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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A68023	A briefe examination for the tyme, of a certaine declaration, lately put in print in the name and defence of certaine ministers in London, refusyng to weare the apparell prescribed by the lawes and orders of the realme In the ende is reported, the iudgement of two notable learned fathers, M. doctour Bucer, and M. doctour Martir ... translated out of the originals, written by theyr owne handes, purposely debatyng this controuersie.	Parker, Matthew, 1504-1575.; Bucer, Martin, 1491-1551.; Vermigli, Pietro Martire, 1499-1562.; Hooper, John, d. 1555.	1566 (1566)	STC 10387; ESTC S101661	56,521	86

by men it be commaunded but as the tradition or precept of god Thus farre Doctour Bucer With whom Maister Caluine very wel agreeth saying ‡ That which is part of decencie commended vnto vs by the Apostle though it be prescribed by man is Gods tradition and not mans as kneelyng at solemne prayers and suche lyke So then if you woulde haue rested vppon the censures of these godly learned men you shoulde not haue needed thus vnwysely to haue skoffed at this wysdome of man contaynyng her selfe within the limittes of the wysdome of God as is before proued and myght be fully iustified by infinite places of Germayne wryters and by theyr letters of late sent into the Realme to dyuers godly but for prolixitie The thyrde mayne reason you vse is That none of Christes litleones must be offended Whiche thyng accordyng to your vsage you augment with sundrye textes of Scripture as yf all the men of vnderstandyng in this Realme were yet aslepe and neyther saw nor harde the voyce of theyr maister Christ and his holy Apostle But you passe ouer with silence that whiche you shoulde haue substauncially waded through Vz That these orders nowe taken do iustly offende the weake lambes of Christes folde Wherfore to aunswere to the generall proposition it is not expedient seeing it is holden as most true of all men But concerning the offendyng of the weake briefely In indifferent thynges if lawe for common tranquilitie haue prescribed no order what ought to be done a Christian man ought to haue a great regarde of his neyghbours conscience accordyng to S. Paules doctrine But yf lawe foreseeyng harmes and prouiding quietnes haue taken lawefull order therin offence is taken and not geuen when the subiect doth his duetie in obedience so seuerely enioyned hym by Gods worde Notwithstandyng you say that a wyse shipper in saylyng wyll not come nygh rockes and flattes yf he may but take sea rowme ynough In deede the wyse shipmen of our Churche haue spyed the rockes of false doctrine superstition and errour wherevpon many haue ben cast away and to auoyde them haue taken rowme ynough in the scriptures of God For outwarde apparell of them selues are not suche rockes and flattes as you do phantasie neyther euer harde you any of Christes seruauntes to be in daunger of perishing iustly by them as they be now appoynted Yea you may beholde many a godly passenger vnder these orders saylyng with a straight course towarde that heauenly Hauen whervnto he trusteth safely to arriue Al these men in this ship of Christ takyng example by the politike gouernour S. Paul crye out aloude and say Non omnia papistica edificant All popery doth not edifie and are marueylous circumspect and carefull lest any of Christes deare flocke should be offended As for the place alleaged by you where S. Paule forbyddeth Cōmunion with the Gentyles in their idolatricall worshyppyng yf you had applyed it you shoulde haue perceyued no sequele therof For thankes be to God we dwell not among the Babilonians and Chaldies we haue in our Church no publique worshyppyng of Idolles no Heathenishe or idolatrical sacrifice as were in some place of the citie of Corinth whose societie contagion we ought to auoyde And yf there be in a Church where Christes Gospel is purely preached and his sacraments rightly ministred some euyl among the good as in one net diuers sortes of fishes in one fielde wheate and tares in one barne corne and chaffe yet the good are not sayde to communicate or be defyled of the badde as long as they consent not to theyr wickednes but depart from among them not by corporall separation but by dissimilitude of life and diuersitie of maners though they both vse the same temple the same table the same sacramentes as S. Augustine setteth out at large It is one thyng to flee from communicatyng with open professed idolatrie theyr prophanes rites and deuylyshe orders though in hart we worshyp God and another ryghtly to vse rites