Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	day_n	hear_v	see_v	10,326	5	3.3220	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A44501	The Quakers proved deceivers and such as people ought not to listen to, or follow, but to account accursed, in the management of a charge formerly given out against them to that effect, by J. Horne, preacher of the gospel at South-Lin in Norfolke. Which charge was managed and made good by him against George Whitehead, in the chancel of South-Lin, before some hundreds of people, Jan. 13. 1659. to the great baffling of the said George Whitehead and his party, through the merciful and gracious hand of the Lord appearing for his truth and servants therein, as is known to, and witnessed by the generality of the audience of understanding. Published as a warning to all to beware of the said people called Quakers, and their erroneous principles herein also in part discovered.	Horn, John, 1614-1676.	1660 (1660)	Wing H2807; ESTC R221604	29,025	16

Heaven to induce us to receive them it is no Angell like appearance either in their excellent speech speaking like Angells vanting that they are in the Spirit and Power of God nor any Angell like carriage in appearing humility holynesse sinlesnesse c. that should presently make us conclude such and such men are of God even such also may be Persons to be accounted accursed by us For even Satan himself is transformed into an Angell of light and no marvaile if his Messengers or Emissaries transforme themselves into Ministers of righteousnesse as the Apostle sayes 2 Cor. 11.13 14. these things then be not the certain characters to know men to be listened to and received by but according to their conformity to the Apostles doctrine If any pretending never such immediate authority from God or have never such an Angell like speech and carriage yet agree not to or speak not the language and Doctrine delivered by the Apostles for the obedience of faith to and among all Nations we are not to listen to or follow him but account him accursed such be the Persons to be so accounted by us I should nextly then inquire into the Doctrine or Gospel preached by the Apostles and so bring these men to the trial of that Touchstone but I shall not enlarge upon that because I would be brief and give him time to answer for himself Only I shall pitch upon two Heads of Trials 1. Touching the manner of the coming of the true Prophets and Apostles in the way of their doctrine And 2. The matter delivered by them therein For the manner of their coming shall note 1. That the true Apostles and Prophets of God and Christ alwayes use● 〈◊〉 to come with abusements of themselves in the Presence of God and with exalting and lifting up God and Christ they use to own themselves sinners to have sin and to be weak bruitish in themselvs as of themselves and the like never any of them have used to vaunt themselves or speak of themselves or one another as sinless but always abase themselves and glorisie the Lord thee therefore that come otherwise preaching themselves sinless and perfect and much more that vilisie and reproach others for confesting sin these have nor the badges of the true Prophets and Apostles by this we may discover this People called Quakers That the holy men of God the Prophets and Apostles use to own themselves to have sin in them the Scripture witness 1. The Patriarchs and First Fathers though we read not of any pa●ticular sins of some of them yet in this they are manifest to have owned themselves to have been sinners and to have sin in them that they use to worship God by Secrifice in which was a remembrance of sin Hebr. 10.2 3. But 2. The Prophets are more express in their acknowledgments as David Psal 19.12 Who can know his errors cleanse thou me from my secret sins and keep me that presumptuous sins prevail not over me he had secret sins them it seems to be cleansed from And again in Psal 38.16 17. I said hear me least otherwise they mine enemies should rejoyce over me when my foot slippeth it seems he was sensible of slips sometimes then they magnifie themselves against me then they rejoyce and insult See this is a Character of false Prophets and enemies to the true Prophets so to do Yea he further adds for I am ready to halt and my sorrow is continually before me for I will declare my iniquity I will be sorry for my sin see David was sensible of his readiness to halt and bewails it and he had iniquity and sin he confested but mine enemies adds he are lively and they are strong c. The enemies to the true Prophets they it seems boasted themselves and vapoured in their strength and pretended holiness as if they had no sin to confess as poor David had and rep●oached David for it as these people and this G. Whitehead have lately reproached us for joyning our selves with the Nation in confessing sin and that they the Quakers are ordered of God as a judgment to us namely this Nation whereof we are part for our neglect of Christ the salvation of God and abuse of his truth how do they infult over us for this Are they not herein made manifest to be like Davids enemies false Prophets that magnified themselves against him and were lively and strong while he confest his sin Again in Psal 143.2 