towards a conclusion we shall briefly vindicate what we sub-joyned in our Plea for the clearing our Averment touching the alterablenesse of that Declaration 1646. viz. The obligation of a promise must needs cease if the state of things and persons be so altered as that in the judgement of wise men those who promised or declared ought cannot be thought to have willed the including such or such an event in the promise Here say they is a little missing the marke Answer Not of the marke we aimed at the frame of that objection to which in our Plea we undertooke a reply forcing us to speake both to the Parliaments interpretation of the Covenant in reference to Kingly power and likewise to their Promise that they would maintain the government of the Nation by King Lords and Commons as to the former of these we affirme that no postnate interpretation that may be suppos'd to have more or lesse in it then the letter of a Covenant can be reasonably imposed upon the conscience neither do we see cause to judge that the Parliament by their above named Declaration intended to elucidate or interpret the letter of the Covenant To the latter we say that although such and such things were declared for yet declarations as they here acknowledge are alterable pro re nata and therefore are of no perpetuall obligation Let us hear what they say to our reason or evidence brought to prove this viz. The obligation of a promise must needs cease if the state of things and persons be c. after a distinction premised to very little purpose about * Touching their instance in the case of the Gibeonites Jos 9. see Ames Cas consc l. 4. cap. 22. Quest 9. particular and generall willing the inclusion of an event in any promise they come to this conclusion Such events as may make the performing of the promise a sinne in the Promiser infringe the obligation these in the judgements of wise men are deem'd to be excluded to the Promiser but the event brought in by us as falling out in the Parliaments case viz. The Kings implacability and inexoriblenesse as we grosly enough stile it they say is not to be ranged amongst events of that nature they might have performed their promise without sinne and it seemes they did intend to include the Kings persistency thus they mollifie our expression not excepting against it after severall of those addresses made to him divers of them before the Covenant most of them before the Declaration April 17. 1646. so that the greatest part of his persistency was precedent to the making some of those promises c. Ans 1. If after all their experience had of the Kings presistency in a ruining way and all their hopes of bowing him to a complyance with their just desires extinct the House of Lords by their delayes and Negatives in matters of highest moment making it appeare too that they drew the same way with him if after these sad experiences the Parliament had sacrific'd the peace and welfare of the Nation to the interests of King and Lords we cannot but deeme it had been a very sinfull thing a betraying their trust a ruining the Nation a giving us up to a seven-times worse slavery then at their first convention they found us in and we can see nothing here alledged by these Divines though we looke longly for it to perswade us of the contrary they only say it had not been matter of sinne in the Commons to have made good that Declaration of which we are speaking but for this we want evidence 2 The Kings persistency in his way was that very event which put the Commons out of a capacity or possibility of serving the Publique with his advancement an event to be wondred at by all wise men Declar. of March 17. 1648. and therefore in the judgements of wise men not includible in the promise The Commons themselves tell us that upon their making that Declaration they were confident the King would have conformed himselfe to the desires of his people in Parliament and that the Peers who remained with the Parliament would have been a great cause of his so doing and therefore certainly they intended not to include his presistency or the House of Lords declining the publique cause in their promise Si aliquid incautius aliquem jâ—â—â—sse contigerit quod observatum inpejoreÌ„ vergat exitum illud salubri consilio mutandum noverimus c. Soter Epist ad Episc Ital. Charsum Concil Ann. 163 Concil Toler 8. Can. 2. we conceive they were not bound at that instant expresly to except these events they shewed what their exception was very reasonably when after all their fruitlesse endeavours to win the King they voted no more addresses to him peradventure this vote is interpreted one of the Parliaments swervings from their principles which these Ministers minde us of but we cannot so judge of it that principle which respects the Kings Person and Authority having an expresse condition joyned with it ever since the Covenant was entrâ—d into therefore for ought we know they might have voted no more addresses sooner then they did that famous and safe limitation saving the