and fassions abused all the abuses beyng clearely condempned Of the one we haue an expresse commaundement in Scripture the other our auncient fathers haue practised before you and Gods holy worde hath not forbydden it The fourth foundation or grounde that you lay is That you must needes cast away and forsake all those thynges as haue ben brought into the Church besides or contrary to the Scripture This platte you enlarge with a dosen seuerall sentences all which paynes you myght well haue saued yf you had not mynded to haue ben bytyng and snappyng by the way at your superiours This trueth all faythful Christians confirme with you That concernyng fayth and doctrine concernyng remission of sinnes and eternall saluation nothing ought to be taught or receyued which is contrary or not grounded in the Canonicall Scriptures For holy writ geuen by the inspiration of God is not only a lyght to our feete as Dauid sayth but also so profitable that thereby the man of God maye be absolute beyng made perfecte vnto all good workes as Saint Paule testifieth And though this be most true touchyng the substaunce of Christian religion yet the maner and order of settyng of it foorth is not particularly expressed but generally left to the disposition of Christes Churche from tyme to tyme accordyng to those wordes of Saint Paule * Let all thynges be done comely and orderly Wherein whatsoeuer shalbe lawfully done to those purposes is not to be iudged besydes the Scriptures As for example Fastyng is commaunded in Gods worde But what dayes we shoulde fast or what dayes we shoulde not beyng not there determined yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besydes the Scripture The ministryng of Baptisme the Lordes supper is commaunded in Gods worde But what dayes what tymes what places in what companye with what prayers before and after yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besides the Scriptures And accordyng to this Saint Augustine wryteth touchyng the receyuyng of the Sacrament of the body bloud of Christ fastyng in the mornyng Saluator ideo non praecepit quo deinceps ordine sumeretur vt Apostolis per quos Ecclesias dispositurus erat seruaret hunc locum Our Sauiour therfore hath not cōmaunded in what order the Sacrament shoulde be afterwarde receyued because he myght reserue this place to his Apostles by whom he woulde order the Churches Thus also the preachyng of the Gospell is commaunded in Gods worde but howe to do this office in Pulpit or otherwayes in mornyng or after noone and so forth yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besides the Scripture The lyke may be sayde concernyng lawes politike of Princes affayres and trafficke betwixt man man whose groundes and rules are in Gods worde and yet the particular circumstaunces in practising them being diuers in sundry Countreys accordyng to the iudgement of magistrates are not besides Scriptures when al those diuersities haue Gods worde for theyr

of Moises and that in the Temple to wynne to Chryst the obstinate Jewes The histories Ecclesiasticall also haue diuers experiences howe much our auncient fathers increased Christes Churche by such godly pollicie Hence it was that they plucked not downe all the Jewyshe Sinagoges and Heathenyshe Temples but turned them to the seruice of God that they altered theyr feast dayes that they chaunged their rites to Godlye purposes And that this myght be done it appeareth by S. Augustine to Publicola saying Cum vero ista vel in honorem veri dei conuertuntur hoc de illis fit quod de ipsis hominibus cum ex sacrilegis et impiis in veram religionem mutantur When these thinges be conuerted vnto the honour of the true God it is of them as it is of the parties them selues whan they were before committyng sacrilege and impietie nowe they be conuerted into true religious persons These fathers thought not them selues in suche thynges vnder the commaundement which God gaue his people to practise in the land of Canaan therfore durst not with an herotcal spirite destroy all that the Heathen had inuented before But dyd Vindicare tanquam ab iniustis possessoribus in vsum suum clayme to theyr owne ryght vse as it were from the iniust possessours such lyke thynges as you talke of in this declaration Neyther dyd almyghtie God wyll his people to ouerthrowe the Cananites images and aulters leste those Gentyles shoulde be made more obstinate in their false religion as you alleage the cause but rather as the text declareth leste Gods seruauntes shoulde thereby fall vnto their idolatrie For they were charged not to bryng that heathenyshe people to Gods true seruice but to