seeketh after miracles and though Miracles should be given they who will not beleive the testimony of the Spirit of God in their consciences bearing witnesse to the truth will not also beleive becaus of Miracles as wee see plainly in the Jewes And whereas thou sayest Iohns immediate call is evident by the special predictions both of Malachy and Isayas concerning him So are there many speciall predictions concerning the Lord his pouring forth of his Spirit upon many in these latter dayes to prophecy or minister as the Spirit should putt words into their mouths And as for these Scripturs Tit. 1. 5. Ast. 14. 23. which thou bringst in the Fifth place they prove not that those Elders had not the Authority and call of the Spirit of God in themselves And whereas in the Sixth place thou sayest though Ministers be set apart and ordained by men yet their Ministry is not from men but from God I answer where the inward call and Authority of the Spirit of God is not witnessed it cannot be said to be of God And though Moses be said to consecrate Aaron yet it doth not follovv that Aaron had no immediat call from God Seventhly thou sayest The ministry is so necessary that it is the will of Iesus Christ that it should continue unto the end of the VVorld Eph. 5. 12. 13. But thy proofe from that Scripture is altogether impertinent as to you vvho believe not that the Saints can be perfected in this life seeing the Ministry is given for the perfecting of them And that this perfection is on Earth is clear from the follovving verse That hence forth wee be no more as Children tossed to and fro for in the other life there is no hazard of being so tossed And if the Ministry perfected not men in this life it no where perfecteth them for in the other life it hath no operation upon them The Law and Priesthood therof was abolished becaus it made nothing perfect and if the Gospell Ministrie should not make perfect it should also be abolished And seeing your Ministrie perfecteth not it is not the true Ministrie of the Gospell as indeed it is not for it standeth not in the power of God nor is it exercised in the will motion of God your Ministrie being such that the whole ESSE or BEING of it may be without saving grace or true holines you expresly affirming that holines is not necessary to the being of a Minister but that a man may be a Minister of the Gospell who ought to be received and heard though hee have not the least graine of holines Eighthly thou sayest they who cast off the Ministerie of the word wrong their owne soules c. Ansvv. if it be understood of the Ministry of Christ it is granted but of yours it is denyed In the Fifth place Pag. 44 Thou vvouldst prove that the Lords people are under a tye engagement to keep the first day of the vveek for a Sabbath For a First Reason thou sayest the Fourth commandement requires the keeping holy of one day of seven but as it requires the observation of one day of seven so it expresly instanceth that day to be the seventh vvhich day yee keep not vvherfor as to the Second Reason If the command be morall and perpetuall as thou callest it it ought to be kept in every point of it vvhich yee not doing therein condemne your selves but the outvvard Sabbath or the keeping one day of the vveek for a Sabbath is not perpetuall but abolished together vvith the new moons and other feasts of the Jevves see Coloss. 2. 16. 17. Let no man judge yâ—u in meat or drink or holy day or new moone or sabbath dayes which are a shadow of things to come See also Rom. 14. vvhich plainly holds forth all dayes under the Gospel to be alike and said Paul to the Galathians yee observe dayes c. I am afrayd of you For a Third Reason thou sayest that Iesus Christ plainly intimates the continuance of a Sabbath becaus that speaking of the desolation of Ierusalem he said pray â—hat your flight be not in the winter nor on the Sabbath day Ansvv. but that Sabbath day is neither here nor else vvhere said to be the first day of the vveke The Jevves vvere to fly at that time and Christ holds forth their difficulties that it should be grievoâ—s unto them to be put to it to fly on their Sabbath day or be killed For they kept it in the strictnesse of it but as for any of your Sabbath keepers they are not so strait-laced but they will doe lesse necessary things then to fly from a danger on that day And as the outward Jew deâ—ireth that hee may not be putt to fly on his outward Sabbath so the inward Iew in Spirit desireth much more that hee may keep his Sabbath which is his Spirituall rest in Christ that the enemy oft seeketh to breake to cause him to fly on his Sabbath day but this to you is a Mistery Viz. what the Sabbath of them who beleive is Heb. 4. 9. 10. There remaineth therfor a Sabbatism to the people of God and hee that is entred into his rest hath ceased from his owne works as God did from his And that this Sabbath or rest is not an outward day is plaine becaus in the next verse hee saith let us labour therefore to enter into that rest But if it were an outward day it might be easily entred into but this is such a rest as none can enter into who hearken not to the voice of the Lord by beleiving and obeying it For a Fourth Reason thou sayest though yee keep not the same day the Iewes did yee have the same authority for keeping your day that they had for theirs Hence this day that wee keep sayest thou is called the Lords day Rev. 1. 10. it being set apart by the Lord for his service and as a Special memorial of his Resurrection Answ. but for all this here is no probation at all but meer assertions If yee have the same Authority produce it and let us see it Iohn was in the Spirit on the Lords day therfor the first day of the week ought to be kept how hangs this together Prove that Iohn meant the first day of the week wee read much in Scripture of the day of the Lord which is the Lords day but no where doe find it called the first day of the week or any other naturall day For it is spirituall and as God called the naturall light day so hee calleth the Spirituall light of his appearance where the Sun of righteousnes ariseth with healing under his wings Day And this is the day of the Lord wherin his people rejoice and are glad And whereas thou sayest it is set apart by the Lord as a Speciall memoriall of his resurrection This is thy naked assertion without any shadow of proofe if thou wilt say that therefore it is to be a holy
