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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78612	A pretended voice from heaven, proved to bee the voice of man, and not of God. Or, An answer to a treatise, called A voice from heaven, written by Mr. Gualter Postlethwait, an unordained preacher, taking upon him to exercise the pastoral charge, in a congregation at Lewis in Sussex. Wherein, his weakness, in undertaking to prove all protestant churches to bee antichristian, and to bee separated from, as no true churches of Christ, is discovered; and the sinfulness of such a separation evinced. Together with, a brief answer inserted, to the arguments for popular ordination, brought by the answerers of Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici, in their book called The preacher sent. By Ezekiel Charke, M.A. and rector of Waldron in Sussex. Imprimatur, Edmond Calamy.	Charke, Ezekiel.	1658 (1658)	Wing C2069; Thomason E959_5; ESTC R207673	108,343	141

Tabernacle which they were afterwards by Aaron and his Sons and the ordaining of Ministers with impositions of hands by the people and that without Officers now under the New Testament where we have clearly institution and example to declare it to be the Ministers work They proceed to say None of the texts which speak of Ordination limit it to Officers only Let our brethren prove any such limitation else private beleevers may warrantably ordain VVhat Readers did these Brethren think their Book would meet with to urge this reasoning again and again as an argument for popular Ordination They might have considered how easie the proof is Either it is limited to Officers only or committed to others as well as them But it is not committed to others therefore it is limited to Officers only Let them shew by Scripture-precept or example out of the New Testament that it is committed to others else private beleevers Ordaining must needs remain unwarrantable Let them shew private Beleevers warrant as Ministers can theirs We prove it is committed to Officers they cannot prove it is committed to others doth it not then follow that it is limited to Officers only May they not by their way of reasoning as well say that Magistrates as such may ordain Ministers because they are not by name excluded and so screw Erastus his way one pin higher than ever he durst bring it to Nay may they not by this reasoning argue that private beleevers may administer the Sacraments since no place of Scripture doth express the administration of them to be limited to Officers by excluding the people from it These Brethrens Arguments then are not at all conclusive for their purpose The Holy Ghost hath committed Ordination to Ministers and no where to the people for them therefore to act in it is a gross and very sinful usurpation Hence also it will follow that people cannot without sin own unordained persons or such as are ordained only by the People as Ministers of Jesus Christ As these may bee justly charged to run before they are sent as those did Jerem. 23.21 so those may be charged justly as the Israelites about their Kings Hos 8.4 to set up Pastors but not by him and Ministers but he knew not approved not of it Therefore let such supposed Ministers bee humbled for their rash intrusion and seek for Ordination at the hands of Gospel-Ministers And People who have such Pastors urge them to it and upon their refusal and neglect of it let them know that they cannot own them as Ministers of Christ SECT XIII Containing the Author's humble supplication to those in Authority for Reformation SInce notwithstanding the Criminations of the Accuser whom this Book answereth and the several charges from others our Churches remain true Churches of Christ and need not new making but reforming and our Ministry a true Ministry and that it appears that such only are lawful Ministers of Jesus Christ and Embassadours for him among us who have a constituted Church as have been ordained by a Presbytery of preaching Elders My humble request to the Magistrates of our Land is 1 That they would improve to their utmost the power put into their hands by the King of the Church Jesus Christ for Reformation in our Churches by stirring up and enjoyning Ministers to lay out themselves more fully for the instructing admonishing and reforming of the flocks committed to them and people to receive yeeld and submit unto their Ministerial labours and authority in order to the due use of all the Ordinances of Christ and such a conversation as becometh the Gospel And that therefore they would bee pleased to countenance and enjoyn the n●cessary works of Catechising and private instruction and by their authority to strengthen the hands of Christs Ministers in their keeping the Ordinances of Christ and particularly that of his Supper from profanation 2 That they would take care that every Congregation so farre as may be stand furnished with a Minister of the Gospel rightly qualified and invested into office by Ordination received from Ministers of the Gospel according to Christs institution Jehosaphat sent none with his Princes to teach the People the Law of God but Levites and Priests persons regularly invested with office 2 Chron. 