then I desire no more if they were so farre Ministers as to administer Baptisme to you then they may well administer Ordination to us renounce therefore the Baptisme you had by them so I am sure you cannot ordaine and when you are regularly re-baptised and can warrant your Act and prove that you have the power to Ordaine then we will listen to you For my owne Ordination it was in the face of my people the day was spent in fasting and Prayer those who carried on the worke were Mr. Dan. Rogers Mr. Marshall Mr. Ranew with other godly Ministers who joyned with them in the imposing of hands the Ministers lived about me I never saw that Ordinance carried on with more solemnity in my life the people shewed their election by suffrage holding up their hands all was done according to the Pattern but yet I am a man as much scorned as other men who were Ordained by Bishops I can submit to God in that scorne that these cast upon me for I deserve it at his hands only there was a foule errour committed at my Ordination and it is told up and downe by some of this kinde against whom I write and I pray what is it This The Ministers imposed hands in my Ordination this hath been talked of as a strange thing but let me answer for the Ministers it was no errour much lesse such a great one as you make it 1 If private men Carpenters and Taylors may impose hands why may not Ministers but the former have done it Ergo. 2 All the Ordinations that ever I saw in New England were performed with imposition of hands I have seene Deacons ordained thus 3 If you be wiser then the Elders in New England Answ to the 32. que p. 67. Survey of Church Dise p. 2. p. 74. and Master Hooker then over-throw them for they conceive it nearest to the institution 4 If you observe the examples in the New Testament which are our Guides in Church affaires we shall finde Ordinations have been thus performed as Acts 6.6 Act. 13.3 1 Tim. 4.14 1 Tim. 5.22 Heb. 6.2 Laying on of hands Which place by Classicall men Congregationall men and Separatists is interpreted of Ordination I doe not here bring in the practise of Churches in former times because I intend not to handle the controversie Whether imposition of hands be necessarily required in ordination but bring you in as many examples from Scripture where there were Ministers Ordained without imposition of hands as also the practise of other true Churches Orthodox and sound who doe Ordaine without c. or else be ashamed of your ignorance and charge not those men with errour where none was but a true following the patterne The substance and essence then of Ordination being this That persons qualified Ministerially be set apart or separated for the worke of the Ministry by persons in Office ordinarily it must be thus what may be done extraordinarily when no Officers can be had is another case the Ministers in England have that Ordinance for the substance and they have the election and consent of the people it is hardly to be supposed that every individuall person in a Parish will consent to every godly Minister but consent there is hence these two concurring to the Call which is the forme of a Minister many Presbyteriall Ministers are true Ministers I dare say more but I am sure now I save my selfe But I have not done with Ordination yet I shall meet with it once againe afterwards Let us now come and try the second ground for separation scil The Worship of God the fault here must be reduced to one of these three heads either 1 Because they cannot enjoy all the Ordinances of God in these Churches Or 2 Because the Ordinances of God are mixed with humane inventions that they cannot partake of them without sinne Or 3 Because here are other Ordinances set up in the Churches then ever Christ did institute I cannot conceive any more For the first Suppose it were so that there were a defect of some Ordinances is that a sufficient ground for separation Mr. Hooker saith no. If a Father of a Family wants a Rod in his house The preface to Survey of Church Discip is it ergo no family there may be some disorder in the house for want of good Government yet a family Divers Divines of great note conceive by that text Nehem. 8.17 18. That the Church of the Jewes did omit the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles almost the space of a thousand yeares the Arke was absent from the Tabernacle from the time of Eli to the time of David 1 Sam. 4.11 compared with 2 Sam. 6 17. and it was a great fault the Scribes rejected the Baptisme of John but where doe you finde any separation all this while that the godly should not joyne with that Church and partake in what Ordinances they had But this objection hath no place in these Churches for Prayer Preaching Administration of the Sacraments yea Discipline they had in the Episcopall dayes they did suspend from the Lords Supper and the Bishops gave the Ministers power but suspension is the lesser Excommunication and now to be sure there are none wanting at least should not be if the Ministers were not hindred in setting up all the Ordinances Obj. No say you the Classicall Churches have no explicite Covenant for the forme of them they will not admit it into their Churches therefore we separate I shal meet with this in another place only for the present disprove what Mr. Hooker hath said and the former examples I have given you but yet you will have a hard peece of work to prove this to be a sufficient ground for your separation as afterwards I hope I shall make good For the second Humane mixtures in Ordinances This indeed was the ground of the old Separatists yet in those dayes many holy and learned Divines wrote against the Separation but in these dayes that stumbling blocke is removed and this let me say that if you read over all the Church-stories since there was a Church upon the earth there cannot be found any example of such separatists as are now amongst us the old Donatists had their Ministers yea Bishops as well as Presbyters the separate Churches of later dayes had their Ministers and how strictly did they maintaine and practise all those Ordinances which ours laugh at as singing of Psalmes Infant-Baptism observation of the Sabbath and such opinions as those learned and godly men Mr. Ainsworth Robinson Johnson did abhorre are swallowed downe among ours so that these men cannot ground their practice from any example heretofore and as for the Scripture if they can finde any grounds there I must confesse I am altogether ignorant in the Scripture Suppose there should be some human mixtures though for my part I know of none are all the Ordinances so polluted preaching and prayer were kept pure in the Episcopall dayes
but was at first a notorious wretch ' a mock-God Captaine of Drunkards who coming into the Church as the Minister was in prayer God brake his heart and followed it on so as he became an eminent Saint Object They mixe with us in our singing mixed worship we cannot joyne in Answ I cannot conceive what harm this can do to you is the mixing of your owne corruption in your service lesse prejudiciall to the acceptance of it with God then the presence of wicked men joyning in the service If indeed you can prove to me that God will not have wicked men sing but if they doe he will not accept of the service of his people this is some ground for your exception but I conceive you will not be able to prove the former much lesse the latter That wicked men may sing I prove thus First If wicked men may pray unto God as the light of nature teaches then they may praise God the light of nature teaches this also nature teaches me to pray to God for what I want and nature teaches me to praise God for what I receive If then naturall men may praise God with their mouths for praise must bee expressed with tongue or pen if you take it properly as I said before why not by singing God hath given this gift to them as well as to others But that to praise God is a part of naturall worship and belongs to all men we may conceive by the example of the Philistims Judg. 16.23 They met to offer a great sacrifice to Dagon and to rejoyce because of Sampson Here is a day of Thanksgiving so 1 Chron. 10.9 because Saul was slaine c. If we goe to the Romans we shall finde nature had taught them to sing to their feigned gods Godw. Rom. Ant. l. 2. s 2. c. 19 not to transcribe their rites in their sacrifices After the portion layed out for the gods had beene burnt then did all the people repaire to a common feast where as they were eating they sung hymnes and songs in the praise of their gods and playing on Cymbals they danced about the Altars intimating thereby that there was no part of their body but should be imployed in the service of their gods c. If nature taught the Romans to sing hymnes and songs to their feigned and foolish gods why should wicked men be debarred from singing to the true God 2. We finde Exod. 15.1 Moses and the sonnes of Israel sang a song to the Lord in v. 12. Miriam bids the women sing I doubt not but among these sonnes and daughters of Israel there were persons as corrupt as any in our Congregations then the presence of wicked men doe not so defile you or the Ordinance as is supposed to themselves indeed it was polluted as are all other things but this hindred not Moses nor Miriam they did not separate all those who were godly from the rest and sing onely with them I doubt they should have had but few songsters 3. May a wicked man read a Psalme or one of those songs give me a reason why not Will you debarre a wicked man from reading the word If he may read a Psalme why may not he sing the Psalme To read the word is worship so to sing the Psalme is worship It is true he cannot sing as hee should no more he cannot read the Psalme as he should nor heare c. therefore he must not read nor heare the word To sing is we see taught by the light of nature as well as the other to pray read or heare the word This Ordinance is not as the Sacraments which we doe not see so by natures light but have them by divine Institution revealed having also a sealing nature annexed to them 4. We finde the word calling upon all sorts of persons to praise God Psal 96.1 Sing unto the Lord all the earth Psal 68.32 Sing unto the Lord all the Kingdomes of the earth c. Severall such texts we finde I might adde more Arguments and answer to some objections but I content my selfe with these Object But they mixe with us in the Lords Supper Answ That the presence of others defile you especially if you have done your duty to keepe that Ordinance cleare is a thing that our Congregational men utterly deny those who are acquainted with their workes may see it often mentioned therefore I quote none 2. I wil be bold to say there are many Presbyterial Ministers who have as few wicked men at that Ordinance as were in the Church of Corinth There were more matters of exception in that Church for the Sacrament of the Lords Supper then are in abundance of these Churches besides you see what course they did take to keep that Ordinance clear and when they could not obtain what they desired of the Civil power yet they resolved to goe further which gave Mr. Prynne occasion to write against them 3. I doubt if we examine things well your selves are most to blame in that for which you separate Suppose you be in a Congregationall Church and have all things as you desire if there be any person there who falls scandalously that he deserves to be suspended from the Ordinance I pray tell me what method will you take I am sure the method is this If thy Brother offend tell him if he heare thee not take two if not tell the Church Matth. 18. What shall the Minister alone suspend him it may be he knows not of it when no Witnesse comes in against him No sure yea suppose a Minister saw a man drunke one of his Members and none saw him or knew it but himselfe he deales indeed with this Member but the man denyeth it he said he was not the Minister is sure he was drunke but wants witnesse the man comes to the Supper denying the thing though the Minister had wished him privately to forbeare shall the Minister now debarre him No sure the text laies another method the Minister must not be the sole Witnesse and Judge too For if Ministers may debarre upon their own heads without Witnesse they may soone doe strange things now have you done thus dealt with the Person or two of you gone to the Minister and told him you know such things by such persons which you can and will prove such things as if not repented of make him unfit for the Ordinance See Master Barro Hos cap. 5. v. 3. and hath the Minister yet received him if he hath you have discharged your duty and no guilt lyeth on you you may partake I doubt there are few have done-thus but if they be persons of quality especially then you pull in your hornes afraid to appeare but yet you will have the Minister to suspend him when no Witnesse comes in contrary to the rule or else you separate this blame will lye on your owne heads All your shift here is we have no power to deale with men we want an explicite
with this logicall affection of an Adjunct and the other with the affection of a formall cause I should put most upon that where the Scripture is plainest and fullest which I am sure in any mans esteeme that observes those Texts with an impartiall eye is ordination Whether Ordination according to Scripture-light be not as essentiall to a Minister as Election Vind. chu Cath. vis let any one judge I thinke Mr. Hudson speakes Christianly I preferre one Divine Testimony before ten arguments and one good argument before ten humane Testimonies But thus by cloathing these Scriptures with these logicall affections we have cried up election and cryed downe Ordination sectaries take advantage of this and hence come in our disorders Ordination is a Divine institution Ars est in rebus and Logicke is a generall Art so that we must give some logical terms to Election and Ordination I deny not this onely it is good to bring Art to Scripture and not carry Scripture to Art If you aske what logicall Arguments are there betweene a Ministers call and Election and Ordination I said before these two constitute the form of a Minister mutatâ affectione mutatur argumentum Survey par 2. pag. 68. in 4 praec what if I should answer The Call is Totum integrale Election and Ordination are membra constituting this Totum Thus I make Election to be essentiall and so I speake the highest of Election though I must professe upon serious thought I rather question whether Election be essentiall then I doe Ordination Reverend Mr. Hooker indeed saith Ordination is but the approbation of a person constituted in his office but I am apt to thinke Ordination doth most respect that inward or Arcanam vocationem as Zanchy calls it which God gives a man into the Ministry fitting and qualifying of a man first for the worke which none else can do and giving him an earnest desire to the worke God did there as it were separate him inwardly and now he doth it outwardly in Ordination The particular Congregation doth but give him a Call by their election and subjection to him to exercise this power among them pro hic nunc That which moves me to thinke so is First Churches may not choose whom they list as doe our Sectaries but persons qualified by God Secondly the Scripture is so full and cleare for Ordination over it is for Election though I deny not but Election may well bee proved Thirdly because a man may in some cases be ordained to the Ministry when no election of the people doth precede as I shall give instance afterward 2. I argue thus If the election of the people doth give the essentials to an officer then may a man elected execute all officiall power without ordination and that commonly But no man may execute officiall power and that commonly without ordination ergo election doth not give the essentialls by the essentials here he meanes the formall cause for as for the materiall cause they cannot give that and we have but two causes that doe dare essentiam though all foure doe dare esse The consequence is cleare that they may execute c. without ordination for forma dat operari but election gives the forme say these Reverend men and ordination is but an Adjunct effects doe not depend upon Adjuncts for operation the forme gives that The minor that they must not doe so First it is crosse to Scripture presidents if it were but a Deacon Survey part 3. pag. 9. saith