acquaintance we had was when you put me upon the Design about Fitz Girald Colledge Pray Sir You go too fast already as you are still gallopping where was this discourse about his Majesty Haynes I told you before Colledge What was it Haynes I went to you after the Affidavit was made and told you there was a Warrant out after me and desired you to go to That Noble-man and desire his Advice what I might do or whether I might supersede the Warrant You told me you could do nothing without advice and you would go and advise with That Noble-man Colledge My Lord here is Mr. Turbervile come in they will over-hear one another pray let me have fair Play for my Life whereupon Turbervile withdrew L. C. Just Can't you answer him when was the first time you came acquainted with him Mr. Serj. Jefferies When was the first discourse you had with him Haynes In April last Colledge You say it was before the Sitting of the Parliament and that was in March Haynes I meant in March Colledge So indeed you said at first Mr. Serj. Jefferies He never did say the day of the Month nor the Month neither Mr. Jones How long was it before the Sitting of the Parliament Haynes Mr. Jones truely I do not remember precisely how long it was before the Sitting of the Parliament but I am sure it was before Mr. Serj. Jefferies I did take it that he said it was before the Sitting of the Parliament and now he says in the Month of March Pray at that time he talked to you did not he tell you of the Sitting of the Parliament and that they would stand by you Colledge He hath said it already you need not direct him Sir George he goes fast enough But you say Sir the first time I ever was acquainted with you was in March then Gentlemen consider whether it be probable that at that time I should discourse to him after this manner L. C. Just No I will tell you what he says He said the first time he was intimately acquainted with you was in March he said he had before seen you in Coffee-houses and he is sure it was before the Sitting of the Parliament for he tells you the discourse you had and by that discourse it appears it related to a Parliament that was afterwards to Sit. And then to give you a more particular Circumstance he says that you put him upon the making of the Affidavit about Fitz-Girald and so you came acquainted Haynes Ask Mr. Attorney My Lord that day he was taken and carried to Whitehall before the Secretary of State He said I do not know who it should be that should accuse me I believe it is Ivy as for Haynes he was taken t'other day he was an honest man Colledge You say I desired you to make an Affidavit was it after that or before I had that discourse with you Haynes It was after For I came and desired you to go to such a Person of Quality and you went to him and advised with him and then the next Morning such discourse as I told your Lordship and the whole Court of he told me Colledge Did I speak these Treasonable words after the Affidavit made Haynes You said I must make such an Affidavit concerning Fitz-Girald Colledge But was this Treasonable discourse before you made the Affidavit or after Haynes After the Affidavit made you told me this When I came to his house and from thence we went to the Hercules Pillars Mr. Sol. Gen. Will you ask him any more Questions Mr. Colledge Colledge Did you ever speak with me in you Life before Macnamarra did call me out of the Coffee-House to go along with you where you would discover a design against my Lord Shaftesbury's Life Haynes I told you I never had any intimate acquaintance with you in my Life before nor did I ever speak with you before Colledge When was that discourse I ask you once again Haynes After the Affidavit made Colledge That Night Haynes Within a Week or thereabouts after the Affidavit made Mr. Att. Gen. Call Mr. Edward Turbervile But Mr. Haynes I would ask you one Question Did he deliver you any Ribband as a mark of distinction Haynes Yes here it is and it was shewd to the Court. Then Mr. Turbervile was sworn Mr. Serj. Jeff. Pray Mr. Turbervile will you tell my Lord and the Jury what discourse you had with Mr. Colledge and where and when Mr. Turbervile When the Parliament sat in Oxon about the middle of the week I can't be positive in the day but I think it was in the middle of the Week I dined with Mr. Colledge Captain Brown and Don Lewes Clerk of Derby-House at the Chequer Inn. After Dinner Don Lewes went out about some business and Captain Brown went to sleep Mr. Colledge and I fell talking of the Times and I was observing I thought the Parliament was not a long lived Parliament Said he There is no good to be expected from the King for he and all his Family are Papists and have ever been such you know it Sir Mr. Serj. Jeff. Nay don't appeal to him Mr. Turbervile Said I The King will offer some thing or other by way of surprize to the Parliament Said he I would he would begin but if he do not we will begin with him and seize him for there are several Brave Fellows about this Town that will secure him till we have those Terms that we expect from him L. C. Just. Where was this Mr. Turbervile At the Chequer-Inn in Oxon. L. C. Just. What said he further Mr. Turbervile He said he had got a Case of Pistols and a very good Sword and a Velvet Cap and I can't be positive he had Armour on but I believe he had Mr. Att. Gen. Did he tell you he came down for that purpose to seize the King Mr. Turbervile Yes and he gave me a piece of Blew Ribband to put in my Hat he had a great Quantity of it Mr. Att. Gen. What was that for Mr. Turbervile To be a distinction if there should be any disturbance when the thing should be done Colledge What thing done Mr. Turbervile I knew nothing but of your telling me of it Colledge Where was this Mr. Turbervile At the Chequer-Inn in Oxon Mr. Colledge You talk much and can't remember all you say Mr. Att. Gen. What did he discourse to you about Arms and an Horse Mr. Turbervile I told him I had never an Horse and nothing but a Case of Pistols he bid me I should not trouble my self for he would get me an Horse Colledge What to do Mr. Turbervile To carry on your design I know not what it was but by your words Mr. Att. Gen. Tell what he said of it at the Chequer Inne Mr. Turbervile He said there was a Design to Seize the King Mr. Att. Gen. Did he desire you to be one of them Mr. Turbervile He did desire me to be
Brooks as to this Discourse But I declare I did never hear it and Mr. Smith was the first man that ever I heard it from I never heard it before in my Life Colledge Would he have had you been an Evidence and swore it Mr. Bolron Yes he said he had given an Account of it to the King and if I did manage it rightly against my Lord Shaftesbury and Colledge he would make me for ever those two Persons were mentioned all along But I do declare it I did never hear them speak Treason against the King in my Life And he did further tell me that I must say so and so for if we did not agree it would signifie nothing But my Lord I know nothing of the matter I never heard any one speak of it but Mr. Smith My Lord this is true Mr. Mowbray was the man that was by when it was Discoursed Mr. Just Jones He would have had you sworn it would he Mr. Bolron I discovered it to my Lord Mayor Mr. Att. Gen. When did you discover it Mr. Bolron Soon after I came to Town Mr. Att. Gen. When was it Mr. Bolron Some time last week Mr. Att. Gen. Was it on Saturday last Mr. Bolron It was the beginning of the week Mr. Serg. Jefferies Thou art such a Discoverer Mr. Bolron My Lord 't is very true what I say If I had known any such thing I would have discovered it Mr. Serg. Jefferies Thou wouldest have discovered it before that time of my Conscience Colledge My Lord he hath been an Evidence against the Papists as well as Mr. Smith and therefore pray Sir George don't make your flourishes upon him Mr. Serg. Jefferies He was an Evidence but he had the misfortune never to be believed Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know any thing of any Pictures of Mr. Colledge's making Have you seen Raree Shew Mr. Bolron Never in my Life Mr. Att. Gen. Did you not shew it in Oxford Mr. Bolron No never in my Life Mr. Serg. Holloway Did you never declare to any Gentleman of Oxford that Colledge made this Picture Mr. Bolron I have seen the Character of a Popish Successor but I never saw Raree Shew Mr. Serg. Holloway Here is the very Gentleman my Lord that will make Oath of it Mr. Bolron He was supposed to make them I did not know that he did Mr. Serg. Jefferies I do only desire one thing I do not say that you ever had Raree Shew but did you ever tell any body that Colledge made any of these Pictures Mr. Bolron I have heard of such a Paper but I did never see it in my life Mr. Serg. Jefferies Do you know that Gentleman Mr. Bolron Mr. Bolron I know him not Mr. Serg. Jefferies I would ask you whether you ever had any Discourse with that Gentleman Mr. Bolron Never in my life Then the Gentleman was sworn being a Master of Arts. Mr. Serg. Jefferies What is the Gentlemans Name Mr. Serg. Holloway Mr. Charlett of Trinity Colledge Mr. Serg. Jefferies Pray Sir do you know that Person there Mr. Charlett My Lord in the new Coffee-House that was by the Schools that was set up in the Parliament-time there was a Gentleman that is in the Court I think one Mr. Dashwood and one Mr. Box were there together to drink a Dish of Coffee and hearing that some of the Evidence were there we desired their Company up and that Gentleman was one and among other Discourse they were speaking of some Pictures and they shewed us the Picture of the Tantivies Mr. S. Jeff. Did this man shew it you Mr. Char. This very man It was the Pictures of the Tantivies and the Towzer he told me they were made by Colledge he was a very ingenious man Mr. Bolr. I know nothing of it the Character of a Popish Successor I have seen but never the other I never shewed him any such thing Then the Pictures were shewn him Mr. Char. It was something like this but I cannot say for any of the other Mr. Bolr. The Character of a Popish Successor I say I have seen and Colledge himself hath told me he made the Character of a Popish Successor I do not deny that I have seen that L. C. J. Would you ask him any more Questions Mr. Bolr. My Lord I have something more to say concerning Mr. Brian Hains In January February and April last several times I was in his Company and I heard him say he knew nothing of a Popish Plot nor of a Presbyterian Plot neither but if he were to be an Evidence he did not care what he swore but would swear and say any thing to get money Mr. Just Jones Did he tell you so Mr. Bolr. Yes I did hear him say To day he would be a Papist to morrow a Presbyterian he did not care for Religion he would never die for Religion he would be of that Religion that had the strongest party My Lord he told me so at my own house in Fleetstreet Colledge He would say any thing for money pray my Lord take notice of that for so I find he does Mr. Bolron Then there is Dennis Macnamarra and John Macnamarra Mr. Ser. Jeff. We have nothing to say to them Colledge They have been Evidences against me though you do not now produce them they are all in a string but they are not now brought because my Witnesses are prepared to answer them L. C. J. Will you call your next Witness Colledge Mr. Mowbray Pray Sir do you know Narrative Smith as he calls himself Mr. Mowbray Yes my Lord. Colledge What do you know of it Mr. Mowbray I came up from York with him when I returned after I was commanded down upon the Kings account to give in Evidence against Sir Miles Stapleton he came to me the third of August and called at my house in Yorkshire and was very importunate for me to come up to London with him for he said he had a Letter come to him which commanded his presence at London very suddenly and he produced that Letter which he said came from a Gentleman of the Court or some Court dependent so he read the Letter in Mr. Balron's hearing We set forward on Sunday and upon our journey to London he told me he had something of importance to impart to me so upon the road he began to discourse of the Parliament and of the illegal proceedings and Arbitrary power of the 2 last Parliaments he said their proceedings were very Illegal and Arbitrary and he began to open some of the Votes as that which they voted that those that should lend the King money upon the Crown lands should be enemies to the King and Kingdom and those that Counselled the King to dissolve the Parliament and he repeated many Votes and said he these are signs of Arbitrary power and certainly they design to take off the King so he proceeded further to ask me what was the discourse of Sir John Brooks when we came up
do but to go with the Parliament and I will not neglect it This was all the discourse of the company for that night Colledge Did you hear Mr. Smith say any thing against me Mr. Norreys No not a word at all Colledge But this were a material Evidence against others of the Confederates if they had been examined Mr. Norreys My Lord I was at the Amsterdam Coffee-house the twenty third of June last and there was Mr. Denis Macnamarra said he Will you go and I will give you a pot of Ale L. C. J. There is nothing of Denis Macnamarra in question before us If you have any thing to say against any of the Witnesses that have been Sworn go on with your Evidence we must not hear stories of other people Colledge He would speak against some men that have Sworn against me but are left out for some Reasons I know not Pray call Mr. Thomas Norreys L. C. J. What do you ask him Colledge My Lord he knew me in this Country some fifteen or sixteen years ago Mr. T. Norreys My Lord I have been acquainted with Mr. Colledge about sixteen or eighteen years and he hath always carried himself very civilly and well and he kept to the Church for a considerable time as duely as any Parishioner did L. C. J. How long have you known him Mr. T. Norreys This sixteen year L. C. J. You live in this Country don't you Mr. T. Norreys Yes at Aylworth Colledge I was at Astrop-wells last year I believe Mr. Justice Levins saw me there Mr. T. Norreys Yes I was there with you Colledge We did discourse commonly then concerning the Papists Pray Sir did you find me inclined to the Popish Interest Mr. T. Norreys You spoke very much against them Colledge Did you ever hear me speak against the King or the Government Mr. T. Norreys No I never heard it for if he were my Brother I should have discovered it L. C. J. How often have you seen him Mr. T. Norreys Very often and conversed much with him Colledge My Lord as to the Papers charged upon me that they were mine I declare I know not of them Dugdale says I owned them and the Letter and several Prints but truly my Lord I had done my self a great injury if I had done or owned those things he hath charged me withal I never could make a Picture nor never did draw a Picture in my life and that very person that he says I owned I got it to be printed by hath denyed it before the King and Council for he there testified that he did not know the person that caused it to be printed L. C. J. How came you to have so many seized in your house Colledge My Lord here is Elizabeth Hunt the Maid by whom they were taken in and who can give you an account of it I cannot deny but that they were in my house but that I was the Author or did take them in is as great a mistake as ever was made Call Elizabeth Hunt I do not know whether Curtis be in Town but this I am confident he was Examined before the King and Council and he and his Wife denyed it L. C. J. He shall be called if he be here Colledge I know nothing of the printing of them nor was I the Author of them L. C. J. They were dispersed by you up and down Colledge That they were in my house I believe my Lord and this woman will tell you how my Lord. Pray tell the Court how these Papers that are called the Raree-shew came to be in my house El. Hunt A Porter brought three bundles to our house and asked whether my Master was not within I told him no he was not Said he These Papers are to be left here said I Who do they come from said he 't is all one for that you must pay me and I must leave them here so I gave him six pence and he left the Papers but I never saw the man since nor before And my Lord I never read them what they were but I saw they were such sort of prints as those L. C. J. How long was it before they were seized El. Hunt A matter of seven or eight weeks Colledge My Lord it seems they were put in a Box and left in my Counting house I never touched them but there they staid for ought I know till they were taken L. C. J. You were Colledges Servant were you not El. Hunt Yes my Lord. Colledge My Lord I neither knew the Printer nor the Author but I heard a man was in trouble about them upon a By-Law in the Stationers Company Mr. Att. Gen. How came you by that Original Colledge Have you it there I know of none was produced But if I were a person concerned it were no Treason and my Lord I hope you will do me that Justice to let the Jury know they are not Treason none of these Papers And I do declare I know nothing of the Original the Printer nor the Author L. C. J. You spend time in making Observations out of order of time when you have given your Evidence then make your Observations Colledge I confess I may erre as to matter of Order for I was never in this capacity before But pray do you tell the Court how the Papers came there and all the transactions For I was a Prisoner when they came and searched L. C. J. No it was eight weeks before you were taken they were left there Mr. Serj. Jefferies Did you tell your Master soon after they were left there El. Hunt No. Mr. Serj. Jefferies Within what time did you tell him El. Hunt I believe it was a week or a fortnight Mr. Att. Gen. Where was your Master all that time El. Hunt He was in the Countrey Colledge My Lord I did see them there I must confess I do not deny but I saw them there but I knew not whence they came nor whose they were Nor did I ever intend to meddle with them nor concern my self about them What have you to say more El. Hunt Concerning Mr. Dugdgale if I may speak L. C. J. Ay go on El. Hunt I went to receive the Money of Mr. Dugdale that he owed my Master and asking him for it he said he would pay me such a time to morrow morning if I would come for it but when I came he had not the Money ready for me Sir said I I think 't is very hard that you should keep my Masters Money from him and yet you go and Swear against his Life too what do you think we shall do at home in the Family if you keep my Masters Money and he be in Prison Said he There is a great deal of do about my Swearing against your Master more than needs but as I hope for Salvation I do not believe Mr. Colledge had any more hand in any Conspiracy against His Majesty than the Child unborn Here is Dugdale let him deny it