David says Enter not into judgment with thy servant O Lord for no man living shall be justified in thy fight Mark no man living implying clearly that there is no man so just and holy and without sin in himself while he is alive in the world or living or before his decease that he may be any otherwise justified in the fight of God then by his not entring into judgement with him that is then by his forgiving his sin and accepting him in Christ doth not that then clearly and perfectly imply no man perfectly freed from sin in himself in this life Solomon also says in 1 Kings 8.46 There is no man that sinneth not And Eccles 7.20 There is not a just man on earth that doth good and sinneth not he did not then magnifie himself as sinless Agur also a good man see how he abase● himself and gives glory to God in the beginning of his prophesie Prov. 30.2 3. Sarely says he I am more brutish than man and have not the understanding of a man I neither learned wisdome nor have the knowledge of the holy Who hath ascended c. Every word of God is pure he is a shield to them that trust in him he was far from witnessing perfection in himself and glorying thereof to others No he abases himself and only gives glory to God Isaiah also when h● was a Prophets for he began to prophesie in the days of Vzziah Isai 1.1 when he saw the glory of God and Christ and the Seraphins hiding their faces and feet with their wings in his presence as not pure enough for Gods sight and heard them cry one to another not of o● another Holy holy holy is the Lord God of Hosts the whole earth is full of his glory cries out Wo is me for I am undone because I am a man of unclean lips and live in the midst of a people of unclean lips c. And though the Lord then took away his iniquity and purged his sin as if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness 1 Joh. 1.9 yet we find him again afterward confessing his sin and joyning himself with the people in confessing their iniquities and so he was none of them people reproved by him that use to say to others Stand by thy self I am more holy then thou as Isai 65.5 as in Isai 59.10 11 12 13. We grope for the wall like the blind and we grope as if we

I undertake to make you ovvn it But to prove you so It s enough the people see it They are to judg vvhether I make good my charge T.M. Either speak something to purpose or acknovvledg thy mouth stopp'd as it hath often been by the force of the truth G.W. He vvould have me acknovvledg my mouth stopt and yet I speak to them and ansvver them T.M. A man may have his mouth stopt though he speak vvhen he speaks to no purpose A mans mouth his stop'd when he cannot resist the wisdome and povver by vvhich the truth is spoken as Act 6. could not resist though yet they are said Act. 7. to have resisted And it appears thy mo●th is stopt because thou runst avvay from the charge to other imper● things J.H. Well George hither to I have made good my charg That you come not as the true Prophets and Apostles thou hast not been able to prove That any of them preach'd themselves free from sin so as to be without sin Thou didst speak of David confessing another state and brought Psal 107.1 All that is within me bless his holy name and from thence wouldst infer that David had no sin in him then for How could sin bless Gods name but David himself implyes the contrary for vers 3. he sayes Who forgiveth all thine iniquity it seems he had some then G.W. They were for given T.M. It is forgiveth in the present time can there be forgiveness of sin if there be no sin he signifies a dayly forgiving or to such purpose G.W. David saith Psal 119.1 There are some underfiled in the way who do no iniquity J.H. Doth David say There are some undefiled he sayes they are blessed that are so but that there are some so at least in such a sense as to have no sin in them he sayes not I am sure he sayes not so of himself That he had no sin in him but implyes the contrary in vers 5 6. when he sayes O that my wayes were so directed that I might keep thy statutes as implying they were not yet so And again Then shall I not be ashamed when I shall have respect to all thy Commandements he doth not say He had then such respect to them all G.W. Doth not David say there are some undefiled when he sayes blessed are the undefiled in the way and doth not every sin defile therefore he Witnesled some had a sinless state or to that purpose J.H. He sayes undefiled in the way Christ is the way We grant some undefiled and compleat in Christ but not so as to be sinless in themselves Is not undefiled perfect G.W. Yea undefiled is perfect J. H. A man may be perfect in a Scripture sense and yet have sin Asa's heart was perfect with the Lord all his dayes and yet he sinned G.W. When was that written of him J.H. Surely after his death how else should they say what he was all his dayes G.W. Nay it might be written before and so all his dayes till that was written his heart was perfect for afterward he relyed not on the Lord but sought to the Physicians his heart was not perfect then J.H. How could the Hystory of his life and death be written but after his death It is not said all those dayes or till such a time but his heart was perfect all his dayes a part of