rote them cleane out of the land which they had so wickedly polluted Wherfore you do wrye this place from his naturall sense Upon this text you adde a note in the margent That al monumentes of Idolatrie must be destroyed signifing what your auditours and readers shoulde iudge of these orders which yet you your selues sometimes acknowledge to be indifferent and maye be vsed when occasion shall serue If these thynges required at your handes be preciselye vnder that commaundement of God to his people enteryng the lande of Canaan then is all this controuersie at an ende Proue that and al is done It woulde helpe you very much in this matter to consider that there is great difference betwixte those thynges that were meerly inuented of the Heathen to the worshyp of Idols and to maynteyne idolatrie and those that haue ben abused of papistes specially these fewe thynges beyng first institute for no such intent From this argument of not edifiyng wherein you would haue vs rather yelde to your saying then be perswaded by your reasons you fall to speake against pollicie without the compasse of Gods word vnder the which you would comprise these orders not impius wicked And for want of matter thorow your spirite of ironie you must as you do to the Prince the Counsayle the Byshops the learned men ● wyse geue also to the aduertisementes theyr gyrde and nip whiche very prudently thinketh it well yf Ministers receyuyng these orders teache and protest for what ende and purpose they take and vse the same wherby others may learne what difference there is nowe when these thynges are set forth for decencie and order and the tyme when suche lyke were inforced as the seruyce of God What fault you fynde with this rule you declare not Peraduenture you thinke those garmentes yet stayned with Idolatry and therefore not to be receyued by any protestation wherein you are contrary to your selues to all learned men and to the scriptures Or els you thynke not this declaration suffient in these thinges indifferent that they be not vrged of necessitie that they be onlye appoynted for decencie and order wherevnto you maye adde more circumstaunces yf you wyll but they are contayned vnder those two whiche yf the Minister both holde hym selfe and diligently declare to other he may with discharge of conscience obey his Prince knowyng that comelynes and order edifie the Churche of Chryst. Well the aduertisements must be defaced with the infamous title of the inuention of man and such lyke And vpon what reason shall this be done Forsoth it is lyke the wysdome of them that woulde haue ymages you say in Churches to exercise theyr strength in refraynyng from the worship of them whiche thyng is agaynst the wysdome of God Deut. 7. You shoulde haue done the dueties of discrete preachers yf you had vttered this your vnlykely lykelyhood to them that stande in so fonde defence of ymages whereof what the doctrine of this Realme is it is publykely declared And as for these orders all obedient men well vnderstande that they are not geuen to trye any mans perfection Neyther do they passe the wysdome of God whiche in the Scriptures willeth all thynges to be done decently and orderly whiche graunteth the godly magistrate aucthoritie of makyng ecclesiasticall lawes whiche hath geuen also power to the Churche whiche promiseth his spirite to Synodes yea for ordeynyng rytes and maners But to beate downe this pollicie of mans brayne you say very lytle nay nothyng at all to the purpose that in thinges neyther commaunded nor forbydden we must not folowe our owne phantasies lest we heare In vayne do they worship me teaching doctrines the preceptes of men These preceptes of men wherewith the Prophete and the Apostle saye God is not worshipped were such as Chrisostome wryteth whiche the seniours had made newe other wayes then Moyses commaunded and preferred them in Gods seruice before the lawe of the Lord and added them to Gods worde as iudgeyng it otherwayes vnperfect for the saluation of Gods people On this maner no man at this tyme vrgeth these orders That holsome lawes of godly magistrates whiche seruing God as S. Augustine affirmeth they make not onlye for humayne societie but also for Gods religion which furthermore he truely tearmeth Clensing instrumentes of the Lordes barren floure profitable terrours commodious admonitions healthsom boundes medicine right phisical That these I say are not to be thought the preceptes of man it needeth not to call together here all the auncient felowship of fathers Doctour Bucer vpon this place may teache you the same who most godly pronounceth thus Quicquid homo statuerit quod quomodocunque ad vsum proximorum faciat c. Whatsoeuer man shall decree whiche by any meanes may make to the vse of his neighboures for that the same is deriued from the rule of charitie as be lawes ciuill domesticall statutes ceremonies and rytes whiche Christian men vse thereby to teache or heare Goddes worde more commodiouslye or to praye and about the Lordes Supper and Baptisme yea whatsoeuer shalbe a furtheraunce to passe our lyfe here more profitablye and decently That thing ought not to be esteemed as a tradition or precept of man though