Mr. Hooker yet we see he was ordained Secondly It is crosse to your owne practise it is frequent in New England to have a man elected and preach halfe a yeare a whole yeare yea I know one elected and preached two yeares to his people and they maintained him all that while and yet all that time he never administred a Sacrament to his people but he and they when they would partake of the Lords Supper went ten miles to the Church out of which they issued to receive the Sacrament but this was very hard and needlesse if he had the forme given him in election 2. That which doth nextly invest a man with official power so as now he may performe officiall acts and before which he could not doe so that doth give essence and consequently is not a meer adjunct But Ordination doth nextly invest a Minister with official power so as now he may perfome official acts which before he could not doe ergo The minor is clear by the Scripture examples Secondly it is clear by your owne practise for those who for two yeares and more stood onely by election but that while dispensed no Sacraments when they were ordained did presently put forth all official acts The major take all together I suppose will not be denied it doth nextly invest a man with official power so as now he can performe official acts and before he could not doe it to say he had official power before given him by election but could not act it is strange frustra est illa potentia c. had such a person continued twice as long unordained he had not executed any official power nay his preaching all that time was not esteemed preaching by way of office Neither can it be said such preach onely upon triall for I now speake of such as had beene tried before nay have beene preachers in England long before they went over and such I am sure as the people would willingly had them ordained within one month after they had chosen them they were so well satisfied in the persons whom they had chosen Fourthly it is something that solemnity the Scripture expresseth that was in the ordination of Ministers prayer and fasting and imposition of hands we read of no such solemnity in election though people ought to pray before they doe choose So it was in New England this act was very solemne when notice was given of the ordination of an officer to the severall Churches as before any ordination all the Churches adjacent had notice given it ran in that forme There is an Ordination to be this weeke at such a Church c. for the election of the person we knew it long before whom they had chosen and though the people did by their suffrage declare their election in this day of Humiliation yet they declared no more then the Country knew before and I hope you will not say he was not elected before now when first they chose him to goe with them or come to them and there continued a yeare or two preaching they contributing to his maintenance the same I might say in regard of myself I had as ful an election of my people at my first coming as was declared at my ordination and it was above two years before I could get my ordination in the place where I was elected through the troubles of the times but all that while I did not conceive my selfe invested with
be said what need of that Ordination they may preach without It is true they may but it is not so comfortable as when men are set apart by a Divine institution there is an authority more conferred they may now baptize as they finde successe of their Ministry which was the old way and shal not need be put to those troubles which now they are Suppose laborious Mr. Eliot were not ordained who should baptize the Indians called home to Christ by him The first preachers that came into England were ordained before elected here as suppose they should convert divers Indians forty or fifty miles from any Plantation how shall these be baptised what shall they now elect and ordaine these men shall unbaptised persons ordaine an Officer where have we a rule for that then it seemes all these must come to another Church c. forty or fifty miles distant to a Church also whose language they understand not and there be baptised by a Minister whom they understand not nor he them Here are many odde things fall in crosse to all Scripture presidents but to have these ordained and sent forth is not crosse to the Scripture presidents but if this be granted then Ordination without election may give the essentials to an Officer But further here you say election gives the essentials I beseech you what shall we doe then with all those Scriptures where ordination is held out so fully shall we omit them if they containe but an Adjunct No I am sure this gracious Saint would not doe so his heart was so awed with high thoughts of God and his Word that he dared not omit such a Divine institution as those Scriptures hold out are then those six or seven Scriptures alledged for ordination as necessary to a Ministers Call as those three which are brought for election if not I pray give a reason why some Scriptures should be lesse set by then others in this nature Divine Authority we acknowledge in both but this was far from this reverend mans thoughts for we see him prove Church-Discipline to be a fundamentall point of Religion from imposition of hands then if these Scriptures be equally as necessary to the constitution of a Minister that none must dare to omit them we doe but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in saying that ordination is but an Adjunct c. In constituted Churches those who omit ordination goe crosse to those many texts of Scripture they follow not the patterne Some I know make little of election but I would give it the most and so sin against the second Commandement as do they who go crosse to the texts for election and if election in an extraordinary case may serve without a formall ordination in the like case may ordination be without election and so we are even Further in answer to the Argument they are Relates suppose I should say The election of the people gives a part of the essence to the Officer for so we considered the Call of a Minister to be a Totum arising out of election and ordination as Doctor Ames it may be you will say Relata quà sic doe not give a part of the essence but the whole here then will be our trouble whether we must bring Scripture to Logick or carry our Logick to Scripture why then doe not Ministers act officially upon bare election as I said before But it is answered their election gives the essence as he is their Minister but ordination gives the essence as he is a Minister Mr. Hudson hath spoken closly to this Vind. Chur. Cathol visâ—â— p. 138. ad 151. for ordination doth invest a Minister with power to act beyond those who have called him giving him an habituall power in actu primo to exercise and performe the Acts belonging to his Office elsewhere upon a Call I know indeed our New England Divines many I say not all as wel as reverend Mr. Hooker are of another opinion That a man is an Officer only to his own particular Congregation Relatorum mutuum est iter but suppose I should say A Minister bears an habitual relation to the whole Church-Catholick visible which some of our Divines doe now I thinke strongly prove for my part I could never swallow that notion that a Pastor preaches only as a Pastor to those who elected him and to other Churches as a gifted Brother I dare boldly affirme in the Apostles times and the purest Ages next them this notion was never heard As for this notion of a Catholick visible Church I have not so much busied my head about it till of late in my weak judgement I think there is so much said for it by Mr. Hudson especially and others that I suppose it will not easily be answered that which made me leane to this opinion was First the light which his Scriptures and Arguments bring along with them 2 I did not see by this notion that the people were at all defrauded of what is properly theirs they may elect officers they may have power to bring in testimony to exclude unworthy communicants yea or may object against any who should be admitted Church-members if Churches were in their first constituting if they knew good reason why they should not be admitted neither are they debarred from consenting with their officers in excommunication I say I doe not see but these priviledges may consist with this notion 3. Mr. Huds vind 160. 161. Let particular churches walk as they should regularly and they have as much liberty as they can desire if they walk irregularly See Mr. Cottons Keyes 53.54 the second Impression I saw this notion did not crosse that Position which I have held out viz. That a particular Church organized and walking regularly may execute all the power of the Keyes within it self I see not how a particular Church in this case is at all hindred for such a Church to walke irregularly and to claime exemption from all other Church-power let those that will be members of such Churches I desire not to be so but in such Churches where there may bee meanes to helpe a wicked heart 4. In this notion I saw a way how Congregations that have no Ministers may have Ministers ordained successively by officers which I am sure was the old way yea and officers may be judged per pares and excommunicated I saw it would bring in much order into Churches 5. The practises I observed in New England that did imply such a notion as this did lead me much to it 1. As that members of one Church did so frequently partake of the Sacraments both the Lords Supper and Baptisme in other Churches one Pastor it may be might administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper to the members of five or six Churches at one time I know it is often said that a Mayor of one Corporation may administer justice to the members of another Corporation if they be under his jurisdiction but he
must not goe to them but similia ad pompam non ad pugnam The Analogie betweene a Commonwealth and the Church will not hold as I may touch afterward but this I am sure according to that practise that seven make a Church they may admit five or six whole Churches and a Pastor chosen by none of them may administer the Sacrament to them all at one time but doe we finde whole Corporations goe to the Mayor of another Corporation for Justice Mr. Philips Pastor of the Church in Water-town while Mr. Wilson Pastor of the Church of Boston was here in England went to Boston and administred the Lords Supper to that Church I was not then in the Country but I heard of it soone after when I went over with Mr. Wilson I know no sin in that act I thought to have given some Instances how frequent this was in the Primitive Churches Vind. Cath. Ã 192 ad 196 for one Minister to act officially beyond the people who elected him But Mr. Hudson a man far more able hath set down those examples which I would have given and many more to whom I referre the Reader Yea it was ordinary for the members of one Church to dwell one or two yeares nay six or seven yeares in another Towne and to partake of the Sacraments there as frequently as any of the members of that Church Indeed of late the Elders have not liked this to have them live so remote from the inspection of their owne officers and therefore have required such to joyne with the Church where they dwell this is good and orderly The letters also of Recommendation which the Churches make for the members when they come over hither requiring of the Churches here what communion counsell or comfort they shall need promising the performance of the like debt to others c. 2. Also I saw if a man were excommunicated out of one Church he stood excommunicated out of them all but if a man be disfranchised in one Corporation another Corporation may receive him and give him his freedome if they please this shews there is something more in a Church then in a Commonwealth 3. I saw they preached frequently in other Churches but that it should be onely as gifted brethren this is so harsh to conceive I pray what act doth the mayor of one Corporation do in another Corporation like this that carries authority in it and that here we must distinguish of the Mayor if he did this at home he did it as a Mayor authoritatively but in this Corporation he doth it as a private man Further they are Ministers or Pastors onely to those who elect and the fraternity only elect where there is no officer but there are divers in the severall Townes who are not joyned to the Churches so they did not elect then it seemes they preach as pastors onely to those who elected but to the rest of the Towne as gifted men consequently when God blesses their labours to the conversion of any of those they convert them instrumentally not as Ministers of Christ ordained separated to that worke but onely as gifted men yea they never convert any as Ministers unlesse some of those who elected them be close hypocrites and so they convert them but ordinarily those who choose are reputed godly already and they are Ministers only to them Hence rises that vile notion that some here have taken up That Pastors should preach onely to the edification of the Saints not to others 4. I have heard since I came away that when people have chosen an Officer and had no Officers to ordaine him that the Ministers of other Congregations have done it and the Confession of Church-discipline by the Synod of New England as also Mr. Hooker Survey part 2. pag. 59. allow as much 5. If one Congregation should prove pertinaciously scandalous and hereticall then though they doe not formally excommunicate such a Congregation yet all the Churches in the Country would proceed to the Non-communion of such a Church and for all the Churches to expresse so much to such a Church We do all renounce communion with you c. this amounts to a censure and is equivalent to excommunication containing in it all the effects that appear in excommunication and so I should reckon my selfe as much excommunicated Mr. Burroughs saith They may by a solemne act in the name of Christ Iren. 43. refuse any communion with them till they repent They may declare in the name of Christ that these erring Churches are not to be received into fellowship with any Churches of Christ nor to have communion one with another in the Ordinances of Christ all this solemnly in Christs name Onely some may be will say if this be an Ordinance of Christ bring out the texts to prove this and then we shall see if those texts wil not beare it out that the Churches united thus in this censure have not some authority over that particular Church If you goe to the old politie the Synedrion had power over particular Congregations if to light of nature that will carry it so that we must have texts to decide this Question For my part I must leave this to better heads Laying all together the Churches seeme to pactise as if there were such a Church Some things there are which a little trouble me in this notion that make me not come off so roundly in receiving it I question not the Church-catholicke-visible but I meane that it is one organicall body but as he said Veritas est temporis filia so I beleeve Time will cleave out this but so much I see as commands me to lean to that side I was thinking how dangerous this might prove If the major part of the Catholick-visible-church should decline grow superstitious c. other Churches yet remaining pure if they did not subject to the major part what then but I saw inconveniences also on the other side if a Congregation be so entire that they can elect ordaine and are exempted from all power then Arians Photinians and all manner of Hereticks may elect ordaine c. who shall deny them and besides suppose the major part of Congregationall Churches should decline they would proceed to Non-communion of other particular Churches more pure and this is in a manner all one Further If so then if a Minister be removed from one Congregation to another or if his people should dye he now is but a private person and may nor baptise c. Hence also he must have another ordination when elected and as oft as he is elected I have not heard any there but here alleadge it I confesse I am not cleare in the practise I have searched to finde what Scripturall grounds there were for it but I find none that these Reverend Elders expresse some have alleadged in conference that Act. 13.3 Paul and Barnabas were ordained before and now they are ordained againe but I finde Mr.