you delivered to him in the Tower Colledge The three pieces joyned together that contains Directions how to Govern my self there is another of the same purpose which instructs me to demand a Copy of the Indictment and of the pannel of the Jury and those were Instructions to tell me what the Law allows me Mr. Att. Gen. Here is a Speech made for you that begins thus Before you Plead speak to this Purpose Pray my Lord I desire that may be Examined and Mr. Smith may be called to give an Account how he came to give the Prisoner those Papers for here are abundance of Niceties proposed for him to move and there will be a strange sort of Proceedings at this rate if men go about to espouse the Cause of Traytors Colledge I am noe Traytor Mr. Attorney Mr. Att. Gen. You stand indicted of High-Treason Colledge That is by a Grand Jury made up that Morning as I am Informed Mr. Att. Gen. Here is a List of the Names of several men of the Country returned to be of the Jury and particular marks set upon them who are good men and who bad men and who moderate men Colledge Ought I not to have that Paper my Lord Mr. Att. Gen. No I hope not L. C. J. Whether they are Material or not Material If we should judge them not Material for his defence yet it will look like an hard point upon the Prisoner and to deliver them into an hand that they may be carried away or stifled in Case there were a Crime in the delivering of them that would not do well on the other side Therefore I would have these Papers put into some safe hands that what may be for the Prisoners use he may not want and yet they may not be taken away if there be occasion to use them upon another Account Mr. Att. Gen. But if it please your Lordship I desire you would enter into the Examination of this Matter for I have an Account from London by a special Messenger that there are several Persons that go up and down to procure Witnesses against the Kings Evidence making it a publick Cause and here my Lord another Paper which is a List of men as Witnesses picked up together against the King's Witnesses L. C. J. He must have that deliver him that presently Mr. Att. Gen. But my Lord others have gone about and framed Witnesses for him L. C. J. You must give him the List of his Witnesses for I see not what use you can make of it Mr. Serj. Jefferies This no man will oppose sure if any thing that is delivered to him be fit to be delivered the Person that delivers it must come and own it but before any Person delivers any Papers to the Prisoner for him to make use of against the Kings Evidence we desire to know what those Papers mean and who gave them L. C. J. Look you Brother we will have nothing of heat till the Tryal be over when that is over if there be any thing that requires our Examination it will be Proper for us to enter into the Consideration of it But in the mean while what hurt is there If the Papers be put into some trusty hands that the Prisoner may make the best use of them he can and yet they remain ready to be produced upon occasion if a man be speaking for his Life tho he speak that which is not material or nothing to the purpose that will be no harm to permit that Mr. Serj. Jefferies With Submission my Lord that is assigning him Counsel with a Witness Mr. Att. Gen. If people are permitted to go up and down and ask Counsel of Persons and bring it in Papers to the Prisoner 't is the same thing as if Counsel came to him Here is a busie Solicitor and he gets advice from Counsel and then he delivers it to the Prisoner 't is the first of the kind certainly that ever was allowed and if this be not to assign him Counsel I know not what is L. C. J. What think you of our perusing the Papers Mr. Att. Gen. With all my heart my Lord. Colledge If you take away all helps from me you had as good Condemn me without a Tryal Mr. Att. Gen. You ought not to have helps to Plead dilatories College Not to help me to my right in Law Mr. Att. Gen. We are to go upon the Fact now And my Lord I pray your Judgment about them when you have perused them Then the Judges looked upon that Paper that was called the Speech L.C.J. We have read enough of this to suppress it and to examine it how this came to his hands Mr. Just Jones Where is Aaron Smith Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord here is another that is worse then that charging the Justice of the Nation Pray call Mr. Aaron Smith and Mr. Henry Starkey Mr. Smith appeared Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Smith did you deliver these two Papers to the Prisoner Mr. Smith Doe's any body accuse me that I did Mr. Att. Gen. You are accused for it Mr. Smith I desire proof may be made against me Mr. Att. Gen. That will be done L. C. J. Look you we will not interrupt the Tryal with it Mr. Smith must be taken into safe Custody only to secure him till we can examine it not as charged with any Crime but only that he may be forth-Coming to be Examined Mr. Att. Gen. You do not make a direct Answer Mr. Smith in the Case it will be proved upon you Mr. Smith Mr Attorney I know not what Answer to make better then I have given our Law says no man is bound to accuse himself Mr. Att. Gen. But our Law says you shall be Examined Mr. Smith I come to give no Informations here Mr. Attorney If I did I should be then Examined Mr. Att. Gen. Here are Instructions given to the Prisoner they say you gave them Mr. Smith I desire to have it proved L. C. J. Mr Attorney you will take a Recognizance of Mr. Smith to be forth-Coming during this Sessions Mr. Smith I will not depart my Lord I assure you And I hope Mr. Attorney will take my word Mr. Att. Gen. Indeed I will not Mr. Smith because you have broken it with me already when I gave you Leave to go to the Prison I did not think you would have abused that Kindness to give him Papers L. C. J. Well take his Recognizance Mr. Smith 'T is high time to have a care when our Lives and Estates and all are beset here L. C. J. What do you mean by that Mr. Smith Mr. Smith I said it not meaning by it the Court for I declare I abhor that Expression to be so interpreted that I reflected upon the Court. L. C. J. Why do you use such loose Expressions then Mr. Smith Mr. Smith Because I have been threatned since I came to Town tho I have not spoke one Word in any publick Company since I came Mr. Just Jones It seems
you will reflect here in the Face of the Court and in the Face of the Country upon the Government upon the Justice of the Kingdom Mr. Smith No my Lord I have told you what I meant by it I neither reflected upon the Court nor upon the Government nor upon the Justice of the Kingdom L. C. J. You should have done well to have forborn such Expressions as those were Colledge Shall I not have the Use of the Papers my Lord Will you not please to deliver them back to me now you have perused them Mr. Just Jones One of them is a Speech and a most seditious libellous Speech to spit Venom upon the Government in the Face of the Country We cannot tell who made it but it seems to be beyond your Capacity And therefore we must enquire into it but we do not think fit to let you have the use of that Paper L. C. J. For that which contains the Names of the Witnesses that you have again For the other matters the Instructions in point of Law if they had been written in the first Person in your own Name that we might believe it was your Writing it would have been something but when it is written in the second Person you should do so and so by which it appears to be written by another Person it is an ill President to permit such things that were to give you Counsel in an indirect Way which the Law gives you not directly Colledge If I am ignorant what Questions to ask of the Witnesses shall not my Friends help me my Lord L. C. J. We will sift out the Truth as well as we can you need not fear it Colledge Some of those things I took out of the Books my self And if you are resolved to take away all my Helps I cannot help it I know not that Mr. Smith wrote one of those Papers Mr. Att. Gen. But Mr. Smith would have given four Guinneys it seems as a Bribe to the Goaler and he offered four more to let him have liberty to come to him Mr. Serj. Jefferies 'T is time indeed for Mr. Smith to have a Care Keeper It was Mr. Starkey that offered me the four Guinneys Mr. Att. Gen. Pray call Mr. Henry Starkey But he did not appear Then the Court took a Recognizance of 100 l. of Mr. Smith to attend the Court during the Session Colledge Pray my Lord let me have my Papers delivered to me I cannot make my Defence else L. C. J. We are your Counsel in matter of Fact and to give you your Papers were to assign you Counsel against Law they being not your own Papers but coming from a third hand Colledge Will you please to give me the Paper that has the Questions in it to ask the Witnesses L. C. J. There are no Papers with any particular Questions to any one Witness but only Instructions how to carry your self in this Case Colledge A great deal of it is my own my Lord. L. C. J. Mr. Attorney truly I think that that doe's not Contain matter of Scandal may be Transcribed and given to the Prisoner Colledge My Lord I desire I may have that that has in the Margent of it the Case of Lilburn and Stafford Mr. Just Jones You shall not have Instructions to Scandalize the Government all that is necessary for your defence you shall have L. C. J. If he had writ it himself I cannot well see how you could take it from him and truly as 't is I had rather let him have too much then too little Colledge My Lord I thought I might have had Counsel to have assisted me but if I may have Counsel neither before my Plea nor after I that am an Ignorant may be lost by it but can't help it L. C. J. If matter of Law arise you shall have Counsel it Colledge I know not but it might have admitted of an Argument that which if I had had my Papers I should have offered to you L. C. J. Mr. Colledge we shall not go any farther now I know not how many Witnesses will be produced either of one side or another but 't is too late to go on this Morning and because we attend here only upon this Occasion we shall go on with the Tryal at two a Clock in the Afternoon Colledge My Lord You will be pleased to order the Papers for me to Peruse in the mean time L. C. J. We have ordered that you shall have a Transcript of the Paper of Instructions leaving out that which is Scandalous Colledge I desire I may have a Copy of the whole Mr. Just Jones No we do not think fit to do that Colledge Pray let me know which you do except against L. C. J. Look you Mr. Attorney I think we may let him have a Copy of the whole Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord before you rise I desire you would please to take the Examination of Mr. Gregory about Mr. Starkey L. C. J. Swear him Which was done Mr. Att. Gen. What do you know concerning Mr. Starkey and what he did offer you Gregory When they came by your Lordships Permission to Mr. Colledge they brought some Papers which they delivered to him And afterwards Mr. Starkey took me aside and told me it was hard Usage that the Prisoner could not have his Counsel permitted to come to him Do him what Favour you can and I shall not be Ungrateful so he clapped four Guinneys in my hand but I immediately laid them down upon the Table and would not take them Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I desire you would please to send for Mr. Starkey L. C. J. Let him be sent for Cl. of Cr. You must go and take up Mr Starkey Messenger Must I keep him in Custody I don't know him Cl. of Cr. No you must order him from the Court to attend here Mr. Just Jones These Papers Colledge shall not be debarr'd of for his Defence nor you Mr. Attorney from prosecuting upon them L. C. J. No we we will put them into such Hands as shall take Care about that Colledge Very few my Lord have appeared to do me any Kindness some have been frightned and Imprisoned others are now in Trouble for it L. C. J. Well you shall have the use of your Papers Colledge May I have any Friends come to see me in the mean time L. C. J. They must not come to you in the Prison to give you advice but I 'le tell you since you move it if my Brothers think it convenient whilst the Court does withdraw any body of your Friends may come to you in the Presence of your Keeper Mr. Just Jones Certainly you cannot think you can give a Priviledg to any Friend of yours to commit any Demeanor to offer Bribes to any Person Colledge I know not of any such thing Mr. Just Jones We do not charge you with it but Mr. Starkey did Colledge I have been kept a strict close Prisoner and if my Friends are so
to speak it L. C. J. Be patient Mr. Colledge and let Mr. Attorney go on to open the Charge I will tell you and the Jury too that what he saies further then he makes good by Proof and Witnesses will serve for nothing Colledge 'T is hard the Counsel should plead against me and open things that he cannot prove L. C. J. I will do you all the Right Imaginable and therefore I do tell you again if they do not prove it all he saies is nothing Colledge But I beseech you my Lord since there hath been such extraordinary Means and Methods used to contrive my Death that the Witnesses may be examined apart and far from the Hearing one of another L. C. J. That we will take Care of by and by Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Colledge This shews your Temper you are very inordinate in your way of expressing your self Colledge Mr. Attorney I should not Interrupt you if I were not afraid this was spoken to possess the Jury Mr. Att. Gen. I hope to prove what I have said or every word of it shall pass for nothing Colledge 'T is impossible for all the Men on Earth to prove it Mr. Att. Gen. Gentlemen these were the Particulars I was opening to you in what manner he was armed and how accoutred he came hither We shall likewise shew you that he made it his Business to perswade others to undertake the Design and joyn with him and as if open War were already Declared he gave out a Sign which was a blew Ribbon a wrought Ribbon with Letters in it and this was the mark and Sign they were to know one another by This was given out by him frequently and that it may not seem an extraordinary thing Gentlemen tho indeed it was a wild attempt yet you will cease to wonder when you have heard of the Exploit of Venner who with a few men raised such a Commotion soon after the Kings coming in and the several Exploits that have of late in Scotland been carried on by a few discontented Persons So that men of the like Principles as we shall give you an Account of this Gentlemans Principles what they were may well be thought to ingage in such an Extraordinary Exploit And we shall prove what the incouragment was he was to have for he boasted of himself that he should be in a little time a Collonel Colledge What Sir Mr. Att. Gen. A Collonel a great preferment for a Joyner Colledge Yes it was so Mr. Att. Gen. We shall shew to you that this was not a sudden unpre-meditated thing for we shall prove that he had entertained the horridest Malice against the King that ever Subject entertained against his Soveraign For we shall give this Evidence and his Front will not oppose it that he had made it his common Discourse in Coffee-Houses and publick Houses and I believe I could bring you 40 and 40 Witnesses to it to defame the King and murder him in his Reputation and was one of the Complices with Fitz Harris who lately was Executed for that venemous Libel We shall prove that he justified it and maintained it to be as true as the Gospel We shall give Evidence that he carried on the same Design with that Arch-Traytor who was a Papist and I believe if this Gentleman were Examined throughly he would be found to be one of the same Stamp and acted by the same Principle for I think that no Protestant Subject would attempt such things as we shall prove to you I believe Gentlemen you have frequently heard as none of us but have that the King hath been traduced as a designer of Arbitrary Government and his Reputation blasted Maliciously and falsly as an introducer of Popery Whence comes all this generally but out of the Popish Quiver who make it their business to set the Kings good Subjects at variance amongst themselves and against their Prince by Styling the King a Papist as this Person hath done nay he hath been so impudent as to report that the King was in the Plot against his own Life We shall prove to you how here and at other places he hath frequently done this to go further we shall produce to you the Evidence that he drew the Kings Picture and exposed him in all the reproachful Characters imaginable and that the Picture might be the better understood he adds a Ballad to it And that he may not have the Confidence to say this is not true we shall produce to you a whole Bundle of these Papers among those which his Son made a Discovery of when they were sent to his Uncle to be hid and we shall prove him to be the Author of them and yet that this man should have the Confidence to say he is a good Subject and a good Protestant when by all ways imaginable he goes about to ruin the Government and defame the King And Gentlemen when we have given you this Account by Witnesses for I would have you believe me in nothing but according as I prove it you will not wonder then that he should say his Life is in danger for so it is indeed And if any man ever was Guilty of High-Treason sure he is and being Guilty of the greatest Treason he deserves the severest Punishment Colledge Pray Gentlemen of the Jury take Mr. Attorney General at his word and remember Sir you desire not to be believed your self but what you prove Mr. Serj. Holloway May it please your Lordship and Gentlemen Pursuant to what Mr. Attorney hath opened we will call our Witnesses and we will begin with Mr. Dugdale who was a Witness against my Lord Stafford at his Tryal in Parliament whose Credit Mr. Colledge did attest at that Tryal asserting him to be an honest good man and I believe his Evidence will go in a great measure through all that Mr. Attorney hath opened and when we have done with him we hope to second him with other Witnesses of as good Credit and that will say as much to the Purpose Then Mr. Dugdale was Sworn Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Dugdale look upon the prisoner and tell the Court whether you know him Mr. Dugdale Yes I do know him Sir Mr. Att. Gen. Will you give us an Account of your knowledge of him Colledge My Lord I humbly desire they may be Examined apart and not in the hearing one of another Mr. Att. Gen. That with Submission ought not to be in the Kings Case tho we think there are none of them that will speak any more then the Truth Colledge Here are several of them my Lord they are all of a Gang. Mr. Serj. Jefferies Not of your Gang Mr. Colledge Colledge I Pray they may go out my Lord which was ordered accordingly Mr. Dugdale If your Lordships please whether or no I may deliver in these Papers Mr. Att. Gen. By and by time enough when we ask for them speak your own knowledge Mr. Dugdale My Lord I have been I think acquainted with Mr.
