THE TRYAL OF John Hambden Esq The 28 th day of November 1683. Ann. 35. Car. 2. Reg. John Hambden Esq being brought up by Writ of Habeas Corpus from the Tower of London and there being an Indictment preferred against him for Misdemeanor His Majesties Attorney General prayed that he might be Aâ—â—igned upon it which was done in this manner Cl. of Cr. JOhn Hambden You stand here Indicted by the Name of John Hambden late of the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Middlesex Gent. For that you being a Pernitious and Seditious Man and a Person of a Wicked mind and of an impious unquiet and turbulent Disposition and contriving practising and falsly unlawfully unjustly maliciously turbulently and seditiously intending the Peace of our Soveraign Lord King Charles that now is and the common Tranquility of this Kingdom of England to disquiet molest and disturb and as much as in you lay Sedition within this Kingdom of England to incite stir up and procure and the Government of our said Lord the King in this Kingdom of England into danger to bring And that you the said John Hambden your most Impious Wicked and Seditious Intentions aforesaid to fulfil and perfect and bring to effect the last day of June in the Five and Thirtieth year of the Reign of our said Soveraign Lord the King that now is and divers other days and times as well before as after with Force and Arms c. At the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Middlesex unlawfully unjustly maliciously and seditiously did assemble your self meet consult conspire and confederate with divers evil disposed Subjects of our said Lord the King to the Jurors unknown and with the said Persons did treat concerning your said most Wicked and Seditious Compassings Imaginations and Purposes aforesaid to be executed fulfill'd and brought to effect and further that you the said John Hambden your most Wicked Impious and Seditious Contrivances Practices and Intentions aforesaid to fulfil perfect and reduce to effect then and there viz. the last day of June in the 35th year aforesaid and divers other days and times as well before as after at the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid with Force and Arms c. falsly unlawfully unjustly maliciously and seditiously did consult consent censpire and confederate of an Insurrection within this Kingdom of England to be made and of procuring and providing Arms and Armed Men to be prepared in divers places within this Kingdom of England your same most Wicked Impious and Seditious Intentions and Compassings aforesaid to fulfil and perfect And that you the said John Hambden your most Wicked Impious and Seditious Intentions aforesaid to fulfil and perfect and bring to effect afterwards viz. the last day of June in the 35th year aforesaid at the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid with Force and Arms c. falsly unlawfully unjustly wickedly maliciously and seditiously did consult agree and consent that a certain Person to the Jurors aforesaid unknown should be sent into Scotland to invite and incite divers evil disposed Subjects of our said Lord the King of his Kingdom of Scotland to come into this Kingdom of England to advise and consult with you the said John Hambden and others the aforesaid evil disposed Subjects of our said Lord the King in this Kingdom of England concerning Aid and Assistance to be expected and supplyed out of the said Kingdom of Scotland your said most Wicked Impious and Seditious Intentions and Compassings aforesaid to fulfil effect and promote in manifest contempt of the Laws of this Kingdom of England to the evil and most pernicious Example of all others in the like case offending and against the Peace of our said Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity How sayst thou art thou Guilty of this High Misdemeanour whereof thou standest Indicted and hast been now Arraigned or not Guilty Mr. Hambden Not Guilty Upon which Plea issue was joyned between His Majesties Attorney General on behalf of the King and Defendant and Bail was then taken for the Defendants appearance the next Term. Hillary Term 35 and 36. Car. Secundi Reg. In the beginning of the Term Sir Thomas Jenner Knight His Majesties Serjeant at Law and Recorder of the City of London Moved for a Tryal at the Bar in the Case between the King and Mr. Hambden which was by the Court appointed to be on Wednesday the 6th of February in the same Term. Die Mercurii 6. Februarii 1683. Anno Regni Reg. Car. Secundi 36. Cl. of Cr. Call the Defendant John Hambden Mr. Williams He appears Cl. of Cr. Gardez votrez Challenges Call Sir Charles Gerard. Cryer You shall well and truly try the Issue between our Soveraign Lord the King and John Hambden Gent. and a true Verdict give according to your Evidence So help you â—â—d Jurat Sir Charles Gerard. Cl. of Cr. Roger Jennings Esq Jur. Henry Hodges Esq Jur. Joshua Galliard Esq Mr. Williams We challenge him for the Defendant L. Ch. Just What is your Cause of Challenge Mr. Williams If your Lordship please to let him go through the Pannel we will shew cause if there be not enough left without him L. Ch. Just No shew your Cause now it being against the King Mr. Williams He has an Employment under the King He has an Office in the Forest and that we say is our Cause of Challenge L. Ch. Just What then if he have Mr. Williams My Lord We suppose then he is not an indifferent Person to try this Cause L. Ch. Just Ay let me hear that now proved and defended by any Gentleman of the long Robe that that is a good cause of Challenge Shew me what Law there is for it Mr. Williams To be of the Kings Robe or Pay or Sallery is an exception in any Case wherein the King is concerned L. Ch. Just Shew me any Law for that if you can Mr. Williams I know you are a Lawyer Mr. Wallop It is the Opinion of my Lord Coke in his Institutes that it is a good Cause of Challenge L. Ch. Just But there is the Opinion of all the Judges in Henry the Fourths time against it Mr. Wallop It is my Lord fol. 156. L. Ch. Just But I can cite you three or four Books and you have them all together in Rolls Abridgment Title Challenge where he sets down four Books one after another That it is no cause of Challenge even to be the Kings Tenant and there is a great deal of reason for it For if that were a good Cause of Challenge mark the Consequence then all Persons that hold Lands in England hold them mediately or immediately of the King and so the King could have no Free-holders to be Jury-Men in his Cause Mr. Williams This is a more special Cause of Challenge than that L. Ch. Just What can be greater than that of being the Kings Tenant Mr. Att. Gen. Especially when all the Land
shew him the way And I sent for this Man and when he came to him he hired him to go with him and I was by L. C. J. When he first came to your house about the middle of February was twelve month Whither was he bound then Northward or Southward Mr. Sheriffe He was going to Scotland that is Northward L. C. J. And you say after he came back again and lay another Night at your house Mr. Sheriffe Yes ten or twelve days after he did L. C. J. And which way went he then Mr. Sheriffe Then he came Southwards towards London L. C. J. Did you take exact notice of the Man Mr. Sheriffe Yes I saw him before his Majesty and the Council L C. J. And upon your Oath that same man you saw there was the same man that lodged at your house in February was 12 month Mr. Sheriffe Yes it is Mr. Att. Gen. What name did he go by at your house Mr. Sheriffe He went under the name of Mr. Clerke but what his Sirname was I can't tell L. C. J. Had he a servant with him Mr. Sheriffe He had a man with him that stay'd at our house during the time of his going Northward Mr. Att. Gen. What did he call his name Mr. Sheriffe Wil. Langston Mr. Att. Gen. Did he desire you to furnish him with a guide Mr. Sheriffe He told me his Servant did not know the way and his horse was a little lamish and