wee must relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and her Pastors There be moe Pastors in the Church then the Pope though he be granted first he is not all There be moe Churches then his Church what hath Pope Vrban one man to doe with Pastors with the Church but that which wee know well enough by Pastors and Church in conclusion you meane the Pope I could interpret Saint Anselme well enough as that if a Controuersie were referred by the Church or an Heresie to be corrected in the Church which touched the case of the Catholicke Church it could not be put ouer more fitly to any one man by the Church representatiue in a Councel then vnto the Pope first Bishop of Christendome of greatest not absolute power amongst Bishops But I know your Saint Anselme well enough This was not his meaning he was partiall post natus not fit to speake in this cause nor amongst the Fathers A great Bishop I grant him He was Archbishop of Canterbury no great Doctor but respectiuely considering the barbarous times in which hee liued farre from being one of the ancient Fathers or their grand-child He liued in the dayes of King Henry the first and was a factionist for Pope Vrban his good Lord and Master So aske my fellow if I be a thiefe your bottle-ale Hostesse where you vse it seemeth to meete in Partridge alley with your gossips is well enough acquainted with these passages and can tell you as much as Saint Anselme could if an Heretick aske her who is Supreame ale-canner on Earth shee will answer no doubt why who but his holinesse In this case I beleeue them both alike as good reason for one as for other Sure yours are no better then those Corkes with which your Hostesse vseth to stop her bottles but agree as you can you and your Hostesse we proceede to the next Proposition III. That Apostolicall traditions and ancient customes of the holy Catholique Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs THis is also contrary to the expresse words of our owne Bibles How wherefore we shal see when we can In the interim thus wee draw on Traditions are of two Sorts in the writings of Antiquity as the word is ambiguous of two significations There are Traditions writteÌ„ improperly so called and there are Traditions vnwritten deliuered from hand to hand The name is sometime applyed to the one and sometime attributed to the other you meane not here Traditions written I know it no more doe we we agree to take it of vnwritten Traditions in opposition vnto Scripture as where Tertullian speaketh in his Book de coronâ militis thus Scripturam nullam invenies Traditio tibi praetenditur euictrix Scripture for this you can finde none the originall came from Tradition Traditions are considered Originally in their Authors Christ the Apostles the Church priuatemen which haue their authority more or lesse answerable to the worth of their Originals Againe they are considered materially in regard of what they treat of what they containe whereof they are of Orders Rights practices opinions in common vse and custome amongst men Traditions instituted by our Sauiour euen in points of beliefe Faith haue Diuine authority as his written word hath Traditions deriued from the Apostles haue equall authority with their Preachings and their writings I approue that processe of the Controuersor The authority of Gods Word is not because it is written but because it commeth from God Traditions of the Church haue such authority as the Church hath all binde and oblige as they were intended and as their extent is For they must be considered not onely from the Author but from the End Some were intended to be Permanent others onely to be transient for a Time onely or else for euer Some vniuersall some onely Partiall for the Catholique or else a priuate Church Such variety and difference is in Traditions which this Hudler confoundeth to deceiue his Nouice with indistinctions Now the question is not whether there be Traditions or haue beene heretofore we doe grant it in euery kinde that either there are or haue beene Traditions of Christ his Apostles the Church priuate men The question is not of what authority they are we grant their authority is from and as the Authors but the question is of their Credit and Extent First whether the pretended Traditions of Christ and his Apostles were indeed so ordained or deriued as they are pretended or rather counterseits and suppositions Proue them true vndoubted and we rise vp vnto them Secondly to what ends they were instituted whether to last and indure euer or for a time whether to supply the defects of Scripture not else sufficient for the end This we denye for it is our Position that the written Word of God without vnwritten Traditions is perfect and absolute and sufficient for the end whereto it was intended To make