Covenant harmlesse had they done so and the emergency of an event as if confest a warranting the change of Lawes and Declarations may justifie the Commons in receding from what they had declared about governing the Nation by King Lords and Commons yet these assaylants have not done with us but ere they leave us will get betwixt the joynts of our harnesse by a pretty sleight blow a pure subtilty the Kings inexorablenesse was not any change say they but a going on in the way he was when the promise was made and therefore cannot be urged truly as a change of a person or thing to release the Parliament of their promise in his behalfe truly this is subtile nihil for we must tell them that as to our case in the judgement of wise men there is not any imaginable difference betwixt the failing of an event fully and confidently expected and the failing out of an event utterly unexpected the Kings flexiblenesse was the event confidently presumed and made the ground of what was declared concerning him by the Parliament and his not changing to their minde together with the House of Peers changing from their mindes viz. their sence may be tollerably called a change of Persons subverting the foundation of that promise the one not doing what was expected the other doing what was not expected but the King was not so stiffe as is pretended it seemes for he did not hold out after seaven addresses We suppose say they that Treaty at Newport was one of the seaven no Sirs it was the eighth Declar. March 17. 1648 p. 12. if they keep a true account who declare it so to the whole world neither was he then inexorable but contrarily yeelded to more then had been desired of him in former
THE Northern Subscribers Plea Vindicated FROM The Exceptions laid against it by the Non-subscribing Ministers of Lancashire and Cheshire AND REINFORCED By J. DREW ACT. 5.38 39. If this Counsell or if this Worke be of men it will come to nought but if it be of God yee cannot overthrow it least happily ye bee found even to fight against God GAL. 2.18 If I build again the things which I destroyed I make my self a transgressour Dic quibus in terris eris mihi magnus Apollo Nascantur flores inscripti nomina Regum Virg. Eclog. Published according to Order LONDON Printed by R.I. to be sold by John Wright at the Kings head in the Old Bayley MDCLI ERRATA BEsides some litterall Errours and false pointings in these Sheets Page 2. line 2. read by these l. 22. r. have Pag. 3. l. 4. r flowing Pag. 4. l. 12. r. pouring Pag. 6. l. 15. put out some Pag. 7. l. 13. r. as to the meanes c. pag. 15. l. 7. put out or a naturall existence Pag. 19. l. 15. r. exultations l. 19. r. ejulation Pag. 20. l 18. put out they have l. 33. r. notifie l. 38. r. prepossessions Pag. 29. l. 24. r. What they non-will they never understand Pag. 30. l. 22. r. dispossessed power l. 35. r. charge Pag. 32. l. 5. r. our Pag. 44. l. 19. for vainely r. unjustly Pag. 54. l. 29. for nothing r. not King Pag. 59. l. 1. put out not Pag. 67. l. 26. r. falling out TO THE Truly Religious and publique-spirited Patriot Sir James Harington Knight A Member of PARLIAMENT and of the Councell of STATE 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Honoured Sir IT might be judged my folly should I here take upon me to informe you My forgetfulnesse if I should mind you that it is the commendation of those starres fixt in the Heavens of the Nations in the most anomalous times to know no Eccentricks nor any motion but what is direct As the fining pot for silver Prov. 17.21 and the furnace for gold so is a man to his praise To be upright in a warping Generation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Phil. 2.15 Numb 4.24 and to follow the Lord wholly argues that nature and spirit in the subject which act 's few of Adams children and indulgeth no compliance with those interests which draw men aside from serving the counsell of God in difficult and criticall seasons There is an houre of temptation now come upon the world to try them that dwell upon the earth and what with the divine providences really disserving the ends of some men and the pretences of others to conscientious dissatisfactions such a number have shrunk from their high callings Psal 90.17 that could not the mighty God do his own work by a few as well as by many wee might sit down and dispaire the establishing what by his presence for many years with our counsels and Armies hee had in mercy wrought for us 1 Sam. 12 22. but the Lord will not forsake his people for his great names sake because it hath pleased him to make them his people Sir That this God would continue you among the rest of his called and chosen and faithfull Ones a blessing to this poore Nation that hee would make you an honour to your honourable family and accepted of the multitude of your Brethren Esth 10.3 as hee who sought the wealth of his people and spake peace to all his seed that hee would perfect your joy and crown and enable you to stand compleat in all his will that an entrance may