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A17036 An ansvvere to Master Cartvvright his letter for ioyning with the English Churches: whereunto the true copie of his sayde letter is annexed. Browne, Robert, ca. 1550-1633.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603.; Harrison, Robert, d. 1585?, attributed name. 1585 (1585) STC 3909; ESTC S109433 77,571 102

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those that turne from iniquitie in Iacob As againe it is written Walke before me and be thou vpright and I will make my couenant betweene me and thee As who say one condition and part of the couenant is our vpright and good profession So likewise in Ieremie and Exodus the promise of obedience in the people is set downe as one part of the couenant Obey my voyce and doe according to all these thinges which I commande you so shall you be my people and I will be your god or else cursed be the man that obeyeth not the wordes of this couenant For on this condition will the Lorde receiue vs as Paul reasoneth if we come out from among the wicked and separate our selues Then will I be a Father vnto you and ye shall be my sonnes and daughters saith the Lorde Almightie Thus shoulde Master Cartwright haue conferred place with place and haue knowen that the worde is no couenant where the practise thereof is reiected and troden vnder foote neither can men say they haue the couenant of the spirite when open and grosse wickednesse so reigneth in them that there is no power of the spirite to redresse it but it remaineth incurable And so Paul reasoneth that as many as are led by the spirit of god they are the sonnes of god but he sheweth that they are in the state of condemnation and not in Christ Iesus if they walke after the flesh and not after the spirite For there is not the couenant of the spirite where we are not turned from iniquitie as Isaiah him selfe witnesseth and let Zecharie interprete Isaiah whose sheweth what spirite God will powre vpon his house and people namely The spirit of grace and compassion vnto repentance and mourning for their sinnes Likewise Ezechiel doeth giue the proofe and tryall of that newe spirit and newe heart which God woulde put in his people namely this That they should walke in his statutes and keepe his iudgements and execute them and so doing they shall be his people and he woulde be their god Wherefore let not Master Cartwright account so much of the word in their mouthes except as it is written in Deut. it be in their mouthes and in their heartes for to doe it Otherwise Christ wil pronounce of them that in vaine they worship the Lord and so are they false worshippers for god is neere in their mouthes and farre from their reignes They drawe neere vnto god with their mouthes and honour him with their lippes but their heart is far off from him Surely such men are not those burning lampes neither the goldē candlesticks he speaketh of but rather as those that will seeke me daily saith the Lord euen as a nation that did righteously and had not forsaken the statutes of their god they aske of me ordinances of iustice they will drawe neere vnto me Yet in the next chapter the Lord witnesseth that there was a great separation betwene him and them so that he was to make a newe couenant with them and they were to turne from their former iniquities or else they could not be his people and Church And therefore when Christ appointeth the Apostles to plant churches throughout the world he appointeth them not to talke of and professe the word in their mouthes onely but he giueth in charge these three things as being the chiefe marks of a planted Church namely preaching the word ministration of the sacramēts reformation of life which is the chiefest thing of all to set forth his Church kingdom for he commādeth to preach and baptize because preaching baptizing is nothing without amendmēt of life he addeth these words teaching thē to obserue do all things whatsoeuer I haue cōmanded you Therfore as appeareth in the acts of the Apostles was neither the church nor the couenāts of the Church established among any but where their good godly profession was shewed and the contrary refused I know M. C. will gainsay that there must needes be hypocrites in euery church sometimes also open breach of gods commandements It is true indeede But yet if any make an open and grosse breach then Paul hath written vnto vs that we company not together with such For if any saith he that is called a brother be a fornicator or couetous or an idolater or a railor or a drunkard or an extortioner c. with such a one eate not The aduersaries replie to this that in deede to eat common bread with such or to partake with them in the feastes of charitie was forbidden which distinction and shift they alleadge out of Caluin But who dare say that the godly wife may not eate cōmon bread with her excōmunicate husband or the godly children with their wicked parents or seruants with their masters For otherwise al seruice ministery communiō in a common wealth should be ouerthrowen And so as Paul