his dayes is n●t all his dayes his heart was perfect in that he walked not between God and Baal or an● fa●se-wo●ship G.W. He might be perfect all his dayes till then that was written but if the righteous man turn 〈◊〉 his right●o●sness and co●mit miquity his righteousness shall not be mentioned J.H. H●● heart was perfect all his dayes his righteousness is mentioned It is not said 〈◊〉 turned 〈◊〉 being perfect-hearted G.W. He was but one J.H. I● one that had sin in him or sinned might be yet called perfect-hearted then why not tw● o● twenty or an hundred He would sain have been reading in J. H's book but he told him it was besides the b●siness Wh●●● w● were busie in our discourse came Giles Rose a poor deluded man that was one of the ●●st ●hat turned Q●aker in the Town of Lin but upon some account or other doth not throughly ●w● th●m but is est●ded at them and as it hath been said objected sometimes against them some 〈…〉 ●ges between some of their speakers and a woman of them He had made an inter●●p●●on two dayes before of another dispute between G.VV. and another Mi●ster in the Town The people hea●ing him begin at a distance like a kin●e of distracted man to call out and seeing him coming made some commotion some of them crying to have him carryed away that he might not ●ake any dist●●ce o● interruption of the Dispute but that he ●ight proceed and others ●●ging him in and setting him in the midst of us who began first to one party and then to 〈◊〉 to play the part of a Prophet in his conception against us for disp●ting and variance● 〈◊〉 for ●oos●ning the ●●e of love taxing G. VV. and his party for drawing away Wives from them 〈…〉 Children from their Parents Servants from their Masters c. To whome GEORGE spake a word or two ●ebuking his way as deceit T.M. See the 〈…〉 thy ministry George the people laught thy Principles are sur● to lead 〈◊〉 to dest●actions G.W. He is none of ●●e fruit of my Ministry I. A. Your Principles or Ministry led a Brother of mine I am sure into destraction I H. Yes I am a witnesse of that so he fell to my knowledge out of Quaking fits within a very little space into destraction and within a fortnight died G. W. It was before I came to this Towne I. H. But not before yonr Principles and Doctrine came after some time of interruption by the aforesaid Giles when a little quiet was obtained I. H. fell on againe I. H. I have made good my charge against you George as not coming as the true Apostles and Prophets use to do I shall a little speak to the other part in one argument because I see time goes a way 'T is this they that under-mine and destroy the hope of the Gospel preached by the Apostles they are preachers of another Gospel or Doctrine then the Apostles preached and are to be accounted accursed and not received or followed This I charge you Quakers with and you G. W. by name in that you say the coming of Christ at which the dead in Christ are to be raised is already past and over They that so do subvert the hope of the Gospel Mind it people They that say the coming of Christ wherin the dead in Christ are to be raised is past and over they subvert or under-mine the hope of the Gosple for if Christ be come in his glory and the Saints raised that were dead and the living changed and all together caught up in the aire to meete the Lord what

have we then to hope or look for G. W. denying this I. H. read their words out of their Book against him and T. M. their words are thus as for that coming of Christ spoken of in 1 Thess ●4 15 which these men would blindly put a sat off to a coming of Christ in a Body of flesh and bones the Apostle says wee that live and remaine tell the coming of the Lord. So that coming of Christ the Saints that were ●hen a live remained unto it Judge good people is Christ yet come are the dead bodies of the Saints raised and the living changed and all caught up together in the aire to meete him If those men be not such as we are to avoid and account accursed who be G. W. Thou readest out of a book and yet will not give w●y I should read out of thy Book M. H Here is not the same reason He ●s to prove you deceivers and such as are to be accounted accursed or to that purpose and therfore may produce Testimonies out of your books against you but you are not to prove against him but to defend your self J H What host thou to say to this argument G.W. I meant is not of that resurrection of the dead thou speakest of or to that purpose J H. Thou speakest of that coming of Christ mentioned in that Scripture and that Scripture speaks of Christ descending from Heaven to raise the dead in him I shall read it to you 1 Thess 4.13 14 I would not have you ignorant Brethren concerning them that sleept It s evident he speaks of those that sleepe in the bodyly death as it s sayd of St●phen that when he had said those words he fell a sleepe He would not have Beleivers mourne as those without hope concer●ing them For if we beleive sayth he that Jesus died and rose again even so then also that sleepe in Jesus will God bring with him for this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive that is those of us of our body or society accounting beleivers of all ages but as one body and remain● to the coming of the Lord