be ministred to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdome of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is that which he strives for at the Throne of Grace who is Sir Your servant indeed J. DREW The Northerne Subscribers Plea re-inforc'd THese Conscientious Non-subscribers who in the Title Page of their Plea beare the World in hand that they much desire satisfaction and in the entry of their Appendix seeme to be very eager of it by pointing out an expedite way to those who may please to undertake the businesse That it may yet further appeare it was not a desire to contend but a care to proceed upon a cleare ground which put them to a stand about the Engagement yet these very men tell us betwixt their * Fronti nulla fides Juv. Title and the Appendix viz. Pag. 68. That now it would be construable those courses even all endeavours after their satisfaction are held to defend themselves who are pre-engaged and to decoy others into the same trap with them rather then to satisfie Conscience dashing downe at once by this profession of their thoughts all their pretences to satisfaction as men resolved to fasten the designe of deceiving as an odious Vizzard upon the most brotherly and Christian intendments and essayes that can be drawne from any man to that end like those Prisoners who passionately desiring a release yet out of a sullen or a jealous temper doe avowedly interpret every mans endeavour to that purpose as a designe upon them to make them greater slaves Prepossession is a very tough and intractable humor and Apologies sometimes harden and inrage the persecutors of innocency Why what evill hath he done saith Pilate and they cryed out the more exceedingly crucifie him Mark 15.14 Now although upon this account it may be thought too late or to little purpose to emit any Plea for the satisfaction of dissenting Consciences in point of submission to the powers in being over us yet that we may not be wanting to our owne Consciences or the submitting Consciences of our friends in justifying their submission as conscionable indeed we thinke our selves bound to take the weight of those exceptions laid against our Plea by those Classicall Authors as turning the ballance clearly in their esteeme against that obedience which we contended for as due from us to the present Authority we then profest not to undertake the * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Athan satisfying of Consciences Pag. 13. our end was to acquit our selves from the imputations of time-serving and ‖ Nil-bonum nisi quod rationabiliter bonum Jo. 13.17 blinde obedience in owning or taking part with those few heads and stayes of our Tribes kept together by the Providence of God for our support in this strait of time those few graines not ‖ Amos 9.9 fallen to the earth in this season of our Nations sifting that it might not be presumed or concluded as commonly it useth to be that there is little conscience in any saving in those who put themselves on the suffering side seeing men generally at a losse we made search after our duties and then made * Intellecta licet pro re pro tempore fari Mant. knowne to the world that we found upon search to have influence on our Consciences how farre these undertaker◠have weakned our Plea as to its essentials who thinke they have driven conscience and reason
out of every line of it scarce leaving one ragge to cover the Subscribers nakednesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 5.14 after examination we shall cheerfully submit to the judgements of all those who by reason of use leave their sences exercised to discerne both good and evill sometimes we are charged as senslesse other times as religionlesse but to us it is a very ‖ 1 Cor. 4.3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Synes small thing that we should be judged of mans judgement we must stand or fall to another Master if we beare not the same respect and conscience to the truth in this our defence which these Ministers pretend to in making up their judgement against us and if we labour not to approve our hearts and waies to God in our present obedience to the Powers that be Job 11.11 as much as others doe in dis-obliging themselves at this season he who is the discerner of all hearts shall not he judge and he who knowes vaine man shall not be consider it We shall begin our reply where their first exceptions are commenc'd and that is against our first Argument here we must take notice of what they grant which is our Argument in terminis and what they deny which is our sence of it they grant the being of these present Powers over us from God and the proposition likewise upon which this is built viz. That all constitutions of Government have their making and marring their standing and falling from God This they say proves our assertion in a right acceptation but not in that sence which serves for our turne Therefore they distinguish betwixt events following from Gods decree concourse or providence and those events