howe can it be but that he which promised to blesse all the workes of our handes whiche we take in his name wyll denye his blessyng to these signes seyng he hath no where forbydden such a vse of them as we haue expounded and hath made vs Lordes of the Sabboth and all other thynges of this worlde But yf we graunt that these thynges which I haue spoken concernyng the vse of such signes may be it is surelye the part of brotherly charitie commaunded vs by God to leaue such vse of suche signes in such a Churche free to the iudgement and conscience of that congregation excepte we see an open abuse eyther of superstition as if these thynges were vsed as conteynyng in themselues some part of godly worship of themselues or of contention as if they displeased the greater and better part of the Church or of gettyng of good wyll of some men whom in these thynges we ought not to gratifie because they therby go about to bryng a seruitute vnworthy for Christian men It was euident at Saint Paules tyme by the most cleare Scriptures of God that the vse of dayes meates al other externe thynges was made free and it was a sure token of infirmitie in fayth to doubt therof yet the holy ghoste pronounceth that such weaklinges ought to be receyued not to the troublyng of their cogitations and not to be contemned of the stronger in fayth and that in these thynges it myght be graunted to euery one to be sure of his owne sense seyng that the Lord had receyued these weaklynges Nowe if the holy ghost woulde haue men to yelde so much to them which were in a manyfest errour inasmuch as they depended vpō him in the chiefest necessary partes of sincere religion what ought to be graunted to these concerning the free vse of external thinges whom we can not conuict of any errour by Gods worde For howsoeuer I examine and expende those your two arguments that is They are the imitation of the Aaronicall priesthood and the markes of Antichristes priesthood and therfore ought to be eschewed of them that loue Chryst yet that thyng whiche you woulde is not hereby concluded For to imitate Aarons ceremonies is not of it selfe vitious but only then when men vse them as necessarie to saluation or to signifie that Chryste is yet for to come to take fleshe vpon hym For yf by no meanes it be lawfull to vse those thynges whiche were of Aarons Priesthood or of the Gentyles then is it not lawfull for vs to haue Churches nor Holydayes For there is no expresse commaundement by worde in the holy Scriptures of these thynges It is gathered notwithstandyng from the example of the olde people that they are profitable for vs to the increase of godlines which thing also experience proueth For any thing to be a note of Antichrist is not in the nature of any creature in it selfe for to that end nothyng was made of God but it hangeth altogether of consentyng to Antichristes religion and the professing therof The whiche consent and profession beyng chaunged into the consent and profession of Christianitie there can sticke in the thynges them selues no note or marke of Antichristes religion The vse of Belles was a marke of Antichristianitie in our Churches when the people by them were called to Masses and when they were rong agaynst tempestes nowe they are a token of Christianitie when the people by them are gathered together to the Gospell of Christ and other holye actions Why may it not then be that the selfe same garment may serue godly with godly men that was of wicked signification with the vngodly Truely I know very many ministers of Christ moste godly men who haue vsed godlye these vestures at this day do yet vse them So that I dare not for this cause ascribe vnto them any fault at all muche lesse so heynous a fault of cōmunicating with Antichrist for the whiche fault we may vtterly refuse to Communicate with them in Christ. The Priestes of deuils did celebrate in theyr sacrifices the distribution of bread and the cuppe as Iustinus Marter and Tertullian make mention What let is there why we may not vse the same ceremonies also you wyll say we haue a commaundement of the Lorde