or three yeares together in secunda Epist and Episc orient Hence also care was taken afterwards that none but Bishops should make this the Presbyters must not dare to doe it Sylvester in Concil Rom. Also holy Vestures for the Ministers to be used onely in the Churches many of ours never owned these Epist Steph ad Hil. all have cast them away Also in the Lords Supper the mixing of water with the wine which how ever some say it was because of the hot Countries yet Alexander who they say was the first that mixed water with wine Epist ad omnes Ortho. Apol. 2. doth not give that reason but because water and blood came out of Christs side In Justin Martyrs time it seemes this was their manner also but this was not the Institution Also we find severall Church-officers among them as appears by Gaius Bishop of Rome who ordered that all the orders in the Church must ascend from the door-keeper to the Bishop Ostiarius Lector Exorcista Acolythus Subdiaconus Diaconus Presbyter Episcopus The ordination of these Officers with their Ceremonies are after set downe in the fourth Councel of Carthage If the Decretals of Gaius be of any Authority all these were in primitive Churches before Constantine came to the Empire More things I might adde but I forbeare And though there were many glorious Martyrs yet all their Church-members were not such many did yeeld to the heathenish Idolatry when persecution began yea and there were foul sins among them Churches as Adultery Whoredome yea even among those who had beene Confessors as Cyprian affirmes ingemiscimus saith he to see it drunkennesse swearing and what not as any one may well gather who is but a little versed in Antiquity De unita Eccles and by reading over the Canons made in their Councels we may learne what they were troubled with As for the Ministers they also were ordained by Bishops though they were not such lordly ones as ours were with Presbyters joyning with them this no man can deny that knows any thing of those times whence then I am bold to affirme that if there were true Ministers and true visible Churches in those times even while they were under persecuting heathenish Emperours then there are true Ministers and true visible Churches now in England and if there be none now neither were there any in those times but I thinke no man is so impudent to deny that there were true Ministers and Churches in those times I plead now for many Presbyteriall Ministers and their Congregations So I have done with my second Argument which if I should draw into forme it runnes thus If there were true Ministers and true visible Churches in the first three hundred yeares after Christ then there are true Ministers and visible Churches now in England But the Antecedent is true ergo the consequent is true Some we have that dote they tell us they expect men to be sent from God and endued with extraordinary gifts as were the Apostles c and these are the men who shall set up Churches and reforme us Good Lord whither will our vile hearts carry us if thou dost leave them These persons are not worth the answering but yet let me say a little to them and so passe on to the chiefe thing I intend For the gift of Tongues I need not speake what is necessary God hath given to most and many excell in that gift For Miracles I They were given but for that time to help on the worke of the Ministry as sauce doth meat but now if God doth that by the Ministry of his Servants without Miracles which he did then by the Ministry accompanied with Miracles viz. Convert Edifie Formalize c. this doth but more confirme our Ministry and prove that God ownes these despised Ministers The plaine word preached hath made as good Christians as preaching and Miracles 2 If any Body hath need of the gift of Miracles then Master Eliot in New England hath who now preaches to the Indians and others with him but God carrieth on his worke amongst the Indians without miracles 3 Doe not you your selves beleeve the Scriptures to be the Word of God if so what need have you of such kinde of persons so gifted The greatest Miracle which I desire to confirme me in the truth of the Scriptures is to finde the power of Christ his Death and Resurrection in my heart without which I care not for miracles But enough for these There are others who having been Members of an Independent Church where divisions have fallen out and so have broke in peeces they have said that Ministers are not fitted with a spirit of Government to keep Churches in order and therefore these are not times as yet for such Reformation I answer 1 The more shame for your Church-Members who are of such proud and turbulent spirits that godly and able Ministers are not able enough to governe them those who come into Church Communion with the awe of God upon their hearts we can governe them some such spirits we finde among the Independents but if we could see more it would be better 2 I wonder not at your Divisions when I see what Principles some godly Congregationall men have gone by for the ordering of their Church Government 3 Your Argument is as strong against the Apostles for there were Heresies and Schismes in their dayes But I leave these and return to that from whence I have made a digression Having then proved there are true Ministers and Churches in England let us examine the grounds why these men separate from these Ministers and Churches I conceive their grounds may be referred to one of these heads Either to The Ministers Either to Or Worship Either to Or the Congregation Either to Or the place of meeting If there be any thing else that cannot so well be reduced to one of these yet I am sure I shall meet with it before I have done For the Ministers they are indeed made the Dung of England who are more scorned then they especially the Presbyteriall men be they never so holy or learned Whether there be just cause in respect of men I leave it to God to judge I am sure when Ministers were in honour we found the Word had good effect but since they came to be thus scorned little good hath been done I deny not but God may have a just quarrell against us and give me leave without offence to propound the Reasons why 1 The first I had rather conceale because I should seem to spy out a mote in my Fathers and Brethrens eyes when I have a beame in my owne but therefore I rather propound it as I heard it from a Reverend and judicious Divine a man of a gracious and moderate spirit Mr. Nathaniel Rogers in New England I was talking with him there when the newes came of the Covenant that England and Scotland entred into the thing pleased him and all our
any power invested with Authority but if they injoyne a thing to bee done and it be refused that Authority will reach further Authoritas cogit as is the kind of the Authority Civill or Ecclesiasticall Blessed Burroughs in answering to that which some would have Iren. p. 44. scil that a Synod may formally excommunicate because by excommunication they i.e. Hereticall Churches are put out of the Kingdome of Christ into the Kingdome of Satan and this will terrifie saith consider whether this be not done before and that with an authority of Christ by those former six things mentioned in the page before for Hereticall Congregations or persons are judged and declared in a solemn Ordinance by the Officers of Christ gathered together in his name to be such as have no right to any Church Ordinance to have no Communion with any of the Churches of Christ now if this judgement be right are not such persons or Congregations put out of the Kingdome of Christ and put under the power of Satan consequently Certainly this cannot be a ground of such difference shall Non and Ex make such a stir when Non is as bad as Ex I should judge my self I am sure to be in as bad a case by the one as the other though for my part this notion of Catholike-visible-Church hath made me ready to yeeld to Synods juridicall power I could I say yeeld it and yet not differ from these reverend Divines if they follow home their non-communion close Now if you say what doth this helpe against Hereticall Congregations though you have proceeded to Non-communion they regard it not but still go on in their Heresies and leaven others to that they wil say what do they care for your excommunication if all the Hereticks in England were excommunicated they would not care but go on still Indeed our New England Divines will teach us a way how to helpe it viz. if a Synod hath declared against an Hereticall Congregation being pertinacious and so hath proceeded to non-communion they will call in the Civil power to help and so they have a way to help by their non-communion and this must be the help of them though they be excommunicated This Mr. Norton intimates Resp ad Apol. 148 Keyes 50 Iren. c. 4. Mr. Marshal relates that Zuinglius in a publick dispute did so stop the mouthes of the Anabaptist that they appearing to the Magistrates unreasonably obstinate were banish d the City Defen ag Tomb. 58. Ecclesiae appellant Magistratum in causis Ecclesiae non ad doctrinam declarandam vel disciplinam exequendam sed ad doctrinam a Cencilio declaratam vel disciplinam ab ecclesiâ applicatam sanctione Civili confirmandam The dury which Mr. Cotton sheweth to lye upon the Civill Magistrate inferres as much As also Mr. Burroughs And thus it was in New England when the Synod at which the Civill Power was present as to hear so to keep civill order had consuted and condemned the Errors and Heresies and so was broke up then a Generall Court was called which soon suppressed those Heresies and brought the Churches to peace again If the Civill power would do as much here we should soon see our Churches in better order What Civill Magistrates have done in this ease before I need not mention books are full It s true the Churches were when there was no Civill Power to defend them but oppose them but we can finde how many Heresies and Schismes they were then troubled with shall the Church be in no better case under a Christian Civill Power Nursing-Fathers then at that time 6 Doe the Classicall godly men looke upon their Congregations having visible Saints among them to be true visible Churches so doe the Congregationall men judge them also I gave instance before 7 Would then the Classical brethren have their members being such as have right to the Ordinance to partake with Congregational Churches in the Lords Supper to shew their communion certainly so they ought but why Congegationall men doe refuse godly men members of Classicall Churches not admitting them to the Lords Supper when they have desired it is very strange to me I wish our reverend Brethren would give us solid grounds for this practice for it gives offence and that justly a Preface to survey ch dis Mr. Hooker and b Iren. p. 266. Mr. Burroughs have both said they should be admitted Shal a Church be acknowledged to be a true Church where Doctrine and Worship is pure also this person a member of it a visible Saint it may be a real Saint and shall he be denyed communion 8 For Classes Pref. surv ch dis the Congregationall men say Consociation of Churches is not onely lawfull but in some cases necessary So Mr. Hooker Mr. Cotton speakes fully to this Keyes p. 54 55. weighty matters such as Election and ordination of Elders excommunication of an Elder or any person of publike note the translation of an Elder from one Church to another it is an holy Ordinance to proceed with common consultation and consent I suppose thus much might have beene obtained of the Classical-brethren that though in cases of weight as excommunication they would not have such an Ordinance carried on by one Minister but have the thing seriously examined first and debated in a Classis yet when the thing had beene concluded upon they would leave the execution of the sentence to the officer or officers of the Church where the case lyeth If so much might be obtained I should be very farre from opposing a Classis I would not willingly live without one I know of no other material point of difference as for the first subject of the power of the Keyes that is but a notion though its true much practise depends upon it yet I finde not that our Divines here would have the fraternity to be the first subject by their owning of Mr. Cotton his booke of the Keyes for Mr. Cotton makes a Church organized to bee the first subject and not the Fraternity as is apparent in divers places of that booke The summe is I wonder at our differnces well might that worthy Divine say in his letter to me from New England It s the wonderment of this side of the world that you that are godly and may agree yet will not surely the cause lyeth more in the Will then any thing else Give me leave therefore I pray to make my humble request to our Reverend Divines the Congregational-men that they would please to close in with the Classical brethren and not suffer these groundlesse differences to trouble the Churches any longer If you aske Why doe you make your request to us are we the cause why they are not bealed I cannot thinke the cause lyes onely in the Ministers nay I have heard long since there had been an agreement among the Ministers had not some others that live by divisions broken it but whether all Ministers are of the
Separation Examined OR A TREATISE VVherein the grounds for Separation from the Ministry and Churches of England are weighed and found too light The practise proved to be not onely unwarrantable but likewise so hurtful to the Churches that Church-Reformation cannot with any comfort go forward so long as such Separation is Tolerated Also an humble request presented to the Congregational Divines that since the differences between them and the Classical-Divines are very small they would please to strike in with the Classical-Divines in carrying on the worke of Reformation before the Inundation of these corrupt Opinions have destroyed both Ordinances and Religion By Gi. Firmin Minister to the Church in Shalford in Essex 1 Cor. 1.10 Now I beseech you brethren by the name of our Lord Iesus Christ that yee all speake the same thing and that there be no Schismes among you Judicabit autem eosqui schismata operantur qui sunt immanes non habentes Dei dilectionem suamque utilitatem potius considerantes quà m unitatem Ecclesiae propter modicas quaslibet causas magnum gloriosum corpus Christi conscindunt dividunt c. Irenae l. 4. c. 62. Cavenda sunt autem fratres dilectissimi non solum quae sunt aperta manifesta sed astutae fraudis subtilitate fallentia c. haeteses invenit schismata quibus subverteret fidem veritatem corrumperet scinderet unitatem Cypr. de unit Eccles LONDON Printed by R. I. for Stephen Bowtell at the Bible in Popes-head-Alley 1652. The Contents THere are true visible Churches in England pag. 1 There is a true Gospel-Ministry in England pag. 4. The grounds of Separation must be either in the Ministry Worship Congregation or Place of meeting p. 12 The Ordination of the Ministers by Bishops can be no ground for Separation p. 22 There can be no ground in the Worship being singing of Psalms is here touched p. 32 There can be no ground in the Congregation though many wicked persons be there Nor in the place of meeting p. 39 The Proposals of the Separatists what they would have are set downe and answers returned as 1 They would have Ministers lay downe their former Call and joyne with them then they it may be will elect them and ordaine them where this question is handled p. 46 Quest Whether election only gives the essentials to a Minister and Ordination be but an Adjunct p. 50 Whether the People have power to Ordaine p. 70 Whether the Fraternity be the first subject of the power of the Keys briefly touched p. 73 2 They will have an explicite Covenant which they call the forme of a Church p. 81 3 No Church-Members but visible Saints p. 82 4 Power in Admissions and Excommunications p. 83 5 Liberty to Prophesie p. 84 6 Liberty of Conscience p. 88 How it appeares that Church-reformation cannot with comfort proceed so long as the Separation is Tolerated p. 91 The Separatists are no such-friends to the Civill Power as is pretended p. 94 The Questions propounded to the Separatists in reference to their Separation p. 97 The agreements and differences with and between the Classicall and Congregationall Divines are reviewed their agreements found to be many their differences