the first point they say that S. Francis aswell as Christ was declared by darke sayinges and speaches of the prophets T What may those Types of S. Francis be Z. They tell of many I onelie will recite a verie few omitting to mention the rest both for breuitie sake and t'auoide offence You know at the commaundement of the Lord Moses made a fierie Serpent and set it vp as a signe that so many as were bitten might looke vpon that Serpent of brasse and liue T. I know the place verie wel what of that Z. That Serpent was a figure of this S. Francis T. Of this S. Francis Not of S. Francis but of Christ I trowe for so Christ him selfe did say Z. But they say it was a figure of Saint Francis It must therefore necessarilie ensue either that Christ was not the Messiah or that S. Francis was the Messiah Sauiour of mankinde so well as Christ. T. Who euer so wickedly hath abused the holy Scriptures of God Z You shal heare another Tipe of this new Christ Saint Francis When Nebuchad-nezzer had cast the three Noble-men into the burning ouen at length he spied in the middest of the fire a fourth whose forme was like the Sonne of God Know you whom that fourth did signifie T. Whō he did signifie I wot what I thinke But I pray you tell whom he did signifie Z. I will tell you he was a figure of S. Francis if you will credite the Franciscanes T. No more of this I pray you hartelie I canne no longer endure to heare such blaspheming of God and horrible abusing of his holy word Z. How then would you abide to heare them say that the worde of the Seraphins Holy Holy Holy in the 6. of Esaie were spoken figuratiuelie and are to be vnderstood of S. Francis How would you abide that the noise of the great rushing behinde the Prophet Ezechiel vttering these wordes Blessed be the glorie of the Lord should point vnto Saint Francis what woulde you thinke if you heard them say which they write that the Angel hauing the seale of the liuing God mentioned in the 7. of the Reuelation was verie Saint Francis T. That is as much as if they saide that Christ is not Christ but S. Francis is Christ. Z. And that is to make the Gospell of Christ euen a verie fable Chap 2. Of S. Francis againe who is in many equal in some respectes made Superior to Iesus Christ. TYMOTHIE But to leaue these shadowes and come vnto the substance dare they compare S. Francis with Christ as you said they doo ZELOTES They do both compare and in many respectes preferre him before Christ. T. That would better be knowne Z. You haue alreadie heard how they are made like for names like for nature a like prefigured yea sometimes by one and the same Types and Shadowes But more-ouer they are made equall in many other thinges in so much as they haue written a booke on purpose to shewe the conformitie betweene Saint Francis and Christ. T. What resemblance is there betweene Christ S. Francis Z. As much in truth as betweene God and Belial Yet that the world may see how farre they haue waded in impietie you cā name almost nothing of Christ wherein they make not S. Francis to resemble him T. When Christ was borne a multitude of heauenlie soldiors with Th'angel praised God and said Glorie be to God c. What such thing at the birth of S. Francis Z. Yes it must religiouslie be beleeued say they that the like was done at the natiuitie of S. Francis And which more is Hell was so mooued at this mans birth as th'infernall feendes did thinke either that the day of Iudgement was then come or one was borne that should shake yea ouerthrow the force of hel was euer the like read or could any thing be said more in disgrace and dishonor of our Sauiour Christ T. Christ being a childe of eight daies old and presented in the temple Simeon that iust man fearing God and waiting for the consolation of Israel tooke him in his armes praised God c. Z. That is verie true so did Simeon a iust man yet a man but saint Francis being a child an Angel in shape of a pilgryme tooke him in his armes as Simeon did Christ and blessed him T. Christ was so holy as albeit he was tempted yet was he without sin and neuer did sinne nor knew any sinne nor had in him anie sinne at all Z. In integritie of life also saint Francis doth resemble Christ For he performed euen according to the letter not omitting so much as one iote or title euē all the holye Gospell and kept euerie commaundement of God in so much as he is an example of all perfection T. If he were such a one maruell it is hee had no Ionn Baptist to prepare away for him as Christ had Z. You maruel that he had none such but he had such a forerunner as Christ had and that is merueilous T Christ had his twelue Disciples and the names of them all are knowen Z Saint Francis had so manie for number as wel knowen by their names And as one of Christ his Apostles called Iudas was wicked and hung him selfe so had saint Francis a disciple called Iohannes de Capella which for lewdnes hung him selfe And as the Apostles of the Lord were wonderfull for their holines and miracles so the companies of saint Francis were glorious for conuersation and miracles in life and in death And as the holie Apostles followed with all indeuour the life and doctrine of Christ so these companies with