Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

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lord_n	daughter_n	father_n	son_n	10,765	5	4.8829	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A01730	A plaine declaration that our Brownists be full Donatists by comparing them together from point to point out of the writings of Augustine. Also a replie to Master Greenwood touching read prayer, wherein his grosse ignorance is detected, which labouring to purge himselfe from former absurdities, doth plunge himselfe deeper into the mire. By George Gyffard minister of Gods word in Maldon.	Gifford, George, d. 1620.	1590 (1590)	STC 11862; ESTC S118453	101,969	166

communicate with them are polluted and cast away or reade the bookes and writings of theirs which are spread marke well the sentences and places of Scripture which they alleage and quote and what reasons they drawe out of them and then looke vpon these For I will note the chiefe Testimonies of holy Scripture that the Donatists did alleage to proue that all Churches were polluted by the mixture of open sinners and that a separation was commaunded by God from such assemblies which are these Come out from among them saieth the Lord and touch no vncleane thing and I will receaue yee and I will be your Father and you shall be my Sonnes and my Daughters saith the Lord God Almightie 2. Cor. 6. Haue no fellowship with the vnfruitefull workes of darkenes but rather reprooue them Ephes 5. Bee not partakers of other mens sinnes 1. Tim. 5. A little leauen dooth leauen the whole lumpe and take away the euill from among yee 1. Cor. 5. Ifanie which is called a Brother be a Fornicator an I dolater or couetous c. with such see that yee eate not 1. Cor. 5. What hath the Chaffe to doo with the Corne Ierem. 23. Also depart depart come out from thence and touch no vncleane thing come out from the middest thereof and seperate your selues yee that beare the vessels of the Lord. I say 52. All these and some other did Parmenian the Donatist Bishop alleage in his Epistle Wee may not thinke that these Scriptures were alleaged onely by some one Donatist for Augustine in his booke De vnico Baptismo against Petilian Chapter 14. saith Magis enim solent in ore habere quando peccatis aliorum alios criminantur ad excusandum nefas separationis suae videbas furem concurrebas cum eo c. For they are wont rather to haue in their mouth when they accuse some to be guiltie or polluted by the sinnes of other to excuse their wicked seperation Thou sawest a theefe and diddest run with him Psal 50. And be not partakers of other mens sinnes depart and come out from thence touch no vncleane thing he that shal touch that which is vncleane shal be poluted and a little leauen dooth leauen the whole lump and other such like Now what the estate of the question was and how they held men polluted if they did not seperate themselues the disputation betweene the Catholique Bishops and the Donatists which were assembled at the cōmaundement of the Emperour dooth shew Where the names of the Donatist Bishops that had subscribed their consent to that conference were two hundreth seauentie and nine but some of them were not there Thus Augustine reporteth their words in the conference of the third day Chapter 4. Quia in eo quod dicebant diuinis testimonijs velut astruebant non esse malos in ecclesia tolerandos sed ab eis recedendum propter contagium peccatorum Itase dicere demonstrabant vt tamen ignoratis peccatis alienis neminem maculari posse faterentur Because euen in that which they saide and which they did as it were confirme by the Scriptures that the euil are not to be tolerate in the Church but wee must depart from them for feare of the contagion of their sins they shewed that they spake it to be vnderstoode thus that neuerthelesse they confessed that no man could be spotted with other mens sinnes which are secret In this conference the Donatist Bishops stoode vpon this that the Lord saith of the Church Esay 52. There shall no vncircumcised or vncleane passe through thee anie more And vpō that which is writtē by the Prophet Hag chap. 2. Ask the Preests concerning the Lawe If a man carrie holie flesh in the lappe of his garment and the lappe of his garment shall touch the bread c. Shall he bee sanctified The Priests answered no. Then if a man that is vncleane touch any of those things shall it not bee vncleane The Priestes answer it shall bee vncleane So is this people and so is this Nation before me saith the Lord and so is the whole work of their hands yea that which they haue offered there hath been vncleane Stay now and