very few p. 100 Whence an humble request is presented to the Congregationall Divines speedily to joyne with the Classicall Divines backed with seven reasons p. 108 To the Reverend the Ministers of London the Authors of the Vindication of the Presbyteriall Government and Ministry c. Printed 1650. Fathers and Brethren THe goodnesse of God manifested of old to England in causing the Sun of his Gospel to rise early upon this Nation and to finde such entertainment in the hearts of the Supreame Power that it was the first Nation that ever received the Gospell with the countenance of publick Authority having the first Christian King that ever was is knowne to the whole Christian world his goodnesse in these latter dayes since he tooke from our necks the Anti-christian yoke hath been also wonderfull honouring the Ministers of his Gospel with such Holinesse Learning Ministeriall abilities and successe in their labour in converting many and setting up the power of godlinesse in this Nation that he hath not honoured any Nation more nay without pride it may be spoken his Free Grace hath not honoured any Nation so much in these respects as this English Nation but now in our dayes the Ministry which God hath thus honoured is as much dishonoured and that by such who cannot but acknowledge their owne mouthes have spoken it that what Spirituall good they have received it was wrought by the Ministry and now we finde scorning deriding separating from the Ministry and many not so much as stepping over their thresholds to heare them who were the first instruments of their good if they have any as some we hope have and yet the Ministers are the same they were before yea some repenting that ever they bestowed so much paines and time to follow the Minister as one that lives but foure or five miles from Dedham hath said He repented that he followed that eminent Servant of God Mr. Rogers so much to heare his preaching While I observed these things and considered into what a sad condition we are fallen and read over your Vindication in which I saw a holy meeke and true Christian spirit breathing calling upon the Congregationall men to joyne with you certainly I thought that Booke deserved a courteous Christian answer from the ablest of our Congregationall men what they have done towards it I know not being little acquainted with affaires abroad being locked up in much sadnesse of spirit at home but I thought with my selfe that being I was numbred among the Independents though I am the weakest and most worthy the holy Lord should turne me out of his holy Work laying other things together which I have mentioned in the Epistle to the Reader I resolved to improve the little Talent the Lord had given me in examining the grounds of these practices and to stand up in the defence of such Ministers who I saw were deare to Christ and whom in holinesse learning and abilities the Lord had honoured farre before my selfe And now my Fathers the quarrell is not only with you because you are Presbyteriall Ministers the quarrell is with the whole Ministry for this spirit hath infected even some in New England and I beleeve will cause more troubles there in those Churches then ever the Bishops did though they threatned them much What are the practices of some and what are the feares of the worthy Ministers there I understand by Letters I doe not I dare not censure the Congregationall Churches here some of the Ministers I know to be holy and reverent I wish I had such grace many Members no doubt are really godly but had I not lived in New England and seene the Churches there by what I heare of divers and what I know by some Churches here
and he was the new creature one of Mrs. Hutchisons followers on a Lords day stood up in the Congregation and would defend it against the learned and reverend Teacher and told him the text was read so in the original If any man be in Christ the new creature 2 Cor. ◠17 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what can these men say to this that know not the Originall nor Grammar both which a man must know to answer this so if another should defend a heresie and tell you the text is so in the Hebrew for the Jesuits subtle and crabbed disputations we must not mention them these men are doubtlesse sufficient not but that I could allow a solid humble experienced orthodox and well-gifted Christian called regularly and set apart to the worke of the Ministry with the neighbour-hood of some learned able Divine to have his recourse to I say I could allow such a one to preach in dark corners of the land But when men will cry out of other Ministers for want of orderly calling separate from them and thus carry themselves that the bones of their ambition sticke out and then through unfoundnesse in opinion though no way able though not regularly called yet they will get into Livings and Pulpits this is abominable So much for Election that part of their calling will hold as for the other requisite Ordination to prove our Ministers have that also for the substance of it here will lye the pinch of the controversie therefore I reserve it for another place Fourthly for the finall cause here also the Ministers will appeare to be true Ministers for conversion and edification the Lord hath honoured the English Ministry with as much successe as any Nation under heaven the Lord hath set seale to hundreds of our Ministers in giving them some soules in conversion and building up many according as are their severall gifts and for a proofe of it let me appeale to your selves who have thus separated from them Cannot you say that you have found God in their Ministry I am sure your owne words must witnesse against divers of you if you deny it for you have acknowledged by them you were first awakened and brought home Now I beseech you consider what you doe you who are the soberest and retaine the savour of God in your hearts If Christ shall say to you Why doe you deny these to be true Ministers I owne them to be such I have qualified them with Ministerial and personal gifts I have sealed to their Ministry by making them my instruments to bring home many and to build up those who were brought home I have often humbled awed cheared refreshed the hearts of my people by them your owne selves who are mine are witnesses of it I found you out by them c. They had their call from the people and though there were some circumstantiall defects in their setting apart to the worke yet those they freely acknowledge and I doe as freely pardon will not my presence with them make up that defect in your hearts still to owne them and reverence them as my Ministers since I doe Now I say what would you answer to the Lord Jesus I doubt not though many have their infirmities as who have not many infirmities yet Christ doth owne them for his Ministers and Paul or the Apostles if they now were alive would not deny it Object If you say that indeed God did goe along with the old Ministers but not with these Answ But the same argument you give against these Ministers from their Ordination doth make as much against these old Ministers as these now living they were no true Ministers neither by your opinion 2. We can say that even with the labours of these Ministers doth Christ goe along though not so much as he did before when the Gospel came first into places for edification we finde it which is one end in that Ephes 4.12 and I pray take heed that your scorning of them be no occasion to hinder their worke for you must answer for it what ever the Decrees of God be So much for my first argument 2. I would use a second argument to prove we have true Ministers c. And here I would propound one question to these men who thus deny the Ministry It is this Were there ever any true Ministers and Churches let me put in them also since the Apostles dayes I hope you will say yes But I pray how long were there such Ministers and Churches in which Century did there cease to be true Ministers and true visible Churches I suppose you will say when Antichrist began here now you would doe us a good turne if you could make it out cleare to us when that was that so we might know how long our miseries shall last if so then to be sure for the first three hundred yeares after Christ which were times of persecution yea and divers yeares after you must grant there were true Ministers Let us then compare our Ministers and Churches with them for our Ministers many are godly as well as those all the Ministers then were not truly gracious I beleeve nay by stories we can learne they were not As for Ministeriall gifts those who have skill to compare the workes and Sermons of our Ministers now with their workes and Homilies shall finde that the Presbyterial Ministers are not behinde them but in opening the doctrines of Free-grace Christ promises which are the glory of the Gospel as also for discovering of Hypocrisie without any dishonour to those Ancients I may say they do excell them For the Churches it is true we know not what we should doe if the Lord should call us to sufferings but this we know the same power which carried them through is able to carry us through for losses of estates leaving of their native Country c. I am sure New England hath gone very far with them for that kinde of suffering and so have some here also yea and for not submitting to superstitious Ceremonies and inventions of men in the worship of God which they even in those times made nothing of How many vaine rites and ceremonies were then used in Baptisme * By Tertul. Cyp. Ep. 59 The kissing of the childe By August time there were many Ceremonies added Symb. ad Catech. l. 4. c. 1. Lib. de Coro mil. Ep. 70.72 Tertul. de Bap. which our Ministers did never owne but were silenced c. for lesse matters yet these were the primitive Churches Besides those Ceremonies in Baptisme there were other strange things used which our Divines never owned I say in those primitive Churches As the Anointing of the baptized As Cyprian It is necessary that the baptized person be anointed c. yea and puts much in it as one may see who reads those Epistles Tertullian also makes mention of this Hence Fabianus ordered that this oyle should be prepared every yeare and reprehended those who kept it two
they doe looke upon abundance of our Presbyteriall Ministers as true Ministers of Christ 2 I know that they will disapprove of the practice of some who have separated from the Ministers whom they have before chosen and the godly Congregations upon this notion as I know some have done I do honour the grace of divers of those Christians who separated but Satan got into an Angel of light and deceived especially from that famous Congregation of Dedham of which I dare say that for a Parochial Congregation there is not the like number of reall and visible Saints in any Congregation in England I am sure there was not before this Separation was made and for the Ministers I speake not of them they are men well knowne I wish I had nothing more to trouble me then to live under that Ministry in that Congregation I hope whereas now I am a sad man I should be as chearfull as any man in England Mr. Burroughs said he could communicate in that Congregation then it seemes hee did not question whether there were any true Ministers Object But if you say Our New England Ministers doe renounce their Ordination which they had here for they are ordained againe Answ See Answ to 32. q. 70 It s true they are ordained againe but I never heard it was upon that ground for let a Minister be ordained there in one Church if there be cause of his removall and so be elected in another Church they ordaine him againe Thirdly I can say this our New England Ministers have often desired and frequently admitted to preach in their Congregations that went from hence but were not ordained there But our Ministers of New England are here judged nothing worth but are as contemptible as any in the mouths of our Separatists yet they are men of worth Secondly I answer to what you say It came through and from the Romish Synagogue If your argument have any force you must cast it thus Those Ministers which stand by a Romish Institution are no true Ministers of Christ But the Ministers of England stand by a Romish Institution Ergo the Ministers of England are no true Ministers of Christ The major you will grant and if we can prove the minor our Ministers shall utterly renounce their Ordination I dare undertake for them but the minor is very false they stand by no Romish Institution for Ordination is none of their inventions but instituted by the Lord Jesus himselfe long before Antichrist was But your Argument runs thus Those Ministers which stand by an Institution of Christ descending to them from the Apostles through the Church of Rome they are no true Ministers of Christ But the Ministers of England stand by an Institution of Christ descending to them from the Apostles through the Church of Rome Ergo They are no true Ministers This is the true meaning of your Argument but the major is very false shall the passing through Rome null the Institutions of Christ did not the Scriptures Sacraments and what ever Ordinances we now have descend to us from the Apostles through Rome Shall we therefore cast them away That Argument runnes as strong against our Baptisme and any other Ordinance with which though the Church of Rome mingled their inventions did they therefore null the Ordinance the vessels that were once dedicated to God by his owne Institution though they were put into the house of Nebuchadnezzars gods and those that were fit very like used by Belshazzar to drinke wine in when he praised the gods c. they were not so much as new cast againe but carried to Jerusalem Ezra 1.7 ad fin I pray what doe you thinke of the judgement of Mr. Johnson a man great I am sure among the brethren of the Separation though the Separatists in our dayes make a tush at the judgement of any man yea although he were of the Separation but yet consider the reasons which swayed him and then judge The case was this One that was a Minister in the Church of England was after chosen Teacher to a separate Congregation without any new Imposing of hands this he undertakes to justifie thus 1 Imposition of hands is of God and not an invention of man It was not a postor threshold first brought by Antichrist into the Temple of God but had therein afore Antichrist sate there 2. Baptisme and Imposition of hands are joyned together among the principles of the foundation spoken of Heb. 6.2 therefore it ought to be regarded 3. Imposition of hands is in the Church of Rome still given to the office of the Ministry and in the name of the Lord as they doe also still administer Baptisme 4. We found not either precept example or ground in the Scripture binding us to the repetition of it 5. The Priests and Levites in Israel becoming unclean when afterward they were cleansed retained still their places of being Priests and Levites and the children of the Priests and Levites succeeding after them â—id administer without a new anointing or new imposition of hands c. Thus then as Mr. Johnson and Mr. Ainsworth opposed Rebaptization because Baptisme is an Ordinance of God which was had in the Church of Rome before she fell into Apostasie and hath been there continued ever since the Apostles times how ever co-mingled with many inventions of their owne so Mr. Johnson defended the Ordination of that Minister which he had in England because Imposition of hands was in the Church of Rome from the Apostles times before her Apostasie and is there continued to this day though mixed with many pollutions of their owne I pray onely note this that whereas I say they stand by their Ordination I doe not meane that onely but also they have the election of the people of which I spake before and that the Separatists cannot deny which yet they make the greatest matter in a Ministers call Thirdly I answer If this argument be of any force it would rather prevaile against the first Reformers as in other Nations so against our first Reformers in England who came newly out of Popery but what is this to us who have beene above ninety yeares out of that bondage and have cast off their Government Worship and Doctrine so farre as Antichristian for a long time but if our first Reformers were able enough to maintaine their call then much more our Ministers Fourthly but if you will throw away all that comes through Rome let us see what course you will take when you have denied all the Ordinances that have beene administred for these ninety yeares in England for if no Ministry then certainly no Authoritative preaching no Sacraments and thus you have renounced yuor Baptisme which you had by these Ministers what method will you take in your Reformation how will you come to be re-baptized you will tell me You will covenant together and then elect and ordaine a Minister and he shall baptize Of this more afterward But