voluntary poverty for any one that hath the least knowledge in true mortification may know that wher a mans meat and provision is laid up for him and that there is no care of these things lying upon the mind but a full liberty to live in idlenes which is the Monks case it is an easie thing in selfe-vvill to take on a demure deportement or to wear haircloath or goe barefoot vvhich by custome becoms familiar And truly many of the Commons in Scotland are used to greater hardships then all that and yet are far from having the appearance of Christianity But the matter is for people to be conversant in this VVorld to have their occasions and businesse in it and to have dealing vvith the Spirit of it and yet to keep to the meek lowly simple appearance using it as if they vvere not using it by keeping out of its Spirit and VVay in all manner of Conversation This is to be like unto Christ vvho did not retire himselfe unto a Hermits lodge but conversed among Publicans and sinners Novv let your flocks and the Quakers be compared together in this particular and let the light in all consciences judge vvho are likest to Christ. Secondly to evidence that some different from us have had as much inward feeling thou sayest thou canst tell us of some who have had so much of the feare and dread of God upon their hearts that they durst not adventure upon sin by this thou seemest to grant that there are invvard feelings and enjoyments among the Quakers saying what good is it that you truely feell that persons different from you have not felt And hovv doeth this consist vvith your judging the Quakers fallen into Apostacy and delusion of the devill And that they are possessed vvith the divell can such have invvard feelings and enjoyments of God for my part I am glad to hear that any such have beene vvho have had so much of the fear and dread of God upon their hearts that they durst not adventure upon sin and I should be glad and so I knovv vvould any of the Quakers be glad to meete vvith them But novv such vvho have so much of the fear of God upon their hearts that they durst not adventure upon sin vvold they not love to be perfect vvould they dispute against perfection and conclude it impossible vvould such vvho dare not sin for a vvorld sin every day yea every moment as you say yee doe if they dare not sin vvould they not refrainse from sin and cease from it and vvould they make use of that poor evasion vvhich thou addest that therefore they vvould not vvillingly sin for a vvorld As long as the dread and fear of God remains and stands over the heart sin is shut out and the minds vvill is to fear God and not to Sin Thou canst tell us of others thou sayest who many years lived in the sweet sence of Gods favour and have gone most triumphantly out of the world with strong perswasions of their eternal vvel-being But vvould such have pleaded for continuance in sin Doeth not continuance in sin ecclipse and take avvay the sence of Gods favour and further would such have denyed fellowship with God by immediate revelation as you doe Would they have denyed the immediate teachings of the Spirit as you doe doe not some novv living remember some of them vvho had these feelings and did bear an expresse testimony to the immediate teachings of the Spirit and immediat fellowship vvith God and plainly declared that no preaching was profitable but that vvhich came immediatly from the Spirit and found fault vvith the Ministers that they preached from their study and their books and vvished them to put avvay or burne their books for that they vvere a hurt to them and some of those savv over and beyond and unto the end oâ— your so called ordinance of outvvard bread wine said plainly it vvas but a shaddovv or figure that those vvho vvitnessed the substance had no need of the other though those and some others vvho vvitnessed such invvard feelings and enjoyments of God vver not called Quakers nor had their understandings so clearly opened as to many things as the people called Quakers have yet vvith the same life in some measure they have beene acquainted vvhich is the Quakers way even Iesus Christ who is the way the truth and the life and so as to those examples thou givest which vvas vvitnessed thou sayest some tvventie yeers agoe Wee deny not but that the Lord did appear and vvas near the simple hearted in that day and some vvho are novv among the Quakers remember that day and have a share in those feellings and enjoyments vvhich are novv and in the experience and enjoyment of them can bear a true testimony that the feellings and enjoyments of this day unto those vvho follovv the Lord in his leadings â—â—oe far exceed vvhat vvas in that day and novv the sun is set upon that day for the Lord is calling his people further and those among us vvho had those former feelings can vvitnesse that vvhile they vvould have bâ—ene tasting of that svveetnes and remained still vvith you the Lord vvould not but suffered drynes and barrennesse to come over them and that which sometime had been as a fruitful field to become a barren vvildernesse till they savv that they vvere not to limit him to invented forms but were to forsake those things in his will in which through his indulgence and compassion hee had sometimes appeared unto them and to be found follovving the footsteps of the flock vvhom hee is leading on to a further state in which they find the Lord appearing more gloriously then ever to their refreshment Glory to him for evermore But with you it is otherwise for who among you witnesse these things at this day Yea some of you are so ingenuous as to confesse that yee find not these things now and that this is a cloudy and gloomy day and it shall certainly so continue unto you until yee come and walk with us in the Light of the Lord But becaus yee will not but will confine the Lord in these forms whereunto yee have devoted your selvs therefore is darknes over you and your Prayers are become dry and barren and full of complaints of an absent God And what invvard joy from God any have felt among you we cannot impute it to your way more then what some have felt of refreshment in some other professions and forms can be imputed to their way Pag. 30. Thou sayest It is knowne that wee are enemies to singing of Psalms Baptisme and the Lords Supper and becaus wee say that wee are not against these things therfore thou callest us disingenuous or such as seek to delude People which challenge is false and a calumnie for wee doe indeed owne these things in the true acceptation and meaning of them and in the substance and reality and if wee