see whether the very same Scriptures bee not in the mouthes of the common sort of the Brownists and whether the writings of the chiefe Brownists bee not euerie where spatred with the quotations of them And to proue the same thing which the Donatists held and maintained by them namelie that such as communicate with open sinners are polluted by their sinnes and therefore they separate themselues But that this agreement betweene them may yet more fully appeare I will proceed further and shewe how these matters were discussed For otherwise it maye bee some man will imagine that the auncient Fathers might defend the Churches against those allegations of the Donatists after such a sort as wee canne not truly defende ours at this day Whereas therefore it was by the Donatists vrged depart depart come out from among them seperate your selues touch no vncleane thing c. the answere was by the Pastors of the Churches that this seperation was not to bee made in bodie when the Church is pestered with open sinners but in heart and not consenting in minde vnto the sins openly committed by those with whom they did communicate in the Church These be the wordes of Augustine against Parmenian in the second booke Chapt. 18. Qua verba isti carnaliter sentientes per tot diuisiones seipsos minutatim in ipsa vna Aphrica conciderunt Non enim intelligunt neminem coniungi cum infidelibus nisi qui facit peccata Paganorum vel talia facientibus fauet Nec quenquam fieri participem iniquitatis nisi qui iniqua vel agit vel approbat Quis autem communicat tenebris nisi qui per tenebras consentionis suae dimisso Christo sequitur Belial quis ponit cum infidelibus partem suam nisi qui eius infidelitatis fit particeps Ita enim templum dei esse desinit nec se aliter simulachris adiungit Qui autem sunt templum dei viui in medio nationis tortuosae ac peruersae apparent sicut luminaria in mundo verbum vitae habentes nihil eos quod pro vnitate tolerant inficit nec angustiantur quia in illis habitat deambulat deus exeunt de medio malorum atque separātur interim corde ne forté cum id facere per seditionem Schismatis volūt prius a bonis spiritualiter quam a malis corporaliter separentur That is to say which words they vndetstanding carnally for he had before repeated their allegation Come out from among them and touch no vncleane thing they haue cut themselues by morsels into so many diuisiōs in that one Aphrica for they doe not vnderstand that no man is ioyned with Infidels but he that doth commit the sinnes of the Pagans or else doth fauour those that doe such things neither that any

negociationis quaestuosae nundinas aucupari Esurientibus in ecclesia fratribus habere argentum largiter velle fundos insidiosis fraudibus rapere vsuris multiplicantibus foenus augere That is very many Bishops which ought to bee an ornament and an example vnto other men despising the deuine cure became factors in worldly matters leauing the chaire forsaking the people wandring through other Prouinces did hunt after faires or markets of gainefull trafficke The brethren hungring in the Church they had siluer in great plentie they would in rauening manner get lands by subtill fraud increase their gaine with vsurie What shall we say did this holie Cyprian falselie accuse the Churches of his time in laying these greeuous crimes to the charge both of the Pastors and the people Doubtles he spake the trueth It will be demaunded whether Cyprian and the rest of the godlie did worship together with those open sinners ioyning with them in praier receiuing the Sacraments We see it is manifest they did for he describeth not the heathen or such as had been cast foorth of the Church but such as God sent chasticement vpon to raise vp the faith which was almost as he saith a sleepe He doth also testifie in plaine wordes that the godlie could not separate themselues from the Church because of such open sinners without proud obstinacie and sacrilegious presumption He speaketh vpon this occasion there were certaine which had suffered imprisonment for the Gospell among whom was one Maximus an Elder and certaine brethren which when they came out of prison separated themselues from the Church taking offence at the open sinners which were not cast foorth as it appeareth by the words of Cyprian For hauing testified his gladnes y t they had forsaken their schisme and did returne againe into the Church he addeth Nam etsi videntur in ecclesia esse zizania non tamen impediri debet aut fides aut charit as nostra vt quoniam zizania esse in ecclesia semper cernimus ipsi de ecclesia recedamus Nobis tantummodo laborandum est vt frumentum