let me examine what you say at present You will covenant together supposing your selves to be Saints first say you so are you Saints by calling how came you to be so what did God call you immediately No you must say many if not all of you who have any truth of grace by the preaching of the word what by those Ministers from whom you separate as no Ministers because of their Ordination hath the Lord so farre owned his despised members as to make them the instruments to bring you to be visible Saints fit to imbody or covenant c and are these now no Ministers are you the effect of their Ministeriall labours and they no Ministers Surely in this one thing you have overthrowne your selves but then you say you will ordaine him this I will consider in its owne place Then he shall baptize but since he did renounce his owne baptisme also who shall baptize him first you must have a Minister to do that to be sure he cannot doe it himselfe nor none of you for you are private persons to administer the Lords Supper before you be baptised is contrary to Scripture rules There was a report when I was in New England that a Carpenter re-baptised Mr. Williams In Iust Mar. time none received the Supper but such as were first baptised Apol. 2. Ius Divi. Apend p. 269. and then he did re-baptize the rest I do not stand to defend the thing whether it be true or no but it was like enough to be true and sutable to the other opinions and practises of that wilde generation Where are we now Fifthly that is very observable which the London Ministers have added in the defence of their Ordination That in this Church of England the corruptions which the Church of Rome would have introduced about Ordination of Ministers and other Ecclesiasticall affaires were withstood and opposed by the Kings of England Nor doe we read of any Ministers that were ordained by any Agents sent from Rome but onely some idle ceremonies of Confirmation or them that were ordained by the Pall and the Ring brought thence into England Thus far the London Ministers In the margent they have set downe the Authours that prove it Sixtly There might be another answer given by some who are good Historians which I confesse I am not wanting both time and such bookes so farre as I can goe I will That the Churches in England were at first rightly gathered and constituted it is not to be doubted Mart. 1. Vol. p. 237 last Edition the instruments of gathering being Apostles or Apostolicall men as is evident by Mr. Fox neither is it to be doubted but they did ordaine officers in the Churches for we read of Ministers and Bishops The land falling to the possession of the Saxons about the yeare 568. p. 147. the Story saith by them all the Clergy and the Christian Ministers of the Britains were then utterly driven out in so much that the Arch-bishops of London and Yorke went into Wales thus long then it seemes the Ministers of England had no ordination from Rome P. 149. this appeares also by Austine who came into England in the yeare five hundred ninety eight he about the yeare six hundred P. 153. assembled the Bishops and Doctors of Britaine so that still here were Ministers but where their abode was the story sets not downe but supposed to be towards Wales and charged them to preach the Gospel to the English-men and also that they should among themselves reform certain rites in their Church so that still here were Ministers and Churches specially for keeping of Easter-tide baptizing after the manner of Rome c. to which the Scots and Britaines would not agree this shews they did not depend upon Rome Afterward there was another Synod gathered where seven Bishops of Britaine were present and though we finde a great battell fought presently after where the Britains were overcome yet the Story doth not mention that the Ministers were all slaine there Now the thing I aime at is this that since there were so many Ministers and Bishops in England who had their ordination by succesfion from those Apostolical men and not from Rome and wee finde so many when Austine came why may we not suppose that these might againe preach the Gospel to the English-men though at first they were opposite when they had smarted for their folly and why may we not suppose they might returne into England againe especially into those parts neare Wales also those who were driven out as the Story saith they were suppose into some other parts might not they returne into England also must we take the words of the Story All the Clergy and Christian Ministers were driven out strictly so as none at all were left though latent c those who are good Historians may helpe here and it would be some answer to that objection of our ordination coming from Rome though unto me the objection is very feeble if this answer cannot be made out As for the Churches of England being rightly at first gathered Way of Ch. in N. E. Ch. 7. p. 111. as above mentioned Mr. Cotton yeelds it so as he saith That all the work now is not to make them Churches which were none before but to reduce and restore them to their primitive Institution c. To that part of the Objection They were ordained by Bishops I pray what doe you thinke of Master Bradford and the rest of those holy Ministers and Martyrs that were ordained by the Bishops in those dayes Cranmer Ridley Hooper c was he an Anti-christian Minister and all those Ministers who were then ordained though now they were scarce got out of the Popish Ceremonies c. the holy Martyrs then did never offer to separate from Mr. Bradford and the rest nor call them Antichristian Ministers I pray how many such Bradfords have you among you Not all the Separatists in England can afford such a one Christ cals him his faithfull Minister but you say Mr. Bradford is none cursed be that doctrine Now if those Ministers were true Ministers though they had an Episcopall Ordination then so are ours notwithstanding their Ordination by Bishops It is vaine to say those Bishops were godly men so were ot ours for it is a bold assertion to say that none of the Bishops since have been godly men no doubt there are divers in Heaven And besides it is absurd to thinke that the truth and efficacy of an Ordinance depends upon the truth of Grace in him who doth administer it as for Ceremonies if you search they were not cleare then no more then our Bishops were It is a silly shift to say They walked according to their light I hope there was the same rule to judge of the truth of Ministers then that is now it was not their light which made them true Ministers but the rule But the truth of their Ministry was never
questioned till our Separatists rose up who are not comparable to them in parts or holinesse 2 I pray what doe you make of those Ministers who were ordained in the Primitive Churches Cyp. Epis 33 they were ordained in Cyprians time by Bishops and Presbyters and by Hieroms time the Bishops had ingrossed that power into their owne hands as appeares by that speech of his Excepting Ordination Epist ad Evagr. what doth a Bishop that a Presbyter doth not so that by this time it should seeme that the Presbyters were turned out and the Bishops only Ordained It is possible this might be but in some Churches for the fourth councell of Carthage ordered That no Bishop should Ordaine without the councell of his Clergy Can. 22. Can. 3. Now what were these no Ministers Anti-christ was not yet got into his Seat for the yeares of his reigne had been expired before this time It is strange that those should be no true Ministers who lived so neare the Apostles times and under persecution also as in Cyprians time neither was Cyprian surely the first Bishop that did Ordaine for there were Bishops before him yea besides this Ordination by Bishops we finde the Papists contending strongly for strange Rites which they use in Ordination and they say they were also used in those Primitive times for the anointing of the hands of the Presbyter that is ordained this they would prove from Cyprian or at least the Author of The Card. worke of Ch. who shou ld seeme to be as old as Cyprian also from Eusebius Hist Eccles l. 10. c. 4. which place would seeme to favour it and others there are whom they quote See Greg. De Val. to 4. d. 9. q. 5. Also for the shaving of the heads of their Ministers this we finde indeed in August time Ep. 26. Ep. 147. And this Calvin himselfe doth not deny to have been used then and gives the reason why it was used which Greg. de Val. scornes and gives other reasons To. 4. D. 9. q. 5. p. 3. If the Decret Epistles of Anicetus be of any Authority we shal finde it in his days long before Augustin and I wonder that Greg. Val. doth not quote him I am apt to think being they were so prone to Ceremonies in other Ordinances that something was added to this also Iust l. 4. c. 19 Sect 27. and I marvel that in the fourth Councell of Carthage where they set down their rites in Ordinations of other officers and some very ridiculous that the ordination of Presbyters should be the most pure but still with Bishops as well as Presbyters which is the thing now in hand 3 A Bishop if you consider him meerly as a Bishop was but a Minister and set apart to doe the worke of a Minister the same which all other Ministers may doe Bishops did Pray Preach Baptize administer the Lords Supper Ordaine Suspend Excommunicate and these things other Ministers doe and may doe that he did lift up himselfe above other Ministers that was his errour that he would take upon him the sole power of Ordination and Excommunication this was his errour but as the addition of an human invention did not null the Ordinances as suppose only growne persons had been baptized and that by dipping and after dipping they had been signed with the signe of the Crosse would this have nulled the Ordinance in the Anabaptists esteeme no more this usurpation of the power of administring these Ordinances did null a Bishop so as he was no Minister the Ordinances were and are Christs institutions Indeed you may call him an Over-growne Presbyter but a Presbyter 3 Ep. Ioh ver 10. Diotrophes loving of pre-eminence did justly deserve reproofe and John did no doubt deale with him but yet for present did not deny him to be a Minister though a corrupt one for the sole power of Ordination they tell us It is the order of the Church of England as of the Councell of Carthage that when a Presbyter is Ordained all the Presbyters that are present shall lay hands As for the sole power of Excommunication though it was an errour grosse enough yet by the 17. Canon Concil Sardic Ofius who was the cause of that Ganon being made was also at the Councel of Nice it should seeme the Bishops by that time had got that power to excommunicate alone which Canon provides a remedy for a person wrongsully excommunicated by his Bishop to got releefe by Appeales now if that corruption had got in so early long before Anti-christ had got to his Seat no wonder though it was found among our Bishops yet I hope they were true Ministers whom they Ordained As a Bishop was a Lord Bishop his Lordship was but a meere civill addition annexed to the Bishoprick by Regallfavour his Lordship was no ingredient into Ordination 4 The Lawes of this Realme doe account nothing Divine in a Bishop but his being a Presbyter Lond. vind 125. Dr. Seam answ to Diat p. 85. and therefore the Parliament in their Ordinance for Ordination tels us that they did ordaine as Presbyters not as Bishops much lesse as Lord Bishops yea I have heard a reverend Minister now Pastor of a Congregationall Church in Essex say that when the Bishop ordained him he told him I doe ordaine you as I am a Presbyter 5 The Ministers of England are ready to acknowledge those defects and corruptions which did cleave to their entring into the Ministry by the Bishops heare their owne words London Vindica p. 124. We doe not deny but that the way of Ministers entring into the Ministry by the Bishops had many defects in it for which they ought to be humbled but we adde that notwithstanding all the accidentall corruptions yet it is not substantially and essentially corrupted They acknowledge then the errour and desire to be humbled for it what more would you have God will accept of this I doubt not and why not you How to mend Dr. Seamans Divinity I know not where you have also the errour acknowledged implicitely for it is in answer to this Objection then giving his judgement in the case When sinne cleaves to the manner of Calling Answer to Diat p. 85. through the generall errour or corruption of all sorts of people who are concerned in it c. it is nototherwise to be invalidated here below then by doctrinall Censure and Repentance and not by iteration Repentance through Christs Bloud doth take away corruption out of Gods fight and will it not when they are so ingenuous out of your sight 6 There is a maxime taken up among the Independents Many may truly beare the name yea they owne it and practise accordingly yea and others and it goeth for as good Divinity as any the Gospel hath viz. That errours in Non-fundamentals must be borne withall in Churches we must labour indeed to convince people of such but if they will not be so convinced we must not
convinced of the thing the man after long labouring with him but to no purpose for he was tenacious in his owne opinion and as Hieron said of Jovinianus Non est contentus nostro i. e. humano more loqui altius quiddam aggreditur High flowne in his notions The Elders seeing that obstinacy was joyned to his errour they concluded that either they must cast that Ordinance out of the Church or else cast him out of the Church and so the Church of Rowley did cast him out I know they have been censured for this Act by some here but at the Day of Judgement they will give as comfortable an account for maintaining of the Ordinances of Christ as they shall doe who through their maxime of errours in Non-fundamentalls make way to loose all the Ordinances and then where is the Church From this example of Paul and Silas we may argue if two may sing Hymnes or Psalmes together then foure may so forty the number hinders not for the voyces here of many are no hinderance to the Ordinance but rather they help to stirre up the affections one of another as in those who are filled with wine two singing together or foure doe not hinder their conceited mirth So Christ and his eleven Apostles sang together Whether will these men allow one Christian to sing a Psalme alone by himselfe methinkes the texts and examples mentioned together with Jam. 5.13 Is any man merry 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let him sing Psalmes are so plaine as no rationall man can deny it But if one may then the Church may There is no act of Worship which any member of the Church is bound to performe but the Church is bound to performe but on the contrary it is not true that what worship the Church doth performe a member of Church can or may for instance for the first part Meditation needs no Organ of the body and therefore I leave that But doth a Member of the Church Pray so doth the whole Church doth he read the Scriptures so they are read in the Church doth he fast and pray so doth the Church doth he sing a Psalme so doth the Church but it is not true on the contrary as appeares in the Sacraments Preaching Discipline c. Neither is that place Revel 15.2 3. of small force to prove singing to be an Ordinance Exposit Hos 2.15 p. 525. Those who overcame the Beast sung the Song of Moses This saith Mr. Burroughs I note because hereby we may see that singing is an Ordinance in the Church of God not only in the time of the Law but in the time of the Gospel c. he was speaking of the text before 4 The fourth ground that moves me is this I know not how it will take with others but with me it