the man of God absolute in euery good worke Abuse not your selues nor your Proselites here slander not nor belye vs giue vs any Tradition of Christ or his Apostles giue vs good euidence for what you say goe proue it conuincingly to haue come from them by Scripture Fathers consent of Antiquity can you aske any more and we receiue it with both our armes as Gods holy Word and Institution Quae vniuersa tenet Ecclesia ab Apostolis praecepta benè traduntur quanquam scripta non reperiantur Though I finde it not vpon record in Scripture yet I receiue it as proceeding from the Apostles if the vniuersall Church imbrace it said Saint Augustine and I subscribe vnto it bring vs any such Tradition so accepted so receiued so commended and you shall see wee will reuerence it as much as you or more but if you giue me copper in stead of gold pardon me if I beleeue you not nor receiue it for pay Ecclesiasticall constitutions are moe more certaine of the same authority with the Churches written Lawes which binde generally if made for generall obligation or else particularly if they haue but locall and confined limitation omni modo bind they doe vnto obedience so long in such sort so farre forth as the authors did intend till the same authority disaâ—ow them which gaue vnto them being at the first In the 34. Article to this purpose wee reade of and concerning Ecclesiasticall Traditions It is not necessary that Traditions and ceremonies be in all places one or vtterly like for that at all times they haue beene diuers and may be changed according to diuersities of Countries times and mens manners So that nothing be ordained against Gods word Your Catholique cares be they round or long cannot be offended with this position I thinke Whosoeuer through his priuate iudgement willingly and purposely doth openly breake the Traditions and ceremonies of the Church which be not repugnant vnto the word of God and be ordained and approued by common authoritie ought to be rebuked openly that others may
recouered after his fall and perseuered vnto the end Our Sauiour said not to him thou shalt not deny mee but That thy faith fayle not and that his faith did not eternally fayle it was out of his speciall fauour vnto him and care of him saith Chrysostome hom 83. in Math. This is the prime true and literall meaning of the Text euen in the opinion of your owne Partiaries that Christs prayer was personall for Saint Peter restrained vnto Saint Peter alone which being so first setled and acknowledged Peter may be said in a secondary sense to sustaine the person of the whole Catholique Church in which sense many and they no Protestants doe vnderstand it And so his Faith that is the Faith of the Church fayled not either totally or finally no not in the greatest eclipse that euer was because Christ was euer heard in that which he prayed for and he prayed for the Church The refiners of Popery the quintessense of villany the Iesuites haue inuented a third sense to fit the purpose more than the former This promise was made say they to Peter not personally but as Pope And therein was inferred thereby assurance made that the Pope neuer did neuer should neuer could maintaine decide hold belieue any thing against Faith A thing not heard of but out of such mouthes a late dayes False in euent for their faith hath failed totally finally vtterly for euer False according to themselues and their other resolutions For Peter was not Bishop much lesse Pope when our Sauiour Christ prayed for him insomuch as by inchoation when hee denied Christ saith Bellarmine And good reason for his saying so lest his successours might fall into the same predicament His principality in and ouer the Church was not inuested in him vntill after our Sauiours Resurrection Thus hee de Rom. Pontif. 4. 8. therefore hee did not pray for him as Pope Therefore Bellarmine contradicteth himselfe and is contrary to his companions Therefore this prater gagleth hee knoweth not what against his owne rules and against his Masters As also out of Matth. 16. 18. The gates of Hell shall not preuaile against it It What Saint Peters Faith Was the Church therefore built vpon Saint Peters Faith Take heede of that It is the Church not his Faith nor his Person nor his Papacy But let it for once be his Faith I answere there is a twofold preuayling against First to ouercome So Iosua in fight preuayled against Amalec by the signe of the Crosse rather than the sword Secondly a preuayling against to destroy So did Saul preuaile against the same Amalec The Gates of Hell did not preuayle against Peters Faith to vndoe it For being lapsed hee recouered and mightily preuayled against them They did preuaile against it to ouercome him For he forswore and denyed his Master The Faith of Marcellinus and Liberius fayled but they