17.8 9. The Churches of God in Primitive times in after ages at this day in Scotland France Sweden Denmark Helvetia Germany the Netherlands New-England all the Presbyterian Churches in England yea of Congregational Churches almost all doe with one consent affirm that authoritative preaching of the Word and dispensing of the Sacraments belong only to a lawfully Ordained Ministry I beseech our Rulers in the bowels of Christ that effectual care bee taken that all our Ministers may be such that countenance publick places and publick maintenance bee afforded only to such How should wee expect our comforts should bee dear to God if wee are not zealous for that which so nearly concerns his glory 3 That they would be pleased effectually to suppress to their power all Blasphemies Heresies and Anti-fundamental Errours that they may not bee written taught vented promoted to the prejudice of the Truth trouble of the Church and endangering the immortal Souls of people and that men may not have liberty to defame and every Blatero to rail at and charge with Antichristianism the Churches and ways of God which Protestants have generally owned and sealed their testimony unto with the bloud of multitudes of Martyrs Then would their light break forth as the morning and the glory of the Lord would be their rereward Let timid spirits cry out of Lions in the way and fear that if there bee an owning of thorow Reformation erroneous and loose persons will bee discontented and ready to joyn with forreign enemies to disturb the publick peace and procure the ruine of Church and State But let Magistrates who are the Ministers of God and bear his Name zealously goe through with the work of the Lord and expect confidently protection and a blessing from him in it setting before them that excellent pattern Jehosaphat 2 Chron. 17. whose care and zeal for Reformation was remarkably owned and rewarded by God for He stablished the Kingdom in his hand all Judah brought him presents and the Philistines and Arabians tribute he had riches and honour in abundance and the fear of the Lord fell upon the Kingdoms of the Lands that were round about Judah so that they made no warre against Jehosaphat Thus will the Lord reward Rulers that are zealous for his honour and against whatsoever strikes at it And our Supream Magistrate and Chief Rulers may in the discharge of this work look for like success SECT XIV Of Mr. P's conclusion abusing that of the Lord Du Plessis his Book I Shall conclude all with that noble Speech P. 95 96. of that noble Lord Du Plessis May we not lawfully say with the Prophet We would have cured Babel but she would not be cured forsake her

5 Concerning the quantity of a Church that it may consist of divers Assemblies Mr. Hooker grants Survey part ● p. 129. that the Church of Jerusalem was so numerous that they must needs meet in divers Congregations Several dissenting Brethren have yielded that Corinth had more than one Congregation 6 Concerning the gathering of Members into Congregations Respect is to bee had to vicinity of habitation Mr. Borroughs Heart Div. p. 163. 169. according to the rule of Christ All beleevers who live in a place together ought so far as they can to joyn in one Church though they bee of different judgements and tempers The way of Christ all along in Scripture is that those in a place that are not more than can joyn in one should joyn together and make but one Church 7 Concerning the return of Church-Members from gathered Churches to their proper Pastors in the places of their Habitations Mr. Borroughs Heart div p. 165. Do you pray for and endeavour the putting on reformation to the uttermost and then see what they will do They have not yet declared themselves so joyned by any Covenant that they may not joyn with you 8 Against Separation from our Churches as no true Churches Mr. Cotton Way p. 111 112. Wee cannot but conceive the Churches of England were rightly gathered and planted according to the rule of the Gospel at first So that all the work is now not to make them Churches which were none before but to reduce and restore them to their primitive institution Congr Way cleared p. 14 Mr. Robinsons denial of the Parishional