day becaus hee rose on it Is not this a faire inlet to all the Popish holy Dayes If yee keep one day for his Resurrection why not one day for his Conception another for his Birth another for the Annunciation of the Ange another for his being crucified another for his Ascension then wee shall not want holy dayes in good store Fifthly thou sayest who oppose the Sabbath day sin against mercy and equity and Iustice. Answ. It is granted bnt who oppose your day which yee have made or imagined to be the Sabbath doe not sin against any of the fore-said if in other things they keep unto the rule of mercy and justice First they sin not against mercy if through all the dayes of the week they be found in that which is for the good of themselves and their neighbours Not laying too heavie burdens upon their owne soules by excessive care and labour in outward things nor yet forcing their bodily strength beyond the rule of mercy and love nor imposing any things upon either servants or cattell contrary to mercy For if the Law required mercy even in these things much more the Gospell so that wee grant times of rest are to be given unto Servants and Beasts and Mercy is to be shewed unto them more then under the Law And thus is the end of the Sabbath answered which was made for man yea this is indeed to keep the Sabbath To undoe every burden and to let the oppressed goe free both as to the inward and the outward And the Lords People have frequent times more then once a week wherein laying aside their outward affairs for a season they may and doe meet together to wait upon the Lord and be quickned and refreshed and instructed by him and worship him in his Spirit And may be useful unto one another in exhortation or admonition or any other way as the Lord shall furnish And such who find any distemper upon their minds through letting them goe forth too much upon outward things may find the Lord allowing them any other day or time no lesse then that to gett their hearts reduced into a right frame And it were sad if the Lord had only allowed but one day of seven unto this effect The Lord inviteth and alloweth the weary and distempered who love to be cured of their â—â—â—â—empers to come unto him every day And as for those who abide not in a due care every day to have their hearts ordered arights but let their minds goe forth excessively in outward occasions all the week they provoke the Lord to shut them out from accesse to him upon the First day And our soules doe oft blesse the Lord in allowing us many times of refreshment and strengthning to the establishing and confirming us in his love and life and disburdening our minds of earthly things much more frequently then in one day of seven And as for sinning against Justice they cannot be charged with it who give up unto the Lord not onely one day of seven but all the seven even all the dayes of their life unto his service for equity and Jâ—stide calleth upon us to spend all the seven in his service that our hearts may continually be exercised in his fear and love and what ever wee doe wee may doe it to him and in him And as for the first day of the week we meet together even on that day as wee doe on other dayes according to the practise of the primitive Christians to wait upon the Lord and worship him but to plead so obstinately as yee doe that the fourth Commandement bindeth to a particular observation of that day and yet to be found so slack in the observation of it as you generally are is such an inconstancie as the Quakers cannot owne And so whereas thou wouldst confine the Lord his giving rest and comfort to the souls of his people and the falling of the Manna to the first dayes calling them spirituall market dayes as if there were no other wee cannot owne it knowing that the Lord giveth rest and comfort every day and causeth the Manna plentifully to fall every day to those that walk in his fear and wait upon him and hee has no such circumscribed Market day as thou dreamest of but that yee I meane the Priests make a Market day of that day So that yee may call it your day as thou sayest Pag. 44. our day wee know wherein you sell and vend your Babylonish commodities and will be forceing and compelling all to come and buy of them or if nor to send you mony whither they receive ought or not or else yee will endevour by the help of the Magistrate to have them punished So that it is made manifest that it is only the inventions of men that wee disovvne and not any of the ordinances of Iesus Christ. Pag. 46. Thou grantest the vvord Originall sin is not found in Scripture and yet thou pleadst for it â—ecaus sayest thou the thing intended by it is contained and expressed in Scripture Ansvv. vvee deny that the thing by you intended is exprest in Scripture to vvit that all inâ—aâ—â—s are sinners before God only for Adams sin and that there are reprobate Infants vvho are sent to hell only for Adams first sine this vvee deny nor doe the Scriptures cited by thee prove it Psal. 51. behold I was conceived in sin But first if this place should prove the Infant guilty of any sin it should be of the sin of its ovvne immediat parents in inquity did my mother bring me forth Novv you say the infant is not guilty of the sin of its ovvne immediate parents but only of Adams and Eva's first sin of vvhich this Scripture speakes nothing 2. it doeth not say I vvas conceived and brought forth a sinner as you vvould have it vvhy make you infants guilty of Adams sin and not of the sins of then immediate parents Novv it is granted that there is a seed of sin derived unto Adams posterity but wee say none become guilty of sin before God until they close with this evil seed and in them who close with it it becoms an origine or â—oâ—intaine of evil thoughts desâ—res words and actions which are their sins vvho close vvith it But that the guilt of Adams first sin lyes at the door of Infants who never actually sinned vvee deny For a Second Proofe thou citest Rom. 5. 12. Alleadging it should be rendred that in Adam all sinned But it is no such matter For the words however they be truly translated can never be so rendred in Adam all sinned The strictest translation of the words is thus upon which all have sinned or in which all have sinned Now if the words be translated Vpon which all have sinned They hold forth hovv that Adam by his sin gave an entrance to Sin in the World and Death by Sin and so upon this occasion all others have sinned to wit actually in their ovvne Persons so
