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lord_n cross_n cruel_a great_a 67 3 2.1278 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A20517 A reply to M. Nicholas Smith, his discussion, of some pointes of M. Doctour Kellison his treatise of the hierarchie. By a divine Divine.; Lechmere, Edmund, d. 1640?; Kellison, Matthew. 1630 (1630) STC 6929; ESTC S109712 163,687 351

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he_o s._n hierome_n wish_v it_o may_v be_v far_o from_o hin_a to_o speak_v evillie_o of_o priest_n who_o succeed_v to_o the_o apostolical_a degree_n do_v consecrate_v with_o their_o own_o wouth_n the_o body_n of_o christ_n by_o who_o we_o be_v christian_n who_o have_v in_o their_o custody_n the_o key_n of_o heaven_n do_v judge_n we_o in_o a_o manner_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n as_o if_o he_o shall_v have_v say_v eos_fw-la quorun_v gradus_fw-la tanta_fw-la est_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la dignitatis_fw-la quorum_fw-la of_o sicium_fw-la tantae_fw-la est_fw-la sanctitatis_fw-la non_fw-la audeo_fw-la inseriores_fw-la monachis_fw-la iudicare_fw-la quamuis_fw-la eos_fw-la vidcan_n in_o or_o whibus_fw-la habitare_fw-la etc._n etc._n those_o who_o degree_n be_v of_o such_o dignity_n in_o the_o church_n who_o office_n be_v of_o so_o great_a sanctity_n i_o dare_v not_o judge_v inferior_a to_o monk_n although_o i_o see_v they_o dwell_v in_o city_n but_o other_o be_v say_v s._n hierom_n 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constitute_v also_o ad_fw-la beneplacitum_fw-la papae_fw-la and_o yet_o as_o we_o have_v prove_v out_o of_o sylvester_n and_o the_o canon_n law_n he_o be_v ordinary_a and_o so_o it_o will_v be_v hard_a fellow_v the_o opinion_n of_o these_o auctour_n for_o i_o will_v say_v nothing_o of_o myself_o but_o refer_v the_o determination_n of_o this_o to_o superior_n for_o m._n nicholas_n to_o exclude_v my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n from_o be_v a_o ordinary_a by_o commission_n or_o delegation_n if_o this_o anger_n m._n nicholas_n let_v he_o blame_v himself_o for_o that_o i_o will_v not_o have_v touch_v this_o point_n if_o he_o have_v not_o provoke_v i_o in_o his_o four_o number_n he_o tax_v m._n doctor_n for_o allege_v s._n ambrose_n 1_o tim._n 3._o the_o book_n be_v doubtful_a but_o m._n doctor_n have_v allege_v other_o proof_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o bishop_n have_v a_o high_a rank_n in_o the_o church_n than_o the_o priest_n and_o writer_n use_v to_o allege_v diverse_a book_n of_o father_n which_o yet_o be_v doubt_v of_o by_o some_o this_o m._n nicholas_n may_v have_v overpass_o m._n nicholas_n here_o nu_fw-la 14._o he_o teach_v that_o catholic_n ought_v to_o contribute_v maintenance_n to_o my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n n._n 5._o the_o reply_n this_o m._n nicholas_n shall_v not_o have_v object_v 16._o m._n nicholas_n make_v m._n doctor_n a_o beggar_n for_o my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n maintenance_n wherein_o he_o show_v little_a respect_n to_o my_o lord_n m._n doctor_n only_o allege_v s._n paul_n 5._o 1._o ti._n 5._o to_o prove_v that_o priest_n or_o bishop_n who_o rule_v well_o shall_v be_v esteem_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n that_o be_v not_o only_o of_o the_o honour_n of_o cap_n and_o knee_n but_o also_o of_o honourable_a maintenance_n and_o therefore_o we_o see_v that_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n be_v by_o the_o church_n honourable_o provide_v for_o but_o m._n nicholas_n