recouered as Saint Peter did The Faith of Honorius and Iohn 12 fayled happely hee recanted before his death and so his Faith did not fayle finally But Iohn 12. liued and dyed in his Faith that is in his Sinne and so Body and Soule went to the Diuell Saint Peters Faith fayled onely for a time Of this speake the Protestants His Faith fayled Saint Peters faith did not finally or irrecouerably fall Thus intended our Sauiour in that saying I haue prayed that thy Faith fayle not But Sir it mattereth not much what became of his Faith His Person is the thing to be stood vpon his Power Principality Papall Prerogatiues seated therein this I trow is so cleare in holy Scriptures no great neede to fortifie it by or from the Fathers and yet I maruaile why if so cleare there wee haue so few Texts of holy Scriptures for it onely two Texts nay scarcely that For one of these is cleare for another thing And againe whatsoeuer you vaunt of Fathers needelesse to be brought it is more than presumption you had not one Father to fling at this Faith not fayling For when you haue them you spare them not IX That a Woman may be supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all Causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was QVeene Elizabeth was With lye and all No Protestant euer saide so of Queene Elizabeth No Protestant euer thought so of any Woman You shamelesse pennes and brazen faces You haue often vouched Caluin against such Gouernement whom you make the Patriarch fondly of our Profession and yet you impute it to our Doctrine Lyers in this or in that needes Can you of your knowledge say this title was giuen vnto Queene Elizabeth Did shee euer practise it actually or challenge it habituall to her Person or her State And if it had beene challenged or giuen in Her time seeing that it is not at present but disclaimed by him that best may and seeing it dyed if yet it euer liued together with her what meaneth this quarreller to stirre vp a new allayed strife and trouble things setled and well disposed of The truth is Queene Elizabeths stile was no other then than King Iames is now mutatis mutandis Ouer all persons in all Causes not and all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Ciuil in these her Maiesties Realmes and Dominions next vnder God supreame Gouernour Can your small vnderstanding put no difference betwixt Ouer all and In all betwixt Persons and Causes ouer all Persons in all Causes is one thing Ouer all Persons and all Causes is farre another thing Ouer Each or ouer Causes without Persons looketh your way But Causes with Persons ouer the Parties in their proceedings is no such exorbitances no Scripture expresse none inferred against it to any purpose We doe not professe much lesse propose or propugne that Princes are Heads or Gouernours to any such intent as to coyne or set abroad new Formes of Faith to determine what is defide what not as your side belyeth vs and beareth your Proselites in hand we doe Wee giue no such authority to any humane Power They were of you that did it at Trent that cast it vpon your Lord God the Pope He was one of you none of our side Stephen Gardner by name who to flatter the Prince in state and keepe himselfe in those hurring times in his fauour openly auouched as Cardinal Poole relateth That the King might take away the Cup from the Laity Potestas enim summe est penes regem For the King hath supreamest Power Such aphorismes neuer came out of our mouthes We say Princes haue supreame Power in Earth vnder God ouer all Persons in all Causes whatsouer within their Dominions euen in Causes meerely Ecclesiasticall to compell them to doe their duties by the Ciuil Sword Not ouer all Causes to doe as they will to command or change beliefe or Faith Will it rellish better with you in Saint Augustines words Then this is our profession in his words Kings serue God as Kings if in their owne Realmes they command good things not alone which concerne the
so C. W. B. quoted them vnto your hand all that you could doe was to part him from the Fellowship and bring him in alone in this particular And yet he hath nothing for supererogation His plea is for possibility to keepe the Law of which in due place Now keeping of the Law reflecteth vpon Precept Precepts and Counsels in your owne Learning by your owne Confession are two distinct seuerals Your prooses out of Scripture were all for Counsels not Precepts and now Saint Chrysostome is summoned to speake for Precepts the possibility of keeping them So What would this man haue what would he say who floateth betwixt Counsels and Precepts thus vncertaine vp and downe he knoweth not whether XVI That by the fall of Adam wee haue lost all our free will and that it is not in our owne power either to choose good or euill AQuestion of obscurity