which are authorized and approved of by God we receive the distinction and if it be made appeare that both those senses or distinct notions of events are at the service of our assertion then our turnes shall surely be served but the latter sence say they concerns your purpose therefore our assertion shal proceed in these termes That the powers in being are from God by way of Authorization or that he approves their being over us that the Lord appropriates changes of Government and Governours to himselfe we proved in our Plea from these Scriptures Ezek. 21.27 Zech. 11.8 Hos 13.11 And Acts 13.20 21 22. which these Gentlemen are content to wave as impertinent to what we should prove But Sirs if you be content that the Lord should approve of what he appropriates to himselfe they serve clearly for the proofe of our proposition formed to your own sence and evince the being of our Authority over us by way of Authorization from God if the Lord commands the diadem off mens heads removes the Crowne sets up or exalts him that is low and abases him that is high if he cuts off those who were given for Shepheards gives his people Judges raiseth them up Kings grant that he never intitles himselfe to the thing hee dis-owns and then all these things are from him by way of Authorization when God saith I exalt this man shall wee say he approves not of his exaltation Jer. 27.6 7. I have given all these lands into the hands of Nebuchadnezzer and all Nations shall serve him saith the Lord. I but it is unlawful to serve him saies man for God doth not approve of this his gift doth not warrant this mans Authority as a divine Ordinance thus man becomes more wise and jealous then the holy one his Maker Well to our case then the swaying powers amongst us are they of Gods lifting up or no has he given the Kingdom into their hands or may they say our own hands and power has gotten us this greatnesse and laid the foundation of this eminency not the latter The holy one will have the living to know that the most high ruleth in the Kingdom of men and giveth it to whomsoever he pleaseth and setteth up over it the basest of men Dan. 4.17 If the Lord himselfe hath raised them up we dare not thinke but he approves his own act they tell us that God may be intitled to their power as it is a * Pag. 2. and 8. natural force or inergy or in respect of its metaphysical existence and no otherwise but we take Majesteriall power or dominion to be a thing of a clear distinct nature and consideration from Physical Energy and so we beleeve do the Ministers of Lancashire too Dominion is a judicial power or ‖ Jus imperandi Psa 72.8 Gen 1.28 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 jus et dominium ac aeuthoritatem denotat c. Mercer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Chrys in Gen. 1. jus in creaturas Deus homini dedit stitit illas coram homine ut sisti solēt subditi corà m novo principe inaugurando et accipiendis mandatis ejus atque 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suit figonum dominii et imperii Polan Syntag. li. 5. ca. 35. the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 speaks no lesse See Gen. 42.6 with Psal 105.22 144.13 Dan. 7.27 Eceles 9.19 Psal 8.6 morall right to rule the Lord in translating Throns and Scepters shifting principalities from hand to hand and poureth supremacy from vessel to vessell he does more surely then give men a naturall power to grow great this he communicates as the Author of nature but as that God whose Kingdome ruleth over all he disposeth of Dominions modells and breakes againe frames of Government and stil continues his Ordinance amongst the sons of men When God as sovereign of the world lifted up Nebuchadnezzar over Judah he did not only enable him with power to conquer that people but gave him a right of Dominion and rule likewise we cannot perswade our selves that he would have commanded the remnant of his people of serve him or have promised that it should be well with those that did serve him if it had been otherwise besides this Nebuchadnezzar made Zedekiah Jehojachins Uncle King in his stead 2 King 14.17 which delegation stood approved as his act who had royal power * Nil dat quod non habet to give for when Zedekiah endeavoured to shake off Nebuchadnezzars supremacy the Holy Ghost stiles it a Rebellion against that King and Ezek. 17.16 the Lord threatens him severely for it as I live saith the Lord God Vers 20 surely in the place where the King dwelleth that made him King whose Oath he despised and whose Covenant hee brake even with him in the midest of Babylon he shall dye So that God ownes the making men Rulers as well as the raising of them from the dust 1 King 16.2 this was his word to Baasha I have made thee Prince or Ruler as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred 2 Sam. 7.8 1 Chron. 5.2 over my people Israel and this is that we contend for touching our present Powers their right inforo humano to rule cannot be lesse then Baashaes was yet he is registred for
