own which purifies our consciences from dead Works and keeps our minds undefiled by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost Tit. 3 5. The third accusation is That we deny the Sacrament which is an Ordinance of Christ. Ans. For the word Sacrament there is no such Scripture which speaks of a Sacrament therefore we do deny you and your Sacrament and your Bread and Wine which is carnal and feedâ— the carnal which must die and your communion is in that which is carnal in the creatures and Drunkards and Swearers have fellowship together with you in those things and all lyars covetous ones prophane and idolatrous ones eats of the bread and drinks of the cup and sits at the Table which is the Table of Devils And this is your Sacrament which stands without in carnal bread and wine and feeds the carnal which oppresseth and murders the Seed of God within you and you say Christ hath left that as an Ordinance for you to practice which is false which we deny but the Supper of the Lord we own The Cup of blessing which we bless is it not the communion of the blood of Christ And the bread which we break is it not the communion of the body of Christ for we being many are one bread for we are all partakers of that one bread 1 Cor. 10.16 17 21 22. And this is the bread which came down from Heaven he that eateth thereof shall never dye And this Bread we all eat of and this cup we all drink of and this is that which is practised and commanded in the Church of Christ and so we sit at the Table of Christ and cannot sit nor have fellowship with the Table of Devils And they who sit at your Table and your Sacrament and eat of your Bread and drink of your Wine they dye for it is not the bread of life and you who eat and drink it do not discern the Lord's body for it is spiritual and your Sacrament is carnal and so you eat and drink damnation to your selves not discerning the Lords body feeding the carnal with the carnal and so we deny your Sacrament to be any Ordinance of Christ or the Supper of Christ 1 Cor. 11.29 The fourth Accusation is That we deny the resurrection of the Body Ans. And that is false for at the sound of the last Trumpet the dead shall be raised they that have done good shall arise to the resurrection of life they that have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation And we preach Christ risen from the dead and if the dead rise not then is our preaching vain and your faith is also in vain and you are yet in your sins who know not this resurrection Christ risen from the dead in you 1 Cor. 15.14 15 16 17. But some man will say How are the dead raised and with what bodies do they come 1. Cor. 15.35 Thou fool that which thou sowest thou sowest not that body that shall be but bare grain it may chance of wheat or of some other grain but God giveth it a body as it pleaseth him and to every seed his own body There is also celestial bodies and bodies terrestrial and the glory of the celestial is one and the glory of the terrestrial is another there is one glory of the Sun another glory of the Moon and another glory of the Stars for one star differs from another star in glory So also is the resurrection of the dead it is sown in corruption it is raised in incorruption it is sown in dishonor it is raised in glory it is sown in weakness it is raised in power it is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body 1 Cor. 15.35.36 37 38. Now this I say unto you all That flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Gâ—d neither doth corruption inherit incorruption 1 Cor. 15.50 51 52. But this is to you all a mystery who are in the first nature whose understandings are not enlightned by the light of Christ who live in your forms notions and professions of these things in the Letter feeding your carnal minds with the Letter which is death and killeth and so your minds are drawn from the Light of Christ within you into outward observances of meats and drinks bread and wine divers washings carnal Ordinances which were figures of the time then present Heb. 9.9 10. and you deny Jesus Christ the Substance who is the true Light that enlighteneth every one that cometh into the World Now to the Light in you all I speak which Christ Jesus hath enlightened you withall and if you love this Light it will lead you out of all your carnal Ordinances and Worships and divers Washings which stand in the first covenant which was before Christ and is done away in Christ the second covenant and it will lead you to worship God in the spirit and into the doctrine of Christ to yea and nay in all your communications But all who are got up high in forms and profession you are not yet come to yea and nay but are out of the doctrine of Christ and walk contrary to the Light of Christ in your consciences which Light shall be your condemnation that hate it John 3.19 20. though you be got up high in your forms and notions and words of the Saints conditions who spoke in the light and from the life And you who have the form but not the life shall be condemned by the life and you who hate the light shall be condemned with the light and life which gave forth the Scriptures The fifth Accusation is That we do not honor Magistrates nor are subject unto Authority but are disturbers and breakers of the peace Ans. Justice we own and righteousness and all who love the Light of Christ which he hath enlightened them withall it will lead them to act Justice And all Magistrates I charge you in the presence of the living God to act according to that which is pure of God in the conscience And all Magistrates who act according to that of God in the conscience are honored by those who fear the Lord and walk in obedience to that in the conscience and those who act justice according to that in the conscience they do not bear the sword in vain for that in the conscience is according to the law of God and all you Magistrates who are set over the people to do Justice and execute the lavv upon offendors this is the Word of the Lord to you To mind the Light of Christ in your consciences and it vvill cause you to act according to the place of a Magistrate But if you suffer Svvearers and Drunkards or Lyars or Oppressors or false Weights or Strikers or Quarrellers or Fighters and do not punish them or Whoremongers or Idolaters or idle persons vvithout a calling thou that passeth by these things dost not act justice according to the lavv then thou acts not
Except ye eat my flesh and drink my blood ye have no life in you And this is his Supper in eating of which the creature hath life in himself Therefore fly from idolatry I speak unto wise men judge what I say the cup of blessing which we bless is the Communion of the blood of Christ and the bread which we break is the Communion of the body of Christ For we being many are one bread and one body for we are all partakers of that one bread 1 Cor. 10.14 15 16 17. For the bread of God is he that came down from Heaven and giveth life unto the World John 6.33 Then said they unto him Lord evermore give us this bread and Jesus said unto them I am the bread of life he that cometh to me shall never hunger and he that believeth on me shall never thirst John 6.34 35. I am the living bread which came down from heaven if any man eat of this bread he shall live for ever and the bread that I will give is my flesh which I will give for the life of the world v. 51. But the Jews could not belive this neither can this Priest but saith we own feâ—ding on Christs flesh but deny his Supper and so as blind as they But by the life which we receive in eating of his flesh and drinking of his bloud are we manifest to be of those that feed at his Table and cannot have communion at the Table of Devils as the Church of God could not 1 Cor. 10.21 Again He saith that we own baptism with the spirit but deny baptism with water I answer Who come to the baptism with the spirit into one body they are come to the one baptism which the Saints witnessed not laying again the doctrine of baptism which waâ— several but witnessing the one the substance of the other which was necessary to salvation so all those things in which the substance was signified whether circumcision or water is not denied in their time and place when the obedience in them was from the command of the spirit and not from tradition but people now in the ignorance of God and his ways take up things by tradition being both out of the command and out of the substance and such deny the substance where it is witnessed as for this Priest Clapham he hath never ministred water baptism as it was ministred when it was a doctrine from heaven for there is not one in all his Congregation that had first received the holy Ghost nor believed in Christ before he baptised them with water and so both the substance and the figure is denied in him so that in that in which he would accuse another without ground is he upon good ground found guilty And as for denying to give thanks that is false for we are bound in spirit to give thanks always to the Father who hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saints in light and whether we eat or eat not we give God thanks and this we are come to witness to pray without ceasing and in all things give thanks for so is the will of God concerning us and in us is it fulfilled and we sing with the Spirit and with understanding also but such take Davids conditions which waâ— made manifest unto him in the sure mercies of the Lord to him and