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A96888 A dialogue, arguing that arch-bishops, bishops, curates, neuters, are to be cut-off by the law of God; therefore all these, with their service, are to be castout by the law of the land. Notwithstanding, the world pleads for their own, why some bishops should be spared; the government maintained; the name had in honour still; but the word of God is cleare against all this, for the casting-of-all-forth. The great question is, which way of government now? For two wayes are contended for, The Presbyteriall and Independent: something is said to both these wayes: but we have a sure word for it, that these two wayes are but in shew two, and will assuredly meet in one. Neuters are shewen openly here, and the curse of God upon them. Presented to the Assembly of Divines. Woodward, Ezekias, 1590-1675. 1644 (1644) Wing W3486A; Thomason E34_10; ESTC R22862 54,646 56

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Set open the Ale-house you may be sure some body will come reeling out The same may be said of setting up May-poles and countenancing other sports thereto belonging You cannot command them and forbid the taking pleasure to riott in the day time Wee doe not reade and it is worth our observation that Balaam did command the people to commit whoredome with the daughters of Moah He did not point Zimri and Cosb● to goe to the Tent in the face of the Congregation and on that solemn day he had more civilitie than so Balaam Numb 24. 14. Chap. 31. 16. See Trem. did advise onely so and no more Balaam was an old Man as he was so his counsell must be grave not seemingly sowre nor apparently uncivill Let Isra●l and Moab come to an inter-view let them see each others faces let them be present at each others sacrifices This was the Counsell but worse than a curse for now folly will be committed in I●●●l no doubt of that And then The GOD of Israel will be offended wi●h Israel He will depart and then a curse followes as certain as when the Cloud is thicke The thunder-clap followes in our senses the sparkling flash Bad Counsell is worse than sower Counsell and more poyson u● for by bad counsell not sower counsell Balaam taught Balack To lay a stumbling block before Israel as the Spirit calleth a Rev. 2. 14 it And it proved in the issue sower counsell too Israel found it so as wee reade b Numb 25. 9. 1 Cor. 10. 8 To apply here The Bishops did not command Idolatry saying Goe serve other gods No but they set-up Altars That was enough to defile the whole Land and to make a people commit adultery with stones and with stocks c Jer. 3. 9. The Bishops did not command Tipling and Drunkennesse No But they commanded sports and pass-times Whitson-Ales and May-poles Allow the cause and countenance that you allow the effect and countenance that also which naturally issueth thence If the maid lay leaven in three pecks of meale shee need not command it to sower the whole lumpe Put fire and fuell together you need not bid it to burne Set a desirable object before the eye you need not command the heart to lust after it Set the windowes doores gates all open you need not bid the enemy enter A small sparke falling into gunpowder you know what it will doe whether you will or no or though you command the contrary And you know as well That they who command Wakes Whitson-Ales setting up May-poles and other sports therewith used do command filthy Tiplings and Drunkennesse and other abuses in such distempers usuall I have been the longer upon this to cleare your judgement in so necessary a point I proceed now to the next Question Did the Bishops but endeavour was it but their seeking onely To turne the Deputy from the faith Act. 13. 8. A. I cannot make answere here for I cannot tell whose endeavour and seeking it was I can tell All are turned from the Faith King and Bishop Priest and people and all All are turnd away from God that is cleare enough The Church and State are turned up-side downe what possibly Church-men could doe But who was the chiefest Artist and Turner here that I cannot so well tell B. If you cannot you are content to be informed at this point from them who can tell us from ancient Records That the Bishop turned the Deputy from the faith and with him very much people wee will reade the Records but consider with mee first How high the Bishops Power and Authoritie was A. How high the Bishops Power He was not in the Zenith d The Zenith is the highest point in the heavens over your head The Nadar is that point of earth your foot stands upon The place wher the Popes must be laid and their honours in the Dust of the Church for there onely the Pope sits Take it at the height of its elevation The Bishops power was but Derivative as a streame from the See of Rome a bastard-power from the Pope B. You are mistaken our Bishops power was as independant as the Popes power is as absolute a Pope in his Diocesse and that was all over the Land as the Pope is all over the Christian world And all his Actions Dictates Determinations c. were as Magisteriall and Pope-like as ever were the Bishops in Rome But I pray you consider with mee what I was about to say but that you interrupted mee 2. What an influence like some malignant Starr the Bishops power had from the Councell-Table Starr-chamber every Court and place into the affaires and transactions of Church and State 3. Enquire wee of ancient dayes and wee shall well understand That while the Priests were good The King was good When the people might say He is a very good Priest Then they might say He is a very good King Jehojada an excellent Priest for he made a Covenant between 2 Chron. 23. 16. God the King and the People That all should be not their owne but The LORDS People an excellent Priest he So was Joash the King as forward and zealous to say no more as the Priest was * Ver. 6. The Priests zeale kindled the Kings zeale made it fervent and boyling-hott So it was like the burning of thornes quickly in a flame and as quickly out It was not a zeale a fire from above But this is the point So long as the Priest was excellently good a living example before the Kings eye so long the King was good Zechariah a very good Priest too And in his dayes Vzziah was a very good King for he sought God in the dayes of 2 Chro. 26 Zechariah and all that while he prospered I might be large wee will reade but one or two Records more The one tells us 4. That the Temple and the Temple-worke there was never defiled while the chiefe Priests there did their office It is true The King fretted against the Priests and stormed against the LORD till the LORD 2 Chron. 26. 20. smote him in his forehead then he was calme and still But while the chiefe Priest and fourescore more with him did their office all was well except the King It was ill with him who did fret against the Priests because they did their office and against The Lord That charged them so It was ill with him But the Censer and the Sacrifice was in their hands unto whom it did belong To offer unto the LORD and serve before Him Let us record one example more and that will relate to these times King Ahaz had a servant a Right man for his s●●vice But as vile a Priest as was in all Judah What was the King If any man makes it a question The sacred Records will resolve him As miserable a King as his Idolatries other abominations could make him And his Priest the basest servant in the world a