Truth cleared of Calumnies Wherein A Book intituled A Dialogue betwixt a Quaker and a Stable Christian. Printed at Aberdeen and upon good ground judged to be writ by William Mitchell a Preacher neer by it or at least that he had the Cheife hand in it is examined and the disingenuity of the Author in his representing the Quakers is discovered Here is also their case truly stated cleared demonstrated and the Objections of their Opposers answered according to truth Scripture and right Reason By ROBERT BARCLAY Isai. 53 1. Who hath believed our report and to whom is the arme of the Lord revealed Joh 5 39. 40. Yee search the Scriptures because in them ye think to have eternal life and they are they which testify of me and ye will not come unto me that ye may have life Matth 5 11. Blessed are yee when men shall revile you and say all manner of evill against you falsely for my sake Act. 24 13. After the way which they call Heresy so Worship I the God of my Fathers 1 Thess. 5 21. Prove all things hold fast that which is good Printed in the Year 1670. The Preface To the READER READER FOR thy better understanding the matters handled in this treatise I thought fit to premise somewhat by way of Preface and indeed the nature of the thing calleth for it that thou mayest receive a true information concerning the People here pleaded for and so generally opposed but more particularly in the City of Aberdeen that thou mayest understand how the case stands betwixt them and their adversaries in it Know then that after the Lord had raised up the witnesses of this day and had opened in them and unto them the Light and Glory thereof diverse of them at sundry times were moved of the Lord to come into these parts unto the towne of Aberdeen in love to the seed which there was to be gathered but their acceptance for divers ye â—res together was very unsutable For the enemy that had wrought and was exalted in the mystery of inquity to daeken the appearance of this day had prepared and stirred up his Ministers to resist them and their testimony by aspersing them with many grosse Calumnies lyes and reproaches as demâ—nâ—ed distracted bodily possessed of the devill practising abominations under Colour of being led to them by the Spirit and as to their Principles blasphemous denyers of the true Christ of Heaven Hell Angells the Resurrection of the body and day of judgment inconsistant with Magistracy nothing better then John of Leyden and his complices This was the vulgar and familiar language of the pulpits which was for a time received for unquestionable truth till about the yeare 1663. some sober and serious Professors in and about the said Towne did begin to weigh these things more narrowly and find the savour of that life in the testimony of that so much reproached people which some yeares before had stirred in others who were now come to a great losse and decay and this gave them occasion to examine the Principles and wayes of that People more exactly which proving upon inquiry to be far otherwayes then they had been represented gave them a further occasion to see the integrity and soundnesse of that despised People and of their Principles on the one hand and on the other to see the prejudic'd disingenuity and enmity of their accusers In these the Lord caused his word to prosper who were few in number yet noted as to their sobriety in their former way of profession and raised them up to own that People and their testimony and to become one with them now their adversarys finding nothing in these whom the Lord had raised up in these parts whereof to accuse them as to their conversation these Calumnies must bee cast upon strangers living some hundred miles distant where these untruths cannot be so easily disproved but as to these at home the tune must be turned therefor George Meldrum who hath more particulary espoused the quarrel against truth and its followers then any of his Brethren begins to say that it is no wonder to see Quakers forbeare grosse outbreakings for that Hereticks have formerly come as great a length but surely abstinence from grosse outbreakings and a cleane outward conversation is no good Argument against the Quakers so now the clamour is though they have been Professors and that noted ones too and though they be honest in their conversation yet they are deluded and deceived and are deceivers And thus as of old the truth and the witnesses of it have alwayes been reproached by those of the Pharisaical Spirit So now for sometimes they said Christ had a Devill sometimes the Apostles are drunck and other times mad Since these things have thus occurred there hath been no little industry used to suppresse this People by threatnings and persecution on which account divers of our Friends have been cast into Prison and some detained long in of the said towne and also by preaching and writing of which for thy information receive this account There were 30. Queries sent by the Bishop of Aberdeen so called to Alexander Jaffray Also about the same time a paper of 3. or 4. sheets subscribed by G. M. intituled The state of the controversy betwixt the Protestants and the Quakers The 30 Querys were not long after answered by G. K. in respect of A. J. his sicknesse at that time and returned to him from A. J. and sometime afterwards George Meldrum his paper called The state of the controversy c. was answered by G. K. to which papers of G. K. somewhat was premised by A. J. which papers being severall times called for but particularly in a letter from G. M. his own hand to A. J. wherein he intreats for an answer that hee might know as hee said in what things wee did differ or in what things wee onely seemed to differ were sent to him within 9. monthes after the receit of G. M. his papers Before all which a sermon on Purpose was preached by G. M. against the quakers in the ninth month 1666. wherein the summe of both his papers was asserted onely that it was digested in a Pulpit-way and introduced with an insinuating discourse of his pretended kindnesse for the persons of some Quakers and his unwillingnesse to medle with them were it not his office and zeale for the truth did ingage him to it but if it had been so indeed hee would have said no more of them then the truth whereas it is stuffed with lyes which are positively asserted to be the Quakers principles by this pretended Preacher of the Gospel from his chaire of verity so called or rather of falsehood whereas yet G. M. his Papers afore-mentioned were not so much as sent far lesse answered by which according to the words of his owne letter above mentioned he was to receive an understanding of the diffeâ—ences and yet before he received this understanding whilst he was