sing his deliverances whose soul is yet in the pit and sing his prophesies who never knew the spirit of prophesie in themselves and say they have roared all the day long by reason of their sins when as they have roared all the day long in fulfilling their sins and iniquities and for the scorners to say they have no scornful eye and for the proud to say they are not puft in mind such singing we deny which is without the Spirit and without understanding also For light is sown for the righteous and joy for the upright in heart so to the light with which Christ hath enlightned every one that cometh into the world I speak which tends to uprightness of heart and unto holiness without which no man can see the Lord those things which are reprovable are made manifest in the Liâ—ht and that which doth make manifâ—st is light which all who be out of it is in darkness and know not whether they go nor what they profit as many now in these days being kept from the light and gate of truth by the doctrines of men and so never come to read in the Lambs book of life which first all must come to know the vials poured forth upon the earth upon the Beast and his works and his sear which is found standing in all them who be from the light they be enlightned withal But the hour is coming and now is when all they that be upon the face of the earth may see the appearance of the Son of God and may receive his power in the measure which his Father hath given them to receive him in therefore every one who comes to see with the light of the Son of God enter into thaâ— which you see to be of him and out of that which you see to be of the World that so the everlasting righteousness and peace you may possess in your obedience to what is made manifest that you may come to see and favour the things of God from those things that be of the World and as every one walks in the light you will be as a sweet smelling sacrâ—fice unto the Lord and knowing and feeling the power of â—he Lord with it the everlasting door vvill be opened and the vvell-springs of life to the feeding of the plants of God with the uncorruptible food which is every word which proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord vvhich vvill be received as that of God in every particular is kept single Again The Priest in his 3 4 5. Section saith That we deny the doctrine of the Trinity and that we hold equality with God and the soul be â—ne being with God and corrupt the doctrine of justification Answ. For a Trinity of persons there is no such docâ—â—â—ne in the Scriptures neither the vvord three Persons nor Trinity and so three distinct one from another eternally as he hath held forth saying Christ is the eternal Son of God distinct from the Father eternally and the Spirit is distinguished from the Father and the Son eternally This is a Tradition of men taught for a doctrine but no doctrine and in denying of that vve do but deny Claphams tradition but as for the Father Word and Spirit which bear record in heaven these three are one and vvas never separated eternally for Christ in the days of his flesh vvhen he vvas in the vvorld said I and my Father are one and said I in them and they in me that they may be one as we are one John 17.11 22. and so this doctrine of the unity of the Father Word and Spirit
had some office in a Regiment and did sometime preach among his sincere and sober Companions that loved him wel according to his knowledg and judgment at that day and he obtained a good Report amongst such as were lovers of Religion And when it pleased the Lord God everlasting to raise us up to be a People in the North parts and through great Tribulations and extream distresses within and without which we passed through were we raised up of the Lord to be a holy and chosen People This same Person was one among the first of us whose heart the Lord touched with the sence of his Power and Kingdom and amongst us he had the mighty operation of the Power of God experienced in his heart Great afflictions and tribulations for many weeks was he exercised in through the dispensation of the Grace and Spirit of Christ Jesus he was in that state and while therein exercised for many dayes a wonder to all that beheld him as one passing out of the body as one under the deep sence of the hand of the Lord under the operation of his Power thus it was with many of us and particularly with him Till such time as the same Power that killed made alive as wounded also â—eâ—led as brought down also raised up and then being raised up in the holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ he was made a Minister of the Everlasting Gospel to preach Repentance Conversion Salvation and Remission of sins and accordingly went forth in the Name and Power of the Lord Jesus the Saviour of mâ—n kind and was a Minister of the glad Tydings of Salvatiâ—n in many parts of this Land and elsewhere to the conversion of many Souls to God for his Ministry was made effectual by the Almighty Power of the Lord to turn many from darknesse to light from the power Satan to God and there are thousands who can in the Spirit of the Lord bear Testimony to the power and verity of his Ministry in many Countreys where he travelled for he laboured much in divers places and was very diligent and faithful in the work of the Lord and suffered imprisonment divers times and was hardly dealt withal and persecuted in Chester Cambridge and in Norwich prisons and other places and he was found faithful in all his Tryals among his Brethren and alwayes ready to do his service in what he was called unto with a willing mind being truly in body soul and spirit given up to the service of the Gospel of Christ Jesus a dispensation of which was committed unto him that he might serve the Lord in his Generation and though he how hath finished his Testimony in this World yet the remembrance of him lives with us in the Spirit of Jesus and he is accounted among the faithful Sufferers a Martyr for the witnesse of the Truth which ever liveth And for the space of nine years he laboured and travelled in the work of the Gospel aforesaid in most of the Counties of this Nation and was well known for his faithfulness among the Churches of Christ He was but little in stature in his outward man and of weak Constitution of body and was slow of speech and often more ready to hear then to speak he made little appearance in the manhood of Excellency or Authority but was contemptible among men yet he was very wise and knew his season when to speak and when to be silent and when he spoke it was with much discretion and deliberation in weaknesse of word many times yet reached perfectly the matter intended by him and his speech was with Graâ—e and in the fear of God and had Authority in the Spirits of men and was of savour and sound judgement though in weaknesse of the manhood expressed for he answered not mens Wisdom in excellent stile of words but the witnesse of God in sincerity of speech he was a Person of sound judgement in divine Mysteries and of good experience in the operations of the power of God and knew the passing through divers conditions of the inward man and was able to speak to many estates of man passing under the dispensations of the Grace of God he could well inform the mind of a person in an afflicted and tossed state of terrour and judgement and his Ministry was often savoury and seasonable and felt in the pure life though his words were plain and homely and no beauty in them to mans Wisdom and God made him and his service a blessing to many who shall speak for him in their own Consciences He was of a loving genâ—le and good disposition and acceptable was his Company to them that knew him and were like-minded a good Companion in all Conditions not soon moved into passion of either grief in Adversity or of joy in Prosperity nor had he a Spirit taking offence upon light occasions against any but watched for Good over all and not for Evil He was a man of peace and loved it and walked peaceably among his brethren in honest kind familiarity And I am perswaded in my Soul according to the experience I had of him for many years he abhorred dissention and strife among Friends and was never the real occasion intendedly by himself of any difference and dissention among brethren and what further is Truth of him I leave it to the just God whose testimony is true and never fails Among many others that were taken from Meetings and sent to Newgate according as ye have â—eard This same Person of whom I am now treating was in like manner rudely and violently taken on the 22 th day of the 4 th Month last out of a Meeting in the Bull at Aldersgate and carried before Richard Brown who used violence to him with his own hands in pulling his Hat down upon his head so that he brought his head near the ground and then he Commirted him to Newgate where he remained till the Sessions and was then indicted among the rest for being at an unlawful Meeting c. as it is said and he being throng'd up in Prison among the rest of us it pleased the Lord to visite him with sickness of body and in 10. dayes space always growing weaker and weaker in that time he deceased and laid down his body in peace About two days before his departure some of his dearest Friends went to visite him and sate by him a space and spoke somwhat to him and asked him if any thing was upon his Spirit he might now speak it to his Friends His answer was That there was no need to dispute matters for he knew the ground of his Salvation and was satisfied for ever in his peace with the Lord God and we know said he one another wel and what each of us can say about those things and spoke no further And the 17 th day of the 6th Month he departed this life and was gathered up to his Fathers the Generation of the just and though he be gone in that