touching this Ceremonie Uery well And by the selfe same it appeareth that same thyng to serue among the children of God to the seruice of Christ whiche the wicked abused in the seruice of Deuylles yf the commaundement of Chryste be added thereto But it is the commaundement of Chryst that in our holy actions we institute and vse all thynges so as comlynes and order be obserued that fayth may be edified Nowe yf any Churche iudge and haue experience such as I doubt not there are many this day in Germanie that the vse of suche vesture bryngeth some commendation to the holy ministration and thereby helpeth somwhat in the way of comelynes order to the encrease of fayth what I pray you can be brought out of the Scriptures why that Church is not to be left to her owne iudgement in this matter neyther therfore to be contenmed or to be called into question for her iudgement sake That Church veryly will kepe in these thynges a meane agreeable to the Crosse of Christ and wyll diligently attende that no abuse crepe into it If therefore you wyll not admit suche libertie and vse of vesture to this pure and holy Churche because they haue no commaundement of the Lorde nor no example of it I do not see howe you can graunt to any Churche that it maye celebrate the Lordes supper in the mornyng and in an open Churche especially consecrate to the Lorde that the Sacraments may be distributed to men kneelyng or standing yea to women aswell as to men For we haue receyued of these thynges neyther commaundement of the Lorde nor any example yea rather the Lorde gaue a contrary example For in the euènyng and in a priuate house he dyd make his supper and distributed the Sacramentes and that to men only and sitting at the table But it wyll be obiected that in England many vse vestures with manifest superstition that they do noryshe and confirme in the people superstition Euen so it may be aunswered very many abuse all this whole Sacrament as also Baptisme and all other Ceremonies Therefore let vs withstande this mischiefe and vanquishe it vtterly Wherevnto though it may be that the takyng away of vestures maye helpe somethyng yet to dryue away all this mischiefe it wyl not suffise Nay the Priestes them selues must be fyrst remoued and in their roumes placed faythfull ministers in the kyngdome of Chryst suche as be learned in deede and godly affected To this therefore to this I saye muste we chiefely endeuour our selues that the hartes of the people may be purged by fayth whiche fayth is fyrst begon and increased by the hearyng of the worde of God this hearyng is brought by the

preachers of the Gospell Suche therefore let vs call for and that there maye be store of them let vs be earnest for reformation Let there be a visitation of the vniuersities whence many fyt ministers for Churches may be gotten Let vs neuer ceasse to crye out agaynst that Sacrilege that the fattest benefices are graunted to vnworthy men in respect of their worldly seruice that the paryshes are so miserablye vndone through papisticall sleyghtes and violence These these I say are certaynely papisticall factes agaynst these ought we chiefely to bende our force but to be stoute and earnest against stones stockes vestures and suche other thynges which of them selues neyther bryng gayne pleasure nor honour it is a very easie matter to the hearer and speaker especially those that be discharged from papisticall superstition for by the shakyng of suche thynges great mens stomakes are not offended But to remoue Churche robbers from the spoyles of Churches and to do all thynges possible to this ende and purpose that euery parishe may be prouided of conuenient ministers and that Curates may haue sufficient for their sustentation and to ayde them to the ful restitution of Christes discipline This is a thyng of great moment This is a harde thing to all them whiche are not able to say with Saint Paule For Christ is to me life death is to me aduauntage And again God forbyd that I shoulde reioyce sauyng in the Crosse of our Lorde Jesus Christ wherein the worlde is crucified to me and I to the worlde It pleaseth me ryght well that all Antichristes trashe shoulde be remoued away as farre as myght be I meane not onlye his ensignes and markes but all his steppes and shadowes in what thyng soeuer they seeme to stande whether it be in stockes stones garmentes or whatsoeuer other thyng els it be But let vs endeuour our selues to banyshe fyrst the body and substaunce of Antichrist and then after his ensignes steppes and shadowes The body and substaunce of Antichrist consisteth in the wicked destroyers and spoylers of Churches by whose