themseves in this matter To wit Salomons sacrificing at gibion As in many other particulars so in this thou statest the Quakers part but too weakely and faintly yea disingenuously for the light which wee walk according unto and desire to walk according to it for ever is the light of Christ in us and not our light otherwise then by the free gift of God which wee doe freely acknowledge did shine in our hearts in some measure in the tyme wee walked with you though wee did not so know it and gave us some knowledge and discerning of things and begot a measure of integrity and honesty of heart towards the Lord in divers of us and turned the bent of our hearts truly towards him in measure And the Lord countenanced and visited and sometims refreshed us secretly in these dayes with a regard to that measure of integrity he found in us and not becaus of or in respect unto that way of Profession wee then walked in which way was truly a hurt unto us and not advantage and it was not your way which wee walked in with you that the Lord countenanced but the integrity and uprightnes which hee had begot in us and had placed in us as a tender plant and as a root in dry ground under the oppression of your way which burdened it and untill wee were brought out of your way by his arme which drew us his seed and plant in us suffered and was oppressed as a cart with sheafes but after wee were delivered from yout way and turned to the way wee now walk in the seed and plant which suffered came to receive strength and be raised unto life and Dominion as many are witnesses at this day Nor is this thy argument any other but that which which the papists did throw against those who sometymes walked with them in the popish vvay of profession some hundred years agoe vvhen they came out from among them vvhom the Lord visited vvhile they vvere among them and at tymes refreshed them till he brought them forth to vvitnes against them for the Lord hath a people in Babylon and hath his sheep vvhich are scattered on the dry and barren mountains of many sorts and wayes of professions vvho have some tender breathings and desires after him and vvith a regard to his breathing seed in them hee visits them and refresheth them at tymes vvhich yet proves not that they should remaine vvhere they are in Babylon and upon the dry mountains of dead professions and observations For the Call of the Lord is unto them to come out of Babylon and his arme is stretched forth to gather them off from all these hills unto his owne holy hill Mount Zion that they may feed and lye downe with them who were as sheep going astray but are now returned unto the shepherd bishop of their soules Also may not those of the Episcopall forme object the same against those who have left it upon a further discovery and yet its like thou will not deny but some who have beene under the episcopall forme had a measure of integrity to God while under it and with a regard to that the Lord at tym's refreshed them God does not frequently discover his will to his Children all at once nor lead them throughly out of things out of which they are to come in an instant and yet that hee countananceth them in there travel cannot be denied did not the Lord countenance Cornelius before Peter came unto him As appears by Acts 10. 4. And yet this was no argument that Cornelius should not owne the Apostles and Christians and did not the Lord countenance the disciples though even when they wer following him they were ignorant of many things and in some things wrong and whither did not the Lord countenance Luther in his testimony against the Pope as well in the first as in the last steps of it although it appears that when hee first began to preach against indulgences hee intended not such a thing as afterwadrs followed but things opened more and more unto him till they came unto that period they were brought unto befor his death and who of you will say that God did not countenance him from the beginning whilest he held many things which hee himselfe came to see to be wrong and erred very grossly in the matter of Consubstantiation The like may be said of Iohn Husse and others whom you acknovvledge to have beene Martyrs at last thou endest it vvith a question asking vvhither it be safe to leane to the audience of that light vvhich one vvhile sayeth that such a vvay is the vvay of Christ and another vvhile thou must come out of it for it is the vvay of Antichrist To vvhich vvhat is above mentioned ansvvers sufficiently yet further I may easily retort the Question thus upon the most of all the nationall Ministry in Scotland vvho are novv licking up that vvhich they heretofore cryed out against as Antichristian and vvith fire and svvord persecuted those vvho offered to plead for that vvhich novv they both practise and avovv themselfs in Novv as the fault of this cannot be ascribed to the scripturs which is the rule whereby they pretend to be guided so neither can any mans instability that pretends to be guided by the light if any such thing could be showne prove the light a guide not to be followed To prove that Christ is not in all men thou arguest thus Christ is not in all men becaus the Scripture speaks of a being without Christ in the world to which thou addest the Reason the unconverted must needs be without Christ becaus they want the uniting principle vvhich is faith to ansvver that Christ is in them but not in union vvith them thou sayest is a fond distinction becaus the Scripturs vvay of expressing peoples union vvith Christ is by asserting Christ to be in them vvhich thou takest for granted and from thence dravvest thy conclusion but if it be found to be false then the vvhole fabrick Falls to the ground as indeed fals it is For even according to the Scriptures the in being of Christ in men sometimes signifies union and sometimes his existence in them vvorking and operating in them by vvay of reprâ—â—fe and judgment as also by vvay of call and invitation to prepare for union vvith him As appears by the very first Scripture cited by thee Iohn 15. 4. 5. vvhich ansvvers not thy mind For vvee say not that vvhere there is no union fruit can be brought forth unto God but mark the last part of it hovv much it makes against thee vvithout me sayes Christ yee can doe nothing For how becoms an unconverted man a convert but by having Christ to vvork vvith him vvhere does Christ cooperate Does hee not there vvhere the vvork of Conversion is wrought and is not that within So that Christ must needs be in men before they be in union with him whereby the faith may be wrought