Nation who in their covetousness after money piercing thâ—mselves through with many hurtful lusts having erred from the faith and having exceeded the false Prophets in other generations for their ill savour is so come up before the Lord that he will cause even their own breath to devour them and their own confusions to make them ashamed But we have also to war against spiritual wickedness in high places and the powers of darkness under the form of godliness and the Beast which is risen out of the Earth which hath Horns like a Lamb but is as a Lyon but with one Light are they seen and with one Power are they judged and the secret counsel of the Lord is the strength of them that fear him in which we reign over all the ways of unrighteousness and works of darkness in what appearance soever they come And now to thee Jonathan Clapham and the rest of thy company art thou not ashamed to go under the Name of a Minister of Christ and take Tythes and sue men for Tythes and thou to number thy self and take hand with them that are persecuting and casting slanders upon the innocent And dost thou set forth thy Refuge of lyes and dost not thou think that all people that read thy book made up with lyes will not see it that fear God and know that will return upon thy pate had there been no Reply to it The day hath dâ—clared thee a witness shall rise up in thee against thee and thy lyes that is the Word of the Lord God to thee What you that be call'd Independents now should be setting up your Refuge of lyes and publish them to the chief Magistrates of the Nation they will not refuge under them who be under the shadow of the Almighty who do believe and obey the Truth and fear God! And what you that be called Independents sue men for Tythes cast men in prison for tythes O shame cover your lips and faces and you are they the wicked Seeds-men to sow your lyes abroad and to proclaim thy self a lyar to all the Nation to say that the Quakers deny prayer dost thou not think all the Nation will see thee and you to be lyars who have proclaâ—med your selves to be lyars in saying the Quakers be Enemies â—o prayer We are satisfied and a thousand of people concerning you your lyes and slanders and do see into what you run and do beseech the Lord to forgive you for you have a lamentable cup to drink for you do nâ—t know what you have done in this great day of the Lord and what you have stood against and is it not a shame for thee and you that are called Independents to take Tythes of them and to sue them up to London for tythes that you do no work for and to cast them into prison that cannot put into your mouths whom you do not labour for Was ever such a company of Ministers of unrighteousness known in any age And is not all this your fighting against the Saints and opening your mouths against them because they cannot put into your mouths and give you tythes and filthy lucre and gifts and rewards and hire To demand hire of them that have not hired you is not this unrighteous You know not what spirit you are of nor what Cup you are to drink of the Lord forgive you And as for thy Book all people that fear God will be satisfied with reading of it And I tell thee and all them that are called Independents in the Nation that are suing persecuting and imprisoning unto death for tythes that there is something raised up in the hearts of the people that will not believe lyes and many of them are so far satisfied that they know that your Books are but envy and malice and stuft full of lyes and prejudice against the innocent and the Truth and some of you have a mad blind zeal in persecuting and imprisoning to death but the Lord will be glorified in your folly who will carry his Lambs in his Arms and the more you write and speak against Truth the more your blindness madness aod folly and lyes and dislike to the people that fear God appears and your speaking against truth hath advantaged truth against your folly and madness but out of the mouths of babes and sucklings hath the Lord ordained strength and the Lord and his high hand is with them Art not thou and you such as the Apostle spoaks of that serve not the Lord Jesus Christ but your own bellies who mind Earthly things the evil Beasts the Apostles speak of the slow bellies Have not you all stained your selves with this Have not your fruits declared your Earthly minds and worse than Balaam who sue them for tythes you do no work for doth not this load the innocent Are you them that keep the Gospel without charge O hide your selves for shame the day is appearing that the evil beasts shall go into Dens and men shall go to their labour but ye keep men from their labours while you are abroad ravening in the Earth Are you them that keep the Gospel without charge that now call your selves Ministers that are suing people for tythes and if they wâ—ll not give it you cast them into prison Now are you not clearly proved to be them that the Apostle bids us turn from that are covetous and make merchandize of the people which have the form of godliness but deny the power which the Apostle bids us turn from which teaches for handfuls of Barley and Corn which have the love of money which is the root of all evil which while you have coveted after you have erred from the Faith and pierced your selves through with many hurtful lusts which the man of God is to flye as you may read in Timothy and Titus who are given to filthy lucre and strikers and the covetous are disapproved to be Ministers of Christ. Now its manifest that you are given to filthy lucre strikers and covetous and do teach for filthy lucre and will have lucre of them you do not teach to Your glory is defacing and your beauty staining God will stain it whose end is teaching for filthy lucre you will force people to give you filthy lucre and do not teach them 'T is a shame to speak of the things you do how such peoples goods are spoiled who cannot give you Tythes or filthy lucre which know in their consciences you to be the false Teachers for filthy lucre take aâ—ay that your preaching would quickly down this makes you so mad and enrageâ— like a Lyon that wants his prey against them that put not into your mouths Consider there is a check come upon you to the Light in all your Consciences I speak which Christ hath enlightened you withall which lets you see your Saviour if you love it and if you hate it it 's your condemâ—ation And so I am clear of your blood be it upon your own heads And
vve ovvn and vvitness and as for our equality or unity vvith God vve that believe in him are one vvith him as the Scripture saith and as Christ prayed for us that believe John 17.21 that we might be one in him and in the Father and unity vve must confess for that is a doctrine â—ffirmed by the Apostles of Christ that as he is so are vve in the vvorld and he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are both one and so vve deny no doctrine but vvhatsoever is a doctrine vve vvitness it And to say that vve corrupt the doctrine of justification that is false for vve are freely justified by his grace and so do vvitness the doctrine of justification and vvho are true vvitnesses of it do not corrupt it but if vvhile vve seek to be justified by Christ vve our selves be found sinners is Christ therefore the Minister of sin God forbid Gal. 2.17 but herein doth the Priests of the World corrupt the doctrine of Justification professing to be justified by Christ while they themselves are found sinners and say that God doth account them righteous in Christ but unrighteous in themselves and so would make Christ the minister of sin and to justifie or save his people in their sins and not from them and so by them the doctrine of justification is corrupted and the Scripture perverted and the grace of God by which the Saints are freely justified is turned into wantonness and so by their faigned words in hypocrisie they cast thick clouds and vails of darkness over the peoples mindes to keep them in ignorance of the redemption of their immortal souls which is to be redeeâ—â—d by the blood of the Lamb they saying that the soul came indeed from God but is not of the being of God and yet in the 51. page tels of turning the whole frame of the soul to center in him again if it must centre in him again then it was in him before and so let thy confusion stop thy mouth Now let all consider in the light which comes from the immortal God whether Gods being is not in life and immortality and whether there is an immortal life but from the same being For God breathed into man the breath of life and through the breath of life he became a living soul Now the breath of life came from the life in which the being is and so to the people I say you have a light which comes from the same life in which the soul lived unto God in the beginning before death passed over which light is made manifest to lead out of death into the life from whence it came and to witness again a living soul and the breath of life and so to be wiser then all your teachers and to know him who hath all souls in his hand who breathed into man the breath of life and he so became a living