saint Francis obserued the holie Gospell And as the Lord Iesus had other Disciples besides the 12 Apostles so also saint Francis besides the forenamed companions and disciples had manie mo that were singular for life holines and perfection And as by Christ his Apostles the whole world was changed so by saint Francis and his bretheren the world is altered to the following of Christ his life and exercising of penance T. Christ was tempted of the deuill was saint Francis so too Z. Yea hee was tempted likewise of sathan that therin he might be founde like vnto Christ T. Christ was so virtuous as some being sicke thought that if they might but touch his garment only they should be whole Z. Saint Francis was therein not inferior vnto Christ for he thought him self happie that might touche the hem of saint Francis garment T. Christ was of that power that he healed euerie sicknes and euerie disease among the people Z. So did saint Francis T. Christ raised the dead vnto life Z. Saint Francis did the same T. Christ at a Marriage made Wine of water Z. S. Francis also turned not onelie water yea a fountaine
For so the popes Boniface the eight and Clement the 5 would haue it be T. Then are they of that auctoritie by no right and warrant from God his word Z. By none at all neither yet by any law besides the consideration whereof hath moued some as Cyno-pistoriensis and Duarenus excellent Ciuilians by publike writings to inueigh against that vsurped power and the most part of Lawiers saith Duarenus that are of any accompt are of the same iudgement yea saith the same Duarenus I am perswaded there is none of the sounder learneder sort that can like of this enterprise of Boniface T. Then not onely Gods word but also the best Ciuilians in the vniuersall world do vtterlie condemne this soueraigntie in the Pope of Rome as hauing no strength of reason to vphold itselfe withall which may not à litle strengthen vs that abhorre this Antichristian pride power and supremacie of the Pope Z. Besides they may worke in our mindes à great and vtter detestation of those horrible effectes proceding from th' infinite power of this papall primacie T Name some of them Z. As if Kinges and Emperours be of à contrarie mind vnto the pope in matters of Religion that he may depriue them of their Roialties and quite discharge their subiectes from obeying thē any more T. Publish they such thinges of the Pope Z. That is their doctrine For saith Maioranus The pope of Rome by that fulnes of power which hee hath ouer all Christian Princes he may for the crime of haeresie depriue haereticall Kinges Emperors of their Empires yea and in temporal thinges quite set free the christian people from obedience and subiection with whom agree of our countrie but of à contrarie religion vnto vs Sanders Bristow with him that wrote that infamous Libel against the Christian iustice executed at this praesent in this realme of England T. This doctrine is like the doctrine neither of sainct Paul who was so farre from putting such vngodly thoughts into the peoples mind that from God he commaunded that supplications should be made for all men euen for Kinges which then were idolaters nor of sainct Peter who also said Submit your selues vnto all manner ordinance of man for the Lordes sake whether it be vnto the King as vnto the superiour or vnto gouernors as vnto them that are sent of him c And Kinges in those daies were as heauie aduersaries to the Church as any now liuing And this do saith the same Apostle for so it is the will of God Obedience therefore and subiection vnto our gouernours are the true effectes of à true and good Religion as it was well deliuered by à worthie Counseller vnto good and most louing subiectes Z. If the doctrine be so horrible what is the practise of the same T. That must needes bee al hellish Z. Then from th' infernall feendes do those Buls and excommunications proceede thundred both against the two noble Henries th' one whereof now is and long may he be King of Nauarre th' other the Prince of Condie most vnnaturally of late through poison sent out of this world by which Buls those Princes for their owne partes yea and their heirs too are disabled to gouerne and made vncapable not onely presently but for euer hereafter of anie praeeminence dominion honor and roialty in any land but specially in France their feudatories besides vassals liege people and subiectes are asoiled and set free from al othes of faithfulnes subiection how soeuer made vnto them yea forbidden for their liues to obey them any more and also against the mightie Empresse of Great Brittaine our most renowned Queene Elizabeth the Lordes annointed whereby both hir sacred Maiesty is denounced an haeretick and her people her well affected people and still may they be to her Maiestie charged and vpon paine of the great curse commaunded not to obay hir any more but as discharged from their naturall allegiance due vnto hir by many straight bondes to take vp armes against her and rebell T. Though the Pope like Antichrist himselfe dare embolden yet God forbid that any should bee so bad as to decline from their vowed loyaltie by any Buls from an Italian priest Z. I shall tell