desired me to get a guide for him For after he had dined at our house it happened to be a rainy day and he could not go further that night and therefore desired me to get him a man that knew that Countrey and I sent for this same man and he hired him and he went along with him next morning my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. Whither was he to go Mr. Sheriffe Truly I did not know but he told me he did not know the way into Scotland and I directed him to a Gentlemans house at Jadbrough in the way Lord Ch. Just Is that the Road to Scotland Mr. Sheriffe Yes the high Road to one part of Scotland L. C. J. Did he tell you to what part or place of Scotland he was to go Mr. Sheriffe He named the West of Scotland I think he named Douglas but I do not know what place certainly he designed for Mr. At. Gen. Then where is Bell Bell Here. Mr. At. Gen. Had you a view of this man they call Aaron Smith Bell Yes I had Mr. At. Gen. Give an accompt whether you saw him in the Northand when and where Bell This man Mr. Sheriffe sent for me I live at New-Castle and there I keep Hackney Horses to serve any Gentlemen or be a Guide to them as there is occasion and Mr. Sheriffe sent for me and when I came he told me the Gentleman wanted a Guide into Scotland We immediately agreed it was upon Thursday night before that we call Easter Eve Lord Ch. Just When was it say you Bell It was the Thursday before Easters-Even so they call it with us that is Shrove-Tuesday L. C. J. Ay they call it so in those places because 't is the Even of the Fast of Ash-wednesday the beginning of Lent Well go on Bell We went away on Friday the next morning on our Journey towords Jadbrough and the 2d day which was Saturday in the afternoon my horse tired whereupon he left me with my horse and took the Mans man of the house where he left me to guide him for my horse would not ride up with him being tired and he resolving to go on and he bid me follow him on the Sunday morning to Jadbrough Town which I did and we stayed there all Sunday And on Monday morning I saw him take horse and another man that was his guide and away they went as I think he said towards Douglas he was going And he pay'd me and I returned again from him to New-Castle and left him L. C. J. Pray how far was this you say you went with him to Jadbrough how far distant is that from New-Castle Bell. To Jadbrough my Lord L. C. Just Yes Bell. 'T is Forty Miles my Lord. L. C. Just How near Scotland is it Bell. 'T is within some six Miles of the English Border L. C. Just Did you see him at any time after that Bell. I saw him at his coming back again being at Sheriffs house his Wife asked me if I would go up and see the Gentleman that I went with towards Scotland So I went up and he made me eat and drink at the Table with him Mr. Att. Gen. What Name did he go by Bell. He went by the name of Clerk Mr. Att. Gen. Was there any Servant with him Bell. There was a Man that came with him as a Servant there and was all the time at New-Castle that he was gone towards Scotland till he came back again L. C. Just Mr. Attorney Did this Man see Smith at the time the other saw him Bell. Yes I did L. C. Just And is that the Man that went by the name of Clerk at New-Castle and that you went with towards Scotland Bell. Yes It is Mr. Atterbury And when they charged him with it Aaron Smith did not deny it Mr. Att. Gen. Did you go any by-Road to get into Scotland Bell. No 't is the Road Gentlemen usually go to Jadbrough and so on because 't is something the nearer way to that part of Scotland as we judge it to be therefore Gentlemen use it Mr. Att. Gen. Is it an high-open-Road Bell. Yes 't is the high-open Way to that part of the Country Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord Howard Pray were the Names of any of the Scotch-men mentioned at your Meeting that were to be sent for L. Howard Yes There was my Lord Melvin Sir John Cockram and one Cambell Mr. Att. Gen. Now my Lord We will give you an account That as Smith went into Scotland so these persons soon after came into England Jury-Man My Lord We desire that my Lord Howard would name those Scotch-men that were to come L. Howard There was my Lord Melvin Sir John Cockram and one Cambel one that was of my Lord Argyles Name and Family and there was another Name but I can't remember what that Name was Mr. Att. Gen. We shall give you an Account my Lord That they came immediately after this to Town and at the breaking out of the Plot they Absconded L. C. Just Mr. Attorney Has my Lord Howard his Pardon Mr. Attorney Yes my Lord he has L. C. Just Then your Lordship may be covered L. Howard I can't tell but they may ask me some Questions Mr. Att. Gen. Then you may be uncovered when they ask them in the mean time your Lordship may be covered Swear Sir Andrew Foster which was done Pray Sir will you tell my Lord and the Jury what you know about the Cambell's and Sir John Cockram's being in Town Or any other Scotch-men that
you know of Sir Andrew Foster My Lord I did see those Gentlemen in the beginning of last Summer Sir John Cockram and Mr. Monrow and Cambell the Son I did see but the Father I did not but I do know he was in Town tho I saw him not Mr. Att. Gen. How do you know it Sir Andrew Foster I had Messages from them L. C. Just Sir Andrew You say you saw Sir John Cockram and Monrow Sir Andrew Foster Yes L. C. Just Did you see any body else Sir Andrew Foster I saw Sir George Campell the Son Mr. Att. Gen. What became of them upon the Discovery of the Plot Sir Andrew Foster Sir John Cockram did Abscond and Mr. Monrow was taken into Custody Mr. Att. Gen. What became of the others Sir Andrew Foster The Campells were both in Custody Mr. Att. Gen. Did you see any Commission they had Sir Andrew Foster I did see a Commission that Sir John Cockram had Mr. Att. Gen. What was it for Sir Andrew Foster To make a Purchase of some Plantations beyond Sea I think it was Carolina L. C. Just Ay where my Lord Shaftsbury had an Interest Sir Andrew Foster It was some of the West-Indies L. Howard I did omit that passage my Lord Mr. Att. Gen. Pray was it discoursed then what should be the Blind for these Gentlemen that were notorious Dissenters that they should come to Town from Scotland about L. Howard It was to carry on a Plantation in Carolina The Scotch Gentlemen were personally known to my Lord Russel only and my Lord Russel was to write the Letter to them and I suppose did Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Atterbury What do you know of these Scotch-men coming to Town and what became of them afterwards Mr. Atterbury My Lord about the beginning of July Fourth Fifth or Sixth or thereabouts I had some Information That there were some Scotch Gentlemen that had been shifting up and down and at that time were about Black-Fryers lodged there secretly I immediately went with the King's Proclamation and some Warrants that I had to apprehend some Traytors that were fled And when I came I found that Mr. Common Serjeant having Notice of them had beat up their Quarters and they were endeavouring to escape by Water but there they were catched There was Sir Hugh Campel and Bayley and Sir George Campel and some others I know not the Names of them all truly I can't tell whether Monrow was not another but Sir Hugh Campel I had in my Custody and Bayley was immediately committed to the Gate-house and the rest of the Gentlemen I afterwards took in a cunning Hole by Moor-Fields in a back house And when I came there I found them lyeing on the Bed in the middle of the Day and had them Prisoners in my Custody two or three Months and then they were all sent out of my hands into Scotland Prisoners Six of them there were my Lord that I saw Mr. Att. Gen. We have done my Lord only we desire that a word of a Record may be read Mr. Williams What Record is it Sir Mr. Att. Gen. Of Collonel Sidneys Attainder Mr. Williams My Lord We shall desire your Judgment whether that Record