Not Guilty He has divided the Duty of Man into three great Branches His Duty to God to Himself and to his Neighbour In his Duty to God he puts the acknowledgment of him in his Essence and his Attributes and in believing of his Word his Attributes are Omnipotence Omniscience Infiniteness Justice Truth Mercy and all the rest that are found in Scripture Which of these did not those Seditious Preachers acknowledge equally with the best of Christians The Word of God are the Books of holy Scripture received for Can nical in England B. They receive the World of God but 't is according to their own interpretation A. According to whose interpretation was it received by the Bishops and the rest of the Loyal Party but their own He puts for another Duty Obedience and Submission to God's Will Did any of them nay did any man living do any thing at any time against God's Will B. By God's Will I suppose he means there his revealed Will that is to say his Commandments which I am sure they did most horribly break both by their Preaching and otherwise A. As for their Actions there is no doubt but all men are guilty enough if God deal severely with them to be damned and for their Preaching they will say they thought it agreeable to God's revealed Will in the Scriptures if they thought if so it was not disobedience but error and how can any man prove they thought otherwise B. Hypocrisie hath this great prerogative above other sins that it cannot be accused A. Another Duty he sets down is to honour him in his House that is the Church in his Possessions in his Day in his Word and Sacraments B. They perform this Duty I think as well as any other Ministers I mean the Loyal Party and the Presbyterians have always had an equal care to have God's House free from prophanation to have Tithes duly paid to have the Sabbath day kept holy the Word preached and the Lord's Supper and Baptism duly administred But it is not the keeping of the Feasts and of the Fasts one of those Duties that belong to the Honour of God if it be the Presbyterians fail in that A. Why so they kept some Holidays and they had Feasts among themselves though not upon the same Days that the Church ordains but when they thought fit as when it pleased God to give the King any notable Victory and they govern'd themselves in this point by the holy Scriptures as they pretend to be and can prove they did not believe so B. Let us pass over all other Duties and come to that Duty which we owe to the King and consider whether the Doctrine taught by these Divines which adhered to the King be such in that point as may justifie the Presbyterians that incited the People to Rebellion for that 's the thing you call in question A. Concerning our Duty to our Rulers he hath these words An obedience we must pay either Active or Passive the Active in the case of all Lawful Commands that is when ever the Magistrate commands something which is not contrary to some command of God we are then bound to act according to that command of the Magistrate to do the thing he requires but when he enjoyns any thing contrary to what God hath commanded we are not then to pay him this Active obedience we may nay we must refuse thus to act yet here we must be very well assur'd that the thing is so contrary and not pretend Conscience for a cloak of stubbornness we are in that case to obey God rather than men But even this is a season for the Passive obedience we must patiently suffer what he inflicts on us for such refusal and not to secure our selves rise up against him B. What is there in this to give colour to the late Rebellion A. They will say they did it in obedience to God inasmuch as they did believe it was according to the Scripture out of which they will bring perhaps examples of David and his Adherents that resisted King Saul and of the Prophets afterwards that vehemently from time to time preached against the Idolatrous Kings of Israel and Judah Saul was their Lawful King and yet they paid him neither Active nor Passive obedience for they did put themselves into a posture of defence against him though David himself spared his person and so did the Presbyterians put into their Commission to their General that they should spare the King's Person Besides you cannot doubt but that they who in the Pulpit did animate the People to take Arms in defence of the then Parliament alledged Scripture that is the Word of God for it If it be lawful then for Subjects to resist the King when he commands any thing against the Scripture that is contrary to the command of God and to be Judge of the meaning of the Scripture it is impossible that the life of any King or the peace of any Christian Kingdom can be long secure It is this Doctrine that Divides a Kingdom within it self whatsoever the men be Loyal or Rebels that Write or Preach it publickly And thus you see that if those seditious Ministers be tried by this Doctrine they will come off well enough B. I see it and wonder at People that having never spoken with God Almighty nor knowing one more than another what he hath said when the Laws and the Preacher disagree should so keenly follow the Minister for the most part an ignorant though a ready tongu'd Scholar rather than the Laws that were made by the King with the consent of the Peers and the Commons