soul and when he doth the evil the anguish is upon it and to feed atop those mountains which you have wandred after in the forgetfulness of God having forgotten God days without number Rom. 2.9 But now the light is come and knowledge begins to increase and shine in the hearts of the children of light to give them the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ and these things live in us Therefore we are his witnesses who is the light and life of men and did only for the seed sake let forth our knowledge of the mystery of God that they may be gathered into the fold among the Lambs of Christ for the day of scattering hath been long but now is the day of gathering begun wherein all they shall rejoyce that fear the Lord. 2 Cor. 4.6 And whereas many other accusations are charged upon us falsly for the name of Christ by the Priest yet seeing Christ the true Prophet hath said it should be so because they know not the Father nor him who hath enlightned every one that commeth into the World therefore can we bear all things being manifest unto God and to all men to be witnesses of those things which he saith we deny His accusations are these That we deny the Resurrection of the body the last Judgment Heaven and Hell Are enemies to all the Ordinances of Christ are not true mortified persons and our doctrine tendeth not to destroy sin That we are the common sink of all Heresies and enemies to civility and good manners Ans. Our doctrine is the same as is testified of in the Scripture of truth and where it is received remission of sins is received it being the same that our Example the first-born amongst many brethren the first begotten from the dead preached vvhich Gospel vve preach to every creature vvhich Gospel is the povver of God and where it is received doth both destroy sin and sanctifie them throughout in body soul and spirit and by it is the members vvhich are upon the earth mortified for this is the povver that raised up Jesus from the dead and doth also quicken out mortal bodies by his Spirit that dvvelleth in us in vvhich the Scripture is vvitnessed which was a Treatise of those things which was knovvn and surely believed amongst the Saints and vvhich saith they that are asleep in the dust of the earth shall rise some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame and contempt and from â—he true foundation vvitnessing these doctrines vvhich the Apostles did not lay again the foundation of Repentance from dead vvorks and faith tovvards God of the doctrine of baptisms and laying on of hands and of the Resurrection from the dead and of eternal â—udgment Heb. 6.12 for vve having learned vvhat it is to be baptised for the dead deny such as say there is no â—esurrection of the dead the first fruiâ—s of this Resurrection is Christ 1 Cor. 15.22 of which â—hey tâ—at are of Christ are witnesses of these things and they come to know each seed in the light through the figures and through the parables Now in the parables I say to you that seed which you sow in the earth whether it be Wheat or other grain you sow not that body which shall be but God giveth it a body as pleaseth him If it be so in the earthly parable then learn to know the seeds and the nature of them which God giveth to each of them it s own body there is heavenly bodies and earthly bodies â—he glory of the heavenly is one and the glory of the earthly is another and so all being turned to the light which you are enlightned withal you in it will know the things that differ both the seeds the bodies and the glories and so let every one be a witness of what they profess of the things of God for by the Spirit of the Lord have we received the knowledge and so are made witnesses of these thingâ— which our brethren the Prophets and Apostles of Jesus Christ hath testified in the
do them professe and have the form power and effect of what we doe profess and so the mark of the harlot returns upon thy self which is to presume without the spirit The first mark her attendance the ignorant and the lewd Answ. If this be the mark of the Harlot try thy selfe for who is more ignorant than he that wants the infallible spirit as thou confesseth thou dost For this marke of the harlot thou cleares us from in the sixth page of thy book who there accuseth us of subtilty and in the 16 page of ignorance and so thou multiplies thy confusion and ignorance And for lewdnesse thou may own the guilt of that thine self for if thou were not both lewd and mad in thy divinations thou would not have so false accused those that have the spirit of God confessing thy self not to have it but that it is that thy folly may more speedily be made manifest unto all men that the Scripture upon thee may be fulfilled The sixth mark her kinred and that 's the Ranters which thou sayest is the mark of the Harlot Herein thou hast numbred thy self thy own testimony being a witnesse to it and thy guide which is thy naturall senses and corrupt reason knowing neither light nor spirit of Christ within and therefore no restraint thou knows from thy divers lusts but both the Ranters and thou in your sensuall liberty is found and by us you are both denyed for from that kinred we are redeemed and from all harlots marks The seventh mark is she is the youngest of all Harlots little above five yeares old Ans. If thou would prove us to be the Harlot from the youngness of years as little above five then thou must deny that which thou hast asserted against us in the 13. page for there thou would prove us to be false Prophets from those fruits that Christ spoke of Mat. 7.15 And if thou prove any thing against us from that in Mat. 7. then it is not from the yongnesse of years for that is above five yeares since so these confusions I return unto thee again that thou may see that blindnesse and confusion is the signe of the Harlot Now as in answer to thy Queries Query 1. WHether it be not lawful to presuppose things 〈◊〉 are not to find out the truth of things that 〈◊〉 And if so then c. Ans. It is not lawful for thee to intâ—nde into things 〈◊〉 thou hast not seen vainly puft up in thy fleshly mind 〈◊〉 that goes into things that art not to find out the truth of 〈◊〉 that are goes from God the Truth that is into a lye and 〈◊〉 presupposing things there is not lawful neither canst thou 〈◊〉 ought there for nought brings forth its like being gone 〈◊〉 God that is 2. Whether there had been any need of Christ's coming in the 〈◊〉 Adam had stood in his created estate Ans. Christâ—s coming in the flesh is that everlasting 〈◊〉 in which the Creation stands and in which Adam had his 〈◊〉 estate and so there was need of that which gave Adam 〈◊〉 being and recovery The third and fourth Whether Christ restored to believers any 〈◊〉 then Adam lost And whether there be any ground to believe that 〈◊〉 in this life hath more communion with God or are more pure or perfeâ—â— than Adam was in Paradise Ans. Art thou got above the Innocency in thy imaginations and hast the ground of thy belief to seek First come down out of thy imaginations that thou mayest feel the ground of Faith till then thou art no believer and thereby be led up into a perfect state to have communion with God in Paradise till then thou art not in that whâ—ch Adam lost and cannot understâ—nd an estate above nor believe it though it be told thee that which now enquires must lose its life ere thou come into Paradice God's secrets must not feed Serpents 5. Whether Adam in Paradise did not partake of that Light with which Christ lighteneth every one that cometh into the world Ans. The life of Adam in Paradise is the same that is the light of the World wherewith he lightneth every one that cometh into the World and of this Adam did partake in Paradise which gave him Light and Understanding which when he went into the selfish knowledge he became brutish and this is a witness against him 6. Whether this Light of Christ and all other Lights within man if any there be are not seated in the understanding and mind And whether all mens surest Light is not conveyed through the sences to the understanding And whether this will not more clearly appear if considered thae stopping of the current of the sences the understanding becomeâ—h totally dark as unto certainties it having nothing there to nourish it but imagination Ans. In this thou shews thy confusion with thy many lights but hast lost the knowledge of the true Light and so utters thy darkness first asks if the Light be not seated in the understanding and then asks if it be not conveyed through the sences to the understanding but the surest Light is conveyed by faith thereof born in the understanding and not by thy sence and to thy wits end that is carnal must thou come if this thou learn for the mysterie is held in a pure conscience and not in thy sensual understanding and who knows this hath their understanding enlightened by faith and not by the current of the natural sences 7. and 8. Whether it argueth not darkness in the understanding to determine any thing real or certain which was not conveyed by the sences to the understanding Whether for want of this consideration many have not been possessed with as strong a confidence of a certainty as all their powers both of soul and body could procure yea to the laying down of their lives and yet a meer imagination Ans. To determine any thing before the Lord argues darkness in the understanding But what he reveals in the Spirit of Faith and leads unto by his light and not by the sensual understanding and for want of this consideration have many been possessed with a strong confidence of a certainty and not having found their ends therein have turned back again into deceit ready to conclude there is no God because he would not answer their imagination who determined things in their own wills before the guidings of his Spirit and see if hereof thou be not guilty 9. Whether John Lilburn was not as confident that God owned him in his Religion opposing the Powers of the Nation as Saul was in his design to Damascus And whether Sauls conversion to a Christian and John Lilburns resolving to a Quaker be upon one and the same ground Ans. That John Lilburn was confident in his Religion is plain else had he not so long been deceived and that God owned him in opposing many of the unjust Powers of the Nation is as plain else had not he lived to have been