ought to be read against Mr. Hambden I perceive by Mr. Attorney that 't is a Record of the Conviction of Mr. Sidney which ought not to be given in Evidence against Mr. Hambden upon this Indictment Mr. Att. Gen. We make use of it to shew how upon former Tryals upon this Evidence Verdicts have gone Mr. Williams We are in your Judgment my Lord if by Law it may be given in Evidence against Mr. Hambden who is neither Party nor Privy to it nor Indicted for the same Offence Mr. Att. Gen. Let it alone then L. C. Just Well Mr. Attorney does not press it What say you to it Gentlemen for the Defendant Mr. Williams May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury I am of Counsel for Mr. Hambden the Defendant upon this Indictment here before you This Indictment is a severe Indictment It is a very high Crime of which my Clyent is Accused How far the Evidence tends to reach it you have heard and I shall with the patience of the Court particularly observe it to you But I shall first speak to the Indictment it self It saies that Mr. Hambden being a person of a turbulent Disposition and Seditiously intending to disturb and disquiet the King's Peace and to stir Sedition and to bring the Government into danger did Conspire c. As to this matter Gentlemen there is no manner of Proof of what the Indictment charges as to the Disposition of the person Accused nor that he had any other design than what my Lord Howard hath now Sworn Then it saies further that Mr. Hambden did Consult and Conspire with divers persons to execute these purposes and particularly for the making and raising of an Insurrection in the Kingdom This is laid as the particular Fact And for this purpose he did further Conspire with several persons to provide Armes and Armed-men And for their fulfilling of this he did further Consult with several persons that some persons should be sent into Scotland to stir up the Kings Subjects in Scotland to a Concurrence and Conjunction with some People in England about this his evil design How far this Indictment is proved upon the Defendant Gentlemen is the Question before you He has pleaded Not Guilty and hopes to satisfy you he is not Gentlemen as to what Evidence has been given you so far as 't is Positive and Affirmative I mean the Testimony of my Lord Howard in that part it is impossible for us that are of Counsel for the Defendant directly to contradict him with Proof or to give a direct positive proof in answer to it I say 't is impossible for us to contradict him who gives such a positive Evidence of Fact By the Evidence of my Lord Howard he tells us there were Six Persons in this Council as he is pleased to call them By his Evidence three of the six are dead my L. Russel Col. Sidney and the Earl of Essex He himself is the Fourth the Defendant is the Fifth who cannot give Evidence for himself and the Duke of Monmouth who is the Sixth being away there is not any person in being that should contradict my Lord Howard's Affirmative in this part of his Evidence but the Duke of Monmouth Whom we cannot have here since it appears by the Evidence Mr. Att. Gen. could not prevail to have him at this Tryal therefore proof of that nature cannot be reasonably expected from my Clyent to acquit himself by a positive Contradiction of what my Lord Howard has sworn Then in this Case we must as in all Cases where a person does Swear directly against a Defendant endeavour to satisfie and perswade your Lordship and the Jury upon Circumstances arising out of this Fact and further Circumstances attending the Fact and by probable
time concerning this Conspiracy and who were concerned in it and who were not Mr. Ducas My Lord Howard came once to the house of Colonel Sidney I believe it was about 8 days after the Imprisonment of Colonel Sidney and when he was in the house I ask't him What is the matter my Lord he did answer me he was told there was a Plot against the King and the Duke and one general Insurrection to be made and that Colonel Sidney sent a man into Scotland to which thing my Lord Howard sware laying his hand on his breast saying God knows all things and God knows I know nothing of that and I am sure if Colonel Sidney had known any thing he would tell me and I said what is the matter my Lord are you afraid and he made answer to me No honest man is safe in his own house I pray you lend me a Bed to lie in And he asked me about the Goods of Colonel Sidney because of the Plot and such things and he desired to have them removed to his house and he said rather then go to the Tower he would do any thing Mr. Williams Speak again to the Jury that did not hear you what said my Lord Howard to you Mr. Ducas He said rather then to be a Prisoner again he would do any thing Mr. Williams Who to be a Prisoner again Mr. Ducas My Lord Howard Mr. Att. Gen. What things were spoken of Mr. Ducas He said he would do any thing Mr. Williams Were you speaking of the Conspiracy Of the Plot Mr. Ducas He spake of the Plot and said he knew nothing of it Mr. Williams What did he say Sir Mr. Ducas He said to me and swore he knew nothing of it and called God to witness Mr. Williams Pray did he then say he would do any thing rather then go to the Tower when you were talking of the Plot and Conspiracy Mr. Ducas Yes he would do any thing rather then be a Prisoner again Mr. Att. Gen. Pray what did he say Mr. Ducas He raised up his hands on high and said he knew nothing of the Plot or of the Insurrection or that Colonel Sidney had sent any man into Scotland Mr. Williams When was this Mr. Ducas I believe it was 8 or 9 days after the Imprisonment of Colonel Sidney Mr. Att. Gen. What day of the Month and what Month was it Mr. Ducas He was Imprisoned about the end of June L. Howard My Lord It would be necessary that I should make an answer to this and I know not whether I should make a particular answer to every one for here is a whole set of Witnesses I see L. C. J. No let them alone You must not interrupt them they must go on with their Evidence and when 't is a fit time for you to answer them the Council for the King will call you Mr. Williams Pray sware Mr. Howard which was done Pray Sir will you please to acquaint my Lord and the Jury what you know of what my Lord Howard has said of the Plot and who were concerned in it Mr. Howard My Lord what I have said is in the Paper of Mr. Sidney's Tryal and truly I can say no more than what I said there Mr. Williams pray speak out Sir and tell it again to this Jury Mr. Howard I was told I spake it very loud then L. C. J. Pray Sir speak as you please We wont direct you in what Key you shall speak Speak in what Key you will Mr. Howard Then if you will have me speak it I will speak it as loud again My Lord is Mr. Hambden here L. C. J. Yes there he is Mr. Howard In the first place I do not know Mr. Hambden My Lord I cannot promise to speak the very words that I spake the last time I cannot make them so fit as one tally fits another Mr. Att. Gen. Consider Sir you were not Sworn then you are Sworn now That is the difference and therefore pray consider of it Mr. Howard My Lord As near as I can I will repeat the same words again I had little Acquaintance with my Lord Howard But meeting him often at my Brothers House and being he was extraordinary pleasant Company I must needs say that he was so and a Man of great Wit and I coming from White-Hall he asked me what news of the Plot I told him there were some People that were in the Proclamation or would be and I named their Names Says he I know none of them except Rombald I think and by chance I met him passing through the Old Exchange and he saluted me very kindly After this my Lord Russel was taken and when my Lord Howard heard that says he then we are all undone And I very much fear it is a Sham Plot since they have seized upon my Lord and I doubt he is a lost man After that I think as near as I can remember The next thing was this If you look upon the Book you will see what I