shall not revent th● that are a sleepe For the Lord himself shall dese●nd from heaven with a shout and with the vo●ce o● th● Archangel and with the Trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first and we which ●e a live and remaine shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meete the Lord in the ai●e and so shall we ever be with the Lord. What more plaine th●n that he speaks of the co●ng of Christ to raise the dead those that sleepe 〈◊〉 the grave and to change ●e living beleivers 〈◊〉 Now I appeal to you all whither those things were done in the time of those beleiv● before they dyed and if so what have we to ●ope for G. W. There is a twofold sleeping spoken o● there is a sleeping spi●itually or to that purpose such as is spoken of in the next Chapter Let us not sl●epe as do others but let us watch and be ●ober for they that sleepe sleepe in the ●ght and there i● a sleeping such as St●phen is said to fall a ●eepe in at death Now the Apo● there sp●a● of the first J. H. Nay he speak of the sleeped 〈◊〉 death the dead in Christ shall rise first G. W. Is it not sayd the howe is coming and no ●s that the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and th●y that hear shall live John 5.25 J. H. Had not the Apostles and beleive●s heard that voice of 〈◊〉 Son of God raising them from death in sin before the Apostle wrote this or 〈◊〉 they that yet to looke for that in John speaks of men dead in sin and this of the dead in Christ G. W. Is it not sayd of those Th●ssalonian tha● they turned from dumb Idolls to serve the living God and to wayte for his Son from 〈◊〉 could they waite for a thing so far off was it not the revelation of Christ to their Soules or to su●h purpose was his Answer J. H. Had not those Th●ssalen●s a●evelation of christ to their Soules as to the knowledge of him before they turned from their dumb Idols to serve the living God G. W. Nay they had not the revelation of Christ then before they turned from dumb Idols but they waited for it J. H. What was it turned them to God then was not that a frutie of the Gosple coming to them and doth nor the Gospel reveale Christ G. W. Yea there is a measure of the knowledg of Christ which if they be obedient they shall have more as they that obtained like precious Faith with the Apostles that had the sure word of prophesy as a light shining in a dark place did well to take heed to it tell the day dawned and the day Starr arose in the heart when that dawned and arose that was the coming of the day of the Lord. to such purpose was his answer but with more circumstances J. H. Had not the beleivers and cheifly the Apostles beare that further measure of light and revelation of Christ when they thus wrote or what is that to the purpose of this coming spoken in the Text is that with the voice of the Archang●l and the Trump of God and the dead in Christ all raised then and those a sleepe changed that is to one now and to another then and those that are in a living frame may prevent those that are in a sleepy posture such as the Apostle warns us not to be in Therfore that 's nothing to the purpose the Thessalonians had something of that spiritual revelation of Christ as the c●●se of their turning 〈…〉 to serve the living God G. W. There George 〈◊〉 r●n into a long circuling 〈…〉 a●ing the same over and over againe the s●m● of which so f●r as I could perceive was 〈…〉 d●●●●●ent measures of the revelation of the knowledge of Christ and that they that 〈◊〉 the least should have more to the perfect day J. H. Hears nothing but the same things over and over But did the Apostles receive the full revelation of Christ in the time of their live G. W. You ask whither 〈…〉 all the glory they should have before death Or whither they should have no more glory after death T. M. Nay we ask about th● glorious coming of Christ in which the dead shall be raised had they that before they dyed is there no other coming of Christ in glory for them and us to see then what they had or see while they lived Here he wrangled a little about the question and answered nothing to purpose but that they had greater measure before they died but as if they might have more glory after J. H. It s evident that the Apostle Paul did not remaine to that coming of the Lord there spoken of that I shall prove G. W. How do you prove

it J. H. Because he diad and is dead wheras had he remained to that coming of the Lord he should only have bin changed and caught up into the aire I appeale to all the people whither my charge be not herein made good against thee G. W. Nay it is not J. H. Thou nor I must not be judges in our own causes let the people judge G. W. Nay that of God in the people must be judge J. H. I appeale to that of God in them all whither the coming of Christ there spoken of be over and past while the Apostles lived are the dead in Christ raised the living changed all together caught up into the aire to meete the Lord c G. W. Would needs read something out of J.H. book being not able to make good his saying which J. H. charged as contrary to the Apostles Doctrine about the coming of Christ And began to read something of John Horn's granting and bewayling the too much of that of the Prophet Isaiah 56.10 was too true