Congregations in England to bee true Churches was never received into any heart from thence to inferre a nullity of their Church-state Neither was our departure from them even in those evil times a separation from them as no true Churches Mr. Burroughs Heart div p. 163. Men must not separ●●● from a Church though there be corruption in it to gather into a new Church which may bee more pure and in some respects more comfortable Because wee never finde the Saints in Scripture separating or raising Churches in such a case and there would bee no continuance in Church-fellowship if this were admitted 9 Of Election and Ordination of Church-Officers Mr. Bains Dioces trial p. 84. If any fail in any Office the Church hath not power of supplying that but a Ministry of calling one whom Christ hath described that from Christ he may have power of Office given him in the place vacant Mr. Cotton Keys p. 21. Way p. 40 Ordination of Officers whether Elders or Deacons belongs to the Elders of the Church and is to be performed by prayer fasting and imposition of hands Mr. Hooker Surveys part 2. p. 76. Mr. Noyes p. 69. When Churches are rightly constituted and compleated the right of Ordination belongs to the Elders The act appertaines to the Presbyters when an Officer is invested in his place for of these it is expresly spoken 1 Tim. 4.14 It hath been proved that common Members may not ordain by themselves without Officers 10 Concerning the Ordination of the Ministers of the Church of England Congregational Brethren generally acknowledge the Ordination of our Ministers to bee valid and that they need not any new ordination nor those that have been ordained by them 11 Concerning the power of Synods Wee dare not say Mr. Cotton Keies p. 25. that their power reacheth no farther than giving of Counsell They have power by the grace of Christ also to command and injoyn the things to be beleeved and done Act. 15.28 In case a particular Church p. 47. bee disturbed with error or scandal maintained by a faction now a Synod of Churches or their Messengers is the first subject of that power and authority whereby error is judicially convinced and condemned and the way of truth and peace declared and imposed on the Churches See also Mr. Noyes Temple measured p. 56 57 58. Thus far and in several other particulars wee and the congregational Brethren are or at least were sometimes agreed And did they own what may bee from these principles inferred and practice what they lead to I doubt not but that wee should soon bee fully agreed But a generation of men are now Risen up who yet would be accounted one with these terming themselves Congregational also who call most if not all these principles into question and instead of tending to an accommodation raise and heighten our divisions proclaiming our Churches Ministry Government to bee Antichristian c. Among whom I have found my Antagonist laying about him to this end with all his might I confess I have dealt plainly with him but beleeve that my sharpest expressions fall short of his merit Reader consider and judge and the Lord lead thee with me and all his people into all truth So prays From my study in Waldron this 12th of August 1658. Thy Servant for Jesus sake EZECHIEL CHARKE The Table Sections 1 ANimadversions upon some passages in the Epistle concerning the Magistrates Power in matters of Religion Pages 1 Sections 2 Of Mr. P's Text and the interpretation thereof and inferences from it particularly of the coming out of Babylon and an Antichristian Church-state Pages 6 Sections 3 Of National Churches Pages 11 Sections 4 Of Parish-Churches Ministers maintenance the Churches of England the Witnesses and Separation Pages 13 Sections 5 Of Congregational Presbyterial Classical Churches and of the Church Catholick and Synods Pages 28 Sections 6 An Examination of Mr. P's Answers to the Objections hee mentions as made against his Doctrine of Separation and of his Reasons for Separation Pages 61 Sections 7 Of Mr. P's injunctions to the Magistrate and first concerning Parishes Parish-Temples and Patrons Pages 80 Sections 8 Of Tithes Pages 89 Sections 9 Concerning the Commissioners for approbation of publike Preachers Pages 101 Sections 10 Of Mr. P's Counsels and Directions for Reformation Pages 104 Sections 11 Of the Call of our Ministers Pages 106 Sections 12 A Question discussed Whether any unordained persons among us are lawful and compleat Ministers of the Gospel with an Answer to the six Arguments for Popular Ordination brought by the Answerers of Jus Div. Min. Evangelici in their Book called the Preacher sent Pages 110 Sections 13 Containing the Authors humble supplication to those in Authority for Reformation Pages 123 Sections 14 Of Mr. P's Conclusion abusing that of the Lord Du Plessis his book Pages 125 AN Answer to Mr. Postelthwaite's Book Entituled A voice from Heaven SECT I. Animadversions upon some Passages in the Epistle Concerning the Magistrates Power in matters of RELIGION CAn God indure to bee prescribed by Creatures shall man coine Laws for Rules of acceptable walking with God in spirituall Civil or Ecclesiastical things c. You are not ignorant that in Ecclesiastical things both for Doctrine and Discipline wee own no other Rule but the written Word of God by which both Magistrates and