said there L. C. J. We are not to look upon the Book man You must give your Evidence your self Mr. Howard I hope you do not Swear by Book Let the truth come out in Gods Name whatever it be Mr. Williams Ay my Lord We desire to have truth come out L. C. J. Ay whether it be of one side or the other God forbid but truth should be spoken Mr. Howard go on Mr. Howard Then my Lord Colonel Sidney was taken and says my Lord I am extremely troubled for Colonel Sidney for he is my very good Friend said I why are you not concerned for my Lord Russel He is of your Blood says he he is a man without exceptions There is no man of such honor as he but I am concerned for Colonel Sidney as that particular man that has obliged me above all the World but I never heard my Lord Howard name Mr. Hambden in all my life Lord Howard I l'e give you a reason for it My Lord if you please why I said so L. C. J. My Lord This is Evidence for the Defendant If the Kings Counsel will call you afterwards to make Answer to any of these things then is your time to speak We will not let them interrupt you when you come to speak nor must you interrupt them now We are bound to hear both sides and so by the grace of God we will do Lord Howard My Lord I desire both he and his Brother may stay in Court for I have something to say to them Mr. Williams Pray what did you hear my Lord Howard say concerning the Plot Mr. Howard He did deny it possitively and said they acted nothing but what was Legal and he said it 500 times over Mr. Williams Did he deny it Mr. Howard Yes he did L. C. J. But when he said they acted nothing but legally what did he mean Was this Plot legal Mr. Howard I had former Discourses with my Lord Howard at other times and
I asked him My Lord what tends all this to Your going up into the City and making these meetings says he we intend nothing but what is legal There is not one man in the Company that I know of intends any thing else Mr. Williams What was my Lord's Opinion of the Plot in June or July or August Mr. Howard He said he knew nothing of it nor could he believe there was any such thing When those Persons were named that were to kill the King Lord Bless me said he can there be such a thing in nature that any men should be so wicked but that there is one man of Honor or Estate or Conscience that ever had any such thought it can never into my Head I can never believe it Mr. Williams When was this Mr. Howard When Rombald and those other People were put into the Proclamation Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Howard Then I will ask you your Opinion whether in your Judgment every man that was in the Plot could not have said so much Mr. Howard I suppose every man in the Plot would have defended himself as well as he could but I cannot tell what way Mr. Thompson Sir did he barely affirm it or with Asseverations and Imprecations Mr. Howard My Lord was not upon his Oath before me Mr Att. Gen. Mr Howard Don't you believe a great many that were concerned in this Plot would deny it Mr. Howard I am to give my Opinion only for my self not for other People L. C. J. Have you done with him Mr. Williams Yes my Lord. L. C J. Then go over Sir Mr. Howard My Lord I am troubled with Fumes and cannot well endure a Crowd therefore I desire I may have leave to be gone L. C. J. You may go if you please Mr. Williams Call Mr. Edward Howard but he did not appear Then Swear my Lord of Clare and my Lord Paget which was done L. C. J. Well what do you ask my Lord of Clare Mr. Williams My Lord of Clare Will your Lordship please to acquaint the Court and the Jury what you heard my Lord Howard say concerning the late Conspiracy E. of Clare My Lord Some indisposition I have had of late together with the great rigour of the season has confined me to my House this six Weeks so that I should not come here but upon this Summons of a Subpoena which I thought I ought not to refuse I suppose I need not repeat much of what was said at Colonel Sidney's Tryal L. C. J. My Lord You must give what Evidence you have to give now Mr. Williams My Lord The Gentlemen of this Jury have not heard it therefore you must say it all over again to them E. of Clare Sometime after Mr. Sidney was taken my Lord Howard came to see me and complaining of the Times said That all things were very sad and dangerous and if ever he was questioned again he would not Plead but desire them only to count Noses for the quickest dispatch he thought was best I replyed sure his Lordship was in jest He said No he was in earnest for he was confident if he came to Tryal they would have his Life let him appear never so innocent I said I hoped not so it was only his Lordships fear and because of that I thought it might be presumed he would venture much rather then be Tryed And discoursing of the late Primate of Armagh's Prophecy He said for his part he thought the Persecution was already begun and he did believe it would be very sharp but withal he hoped it would be but short and then he began to wish himself beyond Sea till the Troubles were over and in complyance with his Lordship I did wish so too But as to Sidney he did with great asseverations very much assert his innocency He said he thought he was not guilty of any of the things laid to his Charge and spake with large Encomiums in his praise as he had obligation to do and seemed to bemoan his misfortunes which I said I had then reason to believe he was real in for I believe never any man was more engaged to another then he to Colonel Sidney I told him there was a discourse of some Writings of Mr. Sidneys that were taken he said he was confident they could make nothing of any Writing of his I told him I supposed he meant legall they could not do it This was the most he said as to Mr. Hambden he mentioned nothing that I know of Mr. Williams Did he seem to declare any Opinion about the Plot or Conspiracy in general That there was any such thing or not E. of Clare I do not remember it Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord of Clare Did you never hear my Lord Howard before this complain of the Government that it was amiss and was to be rectified Earl of Clare Yes he often did complain Every body knows my Lord's way of discourse Lord Howard Pray will you ask him if my Lord of Clare used to fall out with me upon those discourses E. of Clare My Lord was always good Company Mr. Att. Gen. You mean a Propos My Lord. E. of Clare I understand what you mean by a Propos you are a Learned man I know Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord of Clare if I apprehend your Lordship aright my Lord Howard was discoursing of the Primate of Armagh's Prophecy and said he thought the Persecution was already begun and would be sharp tho' he hoped it would be short and he wished himself beyond Sea till the Troubles were over and your Lordship wished your self so too E. of Clare No I said in compliance with his Lordship since he wished himself beyond Sea till the Troubles were over I wished he were there too L. C. J. But I perceive all these discourses concerning the Government are reckoned but jests and matter of Laughter but 't is a very rank way of jesting I assure you Mr. Williams My Lord We call our Witnesses seriously they are the Kings Council that jest Mr. Att. Gen. Was this before my Lord Howard was taken E. of Clare Yes but after Mr. Sidney was taken L. C. J. Well who do you call next Mr. Williams My Lord Paget Pray what have you heard my Lord Howard say concerning the Plot and when L. Paget My Lord sits there and I believe he may remember it was about the 7th of July the Saturday before my Lord went into the Country to the best of my memory which was I take it the 9th of July Upon Saturday the 7th at Night my Lord came to see me I told him I was glad to see him abroad and not concerned in the Disorders that were then so general My Lord told me he had been wished joy by several and he took it ill because it looked as if he were guilty 'T is true my Lord was a man of great finess and readiness in discourse and came easily into all Company my Lord said that was true but he had