for many Centuries of yeares this attempt we thinke few quiet and undesigning spirits will be forward to ingage themselves in but what besotting interests have wrought men to we see and seeing have cause to bewaile the fruits of their distempers shaking and indangering the publicke bottome that hath gone a nine years voyage for peace and is now within view of harbor our having been wounded is not so much as that our wound should be perpetuall Jer. 15.18 8.15.22 14.19 and still kept open by the sons of peace official healers if here you acquit your selves Sirs t is well Quisquis vel quod potest arguendo corrigit vel quod corrigere non potest salvo pacis vinculo excludit vel quod salvo pacis vinculo excludere non potest equitate improbat firmitate supportat August hic * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Clem. Alexan. strom l. 5. pacificus est Wee have insisted somewhat largely in our rejoynder to that exception commenc'd against our Argument touching the being of the present Authority over us from God both because it is of confessed importance and because it much facilitates our retargation of what followes under this head To proceed therefore To this explanation of our Position viz. That frames of Government are resolved by God into the peoples wills as the immediate cause of their specification They answer pag. 3. 1 That People destitute of a lawfull Magistracie have an elective Power in the constitution of Government but standing in the relation of Subjects they have not a privative or innovative power Wee Answer if at any time people are enabled to chuse what forme they will be governed under Answ then when necessitated they may lawfully innovate the very being or ordination of Magistracy for their good warrants the one as well as the other and though that Mode of Government from which they change be lawfull yet power tyrannically and injustifiably exercised justifies their election of those meanes for their comfort and security which the law of nature owned by the word Grot Nunquam aliud natura aliud sapientia dicit Juv. dictates to them Necessitas enim summa reducit res ad merum jus naturale Take away a peoples privative power in this case and their elective power serves onely to make them perpetuall slaves before their choyce of such a Governour or Government they were free to provide for their liberties and naturall immunities but after their choyce made they must be content it seemes with what falls out though to the destruction of these for ever this is to enable people to make themselves miserable and there to leave them remedilesse but the Lord has provided more mercifully for them ordaining Magistracy and Order as their accumulative freedome not destroying by his postuate institution what by that generall Statute that unrestrain'd Charter the Law of Nature he had before granted to them yet if a people have no greater cause to desire a change of Government amongst them then Israel had when they cryed ‖ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Sam. 8.19 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Joseph Antiq. li. 8. Act. 26.18 Make us a King we shall never plead their excuse in endeavouring it 2 They say Some kinde of Governments are unlawfull in their owne nature so is that of the beast Rev. 17. and the ten Kings giving their power and strength to the beast these cannot be said to be approved of God Answ 1. The power of those ten Kings or Kingdomes is lawfull in its owne nature the text notes its abuse and suggests thus much to those that alledge it viz. That regall Government is apt above all other modes whatsoever for the service of the beast this is neither only nor also for their purpose 2 That beastiall power they instance in is but an equivocall power that sway of Satan in the hearts of the children of disobedience is called a power too but what hinders this that God may not approve all civil frames of Government upon the Earth how various soever every Ordinance of man which is confest to be only an Application or a Modification of the generall Ordinance of God These are capable of his owning sure notwithstanding this out-leape or essay of theirs touching a power Antichristian in its very essence and of an hellish Parentage our Position reaches to no such power when we say What kinde of Government a people doe will for their owne good the Lord sets his seale upon it Their instances indeed under the next Head and our instance in 1 Sam. 8 9 10 12. Chap. prove that God dis-ownes the sinfulnesse of their wils who are given to change and transgresse without a cause not that hâ— dis-approves the Government they desire It is ordinary for mâ—n to abuse their Liberty and that latitude of choyce which God allowes them in things of this kinde but to conclude that ergo God gives not a People liberty of change and that he resolves not frames of Government into their wils because some men have and others may sinne in erecting new Models and changing their constitutions is like dashing