reasoneth the godly shuld not be able to liue in the world Who also dare say that when the church held their feasts of charitie they might forbid wicked persons to partake with them in the feastes and yet suffer them to partake in the Lordes-table Nay they kept their feastes and the Lordes Supper together And hereupon Paul gaue this distinction that they should suffer none but bre●hrē to ioyne with them in the holy feastes or in the assemblyes which were for ministration of the Lordes Supper but if we will not eate and drinke with sinners in the worlde we must goe out of the worlde Wherefore there is an eating with wretches in the worlde or in worldly meetings and feastings which is forbidden in the Church meetings As if a brother being separate and fallen away should in an Inne or vitailing house sit downe at the table to eate after we and others were set it were vnlawfull to rise from the table because of him yea it were both against common charitie and humanitie and also against the peace communion of a common wealth But of this matter it followeth to speake afterwardes We haste one to others proofes An other proofe is as though it were graunted him that where a preaching minister is there is a Church nay we know that assemblyes of papistes haue preaching ministers and yet are not the church of God And though they be Protestants which haue a Preacher ouer them yet if he for his wickednesse cease to be a brother and they also for their wickednesse be no brethren the preaching Minister can not cause them to bee a Church of God This is manifest before and shall partly also afterwarde be spoken of wherefore I let it passe As for that he saith of some knowledge receiued by a dumbe ministerie and of faith receiued by some further Ministerie it is much like the same tryfling proofe he vsed before and is answered alreadie For we said that the inward faith will not iustifie
the name of God figured the visible Church of god so that this matter toucheth M. C. very neerely For if it be true that as all sacrifices then so all sacraments now are rebellion against the Lord being ministred without the visible Church of God then that sinne which he calleth a fault shalbe found to be more then a fault euen rebellion falling away from the Lord. And this is a sinne of execration euen abomination in the eies of the Lord to measure the visible church of god by a compasse of ground by a nūber of housholdes by slint of tythes tenthes as we see in our parishes For the place maketh not the church neither is the church or true religiō to be measured by the place as Christ him selfe teacheth vs for neither in the mountaine where the father worshipped neither yet at Ierusale the citie of god was God any more to be worshipped but the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit truth By which words Christ meaneth thus much first that the spirit trueth being shewed by the outward good profession declare the outwarde Church of God and not the places neither temples nor cities nor parishes For in whome we see the spirit that is the graces of the spitit by their outward good works and the trueth that is the lawes and word of Christ which is true to be kept obserued them only we must call the Church of God And therefore in Isaiah it was shewed before● that with those only which turne from iniquitie in Iacob will the Lord make his couenant euen his spirite which is vpon them and his words which he hath put in their mouth Secondly by those wordes Christ teacheth that al the Iewish ceremonies shuld be abolished because the chiefest euen Ierusalem and the Temple should be no more For the temple at Ierusalem circumcision were the chiefest How great the citie and the Temple were it appeareth by that prayer of Salomon 1. Kinges 8. 29. And by sundry other places Deuteronom 12. 11. Ierem. 3. 17. Ezek. 43. 7. c. And of circumcision Paul reasoneth with the Galatians That if they be circumcised they are bounde to keepe the whole ceremoniall lawe for it being one of the chiefest ceremonies if they still obserued it they should also obserue all the rest but if they reiected the chiefest they should also reiect all the rest And to that ende Christ reasoneth that seeing all things are nowe to be verified in spirit and trueth therefore all ceremoniall and superstitious worship shoulde cease As also Paul reasoneth That if they be led by the spirit they are not vnder the ceremonies of the lawe So then it appeareth that tithings because they were ceremonies belong not to the Church And because such abomination is committed by them namely the due planting and gathering of the church is hindred and the libertie of the Church for remouing euil ministers stopped they are euen the execrable things which Achan did steale For if the common wealth as it ought had long agoe taken from the ministerie those tenthes and Popish liuings then Iericho being once destroyed I meane the Antichristian churches once put downe had not so soone bene built againe but nowe such tythings benefices and Bishoprickes remaining they haue builded by