so carefully behaved himself that he was sure they could not touch him with any thing nor did he know any thing of any body else that he could charge them withal Mr. Williams When was this my Lord L. Paget This was the 7th of July Mr. Att. Gen. Pray good my Lord Why did you joy my Lord Howard had you any reason to mistrust my Lord L. Paget No other reason then because I knew he was a man of great freedom in discourse and might be concerned upon that account Mr. Att. Gen. And he would frequently discourse against the Goverment I suppose L. Paget No I never heard my Lord discourse against the Government in my life Mr. Williams Sware Dr. Burnet which was done Pray will you Doctor acquaint the Court what you heard my Lord Howard say concerning the late Plot and when Dr. Burnet My Lord Howard came to see me the day after the discourse of the Plot broke out Thursday I think it was on Wednesday it began to be talked of The thing was little understood then but in general a Plot was discovered and my Lord with a great many Protestations lifting up his hands and eyes to Heaven protested he knew of none and believed there was none and spake of the whole thing as a Contrivance Mr. Williams This was the day after the Discovery broke out Dr. Burnet Yes the day after that I first heard of it Mr. Williams Had you any other discourse with my Lord about it Dr. Burnet I had not seen my Lord before of some Months And then he spake a great deal to me He told me he had been in Essex and after that he went to the Bath and went so early and came away before the Company came because he would avoid all danger And he expressed great apprehensions of fear of Sham-Plots and spake of False Witnesses and former designs of that Nature The truth of it was one had possessed me much with a belief of the thing it being then but a secret but he strove to dispossess me of that belief and his whole discourse ran upon that for an whole hour and expressed as I said great fear of some Sham-Contrivance and spake much of false Witnesses wishing that he were beyond Sea L. C. J. What he spake as if there were like to be great heats and stirs I suppose Dr. Burnet No the talk was about the Discovery which he said he believed was a Contrivance Mr. Williams Did my Lord Howard use to come to you some times Dr. Burnet Yes he used to come frequently to see me Mr. Att. Gen. Dr. Burnet Pray let me ask you one Question you spake of solemn Declarations and Protestations made by my Lord Howard what gave the occasion to such a Solemnity Dr. Burnet I will tell you the occasion truly tho it was never asked me before It was thus I being possessed with the belief of the thing by one that assured me it was true and would soon appear to be so I argued upon that belief to convince my Lord Howard that it was true and he argued a great deal to dispossess me of that belief And I said if there be any such thing I pray God forgive them that are concerned but certainly it is one of the monstrousest ill things that ever was done for hereby they have done all that could be done to ruine the Protestant Religion He was smoaking a Pipe of Tobacco and he laid down his Pipe and lifted up his hands and eyes to Heaven and protested to me he neither knew of any such thing nor believed it but it was all a Contrivance Mr. Att. Gen. By his discourse you possibly might understand what he meant did he mean being privy to the Murder of the King or the raising of Rebellion Dr. Burnet There was not a word then of the Assassination but it was all of the Plot in general Mr. Att. Gen. Did he make no distinction Dr. Burnet We talked of nothing but Plot in general For the particulars were not then known It was only about the general notion of a Plot. Mr. Att. Gen. Pray what was the reason you had to believe it Dr. Burnet There was a Gentleman from Whitehall that came to see me and he did assure me it was true as being one that had it from a Privy-Councellor This was on the Wednesday when the Council sate long about it and nothing of particulars was then let out but only a discourse in general of such a thing and he said it would be found to be a certain truth Mr. Att. Gen. But Doctor did not you a little wonder at the carriage of my Lord Howard That a man that was not accused that you heard of should make such solemn Protestations Dr. Burnet My Lord he said just in this manner as I have told you when I said Pray God forgive them if any have been concerned in such a thing he laid down his Pipe and lift up his hands and eyes Whether he thought I suspected him or no I can't tell he best knows his own thoughts Mr. Att. Gen. Did he say a word of Mr. Hambden Dr. Burnet No there was not any particular person named Mr. Recorder Doctor he would not make you his Confessor Dr. Burnet His whole hours discourse was to dispossess me of the opinion and belief I had entertained of the Plot. Mr. Just Holloway This was about July you say Dr. Burnet I cannot remember the very day of the Month I believe it was the latter end of June but I am sure it was before any body was Committed that we heard of Mr. Recorder Dr. Burnet you say you did believe there was a Plot then Dr. Burnet Yes I did so and he laboured to dispossess me of that belief Mr. Recorder Pray do you believe it now Mr. Williams What a question is that Mr. Serjeant Dr. Burnet I make no doubt of it Sir as to the Assassination Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord Newport Why do you lift up your hands you don't do well for it is a very proper question L. C. J. Well call your next Witness Gentlemen Mr. Thompson Swear Mr. Gisborne which was done Mr. Williams Pray Sir will you acquaint the Court and the Jury what you have heard my Lord Howard say about the late Conspiracy Mr. Gisborne My Lord only said he knew nothing of the Plot that is all I can say Mr. Williams When was this Mr. Gisborne The Saturday before he was taken into Custody then it was that your honour did say so my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. Ay and 100 more I believe would say so that might be concerned in it for all that Mr. Williams Swear Mr. Blake which was done Pray acquaint my Lord and the Jury what discourse you had with my Lord Howard about his Pardon and what he said to you Mr. Blake My Lord About the Month of October last my Lord Howard sent to me to know how I did and desired me to come and make him a
Mr. Pelham No I was never with him at any time when he discoursed of any such thing Mr. Williams Sir Henry Hobart Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord We oppose his being a Witness He is one of his Bail Mr. Williams That was upon the Habeas Corpus Act not upon this Indictment Mr. Att. Gen. If he be Bail for the Defendant my Lord he cannot be a Witness Mr. Williams I appeal to the Rule of Court whether he was not Bail upon the Habeas Corpus Act only Mr. Att. Gen. Appeal where you will the Bail cannot be a Witness Mr. Williams We moved for an Habeas Corpus the beginning of last Term upon the late Act for Habeas Corpus's And then at the last day of the Term upon Habeas Corpus he was brought up thither and was Bailed upon that Writ Mr. Att. Gen. Are not you one of the Bail Sir Henry Hobart Sir Henry Hobart I was one of his Bail I think it was for his appearance L. C. J. If he be one of his Bail that he shall appear in this Court the first day of this Term and so from day to day till he shall be discharged and remains under that Recognizance then in any Case against him he cannot be a Witness for him Mr. Att. Gen. But they mistake the matter He was then charged with this Indictment He then Pleaded to it and was Bailed to answer the Indictment and surely in that case he can never be a Witness L. C. J. That is certainly very true and you know the Law so well Mr. Williams that I wonder you