of the Land A. Let us examine his words a little nearer first concerning Passive obedience When a Thief hath broken the Laws and according to the Law is therefore executed can any man understand that this suffering of his is an obedience to the Law Every Law is a Command to do or to forbear neither of these is fulfilled by suffering If any suffering can be called obedience it must be such as is voluntary for no voluntary action can be counted a submission to the Law He that means that his suffering should be taken for obedience must not onely not resist but also flie nor hide himself to avoid his punishment And who is there among them that discourses of Passive obedience when his life is in extreme danger that will voluntarily present himself to the Officers of Justice Do not we see that all men when they are led to Execution are both bound and guarded and would break loose if they could and get away such is their Passive obedience Christ saith The Scribes and Pharisees sate in Moses's chair all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe that observe and do Matth. 23.3 which is a doing an an Active obedience and yet the Scribes and Pharisees appear not by the Scriptures to have been such godly men as never to command any thing against the revealed will of God
them but the weight they had to aggravate their accusation to the Ignorant multitudes which think all faults hainous that are exprest in hainous terms If they hate the reason accused as they did this man not only for being of the Kings party but also for deserting the Parliaments party as an Apostate B. I pray you tell me also what they meant by Arbitrary Government which they seemed so much to hate Is there any Governour of a people in the World that is forced to Govern them or forced to make this and that Law whether he will or no! I think or if any be that forces him does certainly make Laws and Govern Arbitrarily A. That is true and the true meaning of the Parliament was that not the King but they themselves should have the Arbitrary Government not only of England but of Ireland and as it appeared by the event of Scotland also B. How the King came by the Government of Scotland and Ireland by descent of his Ancestors every body can â—ell but if the King of England and his Heirs should chance which God forbid to fail I cannot imagine what Title the Parliament of England can acquire thereby to either of those Nations A. Yet they say they have been conquer'd antiently by the English Subjects Money B. Like enough and suitable to the rew of their imdence A. Impudence in Democratical Assemblies does almost all that is done 't is the Goddess of Rhetorick and carries on proof with it for though ordinary men will not from so great boldness of affirmation conclude there is great boldness of affirmation conclude there is a great probability in the King affirmed upon this accusation He was brought to his Trial at Westminster-hall before the House of Lords and found Guilty and presently after declared a Traitor by a Bill of Attainder that is by Act of Parliament B. It is a strange thing that the Lords should be induced upon so light grounds to give a sentence or give their assent to a Bill so prejudicial to themselves and their posterity A. 'T was not well done and yet as it seems not ignorantly for there is a clause in the Bill that it should not be taken hereafter for an example that is for a prejudice in the like case hereafter B. That is worse than the Bill it self and is a plain confession that their Sentence was unjust for what harâ—â— is their in the example of just Sentences Besides if hereafter the like case should happen the Sentence is not at all made weaker by such a provision A. Indeed I believe that the Lords most of them were not-willing to condemn him of Treason they were awed to it by the clamor of the common people that came to Westminster crying out Justice Justice against the Earl of Strafford the which were caused to flock together by some of the House of Commons that were well assured after the Triumphant Welcome of Prinne Burton and Bastwick to put the People into Tumult upon any occasion they desired They were awed unto it partly also by the House of Commons it self which if it desired to undo a Lord had no more to do but to Vote him a Delinquent A. A Delinquent what 's that A sinner is 't not Did they mean to undo all sinners A. By Delinquent they meant onely a man to whom they would do all the hurt they could but the Lords did not yet I think suspect they meant to casheer their whole House B. It 's a strange thing the whole House should not perceive the ruine of the King's power or weakening of themselves for they could not think it likely that they everâ— meant to take the Sovereignty from the King to give it to them who were few in number and less in power than so many Commoners because less beloved by the People A. But it seems not so strange to me for the Lords for their personal abilities as they were no less so also were they no more skilful in the Publick affairs than the Knights and Burgesses for there is no reason to think that if one that is to day a Knight of the Shire in the Lower House be to morrow made a Lord and a Member of the Higher House is therefore wiser than he was before they are all of both Houses prudent and able men as any in the Land in the business of their private Estates which requires nothing but diligence and a Natural Wit to govern them but for the Government of a Common-wealth neither Wit nor Prudence nor Diligence is enough without infallible Rules and the true Science of Equity and Justice B. If this be true it is impossible any Common-wealth in the World whether Monarchy Aristocracy or Democracy should continue long without change or sedition tending to change either of the Government or of the Governours A. 