of things as they are made manifest by the Lord to the Light in you I speak that in it you may be able to understand truth in what I say and by the truth to judge of things that differ for such as the Tree is such is the fruit an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit neither can one Fountain send forth sweet water and bitter Now as concerning a Book given forth by John Stelham Priest at Terling in Essex who having an evil eye because God is good and being filled with indignation because God hath mercy on his own Seed whom he hath blessed hath out of the abundance of his heart spoken it forth Now the way to know that which is spoken in darkness is to read it in the light and if his Testimony in any thing as coming from him is to be believed it is that which is concerning his own condition and if his estate and condition be such that in it he can receive the things of God and minister them to others then they may be received but if his condition be such that in it he cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God then that which cannot receive cannot minister and so he is to be silents and none to expect the things of God from him being neither fit to reprove nor to rebuke but to be reproved and rebuked as will appear as followeth The ground in him and the heart out of which this abundance of words in his Book proceeds in it as he declares is yet the root of all error and of all sin is in him and seen by him not mortified and that he hath an old lying heart and flesh wherein there dwells no truth no good thing a sinful wretch and worm subscribing himself the sinful John Stelham as in his Introduction in pag. 80. and p. 117. Now therefore we having found out the root and the ground to be a root of Errror and the ground of Deceit and a heart wherein dwells no truth nor no good thing therefore from that which is unclean shall we not expect that which is clean to proceed nor truth from that wherein dwells no truth but from the lying heart and deceitful tongue hath the Lord delivered us so that if we be called revilers and be rebuked and a charge laid against us as to contradict the Scriptures of God and be called Antiscriptural Antichristian and Antispiritual we have now learned to know whence it doth proceed even from the lying heart and flesh wherein there dwells no truth and we can bear it because we know that til that heart be taken away and a new heart known wherein is truth we must be reproached and spoken evil of falsly for his sake who hath taken away the old lying heart and hath given us a new heart wherein truth dwelleth and where truth proceeds out from and herein are we manifest from the children of this generation and herein are the two states known and the two conditions of men according to the testimony of Scripture and the parable which Jesus spoke Luke 6.39 Can the blind lead the blind shall they not both fall into the ditch And ver 45. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good And an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh And hereby is the Tree known by his fruits and the heart of the wicked was ever filled with lying and vanity and understanding was hid from them the Lord was grieved with such that did err in their hearts and had not known his wayes Psal. 119 70. Psal. 140.2 and this was an evil which was under the sun that the hearts of the sons of men were full of evil and madnesse while they live Eccles. 9.3 And such a heart was in the Scribes and Pharisees a lying heart wherein dwelt no truth filled with evil thoughts as Christ said Wherefore think you evil in your hearts Mat. 9.4 and out of the heart did arise all false accusations calling the truth blasphemy and the way of it heresie and such who be in the state as John Stelham confesseth he is was never appointed by the Lord to watch over souls But such where Christ did dwell in their hearts and because they were sons God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into their hearts Eph. 3.17 Gal. 4.6 and such had truth in their hearts doing the Will of God from the heart and did draw near unto God with a true heart in full assurance of Faith having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water these did not profess the things of God in an old lying heart wherein dwelt no truth but called upon the name of the Lord with a pure heart and said that the end of the commandment was charity out of a pure heart and of a good conscience and of faith unfeigned from which some swerved in the Apostles dayes having turned aside unto vain jangling and such desired to be teachers of others but the doctrine is corrupt and the Mysterie of Faith is not held where the heart and conscience is not pure and the Lord is good unto such who be of a clean heart Now as concerning the Scriptures John Stelham's Testimony from the old lying heart wherein dwelleth no truth is this That the Scriptures are the Word of God and truly so called and the Letter and Scripture is all one as p. 3.4 but to contradict that himself he saith in p. 5. the Letter taken strictly is but legal administration using these words The Letter killeth i.e. the bare legal command without a promise of power or pardon as a bare Letter void of strength life and spirit it leaveth all men under a killing sentence and curse Let them that have understanding judge Again as concerning the Letter in page 6. he expresseth himself thus The Spirit is given by it And in the next words saith the Scripture is but instrumental to the Spirit Now mark the Letter taken strictly being legal without a promise of power or pardon void of strength life and spirit the Spirit to be given by this which he confesseth is void of strength life and spirit and is but instrumental to the Spirit whether this be not contradiction and confusion let them that read judge For in reading these things which he hath published many may seal to the confession of his own condition to be truth but that which he hath declared of the things of God to be false for now the Light being broken forth such doctrine cannot be received nor believed that thâ— Spirit is given by the Letter but that which is declared in the Letter was given forth from the Spirit vvhich vvas in them which spoke it forth but people may long have the Letter and think in it to find God and eternal life and may dye in
sent by us to bring others to the knowledge of God through it and this is no self-contradiction let J.S. say what he will Further J.S. doth instance E.B. his calling mans light natural and carnal in the Warning c. and would cal his contradiction to some who deny the light of Christ to be natural and carnal as the Priests of England terme it but this is no contradiction for though we do deny that the light of Christ Jesus is natural and carnal and doth not allow any so to call it yet the light of man by which carnal men do judg of carnal transgressions is natural E.B. doth never say that the light of Christ is natural and carnal but the light of Mâ—n is so he saith and in this Instance there is no contradiction neither in any parts of the words following which are transcribed and much might be said as to the occasion of those words being uttered when E. B. was in prison falsly as many have been since who was one of the first that by imprisonment was a sufferer for the name of Jesus in the North part of England before J. S. was troubled with any of us but it is sufficient what is said to the mans light by which carnal men judg of any thing is one thing and the light of Christ Jesus which is spiritual mens guide is another thing E. B. spake of mans light and J.S. foolishly opposes him as if he spake of the light of Christ Jesus and so opposes his own conception And further J. S. asserts That Scripture light is the standing rule for faith and manners so are not immediate revelations and teachings Here he hath set up the Scriptures above the Spirit of God and above the Revelation of Jesus Christ the Saints were led by what the Spiâ—it revealed and taught Christ said he should teach into all truth and they that were the Sons of God were loved by the spirit of God and that was their rule to be led by in their Faith and manners But yet see a Hypocrite J.S. is he that pleads for scripture to be the rule and yet is acting in many things contrary to the scriptures as at large may be instanced neither is in all the scripture the scripture called light but scripture saith Christ is the light Further he saith There is sufficient light in the scripture to guide men to salvation Mark his Doctrine whether he hath not preached