out a mans braines to cure the Megrime or like that practicall Logick of Lycurgus who prohibited the planting of Vines because men used to be drunke with the Grapes 3 We say That in all changes of Government the prevailing not the over-borne Party may lay claime to the signature of Divine approbation this they conceive contradicts our former Position which entitled the Peoples will to the specification of Government and the seale of Gods approvall We all know say they the Peoples wills may goe one way a prevailing Party another contrary to it c. Answ We need not labour much to shake off that contradiction which is pinn'd upon us gratis for though the wills of some people yea of most people may goe one way and the prevailing Party another way yet we all know that the prevailing will goes but one way and which way this will goes that way goes the divine approvall otherwise we had never been commanded to obey EVERY ORDINANCE of man FOR THE LORDS SAKE 1 Pet. 2.13 Though men may sinne in the motions of their wils yet God dis-owns not the power and priviledges he has given them but to hitch on a little These Gentlemen fight notably with their owne shadowes from hence all along till our second Medium as they call it gives them the opportunity of a new encounter proceeding from a supposition which is no grant of ours nor educible from any thing we have yet said viz. that the prevailing Party is owned of God quatenus prevailing hence they frame mountainous absurdities and lay them to our charge as the consequences of our Principles but we know that supposito quo libet sequitur quid libet if any Minister of this combination should deliver such a Doctrine as this The doers of Gods will not the hearers only may lay claime to salvation
is as to the persons comming in and sustaining it unjustifiable as it is Hab. 1.12 then it cannot make the Text pregnant to our purpose Answer We neither say that the word makes the Text full and pregnant to our purpose the Scripture indeed we say is so nor doe we deny but our present powers may be ordained for judgement and ‖ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Euseb praepar Evangel li. 8. established for correction Lord saith the Prophet thou hast ordained them the Chaldean powers for judgement this Text therefore confirmes what we have to prove viz. That the Powers in being over any people are Gods Ordinance though they may be as most commonly they are both attained unto as to mans agency and sustained unjustifiably thus they have not dis-favoured our argument at all by this septuagint-allegation After this velitation anent the word Ordained they come to a proposition of ours which they say we formed out of it viz. In what ever series of events God manifests his speciall concurrence or appearing that cause he ownes and authorizeth mans Agency in it This they deny But before wee joyne issue wee must needs gratifie them with some what which they would faine know from us by the way and it is this why we call the powerful working of God unto events flowing from the efficacious decree his speciall concurrence or appearing after wee had thus paraphrased the words the Powers that be are ordained of God as the first and cheife cause of all Beings but all Beings are not by his speciall concurrence Answer All those beings we speak of are viz. All positive futuritions determined by him and well pleasing to him Is it another contradiction to say the cheife cause of all Beings may both generally and specially concur to the production of the same event When we looke back unto the years of the right hand of the most high God and consider what great things he has done in England Ireland and Scotland and by what means we conclude thus Not by might nor by power but by the spirit of the Lord and cry grace grace to them intituling the special out-goings Isa 41.15 and unbareings of his holy arme to these effects wherein he made the worme Jacob a threshing instrument with teeth to beat the mountaines like chaffe every work morally good all the gracious actings of his Saints and Servants are drawne forth and his creatures inabled to them by a twofold divine concourse Twist vindic Gratiae li. digres or assistance the one Phisicall the other supernaturall but that we shall make use of in this debate is onely the speciall exertions of his divine power and the might of his arme unto naturall effects with his generall providence in the support of instruments these signall and observable exercions of his might in weake meanes we call his speciall appearings or efficiency Now to the businesse We must needs tel them they do us wrong in assuming that for the sinews of our argument which neither the argument it selfe nor our judgements any way befriend viz. That Gods efficatious decree and hand in powerfull working is conversant or operative in no humaine affaires or actions but what are in man lawfull or agreeable to the rule of Gods word and therefore this elaborate digression of theirs touching the Metaphisicall