To be assisting in any thing Mr. Dugdale He always desired me to be true of that side he hoped I was and to get good Arms for my self Mr. Serj. Holloway Did he in Oxford desire this of you Mr. Dugdale No he did not Mr. Sol. Gen. For what purpose did he desire you to arm your self Mr. Dugdale He said the King had a design on the People to introduce Popery and Arbitrary Government and he expected every day when they would begin and the sooner the better he would be provided for them Mr. Jones Was that in Oxford Mr. Dugdale He spoke it in Oxford and in the City too Mr. Jones Did he tell you of any that were listed Mr. Dugdale He spoke of Capt. Brown and Capt. Clinton and Don Lewes and abundance more he said he had Mr. Jones Did he tell you he had them here Mr. Dugdale Yes about forty of them were there he said Mr. Serj. Holloway Did he tell you of any that were listed in order to the coming down of the Parliament at Oxford Mr. Dugdale Not listed but were intended to come down and at Oxford he told me they were come down Mr. Just Jones Were you in their company in Oxford here Mr. Dugdale Yes I was Mr. Just Jones In the company of whom name them Mr. Dugdal Of Capt. Brown Don Lewes and several others of that Gang I know not their Names but I know their Faces Mr. Sol. Gen. Did he take notice to you that they were come down Mr. Dugdale Yes Mr. Sol. Gen. To what purpose Mr. Dugdale He expected there would be a rising in Oxford and to this purpose Mr. Colledge was one that debated it at Richard's Coffee House and it was to be carried from thence to the King's-Head Club Whether it were not best to leave a Parliament Man in every County Mr. Attor Gen. Where was this Mr. Dugdale This was at Richard's Coffee House in London against they met here Mr. Attor Gen. We could give you an account of a volume of these things abundance of scandalous Pamphlets both Songs Libels and Ballads that were made by this Gentleman and all seized in his custody Mr. Jones But he sung this Libel Mr. Attor Gen. All these Gentlemen shewing a great bundle were to be dispersed over England Mr. Serj. Jefferies It was it seems expounded and sung by the Prisoner at the Bar he gave you the Ballad here at Oxford you say Mr. Dugdale Mr. Dugdale No I heard him sing it here Mr. Jones Pray Mr. Dugdale what was the use was to be made of this Ballad Mr. Attor Gen. Come go to the next we call this Evidence to shew you the malice of the Man Colledge Pray my Lord let me ask some Questions of Mr. Dugdale Mr. Serj. Jefferies Ay now let the Prisoner ask his Questions to do him right before we go to another Witness Mr. Dugdale My Lord I have a word or two more about a Libel in Manuscript that very day the Sheriffs were to be chosen it was to be printed and he told me the Printer durst not print it it was so dangerous Mr. Serj. Jefferies What was it can you remember any part of it Mr. Dugdale No but it was the worst I ever heard in my life against the King and Government L. Ch. J. Now ask him what Questions you will Colledge Pray when was the first time you gave this Evidence Mr. Dugdale Truly Mr. Colledge I don't keep an account of Time I cannot give an account of Time Mr Attor Gen. As near as you can tell him Mr. Dugdale I cannot tell whether it might be in June I think it was Colledge How long before I was taken Mr. Dugdale It might be about the time you were taken Colledge Pray who did you give it before Mr. Dugdale I gave to Sir Lionel Jenkins Colledge Where did you swear these particulars were done then Mr. Dugdale What was done in the City I swore to be done there Colledge What City Mr. Dugdale London the same words were said in the City of London and over-again here I have repeated for the most part only the words you said here but more was in the City than here Colledge Did you swear then that the words you swear now were spoken at London Mr. Dugdale It may be we might not name Oxford then Mr. Serj. Jefferies He says well it might not be named then Colledge Then you did give in your Information that I spoke these words at Oxford Mr. Dugdale I was not examined about what was done at Oxford but I believe I have heard you speak the same words to me at my Lord Lovelace's but I do not know what County that is in Colledge I ask you positively Whether you did not swear that what you now say was spoken at Oxford was spoken at London Mr. Dugdale I did not name Oxford then Colledge But did not you say that was done at London that now you say was done here Mr. Dugdale Truly you said them both at London and here Colledge Pray Mr. Dugdale what had you to give this your Information Mr. Dugdale Truly I can't say I have received the worth of a Groat Colledge Nor was ever promised any thing Mr. Dugdale No I never received any thing nor ever was promised but only what the King gave me for going down into the Country for my Charges Mr. Attor Gen. Was that the same Allowance you had when you were Witness for the Popish Plot Mr. Dugdale Yes Mr. Serj. Jefferies Have you any other Allowance than what you had before when you gave Evidence at my Lord Stafford's Tryal Mr. Dugdale No nor have got all that yet neither Colledge But pray observe my Question Mr. Dugdale and answer it Did you not swear at London that I spoke these words there which now you say I spoke here L. Ch. J. Pray observe he says he did not then name Oxford but in the giving of his Evidence now he tells you a series of what passed between London and Oxford and I must tell you further if a Treason be committed and the Evidence prove it to be in two Counties the King may chuse which County he will prosecute and bring his Indictment in and give in Evidence the Facts in both Counties But you shall have your Objection to it afterwards and we will take it into consideration I tell you this that it may not seem to you that the Witnesses speak impertinently of what was done at London but if nothing was done or said at Oxford then it will be taken into consideration you shall have it saved afterwards I only hint it now that you may not think it impertinent Colledge I beseech your Lordship give me leave to speake one word When he made his Affidavit before Sir Lionel Jenkins there about seizing the King about the Party I had and the Arms I had provided ought not he at the same time to have said where I said those words to him but he did swear
to several People to buy Arms and Ammunition And I asked him to what purpose and he said it was to bring the King to submission to his People adding thereto That he wondred Old Rowley did not consider how easily his Fathers Head came to the Block which he doubted not would be the end of Rowley at the last After this Discourse the Alderman came in we dined and every one went his own way about his own Business Mr. Colledge then told me if I would go with him to his own House I should see how he was prepared with Arms and Provision Soon after I met with him and he desired me to go along and dine with him and I did so and there he did shew me his Pistols his Blunderbuss his great Sword and he shewed me his Armour Back and Breast and he shewed me his Head-piece which if I am not mistaken was covered over with Chamlet it was a very fine thing and said he These are the things which will destroy the pittiful Guards of Rowley that are kept up contrary to Law and Justice to set up Arbitrary Power and Popery Colledge What did I say Sir about my Armour Mr. Smith Thus you said It was to destroy Rowley's Guards those were your words that were kept up contrary to Law and Justice to set up Arbitrary Power and Popery After I had dined with him I parted with him A little before the Parliament was to meet at Oxford I met him again and we were discoursing of several things what preparations the City were making how they were provided with Powder and Bullets and for his part he would go down to Oxford for he expected a little sport there upon the Divisions that were like to be between the King and Parliament Then said I to him Why what is the matter there Why said he we expect that the King will seize upon some of the Members and we are as ready as he And says he for my part I will be there and be one that shall seize Him if he secure any of the Members and I believe he did go down says he you know how the City is provided I told him No not so well as he but he told me all was very well After he came up again I met him another time and he told me He went down in expectation of some sport but Old Rowley was afraid like his Grand-father Jamy and so ran away like to beshit himself Mr. Serj. Jefferies Did he say If he had not ran away he would have seized him Mr. Smith He said nothing of that but before he said He would be one of them should seize him if he seized any of the Members After this he told me that Fitz Gerald and he had had a quarrel at the Parliament-Door of the House of Lords at Oxford that Fitz-Gerald had called him Rogue and said he Fitz-Gerald made my Nose bleed but before long I hope to see a great deal more Blood shed for the Cause After this again when there was a discourse of disarming the City that my Lord Feversham was to come to do it he told me he was well provided and if Feversham or any man nay Rowley himself should attempt any such thing he would be the death of him before any man should seize upon his Arms. Mr. Serj. Jeff. Did he discourse any thing to you about Arms to provide your self Mr. Smith Yes he did I had an Armour from him Mr. Serj. Jefferies What did he say to you about it Mr. Smith He did desire me to get me Arms for I did not know how soon I might make use of them I had an Armour from him upon trial he said it cost him 30 or 40 s. I had it upon trial but it was too big for me so I gave it him back and bought a new one Mr. Attor Gen. Did he tell you to what purpose you should Arm your self Mr. Smith No he did not name any purpose but he told me I did not know how soon I might make use of it Mr. Attor Gen. What did he say to you about any one's seizing the King Mr. Smith He told me the Parliament were agreed to secure the King and that in order to it all Parliament-men came very well Armed and accompanied with Arms and Men and he told me of a great Man that had notice from all the Gentlemen of England how well they came armed Mr. Jones What did he say of himself Mr. Smith He would be one that should secure the King if he seized any of the Members Mr. Jones When he had been there what did he say Mr. Smith If they had had any work he was ready provided for them Mr. Attor Gen. But pray tell us again what he said of the King 's running away Mr. Smith He said Rowley was afraid like his Grand-father Jamy and ran away ready to beshit himself L. Ch. J. If you have done with him Mr. Attorney let the Prisoner ask him what Questions he will Colledge Mr. Smith Where was this Discourse I had with you Mr. Smith Which do you mean the former part or the latter Colledge The first discourse you talk of what I told you going to Mr. Wilcox's to dinner and when it was Mr. Smith You know best when it was I can't exactly remember the time but you know 't is true Colledge Where was it Mr. Smith As we went along thither we had the first part of it and when we came thither you and I talked till Alderman Wilcox came in and you and I were alone together and several Persons that were there were drawn into Cabals two by two Colledge Where Mr. Smith In the Room where we dined and you know there was a little Room by where some were drinking a Glass of Wine Colledge You say by two and two the Company were drawn into Cabals Mr. Smith I tell you most of them were in Cabals two and two together only those 2 Gentlemen that belonged to the Alderman went up down and gave Wine Colledge What Religion are you of Mr. Smith Is it for this Man to ask me my Lord such a Question L. Ch. J. Yes answer him Mr. Smith I am a Protestant Colledge You were a Priest Mr. Smith Yes what then and I am in Orders now Colledge That was from the Church of Rome Mr. Smith Yes and that is a good Ordination I came in voluntarily to discover the Popish Plot and was no Pentioner nor received any Sallary from the King I have spent several Pounds several scores of Pounds but received no Recompence And I was the Darling at one time all over the City when I did adhere to what they would have me to do Mr. Serj. Jefferies Did not you swear against my Lord Stafford Mr. Attor Gen. Were not you a Witness Mr. Smith at my Lord Stafford's Tryal Mr. Smith In that Case I did give a general account of the Design of the Papists they did not then question my
ready to assist Mr. Jones And how much of that Ribband had he pray Mr. Turbervile A very great quantity 40 or 50 Yards Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray Mr. Turbervile will you give your Evidence over again and let Mr. Colledge attend to it Mr. Turbervile When the Parliament sat at Oxon about the middle of the Week I cannot be positive to a day I believe it was either Wednesday or Thursday I Dined with Mr. Colledge Capt. Browne and Don Lewes who was formerly Clerk of Derby House Don Lewes after Dinner went out and Capt. Browne laid him down on the Bed and Mr. Colledge and I fell a talking of the Times and I told him I thought this Parliament would be no Long-Lived Parliament Upon which Colledge told me the King and all his Family were Papists and there was no good to be expected from him Then I replyed The King would perhaps Surprize the Parliament or use some Stratagem to bring them to his Terms Said Mr. Colledge again I would he would begin but if he do not we will secure him till he comes to those Terms we would have from him for here are several Brave Fellows and many more are coming down that will joyn with it Mr. Att. Gen. Did he name any one Mr. Turbervile No indeed he did not he himself had a Case of Pistols a Sword and I believe he might have his Armor on Colledge Did I discourse who were to joyn with me Mr. Turbervile No Mr. Colledge you did not name any body to me but Capt. Browne was with you Mr. Att. Gen. Were you Examined in my Lord Stafford's Tryal Mr. Turbervile Yes I was Mr. Att. Gen. Was this Gentleman sworn to your Reputation there Mr. Turbervile No not to mine Colledge Pray how come we to talk of such things What occasion was there that I should talk Treason of the King to you Was there any body besides us two there Mr. Turbervile No Capt. Browne was gone to sleep and Lewes was gone out Mr. Att. Gen. It was not at Dinner that you talked so Mr. Colledge he sayes Colledge Had they been at Dinner with us there Mr. Turbervile Yes and we had a Legg of boyled Mutton to Dinner Colledge Did you stay after Dinner Mr. Turbervile Yes and I lay with you afterwards upon the Bed Colledge I thought you had said Capt. Browne went to sleep there Mr. Turbervile Yes but he was gone too when we laid down together Colledge God forgive you I can say no more I never spoke one word of any such discourse in my Life Mr. Att. Gen. Will you ask him any more Questions Colledge Mr. Turbervile when did you give in this Information against me Mr. Turbervile I gave it to the Grand Jury Colledge Not before Mr. Turbervile Yes I did Colledge When was it Mr. Turbervile Truly I can't well tell I believe it was a day or two before I came to Oxon. Colledge Why did you make it then and not before Mr. Turbervile I 'le tell you the occasion Mr. Dugdale told me the Grand Jury of London would not find the Bill I did admire at it extreamly for I thought every one that conversed with him might be an Evidence against him he was always so very lavish against the King and the Government So then Colonel Warcup came to me and took my Depositions and then I came for Oxford Colledge What was the reason you did not discover this Treason before Mr. Turbervile There was no reason for it it was not necessary Colledge You were not agreed then Mr. Turbervile There was no agreement in the Case there needs nothing of that I think but I am not obliged to give you an account of it Colledge God forgive you Mr. Turbervile Mr. Turbervile And you too Mr. Colledge Mr. Att. Gen. Then call Sir William Jennings Mr. Serjeant Jefferies Mr. Attorney if you please till he comes I will acquaint my Lord here is a Gentleman that hath not yet been taken notice of one Mr. Masters that is pretty well known to Mr. Colledge now he is a man he must acknowledge of an undoubted Reputation and I desire he may give your Lordship and the Jury an accompt what he knowes of the Prisoner because he is so curious for English-men we have brought him an English-man of a very good Repute Colledge My Lord I am charged with Treason in this Indictment here are a great many things made Use of that serve only to amuse the Jury I can conjecture nothing else they are brought for I desire to know whether the Pictures produced are part of the Treason L. Ch. Just. Stay till the Evidence is given and we will hear what you can say at large when you come to summe up your Defence Mr. Serjeant Jefferies Pray my Lord will you be pleased to hear this Gentleman He will tell you what discourse he hath had with the Prisoner at the Barr. Then Mr. Masters was sworn Mr. Masters Mr. Colledge and I have been acquainted for a great many Years and we have often discoursed I have told him of his being so violent as he hath been several times But a little before the Parliament at Oxon. about Christmas last after the Parliament at Westminster at Mr. Charlton's Shop the Woollen Draper in Paul's Church-Yard we were discoursing together about the Government and he was justifying of the late long Parliaments Actions in 40 and he said That Parliament was as good a Parliament as ever was chosen in the Nation Said I I wonder how you have the Impudence to justify their Proceedings that raised the Rebelion against the King and cut off his head Said he They did nothing but what they had just Cause for and the Parliament that sate last at Westminster was of their Opinion and so you would have seen it Mr. Serj. Jeff. What did he say of the Parliament since Mr. Masters He said the Parliament that sate last at Westminster was of the same Opinion that that Parliament was Mr. Serj. Jeff. Pray afterwards what discourse had you about his Colonel-ship Mr. Masters We were talking at Guild-Hall that day the Common-Council was the 13 th of May as near as I remember so I came to him How now Colâ—nel Colledge said I what do you make this bustle for You mistook me and said Cozen how long have you and I been Cozens Nay prithee said I 't is not yet come to that to own Kindred between us I only called you Colonel in jest Marry mock not said he I may be one in a little time Mr. Serj. Jeff. Have you any thing to ask Mr. Masters you know he is your old acquaintance you know him well Then Sir William Jennings was sworn Mr. Jones What is it that you know concerning Mr. Colledge at Oxford Sir Sir William Jennings My Lord The first time that I heard any thing of Mr. Colledge was there was some Company looking upon a Picture for I knew him not nor never had any word of discourse with