another thing than Christ to be the way and whether he hath not made Christ and the blood of Christ of none effect without which no salvation But he saith there is sufficient in the Scripture to lead men to salvation and neither Christ nor his blood is in Scripture let it be moved Further he saith The scripture was given by the spirit for a rule this we desire a proof of by plain scripture and till then we deny it And further he saith The spirit gives out himself by scripture and yet he saith he never said the scripture did give the spirit and this is an absolute contradiction as may be noted so J.S. is taken in the snare contradicting himself in one quarter of a sheet of Paper and hath not at all proved us to be self-contradictors concerning any of these things mentioned by him Further he saith in his 8 th Head That our possessing perfection and quaking after Moses Example cross shins on the other but wherein he doth not shew neither can the honest-minded read any contradiction in it but only it seems J. S. hath set himself to cavel Further he saith We contradict our selves concerning Quaking and trembling from this confession That the same power that made Moses to quake and tremble the same power we witnesse but wherein doth this contradiction appear in these words let honest men try the cause and J. S. be silent And whereas he instances J. P. standing in an evil cause and of I. P. he may be silent whose bloud he or his Generation fought after and now might they well be quiet of him their wills being stifled by drinking his blood as it were but that wicked men must add to their own wickedness till it be fulfilled that they may receive their reward and I. P. was bold as is the children of God and though J. S. would clear himself and his company from what was done to I. P. yet by the effect it appeared that there was enough envy in them towards him and the truth and though his body be in the ground yet the Spirit of the Lord which guided him stands alive a sufficient witness against them and all their cruell and wicked dealing and let J. S. judgement be what it will neither concerning growth of Grace nor forms of Religion nor fruits of the Spirit do we at all contradict the Spirit of God neither doth he prove us in these things whereof he accuseth us in strife and debate except against such as J.S. and the Devils Kingdom neither in emulation hatred scoffs or any of these things which the Lord hath redeemed us from though we be falsly accused in these things as in many other by him and whereas he would prove their preaching in their method Points and Reasons and Uses from the example of the Saints in former ages he falls far short in effecting his extent for he cannot prove that they studied for what they spake nor that in such a way they delivered what they said an hour by a glass c. as the Priests of this age do also if it were they preached in the like manner as the Apostles did yet not by the same spirit but by the spirit of error and for a wrong end that is the thing which makes their manner abominable when as they are not guided with the same Spirit of the Apostles and their preaching in their method of points and particulars is rather an art of preaching by humane policy and not the gift of preaching by the Spirit of God neither do we concerning humility and love contradict our selves but are in humility love towards all men even such as wrongs us we seek no revenge against and herein doth our humility and love appear yet cannot we respect any mans person with hat or knee and that is it which J. S. I suppose is offended with In his 13 th Head concerning Ordinances He charges us with self-contradiction because we say we own praying c. and yet hath given over Family prayer morning and evening and at meals but this is no contradiction for we own praying in the Spirit of God bur do deny it without the Spirit and this is no contradiction he may as well say it was contradiction in Christ to cry against the prayers of the Pharisees and yet to teach his Disciples to pray and to pray himself this is the same cause of ours which he foolishly charges with contradiction and as I have said the prayers of the Wicked we deny and yet doth own
sound of Christ as a light hath never been heard where sin and iniquity is discovered but that which hath brought forth these things may well be called an untimely birth which ntver saw the Sun not never knew the light which Christ hath enlightned every man withall which cometh into the world for a little of this fruit doth manifest that tree from whence it springs so we shall judge the tree by it's fruits Another fruit from this tree is to give his testimony of the Law of Faith which is this How far the Law of Faith may be said to be written upon every mans heart is not given unto me to understand only this glimpse I have of it That it appears to have had an influence upon the heart of man by those sacrifices which were offered up to God before the publication of the positive Law wherein as well Cain as Abel offered sacrifices Gen. 4.4 Answ. This testimony doth not proced from the word of Faith in thy heart for that would give an understanding how the Law of Faith is written in the heart as well as how the Law of Works is written and this thy glimpse which thou sayes thou sees from the proposing of the promise and the influence which thou sayes thou seest upon the heart of man by the Sacrifices of Cain as wel as Abel offered unto God if this thy pretended light and glimpse which is so far of Christ be truly weighed and tryed it may prove but a vain vision and a divination of thy own heart as all who consider thy testimony of the Law of Faith in saying that the discovery thereof ariseth from what is without and that it had never been known nor never thought of nor never would it or could it rationally have come into the heart of man to have conceived such a thing but from the declaration of God in his promise Here it doth appear Faith is a mysterie to thee and thy eye hath not seen it nor the ear heard neither hath it entered into thy heart to conceive Faith in the working and operation of it And in that thou sayest well that it was not given thee to understand how it is written upon every man's heart and thou had done well if thou had not stretched thy self beyond the line of thy knowledge and understanding for thou thy self confessest that unto those first believers Abel Enoch Noah Abraham Isaac Jacob Moses David Daniel and the rest there was communicated unto them a Spirit of Faith and a Light sutable and proportionable whereby they were enabled to behold Christ who was the object of their Faith Then if it did arise from the Spirit of Faith within them the Light of Christ who was the Author of their Faith it did not arise from the Declaration of God in the promise without so that the mysterie of Faith vvhich is held in a pure conscience is yet to be learned vvhich vvas vvitnessed amongst the Saints So vvhen thou vvrites again of the Lavv of Works or the Lavv of Faith or the discovery vvhich the Lord maketh to his creature under the diversity of these administrations keep back to the measure of the gift of God and then vvil thy testimony be no larger then thy knowledge vvhich is a guilt hath spread over many in these days but this I say Blessed is the man which doth not condemn himself in the thing vvhich he allovveth and vvhich doth not destroy himself vvith the breath of his ovvn mouth but there is a generation which their own breath as fire shall devour them Again concerning the Light which every man is enlightened withal which is thy stumbling-block and rock of offence as it is unto all the rest whose deeds are evil Thou saist God hath not annointed it to that Work nor laid the weight of eternal salvation upon the shoulders thereof it being too weak for that service Answ. Him hath God annointed who is the Light of the World and hath enlightened every man that cometh into the World and there is no work of eternal salvation wrought but in the Light which every man is enlightened withal and this Light is of him and from him which bears the sins in his own body and is not too weak for that service which the Father hath given him to do and this Light is Christ. And whereas some say Hath every man Christ Every man hath Christ to save or to condemn him Christ is as truly the condemnation of those whose deeds are evil as he is the Saviour of them that believe and as those that believe in the Light are already saved by Christ so also those that believe not in his Light which he hath enlightned them withall are already condemned And so Christ is near unto every one to answer every mans work according to the nature of it whether he serve sin unto death or be found in the obedience of truth unto eternal life for now is the day appeared to try every mans Work of what sort it is and now are many offended because the Light is broken forth and their eye is evil because the Lords is good But wo unto the World because of offences if any have the Spirit of a King let him search out the cause of the offence which is now broken forth amongst the children of men that the enmity which is in all sorts of people of all professions should rise up together and become a body the wicked joâ—ning hand in hand preaching and printing and crying for unity which they are making up of enmity that they may be strong against that which the Lord hath now brought forth in his Light and Power to be Witnesses unto him in every place wheresoever he doth call them witnessing forth his Mercy and Truth by which iniquity is purged out and preaching the Gospel to every creature whereby they may come to the knowledge of the truth that they may be saved But in the World it is so come to pass in these days that he that can but give reviling terms and hard speeches against the Light which Christ hath enlightned every man withall calling it natural or insufficient and if they do but revile those whom they call Quakers and put this in the beginning of his Book then it passeth with toleration and hath as good approbation from the World as any of the Priests have for their Ministry but if any man begin to speak of the Light within and the Annointing within and the Word of Faith in the heart and of the Mystery of Faith in a pure conscience and of the sprinkling of the heart from an evil conscience and of believing in the Light as Christ said such a one speaking of these things and not directing his speech in open reproach against them called Quakers the peoples hearts will be fiâ—led with jealousies lest he be one So that even the Light is become a reproach unto them and their derision daily but the Lords hand is