which better might haue beene ouer-passed in silence fitting rather Schooles then popular eares especially the differences hanging on such niceties and the controuerted particulars of no great moment in fine vpon due examination For it is confessed that free will is a Power of the reasonable Soule and peculiar vnder Heauen to man which is indued with freedome to doe or not to doe whereby they make choyce of one end rather then of another and of some meanes rather then of other vpon aduice and deliberation of the vnderstanding chiefe Councellor to the will This Power was conferred vpon man at first in the day of his Creat on when he was made a liuing Soule In state of Nature intire a naturall faculty not any supernaturall endowment at all whereby most freely and absolutely he was Lord of his owne actions and could doe or not doe what he pleased and would That liberty was much empaired by sinne not extinct or amolished in corrupted Nature such as now it is The Councell of Trent rightly so defineth it Sess 6. Cant. 5. And we professe Non amissimus Naturam sed gratiam As rightly is it by that Counsell determined Liberum arbitrium non quidem extinctum esse sed viribus attenuatum The question is all of these vires remaining and quatenus attenuatum liberum arbitrium The Church of England Artic. 10. concludeth thus The condition of man after the fall of Adam is such that he cannot turne nor prepare himselfe by his owne naturall strength and good workes to faith and calling vpon God Wherefore we haue no power to doe good workes pleasant and acceptable vnto God without the grace of God by Christ preuenting vs that we may haue a good will and working with vs when we haue that good will Man is here considered in a two-fold state of Nature depraued and restored In that Free-will is denyed vnto man for workes of righteousnesse before conuersion not for workes of Nature or of Morality In the second Free-will is granted vnto man When we haue that good will what is it else and By our Free-will assisted by Grace worke out our saluation vnto the end This is not that opinion condemned in the Councell of Trent Sess 6. Can. 5. which taketh away free-will from man after preuenting Grace in cooperation vnto increase of Grace for it is said that Grace infused first and had worketh together with our good will So it is not denyed but free-will is In vs subsisting not in title onely It is not said that by the â—all of Adam wee haue vtterly lost all of vs our free-will as if the Soule were cleane defeated and disfurnished of that Power So that this blunderer stumbleth at a straw and impudently belyeth our Profession What some haue thought or taught is nothing to vs. No Church is to be charged with priuate opinions Man in state of Corruption hath freedome of will in Actions Naturall and Ciuill Secondly Man in state of Corruption hath free-will in matters Morall Thirdly Man hath free-will in Actions of Piety and such as belong vnto his saluation But quatenus and quale is the Question as much amongst your selues as with vs. For the concurrence of Grace assisting with Free-will The correspondency of Free well with Prescience Prouidence and Predestination is much debated in your owne Schooles Intricate Disputes are hereupon inferred Questions almost inextricable such as Armachanus studied twenty yeeres to resolue one of them and was faine to giue it ouer without an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I haue found it Wee resolue thus farre First with Saint Augustine Lib. 1. cont 2. Epistolas Pelagianorum cap. 2. Quis nostrum dicit quod primi hominis peccato perierit arbitrium de humano genere Libertas quidem perijt per peccatum sed illa quae in Paradiso fuit habendi plenaÌ„ cum immortalitate iustitiam Doth any of vs affirme that Free-will is perished vtterly from man by the fall of Adam Freedome is perished I grant by sinne but that freedome which was in Paradise of hauing righteousnesse with immortality Againe we confesse with the same Saint Augustine Man is not meerely passiue in all workes of Grace to glory For Qui creauit te sine te non saluabit te siâ—e te He that made thee alone without thy helpe will not saue thee alone without thy concurrance Man is to worke that will haue reward In Conclusion the Condition of Man since the fall of Adam is such that he cannot turne nor prepare himselfe to God by or through his owne naturall or humane power and strength This is the Doctrine of the Church of England Preuented by Grace and assisted therewith he then putteth to his hand to procure augmentation of that Grace and continuance vnto the end No man commeth to God but hee is drawen Drawen hee runneth or walketh as his assistance is and his owne agility and disposition to the end This is enough And the wisdome of the Church hath not ventured farre to put a tye of Obedience vpon mens beliefe in points of inextricable obscurity almost of the concordance in working of Grace and Predestination with Free-will Moderate spirits would well and wisely sit them downe by temperate courses and not clamor without rage where is no cause nor delight to set the Peace of the Church on hurres onely for faction and some priuate sinister indirect ends of their owne Contrary to our owne Bibles it is not which we reade 1 Cor. 7. 