is something Psal 92. The title saith it is a Psalme or Song for the day of Sabbath it is cleare that one way of sanctification of the Sabbath was by singing of Psalmes two of the words that Paul uses in Ephes 5.19 are in this Title 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psalme Spirituall Songs will any say this Psalme was only for those times but now is abolished with the Jewish Sabbath what is that admirable promise in the thirteenth and fourteenth verses vanished and of no use to us Should not Christians apply it and plead it now when as they are planted in Gods house and attending on him on our Christian Sabbath have not we as much need of the Promise as they this with me hath much prevailed if we owne a Christian Sabbath singing of Psalmes may well be owned also for an Ordinance of God now as well as then 5 The fifth is the presence of the Spirit of God with his people in the use of this Ordinance for the proofe of what I say let thousands of Gods people speake if they have not found God in the Ordinance I will not goe so farre as Augustin but our Fathers Confes l. 9 c. 6. l. 10. c. 33. who used it in their families more then some of us doe I am sure they found God and so have many now in these dayes those who have not found God in it they may cavill indeed but let them be rather humbled that God hath not given them what others have tasted those who doe frequently finde God in this Ordinance they will not so slightly and scornfully speake of it as that Sectary did to me but if God had usually manifested his presence with his Churches under the Old and New Testament in the using of this Ordinance this with the former Scriptures alledged prevaile with me to beleeve it is a Gospel ordinance still 6 The last ground that moves me is the practise of the Primitive Churches Antiquity after Scripture is as a Cypher after a Figure and doth increase the number that singing was frequent among those Christians I finde it recorded 1 Eusebius reporteth out of Philo the Lives manners c. of the religious men in Aegypt Marke being sent into Aegypt Eccles hist lib. 2. c. 17 as saith the story to preach Christ he there converted many whose conversation as I said Philo Judaeus a very learned man at that time sets forth in commendation of the Christians Hierom also relates this out of Philo Orationi vacatur Psalmis Catal. script Ecclesiast among other things this he reporteth They contemplate not only Divine things but they make grave Canticles and Hymnes unto God in a more sacred rime of every kind of meeter and verse This Philo a Hebrew flourished about the yeare forty being sent of an Embassage to Caius Caligula about that time so then this was their practise in the Apostles times Philo must needs be borne and well growne in Christs time 2 For Tertullian Mine in Paris print anno 1580. there are two Testimonies brought out of him for singing of Psalmes the one is out of Apol. c. 2. the Letter which Plinius Secundus wrote to Trajan in behalfe of the Church where he mentions the practise the other is out of Cap. 39. Apol. shewing the Discipline of the Christians and there it is mentioned but I finde two other places in him besides these as cleare as those one is l. 2. ad uxorem having spoken strongly against Christians marrying with Infidels he shewes the contrary how good it is for Christians to marry with Christians and among other things this he mentions Sonant inter Duos Psalmi Hymni mutuò provocant quis melius Deo sua canet but most cleare is that place Cap. 3. De Animâ as for his opinion De effigie animae I leave that but there he makes mention of a Sister of their Church who had the gifts of Revelations which it seemes shee had in the Church on the Lords Day As the Scriptures are read or Psalmes are sung he reckons up other Ordinances Prayer c. then matter for visions were administred c. Now this
Covenant Though I could heartily wish all our Ministers would follow the practise of the Holland Churches who cause all Apollon who come to the Sacrament to promise to subject to Discipline yet for the present I say this there is an implicite Covenant in all these Churches and if you be afraid to speake to these persons first whom you would have suspended then goe to the Minister and carry sufficient Witnesses as you must doe in any Church and I am confident without satisfaction given no more can be required in any Church thousands of the Presbyteriall Ministers will keepe away scandalous persons at least you are cleare as I said before yet to see these men separate for that in which themselves are most to blame Obj. But they baptize all Children making no difference though never so scandalous A. Though this is very seldome urged yet because I would draw out all that can be said I adde this For my owne practise I confesse in this I differ from other men farre better then my selfe but yet were I a Member of some other Presbyteriall Congregation I should not dare to separate upon this ground 1 It is granted by our Congregationall men Mr. Hook Survey p. 3 p. 11. that though persons be very wicked yet so long as they live in visible Churches and are not proceeded against they may justly challenge the priviledges of Church-Members but I dare not deny them to be true visible Churches in which there are many such for there are many both reall and visible Saints in such Churches where these wicked men are Obj. But then this makes against your selfe in denying some children Baptisme A. Learned Mr. Cawdrey came to my hand after I had printed my little Treatise had I seene him before I should have humbly presented some answer to some things which I see theâ—e so farre as concerned my question the question about Confederacy doth not concern me also I would have propounded some Reasons why his third way i. e. Adoption I should not so easily admit under the New Testament till those Reasons were removed I perceive he admires at them who deny the Children of Excommunicated Parents Baptisme I have no place now to answer but only this I say it is not good to put too much upon Baptisme nor too little upon that dreadfull ordinance of Excommunication What he saith p. 202. about the impotence to reject prophane persons through the iniquity of the times which implyes what he would doe if he had power confirmes my practise I answer as I have declared in that little Tract upon this question which the uncivill carriage of some in the Congregation when I had dealt lovingly with them in private before forced me to print I deny not them Baptisme absolutely but as I suspend them from one of the Seales so I doe from this also till they will labour to get out of their grosse ignorance and scandalous conversations and will subject themselves to Church-Discipline so that I doe as say the London Ministers separate in the Church but not from the Church as the state of our lapsed Churches will give us leave I desire to proceed against such yet but gently as for Excommunication that is a great worke having the advantage in the Church that many good Ministers better then my selfe have not viz. That the strongest Party in the Towne is religious but had many Presbyteriall men the same advantage I beleeve you should see they would be more strict then now they are Congregations must be mended by degrees to purge per vices in foule bodies is better then at first to give Hellebore Scammony and such strong workers it will cost abundance of prayer wisdome labour meeknesse to bring these Congregations fallen into this ignorance and prophanenesse for want of Catechizing and Discipline let the Bishops looke to their account Besides divers Presbyteriall Ministers doe examine their people before they will Baptize yea and I have heard one who is esteemed a rigid Presbyterian say That if the Presbyteriall Government were setled they would Baptize none but they would have the parents 1. Examined in point of knowledge 2. If they were scandalous that they should confesse their sinne 3. Promise for the time to come to reforme 4. That if persons would refuse to submit to Church-Discipline they would deny them the Lords Supper Since then it is in the hearts of many to reforme and it is the thing they would gladly have power to doe I thinke it is very unwarrantable upon this ground to separate from them besides there are many reasons they give for Baptizing of all that doe but professe Christ which though they are not satisfactory unto me so as to give the Seale of the Govenant to one who saith He beleeves in Christ but yet is grosly ignorant scandalous c. yet their reasons prevaile with me so as to be very charitable to those who doe Baptize upon those grounds if there be any sinne in it let the Minister looke to that that is not your fault Certainly people thinke it is a very easie thing to reforme Churches it may be done with a wet finger but if they were in the place of Ministers and had what knowledge is fit for the place they would finde it a hard Worke especially some Churches So then as yet we finde no grounds warrantable for this Separation I come to the last The place of meeting it is Idolatrous and I know not what I thought here to have given in some answers to this absurd cavill but the practise of this generation hath given in a full answer for it was observed in a neighbour Towne the Minister not preaching upon a day of Thanksgiving a Trooper got into the Pulpit and did c. This was such a pretty thing that divers of the Separatists in the Towne who had not beene in the Steeple-house for some yeares before ranne in haste and became Auditors of the Trooper Another of them who called himselfe the King of England came to me and offered to supply my place the man was mad as errour had made him mad but for all civill actions sober enough now from these practises I gather that either it is no sinne to meet in a Steeple-house as they call it or else they have no good consciences these practises are frequent if Troopers get into Pulpits For the lawfulnesse of the assembling in these places Mr. Hos 2. ch 15. Lect. Burroughs hath pleaded More might be added but I spare the Reader As yet then we have found no sufficient ground for separation I shall desire yet to come nearer and request of these persons what it is they would have which way may wee bee brought to an union if what they propound bee rationall and will be borne out by Scripture wee shall defire to come up to them for I am sure in that posture wee now stand nothing can goe forward I have not their proposals before
that though there be Officers in a Church yet the people may ordaine which I am sure those Divines who are for the peoples power in ordination will never admit being crosse to their owne Principles and Scripture 4 We finde in the eleventh verse that after that was done Aaron did wave these Levites before the Lord so that they were not compleat till Aaron had done his Act whence I remember learned Master Cotton in his discourse with me said the peoples 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there did but answer to the peoples 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the New Testament and Aarons waving of them did answer to our 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this clause only I remember but he had a larger answer which I tooke from him in discourse by which I remember he did enervate this Objection but I lost his notes with all my other helps in my shipwrack These men call for precept and example give you us one for this in the New Testament for you put us to that also we must give you them out of the New Testament yea Iwould goe further and desire them to give me one examplein the first six hundred yeares after Christ that ever the people did ordaine their Minister now this is strange to me that we can finde no foot-step of any such thing in the Scripture nor in the Ages next and yet that we should make it so frequent that they must ordaine most frequently for if every particular Church be Independent as now such a Church where I am in a small Village where the maintenance will not keep one Minister and therefore to be sure we cannot have more Ministers then if the Minister remove or dye if there come a new Minister the people must ever ordaine thus it must be in most places in England few will be excepted Iustin Mart. Apol 2 and if every new election must have a new ordination then it must alwayes be in the peoples power In the Primitive times there were Churches in Cities and Villages but that the Christians in Villages did ordaine their Officers I would gladly see that proved Ordination in those times was carried by a continued succession the Apostles ordained some Ministers those ordained others so downwards but never by the people Learned Dr. â—ell ener to 2. l. 3. c. 2. s 6 Ames seemes to answer this for whereas Bellarmine had said In novo Testamento ubicunque mentio fit manunm impositionis semper ea Apostolis caeterisque Episcapis nunquà m vero plebi tribuitur The Doctor answers to this In Historiâ novi Testamenti exempla babemus constitutionis Ministerii ejusdem etiam conservationis sed non restaurationis ejus aut reformationis post generalem Apostasiam omnia igitur quae pertinent ad plebem fidelem in tali casu non representantur ibi certis exemplis However these words seeme to carry it as if the Doctor did hold that the people had this power in a generall Apostasie yet I question whether the Doctor would looke upon the Churches of England now under such a notion neither would he deny the ordination of our Ministers to be valid for substance but yet here one might cast in something in times of Reformation it may be he saith 1 To Reforme the Minister is to Forme it now as it was first formed But the Ministry was not at first formed by the people ergo the Ministry cannot be now reformed by the people I thinke the Major will not be denyed for the Minor let any prove that According to this some will say We must have Apostles they formed the Ministers first we speake of ordination I say Non sequitur unlesse you can prove the Apostles ordained only quâ Apostles if so I know not how those Ministers whom the Apostles did ordaine could ordaine others but to be sure they did 2 I defire a text of Scripture that holds out this that the people may ordaine in a generall Apostasie 3 I doubt we shall rarely finde such times when there is a Society of godly Christians to ordaine but there is some Ministers also ordinarily there are Ministers who teach this people 4 It will be a question Whether the Apostasie hath been such as to require this for if Baptisme was not repeated but was thought valid though administred by a Romish Minister because he was set apart to the worke and kept the essence of the ordinance why might not the ordination administred by those Ministers hold as well 2 A second ground that makes me doubt is this it seemes strange to me that Christ should appoint extraordinary officers and make that a part of their work which the people themselves may doe Paul leaves Titus to ordaine but what needs that the people might well say what need Paul leave Titus to do that which we can doe our selves Frustra fit per plura c. the Apostles never needed but to preach and convert the people to the faith when they had done so they should have said we have now done our worke brought you to be beleevers you may now elect an Officer and ordaine him your selves the power is yours onely here would have been some trouble about baptizing since then I finde that this was part of thier Office then I cannot beleeve this is the peoples worke Paul might easily have left us a president in some Society of Christians that would have quieted all our disputes More might be said and is said by others but I see our New England Divines do almost yeeld it by giving power to some Ministers to ordaine in other Congregations Since nothing can be drawn from Scripture by precept or example to prove this hence some would draw it out by Argument Those who can do the greater may doe the lesse The people can doe the greater viz. elect Ergo The minor is as freely denyed as it is affirmed election is not the greater Scripture-light being judge That was the designe I doubt of making Ordination but an Adjunct for so indeed it would easily bee granted if election gives the essence and this only be an adjunct the people may well ordaine Yea and in a Church where there are Officers to Ordaine I know not why they who give the essence may not give the adjunct why should an adjunct be proper to the Officers only in that Church when the essence doth not belong to them Mr. N. W. Omnis quaestio non per aliud quod quaeritur babebit resolutionem nec ambiguitas per ambiguitatem sed ex elaris manifestis c. Irenae l. 2. c. 10. further then as members they joyne with the people for so it seemes the Officers elect as members and if you doe elect only as members why should you not also ordaine as members for election is the greater this the lesse The other Argument is the people are the first subject of the power of the keyes Ergo But this is not easily yeelded it was a
