gyuen for Christe and not for you Neuer the lesse bycause they that chieffely serue the kynge in his presence shulde not be put to cōmon and greuous charges so we grant that clerkes in theyr owne persones be free but not they that leade theyr lyfes as lewde men and not as clerkes to the worshyppe but to the gyle and fraude of oure lorde as hit is all day sene But clerkes that folowe Christe as pristes that serue at the aulter and that are fully gyuen and occupied in the seruyce of god we graunt that those be free I saye not clerely by the gospelle but by cause in theyr soo doynge hit discordethe not from the gospelle that fredome is gyuen them by priuileges of princis For sith the begynnyng of the churche Paule ad Ro. 13. sayth Euery soule be subiect to the higher powers not onely sayth he after for wrathe but also for conscience And after folowynge he sayth yelde and paye to all men that is due to them to whome tribute is due pay tribute to whome custome is due paye custome Than ye se that euery soule muste be subiecte beare tribute and pay custome But as I haue sayd ye be nowe free in your owne person by priuileges of princis but shal your feldes haue now the same freedome If holy churche bye a felde that is able to be tylled shall he