derivation of all Actions and Beings with their morall state and qualifications and touching Gods agency in all the affaires and actings of men without the least ‖ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Synes tincture of sinne might have wel been spared we acknowledge with them that if the present power over us have no more from God then a Metaphisicall existence or a naturall existence or a natural power and production by his concourse or co-operation with second causes it is dis-owned by him with abomination wee plead not Gods ordinary workings but his speciall appearings in favour of our present Authority as by our above mentioned proposition appeares though they would cajole it to speake their sence who make no distinction betwixt Gods ordinary operations and those workings of his which are marvellous in al mens eyes Surely Sirs you may acknowledge some kind of language in Gods lifting up of his arme to a wonder as well as the Psalmist does in all the works of his fingers day unto day uttereth speech and night unto night telleth knowledge there is no speech nor language where their voyce is not heard Saith David and if his wonders upon earth speake any thing it is the might of that God whose workes they are and his favour towards that people on whose behalfe and that cause in which they are wrought Hath God essayed saith Moses to goe and take him a Nation from the middest of a Nation by temptations by signes and by wonders and by war and by a mighty hand according to all that the Lord did for you and what followes because he loved thy Fathers therefore he chose their seed after them and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt Moses argues from the great things God did for that people to his owning of them as about seven year agoe these Ministers at least some of them made no bones to do when God shewed us any great salvation or gave us any notable victory over the late Kings forces though now the same presence of God with our Councells and Armys speaks nothing at all yet we confesse this Plea of Gods mighty workings towards a people would be very weak if it went alone but we plead the Law and Testimony for Gods owning our present Authority and their cause as the witnesse beyond exception His workes we mention in the second place as a good comment upon the word only Having thus righted our selves we need say little to their needlesse and exhojudiciall digression only it seemes strange to us that they should insinuate as if our present Powers derived from God only as a Metaphysicall entity when as his giving a Kingdome into any mens hands imports clearly another thing viz. Gods making them Rulers which in so doing he ownes notwithstanding he may dis-owne their interests in grasping of power and the sinfull or indirect courses whereby they may become possest of it It creates us not any carefull thoughts that in taking their leave of our second Medium they call our Paraphrase or glosse on Rom. 13.1 a wide one unlesse they could make it appeare we restraine Gods Ordination of the Powers that are to Divine concourse we have shewed that our Powers are from God by way of Authorization and that his disposall of the Kingdome into their hands conferring thereby his right unto them has made the Authority lawfull in the Subjects wherein it rests let us see now how it fares with our third Medium Their third Medium say
they to prove that the present Powers are from God as approving and legitimating them to the Persons is divine Providence the conduct thereof and the Lords presence with the instruments in his hand for effecting this change of Government his wonderfull appearings his hand lifted up in breaking Conspiracies disscipating numerous Bodies preventing confusions un-interrupted continuance of his goodnesse all these make up an evidence of Gods signall owning that Power in being over us which is the product of these Wonders not to quarrell with their Short Hand in cramping our Argument thus they tell us we are so passionately confident of this Medium from providence that we pronounce them more deeply baptized into the spirit of Atheisme then the Aegyptian Sorcerers and declare a curse of God surely to come upon them that confesse not what we thinke undeniably inferres our conclusion Answ Now let the world judge what passion or confidence our words have bewrayed he that considers the workes done in our dayes pondering them well and yet confesseth not Digitum Dei hic hic the Arme of the Almighty made bare for us we cannot but thinke he is more deeply baptized into the spirit of Atheisme then the Aegyptian Sorcerers which withstood Moses Exod. 8.19 If the falling of a Sparrow to the ground though worth but halfe a farthing hath something of Providence in it much more those wonderfull appearings of God anticedent concomitant and subsequent to our change of Government Have not the hils melted like wax at the presence of the Lord Psal 97.5 at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth God wil surely curse that man and his house who saith it was an arme of flesh that did what was done in England as making way for this change or what hath been done in Ireland since P.W. Generalls Letter from Ireland Decem. 