observe it well there is that which answers the Covenants you finde made in Scripture To say by that we are made a Nationall Church this were very silly yet I thinke there may be so much said for a Nationall Church that will not readily be answered But suppose the Churches in New England which God forbid should decline c. If the Generall Court should make such a Covenant to passe through all the Churches in the Colony would it make a Nationall Church they would conceive their Churches still to be Congregationall 3 I make no doubt but you should have found if you had but a little patience that when the Ministers had come to set up Discipline they would have brought their people under some stricter tye to subject to Church Discipline I have heard some speake of it they would have found it too laxe that implicite consent to make people put in execution that Matth. Read his first chapter in some Churches he saith there was Solennis protestatio subjection is sub discipliná Ecclesiasticâ p. 13. 18.15 16 c. as some have found before them and it was not without some cause that Apollonius sets downe that as one thing that is required of a Church-Member and whom they will admit to the Lords Supper That he shall promise to subject himselfe to Discipline he tells us thus it was concluded upon in severall Synods he mentions fix Synods I have found the experience of this so already that I should thinke my selfe in a poore case to exercise Discipline without it the people feele some stricter tye upon their spirits and I thanke God I have knowne good effects by it 4 If you will needs goe closer doe you may enter into a close Covenant as did those worthy Christians in Wetherfield in that old Prophets dayes who sets downe their Covenant in his seven Treatises but they did not separate as you doe Excell those Christians if you can The third Proposall The third Proposall We would have no Church-Members but visible Saints A. This were a thing to be wished indeed and that I beleeve which the Ministers would be glad if they could attaine it I gave you instances before out of their Bookes and it is that which they would put forth their power to effect so farre as the state of the Kingdome is capable of if once they were invested with power to exercise Discipline and indeed as the condition of England stands there is need of a Civill Power to back them the case is not now as in the Primitive times 2 You must put a difference between Churches new erecting and these in England which have been Churches so long when I raise a house new from the ground I may then doe as I please but if I be mending of an old house I must doe as well as I can repaire by degrees 3 What would you have done with all the rest Excommunicate them that 's a peece of work indeed and besides there is a great deale of worke to doe before we come to that it may be many will not be found contumacious nay you see they doe separate them from the Lords Supper and divers begin to looke something more narrowly to baptisme 4 How many corrupt Members doe you finde in the Church of Corinth and Galatia for the latter what a change was there made in their affections towards Paul Gillesp Aar rod. 287. who close did they cleave to those Judaizing Zelots who turned them away almost to another Gospel insomuch that though Paul wished those Seducers were cut off Gal. 5.12 i. e. by Excommunication yet he did not peremptorily command it renitente Ecclesiâ The Church of Corinth had drunke in vile errours the women it should seeme disorderly would speake in the Church and for Members 2 Cor. 12.20 21. you may conceive by the sins there mentioned what they were many of them Ch. 13.2 Aar rod 289. Paul indeed saith he wil not spare them This place Master Gillespie thinkes gives light to Ch. 10. 6. When your obedience is fulfilled our Ministers debarresuch from the Supper 5 If you did not thus separate from them they might doe more towards the reforming of their Congregations but you weaken their hands as I shall touch hereafter 6 But what doe you meane by visible Saints what is required or how would you judge of one what would you have them reall Saints I suppose you doe not thinke so crosse to the texts the Floore the Drag-net c. what would you have such as by the exactest scrutiny that can be made we may judge to be Saints really I defire your Texts for this Did the Apostles doe thus when they baptised any surely they must either judge by an Apostolicall Spirit but we see they were mistaken if they did so or else they must stay a good while and try men winter them The Churches after took more time but they did not come to that exact scrutiny c. Bell. ener to 2. l. 2. c. 1. s 5. and summer them as we say before they did judge of their Saint-ship but this they did not doe they baptised them quickly such Members as the Apostles admitted we may or else give us texts to the contrary I have touched this in another Tract desiring that those who are for such strictnesse in Members would give us their grounds remember Doctor Ames Falsum est internas virtutes a nobis requiri ut aliquis sit in Ecclesiâ quoad visibilem ejus statum The fourth Proposall We would have power in admission of Members and in Excommunication Ans For admission of Members 1 When you bring proofe out of the Word what power Church-Members have exercised in admission of Members I hope you shall finde none shall debarre you from having that power 2 When there are Members to be admitted who never were Church-Members you shall finde it granted but that is not our case here if you would have power in admission to Sacraments you have that liberty given you to bring in Testimonie for or against and if you bring in sufficient proofes against persons you shall finde they shall not be admitted thus must you doe in any Church what-ever If any good Christian shall come and give in testimony for another the Minister will gladly receive it For Excommunication the Presbyteriall Ministers will not Excommunicate without the peoples consent you shall have liberty first asking leave of the Minister who is the Ruler and Mouth of the Congregation to propound any question soberly and gravely which you would have cleared before you manifest your consent if there be any thing darke to you that so you may clearly obey them for I hope you doe not looke to be equall with Officers in this Act and I hope this is more then ever you saw practised in old times Now that the Ministers will not Act against the people I suppose they meane the Body of the People for if they
of Army c. must be referred to the many precious Saints of God Ministers and others who are men resolute for Christs Ordinances and Officers men who stand to their old Principles abhorring these Errors and Schismes who very much fearing least if the Scottish party prevailed in this way there would be little liberty for the sound and moderate Presbyteriall men as well as Congregationall and therefore they lay in hard with God by fasting and Prayer for the disappointing of the Scottish designes and surely Christ hath more respect to his owne people who are tender of his Ordinances Truths and Officers and long to see him set up in all his Ordinances before they dye rather then to such as make light of all the former Few of these Separatists trouble fasting and prayer very much they are so full of joy they cast off those flesh-afflicting Ordinances I would have none to mistake me as if I were an enemy to the Church of Scotland No verily I doe much honour divers of the Ministers and the Church of God is much bound to blesse God for their labours both of former times Rollocke c. and also in these latter daies I conceive that man is either proud or ignorant or erroneous who shall read Mr. Rutherford against the Jesuits and Arminians and doth not blesse God for him Yea the peeces that he and Mr. Gillespie have writ concerning the controversies of these times for their learning and sweetnesse of spirit in them who can but blesse God for them yea though in some places crosse to our Congregationall men though they are condemned and sleighted here yet they are reverenced and highly esteemed amongst the worthies in New England Yea I adde further I wish from my heart that the Discipline of the Church of Scotland as I finde it set downe in Mr. Rutherford and others were set up in England though in some points a little crosse to Congregationall principles and yet lay all together what I finde in Mr. Gillespie I am so satisfied that I know men of moderate spirits in the Congregationall way may be borne with and live sweetly with them What the practices of the people in Scotland are I know not I am sure they have not worse hearts then mine they are not their Practices but their soundnesse in Opinion and Discipline I desire they must be honoured for their purity in Worship against humane mixtures and for their soundnesse in the faith 2 In a politicall respect they cannot be judged true friends to the State This appeares First From what we have observed already among them in that time when the Levelling party stirred how many of these did strike in with that party is well known here in the Country and other great Townes by drawing up Petitions onely they were interrupted in their worke some again speaking most basely of the Parliament they could match the old Royalists in their language such I say as are now and then were tolerated and I doubt if that party moves againe we shall see what faithfull Subjects these are though now they are tolerated as friends Secondly The tolerating of these keep other men of great holinesse learning and abilities from cordiall closing with the State the Covenant to be sure is expresly against Schisme and Heresie I have heard leading men say if there were a good Aristocracy set up in the Nation so that we might have true Patriots for the Nation and if they would take some order with these Schismes and Errors so that the Ordinances and Government of Christ might be set up indeed they could submit very wel if God shews it to be his mind to lay by Monarchy Now it would be more honour and safety for a State to have such men close with them rather then such as these are I have heard this from such as are leading men before the Worcester fight which I adde because it may be thought now they would do it now they see no other hopes I shall wind up this Discourse against our Separatists many of which I am sure have before owned the Ministers yea and received Baptisme and the Lords Supper at their hands by propounding a few Questions unto them 1. Quest Questions propounded to the Separatists Have you any thing against your Ministers in respect of their conversations if they be scandalous in their lives you have a way to help your selves do they not walke in some measure as becometh Christians 2 Is not their Ministry wholesome doe they not preach soundly converting and edifying truths though all have not the same gifts 3 If you can charge them with either of these have you with that respect which becomes their places dealt with them and told them of such faults have you told them once and againe yet they have refused to heare you while you have patiently waited you must do so towards a private brother before you part much more with a Minister 4 Have you called in other Ministers to hear the Case and to judge in it or are you only your own judges 5 Doe they mixe any thing in the Worship of God so as you cannot joyn with them in the worship without sinne and have you dealt with them as before 6 If there be some thing which you would have received or done have you given them convincing Arguments to prove it ought to be 7 Was the thing you desired Tanti of so great consideration that the word wil clearly bear you out for separating because you could not enjoy what you would have 8 Might not meeknesse of spirit waiting a while have won your Ministers to a yeelding in some degree to what you desired 9. Was there no Church in the Towne before you separated and entred into a Covenant together this I adde because some of these call themselves The Church and are there no visible Saints in the Towne but your selves 10. When you did separate whose counsell had you what Churches joyned with you in the act and also were present when you did joyne together to heare your Confession of Faith whether you were sound in the Faith or no I heartily wish they would give in Answers to these Questions according to the word clearly I thinke they will see themselves snared Let us in few words heare what others say concerning separation Mr. Hooker Survey Chu dis in Pref. that eminent man of God saith The faithfull Congregations in England are true Churches and therefore it is sinfull to separate from them as no Churches Mr. Norton Resp ad Apollon p. 156. c. another Congregational man acute and holy hath written upon this subject excellently If the Separatists doe understand the Latine tongue they shall finde their practises overthrowne and condemned Rejicimus Separatistas non distinguentes inter ecclesiam impuritates ecclesiae Grave crimen schismatis I wish we had a few of these Mr. Nortons in England though he be a man who stands much for the peoples
liberty yet he so ordereth their liberty that our Ministers would be glad if they had their Churches governed as is the Church whereof himselfe together with Mr. Na. Rogers are officers these are Congregationall men De schismate I will not rehearse what I finde in Camero because he wrote before these times and will be reckoned for a Presbyterian foure grounds he gives for separation none of which I am sure our Separatists can alleadge 1. Grievous and intolerable persecution 2. When the Church is Heretical 3. When Idolatry is set up 4. When the Church is the seat of Antichrist I shall conclude with a speech of his Vt nihil aequè arguit ingenium spiritus Christi ac studium conservandae societatis unionis in quo charitas elucet sic etiam nullum est evidentius argumentum pravitatis ingenii humani unde inter carnis opera contentienes nominantur quà m tumultuandi rixandi studium Object But you have spoken against godly men all this while Ans Not against their godlinesse one word their schisme errors only I have opposed But I know not what new Divinity we have got up in these dayes that if they be godly men that drinke in errours or practise inordinately Oh take heed how you speake they are godly men there may be an unwise speaking when men shall onely fling out against persons but confute nothing but certainly godly men deserve reproofe as well as others I hope the being of a godly man doth not make that to be no sinne in him which is sinne in another but here is the subtilty of Satan and it was all the game he had to play in those times I must now saith he get into an Angel of light and I must worke among these godly professors This wâ—â— Satans plot in Cyprians time as he mentions in his booke De unitä Eccles yet when he saw his heathenish worship would not prosper but was cast down then hee plagued the Church with heresie and schisme if I can get some of those away I shall get other hollow ones to cleave to them and make a party If I now make not a division among them but that they joyne all with one shoulder to set up Christs Kingdome and thrust down mine it will go hard with my kingdome now therefore finde fault with the Ordination of Ministers it was Popish so separate from them plead conscience that is a tender peece strive for exact purity though it be beyond the rule as to visible Church-fellowship and thus he hath found out his wayes to damp all the worke of Reformation I shall say no more but this though some