'T is true nor have any the greatest Common-wealths in the World been long from Sedition the Greeks had it first their Petty Kings and then by Sedition came to be Petty Common-wealths and then growing to be greater Common-wealths by Sedition again became Monarchies and all for want of Rules of Justice for the common People to take notice of which if the People had known in the beginning of every of these Seditions the ambitious persons could never have had the hope to disturb their Government after it had been once setled for ambition can do little without hands and few hands it could have if the common People were as diligently instructed in the true Principles of their Duty as they are terrifi'd and amazed by Preachers with fruitless and dangerous Doctrines concerning the nature of Man's Will and many other Philosophical Points that tend not at all to the salvation of the Soul in the World to come nor to their ease in this life but onely to the discretion towards the Clergy of that Duty which they ought to perform to the King B. For ought I see all the States of Christendom will be subject to those fits of Rebellion as long as the World lasteth A. Like enough and yet the fault as I have said may be easily mended by mending the Universities B. How long had the Parliament now sitten A. It began Novemb. 3. 1640. My Lord of Strafford was Impeached of Treason before the Lords November 12 sent to the Tower November 22 his Trial began March 22 and ended April 13. After his Trial he was voted guilty of High Treason in the House of Commons and after that in the House of Lords May 6 and on the 12 of May beheaded B. Great Expedition But could not the King for all that have saved him by a Pardon A. The King had heard all that passed at his Trial and had declared he was unsatisfied concerning the Justice of their Sentence and I think notwithstanding the danger of his own Person from the fury of the People and that he was counselled to give way to his Execution not-only by such as he most relied
they desired the whole and absolute soveraignty and to change the Monarchical Government into an Oligarchie that is to say to make the Parliament consisting of a few Lords and about 400 Commoners absolute in the soveraignty for the present and shortly after to lay the House of Lords aside for this was the Design of the Presbyterian Ministers who taking themselves to be by right the onely Lawful Government of the Church endeavoured to bring the same Form of Government into the Civil state and as the Spiritual Laws were to be made by their Synods so their Civil Laws should be made by the House of Commons who as they thought would no less be ruled by them afterwards than formerly they had been wherein they were deceived and found themselves out-gon by their own Disciples though not in Malice yet in Wit B. What followed after this A. In August following the King supposing he had now sufficiently obliged the Parliament to proceed no farther against him took a Journey into Scotland to satisfie his Subjects there as he had done here intending perhaps so to gain their good wills that in case the Parliament here should levy Arms against him they should not be aided by the Scots wherein he also was deceived for though they seemed satisfied with what he did whereof one thing was his giving away to the Aboletion of Episcopacy Yet afterwards they made a League with the Parliament and for Money when the King began to have the better of the Parliament invaded England in the Parliaments Quarrel but this was a Year or two after B. Before you go any farther I desire to know the Ground and Original of that Right which either the House of Lords or House of Commons or both together pretend to A. It is a question of things so long past that they are now forgotten nor have we any thing to conjecture by but the Records of our own Nation and some small and obscure fragments of Roman Histories And for the Records seeing they are of things only done sometimes justly sometimes unjustly you can never by them know what Right they had but only what Right they pretended B. Howsoever let me know what light we have in this matter from the Roman Histories A. It would be too long and an useless digression to â—â—â—all the Antient Authors that speak of the forms of those Common-wealths which were amongst our first Ancestors the Saxons and other Germans and of other Nations from whom we derive the Titles of Honour now in use in England nor will it be possible to derive from them any Arguments of Right but only Examples of fact which by the Ambition of Potent Subjects have been oftener unjust than otherwise and for those Saxons or Angles that in Antient times by several Invasions made themselves Masters of this Nation