will insist of it in every ordinary Case it is every days practice to deny the Bail to be Witnesses Mr. Att. Gen. Here is the person principal will they render him in Custody L. C. J. Ay what say you will you render him in custody Then we will discharge the Bail Mr. Williams My Lord I will tell you what we will do L. C. J. Tell me what you will do answer my question will you render him in Custody Mr. Williams We will change the Bail My Lord and find some other sufficient Person to stand in Sr. Henry Hobart's place rather then lose our Witness L. Ch. Just With all my Heart Mr. Williams Here is Mr. Ashhurst my Lord a Gentleman of very good value L. J. C. But you must render him first and change the whole Bail They must enter into new Recognizances Mr. Will. I can't tell whether we can do that so very well because the others I am afraid are not all here He is a mighty material Witness I am sure Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord Mr. Williams says he is a material Witness let him be sworn I am so fair I 'll consent to it Let us hear what he can say Which was done Mr. Will. We thank you Mr. Attorney I am afraid you won't live long you are so good natured L. C. J. But you are like to live for your good Nature Mr. Williams Mr. Thompson Sir Henry Hobart How long have you been acquainted with this Gentleman Mr. Hambden Sir H. Hobart I have known him any time these Ten years Mr. Williams How has he been Sir as to his Disposition and Spirit Did you ever find him to be of a turbulent temper Sir H. Hobart Very far from it always Mr. Will. Have you had any intimate conversation with him Sir H. Hobart I have known him all along I say these Ten years but of late I have had more converse with him some few years in Travel Mr. Will. Had you much conversation Sir Sir H. Hobart I was with him continually at Paris and abroad Mr. Will. What say you as to his Loyalty and Principles Was he a Factious Seditious Person Sir H. Hobart Sir He always expressed a great esteem for the Government and great respect and duty to the King Mr. Will. Pray Sir when went Mr. Hambden abroad to go into France Sir H. Hobart He went into France for his Health about November 80. I think it was Mr. Will. How long did he continue abroad Sir Henry Sir H. Hobart I found him in Paris the May after Mr. Will. How long did you tarry there Sir your self Sir H. Hobart I went from Paris in June and came back again to Paris about October or November the same Year and I found him in France still Mr. Will. And when do you take it he returned into England Sir H. Hobart I was with him till he came over which was about September 82 I think Mr. Thompson What do you know Sir of his intentions to go again beyond Sea Sir H. Hobart When Sir do you mean Mr. Thompson Since that time he came over you say in September 82. Sir H. Hobart He told me of it often I think it was about March more particularly once at his own house Mr. Thompson What March Sir Sir H. Ho. March 83. Mr. Thompson That is last March Sir H. Hobart Yes last March he talked of it several times particularly once I went about some business of my own and then he discours'd a great deal of his going over with my Lord Mountague that now is for he told me his health was not yet established for he came over out of an hot Country in Autumn and had been all the Winter in this colder Country and the Air he found had impaired his health again And it was not only what he told me but I had a Letter from a Friend of mine in France to whom I had sent to desire him to come over but he writ me word no Mr Hambden was coming over again and he would not come back yet Mr. Att. Gen. Did he tell you when he intended to go over Sir Henry Sir H. Hobart As soon as Mr. Mountague my Lord Mountague that now is could get ready who was to carry his Lady over with him Mr. Will. Sir Do you know of any preparation made by Mr. Hambden for it Sir H. Hobart He had resolved to take his Lady with him because Mr. Mountagues Lady went and so I believe did prepare accordingly Mr. Att. Gen. Did Mr. Mountague go over Sir H. Hobart He did not go then but since he is gone Mr. Att. Gen. Were you in France then at this time Sir H. Ho. This was in England at his own house Mr. Will. Pray Sir what is his Disposition Sir H. Hobart He was always inclined to a studious Life and kept very little Company Mr. Att. Gen. Was this in March 83 Sir H. Hobart Yes he came over in September before I always observed him to be of a retired temper Mr. Att. Gen. You say in 1680. he went into France and in 82 he came over again Sir H. Hobart Yes Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Sir Henry since you convers'd so much with him Have you heard him since the last Parliament at Westminster or at any time have you been by when he hath discours'd his Opinion about Government Sir H. Hobart Truly Sir I don't take my self to be
capable of discoursing with him about any such matters Mr. Att. Gen. Have you heard him at any time complain of the Male Administration of the Government Sir H. Ho. No Sir Mr. Att. Gen. Have you never heard any such thing from him Sir H. Hobart No never Mr. Will. Swear Dr. Lupee My Lord We must desire an Interpreter for the Dr. Speaks French only L. C. Just Swear an Interpreter Mr. Will. Dr. Burnet or if he be gone call Sir Henry Ho. again We must beg the favor of you Sir Henry to be an Interpreter you understand the French Tongue very well Sir H. Ho. I will do it with all my Heart Sir as well as I can L. C. Just Swear him Cryer You shall well and truly Interpret between the Court and the Witness and the Witness and the Court according to the best of your skill and knowledge So help you God Mr. Thompson Sir Henry Will you please to repeat what Questions we shall ask and what Answers he makes Sir H. Ho. Yes Sir as well as I can I will Mr. Will. Pray Sir ask the Dr. this Question If he be acquainted with Mr. Hambden Sir H. Ho. Yes he says very well He lived near two years with him Mr. Thompson How long is it since Sir H. Ho. Four years since he says Mr. Will. Pray in that time What was his Disposition Was he a Seditious and Turbulent Man Or was he a studious retired Man or What Sir H. Ho. He says the two years he lived with Mr. Hambden he kept him Company in his Studys and all that time he found he had no other inclinations but for study and knowledge and his inclinations were very Vertuous He always observed in his Discourse a great submission and respect that he had for the Laws of his Nation and his Prince and to that degree he was a faithful Subject to the King that once he told him in discoursing with him of the late Popish Plot that he was ready to Sacrifice his Life and Fortune for the King's service Mr. Thomp Ask him what discourse he had with him of the Plot since it brake out L. C. Just Will that be any evidence do you think Mr. Thompson Will Mr. Hambden's declaration be any evidence he being a Person accused Do you think he would tell the Doctor or any Body else that he was Guilty when he was like to be questioned That would have been a wise business indeed You say he was a very studious Man and a learned Man truly if he had done that he had bestow'd his time in Learning to very good purpose Mr. Will. My Lord That that we would ask him is this This Person the Doctor being discoursing with Mr. Hambden upon the discovery of the late Conspiracy and of the dangerousness of the time he would have advised Mr. Hambden to have gone no he said he would not for he was an innocent Man and would not stir L. C. J. Well ask him what you will but his declaration of his own Innocence cannot be taken for Evidence Sir H. Ho. He says since this Plot was discovered he was going one Day to visit Mr. Hambden and going through long Acre he met a French Minister a Savoyard Minister But my Lord he speaks so fast and goes on with so much at a time that I cannot remember it all Mr. Will. Well what said that Minister to him Sir H. Ho. He says this