of these Separatists are godly men yet if godly men stand thus as now we do I beleeve God will not spare us though we be godly men but he will ere long bring such plagues upon the professing party in England as shall make their hearts ake For my part I look on England thus there have been choice servants of God in England who laboured under the Hierarchicall oppression many strong cryes have they made for the removall of that burden and that they might enjoy him in his owne Ordinances without the mixtures of mens inventions God hath given us in the answer of those prayers as to the removing of what offended and now saith God looke you to it yee Professors I give the power which never your Fathers saw into the hands of the Puritanicall * The old scoffe party let me now see how you will improve it for the advancement of my Church and glory but verily if we improve it no better then now we do we must look that God will not intrust us with this power long he doth not use to stay long before he visits his Churches but quickly deprive us of this liberty and Lord if thou doest thou shalt be just Having done with the Separatists I shall now take a short view of the agreements and differences that are with and between the Classical and Congregational Divines and then shall make bold to present an humble request to the Congregational Divines 1. Do the Classical-brethren stand for all the Ordinances of Christ as Praying Preaching Sacraments Discipline c so doe the Congregational-brethren 2. Do the Classical-brethren stand for Christs officers Pastors sach ers Ruling-elders Deacons allowing such and onely such o doe the Congregational-brethren They agree in worship and in officers 3. Do the Classical-brethren hold to the old doctrines of Faith Repentanee holding up the preaching of the Law in its method to prepare before faith to guide after faith so do the Congregational-brethren such as we looke upon as sound and esteem worth the regarding 4. Do the Classical-brethren hold the government of the Church to be Presbyterial so do the Congregational-men such as are the most acute Besides what Mr. Norton none of the lowest ranke hath asserted in his book which I quoted before I have heard him say That if the Congregational-government did make the government of the Church democratical he would give up the cause For my part I am but among the weakest of Gods Ministers but yet I thinke it were no hard matter to prove the government of the Church to be Aristocratical I enter not now into the debating of the question but this hath much stucke with me First there is government in the Church I meane an externall politie besides an internall government of the Spirit what ever our phantastical Spiritualists have dreamed of the Scripture is too plain against these Secondly then there are governours and governed this must needs be yeelded else government cannot be for governours there are none that are sound in their wits can deny if they owne the Scriptures Thirdly the affaires then of the Church must be so carried that these Relates may be kept distinct for that government which destroys these by making the Correlate i. the body governed to be governour and so there are none governed cannot possibly be a government standing so much with the light of nature There is no government if all rule Obj. But how can the government of the Church be Aristocraticall when as you carry things by the suffrage of the people Answ I should desire also to propound these questions First would you not if now Churches were constituting give the people this liberty that if any could bring in good testimony against a man who was to bee received into the Church that they should do it and if the thing be proved will not you refuse to admit such a one Secondly if it now come to casting out of a member will not you give liberty to any of the brethren who shall first asking you leave to speak in a sober grave way propound some question to the clearing of the case in hand before the people joyn with you in cutting off a member I say would not you give this liberty Thirdly will you excommunicate renitente ecclesiâ
same minde I know not nay I have observed the spirits of some Congregational-Ministers carried with more eagernesse against the Classical-brethren then è converso and I am sure if there be any blame among the Ministers it is charged most upon the Congregational-men whether justly or no it concernes you to cleare your selves Besides at this time the Civill power most smiles upon you and now it is a good time to shew you seeke the peace and flourishing of all Churches by joyning with your fellow-brethren and not to be content though your Interest be safe unlesse the whole may have comfort as well as your selves for you cannot but judge that there are more true visible Churches then those which are called Independent Churches and that there be others that are true Ministers besides the Independent Ministers why then should not the comfort of these Churches and Ministers be sought which cannot be unlesse your selves be pleased to declare against these errours and schismes of the times and fall in with these Ministers to carry on the worke of Christ together Let mee I beseech you present to your view a few things to be considered First the Classical men have bid very faire for peace and agreement with you heare their words Lond. in Vind. p. 120. 121. We doe here manifest our willingnesse te accommodate with you according to the word in a way of union and such of us as are Ministers to preach up and to practise a mutuall forbearance and toleration in all things that may consist with the sundamentals of Religion what need then any other Toleration with the power of godlinesse and with that peace which Christ hath established in his Church but to make ruptures in the body of Christ and to divide Church from Church c. there is no warrant for this out of the word The page before this they offer as much as this and speake so Christianly and ingenuously that it must needs move any Christian heart that loves the peace and prosperity of the Churches to meet them halfe way and not suffer any differences more to appeare As for that exception they make the ruptures of Churches I thinke it to be a very just exception that golden rule hath place here ut tibi sic aliis would any of us be content to have other Ministers take from us the best of our people that have chosen us before and owned us for their officers say what you please you are men and I know it would be a strong temptation when as for want of these also their hands are weakned in the carrying on of Reformation in their Churches If you take away the best who are the joy of a Minister take away the worst also If you live neare a place where there is no Minister and take in such Christians to you as the place affords and returne them when the place is furnished or if there be a Minister and but few Christians so that he cannot give the Lords Supper with comfort if he and his people will joyne with you they may none oppose this but when a godly Minister hath visible Saints sufficient in his Parish to have these taken from him is such a thing which I would not have offered to me therefore I would not offer the same to another I know where the pinch lyes on the Ministers part Our maintenance ariseth from the members c. but for this the State hath provided an answer and certainly it is a great mercy reforme you in the place where you live take none but Scriputre-visible-Saints to the Sacraments catechize and doe what you can to reforme the rest the State hath provided for your maintenance none shall keepe it from you as well as the word gives it you Gal. 6. Let him that is taught in the word communicate to him that teacheth in all good things Christ sent Paul not to baptize but to preach the Gospel 1 Cor. 1.17 preaching is the spending worke and the chiefe of this all the Parish are partakers I am ready to dispense the Seales to all visible Saints therefore I know no scruple why I should not receive from all since all receive from me O but your members will not be content with this I know not but your members may finde God in a godly reformed Classicall Church we see the differences are very small but suppose the worst let then your members remove into the Parishes where you live and this is no offence to any if they say It will something hinder their estate Mr. Burroughs wil tel them then they love their bodies better then their soules Expos Hos c. 2. v. 1.2 p. 225. if they looke upon things very much concerning their soul and will not buy them with some abatement of their profit could this have beene once enjoyed New England sufferers had not been there now Though Parishes are not Churches yet Ministers care must be bounded some where I presume you are willing to close so that you may not sin I beseech you first what sinne is it to let a godly Classicall man enjoy his owne members Secondly What sinne is it to admit a visible Saint and member of a Classical Church to communion with you Thirdly what sinne is it to declare against the errours and schismes of the times you see it is the thoughts of the New England Divines that through our too much connivence at these this inundation of errours is like to destroy all If these three be but yeelded I beleeve you may live and enjoy your liberty of conscience and no man will trouble you 2. A second consideration is this you see those who call for agreement they are no babes they are men holy learned excellently gifted and the arguments they give for their Classical forme of government are not slight but such as deserve strong heads to answer it may be my shallownesse but truly I cannot yet see some things they plead for to be clearly answered as their arguments for the Catholick-Church-visible their arguments for their Presbyterial Church from the Church of Jerusalem Corinth c. yet I have read the answers with a kinde of prejudice against the Classical way being before engaged in the Congregational-way and usually then men are apt to make a little serve the turne But I cannot yet be satisfied and that such a Church as is in this small village where I live should have equall power with the Church of Corinth and be exempted from all other power though which God forbid we should walke scandalously is a peece of Divinity that I cannot yet beleeve There seemes to be something in that which learned Mr. Hudson hinteth from 1 Cor. 14.34 Let your women keepe silence in the Churches Here are Churches in Corinth he doth not say Let women but Let your women that indeed which is a rule for the Churches of Corinth is a rule for all Churches those Congregations are called Churches yet one combined Church
of Corinth There are other points besides which I mention not but certainly the controversie is not so clear as the controversie against Papists Socinians c. therefore I should thinke that we had need close the more with these men A third consideration is this unto me it is something I know not how it takes with others the strange things that God in his Providence hath suffered to fall out in Congregationall Churches I meane for Divisions especially and errours that charge cannot bee denied of many Congregationall Members what errours they have drunke in and for Divisions they are not secret things but such as the whole Nation knows insomuch that I have heard a serious Congregationall Minister and an able man say when he hath heard what crackes and rendings there have been in Congregationall Churches he thought seriously whether it were the way of God or no how many Congregationall Churches may be reckoned where these have been and if Ministers doe not let their Members take their owne course even what they will and drinke in what errours they will it is hard to keep a Church from rending Ius Divi. p. 114 that learned Book England gives strong proofe of this It is a very unhappy Story that Mr. Edwards relates of the Church at Arnheim if it be true I finde it quoted by the London Ministers where that Act was done in New England that Mr. Cawdrey mentions in his Epistle to the dissenting Brethren I cannot imagine but that is also strange if true I suppose he relates as it was related to him I know indeed where there is a sad example of this kinde there also This use I make of these things that we had need take another review of Congregationall principles in respect of that power which is given to the Fraternity and in the meane time to be very tender towards the Classicall Brethren and study agreement with them The fourth The Classicall men are opposed in reforming their Churches as well as the Congregationall men now for these to be opposed not only by the prophane part whom they keep off from the Lords Snpper but to be opposed also by the Congregationall men that they prove a griefe to them this is a hard chapter certainly we had need more close with them and help to comfort them rather then grieve them in their worke they are scorned by the profane party let not us scorne them 5 These Nurseries of errours I meane the Separatists who cast off Orthodox Officers are as bad enemies to the Congregationall Churches as they are to the Classicall nay worser your Members will quickly drinke in their poyson yea and goe away from you to them Pag. 119. as experience hath testified therefore it concernes you to joyne with the Classicall men against them but by one passage I meet with in the London Vindication it seems some Congregationall men doe not thinke so for they in their complaint to you thus speake Are there not some of you that chuse rather to joyne with Anabaptists and Episcopall men then with us and that will give letters dimissory to your Members to depart from you to the Churches of the Anabaptists and at the same time deny them to such as desire them for to joyne with Churches of our Communion we charge not these things upon you all but upon some whose names we forbeare to mention this is very strange but this confirmes what I said before that the cause of our dis-union is not altogether in the Classicall men 6 I pray consider what a fine Game the Devill hath played by this opposition between us hath he not turned our Reformation into a deformation Hath he not caused the building of the Temple to cease Doe not all things that concerne the Reformation of the Church stand at a stay What doe we now indeed those who are for Congregationall Government have the opportunity to gather Churches as they call it but what becomes of the whole It was told me when I was in Spaine which was the winter before Naseby Fight that divers that were in religious Orders that lived there were got into England Certainly Jesuits or Devils have been here to hold the Congregationall and Classicall Brethren at such a distance that while they have been contending about Government we are in danger of loosing Ordinances Truths Government and be swallowed up with a deluge of Errors Schismes and Heresies Divide impera that hath been Satans project 7 I beseech you consider whether we lye not open to Gods stroke is there not matter of provocation given him by reason of these Divisions that his worke stands at a stay Errours Schismes Heresies and decay of godlinesse that follows upon these that he should take away the Liberties he hath given us and make us feele a heavie yoke againe Surely these things will not be long borne Mr. Caryll hath a sad speech Expos on Job c. 5. ver 9. God hath begun to doe so many marvells amongst us that I verily beleeve the worke he is about will end in a marvell too and we in the close shall be made either a wonder of Mercy or a wonder of Judgement to all the Nations round about We are made indeed a wonder in regard of the strange Opinions Heresies Divisions they wonder at us in New England but till God sets up his Kingdome in our hearts Rom. 14.17 consisting in righteousnesse peace and joyes of the Holy Ghost and sets up his Kingdome in the Nation riding in triumph in his Ordinances converting of soules and battering down the prophanenesse of our hearts scattering our Errors and Schismes we shall not be a wonder of mercy to other Nations but if God shall be pleased to let our hearts feele his inward Kingdome and our eyes see his externall visible Kingdome after that manner exalted then Lord some of us care not how soone we fall asleep FINIS