37. He that standeth sted fast in his heart hauing no necessity but hath power ouer his owne will and hath so decreed that he will keepe his Virgin doth well So it is confessed he doth and that hee may haue power so to doe For it is not absolute as if euery one had such Power but Conditionall If any haue such Power The Apostic saith That man hath Power if he be not tyed which Text may as well demolish as build vp Free-will For here is supposed at least some time an ouer-awing and ouer-commanding Necessity or Coaction Again this Freedome specified here is but in
can please God or be accepted of him Hee is not iust that is in this state In that of Grace a man is iust when hee is changed which must haue concurrence of two things Priuation of being to that which was the Body of sinne A new constitution vnto God in another state In which hee that is altered in state changed in condition transformed in minde renewed in soule regenerate and borne a new to God by Grace is iust in the state of iustification ceasing to be what hee was becomming what he was not before Thus to be changed is to be a new Creature The act is saide by Dauid Psalm 51. To create Which being a worke of Omnipotent power exceedeth the indowment of any Creature It is not therefore of our selues from or by our selues But this change is the worke of the right hand of the most high operating powerfully as hee can and actiuely as hee will Wrought it is by God by God alone Man or Mans free-will is not author hereof Therefore no merit interveneth therefore not to be ascribed to our selues None here but Christ preuenting vs the Author of our integritie crowne of our felicitie and consummator of our glorie Secondly to iustifie is to giue increase and augmentation vnto that first Article as to be more iust in processe and profectu by increase of Grace and the fruit of that Spirit by which they are renewed in the inner man In naturall action and passion it plainely appeareth Cold water is made warme vpon the fire heere is an alteration of the propertie Warme water is made hotter by continuing on the fire with an augmentation and accesse of that heate So I vnderstand it Apoc. 22. Qui iustus est iustificetur adhuc Hee that is iust let him become more iust by accesse of Gods Grace euer day by day Thirdly to iustifie is to declare and pronounce one iust as Prou. 8. He that iustifieth the wicked and condemneth the righteous is alike abominable before the Lord. So againe in the 50. Psalme That thou mayest be iustified in thy sayings and cleare when thou art iudged God is not otherwise iustified but by being knowne acknowledged and confessed iust in all his wayes As he is said to be magnified when his noble acts are made knowne and men doe praise him for his mercy goodnesse and saluation Iustification properly is in the first acceptance A Sinner is then iustified when hee is made iust that is translated from state of Nature to state of Grace as Colos 1. 13. Who hath deliuered vs from the power of darkenesse and hath translated vs into the Kingdome of his deere Sonne Which is motion as they say betwixt two termes and consisteth in forgiuenesse of sinnes primarily and Grace infused secondarily Both the act of Gods Spirit in man but applyed or rather obtained through Faith which representeth first God willing and ready to forgiue and renew Draweth neere vnto him closeth in fast with him Adhereth vnto him inseparabâ—y with I will not let thee goe except thou blesse And God doth returne I will blesse thee pardon thy sinnes for my names sake and accept thee as mineowne in Christ my sonne whose Bloud hath made attonement for Man So that properly to speake God onely iustifieth who alone imputeth not but pardoneth sinne Who onely can and doth translate vs from death vnto life renueth a right Spirit and createth a new heart within vs. Causally and actiuely God doth it But because God was drawne thereto by our Faith which laying hands vpon his mercy in Christ obtayneth this Freedome and newnesse and renewing from him Faith is saide to iustifie instrumentally And Faith alone to doe it without copartners in the act which is in instanti as Gods immediate workes are all done and not long adoing as wee know The Soule of man is the subiect of this act In which vnto which are necessarily required