him in my life any more then seeing him in a publick Coffee-house But there was a Picture looking on by 7 or 8 or 10 People I believe more or less and I coming and crowding in my head amongst the rest looked upon this Picture After the Crowd was over Mr. Colledge takes a Picture out of his Pocket and said he I will give you one of them if you will So he gives me a Picture which Picture if I could see I could tell what it was it was written Mac a Top and there were several Figures in it Then the Picture was shewed him This is one of the same that I had of him and I had not had it long in my Custody but meeting with Justice Warcupp I shewed it him who bid me give it him and so I did The next thing that I did see Mr. Colledge do was in the Coffee-house not the same day but another time I saw him bring in a parcel of blew Ribband which was wrought and these words eight times wrought in it twice wrought in every Quarter of a Yard No Popery No Slavery I saw him sell to a Member of Parliament as I took him to be a yard of that Ribband for 2 s. and truly I was thinking he would ask me to buy some too and I saw that Gentleman I took him to be a Parliament man take this Ribband and tye it upon his Sword As to the other thing I have to say of Mr. Colledge That very day the Parliament was Dissolved he had been in a Quarrel as he told me with Mr. Fitz Girald and I was standing in the Schoole-house Yard and he comes directly to me without my speaking to him or any thing but he comes and tells me Mr. Fitz Girald had spit in his face and said he I spit in his face again so we went to Loggerheads together I think that was the word or fifty Cuffs So said I Mr. Colledge your Nose bleeds he takes his handkerchief out of his Pocket and wipes his Nose and said I have lost the first blood in the Cause but it will not be long before more be lost L. C. Just Where was this Sir William Jennings In the Schoole-house Yard at Oxon. I never discoursed with him afterwards till I met him at London in Fleet-Street one Sunday in the Afternoon and I remember Captain Crescett was along with me And when he came up to me How now said I honest Joyner Sayes he You call me honest Joyner some call me Rogue and Rascal and I have been beating some of them So that I believe they will be aware of it So I told Captain Crescett I never met this man but he was always in a Quarrel Colledge Was it on a Sunday that I told you I had been beating of some body Sir William Jennings You told me so Captain Crescett was by Colledge I do remember I met you but I did not tell you I had been then beating any one But pray Sir William when I met you after the Parliament was Dissolved and Fitz Girald and I had quarrel'd did I say That I had lost the first blood in the Cause but it would not be long e're more were lost Sir William you are a Gentleman as for the other men they don't care what they say nor do I so much regard them but you value your Word and Honour These were my words and pray will you recollect your self before you be positive in the thing whether I did not say I have lost the first blood for the Parliament for it was upon my vindicating of the Commons and Doctor Oates whom Fitz Girald had abused and upon that the Quarrel began so I said when you met me and told me my Nose bled I have lost the first blood for the Parliament I wish it may be the last Sir William Jennings Mr. Colledge If you please I will answer you as to that I do assure you t is the first time that ever I came upon this occasion in my days and I have declared it before and do declare it now I would rather have served the King in 3 Ingagements then come in against you or any man upon such an Occasion But I declare to you upon the whole memory of the truth the words were as I spoke them at first and no Parliament named or mentioned And my Lord moreover I will tell you When I did tell this story because Mr. Crescett that is here is able to tell you whether I did not relate the words within half an hour or a little time after Now I never had a prejudice against you in my days nor other Concern but having told Mr. Justice Warcupp this Story I am brought hither to testifie it Colledge Sir William I am very sorry you did not better observe and remember my words then Sir William Jennings I must needs say I could not imagine what the words meant when they were spoken nor do I understand them to this day but soon after they were spoken I related them to Justice Warcupp he being a Justice of Peace Mr. Serj. Holloway Gentlemen we shall rest here and conclude our Evidence for the King at present to hear what the Prisoner says to it only with my Lords leave I shall explain the words to you that are in the Indictment and tell you what is meant by Compassing and Imagining the Death of the King The Seizing the Person of the King is in Law a Compassing and Intending his Death and so it hath been adjudged in several Cases as in 1 Jacobi my Lord Cobham and my Lord Greys Case and several other Cases and so you may fully apprehend what the Charge is and may understand the words in the Indictment That if you are not satisfied with the general words of Compassing the King's Death you may know that the Seizing his Person extends to it Mr. Serj. Jefferies My Lord we have done with our Evidence now let him go on with his L. Chief Justice Now Mr. Colledge you may say what you will for your defence and call your Witnesses that you have to produce Colledge My Lord I have heard this Evidence that is against me and I would desire your Lordship to resolve me some Questions upon it I think the Indictment is for Treasonable Practices for a Conspiracy now I desire your Lordship will be pleased that I may know from you and the Court whether in all this Evidence given in proof against me a Conspiracy is proved or if any thing appears besides what they say I said L. Chief Justice For a Conspiracy in you If the Witnesses speak Truth there is a plain proof and of the degrees of it First of all By your publishing Libels and Pictures to make the King Odious and Contemptible in the Eyes of the People and that you should be the Author of some of those Pictures and they were found in your Custody Colledge I conceive that is not proved L. Chief Justice If the
Witnesses say true it is proved Colledge They do not produce that they do but say it L. Chief Justice Mr. Dugdale Swears That at Oxford here you shew'd him the Picture you sung the Song here and expounded it at my Lord Lovelace's and a great many of them are found in your Custody Then that you prepared Armes that you shew'd Smith the Arms in your House and having those Arms you said You would go to Oxford and if there should be a disturbance there you would secure the King And you did come to Oxford where you hear what is said for I Observe Stephen Dugdale and Edward Turbervile speak of what was done at Oxford John Smith and Bryan Haynes speak of what you said at London before you went to Oxford and after you came from Oxford Now I say If these Witnesses speak true 't is a strong Evidence against you both upon the Statute of the 25 Edw. the 3 d. and that of this King too For my Brother Holloway told you true That whereas the Imagining the Death of the King is High Treason by the 25 of Edw. the 3 d. so a Seizing of the King and an endeavor to do that is a constructive Intention of the Death of the King for Kings are never Prisoners but in order to their Death And therefore it hath been held in all times that by the Statute of Edw. 3 d. that was Treason but then the Statute of this King in the 13 Year of his Reign is more strong for there it says If any man shall by any words or malitious speaking shew the Imagination of his Heart that he hath any such Intention that is Treason too Colledge My Lord the Foundation of this Indictment is said to be laid here in Oxford as I suppose pray my Lord here is only Mr. Dugdale and Turbervile that Swear against me for what I should say in Oxon all the rest speak to things said and done at London Now my Lord I desire to know whether they have proved any Treasonable Practices Conspiracy or Design in me against the Government I would feign know that whether there be matter here to ground an Indictment upon for the one says in one place the other in the other which may be distinct matters and none of them Swear Facts against me but only Words Mr. Justice Jones Yes providing Arms for your self and offering others Arms. Colledge That I shall make this Answer to I had only a Case of Pistols and a Sword which every Footman and Horseman had that came from London I think But further my Lord I would ask your Lordship whether there ought not to be two Witnesses distinct to Swear words at one and the same time Mr. Justice Jones No No the Resolution of the Judges in my Lord Stafford's Case is contrary L. Chief Justice Look you It hath been often Resolved That if there be one Witness that proves one Fact which is an Evidence of Treason and another proves another Fact that is an Evidence of the same Treason tho' they be but single Witnesses to several Facts yet they are two Witnesses to an Indictment of Treason that hath been often publickly Resolved particularly in the Case of my Lord Stafford mentioned by my Brother And I 'le tell you my Opinion further If there be one Witness that proves here what you said at Oxford and another that proves what was said in London if they be in order to the same Treason it is sufficient for if you do Conspire to commit such a Treason in London and you come with such an Imagination in your Heart to Oxford to compleat this Treason tho' your design was not first formed there I think 't is enough to maintain an Indictment of Treason and they are two good Witnesses tho' but one speak to what was done at Oxford but I must tell you in your Case there are two full Witnesses to that which was done at Oxford besides Sir William Jennings Colledge That which Sir William Jennings speaks of I told you before what it was I said It was the first Blood that was shed for the Parliament Mr. Just Jones The Parliament was Dissolved before that which Sir William Jennings speaks of therefore you could not say it was to defend the Parliament Colledge Mr. Dugdale did say that I spake such and such words in the Barber's Shop in the Angel Inne there I was indeed at the time that he does speak of and the Barber was by I do think indeed it were convenient to have him here but I knew not where he would charge me or what it was he would charge me with because I never said any thing in my Life that was like Treason Lord Ch. Just Mr. Colledge call any Witnesses you will Colledge But my Lord pray let me ask you one Question more You take these words distinct from any matter of fact don't you L. Ch. Just. No complicated with the Fact which was the Overt-Act the coming to Oxon. with Pistols to make one if there had been any disturbance and to Seize the King Colledge Then my Lord I would ask you Whether any Act of Treason done at London shall be given in Evidence to prove the Treason for which I am now Indicted and which was given in Evidence before the Grand Jury upon which the Tryal was there grounded Lord Ch. Just. Any Act of Treason that is of the same kind And I 'le tell you That was Resolved in Sir Vane's Case those that gave you that Paper understand it But I speak now to your Capacity and to satisfie your Question He was Indicted for Levying Warr against the King he Conspired in Westminster the War was Levyed in another County the Conspiracy upon the Tryal was proved in the County of Middlesex and the Warr in another place and yet it was held sufficient to maintain the Indictment in the County of Middlesex Colledge There was a Warr really Levyed but God be thanked here is only bare words Mr. Just Jones Yes Actions too Colledge What Actions my Lord Mr. Just Jones Arming your self and coming to Oxford Lord Ch. Just Well I have told you my Opinion My Brothers will speak theirs if they think otherwise Mr. Just Jones That is not your Case neither tho I am of the same Opinion with my Lord for here are two Witnesses have proved plain matter of Fact at Oxford the providing Arms your self and encouraging others to take Arms Colledge They name no Persons Mr. Just Jones You will have my Opinion and yet you will give me no leave to speak I had patience to hear you You are told there are two Witnesses Turbervile and Dugdale that prove your providing and having of Arms at Oxon. and perswading others to take Arms particularly Turbervile He told you he had no Arms or but a Case of Pistols and he had no Horse but you told him you would provide him an Horse And then there are two other Witnesses Smith and Bryan Haynes
they do not tell you of any thing done at Oxford but they tell you what you said in their hearing of what you had done in Oxon and so I think if the Witnesses are to be believed there is a very full proof against you Mr. Just Raymond I am of the same Opinion truely and I cannot find but that there is proof enough by two Witnesses Turbervile and Dugdale of what was done at Oxford They swear matter of Fact not words only but actions also Colledge No fact but that I had Pistols and a Sword and that I should tell Mr. Turbervile I would provide him an Horse which is still but words Mr. Just Jones But you shall hear anon for the full Conviction of you and all others the Statute of the 13 th of this King read to you and you shall there see that such words are made Treason Colledge But I beseech your Lordship to tell me whether there must not be two Witnesses to the same words at the same time Mr. Just Jones No it was the resolution of all the Judges in the Case of my Lord Stafford in the presence of the Parliament and the Parliament proceeded upon it Mr. Serj. Jefferies In the same Tryal where Mr. Colledge was a Witness Mr. Att. General All the whole House of Commons prayed Judgment upon my Lord Stafford pursuant to that resolution L. C. Just Come will you call any Witnesses Colledge My Lord I do not question but to prove this one of the Hellishest Conspiracy that ever was upon the face of the Earth and these the most notorious wicked men an absolute design to destroy all the Protestants of England that have had the Courage to oppose the Popish Plot. In which no man of my condition hath done more then I have done I was bred a Protestant and continued so hitherto and by the grace of God I will dye so If that they had known of these words that I should speak and such a Design that I should have before the Parliament sat at Oxon and be with me in Oxon when the Parliament sat if they had been good Subjects they ought to have had me apprehended Turbervile came several times indeed and dined with me I did not bid him go out of Doors nor invited him thither he was a man I had no disrespect for Nay he was a man I valued thinking he had done the Nation service against the Papists that this man should hear me speak such words against his Majesty who was then in this Town and know of such a dangerous Design to attempt the seizing his Person or that I should Discover a great Party that were ready to do it I think there is scarce any man of reason but will say if this were really done and spoken by me neither of them would or ought to have concealed it but discover it none of them has ever charged me with any such thing they have been in my Company since I never had any Correspondence with any of them but Dugdale then pray consider how improbable it is that I should talk of such things to Papists Priests and Irish-men who have broke their faith with their own Party that faith which they gave under the penalty of Damnation Men that have been concerned in Plots and Treasons to murder and cut the Throats of Protestants that I should be such a Madman to trust these People when I could receive no manner of Obligation from them nor could give any Trust to them they having before broke their Faith especially considering I could lay no such Oaths and Obligations upon them who was a Protestant then 't is the greatest Non-sense to believe that I would say these things before Persons whom I could never hope would conceal my Treasons having discovered their own If they speak Truth concerning the general Popish Plot that could be no Obligation upon me to trust them with another and they cannot say that they ever obliged me in any one respect My Lord I thank God I have had some Acquaintance in the World and have been concerned with some persons of Honour Noblemen and Parliament men that I know are as good Subjects as any his Majesty has these never found me a Fool nor a Rascal so great a Knave as to have any such Thoughts in my Heart nor so great a mad-man or so foolish as to go to discover them to Papists Priests and Irish-men to men of their Condition that were ready to starve for Bread As for Haynes and Smith that run so fast through all their Evidence the first time that ever I set my Eyes on Haynes was in the Coffee-house that he speaks of Macnamarra comes in and desires me to go out with him and I should hear the greatest Discovery of a piece of Villany against my Lord Shaftsbury's Life that ever I heard in my Life This Captain Brown who is now dead a man that I had not known but a Month before for I think it was in March last when this was could testifie for me for I came to him Captain said I here is a Discovery offered to be made to me of a Design to take away my Lord Shaftsbury's Life Macnamarra asks me to go to the Hercules Pillars I went along with him and took Captain Brown with us Afterwards he fell sick in April and is now dead so I lossed a main Evidence in the Case He was the only man that was by at the time God knows my Heart I speak nothing but the Truth I took him with me Haynes began to discover to us that Fitz-Girald had employed him to fetch over Macnamarra and if he would come in and Swear against my Lord of Shaftesbury which was his Design it would not be long e're his Head were taken off and he said He had given in a Paper of High Treason agaist my Lord of Shaftesbury I asked what it was he told me That my Lord should tell Fitz Girald that he had a Design to bring this Kingdom to a Common Wealth and to rout out the Family of the Stuarts This he said Fitz Girald had given in in a Paper under his own hand and I think he said He had Sworn it and sent Haynes to fetch Macnamarra to Swear against my Lord the same things too I writ down all the heads of the discourse which Captain Brown heard as well as I after he had said it he desired us to conceal it Sir said I You are a stranger to me and these are great and strange things that you do tell us Macnamarra and Brown and Ivy and others were there which if they were honest men they would come and Testifie I thought them honest men and that they had none of those wicked Designs in their Hearts that now I find they have So says Haynes I do not know this man meaning me Macnamarra told him I was an honest man he might lay his Life in my hands After he had spoken all this he desired us
to conceal it Said he I will not only discover this but a great deal more of their Rogeries that I know very well Said I to him again I will not conceal it nor do you no wrong for if this be true my Lord of Shaftsbury shall know it to night for where there is a design to take away a Peer of the Realm I will not conceal it but if it be false and you have said more then comes to your share Recant it again and we will take no notice of it only say you are a Knave for speaking of it he Swore Dam him it was all true that and a great deal more which he said he knew about Seizing and Destroying the Parliament at Oxon about an Army in the North that was to be Raised about the time of the Sitting of the Parliament at Oxon of a French Army that was to Land in Ireland at the same time that the Duke of York was to be at the Head of them and the intention was to destroy all the Protestants Upon this I was Resolved if I lived to come along with the Parliament and if there was any such Design I was Resolved to Live and Die with them but I had no more then Common Arms a Sword and a Case of Pistols my Cap was a Velvet Cap and nothing else My Lord I had the Honor to be sent for when the Parliament Sat last at Westminster the Sessions in October it was an Honourable occasion and I thank those worthy Gentlemen that sent me for the Honor of it there I begun to be popular as to my Name for from that time they began to call me the Protestant Joyner because the Parliament had intrusted me My Lord Crey was pleased to send his Footman for me to the Crown Tavern behind the Exchange where there were several worthy Lords Peers of the Realm and One Hundred of the Commons that had Dined there that Day it was the Day before they Sat after they had Dined I came to them and the Duke of Monmouth told me They had heard a good Report of me that I was an honest man that understood Building and they did Confide in me to search under the Parliament House they did not really know of any Design but they would not be secure there might be some Tricks play'd them by the Papists tho' we are not afraid of them said the Duke yet we think fit to employ you to search under the Houses and thereabouts whether you can find any such Practices So accordingly my Lord I did go my Lord Lovelace was one of the Honourable Lords and my Lord Herbert that went with me and some of the Gentlemen of the House of Commons and those worthy Protestant Lords were pleased to thank me for my Service and did believe I was Active and Zealous to find out and discover the bottome of the Popish Plot so far as it came legally in my way to do it My Lord upon this occasion there was a great kindness from them to me and I had upon all occasions Testimonies of it and this very man who now Swears Treasons against me which God Almighty knows is all false did Swear in his Affidavit before Sir George Treby the Recorder of London I did never see the Affidavit indeed I was over night at Sir Treby's but he was not then at leisure but he drew it up next day and Swore it that there was a Design to destroy the Parliament at Oxon and there was not only his Oath for it but it was the general belief that some Evil was intended them All men had cause to fear and to suspect the Papists did bear them no great good Will and making use of their own Observations they were generally Armed with a Pistol or a Sword for themselves in case they should be Attack'd by the Papists In order to this I did come down with my Lord Howard my Lord of Clare my Lord of Huntington and my Lord Pagett those four worthy Protestant Lords and it was two days after the Parliament was sat that we came and I went out of Town again with my Lord Lovelace Sir Thomas Player and Sir Robert Clayton and I am sure they were all in so great a Fear that London should be surprized and seized on by the Papists but there was no mortal man that ever heard of the Kings being seised or thought of it till these men come and tell me that I had such a Design and came hither with that purpose but my Lord I declare as God is my Judge I would not have it thought I speak it to save my Life were it as certainly a Truth as 't is most wickedly a Falshood that I had had a design to seize the King I know not of one man upon the Face of the Earth that was to stand by me Parliament man or other persons whatsoever And how it is possible for me to attempt that being a single Person with only a Sword and a Case of Pistols let any man judge And I do declare I know of no Conspiracy nor Design against the King or Government I never spoke one of the Treasonable Words in my Life that is laid against me nor had ever any Thoughts of any such thing God that is my Eternal Judge knows that what I speak is true L. Ch. Just. Well Mr. Colledge will you call your Witnesses for I must tell the Jury as I did at your request concerning Mr. Attorney that as nothing he said so nothing you say is to be believed upon your own Allegation for then no man would ever be guilty if his own Purgation by words were to be believed Colledge My Lord I thank God I know my own Innocency and hope to prove it I have a Soul that must live to Eternity either in Joy or Misery I act according to those principles and I hope I have some assurance of my own salvation when I dye I would not call God to Witness to a Lye to save 1000 lives My Lord this is a villanous Conspiracy against me and if it take place against me it may go a great way God knows how far This is the 17 th or 18 th Sham Plot the Papists have made against the Protestants to get over their own but I hope my Lord God Almighty will never suffer it If they can make me a Traytor they will try it upon others and so hope to sham off their own Treasons but I say I hope God Almighty will never suffer it My Lord I think the first Witness that swore against me was Mr. Dugdale and I must call my Witnesses as I have them here I know no person of them hardly and this that is done for my defence was done abroad My Lord I have been kept close Prisoner in the Tower and none of them suffered to come to me whilst the Popish Lords have had the Liberty and Priviledg to talk with their friends Here are Witnesses I hope