you which yet I can neither thinke but with griefe nor speake without horror the Seditions rebellions treasons not intended but entered-into vpon this warrant from the Pope haue bene monstruous and abhominable And one thing besides more horrible then the rest I will not let to vnfold T. What is that Z. Though I can vtter it neither but with griefe of hart yet that you may se another proper note of right Antichrist indeede this is it There is à doctrine resolued-vpon commended allowed and warranted in conscience Diuinitie and pollicie that for the furtherance of the Romish superstition it is lawfull yea meritorious to God the world for à naturall home borne subiect by any indirect meanes to take away the life of his liege Prince the Lordes annointed T. Now blessed be the Lord that thus layeth open the more thē diuelish cogitations of that Romish Synagogue and thrice blessed be his aeternall maiestie for alienating our mindes from such vngodly thoughtes Z. Dauid did but priuily cut-of the lap which was on Sauls garment and he was touched in heart for the same yea said this childe of God being coūsailed to kil his King Saul The Lord keepe mee from doing that thing vnto my Mayster the Lordes annointed to lay my hand vpon him for he is the annointed of the Lord yea Dauid was so farre from killing Saule himselfe or suffering them that would to murther him that he put that man to à shameful death who both by the consent and by the commaundement too euen of Saul himselfe had killed him So litle desire had Dauid by any sinister and treasonable course to maintaine his cause and to aduaunce himselfe T. A worthie example doubtles and proper onely and alwaies vnto them who are of that Religiō which is of God But is that doctrine warranted by the Pope himselfe which you haue spoken of Z. Himselfe hath so allowed the same as by letters written with his consent à Cardinal from Rome hath not onely commended the fact as that which shal merit heauen but animated the villaine also which was to perpetrate the treason to perseuere in those blacke accursed which hee called holy and honorable thoughtes saying by the spirit of Antichrist that he was indued with à good Spirit promising him from the father of all treasons the Pope not only great thinges in this world but also plenary indulgence remission of all his sinnes in the world to come T. Was any so bewitched as to aduenture the committing of so horrible treason vpon such à warrant Z. You are very ignorant if you know not or verie forgetful that I say not vnthankfull if
especially for that soueraigne auctoritie hee had both to teach and reueale the wil of God cōcerning the redemption of man T. What was his auctoritie Z. Such as we are both enioined and that by a voice from the excellent glorie to heare him threatned to answere for the same if we despice his doctrine T. What were his giftes Z. Most diuine For he was the brightnes of the glorie and th'ingraued forme of God ful of grace and truth yea so full that all the fulnes of the Godhead dwelleth bodilie in him T. What was his doctrine Z. As were his qualities such was his doctrine euen most heauenlie For all thinges which hee hath heard from his Father hath he made knowen vnto vs and they are committed vnto writing that we might beleeue and that through beleeuing we might haue life through his name T. Now tell mee how Christ is diuested of this office and the Pope of Rome made the great Prophet of the Church of God Z. I haue mentioned nothing from the holie Scriptures touching either th'auctoritie or the giftes or the doctrine of Christ but the Pope is made to match that I say not to surpasse our Sauiour Christ in al and euerie of these respectes and therefore as great for power as Soueraigne for giftes as diuine for doctrine as Christ him-selfe T. I would see that confirmed Z. Who knoweth not that God is more pleased in his sonne Christ than they are delighted in their Father the Pope This is my beloued sonne heare him saith God And of the Pope this is our welbeloued Father in whom wee are delighted hear him say the papistes For whatsoeuer hee determineth is a knowen truth and that which he condemneth is a knowen error His lawes euen all of them are to be taken as confirmed by the mouth euen of God himselfe And whatsoeuer hee saith it is truth and he cannot erre Is not this to make the Pope of equall auctoritie with Iesus Christ T. To denie that is euen to gain-say an open truth Z. Moreouer that which latelie I alleaged though to an other purpose doth fitlie proue also that he is takē for giftes diuine partes to be as singular as our Sauiour Christ when they say of him an sainct Iohn said of Christ that of his fulnes wee do all receaue And that his doctrine is made equiualent with the Gospel of Iesus Christ it appeareth manie waies T. Shew that thing Z. He that will reade the bookes of Sentences especially the workes of Gabriel Biel shal finde that they make four sortes or degrees of the law of God T. What are they Z. The first degree be the lawes reuealed immediatlie from God him-selfe be written in the holie Bible especiallie in the Gospels penned through the wil of Christ for our better attainment of euerlasting