certaine preparations and preuious dâ—spositions to the purpose As knowledge of God our selues his Law his iustice iealousie iudgement c. Feare Hope Contrition Loue desire of purpose for a new life and such like But these are all with and from Faith which in the very act of iustification are not actiue though habitually there then before and after at least some of them perhaps not all Iustification is not but in the Church Faith is the life and originall of the Church as appeareth by the Scriptures by the Subiect and performance of Faith So that worthily may the principall indowment of Grace be ascribed vnto the roote and originall of Christian Piety Faith Fides prima datur saith Saint Augustine ex qua caetera impetrantur In the first signification then of iustification the which properly is iustification wee acknowledge instrumentally Faith alone and Causally God alone In the second and third beside God and Faith wee yeeld to Hope and Holinesse and Sanctification and the fruits of the Spirit in good workes But both these are not Iustification rather Fruits and Consequents and effects appendants of Iustification then Iustification which is a solitary act So that well and truly and according to the tenet of Antiquity is it resolued by our Church Artic. 11. We are accounted righteous before God onely for the merit of our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ by faith and not for our owne workes or deseruing Our Iustification in the act thereof is onely the worke of God for Christs sake whose death and Passion apprehended by Faith which is the sole peculiar worke of Faith to doe as it hath made an attonement betwixt God and vs so hath it procured remission of our Sinnes at his hands and thereupon a new state of Grace not for any merit or deseruing of our own which is vtterly excluded in this Act. Thus Thomas 1. 2. q. 114. ar 7. Nullo modo aliquis potest sibi mereri reparationem post lapsum Restauration after fall that is Iustification of a sinner no man can procure or deserue vnto himselfe To whom agreeth the Councell of Trent Sess vi can viij and your owne men confesse it is gratuita And therefore as our Article saith not for our owne workes or deseruings Further our Church proceedeth not to the augmentation or declaration of iustification there But inferreth Wherefore that we are iustified by faith alone is a most wholesome Doctrine and very full of comfort as it is indeede and your long disputes may intangle the simple but not infringe the truth nor indeede discent from it Fides non absoluit iustificationem saith Casalius and wee admit it but sola iustificat and hee admitteth that For so haue antiquitie auouched generally as himselfe and Cassander doe confesse Origen Hilary and many others to haue resolued so But this is contrary vnto our Bible 1 Corinth 13. 2. Though I haue all faith so that I could remoue mountaines and haue no charitie I am nothing Therefore only faith doth not iustifie Why because Faith without Charity doth not iustifie for
departed receiue by the assistance of the Church To admit it euident and concerning succour which soules departed receiue and that by the assistance of the Church yet first I say you go from your word no such contrariety heer as you pretend Secondly you are a poor Ignaro that think soules must needs be in Purgatory that receiue assistance from the Church It may be your poor vnderstanding will wonder at it but knowe Sir I can admit Praier for the Dead and deny your Purgatory I can giue you reasons to pray for the Dead and yet keep farre enough from your Purgatory But for that some other time At present I answer You are a silly man that call this an euident place one of the hardest in all Scripture Quid sit baptizari pro mortuis obscurum est ab Authoribus variè exponitur say your owne men which is true For till this day it is not agreed what is the meaning no man can say This is the sense and yet our Blunderer saith It is euident Doo you knowe that some take pro mortuis for the Dead that is for sinnes because men die through sinnes and the works of sin are called Dead works And so men are baptized to be deliuered from sinne These men dreamt not of Purgatory That others vse pro mortuis that is doo represent the Dead because we die to sinne in Baptism and are buried vnto corruption And not much differing hence that others take it Into the death of Christ which of these thought vpon Purgatory Again some take Baptism for affliction men afflicted vnto death what shall they doo if the dead rise not again Some referre it vnto a Iewish custome by which if a man had died polluted another was clensed and washed for him that so beeing dead hee might get aduantage by it This Iewish Fable may happely look vpon your Purgatory and much good may it doo you Yet farther