them an other Iericho in steade of the first in deede somewhat differing from the first but as contrary to Gods church and holy citie as was the first yea and Master Cartwright also wil iustifie that execrable stealth of Achan and call Iericho I meane those woefull assemblies and Parishes the visible church and citie of God But cursed be the man before the Lord saith Ioshua that riseth vp and buildeth againe this citie Iericho he shall lay the foundation thereof in his eldest sonne in his yongest sonne shall he set vp the gates of it Satan is that enuious and malitious man which hath builded againe this citie his eldest sonnes were the first beginners of this lamentable state whome God did afterwarde scourge and cal to repentance in the time of Queene Marie and brake their enterprise and his youngest sonnes are these latter reformers whome God also will certainely plague except they repēt But to come againe to Master Cartwrights proofe let him not say that we count any assembly whether they haue a dumbe minister o● haue none to be the outwarde Churches of God except they keepe the couenant by the outwarde discipline and gouernement of the Church Further Master Cartwright saith that in such assemblyes the dumbe minister is not chiefe but Christ and that wee make nothing of the dumbe minister and yet will needes haue him to be the head of those Churches Indeede we make nothing of him concerning any goodnes that is by him for he helpeth nothing thereto but concerning the mischiefe and hurt which he doeth or the sinne that is by him let him not say wee make nothing of it For if they be beastes as it is written so that by their want of vnderstanding and conscience the flockes of the pastour be scattered and perish shall we say it is nothing If they be those foolish shepheardes whome the Lorde saith by Zecharie he will raise vp in iudgement to sell and to slay the sheepe to eate the flesh of the fat and to teare them in pieces which also shall not looke for them that are lost nor seeke the tender lambes nor heale that is hurt nor feede them but rather feede them selues vpon their flesh shall we make nothing of such ministers But go to he sayeth that Christ is the head of those assemblyes and not the dumbe ministers That Christ is their head or foūdation he can not prooue as was shewed before wherefore for any thing he can prooue the dumbe ministers in the absence of the Bishops and their officers are the chiefe and heades ouer them That they are alwayes chiefe we saide it not for when the Bishoppes which are greater vsurpers are present then they are heades and both the dumbe ministers and hireling preachers may serue well ynough to bee the tayle For Satan hath all wayes by such as by the taile of the dragon drawing the third part of the starres of heauen and cast them to the earth What shall we vnderstande by heauen but the shewe of the church as it were set in heauen by the starres but the children of the church falling to wickednes and loosing their light Such are the people of those assemblies whom Satan hath cast vpon the earth as starres ●out light He bringeth another proofe by Corah and his company For they saith he were not cast foorth of the lords host by Moses therefore should not these assemblyes also which haue a dumbe minister thrust vpon them be reputed for runnegates from the Lorde well let vs see was not in deede Corah with those that claue to him put apart from the hoste
to bid them God speede And howe then shall we take them for our guydes and pastours in the Church or say Amen to their prayers And here followeth that vntrueth to be refuted which he addeth in these wordes that the true Prophets are neuer founde to haue forbidden the people to come to the sacrifice of the false prophets and of the priestes that were dumbe dogges neither to bring their sacrifices vnto them First euen that place of blinde watchmen and dumbe dogs which hee quoteth amisse is against him selfe For there was a Lawe that the priestes being vn●●tane they might neither touch nor eat of the holy things if they did then those thinges were polluted Nowe to drinke wine or strong drinke was a pollution both of the Nazarites and Priestes of the Priestes I say when they came into the Tabernacle of the congregation to offer sacrifice Howe then shoulde the people partake in the Sacrifices with Priestes that were common drunkardes For the people are commaunded not to touche any vncleane thing and therefore those sacrifices being vncleane howe shoulde the people haue any thing to doe with them Nowe suche drunkards were those dumbe dogges which hee nameth as is there mencioned they were greedie dogges which sayde Come I will bring wine and we will fill our selues with strong drinke and to morowe shall be as this day and much more abundant Wherefore being such howe coulde they put difference as it is commaunded in Leuiticus Betweene the holy and the vnholy and betweene the cleane and the vncleane And howe then shoulde not all their sacrifices be polluted There be maplaces which shewe that the priestes polluted