esse possimus vt cum caperit frumentum dominicis horreis condi fructum pro opere nostro labore capiamus That is Although there bee tares seene to be in the Church yet neither our faith nor our charitie ought to be hindered that because wee alwaies perceiue tares to be in the Church wee our selues should goe out of the Church wee must onely labour that we may bee corne that when the corne shall begin to belayd vp in the Lords barnes wee may receiue fruit for our work labour Then further he addeth Apostolus in Epistola sua dicit in domo autem magna non solū vasa sunt aurea argentea sed lignea fictilia et quaedā quidē honorata quaedā vero inhonorata nos operā demus quantum possumus laboremus vt vas aureū vel argenteū simus The Apostle his Epistle saith but in a great house there are not onely vessels of gold and siluer but also of wood and earth and some vnto honour and some vnto dishonour let vs doo our endeuour and labour what we can that wee may be vessels of gold or at least of siluer Finallie he saith Caeterum fictilia vasa confringere domino soli concessum est cui virga ferrea data est Esse non potest maior domino suo seruus nec quisquam sibi quod soli filio pater tribuit vendicarit vt se putet vniuersa posse zizania humano iudicio segregare superba est ista obstinatio sacrilega presumptio quam sibi furor prauus adsumit dum sibi semper quidam plus quam mitis iusticia deposcit assumunt de ecclesia pereunt dum se insolenter extollunt ipso suo tumore caecati veritatis lumen amittunt But it is graunted onely to the Lord to breake the earthen vessels to whom also the yron mace is giuen The seruant cannot be greater than his Lord neither shall any challenge that to himselfe which the father hath giuen to the sonne alone that he should think he can by humane iudgement seuer all the tares That is a proud obstinacie and sacrilegious presumption which wicked furie doth take to it selfe And while some doo alwaies take more vpon them than meeke iustice dooth require they perish out of the Church and while they insolentlie extoll themselues being blinded with that very swelling of theirs they lose the light of the trueth What can be more manifest than these testimonies which shewe that there were greeuous open sinnes committed by multitudes in the Church not onely of the common sort but euen of the teachers We see they did communicate together as in the old Church vnder the law heapes of notorious wicked men did flock vnto the Temple and worship at the same Altar and Sacrifices with the godlie Hierom in his Epistle to Paulinus sheweth there were many of all sorts both men and women which did presumptuouslie ignorantlie with baine glorie prattle of the scriptures and so abuse the bolie word of God And in the Ministrie there were that had stepped from seculer learning to deale with the Scriptures which being able to rowle out words thought they made goodlie sermons Therefore if the Donatists had but complained that there were multitudes of open sinners in the Church as proude couetous hatefull persons irreligious and prophane abusers of the Scriptures and not only of the common sort but also of the teachers their complaint had béen true But when they proceeded thus That all that did communicate with any such open sinners were polluted by them and fell from God and so termed all the Pastors wicked traitors and Iudasses wretches whose worship and praiers were abominable and all the people that ioyned with them prophane and heathen therein they became false accusers and wicked coudemners they did with most intollerable pride and sacrilegious treacherie publish a diuorse betweene Christ and his spouse The Brownists offend in the same degree in accusing condemning and casting foorth the Churches of Christ affirming that by open sinners admitted to the Lords table all are fallen from the couenant of grace haue no true Sacraments nor Church but are as an heape of polluted heathen whose worship and praiers are abominable Now that it may appeare vnto euery one that will not shut his eyes that in this point our Brownists I speake of the Capitaines are full Donatists I wilenter into the particular discourses and shew vpon what Scriptures they stood and with what arguments they maintained this their wicked hereticall opinion And what answere they receaued from the holieseruants of God the pastors of the Churches Wherein I desire the reader to obserue whether there may be found one haire breadth of difference between them talke with the Brownists about this point which they hold that where open sinners are admitted to the participation of the Sacraments all which