will prove that these are Suborned men for Macnamarra did tell me presently after the Parliament broke up at Oxon and whispered it to me in the Coffee-house Said he there is a Design laid to make us retract our Evidence and go over to Fitz Girald Said I I suppose they have been at that sport a great while Ah said he they make large offers Said I by whom Said he Colonel Warcupp hath been at me and he tells me Mr. Just Jones Macnamarra is not produced against you as a Witness at all Colledge No but he told me this that there was such a design and said he I will get you and some other honest men and he desired me to be by when he had something more to tell which would do his business for him but the next news I heard of him was he was put into Newgate L. Ch. Just Call your Witnesses Mr. Colledge and prove what you can Coll. Call Mr. Hickman Mr. Attorn Gen. My Lord I desire he may observe the same rule he desired about our Witnesses that he may call but one at a time Coll. Yes yes I will call them one by one L. Ch. Just Are not your Witnesses together send to them Coll. My Lord I don't know I have not seen one since I come This is not the first time my Lord the Papists have designed to take away my Life though it is the first time they went about to take it away by a Law L. Ch. Just I know not of one Papist that is a Witness against you Coll. There is never a man of them except Sir William Jennings but what was a Papist Mr. Attorn Gen. What say you to Mr. Masters Coll. Mr. Masters says nothing material it was only a jocose discourse Mr. Serj. Jeff. It was very pleasant discourse upon my word you were as merry as when you were singing of the Rary Shew Mr. Just Jones What do you make mirth of the blackest Tragedy that ever was That horrid Rebellion and the Murther of the late King Coll. I never justified that Parliament in any such thing that they did contrary to Law Mr. Just Jones He swears it Mr. Attorn Gen. Hickman does not appear call another Coll. Call William Shewin who appeared L. Ch. Just Look you here Friend you are not to be sworn but when you speak in a Court of Justice and in a course of Justice you must speak as in the presence of God and only speak what is true Coll. I would not have any body speak any thing for me but what is truth L. Ch. Just Now ask him what you will Coll. I don't know the Gentleman But pray Sir will you tell what you know of these Witnesses Mr. Shewin Name any of them that I know pray Sir and I 'll tell you Coll. Do you know Bryan Haynes Mr. Shewin I know there is such a man but I have nothing to say to him Coll. Do you know Turbervile Mr. Shewin Yes Coll. Pray tell what you know of him Mr. Shewin My Lord I was in Turbervile's Company on Thursday night last at the Golden Posts at Charing-cross and there I heard him say that if I were at Oxford I should hear strange things against Colledge and he would lay ten to one that Mr. Bethel and Mr. Wilmore should be hanged at Christmas and he would lead him by the Gold Chain along Fleetstreet and down with his Breeches in the middle of the Coffee-house with a Band about his Neck and a Cloak Mr. Serj. Jeff. Did he say all these things against Mr. Sheriff Bethel I assure you he is a bold man Coll. What do you know of Mr. Smith Mr. Shewin I know him by sight but I have nothing in particular to say concerning him I have something to say to Macnamarra Sir if he were here Coll. Do you know any thing of this Conspiracy in general Mr. Jones What of your Conspiracy Mr. Shewin I know that they did lay who should be hang'd at Candlemas who at Christmass and who at several other times L. Ch. Just What did you hear Turbervile say Mr. Shewin Those words I spake before about Sheriff Bethel and about the Amsterdam Coffee-house Coll. Did they say what time I should be hang'd for the discourse ' rose about me Mr. Shewin One told me that there was one that did design to be returned upon this Jury that was resolved to hang him right or wrong Mr High Sher. My Lord I did hear there was such a one and I left him out of the Jury L. Ch. Just For Mr. Sheriffs honour we must take notice of what he hath said He says he heard of a man that spoke something of that nature and therefore he left him out of the Jury Coll. Now 't is possible these Witnesses were at the same sport Mr. Shewin Was Mr. Peacock Mrs. Fits-harris Maids Father or she here either of them Witnesses against you Mr. Serj. Jeff. No they were not Sir Coll. They did swear against me at the finding of the Bill Mr. Serj. Jeff. We have only called these Witnesses if you can say any thing against them do Coll. Call Henry Hickman who appeared Mr. Serj. Holl. Where do you live Sir Mr. Hickm At Holborn-bridge Mr. Attorn Gen. What Trade are you Mr. Hickm A Cabinet-maker L. Ch. Just What do you ask him Coll. Do you know Haynes Hickm Yes very well because he used to come to my house to a Popish Widow that was a Lodger in my house where I live now and this person was a Prisoner at Haynes's when he was a Prisoner in the Fleet. I always had a suspicion he was a Priest not that I could accuse him really of any thing but he several times using to come to my house I thought so of him and discoursing with my Land-lady L. Ch. Just Your Tenant you mean Mr. Hickm Yes my Tenant I asked her what this fellow was said she he is a very dangerous Fellow though he is a Papist and I am one my self yet he is a dangerous person and he does not much care what he swears against any one Mr. Just Jones This your Tenant told you what do you know your self Mr. Hickm Another time he came to speak with my Tenant Mrs. Scot who is now gone into Ireland when he came to the house he asked me is Mrs. Scot within Yes said I Mr. Haynes she is above and up he goes and there they locked the door and plucked out the key so I slipt off my Shoes for I thought there might be more danger from such people than I could discover any other way So I went up stairs and stood at the door and hearkned hearing my Land-lady talk something to him he wraps out a great Oath God dam me said he I care not what I swear nor who I swear against for 't is my Trade to get money by swearing Whereupon my Lord I came down as fast as I could and a little after I saw him go out and
Monday last I was at Uxbridge and a Gentleman sent his Man on purpose to let me know I must go to Colebrook and stay till they came thither When I came there I met Bryan Haynes at the Crown-Kitchin-Window and he was stirring a Glass of Brandy and sweetning it with Sugar Said he Sir will you drink Here is the King's Health to you So I drank and I asked him how he did Do you know me Sir said he Yes said I I drank with you once Says he you have a good Memory So then a Pint of Sack was called for and after that another and then came down Mrs. Peacock and being very fine all in her Flower'd Silks I asked what Gentlewoman that was Said he It is Mrs. Fitz-harris No says I it is not they say she is gone But said he it is her Maid and Sheriff Bethel is to marry her As I have a Soul to save I tell you nothing but what is truth Thereupon said I Sheriff Bethel is able to maintain her he hath a good Estate But said he it shall be the King 's e'er long Coll. So that here is a plain design against all the eminent Protestants Mr. Lun So with that my Lord if it please your Honour I clapped my Groat down at the Bar and went out of the Room Nay said he let us have one Health more and so he had his Tankard and I had mine Haynes I humbly desire you to call for Mr. White the King's Messenger who was by I never saw the Man before he was at Uxbridge and asking Mr. White who he was Said he His Name is Lun he was my Prisoner two Years L. Ch. Just What say you to the discourse he talks of at Fleet-Bridge Haynes My Lord I am upon my Oath and I never saw him in my life before I saw him at Uxbridge Mr. Lun I will take the Sacrament upon it that what I have averred is true Mr. Serj. Jeff. I suppose you are both known and then your Credit will be left to the Jury Mr. Attorn Gen. There is Mr. White pray swear him Which was done L. Ch. Just Do you remember that Haynes asked who Mr. Lun was Mr. White It was at the Bar of the Crown Inn at Uxbridge and I being there Mr. Lun came into the Yard and I knowing Mr. Lunn asked him How he did he said He was glad to see me and he called for a Pint of Sack to make me drink Haynes stood by and he asked Who he was and I told him and we drank the King's health but for any thing of those words that were spoken there Sir I did hear not one word of them but he thanked me for my civility when I summoned him up to Court and seeing Mr. Haynes by he asked who he was Mr. Serj. Jeff. And you take it upon your Oath that he asked you who Haynes was Mr. White Yes I do Mr. Serj. Jeff. Pray did you hear any discourse that time as if there had been a meeting upon Fleet-bridge Mr. White Not one word of that Mr. Lun I will take the Sacrament upon it what I say is true Mr. Serj. Jeff. We know you Mr. Lun we only ask questions about you that the Jury may know you too as well as we We remember what once you swore about an Army Coll. I don't know him Mr. Lun I don't come here to give Evidence of any thing but the truth I was never upon my knees before the Parliament for any thing Mr. Serj. Jeff. Nor I neither for much but yet once you were when you cryed Scatter them good Lord. Coll. Call Mr. Broadgate L. Ch. Just What is your Christian name Sir Mr. Broadg. Jeremiah L. Ch. Just What do you ask him Mr. Broadg. My Lord I am a Stranger to the Prisoner at the Bar what I have to say is concerning Mr. Turbervile whom I met one day and he asked me how I did said he I owe you a little money but I will pay you in a short time but if you will go to drink a Glass of Ale No said I I am in haste and do not care for going to drink said he You shall go so away we went and when we were sat said he When did you see Turbervile that was my Lord Powis's Butler said he He was a great Rogue to me and when I stood up for the Nations good he villified my Evidence and afterwards he came to me with Doctor _____ to beg my Pardon but I would not forgive him for the whole World And speaking of the King's Evidence said he The King's Evidence are looked upon as nothing as poor inconsiderable mean Fellows and their Sallaries are lessened and said he I have had the greatest proffers from Court of Preferment and Rewards if I would go from what I have said and come upon the contrary and he repeated it Yes upon the Faith of a Man and from the Highest But said he I have a Soul and a Body a Body for a Time but my Soul for Eternity and I cannot go from it He went over it again I might have what I would if I would go from what I have said and come upon the contrary Mr. Attorn Gen. But he does not go from any thing of what he hath said Coll. Did he say what he was offered and by whom Mr. Broadg. He said he had very great offers from the Court if he would disown the Plot and go upon the contrary L. Ch. Just But he does not disown it Mr. Just Jones Nay he had a Soul to save and could not go from it Mr. Serj. Jeff. You talk of the contrary and the contrary What did he mean by that what Plot should he disown Mr. Broadg. The Popish Plot. L. Ch. Just He does not disown it nor never did disown it Coll. He would make a Presbyterian Plot of it now for he cannot say I am in the Popish Plot. Sir do you know any thing more of him Or did he name me Or that he was to swear against me or any Protestant Mr. Broadg. No only he said the King's Evidence were villified and looked upon as poor inconsiderable Fellows but it seemed if he would go on the other side he might have great Preferments and Rewards L. Ch. Just You make a wrong Comment upon it Mr. Colledge it was if he would retract his Evidence and disown the Plot. Coll. I leave it to your Lordship and the Jury to make the Sense of it Mr. Broadg. I saw Mr. Turbervile since I come hither and he asked Are you come Mr. Broadgate to give Evidence against me says I I am come to declare the truth and nothing but the truth Mr. Serj. Jeff. You might have stay'd at home for any thing material that you do Evidence Coll. Call Mr. Zeal who appeared L. Ch. Just What is your Christian-name Sir Mr. Zeal John L. Ch. Just What would you ask him Mr. Serj. Holloway Where do you dwell Sir Mr. Zeal In London Mr.
Serj. Jeff. Whereabouts Mr. Zeal In Fetter-lane Mr. Serj. Holl. What Countryman are you Sir Mr. Zeal Somersetshire Mr. Attorn Gen. Whereabouts in Somersetshire were you born Mr Zeal By Sir Portman's within six Miles of him Mr. Serj. Jeff. What Trade Sir Mr. Zeal No Trade Mr. Serj. Jeff. Have you any Estate Mr. Zeal My Father has I was bred to wait upon a Person of Quality Coll. Do you know Turbervile Sir Mr. Zeal Yes Sir I do Coll. What do you know of him Mr. Zeal Sir I know nothing but what Mr. Ivy told me with his own mouth L. Ch. Just Do you know any thing of your own knowledge Mr. Attorn Gen. Has Mr. Turbervile told you any thing Mr. Zeal Not concerning Mr. Colledge he has not Coll. Ivy was amongst them Mr. Zeal Yes my Lord he was the first that swore this Presbyterian Plot. L. Ch. Just We know of no Presbyterian Plot. Coll. Can you say nothing of your own knowledge concerning Turbervile Mr. Zeal Nothing but what Mr. Ivy told me Mr. Serj. Jeff. That is not of your own knowledge and so it is nothing for he is not produced in this Cause Coll. Pray my Lord give me leave to call Mr. Ivy. Mr. Serj. Jeff. Do if you will He stood up Coll. What was that you heard Turbervile say of me or of any Presbyterian Plot Ivy. I never heard him say any thing concerning a Presbyterian Plot in my life Coll. Did not you tell Zeale of such a thing Ivy. No I never did Coll. Hark you Mr. Ivy you have sworn against me have you not Ivy. What I have sworn against you or any other person is true Coll. What have you sworn against me Ivy. I am not bound to answer you Coll. Did not you call me out with Macnamarra and Haynes to the Hercules Pillars L. Ch. Just Look you Mr. Colledge I will tell you something for Law and to set you right whatsoever Witnesses you call you call them as Witnesses to testifie the truth for you and if you ask them any Questions you must take what they have said as truth therefore you must not think to ask him any Question and afterwards call another Witness to disprove your own Witness Coll. I ask him was he the first time with us when I was called out of the Coffee-house to hear Haynes's Discovery L. Ch. Just Let him answer you if he will but you must not afterwards go to disprove him Coll. If he were sworn against me I would not ask him any Questions for he is among them L. Ch. Just Ask him what you will Coll. I desire not if he have sworn against me for truly I can't expect a good Answer from him but he was by when Haynes made his Discovery L. Ch. Just Will you ask him any Questions Coll. I ask whether he hath given any Evidence against me any where Ivy. I am not bound to answer you L. Ch. Just Tell him if you have Ivy. Yes my Lord I have Coll. Then I think he is no good Witness for me when he hath sworn against me Ivy. I have sworn against him and others You know that you and I have had a great many Intrigues about this business in hand and how we dealt with Mr. Haynes L. Ch. Just Look you he does not call you for a Witness for him you can testifie nothing and so you must be quiet Coll. Call Mr. Lewes Who appeared L. Ch. Just What is your Christian Name Mr. Lewes William Coll. Pray Mr. Lewes what do you know about Turbervile Mr. Lewes I know nothing at all I assure you of him that is ill Coll. Do you know any thing concerning any of the Evidence that hath been given here Mr. Lewes If I knew any thing relating to you I would declare it but I know something of Mr. Ivy it has no relation to you as I conceive but against my Lord of Shaftsbury L. Ch. Just You would call Ivy for a Witness and now you call one against him and that I told you you must not do but Ivy is not at all in this Case Coll. Do you know any thing of the rest of them Haynes or Smith or Dugdale Mr. Lewes No more than what Mr. Zeale told me was told him Coll. Do you know any thing of a Presbyterian Plot Mr. Lewes If the Court please to hear me I will tell my knowledge of that but I know nothing that affects him in the least only that which concerns my Lord of Shaftsbury L. Ch. Just That is nothing to the purpose call another Mr. Lewes There was not to my knowledge a word mentioned of your Name I will do you all the Justice I can if I knew any thing concerning you I would be sure to relate it Coll. I cannot say who can or who cannot I am a Stranger to all of it L. Ch. Just Well call your next Witness Coll. My Lord there was a Petition presented to the Common Council of London wherein they set out that they were tamper'd withal about a Plot against the Protestants L. Ch. Just A Petition from whom Coll. I cannot tell from whom from some of these Witnesses L. Ch. Just Who preferred and signed it Coll. Mr. Turbervile was one Pray call Doctor Oates L. Ch. Just The Prisoner calls upon you Mr. Oates What would you ask him Mr. Colledge Coll. Where is the Petition to the Common Council Doctor Dr. Oates I have it here in my hand L. Ch. Just By whom was it presented Dr. Oates It was given by Mr. Turbervile and Mr. Macnamarra to Mr. Wilmore L. Ch. Just Was you present when it was delivered Dr. Oates Mr. Wilmore did deliver it to me before he was apprehended for being to come down as a Witness he was taken up and committed to Prison L. Ch. Just Whose Hands are to it Dr. Oates I know Mr. Turbervile's Hand he will not disown it Clerk Reads It is subscribed Edward Turbervile John Macnamarra L. Ch. Just Look you Mr. Colledge what word is there in all this Petition that is a contradiction to what they have said now Coll. I did not hear it my Lord. L. Ch. Just They say they are constant Witnesses for the King against the Papists and they have been tempted to unsay what they have said how does that contradict what they say now Coll. I suppose they say they have been tempted to turn the Plot upon other people and to make a Plot upon the Protestants L. Ch. Just They have been tempted they say by the Papists to unsay what they have said but the Jury have heard it read and will give it its due weight Will you ask Mr. Oates any Questions Coll. What do you know of Mr. Turbervile Dr. Oates As to Turbervile my Lord a little before the Witnesses were sworn at the Old Bayley I met with Mr. Turbervile I was in a Coach but seeing Mr. Turbervile I stept out of the Coach and spoke with him for hearing that he was a Witness
I did ask him whether he was a Witness or no against Colledge Mr. Turbervile said he would break any one's head that should say so against him for he neither was a Witness nor could give any Evidence against him So after he came from Oxon I met with Mr. Turbervile again and hearing he had been there I asked him if he had sworn any thing against Colledge He said Yes he had been sworn before the Grand Jury Said I did not you tell me so and so Why said he the Protestant Citizens have deserted us and God damn him he would not starve L. Ch. Just Would he say so to you Dr. Oates Yes my Lord he said those very words Mr. Serj. Jeff. 'T is Mr. Oates Saying 't is Mr. Turbervile's Oath Dr. Oates Several times he did repeat it but when I asked him what he had sworn he said I am not bound to satisfie peoples Curiosities L. Ch. Just What say you to it Mr. Turbervile Mr. Turbervile My Lord the first part of the Doctor 's discourse in part is true I met him just at my Lodgings and the Doctor alighted out of his Coach and spoke to me and invited me to come to my old Friends for he told me they had some jealousie that I was not true to them and he told me if I would come to the King's Head Club I should be received with a great deal of kindness and never afterwards did I speak with the Doctor a tittle about any Evidence L. Ch. Just He says you said you would break any one's head that said you were an Evidence against Colledge for you were not nor could be Mr. Turbervile There was no such thing said by me Mr. Attorn Gen. Upon your Oath did you tell him so Mr. Turbervile Upon my Oath I did not Mr. Serj. Jeff. Did you tell him that other passage when you swore you would not starve Mr. Turbervile No I did not Dr. Oates Upon the word of a Priest what I say is true My Lord I do say as I am a Minister I speak it sincerely in the presence of God this Gentleman did say these words to me which made me afraid of the man and I went my ways and never spake with him afterwards nor durst I for I thought he that would swear curse after that rate was not fit to be talked with L. Ch. Just 'T is very improbable that he should say so to you Mr. Turbervile I always looked upon Dr. Oates as a very ill man and never would converse much with him L. Ch. Just Will you ask him any thing more Coll. Do you know any thing of the rest Doctor Dr. Oates I know nothing of Turbervile further but that he did present this Petition wherein he says he lay under great temptations to go on the other side and accuse some Protestants And truly till I heard he was an Evidence at Oxon after what he had said to me I did not believe it Mr. Attorn Gen. Doctor Oates Mr. Turbervile hath not changed Sides you have he is still an Evidence for the King you are against him Dr. Oates Mr. Attorney I am a Witness for Truth against Falshood and Subornation and it cannot plainly be made to appear there is Subornation against the Protestants And moreover my Lord L. Ch. Just Mr. Oates you would do well to explain your self Mr. Serj. Jeff. If there be any subornation relating to Mr. Turbervile or any of the other Witnesses that have now sworn against Colledge make it out Doctor Dr. Oates There is my Lord and there will be made further to appear in time to come To my own knowledge as to Mr. Smith Mr. Colledge and Mr. Smith had some provoking words passed betwixt them at Richards Coffee-house and Mr. Smith comes out and swears God damn him he would have Colledges bloud So my Lord when I met him said I Mr. Smith you profess your self to be a Priest and have stood at the Altar and now you intend to take upon you the Ministery of the Church of England and these words do not become a Minister of the Gospel his reply was God damn the Gospel this is truth I speak it in the presence of God and Man L. Ch. Just Can you say any thing of any of the other Witnesses Dr. Oates As for Mr. Dugdale I was ingaged for him for 50 li. for last Lent Assizes he wanted money to go down to the Assizes having pay'd some debts and pay'd away all his money and so I ingaged for 50 li. that he borrowed of Richard the Coffee-man After he came from Oxen I called upon him to hasten to get his money of the Lords in the Treasury which as near as I remember was ordered him upon his Petition for so I heard And at that time said he Sir I hear there is a great noise of my being an Evidence against whom said I against several Protestants my Lord Shaftsbury and others said I I never heard any thing of it says he there is no body hath any Cause to make any such Report of me for I call God to Witness I know nothing against any Protestant in England After that I met with Dugdale at Richards Coffee-house and pressing him for the money and he saying he had it not just then but would pay it in a little time Mr. Dugdale said I you have gone I am afraid against your Conscience I am sure against what you have declared to me said he It was all long of Colonel Warcup for I could get no money else Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Oats is a through paced Witness against all the King's Evidence Mr. Serj. Jeff. And yet Dr. Oates had been alone in some matters had it not been for some of these Witnesses Dr. Oates I had been alone perhaps and perhaps not but yet Mr. Serjeant I had always a better Reputation than to need theirs to strengthen it Mr. Serj. Jeff. Does any man speak of your Reputation I know no body does meddle with it but you are so tender Coll. Sir George Now a man is upon his Life I think you do not do well to affront his Witnesses Mr. Serj. Jeff. I do not affront him but now my Lord pray give us leave to call our Witnesses Mr. Smith pray stand up L. Ch. Just Mr. Smith do you hear what Mr. Oates hath said Mr. Smith No my Lord. L. Ch. Just Then speak it again Mr. Oates Dr. Oates Yes my Lord I will speak it to his face He said coming out of Richards Coffee-house They having had some provoking words as I understood when I come in God damn that Colledge I will have his blood and my Lord when I did reprove him and said to him Mr. Smith you have been a Priest and stood at the Altar and intend to be a Minister of the Church of England these words do not become a Minister of the Gospel and he replied God damn the Gospel and away he went L. Ch. Just What say you
