Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

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lord_n	david_n	earl_n	john_n	13,120	5	6.5852	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85789	The nullity of the pretended-assembly at Saint Andrews & Dundee: wherein are contained, the representation for adjournment, the protestation & reasons therof. Together with a review and examination of the Vindication of the said p. assembly. Hereunto is subjoyned the solemn acknowledgment of sins, and engagement to duties, made and taken by the nobility, gentry, burroughs, ministry, and commonalty, in the year 1648. when the Covenant was renewed. With sundry other papers, related unto in the foresaid review.	Guthrie, James, 1612?-1661.; Wood, James, 1608-1664.	1652 (1652)	Wing G2263; Wing W3400; Thomason E688_13; ESTC R202246	280,404	351

Committee of Estates The Assembly continues until the morn at ten hours that Examination of the Proceedings of the Commission of the late Assembly and do appoint that time for Hearing any New Exceptions the Committee of Estates hath to give in against the Proceedings of the said Commission PAPER sent into the ASSEMBLY WHereas it hath been the constant Care and Endeavor of the Parliament and Committee of Estates To use all means for removing and setling the Differences betwixt the Church and the State and in pursuance of that good way The Committee did yesterday give in some new Desires and Offers to the Gen. Assembly That some might be appointed to meet and confer with such as should be appointed by the Committee therupon But since instead of imbracing and laying hold of this opportunity of composing Differences The Gen. Assembly doth proceed toward an approbation of the proceedings of the Commissioners of the Assembly wherby we conceive all hopes of making up the Breaches will be removed and the prejudices will be great that will thereby ensue to this cause and Kingdom For preventing whereof we hold our selves obliged again to desire you as you tender the furtherance of the work of Reformation the Good Peace union of the Kingdoms and the composing of all Differences and Jealousies that you would apply your selves to these our Desires and appoint some of your Number to confer with us therupon for the Exceptions we have against the proceedings of the Commissioners of the Gen. Assembly We have confidence a Conference may preveen the same and are more willing not to give them in at all or at least only to give them in to those you shall appoint to confer with us that if it be possible Differences may yet be removed Then that we be necessitate to appear in publick amongst them And that this and our former Paper may remain as a testimony of our Desires for Unitie and Peace we desire that they may be Recorded in the Books of the General Assembly The Assembly do give this humble return to the Papers sent this day from the Hon. Committee of Estates That they are most willing to appoint a conference with any of their Lordsh number but that according to the Order and Acts of former Gen. Asemblies they conceive themselves obliged first to examine the proceedings of the Commission of the late Gen. Assembly and thereafter shall be willing to confer being also now ready as of before to hear Exceptions if there be any against the proceedings of the said Commission Subscrib A. Ker. The Committee of Estates understanding that the Gen. Assembly is to proceed to the examination of the proceedings of the Commissioners of the late Gen. Assembly in order to an approbation before they agree to a Conference and the Committee being to give in their just exceptions against the proceedings of the said Commissioners do desire the Gen. Assembly to allow some few dayes delay to the Committee to prepare their Exceptions before the Assembly proceed in the Business The Assembly continues the examination of the Proceedings of the late Gen. Assembly until four afternoon and appoints that time for Hearing any new Exceptions the Honorable Committee of Estates have to give in against the Proceedings of the said Commission Subscrib A. Ker. The Committee of Estates finding it impossible in so short a time to prepare their Objections against such of the proceedings of the Commissioners of the General Assembly as relates to their Engagement and yet being most willing to essay all fair means for procuring an happy Understanding betwixt Kirk and State are content to appoint some of their Number to meet with such as shall be appointed by the General Assembly for Composing of Differences betwixt the Church and State without prejudice to them to use all their just Objections against the proceedings of the Commissioners of the late General Assembly if the Conference shall not produce these happy Effects they earnestly wish The General Assembly unto the Motion sent this afternoon from the Honorable Committee of Estates Do return humbly this Answer That they yeeld to their Lordships Desires of a Conference and for this end appoints M rs David Calderwood David Dickson Robert Douglass Andrew Cant John Moncreif John Smith and John Mac Clelland Ministers and the Earl of Cassilles the Earl of Louthian Lord Balmernio the Lairds of Moncreif and Freeland with the Moderator to confer with any appointed by the Honorable Committee of Estates at such time and place as shall be appointed by their Lordships upon the present Dangers to Religion and the cause of God the great prejudices done to the Liberties of the Kirk and the best remedies thereof And to Report the Result of their Conference from time to time And they have also Power to receive any Offers or Papers from the Honorable Committee of Estates and to present the same to the Assembly Declaring that the proceedings of the Commission of the late Assembly being new exactly tryed and unanimously approven there is no place left for any Objections against the same Subscrib A. Ker. Reasons why these who dis-approved the Publick Resolutions and Acts at Dundee Ratifying the same and ordaining censures to passe upon the opposers and unsatisfied cannot keep the Assembly now indicted nor be consenting unto the Election of Commissioners for that effect THe chief cause of many evils which have befallen this Church in time of defection under Prelacie being clearly determined by the Gen Assembly at Edinburgh 1639. to have been the keeping and authorizing corrupt Generall Assemblies it is of high concernment that we take heed that we be not consenting nor concurring to the keeping and authorizing such Assemblies in this declining time amongst which the Assembly indicted by the Commissioners of the pretended Assembly at St. Andrews and Dundee is to be reckoned and consequently ought not to be keeped by any who have protested against or are in their consciences unsatisfied with the Publick resolutions and Acts of the Assembly at Dundee establishing the same as involving defection and backsliding from the Cause of God and Covenant To speak nothing of the indiction of the ensuing Assembly which can neither be acknowledged by any who have protested against or by any who doubts of the freedom● lawfulness and constitution of the Assembly at Dundee but allanerly of the constitution thereof in so far as it depends upon the Acts of that Assembly These reasons seem to warrand and require the forbearance and non-concurrence of all these who disallow of the Acts of the pretended Assembly at Dundee in the election of Commissioners unto a keeping the diet of the Assembly now indicted 1. No man ought to be consenting unto the authorizing of Commissioners to keep an Assembly which is constitute by a corrupt rule But in the judgment of such as approve not the Acts of the Assembly of Dundee the ensuing Assembly is constitute by a corrupt rule Ergo The major