they were not in themselves one Body of Common-wealth but only a League of divers Petty German Lords and States such as was the Graecian Army in the Trojan War without other Obligations than that which proceeded from their own fear and weakness nor were these Lords for the most part the Soveraigns at home in their own Country but chosen by the people for the Captains of the Forces they brought with them And therefore it was not without Equity that when they had conquer'd any part of the Land and made some one of them King thereof the rest should have greater Priviledges than the common People and Soldiers amongst which Priviledges a man may easily conjecture this to be one that they should be made acquainted and be of Council with him that hath the Soveraignty in matters of Government and have the greatest and most honourable Offices both in Peace and War But because there can be no Government where there is more than one Soveraign it cannot be inferr'd that he had a Right to oppose the King's Resolutions by force nor to enjoy those honours and places longer than they should continue good Subjects And we find that the Kings of England did upon every great occasion call them together by the name of Discreet and Wise men of the Kingdom and hear their Councils and make them Judges of all Causes that during their Sitting were brought before them But as he summon'd them at his own pleasure so had he also ever at his pleasure power to Dissolve them The Normans also that descended from the Germans as we did had the same Customs in this particular and by this means this Priviledge have the Lords to be of your King 's great Council and when they were assembled to be the highest of the King's Court of Justice continued still after the Conquest to this day But though there be amongst the Lords divers Names or Titles of Honour yet they have their Priviledge by the only name of Baron a name receiv'd from the Antient Gauls amongst whom that name signified the King's man or rather one of his great men By which it seems to me that though they gave him Council when he requir'd it yet they had no Right to make War upon him if he did not follow it B. When began first the House of Commons to be part oâ— the King 's great Council A. I do not doubt but that before the Conquest some discreet men and known to be so by the King were called by special Writ to be of the same Council though they were not Lords But that is nothing to the House of Commons the Knights of â—lares and Burgesses were never called to Parliament for ought that I know till the beginning of Edward the first or the latter end of the Reign 〈◊〉 Henry the third immediately after the mis-behaviour of the Barons and for ought any man knows were called on purpose to weaken that Power of the Lords which they had so freshly abused Before the time of Henry the third the Lords were deâ—â—oâ—â—ed most of them from such as in the Invasions and Conquests of the Germans were Peers and â—ellow-Kings 'till one was made King of them â—â—ll and their Tenants were their Subjects as it is at this day with the Lords of France But after the time of Henry the third the Kings began to make Lords in the place of them whose Issue fail'd Titularly only without the Lands belonging to their Title and by that means their Tenants being bound no longer to Terve them in the Wars they grew every day less and less able to make a Party against the King though they continued still to be his great Council And as their Power decreased To the Power of the House of Commons increased But I do not find that they were part of the King's Council at all nor Judges over other men though it cannot be denied but a King may ask their advice as well as the advice of any other But I do not find that the end of their summoning was to give advice but only in case they had any Petitions for Redress of Grievances to be ready there
is their private gain are naturally mortal Enemies their only glory being to grow excessively rich by the wisdom of buying and selling B. But they are said to be of all Callings the most beneficial to the Commonwealth by setting the poorer sort of people on work A. That is to say by making poor people sell their Labour to them at their own prizes so that poor people for the most part might get a better Living by working in Bridewell than by spinning weaving and other such labour as they can do saving that by working slightly they may help themselves a little to the disgrace of our Manufacture And as most commonly they are the first Encouragers of Rebellion presuming in their strength so also are they for the most part the first that repent deceiv'd by them that command their strength But to return to the War Though the King withdrew from Glocester yet it was not to fly from but to fight with the Earl of Essex which presently after he did at Newbery where the Battel was bloody and the King had not the worst unless Cirencester be put into the Scale which the Earl of Essex had in his way a few days before surpriz'd But in the North and the West the King had much the better of the Parliament for in the North at the beginning of the year May 29. the Earls of Newcastle and Cumberland defeated the Lord Fairfax who commanded in those parts for the Parliament at Bramham-moor which made the