object_v that_o s._n 5._o s._n th._n 2_o 2.188_o be_v 4_o ad_fw-la 5._o thomas_n say_v that_o the_o people_n be_v not_o bind_v in_o justice_n s._n thomas_n his_o word_n be_v ex_fw-la debito_fw-la iuris_fw-la to_o provide_v for_o the_o expense_n of_o other_o beside_o ordinary_n to_o which_o he_o be_v easy_o answer_v for_o that_o s._n thomas_n suppose_v that_o the_o people_n have_v their_o ordinary_a pastor_n who_o receive_v their_o ordinary_a tithe_n and_o other_o renenewe_n and_o than_o if_o any_o will_v voluntary_o preach_v unto_o they_o they_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o maintain_v they_o but_o when_o there_o be_v no_o ordinary_a pastor_n they_o the_o people_n be_v bind_v to_o give_v they_o competent_a maintenance_n whether_o they_o be_v ordinary_n or_o delegate_n for_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v who_o ever_o play_v the_o soldior_fw-la at_o his_o own_o charge_n who_o plant_v a_o vine_n and_o eat_v not_o of_o the_o fruit_n thereof_o who_o feed_v a_o flock_n and_o eat_v not_o of_o the_o milk_n of_o the_o flock_n and_o as_o in_o the_o same_o place_n he_o say_v if_o we_o have_v sow_v unto_o you_o spiritual_a thing_n be_v it_o a_o great_a matter_n if_o we_o reap_v your_o carnal_a thing_n and_o a_o little_a after_o they_o that_o serve_v the_o altar_n participate_v with_o the_o altar_n so_o also_o our_o lord_n ordain_v for_o they_o that_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o live_v of_o the_o gospel_n 1._o s._n th._n 2.2_o q._n 87._o a._n 1._o and_o s._n thomas_n and_o other_o divine_n affirm_v that_o by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n the_o people_n be_v bind_v to_o give_v in_o general_a necessary_n to_o they_o that_o minister_v unto_o they_o the_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o their_o salvation_n as_o the_o same_o people_n be_v bind_v to_o minister_v necessary_n to_o soldier_n and_o prince_n that_o fight_n for_o they_o or_o have_v care_n of_o their_o common_a wealth_n though_o the_o determinate_a part_n which_o divine_v call_v quota_fw-la and_o which_o in_o the_o old_a law_n be_v the_o ten_o part_n be_v of_o the_o positine_a law_n and_o so_o the_o catholic_n in_o england_n be_v bind_v to_o give_v competent_a mean_n not_o only_o to_o their_o bishop_n but_o also_o to_o their_o priest_n though_o the_o priest_n be_v not_o ordinary_a pastor_n to_o which_o i_o add_v that_o in_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o allege_v auctour_n my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n be_v a_o ordinary_a by_o commission_n where_o as_o m._n nicholas_n n._n 5._o add_v that_o except_o for_o the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n which_o yet_o have_v not_o be_v administer_v to_o many_o and_o which_o also_o may_v be_v commit_v to_o a_o priest_n they_o find_v not_o what_o great_a benefit_n lie_v catholic_n have_v reap_v by_o my_o lord_n bishop_n than_o they_o may_v receive_v from_o secular_a and_o regular_a priest_n that_o rather_o since_o my_o lord_n come_v some_o inconvenience_n have_v happen_v which_o they_o will_v not_o easy_o be_v persuade_v they_o be_v bind_v to_o buy_v with_o money_n that_o they_o can_v take_v much_o comfort_n to_o spare_v from_o their_o own_o necessity_n arise_v from_o daily_a pressure_n for_o the_o maintenance_n of_o agent_n i_o leave_v this_o to_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o judicious_a and_o indifferent_a reader_n whether_o in_o this_o he_o speak_v like_o a_o religious_a man_n yea_o or_o a_o zealous_a catholic_a but_o for_o the_o like_a speech_n