to it Mr. Smith Mr. Smith Not one word of this is true upon my Oath 'T is a wonderful thing you should say this of me but I will sufficiently prove it against you That you have confounded the Gospel and denied the Divinity too Mr. Serj. Jeff. Mr. Dugdale you heard what was said against you Dr. Oates My Lord now Dugdale is come I will tell you something more There was a Report given out by Mr. Dugdale's means that Mr. Dugdale was poysoned and in truth my Lord it was but the Pox. And this Sham passed throughout the Kingdom in our Intelligencies and this I will make appear by the Physician that cured him Mr. Serj. Jeff. That is but by a third hand Dr. Oates He did confess that he had an old Clap and yet he gave out he was Poysoned but now my Lord as to what I said before of him I was ingaged for 50 li. for Mr. Dugdale do you own that Mr. Dugdale I do own it Dr. Oates I did press upon you to hasten the payment of it Mr. Dugdale Yes you did Dr. Oates And did not you come to me and tell me there was a noise of your being an Evidence it was in time just before my Lord Shaftsbury was taken up Mr. Dugdale I never spoke to you till you spake to me Dr. Oates My Lord he came and said to me there is a noise of my being an Evidence now I had not heard it then but the day after I did hear it and I did justifie Mr. Dugdale because he had said to me that he had nothing against any Protestant in England So I did stand up in Vindication of him but my Lord after he had sworn at the old Baily I met him again and pressed him for the money and urged him with it why he had sworn against Colledge when he had told me so and so before and he said it was all long of Colonel Warcup for he could not get his money else and Colonel Warcup did promise he should have a place at the Custom-house Mr. Dugd. Upon the Oath I have taken and as I hope for salvation it is not true Mr. Serj. Jeff. Here is Dugdale's Oath against Dr. Oates's saying Dr. Oates Mr. Serjeant you shall hear of this in another place Mr. Attorn Gen. 'T is an unhappy thing that Dr. Oates should come in against these men that supported his Evidence before Mr. Dugd. My Lord I say further if any Doctor will come forth and say he cured me of a Clap or any such thing I will stand Guilty of all that is imputed to me L. Ch. Just Mr. Colledge will you call any other Witnesses Coll. My Lord I think this is not fair dealing with a man for his Life because these men be upon their Oaths and deny the things again that my Witnesses prove therefore what they swear must needs be taken for truth but if my Witness comes and says such a thing upon the word of a Minister and in the presence of God and which he is ready to maintain by an Oath sure it is not to stand for nothing nor he to be hooted out of Court because Mr. Dugdale denies it upon his Oath I do suppose he will not acknowledge it But my Lord I am the Prisoner and cannot be heard as a Witness for my self but God is my Witness he hath said a great deal more to me formerly and he hath told me when I have seen him with Warcup and asked him why I kept Company with Warcup and others said he I know they are suspected men but I must keep Company with them to get my money what would you have me do starve And when I lent him money out of my Pocket and trusted him with my Horse I dun'd him for money and could not get it said I will you pay me the 5 li. I lent you he put me off said he I shall have it for the Attorney General hath made up his Accompts and is very kind to me why then said I why have you it not said he he is my Friend and I do not question the getting of it but here is new work to be done such work as my Conscience will not serve me to do there is more Roguery they will never have done Plotting and Counterplotting but they will make a thousand Plots if they can to destroy the real one L. Ch. Just Can you prove this now Coll. No it was spoken to my self and no body was by but my self L. Ch. Just Then you should not speak it But you asked the question whether a man may not be believed upon his word as well as he that is upon his Oath Your Witnesses are not upon their Oaths but they may be Witnesses and their weight is to be left with the Jury they will consider how improbable it is that these men should come Three men to One man and all of them should speak that which would make themselves Rogues and Villains and that one man of them Smith should say such vile words as God damn him he would have his blood and God damn the Gospel that Dugdale should confess he was wrought upon by Warcup to testifie against his Conscience and that Turbervile should say to that purpose He would not starve they have sworn the contrary and so there are all these Three mens Oaths against One mans Affirmation but it must be left to the Jury Colledge There is his Affirmation against what they three say He charges every one of them and 't is but the single denial of every one of them to his Charge L. C. J. 'T is improbable they should own themselves such Villains to him Dr. Oats They must be so if they will do what they have undertaken I hope my Word will be believed as soon as their Oaths Colledge It is not to be thought but when they have Sworn so against me they will deny any such thing when they are charged with it L. C. J. Have you done with your Witnesses Or will you call any more Colledge What is said upon an honest mans word in the face of a Court is certainly to be believed as well as what is Sworn L. C. J. 'T is a Testimony that is most certain and must be left to the Jury they must weigh one against the other But pray Mr. Colledge will you call your Witnesses for it begins to grow late Colledge There is Mr. Wilmore that was a material Witness for me who was Foreman of the Grand Jury that would not find the Bill upon this Evidence What he had to say I don't know but I am informed it was very material for me L. C. J. It will be enough for him to clear himself for he is charged with High Treason and by two Witnesses too Colledge Call Alexander Blake L. C. J. What do you ask him Colledge Do you know John Smith Mr. Blake Yes Sir Colledge Pray will you tell the Court what you know of John Smith Mr.
Blake I suppose you mean this Gentleman Mr. John Smith Gent. came to me one morning and told me there was one Haynes under Examination and this Haynes had Discovered very material things against some Great Persons This passed and within few days after I met Mr. Smith at the Exchange Coffee-House and having saluted him I desired him to drink a glass of Wine and so we went to the Sun Tavern and when we were there I asked him what his sence was of Haynes and his Discovery Said he 't is a Sham Plot I asked him what he meant by that Sham Plot Said he 't is a meal-tub Plot. This is all that I know L. C. J. Would you ask him any thing else Mr. Blake I know nothing more Colledge Do you know any thing of Turbervill or Dugdale Mr. Blake Sir I have no Acquaintance with him nor desire it But I was Acquainted with this Gent. Mr. Smith I know him very well Mr. Serg. Jefferies You say well stand down Colledge Call Mr. Samuel Smith L. C. J. What ask you him Colledge What he knows of Mr. Smith Mr. S. Smith Mr. John Smith and I have had an Intimacy and Acquaintance several moneths and since Mr. John Smith swore at the Old Baily against Mr. Colledge and was gone out of Town several People have talked with me concerning him and asking me what I thought of him I told them I believed he was an honest man however I would not believe otherwise till I knew a Reason of it They told me that he had sworn against Mr. Colledge that he was to seize the King at the Parliament at Oxford and that there was 1500 Barrels of Powder and it was to carry on a Presbyterian Plot Said I I will never believe it and the rather because he hath said to me often there was a Popish Plot but he does not believe any Presbyterian or Protestant Plot and said I further as to his giving any Evidence with Irish-men I believe it the less for that for I have heard him often say they were a company of Rogues that had done the Protestant Interest more harm than ever they could do it good and bid me have a care of coming into their Company and many other such things that Mr. Smith here knows to be true Then my Lord when Mr. Smith came home for I was very impatient till he did come home to hear every day such things said against him I went to him to see him Said I Cousin Smith I have had great confronts about you since you went away but I hope you can't be that ill man you are represented to be and truly I should be sorry it should be so Pray Cousin said I I have put every man off with this that I would suspend my belief of you till I had spoken with you your self what is the Evidence you have given They say you have sworn a Presbyterian Plot or a Protestant Plot a Design of seizing the King at Oxon and of so many Barrels of Gun-powder that were provided Says my Cousin I did swear no such thing nor never a word of any such thing as a Protestant Plot or a Presbyterian Plot and pray do not believe it of me No said I I thought you could not swear any such thing because you have said often to me you believed there was no such thing I do not believe it yet said he and as to whatsoever Colledge said I did not believe it for he did not believe it himself And Mr. Smith told me after his return that he did not know of any Protestant concerned in the Plot. L. C. J. He does not say now 't is a Protestant Plot. Mr. S. Smith So far from that that he told me after his Return he did not know any Protestant concerned in the Plot. L. C. J. Mr. Smith Thus I understand you You say that he said to you That he had not testified anything of a Protestant Plot nor did believe there was any Protestant Plot for he did not believe what Colledge said himself So by that discourse it seems he did not deny but he had testified against Mr Colledge but he did not believe there was any Protestant Plot Mr. S. Smith No my Lord he did not deny but he had sworn against Colledge Mr. Just Jones Nor that what he had said against Colledge was true Mr. S. S. No my Lord but he did not believe him and he thought Colledge did not believe it himself Mr. S. Jeff. It seems Mr. Colledge thinks the whole Protestant Interest concerned in him L. C. J. The Question is Mr. Colledge what you had in your mind not what was in the mind of all the Protestants Mr. S. S. This I do say I would not speak more nor less than the truth he did not deny but he had heard Colledge speak those words he swore but he did not believe him and I think Mr. Smith hath said that at another time before Mr. Gardner Colledge If he knew of no Protestant Plot it was very unlikely that I should attempt such a thing my self Mr. S. S. My Lord I find Mr. Smith hath been very passionate and very inveterate of late against other men that he hath given me a very good report of before And when I was talking of this I was saying If it be true that people say of you a man goes in danger of his life to converse with you Mr. Smith said he I do not care for all the men between Wapping and Charing-cross there is never a man that will forbear my company but would do or say as much as Colledge hath done or said Mr. J. Smith 'T is true and I say so still Colledge 'T is a contradiction in it self That there should be such a design and none but my self to do it God my righteous Judges knows my innocency Mr. Just Jones You might say those words in hopes they would be of your party and made so by your Libels and poysonous Pictures L. C. J. Come call another Witness Colledge Call Mr. Tho. Gardner But my Lord how likely is it that I should say That I would seize the King when he it seems says he did not believe there was one man to stand by me L. C. J. What say you to this Gentleman Colledge I never saw him in my life Mr. Gardner Nor I you Sir Colledge I know not three of all that come here L. C. J. Well will you ask him any thing Colledge Pray do you know Mr. Smith Mr. Gardner Yes Colledge What do you know of him Can you say any thing concerning this matter that is sworn against me of Treason Mr. Gardner My Lord this day fortnight I think it was Mr. S. Smith the Gent. that was just now up before me sent for me to the Rummer in Queen-street to drink a Glass of Wine where when I came I found him and Mr. J. Smith that is here whom they call Narrative Smith talking very briskly concerning
one Colledge I suppose that is the Gentleman and the Jury that acquitted him and he said that 2 or 3 of the Jury-men were Rascals and Villains and says he they talk up and down the Town as if I did intend to Sham the Popish Plot and to make a Protestant Plot which said he I vow to God and I will justifie it before God and all the world that I know of no Protestant Plot nor is there any Protestant concerned in a Plot to my knowledge but this Colledge and upon his Tryal I believe he will be made appear to be more a Papist than a Protestant but says Mr. Smith to him Now you are known to be a witness in this Case it will be a dangerous thing for a man to converse with you Coll. Will it be now known that I am a Papist No man could ever say so in this world Mr. Gardner Says he I care not what all the world says of me and I do not value all the men from Wapping to Charing-cross but that man that will shun my company will say and do as much to the King as Colledge hath done But then I was saying me thinks it seems an improbable thing that such a man as Colledge should seize upon the King or provide 1500 Barrels of Powder and those other things Upon my word said he with some passion clapping his hand upon his breast when Mr. Colledge did say it I did not believe a word of it and upon my faith I believe Colledge himself did not believe it when he told me so Colledge Do you know any thing more Sir Mr. Gardner No indeed Mr. Colledge Colledge Call Dr. Oats again L. C. J. Well what say you to him Colledge Pray Dr. Oats Mr. Smith charges me that I should speak some Treasonable words that time that Alderman Wilcox gave you a Treat at the Crown Tavern you were there and pray how long ago was it Dr. Oats My Lord I heard Mr. Smith speaking of it at the Old-baily and if you please to take notice it was thus This Summer was twelve-month or I am sure a great while before Christmas the Alderman had invited me several times to give me a Treat and I had not time other business calling me off but finding a time I sent him word I would come and see him He said he was a Brewer and troubled at home with Customers but he would give me a dinner at the Grown Tavern without Temple-Bar that was the place fixed upon there was Mr. Smith the Counsellor who had been serviceable to me in several instances I did get him to go along with me and Mr. Colledge was with us and I heard Smith swearing at the Old-baily that Mr. Colledge and he had discourse from the Rainbow Coffee-house where we met and went together Colledge There I was invited by Alderman Wilcox Dr. Oats But my Lord I will tell my story I am not to tell Smith's Colledge did tell me he was invited said I You shall be welcome as far as I can make you welcome So Colledge and I went together from the Rainbow Coffee-house to the Crown Tavern Now indeed Colledge was very pleasant and merry and as I think the discourse betwixt the Rainbow Coffee-house and the Tavern was betwixt Mr. Colledge and me for M. Smith stayed somewhat behind or walked before I cannot tell which When we came to the Crown Tavern we did to divert our selves till dinner came up enter into a Philosophical discourse with one Mr. Savage who was formerly a Romish Priest but this Savage is since pardoned by the King and is a Member of the Church of England and hath been Professor of Divinity and Philosophy beyond Sea This as I remember was the discourse before we dined till we went to Dinner it was concerning the Existence of God whether that could be proved by natural demonstration and whether or no the Soul was immortal My Lord after Dinner Smith went away I did not hear the least discourse of any such thing as he speaks of and Mr. Smith and Colledge had no discourse in my hearing from the Coffee-house to the Tavern and when we were in the Tavern we did discourse about those two Points Counsellor Smith my Lord will justifie a great deal of this and my Brother too who was with us But when I heard Mr. Smith swear as he did about this matter at the Old-baily I did really my Lord in my Conscience look upon him to be forsworn in that particular Mr. Ser. Jeff. And he does swear you are out in this L. C. J. Will you ask him any more questions Dr. Oats If your Lordship please he speaks of Mr. Wilcox to be a man that contributed money to buy Arms Powder and Shot I think Sr. George Jefferies knows Alderman Wilcox is a man of another employment Mr. S. Jeff. Sir George Jefferies does not intend to be an evidence I assure you L. C. J. Do you ask him any more questions Dr. Oats I do not desire Sr. George Jefferies to be an Evidence for me I had Credit in Parliaments and Sr George had Disgrace in one of them Mr. Ser. Jeff. Your servant Doctor you are a witty man and a Philosopher Colledge Call Mr. Thomas Smith L. C. J. What would you ask of him now Colledge Counsellor Smith here is John Smith or Narrative Smith which you please to call him hath charged me with speaking Treason at our going to Dinner at Wilcox's I remember you were there and I think you and I and Dr. Oats and his Brother and Mr. Godwin Wharton went together I did tell Mr. Smith of it but I did not stir a step out of the Coffee-house with him but went away before him How long ago is it since we had that Dinner Mr. T. Smith My Lord if your Lordship please I do very well remember Mr. Alderman Wilcox so they called him did desire to give Dr. Oates a Treat with some other of his Friends at the Crown Tavern without Temple-Bar but really my Lord as to the certain time I do not remember it but to my best remembrance my Lord it was before Christmas last and some time before Christmas last And my Lord I was there all the time Mr. Smith was at that time somewhat a stranger to me something I had heard of his Name and I did stay there all the while I remember Mr. Alderman Wilcox was to go out of Town that day and truly as to any thing of matter of Treason or Treasonable words or any thing tending towards it I am confident nothing was or could be spoken and the Room was a very small Room and our Company did fill it up and the Table was so big that there was little more than for the Servitors to go about so that any man might easily hear from the one end of the Room to the other I remember there was some Discourse betwixt Dr. Oates and Mr. Savage who I think hath been a Jesuit