was that was given to the Generall Assembly of that businesse some of the Commissioners confession before the Commission of the Church at Striveling after Dunbar doth bear witnesse it may be remembered that the Moderator then regrated that the plain businesse was not made known to the Generall Assembly and that most of what was spoken in that debate at Striveling tended rather to clear the Gen. Assembly then to justifie the Treaty and indeed these after discoverie of hidden and sinfully concealed truths may plead for a fair construction of what the Assembly did in approving their Commissioners proceedings which belike they would not have approven if they had known all the truth And do afford sufficient ground for the Remonstrators afterward to Remonstrate them without reflecting upon the Assembly or upon their own professions of respect to the Doctrine and Government of this Church Secondly these acts were not so most unanimously concluded as the Author affirmes It is true that there was no Protestation nor open and plain dissent by any member of the Assembly against them but severall members who had profest their dis-satisfaction with that matter in private when it came to be voted in Publick they did so qualifie their Vote that it did relate onely to the approving of the diligence of the Commissioners insinuating that they were not clear to approve of the mater I acknowledge that it was a weaknesse that they did not plainly declare their minde which some of them were requested to forbear but this shews that there was not so great unanimity in that matter as he speaks of He is not ignorant that as that businesse was from the first to the last rashly transacted and against the inclinations of the generality of the Godly in the land whilst they yet did see the King continuing in his opposition to the work of God so also against the inclination of many in the Assembly who yet could not find a ground to dissent oppenly from that conclusion because of the fair representation of the matter made to them Thirdly before the Remonstrance was penned there was palpable and clear discoveries of the hollownes of that transaction in Holland the King had given Commissions to the Malignants to rise in Armes and had himself deserted the Judicatories and gone away to join with the Malignants and severall other things of that kinde were made known before there was any meeting about the Remonstrance let be any conclusion taken upon it Fourthly there could not be any address to these Judicatories by way of supplication or otherwise to desire them to re-examine or to take to their consideration again these Acts and Constitutions because the Gen. Ass which only by the Authors own acknowledgement had power so to do was not then sitting nor to sit for eight or nine moneths thereafter and the Lord having smitten us so sore as at Dunbar and being still threatning more wrath it was no time to delay nor dallie the representing the grounds of his controversie Fifthly when that Remonstrance past the Forces of the West were enclosed between the English Forces at Glasgow and those at Carlile and resolved to lay down their lives in the defence of their Religion and Country and therefore thought themselves bound to exoner their consciences in a free and plain way and to leave that Testimony behinde them concerning the guiltinesse of the Land and the Judicatories thereof Sixthly that Remonstrance was not the deed of some of the Protesters onely but for the substance First the deed of one of the best and most famous Synods of this Church and afterwards both for substance and words the deed of a very considerable number of Officers gentlemen and Ministers whose integrity and zeal for the Publicke Cause from the beginning was known and approven not onely to the Judicatories of Church and State but to all good men throughout the Land Seventhly that as it is true that these who came with the Remonstrance to present it to the Committee of Estates being required if they had any power committed to them to change any thing thereof did plainly declare that though some expressions might be changed yet they had no power to alter any thing in the matter So it is no lesse true that these who did require them if they had any such power being told that they had power to communicate the same unto them before they gave it in to the Committee and to take their advice and assistance therein did not after the reading and hearing thereof professe any dislike of the matter therein contained much lesse did they use any arguments to diswade them from giving it in which gave just ground to the other to think that they did approve thereof they being men of such ripnesse of judgement freedome intimacy and friendlinesse with these who gave it in that they could not but look upon their silence as an approving of their way Eigthly let it be considered whether the Remonstrators or these who were hugged by the Commission of the Church and the Meeting at St. Andrews and Dundee was their best friends and most forward for the Publick Resolutions are this day most tender of the Liberties of Church and State the latter consenting to all the demands of the present power and the former every where refusing as to that which is said to be proved by Mr. John Carstares his Letter to the Lord Register how weakly is this alledged Mr. John Carstares was then a prisoner at Edinburgh the Remonstrators were at Dumfreis the Remonstrance was presented at Striveling he knew not so much as either matter or forme of the Remonstrance till it was presented how then could he give advice therein Or if his Letter was intercepted how could that advice come to their hands that they might hearken thereto If there had been any thing in that Letter that made for his purpose why did not the Author cite the words of it after the intercepting thereof It was shewed to Mr. Robert Dowglas and diverse others and as it did then so if it were needfull to make it publick it would now prove that there was nothing in it of which either Mr. John or my Lord Register needs to be ashamed and it would abundantly confute the calumnies of some and correct the mistakes of others particularly in the thing for which it is alledged VINDICATION SEcondly publick vilifying of Acts of the Generall Assembly as not to be pressed in matters of conscience witnesse Mr. James Guthrie his Speach uttered publickly in the Commission at Striveling where in conference upon the Western Remonstrance when the Moderator did once and again presse the Act of the Generall Assembly approving the close of the Treaty with the King and the Declaration of the same Assembly emitted when the English Army entred the Land against that part of the Remonstrance condemning the close of the Treaty he publickly answered Presse me not with humane constitutions in matters of Conscience all