Moses and Aaron who did turne the waters to blood and did smite the Egyptian earth with all Plagues Exod. 7. Now it is observable 1 That in two of these three paire of types one beares the person of a Magistrate the other of a Minister or Prophet Moses and Zerubbabel were Magistrates Aaron and Joshuah Ministers 2 That in the times of the Baalitical Apostacy which answers most fitly to the times of the Apostacy of Antichrist the witnesses are onely Prophets Elias and Elisha 3 That wee have in these three paire of types four Prophets for two Magistrates These things considered By the two Witnesses I understand Magistrates and Ministers some of both sorts who have in their several ages witnessed against Antichrist from the very first rise of him down to our times But in no age have Prophets been wanting to this office and work whereas Magistrates appear in it at some times onely as 1 In the beginning of reformation in a Land or Nation as Moses appeared with Aaron when the people were brought out of Egypt to serve the Lord and Zerubbabel appears with Joshua in the beginning of the reformation after the Babylonish captivity 2 Towards the end of Antichrists reign Rev. 17.16 But now the Prophets they must prophesie in sackcloth one thousand two hundred and sixty daies that is all along the Tyranny of Antichrist which hath been in great part made good by the event This being so overthrows his notion of the Witnesses neither can Congregational Ministers bee any otherwise reckoned any part of the Witnesses than as they are taken in conjunction with the other godly Ministers of this and other reformed and Rome-renouncing Churches that have and in this age do stand up as a part of the two Witnesses against Antichrist and for Gods truth and worship And though in a large sense all those may bee reckoned as witnesses against Antichrist that have made open profession of the grand truths of the Gospel in opposition to Antichrist and those who have laid down their lives in that witness Yet in a strict sense Effecta quae efficiunt Praec●nes illi in electis duo consolatio illuminatio quarom illa significatur nomine Olearum ista vero nomine Candelabrorum Pisc the Witnesses are Magistrates and Ministers and yet more especially Ministers who have in all ages opposed themselves to Antichrists Idolatries These are the two Olive-trees and the two Candlesticks that enlighten comfort and feed the Church of God during the whole time of Antichrists reign Rev. 11.3 4. and Rev. 12.6 compared To what you cite out of the Epistle to the Little-stone that Almost nine parts of ten in the Churches of Scotland are not sheep nor fit for civil much less for spiritual priviledges I answer P. 21. I am not easily induced to beleeve the State of the Church of Scotland to bee so corrupt considering what an honourable testimony holy Mr. Burroughs hath given concerning it Lect. 13. on Hosea p. 368. And whereas it is said that many of the sheep there turne head against their Shepherds The more I say is the pity But certainly the reason of it is the present laxness of Church-Government to which those of your way contribute not a little and which if it should recover its ancient vigour and strength and beauty would remedy this evil And I beleeve some Brethren of the Congreganal way have cause enough to make the same complaint of their Sheep One of them godly and learned told mee some few years ago that their people were grown to such a passe that they knew not what to do with them Mr. W. G. And how many sad proofs have wee seen hereof in these late years Neither let it seem harsh to any that admire the antiquity of Churches in England which they conceive began to bee planted by Joseph of Arimathea or Simon Zelotes that I press the casting out of the Parish-Churches the deemed successors of them They retain not their priviledge whose neither constitution nor conversation they can bee found to imitate And wee know P. 24 25. that the Holy Ghost teacheth us to say of as few as may bee to give a valid testimony against the Antichristians of two witnessing Churches These are the two