and it was about some points of Philosophy and Divinity but for Treason I do not remember the least of it and I am confident Colledge said not any such thing at that time and my Reason is this I very well remember Mr. Colledge did set himself down upon one side of the Table and fell asleep and unless he talked Treason in his sleep there could not be any such thing said and if it had been said it would have been heard Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Smith did you never hear Mr. Colledge speak any ill words of the King Mr. T. Smith Never in my Life And if I were now to take the Sacrament upon it I could say so Mr. Serg. Jefferies You used to converse with him Mr. Smith did he never say any thing like it to you Mr. T. Smith Good Mr. Sergeant you know I can take the Sacrament pray let us have no Reflections Mr. Serg. Jefferies Who did reflect upon you I did not reflect upon you Mr. Just Jones Mr. Smith did he never deliver you any of those Pictures Mr. T. Smith No Sir he never did Colledge Good Sir George don't reflect upon my Evidence It seems Smith is mistaken in the time for he says it was at Christmas but Mr. Smith says it was some time before L. C. J. Mr. Smith does not say so the certain time he cannot tell exactly but your Witnesses say it was then Mr. T. Smith I do speak as much as if I were upon my Oath and I know what an Oath is I thank God and what it is to speak before a Court of Judicature and I know and do speak truth as much as if I were upon my Oath and I do say I did not hear Colledge or any one else that was in that Company at that time speak any thing Reflecting upon the King and Government or any thing tending towards it Mr. Just Jones Can you remember a matter so distinctly which Dr. Oates says was a year and half ago L. C. J. No this Summer was twelve moneth Mr Just Jones And can you tell so long ago not onely your own Actions but testifie to all other mens Actions too that were in the Room Mr. T. Smith I cannot tell what Dr. Oates's memory is as to the time but I remember the place the occasion and the Persons that were there Mr. Just Jones And you take upon you to have such a perfect memory as to the Actions of all the Persons that were in the Room Mr. T. Smith I do not speak of all that was done but I say I remember no such thing that was said and I believe no such thing was said and have given you my Reasons why But my Lord that which I say further for Mr. Colledge is this I do hear something pretended as if he provided Arms to go for Oxford I have known him this three years or thereabouts and my Lord I do know that he did usually ride with a Case or Pistols before him And before that time I had occasion to borrow his Horse of him at the Election for Westminster the last Parliament that sat there and I had it then with a Case of Pistols I likewise borrowed it at Michaelmas last the same Horse and the same Pistols they were I did at the same time see a Suit of Silk Armour which he told me he did provide against the Papists for he said he did expect we should have a brush with them Said I do not trouble your self for that they dare not meddle said he this will do no harm And as I remember it was a Suit of Armour made of Silk to wear under a Coat Coll. It was silk Armour only for the thrust of a Sword And I assure you my Lord I had but one Suit but one Case of Pistols and but one Horse I had two before but they did not then make a Traitor of me that was all that ever I had but if I had had ten Horses and never so many Armors I declare it upon my Salvation I intended it for nothing but against the Papists if they should make a disturbance and whatever I did was with that design and truly by the grace of God I would not have been the last man then but I see whatever I provided my self with for that they have turned it all another way that it might be believed the Protestants were against the King and the established Government L. C. J. Those observations may be proper for you at last Go on now with your Evidence Coll. My Lord I am not a man of that great memory I may forget it and therefore I speak it now whilst I think of it L. C. J. Set it down in your Paper Coll. Smith says I talked with him coming from Richard's Coffee-house till we came to the Tavern I do declare it I went away before him and went away with Dr. Oats L. C. J. Ask Mr. Smith that question if you will Coll. Pray Sir do you know who went together thither Mr. T. Smith I dare not undertake to say that I cannot tell whether he went from the Rainbow Coffee-house with us or no. Coll. He says after we had dined we divided our selves into Cabals two and two together I do declare it as that which is the real truth I fell asleep behind the Table if any body was divided it is more than I know but Mr. Smith you can tell because he says I spoke Treason to him when I was in the room he and I in one Cabal Mr. T. S. My Lord I remember nothing of that nor do believe it for I told you the room was so little that we could not divide our selves And it is impossible in such a little compass where we were so many as we were 14 or 15 of us it may be one might talk to another that was next to him but then the company must hear and whether they did so or no I cannot tell I do not remember Mr. Smith's saying any thing to any particular person but the great ingagement was between Dr. Oats and Mr. Savage and about some Questions in Divinity and that is the great matter I took notice of Coll. However my Lord I declare it that was above a 12 Month ago and I hope your Lordship and the Jury does observe that there was no new Arms were found but what were provided a great while ago All that know me know I was never without a Case of Pistols and an Horse though I was but a Joyner and there is no more that you see now And as to what Smith said about our going into Cabals that you hear Mr. Smith denies L. C. J. Will you call any other Witnesses Coll. Yes if it please your Lordship Do you know no more Sir Mr. T. Smith I know no other thing if I did I would declare it Coll. Call Dr. Oats's brother Mr. Samuel Oats My Lord thus you see Smith's testimony is false L. C. J. I do not see
some fears as if there would be an Insurrection amongst them said he Let the Papist Rogues begin when they will I am ready to defend my self for one This is all I know Colledge Pray Sir how long ago was this Dr. Tongue died before Christmas at my house Mr. Symonds I cannot tell exactly when it was but during the Session of Parliament I am sure it was and as I take it in November the latter end Colledge So then pray my Lord see that these Arms they charge me withal were provided before Christmas L. C. J. But there is nothing that contradicts Dugdale's Testimony in all this Colledge It does sufficiently contradict him L. C. J. I do not see that this does at all contradict what he hath said but do you observe what you will upon it when you come to make your Defence Stranger A Gentleman below desires you to call Mr. Yates Colledge Pray Sir what do you know concerning Dugdale Mr. Yates I know that Mr. Dugdale sent for me to a Coffee-house to bespeak a Pistol for you and told me that when I had made the Pistol I should deliver it to Mr. Colledge and Mr. Dugdale promised to pay for it when I had done it Now some time after I did some small matter for Mr. Dugdale cleaned his Pistols or some small business and Mr. Dugdale asked me if I would drink a pint of wine which I agreed to and being at the Tavern Mr. Dugdale asked me if Mr. Colledges Pistol were done I told him no it was not as yet So I asked Mr. Dugdale because he had promised to give Mr. Colledge a Pistol what obligation there was betwixt Colledge and him that he should give him a Pistol to which he answered that Mr. Colledge had been serviceable to him in lending him a pair of Pistols to ride withal sometimes So he gave him a Pistol to satisfie him for the wearing of his Pistols now and then I thought said I Mr. Colledge did impose upon your good nature too much not but that I believe Mr. Colledge is a very honest man and stands up for the good of the King and the Government Yes said Mr. Dugdale I believe he does and I know nothing to the contrary Mr. Att. Gen. When was this Mr. Yates A little after the Parliament sat at Oxford for I never knew Mr. Colledge before Mr. Dugdale set me a work for him Colledge Mr. Yates pray was there nothing in the Coffee-house about one that he asked to go with him when he said he knew nothing against me Mr. Yates I heard one say Mr. Serj. Jefferies You must speak your own knowledge you must not tell a tale of a Tub of what you heard one say Mr. Yates I heard it affirmed Mr. Serj. Jefferies But by whom Mr. Yates By a person in the Coffee-house Mr. Serj. Jefferies Who was that person Mr. Yates By one of the Servants of the House L. C. J. That is no Evidence at all if you know any thing of your own knowledge speak it Mr. Serj. Jefferies Is he here Mr. Yates No I think not Mr. Just Jones How long do you think must we sit here to hear other peoples stories L. C. J. If you know any thing of your own knowledge I say speak it Mr. Att. Gen. Pray let me ask you that question again When was this that he said he believed he was an honest man Mr. Yates It was about three weeks after the Parliament sat at Oxford Colledge Then he does me wrong now for if I were an honest man then it cannot be true that he says of me L. C. J. Who do you call next Colledge Pray my Lord who hath been Sworn against me L. C. J. There is Stephen Dugdale John Smith Bryan Haynes Edward Turbervile Sir William Jennings and Mr. Masters Colledge Call Mr. Clayton My Lord at his House it was I lay in Oxford and that Dugdale says I spake some of the Treasonable words pray Sir do you know what time I came to Oxford Mr. Clayton I remember it very well it was at the time the Parliament sat at Oxford about two or three days after it began Colledge Pray what Arms did I bring to your house Sir Mr. Clayton As to the matter of Arms there was no other but a Sword and a pair of Pistols a pair of Pistols in his Holsters and his Sword by his side Mr. Att. Gen. Was there no Silk Armor Mr. Clayton I saw none if it please you such a thing might be Colledge My Lord I continued at his house from my coming in to my going out and that was till after the Parliament was Dissolved and I came after they were sat but heark you Mr. Clayton Mr. Dugdale says he was with me at your house did you ever see him there Mr. Clayton I remember I have seen Dugdale at my house but never in your company Colledge Did you sell any Mum Mr. Clayton No I never did sell any in my life Colledge Because he says we had Mum there Mr. Clayton I never saw him there with you nor changed any word with him as I know of L. C. J. Was he never in the Company of Colledge at your house Mr. Clayton Not that I saw Mr. J. Jones You don't know all the Companies that come into your house Colledge My Lord I am told there are some that came from the Town where I was born that know me and have known me for twenty four or twenty five years together if you think that material for me to prove whether I am a Protestant or no. L. C. J. If you will make out that you may But 't is your Loyalty that is in question If you will produce any that can make it appear that you use to honour the King in your discourse or so that is something Colledge If I am a Protestant then the design is plain these men Swear to make a Protestant Plot and turn the Plot off the Papists Mr. Serj. Jefferies What Church do you frequent in London to hear Divine Service Colledge I have received the Sacrament several times Sir George Mr. Serj. Jefferies When were you last at the publick Church Colledge I hope I may be a Protestant if I have not gone thither but however I do use to go to Church L. C. J. Well call whom you will Colledge Is Thomas Deacon there Mr. Deacon Yes Colledge He lives my Lord in the Parish where I was born If you please Mr. Deacon to give my Lord an account what you know of me from my Childhood Mr. Deacon I have known Mr. Colledge ever since he was a youth he was born in the Town where I live L. C. J. Where is that Mr. Deacon At Watford a Town in Hertfordshire There he lived till he was a man and Married a Neighbours Daughter of mine and lived there while he had two Children I never knew but that he was a very honest man frequented and kept to the Church of England all
a great deal of damage to his Goods Gentlemen said I I suppose you have Order to search but none to spoil a mans Goods When they were gone having found none they threatned God dam them they would have them for there they were But I being ignorant of the concealment of the papers I requested the Maid and my Brothers Son whether they knew of any papers and they satisfied me they knew of some prints that were brought by a Porter to be left at my Brothers but they knew not whence they came nor what they were and the same answer gave my Brothers Son that he did not know whose the papers were But since his Fathers Confinement they were laid up sure and safe for they knew not what they concerned Upon this my Lord my Brother-in-law George Spur he comes into the house and if it please your Honour I requested him to carry them into the Countrey to his house to secure them till we knew what they did concern and who they did belong to Whereupon he replyed my Lord That he was fearful to carry any thing out of the house said I If you will please to take them of me I will carry them out of the house for your security because his Wife looked every hour being with Child when she should be delivered and he was fearful of troubling her So I carried them out of the house and delivered them to him L.C.J. To whom Mrs. Goodwin To my Brother-in-law Mr. George Spur. So at my going out after I had delivered them to him in my way back again I found a small paper-Book and a small parcel of Writings who dropped them or who laid them there I cannot tell But taking them up unadvisedly I put them among the prints which I carried out I delivered them to my Brother-in-law This is all I have to say as to the papers Stevens Three parts of what she hath said is false Mr. Serj. Jefferies Well hold you your tongue Stevens Mr. Atterbury is here my Lord that searched the house Atterbury Be pleased to give me my Oath I will tell you what passed Mr. Att. Gen. We don't think it material but you were Sworn before stand up L.C.J. Tell the manner of finding the papers This woman gives us an account of a Waterman that came in pretending to fetch shavings Atterbury Upon my Oath it was not so The Waterman was a Waterman that brought me and two more of my Fellows and the Waterman followed us into the yard but came after us and being ordered to look for papers I did search the House for I had Intelligence that there were papers there but I did not find them there But upon finding the first papers I made the more diligent search but could not find the rest I most chiefly sought after Mr. Serj. Jefferies Did the Kings Waterman take any shavings by himself Atterbury We were all together we did not move out of any one Room but together this Gentlewoman was in the house when I came and there was a little Child a Girl and this Maid was there Mr. Serj. Jefferies Did you come for shavings there pray Mr. Atterbury Atterbury No I did not Mrs. Goodwin The Waterman did though first Colledge Call George Spur. But he did not appear But Mr. Atterbury before you go down pray tell the Court did you take any of these papers at my house or at my Brother-in-law Spurs house Sewel My Lord I took the papers and I took them at Bushy at Spur's house And this woman carried out one half to Spur and the Maid carried out the other L. C. J. When did he carry them Mrs. Goodwin The same day they searched for them for my Brother came in at the same time L. C. J. How do you know Spur carried any away Mrs. Goodwin He carried none out of the house I carried them out of the house and delivered them to him L. C. J. Then they were in your house Mrs. Goodwin They were in the Counting-house Colledge My Lord If they were in any other place I know not how they came there for this was all done after I was a Prisoner and Sewel says they were removed when I was a Prisoner Where is George Spur Mr. Serj. Jefferies It is admitted they were at your house and taken thence and afterwards carried to Spurs Colledge They carried them abroad and handed them from one to another and took them into the Countrey I know not what they did with them but my Lord I neither know the Printer nor the Author I declare it upon my life L. C. J. Have you any more Witnesses Colledge No my Lord I have not L. C. J. Will you that are of Counsel for the King call any more Mr. Att. Gen. One or two if you please my Lord. Call John Shirland And it is to this purpose it seems very lately Mr. Bolron would have tempted him to have forsworn himself Colledge My Lord I hope if they bring in any persons of new Evidence I may have leave to contradict them L. C. J. You need not fear but you shall be heard to them Mr. Att. Gen. We shall prove Bolron to be a Suborner of Witnesses and that the Jury may know what he is he and Mowbray have gone to give Evidence at several Trials and the Jury would never believe them when they were on their Oaths Mr. Serj. Jefferies I think it needs not time hath been spent enough already Colledge No whispering good my Lord. Sir G. Jefferies Good Mr. Colledge you are not to tell me my duty here Mr. Just Jones Is it not lawful for the Kings Counsel to confer together Colledge Not to whisper my Lord all ought to be spoken out L. C. J. Nothing ought to be said to the Jury indeed privately Mr. Att. Gen. But shall not we talk among ourselves Colledge No I hope not of any thing that concerns my Tryal Mr. Just Jones You are deceived in that Colledge I think 't is Law that all ought to be publick I beg your pardon if I am in the wrong Mr. Att. Gen. Swear John Shirland which was done Pray give the Court and the Jury an accompt of Bolron what you know of him Shirland Bolron my Lord last Whitson-Tuesday would have given me ten pound and an horse to go down and Swear against Sir Miles Stapleton I was to Swear I was Suborned by his friends and several other persons which I have discovered upon my Oath L. C. J. Is this man Sworn Mr. Att. Gen. Yes L. C. J. Now call Bolron to confront him Colledge He offered you an Horse as much as I offered Turbervil an Horse and I never offered him an Horse in the world Then Bolron appeared L. C. J. Is this the man Shirland Mr. Att. Gen. Did he give you Ten pound to Swear Shirland He bid me Ten pound and an Horse to Swear against Sir Miles Stapleton Mr. Just Jones Did you ever see him Bolron Mr. Bolron Yes my Lord
do not put a trick upon us This may be a trick of the Papists to ruine us and if they have such a designe if they will not put it upon you and I they are fools Upon your Lordship said I they may but I am a poor inconsiderable fellow Says my Lord I 'll tell you Mr. Godfrey Mr. Colledge hath not onely been an honest man but an useful and an active man for the Protestant interest So I told my Lord how far I had gone with him and that I desired it might be put in Writing Says my Lord Shaftsbury If he will put it in Writing I will go once again for I have been since I saw the Fellow with my Lord Macclesfield and my Lord Chief Justice Pemberton and my Lord Chancellor and I have told them that there is such a person in general but I knew not the man as indeed my Lord did not for onely Ivy was the person between them that my Lord knew And I told them says my Lord that he can confirm all that Fitz-harris has said concerning the death of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey and that he would prove my Lord of Danby was in it if he might have his Pardon and my Lord said They promised to speak to his Majesty that it might be granted But some time the latter end of the week I heard it would not be granted and both of these men followed me to know what they should do Said I My Lord Shaftsbury knows not but that it may be a Trick and said I to Ivy I wonder why he should conceal it all this while being a necessitous man and 500 l. proffered by the King in his Proclamation Why says Ivy do you think there is no truth in it says I 'T is not my Judgment but my Lord Shaftsbury and Mr. Godfrey's Judgment too He answered me again Fitz-harris hath desired he may have a Pardon granted for himself and a Frenchman and if so be there were nothing in it Do you think he would move for a Pardon Says I Did Mr. Fitz-harris move for Haynes Pardon How do I know that says Ivy again Fitz-harris's Wife told me so Says I Let me speak with Fitz-harris's Wife let me hear her say so and I will believe you The next day he did bring her to me to my house And this was the time and the occasion that brought Fitz-harris's Wife and Haynes and Ivy and Mr. Fitz-harris's Maid to my house and I never saw Fitz-harris in my days till his Trial nor had any Communication with him But my Lord she did talk with Haynes and confirmed it to me That her Husband had desired a Pardon for him Why then said I he would do well to discover what he knows to my Lord Shaftsbury for I was with my Lord and he says he will meddle no more unless he will give it under his hand what he has to say And he did confess to me in my own Yard for there we were together That he saw my Lord of Danby come into the Chappel at Sommerset-House when the Body of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey lay under the Altar L. C. J. Here hath been nothing of this made appear by proof Colledge My Lord I onely tell you which way they introduced themselves into my Acquaintance L. C. J. You may observe what you will upon the Evidence as we told you but you ramble from the matter you are to speak to And as we told Mr. Attorney that what he said should go for nothing unless he made it out by proof so must we say to you what you say goes for nothing further than you have proved it Now you have quitted the Proof quite and not spoke to that but run into other stories I would have you keep your self to your Proofs and make your Observations upon them Colledge 'T is as I humbly conceive it to my purpose but I hope my ignorance may excuse me if I erre I tell you the truth of things thus it was L. C. J. Truth Why if yours or any man's word in your case should go for truth no man that stands at a Bar could be convicted for every man will say he is an honest man and all the plausible things in the world Make you your Observations upon the Proof that is proper for you to do and urge it as well as you can and to the best purpose you can but to tell us long stories of passages between you and others that are not a whit proved that is not usual nor pertinent Colledge I thought it had been to the point when this man pretends to have a familiarity with me to shew how his Acquaintance begun Mr. Just Jones Why do you think 't is an Answer to him in what he proves upon his Oath Have you proved one jot of it not that I have heard 'T is your part to sum up the Evidence on your own side and to answer that which is proved upon you if you can Do that and we will hear you speak to it as long as you can But to tell stories to amuse the Jury with that are not proved and to run out into rambling discourses to no purpose that is not to be allowed nor never was in any Court of Justice Mr. Just Raymond Not one of your Witnesses have mentioned any thing that you say Mr. Just Levins I wonder Mr. Colledge you should forget your self so much for you found fault with Mr. Attorney at the beginning for opening the Evidence and you were told and the Jury were told at your request that what he said and did not prove passed for nothing But I must tell you 't is much worse in your case for Mr. Attorney onely opened what he might prove afterwards but your Observations are upon what hath been proved already and yet you run out into stories of what hath not been proved at all after your Proof is past Colledge Sir I could not prove this otherwise than by Ivy who hath been sworn against me Mr. Just Jones Would you have the Jury to believe you upon your word Colledge There is no more than his Oath against me and why my Oath being an English-man and a Protestant should not be taken as well as his that is an Irish-man and hath been a Papist I know not L. C. J. You go upon that ground that your word is to be taken as appears by your defence but I must tell you all the course of Justice were destroyed and no Justice against Malefactors were to be had if the word of him that is accused should pass for proof to acquit him Colledge My Lord I have given your Lordship an account of these fellows Conversations and what other Proofs to make I know not for I knew not what they would swear against me and I had not Witnesses in my Pocket to confront them Mr. Just Levins Well the Jury have heard it over and over again first upon your request that nothing is to be taken notice of that