meanes not onlye Christes discipline but also all the whole doctrine is oppressed and put out of place When I consider these thinges and agayne looke backe as I ought to do towarde the preceptes of the Lorde and his examples I wyshe with al my hart that as many of vs as wyll be Chrystes folowers in deede that euen so we earnestly go about to restore his kingdome as the Lord himself went about to begin it and that we seke it before all other thynges and let the preachers in all doctrine discipline instruct the people be suche who for our Lorde Chrystes sake the preachyng of the Gospell wyll be redy to leaue all and that by these mens ministerie we bryng the people to the kyngdome of Christ and let vs appoynt to euery flocke their owne faythfull shepheard who may labour no lesse to call agayne the true notes and markes of Christianitie as to abolyshe vtterly the markes and notes of Antichristianitie whiche I woulde wyshe so abolyshed that there remayned not so muche as the memory of them in any mens hartes But seeyng that this thyng can not be brought to passe vnlesse Chrystes kyngdome be fully receyued I woulde wishe that all we should to that ende bestowe al our strength vnto the whiche worke for as muche as we nede many workefelowes I woulde wishe with all such as truely loue the Lord Jesus that we set apart all dissention and ioyne in one perfect concorde to endeuour our selues to set vpon the common aduersary We see now beyng taught by the experience of so many yeres that the Lord graunteth but to a fewe to depart from that sentence which they haue once fastened them selues in specially yf they haue also contended for the same so that we shalbe inforced eyther to dissolue christian Cōmunion with many whō the Lord hath receyued or els we must geue place one to another to the intent that eyther of them may rest in their owne iudgement though the other dissent It is a very harde thyng in deede yea to moste holy men to denye them selues and he is seldome founde among men whiche would not be content rather to yelde in his patrimonye then in the opinions of his witte Nowe then where as we see almightie God to beare this our infirmitie in vs so mercyfully fye on the hardnes of our hartes yf the example of our Lorde and God can not encline mollifie our hartes to the lyke mercy and pacience Wherefore I conclude that we ought to take great diligent heede Fyrst that we take not vpon vs straight way to determine all questions as they rise yea let vs sturre none at al which throughly tend not to the kyngdome of Christ. Let vs acknowledge the weakenes of our wytte and iudgement Let vs stande in feare of our naturall arrogancie and our peuishe selfewill in our owne inuentions All thynges necessary to saluation are set forth vnto vs openly dearely plenteously in the holy scriptures and in the study and perfection thereof euery one of vs wanteth very muche Let vs labour then to fulfyll and once to make vp our imperfection with godly studies Of all other matters let vs dispute most warely let vs define most slowly or neuer let vs contende at no time If at any tyme through the craft of Satan and our owne negligence variaunce shal ryse in these thynges let vs betyme leaue of from the same as soone as we can by whatsoeuer way we may or els let vs make some truse in them Seldome is there any victory obtayned yea neuer holsome victory gotten Hereby most godly sir you see vndoubtedly what is best to be done both in this controuersie of vestures and also of the libertie of other Ceremonies I had rather then muche goodes this question had neuer ben moued but nowe seeyng it is moued I wyshe it to be geuen ouer and deferred to some other tymes These your two argumentes It is a peece of Aarons Priesthood and therfore contumelious toward Christ nowe exhibited as then glorious when he was to be exhibited Secondarily These are notes of Antichristianitie and therfore not to be vsed of men geuen to Christianitie These reasons I say conclude not in my iudgement that whiche you toke in hande For we borowe many thynges godlye from the orders of Aarons Priesthood to the glory of Chryst nowe exhibited So many thynges whiche the Antichristes haue made markes of theyr impietic may be tokens of the kyngdome of Chryst as the signes of bread and wyne the water of Baptisme the laying on of handes preachynges Churches Holydayes and many other thynges Also these places of Scripture are of a great scope The earth and the fulnes thereof is of the Lord not of the Deuyll not of Antichriste not of the wycked And agayne the sonne of man is Lorde of the Sabboth and the Sabboth is made for man and not