Candlesticks i. e. Churches standing before the God of the earth Whereby the Churchdome of these witnessing separated Churches is not onely established and approved but the much claimed Churchdome of others rejected Your prohibition cannot hinder it from seeming harsh not onely to us but also to some Congregational Brethren that you should unchurch our Churches Way p. 54 because Parochial It appears saith Mr. Cotton to bee an errour to say there is no limitation or distinction of Parishes Way p. 112. meaning of Churches jure divino and speaking of the Churches of England All the work now is not to make them Churches which were none before but to reduce and restore them to their primitive Institution Your self do not deny our Parish-Churches to bee the successors of the Churches planted here by the mentioned worthies and on that account one would think reformation should serve your turne without rising so high as separation But this you think will beare you out that they do not imitate the constitution nor conversation of those first Churches If you should go about to prove either part of this assertion which you wisely forbeare to do you would finde a hard task of it Because it is not possible you should certainly know what was the constitution or conversation of those first Churches But I shall grant and do beleeve ours do not generally imitate their conversation being more corrupted in manners through the neglect of Discipline And what then doth the Scripture any where teach you that corruption in manners yea in many regards in administration and use of ordinances whilst the fundamentals and essentials are retained in doctrine and worship is a sufficient ground for Separation I provoke you to make that appear And indeed this is the point that you Separatists stand bound to make good and which if you cannot as I am sure you cannot from the Word all your declamations against our Churches will not a whit free you from the guilt of Schisme As for the other branch of not imitating their constitution 't is a charge as weakly bottomed and inferring as the other For the particular constitution of those Churches is as I have said unknown to you and our Churches are not now newly constituting but have been long constituted and are successors of those first Churches And no more unchurched and necessitated to bee newly constituted by the intervention of Papal corruptions then the Church of Israel was by the intervention of heathenish Idolatries in it during the reign of bad Kings And that way of constitution still holds our Churches in their State which gave and maintained an ecclesiastical being to the Apostolical Churches even the professing and owning of the

P's Counsels and direction for Reformation IN his 89. 90. page hee subjoynes to his injunctions to the Magistrate an exhortation to all to come out of Babylon that is in his sense Reformed Churches And to this end makes use of his old unworthy Art of abusing Authors The greatest part of those pages being a citing of some passages out of Diodati and Calvin Minister in the Protestant Church at Geneva intended against Rome as separated from by that and all other Protestant Churches and wresting them to carry on his exhortation to separation from those separating Protestant Churches This is a way of abusing Protestant writers whereby Mr. P. outstrips the very Papists themselves who though they bee their sworn enemies yet never had such a foreheadlesse impudence as to abuse them in this kinde His Directions follow 1 Reform not onely substance but circumstance hate the garment spotted by the flesh p. 91. c. Here is nothing but unkinde insinuations that wee labour not so to do the contrary to which hath been evinced I wish rigid Separatists had the substance of Religion well reformed among them and did not look more after Circumstances than it and that Mr. P. whilst hee is so zealous about Circumstances close not in with those of them that have imbraced Popish opinions and doctrines and so pervert the substance But what Circumstances inconsistent with the word do wee retain Mr. P. mentions none here Si accusare sat est quis erit innocens 2 Take away not onely Idolatrous notions but the things God say those Reverend Lights p. 92. Dod and Cleaver in Deut. 7.25 forbids the Israelites to covet or touch the plate of Idols covered with gold and silver l●st it should make them remember the Idol and so Worship it So wee must lay aside all superstitious things and actions I suppose hee strikes here at our Parish-Churches Tithes and Temples which have been abundantly proved to bee no Idolatrous things and which those pious writers never thought of when they wrote this or imagined that any man would bee so unreasonable as thus to mis-apply and abuse their expressions But it is observable that Mr. P. who calls them Reverend lights and hath thus flowers at hand See whom this resembleth Matth. 