of to many Ministers of England as that his watch-men are blind they are dumb doggs which he going about to turne upon I. H. I. H. Replyeds Nay George thou dost not finde us dumb doggs we are made able blessed be God to worry thee thou seest and put thee to the worst G. W. He is in the nature of a dog it seemes then wheras Christ sent not out his Apostles a● dogs the Lyonis said vorare of which the word worry comes but as lambs amongst wolves I. H. But the Lamb of God is a Lyon too George and maks Israel a Lyon too as in Gen 49 9. as a Lyon amongst the beasts of the Forrest as Mica 5.8 9 and it s in his strength and power that we are inabled to teare and worry thee for all thy great brags I. H. And some others of his Friends laughing at the Quakers and at G. W. to see some of his confusion in some passage G. W. Thou art in Ishmaels nature or we may see Ishmael in you or to such purpose I. H. Nay 't is Isaac's nature Isaac had his name of laughter and it is said the righteous shall see them and laugh them to scorne And we rejoice to see the Lord strengthen us to baffle you and to make manifest your folly c. G. W. Art thou righteous then I. H. Why not compleatly righteous in Christ though in my self I acknowledg sin G. W. See how he contradicts himself 〈◊〉 be compleat in Christ and yet have sin in him I. H. Though that be out of our way and from the businesse in hand yet I shall prove that those two will stand together The Apostle says Coloss 2.10 In him yee are compleat and yet in the same Epistle to the same people he says Chap 3.5 Mortifie these therfore your members that be upon Earth fornication uncleannesse c. If these were not in them how could they be called their members upon Earth and why should they be bid to mortifie them if they had no life in them too G. W. The Apostle sayes of those that were compleat in Christ In whome also yee are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands the putting off the the body of the sins of the flesh I. H. He doth so and yet bids them Chap. 3.8 Put of all those things still anger wrath malice c. They had put them off as to their purpose and bent of heart and yet had need to put them off in their dayly practic and conversation G. W. The Apostles writing to the Churches writ to diverse States Some of them were compleat in Christ and others were not but had their members to mortifie c. I. H. The Apostle makes no such distinction he says not some of you are compleat in Christ but says it without limitation to some in him yee are compleat and so he gives the other counsell to all of them yea he gives it upon supposition of their being raised with Christ and are not those that risen with Christ compleat in Christ Col. 3.1 5. what do you think that the Apostle writ one Chapter to one part of the people and another Chapter to another After this returning to the businesse of Christs coming to raise the dead being past before the Apostles dyed and nothing further being answered to it but that Paul spake of a spiritual coming to mens spirits we slid upon that of 1 Kings 8 46. I known how that there is no man that sinneth not G. W. Wilt thou affirme that of all men living now I. H. Nay first wilt thou grant it of all men living let us agree first of what was then and then come to the times now G. W. I say no man that was in that State sinned I. H. The word are there is no man that sinneth not There is no mention of any State in some in which all sinned distinct from some other state in which some men firmed not G. W. It is said if they sin for there is no man that sinneth not I. H. It is absolutely said a● the reason why Israel might be supposed to sin that there 's no man that sinneth not I M. It is not said if they sin then thereis no man that sins not but for there 's no man that sinneth not G. W. There 's no man in that State I. H. There 's no limitation to any state but there is no man that sinneth not Ah George dost thou go up and down prea●ing to men to look to the light and dost thou despute and plead against the light in thee dost thou not see the Scripture is against thee G. W. There is no man in 〈…〉 that sinneth not I H. Is there any man in 〈…〉 that is not a man if he be a man he sinneth for there is no man that sinneth not G. W. All in that state sin But 〈◊〉 thou say there is no man now that sinneth not I. H. 〈…〉 is no into living 〈…〉 not or hath not sin in him now Jesus Christ excepted G. W. then there is a 〈…〉 sinneth not Then it s not true of all men I. H. Jesus Christ is 〈◊〉 God with us God-man and so more then a man T. M. 〈…〉 Christ is included in the 〈…〉 sinned against If they sin against thee He is that one and only man that good because he is God and therfore he must needs be excepted To 〈…〉 was the discourse between I. H. and G. W. We have here given the substance and scope if not also the very 〈…〉 the Answers and the very words and forme so much as could be remembred After which the Church 〈…〉 M. H. with other Friends seeing I. H. much spent with speaking so long and so much and fearing he might 〈…〉 therin desired him to give the people some short exhortation and conclude Accordingly I. H. minded the people of what had hin proved against them and warned the people to take heed of