Minister asked him if Mr. Hambden was not concerned in the Plot and upon that he went and told him what the Minister had said to him He says he told Mr. Hambden that the Duke of Monmouth and my Lord Gray were hid He says upon that Mr. Hambden said to him I will never fly nor conceal my self for my Conscience reproaches me in nothing L. C. J. Ask him why does he think the French Minister the Savoyard as he calls him should ask whether Mr. Hambden were in the Plot Sir H. Ho. He says Mr. Hambden said he would rather die innocent then fly with the imputation of guilt upon him L. C. J. But ask him the Question I put Why should that Savoyard Parson say so what reason had he to think Mr. Hamdden was in the Plot Sir H. Ho. He says the Minister did ask him but he can't tell what Reason he had to think so Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Sir Henry ask him this Question How long ago it was since he left him Sir H. Ho. Four year he says Mr. Att. Gen. Where was it in England or France Sir H. Ho. Whilst he lived in Bloomsbury he says Mr. Will. Call Dr. Needham and Monsieur Justell who appeared and Monsieur Justell was sworn Pray Sir H. Hobart will you ask Monsieur Justell who speaks French too If he know any thing of Mr. Hambden's Resolution to Travel with Mr. Mountague into France Sir H. Ho. He says Yes He did tell him he was going into France and he offered to carry some Books for him along with him Mr. Will. What Company was he to go in and what time Sir H. Ho. He says Sir he can't be exact to the Month when Mr. Hambden spake of going over but he says it was a great while before this Plot came to be discovered Mr. Will. Was it some Months before Sir H. Ho. It was a Month before it was known he says Mr. Will. In what Company was he to go Sir H. Ho. He said he was to go with Mr. Mountague Mr. Conyers Pray Sir Will you ask him Was he employ'd to get any French Servants to be with him Sir H. Hobart Yes he says L. C. J. Ay but what was the Question for there is such a crowd of People before the Council that the Court cannot hear Mr. Conyer's Question Mr. Can. My Lord I asked him Whether he was employ'd to get any French Servants to be with Mr. Hambden Sir H. H. Yes he says L. C. J. Well there is Dr. Needham What do you ask him Mr. Will. We call Dr. Needham for this purpose my Lord to prove that these Gentlemen that are accused Mr. Hambden and my Lord of Essex and the others had very little esteem and mean Opinion of my Lord Howard And how one they so little esteemed should be let into so great a secret will be very strange to imagine Dr. Needham Pray what can you say of any of these Gentlemens Opinions of my Lord Howard What Opinion had my Lord of Essex of him L. C. J. Is my Lord of Essex now before us What is that to this Case Mr. Williams Let my Lord of Essex have what Opinion he would of him How does that concern the Defendant Mr. Will. I tell you why I offer it my Lord. L. C. J. But pray offer what is evidence and keep to the business before you Mr. Will. Falsus in uno falsus in omnibus If we can prove that what he hath said of my Lord of Essex is false he is not to be believed against
But now Gentlemen As he did swear it before he had his pardon from time to time upon all occasions when he was called as a Witness So now the Pardon is come which they would have to be the reason of the continuance of his Drudgery he swears the same thing He has his pardon under the King's Seal and though it might be thought they would keep him within the compass of his Tether till he had done his Evidence now he has got that he desired he swears the same thing And now his pardon does not at all influence his testimony he is not under any fear but is as free as any Subject the King has and now he is upon his Oath he gives you the account you have had and he did say all the same things before such time as Col. Sidney my L. Russel were tryed that he says now Then Gentlemen you have in the next place Witnesses called several of them to give you an Account of the Conversation and disposition of Mr. Hambden for says Mr. Williams for a man to be guilty of a Crime of this nature there must be some kind of evil disposition to it and so Mr. Williams would argue and make this inference You see he is not a man of a turbulent seditious and factious Spirit and temper he is a studious person very retired that has been beyond Sea much and came not home till such a time And if there were interlocutions between my Lord Howard and my Lord Shaftsbury it was before he came into England and so he was not concerned in them He says That March last he was to go again he had a mind to return again to France for his health and what reason have we to imagine he should concern himself in the Plot When he was so studious a Man lived so retired a life and intended to go abroad so suddenly And for this you have my Lord Paget Mr. Pelham Sir Henry Hobart Dr. Lupee Monsieur Justel and one Murray Mr. Williams Murray my Lord we did not examine Lord Chief Justice 'T is true I beg your pardon Well then these others tell you They have been persons very intimately conversant with him they never knew he concerned himself with any thing about Government but was of a quiet peaceable demeanor and was so far from that which the Indictment talks of Turbulency and Sedition that they never had any discourse with him about any such thing at all save what Dr. Lupee says who it seems lived with him about two years and kept him Company in his Studies and that once having some discourse about the Popish Plot He said he would venture his Life and any thing he had to preserve the King and Government against that Plot he did very well and if he had since declared he would have ventured his life to have secured the King and Government against this Plot I should have been glad to find him of that mind I pray God you may find him to be so But from the Evidence even of that French man it seems there was some Jealousie in the World and that he lay under hard Censures as well as other people For speaking of the Plot the Advice given him was this My Lord Grey is gone and the Duke of Monmouth is gone why won't you go Why should that advice be given if there were no suspition of his being concerned That he said I will not go and so they would make his staying here to be an instance and proof of his innocence Why Gentlemen If that should be so then there was the same innocency in my Lord Russel and Col. Sidney and all of them for all the Council of Six every one of them stay'd except the Duke of Monmouth and he indeed did abscond And the same Evidence that made the Duke of Monmouth fly and my Lord Essex out his own throat convicted my Lord Russel and Col. Sidney and is now brought against the Defendant and has from time to time been given against the rest We know no reason that they had to stay more than West or Romsey had to stay and be taken and yet that is not used by them as an argument of their innocency These are the Evidences that have been given on the Defendants part and I tell you as I go along what Answers are given to it on the part of the King As to what is spoken of his intention to go again into France if he designed to go why did he not go before all this mischief broke out He came here at Michaelmas and I may say he came it may be at an unlucky time when the City and its Neighbourhood was in a Distemper and some Men were blown with fears and jealousies These might animate him and inspirit him as they did other people and put them into a ferment but you find him attending in Town constantly here till the matter was discovered whatsoever his intentions were 't is much he did not put them into Action 't is strange he did not go all this while it had been much for his advantage That he had never come out of France or that he had returned thither much sooner Against all this that has been urged for the Defendant about my Lord Howard I will tell you what is the Answer to