them selues and the holy thinges as in Ezekiel Her priestes desile myne holy thinges they put no difference betweene the holy and prophane neither discerne betweene the vncleane and the cleane and in Hagga● that which they offer here is vncleane and in Malachie Ye offer vncteane bread vpon mine altar c. Also in sundry places as is quoted before commaundement is giuen not to touch any vncleane thing Wherefore it is a flat commandement euen to all the people not to touche those polluted sacrifices of the Priestes not to communicate nor partake with them therein Therefore in his own place quoted out of Isaiah is that terrible iudgement pronounced both against priestes and against peeople though onely the sinne of the priestes or watchemen is named The wordes are these All yee beastes of the fielde come to deuorr euen all ye beastes of the forest And then followe these wordes their watchemen are all blinde c. as who say that the people because they did partake with such watchemen they shoulde also perish with them If Ma-ster Cartwright say the pollutions we speake of were by Idolatrie let him knowe that Malachie spake to those which were no Idolaters which also had a generall reformation from Idolatrie Likewise Haggai prophecied in a time of reformation and spake to those which were no Idolaters And Ezekiel in that Chapter mentioneth no Idolatrie but rebuketh other wickednesse as it were seuering it from Idolatrie For in the next Chapter he toucheth their sinne of Idolatrie more particularly And to those that accounted so much of the Temple and of the sacrifices as Master Cartwright doeth of his Churches and Sacraments Isaiah saith thus The heauen is my throne saith the Lord and the earth is my footestoole and so he proceedeth to rebuke their vaine bragge of the Temple and then commeth to their sacrifices saying He that killeth a bullocke is as if he slewe a man he that sacrificeth a sheepe as if he cut off a dogges necke he that offereth an oblation as if he offered swynes blood he that remembreth incense as if he blessed an Idol by which wordes it is plaine that he rebuketh euen those that detested Idoles and swynes blood c. and telleth them that their sacraments are no sacraments they are vncleane and polluted as the most vile filthinesse which they themselues abhorred If he say that yet to the godly in those dayes the sacrifices were lawfull and good I aunswere that the godly had uo medling with such wicked men nor with their sacrifices For in the seconde verse after hee speaketh thus to the godly Heare the worde of the Lorde all ye that tremble at his worde your brethren that hated you and cast you out for my Names sake sayde let the Lorde be glorified but hee shall appeare to your ioye and they shall bee ashamed So then there was a great separation betweene the righteous and the wicked in those dayes in so much that the righteous forsooke all fellowshippe in their sacrifices and the wicked cast them out from among them If Master Cartwright say that the righteous forsooke not their sacrifices but were cast out from them it is answered in another place That while they refrained from euill they made them selues a pray to the wicked So then the cause why they were cast out was because they woulde not partake with the wicked in their wickednesse If Master Cartwright saye that that was for other wickednesse but not for their refusing to partake in the sacrifices It is said in Samuel That for the wickednesse of the priests men abhorred the sacrifices If he say againe that they did euill to abhorre thē he can not prooue it it is euident that they were of the better sorte that did so For in Malache it is written that they which feared the Lorde spake euery one to his neighbour cōcerning the abuses and wickednes of those dayes and the Lord sheweth the badge and marke of all his flocke and people namely that they should returne discerne betwene the righteous and the wicked betweene him that serueth God and him that serueth him not As who say that euery one of the righteous had libertie and were commaunded to haue no communion with the wicked in the Churche and howe then shoulde they be ioyned with them in the neerest communion namely in the Sacramentes And in the same Chapter it is prophecied That the offeringes of Iudah and Ieerusalem shoulde bee acceptable to the Lorde as in the olde ●yme aud in the yeeres afore and that was when the sonnes of Leui which figured all the righteous shoulde bring offeringes vnto the Lorde in righteousnesse For he shewed in the Chapters before that while open and grosse wickednesse was incurable among them both the priestes and Leuites brake the couenant and also the people the offerings were no more regarded neither receiued acceptably at their hands As for the sacrisices of Elkanah and his wiues they were offered by the ministerie of Eli as appeareth in that place and not by his wicked sonnes Nowe Elie was rather negligent in correcting his sonnes then a grosse transgressour and therefore might Elkanah the rather partake in the sacrifices with him But wee