to_o this_o he_o be_v a_o little_a take_v up_o above_o pag._n 123._o n._n 38._o 18._o but_o i_o marvel_v that_o m._n nicholas_n shall_v exaggerate_v as_o he_o do_v n._n 5._o the_o charge_n to_o which_o the_o bishop_n and_o clergy_n put_v the_o catholic_n of_o england_n for_o the_o maintenance_n of_o their_o agent_n in_o diverse_a place_n and_o many_o will_n think_v that_o m._n nicholas_n show_v no_o great_a discretion_n or_o prudence_n to_o complain_v of_o the_o charge_n to_o which_o the_o bishop_n and_o clergy_n put_v the_o catholic_n unto_o consider_v that_o m._n nicholas_n and_o his_o brethren_n have_v and_o do_v daily_a put_v the_o catholic_n to_o far_a great_a charge_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o stately_a house_n purchass_n and_o many_o other_o expense_n which_o come_v from_o the_o catholic_n state_n and_o purse_n but_o such_o thing_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v mention_v but_o that_o m._n nicholas_n give_v the_o just_a occasion_n 19_o to_o that_o which_o m._n nicholas_n add_v in_o this_o question_n concern_v a_o particular_a church_n without_o a_o particular_a bishop_n and_o a_o notable_a part_n of_o the_o church_n without_o a_o bishop_n and_o of_o a_o perfect_a christian_a without_o confirmation_n and_o of_o the_o father_n and_o divine_v allege_v by_o m._n doctor_n and_o of_o regular_o state_n of_o perfection_n and_o of_o their_o be_v of_o the_o hierarchy_n and_o all_o such_o point_n he_o be_v answer_v full_o as_o the_o reader_n will_v confess_v if_o he_o read_v my_o reply_n to_o his_o former_a question_n 20._o and_o so_o that_o which_o he_o say_v n._n 8._o be_v little_a to_o the_o purpose_n because_o m._n doctor_n in_o his_o cleventh_fw-mi chapter_n of_o his_o hierarchy_n intend_v only_o to_o show_v that_o charity_n be_v the_o perfection_n of_o a_o christian_a life_n in_o that_o it_o unit_v we_o to_o our_o first_o efficient_a and_o last_o end_n god_n that_o charity_n unit_v we_o to_o god_n m._n doctor_n prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n and_o also_o by_o the_o effect_n of_o all_o love_n which_o be_v to_o make_v two_o friend_n one_o soul_n by_o affection_n in_o two_o body_n as_o say_v m._n doctor_n s._n augustine_n confess_v of_o himself_o and_o his_o friend_n who_o be_v he_o nebridius_fw-la of_o who_o s._n augustine_n speak_v before_o in_o the_o three_o chapter_n still_v he_o charissimus_fw-la mous_a amicus_fw-la my_o most_o dear_a friend_n or_o another_o it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o m._n doctor_n purpose_n and_o so_o may_v by_o m._n nicholas_n have_v be_v omit_v but_o that_o he_o not_o able_a to_o answer_v to_o any_o main_a point_n be_v enforce_v to_o take_v hold_n of_o every_o trifle_n the_o rest_n which_o m._n nicholas_n allege_v in_o this_o question_n be_v answer_v or_o else_o be_v not_o worthy_a any_o answer_n only_o there_o rest_v one_o thing_n which_o i_o shall_v examine_v in_o the_o next_o number_n m._n nicholas_n in_o this_o account_n of_o pope_n martyr_n m._n doctor_n be_v much_o mistake_v for_o the_o 3._o last_o pope_n by_o he_o reckon_v namely_o joannes_n syluerius_n and_o martinus_n be_v long_o after_o constantine_n etc._n etc._n qu._n 7._o n._n 10._o the_o reply_n this_o error_n be_v wrongful_o father_v on_o m._n doctor_n 21._o m._n doctor_n in_o his_o thirteen_o chapter_n n._n 5._o to_o show_v that_o in_o the_o great_a fury_n of_o persecution_n it_o be_v the_o custom_n of_o the_o primative_a church_n not_o to_o except_v against_o bishop_n as_o some_o now_o do_v in_o england_n but_o to_o consecrate_v pope_n and_o