looking upon the ground vvhereas if ever thou comest to knovv the Scriptures a right or to confer a right concerning them so as to proffit thou must first come to that silence thou novv so much despisest So that these things very vvell consist though the vvorld may judge othervvayes vvhom thou vvilt have to be judges in the case but in the judgement of those vvho are redeemed out of the vvorld vvee shall be found to put the scriptures in their true place Thou canst not but smile thou sayest that a man of understanding should grant the Scriptures to be a declaration of Gods mind and yet deny them to be Gods VVord for what is a VVord but a declaration of ones mind Ansvv. Here thy lightnes appears vvhich darkens thy understanding if thou must needs smile doe it at thy impertinent reason for though a mans VVord be the declaration of his mind yet every declaration of his mind is not his word for signes may be a declaration of a mans mind without his word and people usually distinguish betwixt a mans VVord and his writ And so though the scripture be a declaration of Gods mind yet it is not his VVord properly nor can those properties which are declared of the VVord belong to the scriptures as hath oft beene demonstrated but to that inward and living VVord as it doth declare it selfe whether in the heart or in the mouth The VVord of God is like unto himselfe spirituall yea Spirit and life and therefore cannot be heard or read with the natural externall senses as the Scriptures can nor does the Scriptures cited by thee as Hosea 1. 1. Ioel. 1. 1. Isaiah 38. 4. Ieremiah 14. 1. prove thy intent For that VVord vvhich came unto the Prophets vvas that from vvhich the scriptures vver given forth vvhich VVord you confesse vvas immediate from God but you say it is ceased to come novv And did not all the Prophets prophecie from Christ the Word Thou mightest ss vvell reason thus that vvhen it is said the Spirit of the Lord came upon such a one or to such a one that therefore the scripture is the Spirit and so deny all Spirit but that vvhich is the Scripture as some doe in other Sects calling the vvritings of the Apostles and Evangelists the Spirit and denying the necessity of any other thing vvhich is abominable deceâ—pt and vvresting of Scriture and that the Prophets declaring their message said thus saith the Lord provs that vvhat God spake in them and through them as the living VVord declared it selfe vvas the VVord of God but not the letter or vvriting And vvhereas thou sayest it is all one to say the scripture saith and God sayeth Answer by vvay of inference and collection it may be said they are one becaus of their agreement yet the living VVord and speech of God is not the scripture more then the sun beame is the shadow â—hough the one agrees vvith the other every one that reads or hears the scriptures read hears not God immediatly now that vvhich God speaks to any or in any immediatly that is only his VVord properly unto them As they vvho only read my Letter cannot be said properly to hear me by VVord of mouth Christ said to the jewes yee have not heard his voice though they heard the scriptures and though the Apostle useth some scriptures out of the old Testament it prove not hee had not the VVord of the Lord speaking them immediatly in him and to him That scripture thou biddest remarke 1 Thess. 2. 13. provs not thy intent neither for the VVord which they heard of the Apostles was that living VVord declaring it selfe through the Apostles which was answered by the same in them who heard they heard Christ of in and through the Apostles does it therefore follow that Christ is the Scripture And lastly Mark 7. 13. Servs thy purpose no more then the rest for the Pharisees in striking at the fift commandement did conesquentially strike at the living inward VVord which gave it forth as those who strucke at any of the Apostles struck at Christ yet none of the Apostles was Christ as nether is the 〈◊〉 as it is outwardly vvritt to speak properly the VVord of God And truly the reason why vvee may not call the Scriptures the VVord of God to speak properly is that people may be directed to that invvard living VVord for by their being so much called the VVord of God they have beene putt in Christs stead and have beene set up as an Idoll in stead of that from whence they came so that to avoid this hazard vvee have putt them in their due place Pag. 14. To prove that it is the mind and VVill of God that the Scriptures should be the Rule thou citest Isay. 8. 20. To the Law and to the testimony c. But it rests to be proved that the Law and testimony vvas not the inward Law and that that Word according to vvhich they vvere to speake vvas not the inward VVord vvhich is said to be in the heart It is observable that to prove this thou bringest Ioh. 7. 49. vvhere the Pharisees say have any of the Rulers or Pharisees beleived in him but this people that know not the law are accursed This place sutes the matter very vvell but makes much against thee For the Pharisees here were crying up the outward Lavv and the knowledge of it averring that the ignorance of it caused the meane people to beleive in Christ. So doe yee novv yee pretend to cry up the Law and say the ignorance of it occasions so many to leave you And as they then were setting the Law above Christ and covering themselves with a zeal for it persecuting him and reviling his followers as ignorants So yee now whilst yee are boasting of your great knowledge in the Law and in the scripture and your high esteeme of them yee are despising crucifying the same Christ in his spirituall appearance and upbraiding his followers now as thâ—y did then as ignorants and contemners of the Law And as to Luk. 10. 26. how readest thou This was spoke to one that was a Lawyer or interpreter of the Law and relyed upon it so Christ spoke this to check him and beside the dispensation of the Law which this Lawyer was under was different from that of the Gospel in this matter as may appear Heb. 8. 10. Againe as for Christ and his Apostles useing the Scriptures for convincing of their opposers so doe wee and yet this proves not that either hee or wee judge them to be the Rule wherby to try all things and Spirits yea even the Spirt of God himselfe Pag. 15. Thou seemest to lay much stresse upon this that it wer impossible for us to prove to a Iew or a Turk that Iesus the Son of Mary is in very deed the Christ without the Scripture But I Answer thee to that easily by what way wilt thou perswade a Turk to believe the Scriptures or