Let Mr. Masters stand up again Colledge Pray Sir relate the whole discourse that passed between you and I whether I did not argue with you it was not the Parliament cut off the Kings head nor begun 〈◊〉 War but the Papists Mr Masters No you did not say any such thing We had a great deal of discourse in the Shop and under the Arch and the thing that was said Mr. Colledge was this You did say to me that you did justifie the late long Parliament of 40 and their proceedings and you said they were a Parliament that did nothing but what they had just cause for said I how can you be so impudent to say so when they raised the Rebellion against the King and cut off his head said he again they did nothing but what they had just cause for and the Parliament that sat last at Westminster were of the same opinion Mr. Just Jones I did you no wrong in repeating the evidence you see Mr. Colledge Colledge Did I not first dispute with you that they did not begin the War nor cut off the King but the Papists did it Mr. Masters Look you Mr. Colledge you would have had it the King began the War Colledge Don't you say so for I said the Papists began the War Sir say no more to me than what you will answer to God Almighty for I always said the Papists did all the mischief in the late times and I wonder Sir you would not be so just to his Majesty as to detect me for what I said then if you apprehend it to be as you now say but I am sure you did not nor could not Mr. Masters Mr. Colledge it was so far from that that I was afraid it was of dangerous Consequence and I gave some Persons of Honour an accompt of it and I was sent to but on Friday last to know what it was was said and I was desired and commanded to come down hither Colledge Pray Mr. Masters you are upon your Oath do me but Justice and speak upon your own Conscience look you to it that you speak the truth Mr. Masters I will do you all the right I can in the World Colledge Then before the Court do you declare whether we did not discourse at that time as I said for this discourse was at Mr. Charlton's shop at the further end Mr. Masters No it was at the entrance into the shop Mr. Colledge and did not we go into the Arch and talk there Mr. Serj. Jefferies Mr. Masters don't trouble your self your Reputation is not upon the Level with that Gentlemans Colledge I desire he may speak the very truth and nothing but the truth Mr. Masters I do as near as I can and do you no wrong you did not in your discourse say the Parliament did not begin the War nor cut off the King's Head Colledge You did say to me they did cut off the King's Head and I told you no the Papists did Mr. Masters I think you did say that the Papists had an hand in it but Sir you have left out the most material part of our Discourse which was that you said they did nothing but what they had just cause for Colledge I do say and it was my sence always That the Parliament did not cut off the King's Head for they were long out of doors before that came to pass and a new unhappy War was begun L. Ch. Just The War was a Rebellion on the Parliaments part let us not mince the matter and so it was declared by Act of Parliament and if you argued after that rate it shews your temper and that you are a very ill man for they that justifie such things as to the time passed would lead us to the same things again if they could Therefore don't go about to palliate it ad faciendum populum here 't is nothing to the matter but only to shew your Principles and the Jury have heard what Mr. Masters says Colledge I was then a Child and do not know all the passages but I speak my sence L. Ch. Just You should not have justified such things Mr. Just Jones Who appointed the High Court of Justice that tryed the King and condemned him but the Parliament Mr. Just Levinz It was the Garbage of that Parliament I am sure that is the Rump but they called themselves the Parliament of England and the Parliament it was that begun the War Colledge My Lord I did not know nor don 't know that it is proved yet that the Parliament were those that did cut off the King's Head I don't know Mr. Masters is pleas'd to say this of me but I thought no evil nor did he understand it so I believe at that time for he did not seem to take advantage of my Discourse I know he talked violently and passionately with me as he used to do and for Mr. Masters to say this of me now is a great unkindness for I thought he was so much a Gentleman that if I had spoken any thing that had not become me he would have taken notice of it then Mr. Serj. Jefferies He did then he tells you Colledge Had I known of it I am sure Mr. Charlton would have done me justice and set things right but this I say I did first excuse the Parliament from being concerned in the Murder of the King or that they did begin the War but the Papists did it If it were otherwise it was more than I understood and after that I said I thought that the Parliament that sate last at Westminster did stand up for the Peoples Rights after the same manner that the Parliament in 40. did Mr. Just Jones What just after the same manner in raising War and Rebellion against the King Colledge After I had discoursed it thus my Lord as I told you it could not be understood that I thought that Parliament would cut off the King's Head And therefore you that are my Jury pray consider and take it all together there could be no such meaning made of my words for I did not conceive that that Parliament were concerned in those things but were a Parliament that stood up for the Rights of the People Now if it were so then the Parliament at Westminster were of the same opinion L. Ch. Just I tell you the Long Parliaments levying War is declared Rebellion by Act of Parliament Colledge My Lord if there hath been an Act since that says they were guilty of Rebellion I declare it 't is more than ever I knew before This is the first time that ever I heard of it Mr. Serj. Jefferies You are a mighty learned Gentleman to talk of those points indeed Colledge My Lord I desire to know whether any words that were spoken 6 months before they gave in their Depositions can be a sufficient Evidence in Law against me now L. Ch. Justice 'T is upon the Act of the 13th of this King you speak Colledge Yes My Lord I take
advised him to Arme himself whether he prepared them against that time or no is not material if he had them before and if he had them first innocently yet if he afterwards designed them for such a purpose and shewed them in a readiness for it that is a sufficient Evidence to prove this Treason So here are two Witnesses you observe against the Prisoner of this matter that is laid against him in the Indictment an intent to kill the King they both prove it positively upon him at Oxon. Mr. Dugdale speaks to matters precedent to for he tells you his discourse before they came down that they would come down for that purpose that they had an expectation some thing would be done and therefore he came down in an Equipage not suitable to his profession for you see he was by Trade a Carpenter or a Joyner but Armed on Horseback with a Case of Pistols things that don't become such men to Travel with and he did declare to Mr. Dugdale for what purpose he came down The next Witness is Mr. Smith and Mr. Smith is as positive and full to this matter of Treason as any of the rest Colledge There is scarce a Carpenter or a Joyner in London but hath Pistols when he rides L. Ch. Just Mr. Colledge We must not suffer this We had so much patience with you that we expect you should be quiet now and not interrupt the Counsel Colledge My Lord Let me not be overborn upon there is scarce a Poulterer in London but what hath Pistols Mr. Sol. Gen. We had great patience with you Mr. Colledge and did not interrupt you I am sure but let you say what you would I think I do you no wrong if I do I am under the Correction of the Court they will reprove me if I do that which does not become me Mr. Just Jones Did not you ramble I don't know how and yet you were suffered to go on Mr. Sol. Gen. He tells you of a discourse as he came from the Coffee-house to go to a Dinner whither he was invited by Alderman Wilcox and the discourse was That the King was as great a Papist as the Duke and much more to that purpose vilifying the King That Alderman Wilcox was a man that gave Money to buy Armes to bring the King to submission He objects against this and says 't is impossible such a discourse should be and that all this should be talked in so little a time as in passing from the Coffee-house to the Crown-Tavern without Temple-Barr Colledge Pray remember whose Company it was proved I went in Mr. Solicitor Mr. Sol. Gen. But Gentlemen when you consider how busie a man he was and how ready at talking of Treason you will not think but that this man might talk much more than this but this I mention to do him right it being one of the Arguments he used and to give an Answer to it tho' when you consider it I believe you will think it not to need an Answer But I would do him all the right I can and now you have heard it you will consider the weight of it Gentlemen he tells you of another discourse afterwards that does relate to his being here at Oxon he tells you he had Armes in his house and was ready upon all occasions and he shew'd Mr. Smith his Armes and told him these were the things that were to destroy Rowley's Guards as he said which by the Evidence is made to appear he meant the King by that name his Armes he said were for that purpose That he would go down to Oxon and there he expected some sport I know not what sport he thinks there is in Rebellion you see what principles he is of that does maintain and justifâ—e the greatest and horridest Rebellion that ever was in England and says they did nothing but what they had good cause for He tells Smith that he thought the King would seize upon some Members and with that expectation he came down but he was as ready as the King and would be one in the securing of him if he medled with any of the Members This proof Mr. Smith made and that after the Parliament was dissolved he said that the King ran away and was very much afraid This is proved by Smith likewise and this Colledge did declare after he came to Town Smith proves further That he did wonder the King did not consider how easily his Father's Head was brought to the Block and for Mr. Colledge's part he did declare that he did believe this King would be served so shortly And this does confirm what his other Witnesses have spoken of his words at Oxon. Thus then there are three Witnesses tho' two are enough to convict a man if they be positive to the Treason Mr. Haynes is the 4 th Witness and he is as full as any of them I do but repeat it in short you have had it so often canvassed by Colledge that I believe you will easily remember it He did advise Haynes that he should not value the King at all for the King should be called to account for all his Actions he said he would seize the King and bring him to the Block as they did his Father with an undecent expression of that blessed King not fit to be repeated And he said they did intend when they had cut off him never any more of his Race should Raign this it was Haynes says tho' there are other matters I would take notice of one thing more and I need not but mention it you will remember it and that is about the Libel of Fitzharris Haynes tells you upon discourse of that Libel he said that every word of it was true as sure as God is in Heaven Now that was a Libel made by a Papist an Irish Papist who hath been Tryed Convicted and Executed for it and the horridest Libel it was that ever was Writ And this is the Libel which this Gentleman who is so very conversant in Libels and Books of that sort avers to be as true as God is in Heaven This is the substance Gentlemen of that proof which hath been made to you we have other Circumstances to prove that as he came down with that intent to seize the King and as he expected what he calls some sport so he did endeavour to begin the sport he did quarrel in the Lobby of the House of Lords with Fitz Gerald some blows passed and Sir William Jennings telling him his Nose bled he did declare I have lost the first blood in the Cause but it will not be long before there be more lost Thus after he had come down he endeavoured to begin a Commotion for from little matters great things do sometimes arise and when all men were possest with an Expectation such as he himself did declare he and others came down with an expectation that the Parliament should be attacked a little matter might have begun such a
came to London the 27th These are Circumstances Gentlemen that you must weigh and you may bring the North and the South together as soon as their two Testimonies they are so far asunder Besides Gentlemen I hope you take notice of a person that was sworn a person of some quality a Scholar in the University here that says Balron though he denied it did shew him one of these Pictures and did discover they were Mr. Colledges and Balron himself his own Witness tells you that he did acknowledge one of those Pictures was his It appears then how busie he was and concerned himself in what belonged not to his Profession So that upon the whole matter after this long Evidence that hath been given I must wholly appeal to your Lordship and the Jury as to the Law to your Lordship and the Court and as to the Fact to the Jury for I do not desire any sort of Evidence should be strained against a Prisoner at the Bar who is there to be tryed for his Life God forbid if he be Innocent but he should be acquitted but on the other side consider the Murder of that great King of ever blessed memory is before you and remember that base reflection which the Witnesses tell you of upon that horrid Action and as a great Evidence remember that seeming Vindication of it at the Bar which certainly no English man no Protestant according to the Church of England can hear without having his Bloud stirred in him And these things are not only testified by Dugdale and Smith but by Gentlemen of known reputation and quality and he hath a little discover'd himself by that defence he hath made against their Testimony But know Gentlemen that the King is concerned your Religion is concerned that Plot that is so much agreed to by all Pretestants is concerned for if Dugdale Smith and Turbervile be not to be believed you trip up the heels of all the Evidence and discovery of that Plot. Then I will conclude to you Gentlemen and appeal to your Consciences for according to the Oath that has been given to you you are bound in your Consciences to go according to your Evidence and are neither to be inveigled by us beyond our proof nor to be guided by your Commiseration to the Prisoner at the Bar against the proof for as God will call you to an account if you do an injury to him so will the same God call you to account if you do it to your King to your Religion and to your own Souls L. Ch. Justice Gentlemen I shall detain you but a little and shall be as short as I can for your patience has been much exercised already It is a burden and a necessary one that lies upon us all for there is nothing more necessary than that such Tryals as these should be intire and publick intire for the dispatch of them and publick for the satisfaction of the World that it may appear no man receives his Condemnation without Evidence and that no man is acquitted against Evidence Gentlemen there are these two Considerations in all Cases of this nature the one is the force of the Evidence the other is the truth of the Evidence As to the force of the Evidence that is a point in Law that belongs to the Court and wherein the Court is to direct you as to the truth of the Evidence that is a question in Fact arising from the Witnesses and must be left upon them whereof you are the proper Judges As to the force of the Evidence in this Case it must be consider'd what the Charge is it is the compassing the death of the King and conspiring to seize the Person of the King which is the same thing in effect for even by the Common Law or upon the interpretation of the Statute of the 25th of Edw. 3. that mentions compassing the death of the King to be Treason it hath always been resolved That whosoever shall imagine to depose the King or imprison the King are guilty of imagining the death of the King for they are things that depend one upon another and never was any King deposed or imprisoned but with an intention to be put to death they are in consequences the same thing Now Gentlemen in Cases of Treason the Law is so tender of the Life of the King that the very Imagination of the heart is Treason if there be any thought concerning any such thing but then it must be manifested by some Overt-act upon the Statute of the 25th of Edw. 3. but upon the Statute of the 13th of this King made for the preservation of the King's person if it be manifested by malicious and advised speaking 't is sufficient This is as to the Charge and as to the Law concerning that Charge I must tell you there must be two Witnesses in the Case Now then for the force of the Evidence the question will arise there whether this Evidence admitting it to be true is sufficient to maintain the Indictment so that if there be two Witnesses you must find him Guilty Now as to this Gentlemen the Prisoner has before-hand called upon the Court and had their resolution and I hope you will remember what hath been said and I shall have occasion to trouble you the less There have been six Witnesses produced for the King there are two of them Sir William Jennings and Mr. Masters that are some way applicable to the Case though they do not go to the Treason they are only to inferr the probability of the Treason This of Sir William Jennings was upon the occasion of the bleeding of the Prisoners Nose after his quarrel with Fitz-Gerald when he said He had lost the first bloud and it would not be long e're there would be more lost which shews there were some extraordinary thoughts in his heart concerning some divisions quarrels and fighting that he expected should be That which Mr. Masters has said besides what he offered concerning his Principles in justifying the Long Parliament was this that when he called him Colonel Marry mock not said he I may be a Colonel in time that shews some extraordinary thoughts were in his heart Colledge Will not that bear a more favourable interpretation my Lord Must that necessarily follow upon my saying I might be a Colonel in time and that more bloud would be lost if I had expressed it so L. Ch. Justice I say you had some extraordinary thoughts in your heart Colledge I am sure the fittest to explain my own thoughts L. Ch. Justice You would have done well to have explained it which way you expected to be a Colonel Colledge It was not an expectation for a may be may not be my word was mocking is catching I thought he had called me Cozen. L. Ch. Justice Well Gentlemen these are Witnesses I say that go not to the Treason but only relate and reflect somewhat to shew there were thoughts in his heart but no body could