1649. Surely these men are angry with Providence or they would not call our taking notice of it passion but yet it seemes they are not desirous to come under the curse of those who wil not see for we acknowledge say they the hand of God and his providence to have been operative yea visibly and wonderfully working in these changes neither are they willing to deny what we thinke inferres our conclusion so that our premises passing currant we must needs judge of this their Reply as a battery raised only against our conclusion But the Iudgements of God are a great deep and without the Cynosure of his Word they finde no safety or warrant to lanch forth into them neither doe those whom they jerk at as hardy Steers-men or bold Adventurers when they take us without a sure word for our Chart and Compasse let their little fingers be as heavie upon us as their loynes have been but shall we through a ferulary awe of any mens threats or censures suffer the Lords workings those perfect Eccho's of his Word to vanish into aire or abstruse nothings All his wayes are judgement Deut. 32.4 must we therefore looke into none of them shall not the just walke in them because transgressors fall therein Hos 14.9 2 Men used not formerly in the heat of our late dissertation betwixt King and Parliament to be so nice and squeamish in this particular but could venture at interpreting the minde of the Lord of Hosts from events of Warre most if not all the Thankesgiving Sermons preached before the Houses are yet living to attest this it seems we can tel how to blow both hot and cold Providence is a Topick which must serve only at some seasons and that for friends too in short Tertul. Si Deus homini non placuerit Deus non erit God must not be seen in that which suits not our interests nor pleaseth us we dare not adventure to interpret that so which we have no minde should be so yet let us take heed dislike of persons or instruments may keep us from seeing God where he is at least be a temptation to hinder us from acknowledging him there 3 Gods Judgements we conceive in their more darke and hidden dispensations are a great deep but to call his Providences so at all seasons so that nothing may be learnt from them no discoveries of his minde at all we see no warrant for Habac. 3.9 Job 36.24 25. when his arme is made bare and his bow made QVITE NAKED Surely these appearings of his may be soberly adventured on without lanching into Gods secret depths they are bruitish who understand not the obvious purport of his workings thou hast made me glad through thy worke saith the Psalmist and they are not only eyed Psal 92.4 5. 28.5 but sought out of all those that have pleasure therein Psal 111.2 may we not by observing them understand the loving kindnesse of the Lord Psalm 107.43 A Law shal proceed from me saith God and I will make my Iudgement to rest for a light of the people Isa 51.4 4 They tell us that the appearances of Gods hand in the advancement and successes of men wipes not off the least spot of that grand guilt which rests upon their persons much lesse c. We plead not Patronage or justification to any mens cause much lesse to their persons from Providences alone all that we draw from the pre-mentioned great workes of the Lord in order to that great change of Powers over us is that be deales not so with every people that he shewed himselfe so in effecting it as he useth to doe in the production of those events which are of speciall complacency to him and certainly he that undertakes to prove that God useth to doe such things for the Managers of that Cause which he abominates will finde it very operous It is not a supercilious non sequitur therefore that shall beate us off from taking comfort in Gods Workes nor from glorying in the operations of his hands neither will that which followes prevaile so farre upon us where we are put in minde of the usuall lot and condition of Gods Church viz. A low degree a state of oppression a Wine-presse of troubles and wrongs to be bowed downe and made a footstocle or streete for the enemies of God and his Church to set their feet and walke upon to have men to ride over their heads to plow and make long furrowes upon their backs to be made to turne back from the enemy to be spoyled of them that hate them to be given like sheep appointed for meat and to be scattered among the Heathen c. and on the contrary earthly power pomp and triumph outward illustriousnesse and victoriousnesse to be destroyers of Cities shakers and overturners of Kingdomes are more frequently the Characters and Equipage of God-lesse and notoriously wicked men and practises then of them that are better Answ We grant they are so such have been the wayes of Providence God hath walked in towards his Church and chosen hitherto Psal 71.20 yet sometimes he