Parliament to hasten the assistance of the Scots In June following the Earl of Newcastle routed Sir Thomas Fairfax Son to the Lord Fairfax upon Adderton-heath and in pursuit of them to Bradford took and kill'd 2000 Men and the next day took the Town and 2000 Prisoners more Sir Thomas himself hardly escaping with all their Arms and Ammunition and besides this made the Lord Fairfax quit Hallifax and Beverley Lastly Prince Rupert reliev'd Newark besieg'd by Sir John Meldrum for the Parliament with 7000 men whereof 1000 were slain the rest upon Articles departed leaving behind them their Arms Bag and Baggage To ballance in part this success the Earl of Manchester whose Lieutenant General was Oliver Cromwel got a Victory over the Royalists near Horn-Castle of which he slew 400 took 800 Prisoners and 1000 Arms and presently after took and plunder'd the City of Lincoln In the West May 16. Sir Ralph Hopton at Stratton in Devonshire had a Victory over the Parliamentarians wherein he took 1700 Prisoners 13 Brass Peeces of Ordnance and all their Ammunition which was 70 Barrels of Powder and their Magazine of their other Provisions in the Town Again at Landsdown between Sir Ralph Hopton and the Parliamentarians under Sir William Waller was fought a fierce Battel wherein the Victory was not very clear on either side saving that the Parliamentarians might seem to have the better because presently after Sir William Waller follow'd Sir Ralph Hopton to the Devizes in Wiltshire though to his cost for there he was overthrown as I have already told you After this the King in Person marched into the West and took Exeter Dorchester Barnstable and divers other places and had he not at his Return besieged Glocester and thereby giving the Parliament time for new Levies 't was thought by many he might have routed the House of Commons But the end of this year was more favourable to the Parliament for in January the Scots entered England and March the first crossed the Tyne and whil'st the Earl of Newcastle was marching to them Sir Thomas Fairfax gathered together a considerable Party in Yorkscire and the Earl of Manchester from Lyn advanced towards York so that the Earl of Newcastle having two Armies of Rebels behind him and another before him was forced to retreat to York which those three Armies joyning presently besieged and these are all the considerable Military Actions in the year 1643. In the same year the Parliament caused to be made a new great Seal the Lord Keeper had carried the former Seal to Oxford Hereupon the King sent a Messenger to the Judges at Westminster to forbid them to make use of it this Messenger was taken and condemned at a Council of War and Hang'd for a Spy B. Is that the Law of War A. I know not But it seems when a Soldier comes into the Enemies Quarters without address or notice given to the chief Commander that it is presum'd he comes as a Spy The same year when certain Gentlemen at London received a Commission of Array from the King to Levy Men for his Service in that City being discover'd they were Condemn'd and some of them Executed This Case is not unlike the former B. Was not the making of a new great Seal a sufficient proof that the War was raised not to remove evil Counsellors from the King but to remove the King himself from the Government what hope then could there be had in Messages and Treaties A. The Entrance of the Scots was a thing unexpected to the King who was made to believe by continual Letters from His Commissioners in Scotland and Duke Hamilton that the Scots never intended any Invasion The Duke being then at Oxford the King assur'd that the Scots were now entered sent him Prisoner to Pendennis Castle in Cornwal In the beginning of the year 1644. the Earl of Newcastle being as I told you besieged by the joint Forces of the Scots the Earl of Manchester and Sir Thomas Fairfax the King sent Prince Rupert to relieve the Town and as soon as he could to give the Enemy Battle Prince Rupert passing through Lancashire and by the way having storm'd the seditious Town of Bolton and taken in Stock ford and Leverpool came to York July 1. and relieved it the Enemy being risen thence to a place called Marston-moor about four miles off and there was fought that unfortunate Battel that lost the King in a manner all the North Prince Rupert return'd by the way he came and the Earl of Newcastle to York and thence with some of His Officers over the Sea to Hamburgh The Honour of this Victory was attributed chiefly to Oliver Cromwel the Earl of Manchester's Lieutenant General the Parliamentarians return'd from the Field to the Siege of York which not long after upon honourable Articles was surrendred not that they were favoured but because the Parliament could not employ much time nor many men in the Siege B. This was a great and sudden abatement of the King's prosperity A. It was so but amends was made him for it within 5 or 6 weeks after for Sir William Waller after the loss of his Army at Roundway-down had another raised for him by the City of London who for the payment thereof imposed a weekly Tax of the value of one Meals meat upon every Citizen This Army with that of the Earl of Essex intended to besiege Oxford which the King understanding sent the Queen into the West and marched himself