to the Lord but contrariwise his obedience and that he waâ— in Christ Jesus so this was not as the bleating of the Sheep or the lowing of the Oxen neither did it shew that they were not in the City for Paul testifieth of the holy brethren which he was a Minister unto That they were come unto Mount Sion and unto the City of the living God the heavenly Jerusalem and to an innumerable company of Angels to the general Assembly and Church of the first-born whâ—ch are written in heaven and to God the Judge of all and to the spirits of just men made perfect and to Jesus the Mediator of the new Covenant and to the blood of sprinkling Now let him that hath thus accused shew how many miles these had to travel before they came to the City and whether there was any parts measures or degrees in these or whether there was absolute perfection without any measure of degrees of it and whether Paul was not come so far as these unto whom he preached wisdom even among those that were perfect and might he not in that estate say that he would not stretch himself beyond his measure But this I say none are true witnesses of perfection but those who know their measure and abide in it and likewise those that call the witnessing of the truth in a measure of the Spirit the bleating of the Sheep or the lowing of the Oxen such never knew perfection neither yet presseth after it but would keep all others from it by despiteful terms against the measure of the spirit which leadeth unto it But the day is come and the light is risen which hath found out and discovered all the cunning craftiness of men in whâ—ch they go about to deceive the hearts of the simple and beguile unstable souls but the elect seed is risen which iâ— is impossible to deceive for it is not the Scripture words which men may take and speak in the hypocrisie which can darken our knowledge nor any way hinder the testimony of truth in those which have received it in the power of God only with such things the blind may lead the blind and with such things they may strive to keep others out of the kingdom which have not tasted of the good word of God neither are brought to know a measure of God in themselves whereunto to be obedient but I see the Lord is opening a way for such to come out of the pits which they have been led into in opening their eys and letting them see that their Watchmen are blind and that understanding is departed from them even from their Leaders and the counsels of God is depâ—rted even from the ancient and the people are even like to perish for want of vision because they have not seen for themselves but their Teachers have seen for them vain visions and lying divinations and prophesied lyes causing the ignorant to believe them but the Lords hand is stretched out against such and is stretched out to gather his own seed from such to bring them into the fear of the Lord which is the beginning of wisdom and into the knowledge of the holy whithis understanding Prov. 9.10 which understanâ—ing is a Well sprinâ— of life Another seeming strength risen up against us is the conceit of the discovery of a Schism in the body as if the Band or Girdle which bound up the body were broken and as if there were now a character brought forth amongst us shewing a variety of persons doctrines and practises and as if the testimony of our being of the body of Christ from the unity in the body were ceased and as if the Heads were divided and as for proof instances G.F. to J.N. J.N. to G.F. J.B. to J.N. and as if it were not person but party which some wonder at admiring and waiting to see the Lords counsel and pleasure in it Answ. All those that wait to see the Lords counsel and pleasure and his wisdom in this thing shall see it and be satisfied and it vvill for the time to come be more for the confounding of those that vvatch for iniquity then any vvay for confirming them in iniquity and by that vvhich God hath done and is doing shall the Girdle and Band of our love be made stronger and in this shall the sight of our enemies fail and become blindness for their thoughts is not as Gods thoughts in these things neither their eye as his eye for he saw a better thing for us in these things then they have imagined for that vvhich they thought vvrought for evil hath wrought together for good unto those that stand in Gods counsel who alwayes waits to see those works which stands in his wisdomâ— contrary to mans reason for that which they thought did break that hath bound and that which they thought did separate that hath united together so that there is not a difference nor dividing of Heads not in persons nor in parties nor in doctrines not in practices but the same unity in the body in the faith in the seed in the covenant in one heart and one soul one way and worship of God in the Spirit is now as much or more then ever before witnessed so that God hath cut off occasion from those that seek occasion hath taken away the corner-stone that the wicked thought to build upon and hereby hath God tryed and discovered and brought to light that which lay in the bottom of the deepest pits for God hath brought in this his day many things forth to try prove those who said they were his people and those that a few dayes since seemed to be like Lambs do now manifest themselves to be in the nature of Lyons and ravening Wolves and those that pre-end to wait for the coming of Christ in power and had the Name of Seekers they are now found to reject his coming and to be such as watch for iniquity in those among whom Christ is come now they are turned backward and now drink up that which they had vomiâ—ed up for now if they could but finde any iniquity among such as God hath made known the glory of his power among or if they can but suppose or imagine any such thing from false conceptions conclusions this would be a sufficient ground to them to print a Book upon and publish it abroad and but that the Lord hath been on our sides well may we say when all sorts of men and religions hath risen up against us by their violence had we been consumed for the powers of darkness and all the divers worships of the Beast are now more joyned together then ever and the deepest subtilty of the Serpent is now at work in his members to devise wayes and change the Laws and times whereby the spirit might be quenched which God hath raised up in his children whereby a mighty cry is gone forth through the Nations against the Mystery of iniquity where it worketh both in
done so that they do not only exceed the false prophets of Israel but also all the Robbers both in Israel and in England hath not spoiled so much Goods and Cattel as they have done within these five years some without any Law or pretence of Law and others with false oaths and false witnesses and the Law not permitting a man to give in a true witnesse except he will swear contrary to Christs command who saith Swear not at all which swearing is as great a sin as bearring of a false witnesse And by theâ—e things do they seek to wear out the Saints of the Most High God first taking away a mans Goods and then casting him into prison as Christ said to the Saints so is it come to pass in these dayes also amongst us The Devil shall oast some of you into prison and you shall have tribulation ten dayes If the Devil now or his Ministers or Messengers of Satan be permitted to cust some into prison or bring tribulation upon others do they therefore think that we will yeild to the devil or to his Messengers that we may be free from tribulation and imprisonment Nay that is not the price of our redemption nor way of deliverance â—or that which was written before-time was written for our â—earning which through suffering and patient continuing in wel doing we have learned without which we could never have learned nor known Christ's words fulfilled as they are therefore happy iâ— that day wherein the everlasting love of God is broken forth unto us in bringing us his children prophets and holy Apostles to rejoice over the false Prophets and false Teachers though they spoil our Goods and imprison our bodies yet we can rejoyce over them and suffer the spoâ—ling of our Goods with joy knowing that this is for a testimony against them by which the reproach which the Lord will bring