vvhich vvee knovv of it vvee may knovv perfectly Thirdly Thou pleadest for the imperfection and uncleannes of the Saints obedience from Eccles. 7. But that place is not to be understood concerning all men in all states and times There is an earthly unrenewed state and while men are here there is not a just man among them as Rom. 3. ver 10. There is none righteous no not one and there is a heavenly renewed state wherein a Man is borne of God and sinneth not Ioh 3. ver 9. And said the Apostle Let no Man deceive you hee that doth righteousnes is righteous which imports that there are righteous Men who doe good and said the Lord to the Servants that used their talents VVel done good and faithful Servant Matth. 25. ver 21. 23. And that other Scripture thou citest Isai. 64. 6. Servs nothing thy turne For the Prophet sayeth not all our righteousnes which is of thy working in us vvho are Saints is as filthy rags but all our righteousnes vvhich vvee even the best of the Saints can performe of and from themselves are as filthy rags mans best works his best righteousnes which is of and from himselfe is filthines and unrighteousnes before God and hee is to cease from all his ovvne works Hebr. 4. ver 10. And it is plaine that vvhen the Prophet in that place sayeth VVee are all as uncleane and there is none that calleth upon thy name he does understand the multitude of the Jevves vvho generally vvere a carnal People and relyed upon their outvvard observations and did not Worship God in Spirit and in but did not understand it of all and every one among them for hee himselfe did call upon his Name and that the Saints vvere vvashed and cleansed see 1. Cor. 6. 11. But yee are walked are sanctified are justified in the Name of the Lord Iesus and by the Spirit of our God And Ioh. 15. 3. Now yee are cleane through the word which I have spoken to you And Ezekiâ—l 37. 33. At which time I shall cleanse you from all our iniquities I shall also cause the cities to be inhabited Which imports a tyme upon earth vvherein they should be made cleane from all their iniquities And hovv art not thou and you ashamed to affirme that the best vvorks of the Spirit of Christ in his Saints are as a filthy rag Does not the Apostle say that a meek and quiet Spirit is an ornament which is of a great price even in the sight of God hovv then can it be a filthy or menstruous rag A filthy and menstruous rag is good for nothing but must be throwne avvay upon all accounts and if that holynes and righteousnes and meeknes vvhich is of Christ his vvorking in men be as filthy rags then according to your doctrine men should throvv them avvay as being not only unprofitable to justification bâ—t to any other use yea a filthy and menstruous rag men doe hide from the sight of another and doe never vvear it as an Ornament vvhereas the Saints put on the meeke and quiet and sober and righteous Spirit as an Ornament of great price not only in the sight of the Saints but even in the sight of God Pag. 24. Thou pleadst though that the good works of Christ in the Saints are defiled imperfect because the Saints who are subservient instrumentall in them are uncleane and who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane Iob. 14. 4. Answ. It is granted that the Saints are subordinate co workers with Christ but yet it follows not that his works in them aud by them are defiled and though it be said who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane this hinders not but that the Lord can and doth make Cleane those who have beene uncleane and so out of them who are made cleane bring forth cleane things And though every one in whom the work of sanctification is begun be not wholly cleansed but that there may be an uncleane part in them for a time yet there is also a cleane part in them who are in the least measure sanctified and so these who work with the Spirit of Christ work with him according to this cleane part and it is the cleane part in them which hee maketh use of as his instrument and as for the uncleane part it is not to worke vvith Christ but to be chained dovvne and fettered and bound up from working to the end it may be vvrought upon that it may be cleansed and thus by degrees the cleane part encreaseth and the uncleane is diminished till all the uncleannes be vvrought out and vvher the uncleane part is let loose to vvork the pure Spirit of Christ doth never joine in vvorking with it but judgeth and reproveth it and therefore in so far as the uncleane part vvorketh in any that man in whom it worketh is not throughly justified and approved by the Lord but there are who vvitnes the cleansing from all the uncleannes and so as cleane vessels and instruments throughout bring forth cleane things cleane works The example hovv that cleane water passing through an uncleane pipe receivs a tincture of uncleannes hits not the case For the Spiritual VVater is not like the common grosse outvvard VVater vvhich an uncleane pipe can defile but like the fire and the light vvhich though it touch uncleane things cannot be defiled by them Every thing of the Spirit is undefilable as the Spirit is vvhich no uncleane thing can defile And if thou vvert vvel skilled in the outvvard creation thou mightst find an outward water so pure that passing through an uncleane pype shall not be defiled vvith it but if thou knovvest not these earthly things and beleivest them not as Christ said Ioh. 3. 12. How shalt thou believe if vve tell thee heavenly things Pag. 25. Thou chargest us VVith erring grievously in confounding justification and sanctification Answ. Justification is either taken for God his adjudging a man unto eternal Life and in that sence it is not to be confounded vvith Sanctification yet it is not be separated there from for God adjudgeth no man but the sanctified unto eternal life or happines or it is taken for the making a man righteous and then it is all one vvith Sanctification And that thou sayest the vvord is most frequently used in Scripture in that sence of adjudging being opposed to condemnation doth imply thou hast not the confidence to assert that it is alwayes so used as indeed it is not And wheras thou citest Philip. 3. 9. to prove that the choisest Saints upon earth have disclaimed all righteousnes wrought in them by which they chould be justified I say that Scripture provs no such thing and thy observation to prove it is insufficient to wit that the Apostle doth not speake of his righteousnes whilest he was a Pharisee for that he disowned ver 6. 7. for admitting it yet hee was still to deny and disowne the work and