23.29 30 31. to strew upon the hearses of these dead Ministers would notwithstanding have the Living lights of our Churches who are men of the same Principles in matters of faith and discipline put under a bushel and laid aside as broken vessels of no farther use in the Church of God Mr. P. may remember time place and company when where and in which hee thus exprest himself I professe were I a man in absolute authority I would make SCAVINGERS of all the Parish-Priests in England to clean the waies or rake the dunghills Reader art thou not amazed Truly though I cannot sometimes but answer him according to his folly my soul mourns for him and I fear God will severely visit these murderous intentions desires and expressions upon him How sad is it that such thoughts of heart should bee found and manifested to be in him in relation to many as worthy dear painful Servants of the Lord as are this day in the world only because they close not with his apprehensions and differ from Congregatinal men in matters of discipline Certainly we may judge by this that wee should have a sad Reformation were it referred to Mr. P's will The gravest holiest and most painful Parish-Ministers would bee accounted Idolatrous things and so taken away according to his Direction How well is it for England that God hath given him no more power in it As for the mentioned Comment we readily assent to it and it toucheth us not Wee have shewed that our Churches Maintenance Temples cannot bee proved to be Idols or Idolatrous But Mr. P. must bee again minded that though it was not lawful for the Israelites to convert the silver and gold of the Canaanitish Idols to their own private use yet they were not forbidden to convert it to the use of the house of the Lord. And there is a command for it Josh 6.18 19.24 It was an accursed thing if they took it to their own private use But being brought into and bestowed upon the house of God it was holy to the Lord. And so answerably now Places and Things however idolatrously used heretofore being consecrated to God and imployed in his service and for his worship do no more remain Idolatrous p. 93 3 Return NOT only to the true object of worship but to the right means that are instituted in the word of God Understands not Mr. P. what the right means of Gods worship are or doth hee knowingly and falsely accuse his Christian Brethren Prayer Preaching Singing of Psalmes administration of the Sacraments these are the principal means of Gods Worship and have wee not these in our Congregations But Mr. P. doth I suppose apprehend Discipline and a form of Church-Government to contain virtually all the means of worship But surely Church-government is no means of worship though it bee a means to preserve the Ordinances of God free from pollution And as to Church-Government I suppose and beleeve to have proved in this Treatise that that which we plead for is agreeable to the Divine pattern and the Independent not so That 2 Cor. 11.3 4. is misapplied by him The Apostle speaks not there of Church-Discipline but of Fundamental Christian doctrins SECT 11. Of the Call of our Ministers p. 94 LAstly beware of Antichrists Brokers and buy nothing of him at second hand This mans modesty is pleased to call as pious able and successeful a Ministry as the Christian world hath Antichrists Brokers And why so Our Ordination is that which will not down with him it is from Rome and therefore we are Antichrists Brokers and Antichristian For answer I conceive that this Objection and charge may be two waies taken off I shall propound them and leave them with the judicious Reader Jus Div. Min. Angl. p. 33 c. 1 The common Answer which is that that is in particular laid down improved and urged by the Reverend Provincial Assembly of London is that Our Ordination and Ministry is descended to us from Christ and his Apostles and the primitive Churches through but not from the Apostate Church of Rome And that the receiving of our Ministry thus through Rome makes it no more null and void than the receiving the Scriptures Sacraments or any other Ordinance of God through Antichristian Rome doth make them null and void Nay that it is a great strengthening to our Ministry that it appears hereby derived to us from Christ and his Apostles by the succession of a Ministry continued for 1600. years And that wee have not onely a lineal succession from Christ and his Apostles but also a Doctrinal succession which is more c. So much they have said in vindication of our