it and truly first I say I am apt to believe my Lord Howard did tell these Gentlemen what they here testifie but was it ever thought That any Man that was guilty of High Treason would presently proclaim his own guilt Is it reasonable to imagine my Lord Howard would tell Dr. Burnet I am in a Plot and Col. Sidney is in a Plot and Mr. Hambden is in a Plot and make it his Common talk nay it is so far from being an Argument of his Innocency That more naturally it may be turned upon them as an Argument of his Guilt For if a Man had not been concerned in the business at all but were an honest Man and free from suspition what need I talk or concern my self to proclaim my own innocency not being accused Why must I tell Col. Sidney's Footman This Man the other Man That I know nothing of the Plot and neither I nor any other Man I am sure is concerned in it But that shews there was a dread and apprehension upon him of something that he was conscious of and that lying within must have some vent and this Over-Caution is an intimation that there was something more than ordinary in the matter We take notice of it as a great Evidence against a Man that is accused for an High-way Man if he comes to such an Ale-house or Inn and bids the People take notice I am here at such a time of the day and that is a circumstance of time that will serve to answer a proof it may be that may be brought against him of a Robbery done such a time but we always look upon that industry of theirs as a
piece of Artifice designed to patch up a testimony to evade a proof So that the Argument will turn the other way and 't is more for the advantage of these worthy Gentlemen that it should be turned the other way for otherwise they would be thought to be Persons ill-affected to the Government that is Dr. Burnet my Lord Paget my Lord Clare and the rest And if they have a mind to be thought otherwise they must let the Argument run that way as I say and in Charity we ought to believe the best of all mankind till we find otherwise by them We say then in Charity We suppose He thought it not fit to intrust you with his Confessions for you are all Loyal Men I know 't is the best Answer that can be given and that which they ought to value themselves upon for their own credit and reputation and not to make it an Argument against my Lord Howard or against the credibility of his testimony in the metter I don't know truly Gentlemen That I have omitted any one thing that is material on the one side or on the other of which there hath been any proof but I must onely repeat to you this Here is a matter of great concern and Consequence a matter wherein the peace of the Government and the Kingdom is concerned in a very high degree a matter that if there were another Witness as positive against the Defendant as my Lord Howard would amount to no less than High Treason But as there is but one Witness backed with these Circumstances to corroborate his testimony 't is but onely a Trespass but I tell you it treads very nigh upon High Treason and the tendency of it was to bring us all into Confusion and what would be the consequence of that but to lay us open to the same mischiefs that we were under in the times of the late Rebellion For though Men pretend never so fair and vail it under the names of the Security of the Government and the Protestant Religion yet they would have done well to have tarried till they had a legal Authority to call them to consult of these High matters that they pretend to secure that had been well What had these Gentlemen to do to take upon themselves this Power without Authority Gentlemen You have heard the Evidence and you see what it is And I must say in the late Evidences you have had concerning another business of this nature I wish that might be said to preserve and support the Credit of some Persons upon whose testimonies Lives have been taken away as has been said and is evident for the advantage of my Lord Howard I do not find that he has been guilty of Perjury as being concerned in taking Oaths one way and then giving Evidence another I mean first taking Oaths of Secresie and then revealing not but that notwithstanding all this They may be believed and God forbid but they should be believed according to truth But I say if Objections of this nature are to prevail we must never expect any great Crime to be punished because we must stay till Persons that are strangers to the guilt of the Fact come to give Evidence of it which is impossible to be done Therefore Gentlemen I must resolve it all into one Head You have the Case of a Gentleman of Quality on the one side and the peace and preservation of the Government on the other side You hear what is proved against him the Evidence given on his behalf the Objections that have been made by the Counsel which all of them as near as I can remember I have repeated to you and I ask your pardon and theirs if I have omitted any thing and I desire to be minded of it You hear the Answers that have been given And because the Counsel were unwilling to give the Court trouble or themselves to make long Speeches and Observations Therefore I have been necessitated to do it as well I can Upon the whole matter My Lord Howard has thus positively sworn the matter of Fact charged in the Indictment against the Defendant he has been supported by the Witnesses that confirm the circumstances of Smith's going into Scotland the Scotch-Men's being here in June and the Sham and Cant. of Carolina All which you have heard and I make no question observed and is not contradicted by any thing I hear that carries any probability of an Answer Therefore Gentlemen I leave it to you whether upon this Evidence you will take it upon your Consciences and Oaths That my Lord Howard is Guilty of wilful and corrupt Perjury Then you must find the Defendant not Guilty But if you think he has proved the matter fully and his testimony is supported by those four Witnesses Atterbury Sir Andrew Foster Sheriff and Bale Then Gentlemen you must find the Defendant Guilty Juriman My Lord We desire to ask one Question At the meeting at Mr. Hamden's House I think my Lord Howard says they went to Dinner Mr. Just Holloway No it was at Coll. Sidney's they went to Dinner L. C. J. I know not whether you have taken notice of it but I have it was at Coll. Sidney's they dined not at Mr. Hambden's Then the Jury withdrew from the Bar and within half an Hour the Jury returned and being called over answered to their Names and gave in their Verdict thus Cl. of Crown Are you all agreed of your Verdict Omnes Yes Cl. of Cr. Who shall say for you Omnes Foreman Cl. of Cr. How say you Is the Defendant guilty of the Trespass and Misdemeanor whereof he is impeached or not guilty Foreman Guilty Which Verdict being recorded the Court rose Martis 12. Februarii An. 1683. B. R. L. C. J. Mr. Attorney Have you any thing to move Mr. At. Gen. I pray your Judgment against Mr. Hambden my Lord who was convicted the other day of a great Misdemeanor L. C. J. Let Mr. Hambden come into the Court then which he did Mr. At. Gen. My Lord I need not aggravate the hainousness of the Offence for it appears both by the Information and upon the Evidence to be beyond all Aggravation wherefore I shall onely pray your Judgment for the King That you would please to set a good Fine upon him and that he find Sureties for his good behaviour during his Life Mr. Williams May it please your Lordship I am of Counsel for Mr. Hambden L. C. J. Are the Rules out in this Cause Mr. Williams Yes my Lord they are out L. C. J. Well then what say you for Mr. Hambden Mr. Williams Mr. Hambden does attend here according to the Condition of his Recognizance and since Mr. Attorney hath prayed your Judgment I shall not stir any thing as to the Indictment or the Verdict but all I have to say for him is this Mr. Hambden is but Heir apparent his Father is alive and so though he has the prospect of a good Estate yet he has but