happines T. What heare I Zelotes Is the word of God the first degree of Gods law be there moe lawes which are to be nombred among the lawes of God besides the holy Scriptures And among those bookes of the sacred Scriptures are the workes of the Euangelistes to be reputed but for lawes Z. That is their iudgement T. Proceede then and tel me what be the other lawes of God besides the holie Scriptures Z. The next are the Phansies and dreames either taken by tradition from man to man or deriued from the Scriptures by their false corrupt erronious pharisaical interpreting of them such are most of the Articles of the popish Creede sometimes drawen from the written word I graunt but rarelie agreeing with the sense of the holy ghost to th'analogie of the catholique faith T. And be the Articles of their faith lawes and their expositions to be accompted for the verie lawes of God Z. It is their opinion T. What bee their other lawes which they say are the verie lawes euen of God himselfe Z. They are of two sortes of one are the Canon lawes the Decretals Sixtes Clementines Extrauagantes and the like of thother sort be the Reuelations false Religions and Rules as of S. Bridget S. Frācis S. Dominick and that lame Spaniard Layola the founder of the Iesuitical viperous generation either penned or auctorized and made currant by the Popes of Rome T. And are men bound to take these and euerie of them euen as the verie lawes of Iesus Christ himselfe Z. Euen as the lawes of Christ. And how in cōparison of the Pope his lawes traditions ordinances and expositions they thinke of the holie Scripture it would carefullie be obserued T. What thinke they of the holie Scriptures Z. He was a Popish Bishop that sometime demaunded of a reuerend Father and afterward a blessed Martyr of Iesus Christ whether the people might not bee ordered without the holie Scriptures And he was à Cardinal of Rome that writ how there might be a Church without the Scriptures And another of that stampe whose name I now remember not said plainlie it had gone better with the Church had there bin no Scripture at all T. These are particular men you shew not the cōmon iudgement of the Romish church Z. It is written of the Circumcellian heretikes that they not onelie exercised most violent persecutions vpon the bodies of Sainctes but also burned to ashes in the fire euen the most holie bookes of God which wee call the Scriptures T. So did Herod afore them and the wicked Israelites afore them also but what of that Z. Their burning of those bookes notified vnto the world in what price and estimacion they had the most pretious word of God T. Yet this is nothing to the Papistes of whom our speech is Z. Yes verie much For they doing the same thing that is burning those bookes do shew thereby in what reuerend accompt they haue the holie word God T. Haue they burned the Scriptures of God as did the Circumcellian heretikes and other impes of Satan Z. Not onlie the Scriptures they haue burned but also in as barberous maner as euer was heard haue they burned into ashes the bodies of men onely for hauing I saie not the whole Bible but euen a litle fragment of the same euen the Lordes praier in the English tong and not allowing the same idolatrouslie to bee said vnto dead Sainctes And how that good Deane of Paules in Lōdon D. Colet should haue bin condemned for an heritike and burned it is notoriouslie wel knowen T. But wherfore Z. For translating the Pater Noster forsooth into English And againe how they haue cited tossed threatned and troubled of good people some for hauing the Newe Testament some the Gospel after S. Mathew some Th'actes of the Apostles some Th'epistles of S. Paul some the Reuelatiō of Sainct Iohn yea some for learning or teaching euen the verie groundes of all true Religion as namely the ten Commaundements the Creed the Lords praier some but for saying
in English Blessed bee they that heare the word of God and keepe it it is worthilie recorded and to th'euerlasting shame and reproch of Poperie to be remembred T. But the daies are now changed For by their diuulgating the whole new Testament into a vulgar tong they declare themselues to haue a religious care of Gods word Z. Cardinall Cusanus was of that mind that he thought how as the Church by time doth alter so th' interpretacion of the Scripture also may varie whereby that in Th' apostles time was a truth in these daies shalbe an error and contrariwise our papistes in deede though not in word seeme to be of his minde els would they neuer allow that in these daies for good which their fathers condemned as wicked and damnable I meane the hauing the Scriptures in a vulgar tong yet this proueth no whit that they haue in estimation the Scriptures of God T. Why not Z. Marke I beseech you Albeit they haue translated the New Testament into English which for all that most impiouslie they haue done and sacrilegiouslie yet when they holde either as Hosius that there is none other expresse word of God but onely this word Ama or Dilige Loue thou or as another that the gospel is nothing els but the determination of the Church or as the same Hosius that whatsoeuer the church of Rome teacheth that is th' expresse