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A92768 A sea-cabbin dialogue, between two travellers lately come from Holland Translated out of Dutch; and dedicated to all those who desire to understand things rightly. 1652 (1652) Wing S2166G; ESTC R230267 35,605 66

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the most part empty because most of what they bring from thence are Commodities of other Countries growths whereby Trading will cease Merchants will be constrained to stay for returnes till their Commodities be sold and their monies received for to make them over by exchange unto London and returne thither with their empty Ships So likewise will they be constrained to return their monies thither in such Commodities as they want at much dearer Rates even for their ready money then they could have had them for in Holland upon time and would have made two or three returnes from Holland before they can make one in this way Besides that some wares are cheaper in Holland then at the place where they grow and where they are made Moreover it will prove a great losse to all the Townes in England that they may not take this opportunity but must he forced to goe further to buy Hempe To Danzick for Corne to Venice and Zant for Currens run great hazards especially in these times when as the Seas are beset with numbers of men of War and loofe many moneths time to buy their wares dearer Besides that all these Townes commonly save halfe of all their exchanges by the returne of those Commodities and many get the double of their exchanges by returne of them To all which the experient in the Traffick do adde this for a maine Argument of the undoing of the Trade of most of the Townes in England viz. In that all other Townes except London can vent but a little Hempe a little Iron a little Spice and so of a hundred things more and therefore it s argued thus That their Ships must needs lye still because those small Townes cannot vent a Ships loading of each or of two or three Commodities nor have they money enough to have a stock lye in Holland in Wares to be sold and another stock to be sent to another place to fetch home Commodities from so remote Countrie That many Hollanders will goe and dwell in Eastland France and other places and so will bring home Hempe Pitch and Tar from Eastland as also Wynes and Salt from France and Spaine the which as it cannot bee hindred will enrich them and impoverish England And as experience tells that as by this meanes all or many Forrayne Commodities will be the dearer in England it will thereupon ensue that the English Nation will loose a great part of their Trade in forraigne parts and that the Hollanders will incorporate the same to themselves by being also to sell cheaper then the English And this for the particular reasons whereby the Argument is made the more infallible in that they have more Money then they can well bestow at three and foure per cent use and that as they have more Water then Land nor any Parkes for to squander away their monies on wild Deeres nor doe they marry unto Lords Sons or Ladyes Daughters for that they say Sort by Sort they therefore imploy all their monies upon Traffick which they pursue with the more eagernesse all which considered I would faine know by what meanes you intend to put them out of their Trade or hinder them to buy and sell Commodities at better Rates then the English can buy them in those parts where they grow Capt. I doe perceive by thy discourse that thou hast mainly studyed this Case Merch. I say nothing but what experience prompts me unto whereby it may also be made good how that the sole meanes whereby the English Traffick may be encreased is to pitch upon such beneficiciall establishments as are mentioned in the first part of the Sea-Cabbin Dialogue for that by them monies will be reduced to a lower value and for the want whereof the English will never be able to buy and sell at such easie Rates as the Hollanders do Capt. Me thinkes thou speakest of particulars which are mentioned in the first part of the Sea-Cabbin Dialogue so likewise did I heare of other relations concerning those advantages which wise Statists have ever found in the imposing of small Taxes on the importation and exportation of Merchandizes when as the Merchants doe not so much as thinke on the defrauding of the customes nor on the deceiving of each other by their sundry falsifications of Wares Merch. Hereon I must needs tell you how that the bare Animosity and selfe-Interessedness of some persons have oftentimes caused an interruption in the good correspondency between Nations As for instance The breach betweene Henry the seventh and Charles Duke of Burgundy with the Emperour Charls the fifth between Queene Elizabeth and Phillip the second as also those with Spaine and France in the late Kings time when as at length after the severall Nations and Parties had sufferd by the like interruptions it was found requisite to order things againe at any Rate and thus defective and disadvantagious Treaties were patcht up Capt. But I pray you what is that which is whispered among curious men touching severall particulars which are contained in a Remonstrance and the which hath of late been proffered to the Parliament wherein the Author saith that in case there be not any reflection made on his proffers he as then remaines a free man borne and in this states regards a second Colomba The foregoing lines of which conclusion makes mention of one Kelly in Queen Elizabeths dayes who to the knowledge of severall persons of credit in those dayes especially old Mr. Challoner had the secret of producing of gold and for the which all the world sought unto him Now truly my selfe have been on some nooks and parts of the golden World where I heard that there are certaine particular men who Trade in Gold and bring it in lumps to the Spaniards though they will not discover unto them how they come by it and its thought that they have some particular mystery therein nay even an Art of Production And if I be not deceived I was also told hereof in the same leafe of the said Remonstrance it is said that the Proponants secrets are of another guess extent and value then those whereon Sir Water Rawley and Captaine Cavendish had fixt their designes So likewise heard I another Captaine say that to his knowledg they were of another guess nature then Sir William Wallers late designe Now in case this be so why should we not looke after it for if wee should not fall foule with the Hollanders or with any other Nations as the French who are already together by the Eares why should we as then be so neglectful of our owne good as to suffer any other Nation to bereave us of such an advantage and take it away even before our Noses Besides are there not many Cavaleers abroad who are able to scrape such a stock together as may well serve for so ordinary an equipage towards the effecting of the same and whereof the Proponant speakes Merch. Truly as for my part I conceive that some ill informed