supposeth it night be other wise where he sayeth least preaching the Gospell to others I my selfe become a cast away And though some fall away the dishonour of the foolish builder cannot be cast upon God but upon them who fall away for it standeth very well vvith the wisdome and power of God to suffer them to fall away who knowingly and wilfully depart from the Lord and will not concurre with him in the work as subordinate Instruments but resist him though her invite and call yea draw them The next thou citest is 1. Peter 15. Answ. Such as are so kept by the power of God it is through Faith but as they abide not in that power through Faith but wandâ—r from it they fall and cannot but fall away And as for Ierem. 32. 40. cited by thee it should be translated thus I will putt my fear into their hearts that they may not depart from me so Iunius and Tremellius version or not to depart from me as the Septuagint hath it Now to say that they may not depart is one thing and to say they cannot depart is another Yet where the fear of God coms so to be raised and established in the heart over all wee beleive such cannot depart but every one is not attained to that State where yet the fear of God may have some place And as touching these other Scriptures Ioh. 10. 27. 28. 29. And John 13. 1. and. 1. Iohn 2 19. they speake of those who are come to a through Regeneration who wee doe beleive can never fall away as being be got into the perfect Nature of the elect sheep and Children Nor doth it follow from this that one may be a Child of God to day and a Child of the divell to morrow for these who are once properly the children of God through a true and through regeneration can never become the children of the divel nor be cast out of Gods speciall love that hee beareth to his owne children For to end this matter thou sayest it is safer to question the truth of the graces of those that fall away then the doctrine of the perseverance of the Saints But doest thou looke upon the Quakers as having fallen away if thou doest how comes it that thou bespeakest them in thy Epistle as those who have had reall Grace saying to them did yee attaine to that knowledge of and acquaintance with God which yee have in the use of ordinances and againe yee did run well who did hinder you And againe why should they asperse these ordinances which have beene the means of their conversion Or are these words only a Ioabs kisse by vvhich thou vvouldest kisse the Quakers vvhile in the meane tyme thou hast a svvord hid under thy cloak to strike them thorough under the fifth rib But the Quakers are avvare of thee and having on the armour of God are out of thy reach In the last place Pag. 50. thou undertakest to prove that our errors as thou callest them tend to irreligiousnes and Atheism becaus they tend to take avvay the vvorship due to God but it hath beene heretofore proved that vvee deny not true VVorship but only your idolatrous superstitious worships vvhich cannot truly be called the VVorship of God Our vvay thou sayest tends to irreligiousnes becaus frequently wee goe to meat and come from it vvithout seeking a blessing or returning thanks which is to deny God a part of that Worship vvhich is due to him 1. Tim. 4. 4. 5. Ansvv. to receive the gifts and benefits of God vvith thanks giving and to vvitnes it blessed and sanctified to us by the word and prayer is ovvned by us and to knovv this so vvithout taking off the hat or using of formall speaking of vvords though it be a thing frequently used by us also tends to no irreligiousnes for it is a thing usuall among us vvhen vvee sit dovvne to eat to vvait upon the Lord for some time that vvee may feel his presence and knovv ourselves stated in his fear to vvhich the blessing isâ— and as vvee there stand if any outvvard expressions be required of any then in Gods fear they may utter them and this is to knovv the blessing indeed and to be in the place that is blessed But for people that are conversing out of Gods fear stated in a Light airy Spirit not only many tymâ—s laughing and scoffing but some times even blaspheming presently so soone as the meat cometh to clap off their hats and speake a fevv vvords in a custome and so soone as they have done fall to their former vvork againe is not this Atheisme and irreligiousnes for if such did think of God aright and knovv vvhat it vvere to fear him they vvould be far from addressing themselves in such postures unto him neither could they be so impudent as to expect a blessing from him while they stand in that condition to which the curse is annexed In the second place Pag. 51. Thou sayest Doth not the taking men off from prayer tend to Irreligiousnes and Atheisme Now you teach wee must not pray in private nor in families without an impulse therefore Answ. This is no sound argument to take men off from prayer tends to irreligiousnes is granted but to say that a man cannot nor ought not to pray without the Spirits drawing and motion which you commonly name by impulse a vvord vvhich common people doe not understand hath no such tendency or that it takes any off from prayer truly so called is denied For hath that a bad tendencie which take's men off from such Prayers as are abomination are not true Prayers but hypocritical and deceitful As all such Prayers are that are performed without the help of the Spirit Wee say whosoever can pray to the Lord indeed let them pray wee are not to forbid them but that any can pray without the Spirit that wee deny according to 1. Cor. 14. 15. I will pray with the Spirit c. And Rom. 8. 26. likewise also The Spirit helpeth your infirmities for wee know not what wee should pray for as wee ought Now if wee know not what to pray for without the Spirit how can wee pray without it Paul durst not adventure upon this duty without the assistance of the Spirit yea hee said no man could say that Jesus is the Lord but by the holy Ghost but here an arrogant generation will needs by praying without it which yet is not Prayer and such families where this only is used cannot be truly said to call upon God while such truely may be said so to doe that wait upon the Lord and stand in his fear and bring forth the fruits of righteousnes though they be not so much in the external signification of words which also at times is found in our families as the Lord requireth it and giveth utterance And whereas thou sayest That thou beleivest it will be found that some of us for the space of a whole Yeare have