word of God but whatsoeuer is taught contrarie to the sence and coÌ„sent of the Romish church is th' expresse word of the deuil or as Harding doth that to the interpretation which the Church of Rome giueth of the Scriptures whatsoeuer it be is the od and onlie true sence of Gods word it is apparaÌ„t that hold what they list for the letre they make their owne imaginations determinations senses consent and expositions euen the verie word of God reiecting thereby in comparison thereof the most holie writinges of the blessed Prophets and Apostles who we know wrote not by the wil of maÌ„ but through th' instinct of the holie ghost And this being established by th' auctoritie of the Pope doth not it seat the Pope in the propheticall Chaire not of Moses but euen of Christ himselfe T. Vndoubtedlie Z. And yet end they not here but giue vnto the same Pope that auctoritie which neither Christ would take vnto himselfe nor yet could giue vnto anie creature beside T. What may that be Z. Euen an absolute auctoritie to dispense against the law of God against the law of nature against th' epistles of S. Paul against the whole new Testament and against al the commaundements of God For with these and against all these they say the Pope at his pleasure can dispence T. But so cannot Christ himselfe do For what soeuer his written word any where doth condemne as il and vngodlie by no dispensation can he make it good godlie and allowable at any time Z. It were an endles thing to mention the most horrible dispensations proceeding from time to time from th' infinite power of this arrogant aduersarie of Christ I will therefore mention one of them for the horriblenes thereof which plainlie sheweth what spirite it is that possesseth the Pope T. Shew that I pray you Z. The time was some thirtie yeares ago when the popish preachers in their open sermons published that to kill a Lutheran it was a worke gratefull to God and meritorious But of late not yet fiue yeares ago for à natural and often sworne Subiect and seruant to murther his liege soueraigne it was not onely permitted as pardonal by a dispensation from the pope but also iudged meritorious by a cardinals letre as wherby he should merit much in heauen T. An Indian great man as I haue heard being tormented most cruellie by the barbarous Spaniardes grew into such a detestacion of that mercilesse Nation that he chose rather to go presentlie into Hel then with the Spaniardes to enioy blisse in Heauen For my part Zelotes rather would I chuse to bee for euer debarred from that ioyful paradise of euerlasting happines than to be admitted into heauen by such a meritorious worke Z. The time was and still is that they hold howe by doing good man may merit heaueÌ„ which yet is erronious doctrine z much derogatorie to the merits of Christ what titles then may wee geue to them which maintaine that murther yea and the murther of Gods annointed is meritorious deserueth a reward from God T. I am of your minde and I thinke euen Satan himselfe can hardlie perpetrate a more execrable sinne But here stay we Zelotes I see now ful clerely blessed be God therefore that al poperie is most lothsome and horrible and there is none ende of citing the most cursed opinions which Papistes do maintaine they are so manie You haue sufficiently proued the pope to vsurpe euen all th' office of our S. Christ and so indeed to bee reputed of our aduersaries for verie Christ but thereby knowen of vs to be verie Antichrist And because others also as Sainct Francis and the Virgin Marie of whom you haue spoken haue the same roialties dignities and offices giuen vnto them by the Papistes which appertaine vnto Christ and vnto none besides the conclusion is that the Gospel of Christ in truth is but à verie toie or fable counted among the Papistes Z. Be it therefore knowen vnto al men by these presentes that whosoeuer is a subiect to the Pope is a traitor to God that I say not to his Countrie and a contemner of Christ and of all Christianity so-wel as the Pope with whom he may assuredlie exspect for euer to be daÌ„ned vnlesse in time through the grace of God he leaue his wicked opinions imbrace the sincere gospel of Iesus Christ at this houre in England professed embraced of all States ratified by most wholesome lawes prospered miraculously by al happie successe most constantlie against all manner Aduersaries and deuilish attemptes defended by by the most gratious glorious and victorious Prince Elizabeth whom th' almightie so preserue that she may liue still see the prosperous successe of this truth and th' ouerthrow of all enimies of the same to the great glorie of God hir owne euerlasting comfort Amen a Reuel 17. b Reuel 19. v. 7. 21. v. 9. Demonstr 2. Test. Rhem. annot Iohn 16. v. 13. 17. vers 17. Ephes. 5. v. 24. 29. 1. Tim. 3. v. 13. c N. SaÌ„d de viâ—ib Monar lib. 8. d Catech Triden in exposit Symb. e Whitak against W. Reinoldes c. 5. f Theol. Wirtemb contra Bellar. p 254. g Fla. Illyricus contra mend Papist h Heshusius de 600. erroribus pontif i Theod. Beza epist. 1. k Caluinus epist S regi Poloniae f. 169. i M Latimer his last wordes in his confer with B. Ridley bout the Lords Supper m Gen. 39. v. 7. 8. c. n