person may thinke that a Reply approving of what you say might savour of an Act to take off the edge of your first fury against the Hollanders But as for my selfe I doe speake sincerely and really as I meane and as I believe and therefore I answer you thus in generall termes That the safest Maximes which this state may put in practise are to procure unto the English Nation all the possible advantages that may be especially towards the attaining unto all Christians glorious and profitable goods And whereas many of us do conceive that the Parliament reflects on providence so do many of us believe that the Officers of their Armies especially their Generall the Lord Cromwell intend the same not that he reflects on that which Almanack-makers and other such like Pamphet-writers set forth How that the Pope shall be pulled out of his Seat by him by reason of a Lyon which he bears in his Arms But that the true Lyon of Judah is he who shall pull all those out of their Seats who doe possesse them on false grounds Now in case heaven hath Decreed that this shall be effected in these dayes and by a secondary means viz. The Parliament of Englands happy Genius although there were no such thing in his Arms as a Lyon It might questionlesse be encompassed without the influence of the Stars and allusions of Almanack-makers For that the Lord hath a regard unto the intentions of men Cains sacrifice was one as well as Abels although not accepted of and it s moreover said My son give me thy heart c. Now for as much as concerns the other particular which you hinted at Truly this is my opinion thereon That it would be a farr wiser part to minde such like Christian glorious and beneficiall atcheivements as you speak off waving the enraged humour of shedding of blood and setting of the very Seas on fire whereby we should but give the Devil an advantage over us and would he not thereby have handsomly compassed his own ends Capt. Thou sayest very well and I doe also remember that my friend who acquainted me with the Contents of the aforesaid Remonstrance unto the Parliament told me how that the great Favourite the late Duke of Buckingham had fixt his minde on that secret designe when as he intended his second Voyage towards Rotchel to which intent he had by a Treaty with the late King of Sweden Gustavus Adolphus put himself under the said Kings protection Mer. Why truly as now you doe awaken my memory thereon for that I call to minde certain overtures which were once made by one Master Fourbisher unto the said King Capt. Which mean you Those which were invented by a Scot one Sir Thomas Dishington who by a Wit of this Nation was usually tearmed a mouldy Turd the same who when he was in France under the pretence of being a Scotch Intelligencer though he could scarce Marshal up ten words of sense together served the French as a spye Mer. The same the same 't is he himself Cap. I marry that Dreamer vented a world of Chymera's concerning one Seignior Pedro who had been his fellow prisoner in the Bastile at Paris and who as Sr. Thomas pretends had left his wife and children in a place where gold did grow as rise as grasse and where as the supposer said the sunne had solidated a vein of massiff gold as thick as a mans thigh which like a Bracelet about a Ladies neck did surround a hill in Cicily neere unto the Town of Palerma Mer. Why this is a meer Chymera indeed this was a meer deviding la pela de l'orsso the skin of a Bear yet untaken but suppose such a thing were what a number of Pick-axes and Mattoks would there not be requisite to dig up that golden branch After which I pray you how should it be gotten thence unlesse a man could by some mysticall conjuration or by the strength of his faith remove that same Mountaine However had Gustavus had as much faith as a graine of Mustard-seed he would have removed the said Dishington from England and caused him to be hanged at Stock-holm after the many favours he had conferred on him whereof the late Duke Hamilton and severall other eminent persons of the English Nation being witnesses did admire but at length the said King found himselfe to be cheated by the said Sir Tho. who had no less then fifteen thousand Dollers given him by the said King for the discovery of his pretended secret as Mr. Ailsberry the Minister of the English Church at Hamborough full well knoweth Freez And must I all this while keepe my peace wrapt up in a Coat at which you have so much carpt O yea wise men of Gotam could not you all this while procure unto your selves the discovery of that secret which a Spanish second Anthonio Peres manifested to the Duke of Buckingham that white faced man whom the Spaniards conceived to be the person with gray Eyes and of whom the Indians that can make Gold by their secret way of production believe a prophecie viz. How that there shall come amongst them a Nation with Flaxen haire white faces and grey Eyes who shall enjoy Kellies secret at which time the leaves of the Trees in that Land shall be as Gold And these are the words in that Remonstrance which you speake of Sirra Captain Moreover I can tell you now that the Spaniard who revealed the said secret unto the Duke of Buckingham was for his paines poysoned by the King of Spaines black Fovourite And to the end that ye may heare see and know I can speake of other guess things besides greene Cheese and Freeze-landers Mares know you also sirra Captain that it is but too manifest that in former ages there were Seekers as well as in this but which of the two were the wisest Seekers there is the question So likewise are there sundry propounders some will goe about to Cozen and others that mean well let me tell you that if so be Sir Water Rawley Cavendish and Sir William Waller had not been interrupted they might have found But as for such a Seeker as Disshington was he might have sought to all eternity and as then be as far to seek as ever for he that holds not Lands in Capite and he as the Italian saith that hath there Camera Locante will be far to seek although he should have Parret-like learned a speech to fore-stall the glorious advantages of making towards such maine ones for to make that sure and for to transporr Colonyes thither to which purpose fine things are invented to amuse people withall especially such as will be Cozened according unto the saying volenti non fit injuria for that such things are easily swallowed if so be they are finely gilded Disshington he aimed at a designe to intrap some great persons on a pretence to transport a Colonie but the question is whether he had so much honestie and