Chrysostome relateth vpon this place that when any of the Catechized among the Marcionite Heretiques died a liuing body was laid vnder the Beer and the question proposed vnto the Party If he would be baptized for you knowe the Catechumeni were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vnbaptized The Party answered for the dead man Yes I will and so was hee baptized for him And thus they expounded Saint Paul's meaning Tertullian by dead vnderstandeth the body of man If there be no Resurrection to what end is the body baptized Epiphanius lastly and most men commonly take it for the baptizing of the Clinici as they called them Men in those times vsually deferred Baptism vntill their death and in extremis would be baptized So to be baptized for the Dead is to be baptized when men are ready to dy which they not doe but vpon hope of the Resurrection In such variety and greater than so yet saith this fellowe An euident place To come home to the assertion It is plaine and euident the Apostle speaketh not of any succour that soules departed receiued from the Suffrages of the Church which were it granted no necessity of Purgatory would ensue but of comfort that men receiued from that mayne point of our most holy faith the Resurrection of the Dead the mayne Subiect of that Chapter as euery child with vs can tell See more for wee haue seene but little hitherto 2. Tim. 1. 18. where That day is transmued into Purgatory For Saint Pauls words are The Lord grant vnto him that he may find mercy with the Lord at that day that is may bee deliuered out of Purgatory at the day of Iudgement So wheresoeuer God sheweth mercy there is Purgatory or All that finde mercy at the day of Iudgement come out of Purgatory Vnlesse this bee his meaning let him tell me what he would haue with Saint Paul here If this bee his meaning I wish him well for sure hee is in no right wits because so no man liuing can escape Purgatory by this inference For no man but findeth mercy with God before that time and then No man but needeth Gods mercy then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In that fearfull and terrible day when wee stand in need of great mercy indeed saith Chrysost who neuer dreamt of any Purgatory nor would haue sent Onesiphorus thither had hee fancied any such thing for euen according to your owne Doctrine his good deeds had not onely aboundantly merited for himselfe sufficiently satisfied for his Peccadilloes but his Indurances ouer and aboue layd somewhat vnto the Church-treasure And what hath Purgatory to do with such a man Esay 4. 4. the Prophet speaketh of the Spirit of burning and of Purging thus When the Lord shall wash the filthines of the daughter of Sion purge the blood of Ierusalem out of the midst thereof by the Spirit of iudgement and by the Spirit of burning then without all doubt Purgatory burneth apace the rather because Saint Augustine expoundeth it of Purgatory Lib. 20. de Ciuit. Dei Cap. 25 saith Bellar. You left vs to seeke Cap. 21 say others so your selues are to seeke I meane for any such thing in Saint Augustine For hee is belied in both places which touch not vpon Purgatory at all but manifestly designe the last Iudgement In the 21. he professes himself that his discourse was wholly therof à primo Saluatoris aduentu vsque ad vltimū Iudiciū de quo nunc agimus And more euidently Cap. 25. Videtur euidentius apparere in illo Iudicio quodam quorundā futuras Poenas purgatorias Purgatory paines are by S. Augustine put off and adiourned vnto the last Iudgement then to begin when yours end and this but in opinion not resolution Now Sir what aduantage haue you by Saint Augustine who speaketh opiningly of Purgatory but excludeth your Purgatory And to as much purpose is Saint Basil expounding the place of Esay 9. 18. of Purgatory you say The text is For wickednes burneth as a fire it deuoureth the briers and thornes and will kindle in the thick places of the Forrest and they shall mount vp like the lifting vp of smoke Basil in his exposition nameth purging fire I grant it but this purging fire is in life not after death in this world not in the world to come and God himselfe is this purging fire who abolisheth and consumeth iniquitie by Repentance being detected by confession as any man may see that will but looke vpon the place and the same Father vpon the 10. of Esay more plainely explicateth his owne meaning Pandit hic naturam ignis quia lustratiuus est et purgatorius Sanctificabit enim ipsum quasi in igne ardenti Quomodo autem sanctificat ignis Quia comesturus est syluam tanquam foenū Sanè ex quo Deus noster ignis consumens est consumet syluā et vitia quae à syluā siue materiâ promanant animae quae non degit in spiritu sed in carne Strange conceits that if any Father name purging fire hee must needs bee a