upon them will appear to all men And this is so far from silencing our testimony against them that it doth daily renew it so that if all that which is past were forgotten their daily abominations doth so increase that a testimony must be continued against them for of them the Scripture is true which saith Evil men and deceivers wax worse and worse for the deceiver in former ages was never so bad as by force to take away the goods of those that would not hear them and take away their lives by imprisonment as some have done because they could not pay them tythes as this Record of the unjust sufferings will make manifest Our brethren the prophets hâ—ve given their testimony concerning such Prophets and Priests which was prophane and that the Lord found folly amongst them as Jeremiah saith Jer. 23. he had seen a horrible thing amongst them they strengthned the hand of evil-doers that none did return from their iniquity and it is so now for these reasons How can a drunkard return from his drunkenness when he sees his priest drunk and how can a swearer return from his swearing when he sees his priest swear and hire men to swear falsly as many have done in this Nation And how can a covetous man return from his covetousness when he sees his priest so covetous that he taketh away mens goods by violence which he hath no right unto but only through covetousness makes merchandize of People So how should any return from such things who are taught by them and how can a proud man return from his pride when he sees his teacher lead him into it by example How can an envious man turn from his envy seeing his teacher envious and provoking others to wratâ— and envy So these Reasons prove that the Prophets words are true that â—one can return from their iniquity by following the practise of theiâ— Priests and Christ's words are fulfilled also Math 23. which saith they lay heavy burthens upon people grievious to be born and devour Widowes Houses as many in this Nation can wiâ—nâ—sse who have their Goods spoild taken from them as this following Record makes mention abounding all the cruelty and wickedness which ever was heard of or read of exceeding all the false prophets in Israel althoug they had a price preached for hire yet they never did use such cruelty for their Hire as these have done and exceeding all the false teachers among the Gentiles which never was known to sue any at the Law that would not hear them much less to take from them seven times the value of what they demanded but the Lord doth for a time let his children deeply suffer to fulfill the testimony of truth in this thing that it may be recorded for ages to come the faithfullness of their testimony and the cruelty of their oppressors and then will the Lord finish the testimony of their sufferings and will give them an inheritance among the Seed which he hath blessed and all their persecutors shall be ashamed for God will bring an everlasting reproach upon them and a perpetual shame which shall not be forgotten Jer. 23. Richard Hubberthorne A Call to the Ministry according to the Scriptures held forth in these few words following contrary to that Call which is of man and by man To the Reader IT being of the Lord so ordered that a publike Dispute was appointed betwixt Thomas Dance Priest in Sandwich in Kent and those called Quakers which was upon the twelfth and thirteenth days of the second Month in which many weighty things concerning Religion was discoursed of in which it was first proved by us according to the Scripture That Christ Jesus the true Light hath enlightened every one that cometh into the world Joh. 1.9 and Joh. 12. And another weighty matter concerning Religion discoursed upon was the righteousness by which man is justified before God which by us was witnessed and proved to be only by the righteousness that was in Christ Jesus being also made manifest in us the everlasting righteousness being brought in according to Dan. 9.24 Again upon the tenth day the discourse was Whether the Scriptures were the Word of God The answer was That the Scriptures were Writings and the Writings was not the Word but the thing written of was the Word of God Unto which the Priests also consented Another thing was concerning the Call to the Ministry whether theirs or ours was according to the Apostles and according to the Scriptures the heads of both which Calls are declared as followeth that all people may judge according to their measure of the gift of Christ whether of them is according to Scripture-Testimony THat by which the Apostles were called into the Work of the Ministry having gifts differing according to the measure of the manifestation of Christ by the same am I called which is also according to the Scriptures as Eph. 4. Unto every one of us is given Grace according to the measure of the gifts of Christ by which gift according to the measure of it were they made some Apostles some
Lord R. H. According as vve read in the Scriptures That the inspiration of the Almighty giveth understanding so by its inspiration is an understanding given us of the things of God Lord. Then one of the Lords said How do you know that you are led by the true Spirit R. H. This we know because the Spirit of truth it reproves the world of Sin and by it we were reproved of sin and also are led from sin unto righteousness and obedience of truth by which effects vve knovv it is the true Spirit for the spirit of the vvicked one doth not lead into such things King and Lords Then the King and his Lords said It was truth King Well of this you may be assured That you shall none of you suffer for your Opinions or Religion so long as you live peaceably and you have the Word of a King for it and I have also given forth a Declaration to the same purpose that none shall wrong you nor abuse you King How do you own Magistrates or Magistracy R. H. Thus vve do ovvn Magistrates Whosoever is set up by God whether King as Supream or any set in Authority by him who are for the punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well such we shall submit unto and assist in righteous and civil things both by body and Estate And if any Magistrates do that which is unrighteous we must declare against it only submit under it by a patient suffering and not rebel against any by insurrections plots and contrivances King Then the King said That is enough Lord. Then one of the Lords asked Why do you meet together seeing every â—ne of you have the Church in your selves R. H. According as it is written in the Scriptures the Church is in God Thes. 1.1 And they that feared the Lord did meet often together in the fear of the Lord and to us it is profitable and herein we are edified and strengthened in the life of truth King How did you first come to believe the Scriptures were truth R. H. I have believed the Scriptures from a child to be a Declaration of truth when I had but a literal knowledge natural education and tradition but now I know the Scriptures to be true by the manifestation and operation of the Spirit of God fulfilling them in me King In what manner do you méet and what is that order in your méetings R. H. We do meet in the same order as the people of God did waiting upon him and if any have a word of exhortation from the Lord he may speak it or if any have a word of reproof or admonition and as every one hath received the gift so they may minister one unto another and may be edified one by another whereby a grovvth into the knowledge of the truth is administred to one another One of the Lords Then you know not so much as you may know but there is a growth then to be admitted of R. H. Yes vve do grovv daily into the knovvledge of the truth in our exercise and obedience to it King Are any of your Friends gone to Rome R. H. Yes there is one in Prison in Rome King Why did you send him thither R. H. We did not send him thither but he found something upon his Spirit from the Lord whereby he was called to go to declare against Superstition and Idolatry vvhich is contrary to the Will of God Kings Friend said There were two of them at Rome but one was dead King Have any of your Friends been with the Great Turk R. H. Some of our Friends have been in that Countrey Other things were spoken concerning the liberty of the servants of the Lord which vvere called of him into his service that to them there vvas no limitation to Parishes or places but as the Lord did guide them in his Work and Service by his Spirit So the King promised that we should not any ways suffer for our Opinion or Religion and so in love passed away R. H. His Answer to John Horn. J. H. IN thy Answer to my Queries thou seemest to be resolved to say something although it be absolutely contrary to the truth and to that which thou knowest to be Truth as will appear in what follows In answer to my first thou sayest Christ in his Spirit ascended up to Heaven when his Body was upon Earth Is this an answer to the Question Is the mind or Spirit called the Son of man according to John 3.13 which came down from Heaven And no man doth ascend up to Heaven but the Son of man which was then in Heaven So by this thy Answer it appears then that the Spirit is the Son of man and that there is no other Son of man that ascends into Heaven but the Spirit then what becomes of that body thou speaks of if the Spirit only be that Son of man In thy Answer to the second and third Queries thou provest in thy way that Mary did that which was forbidden by Christ when she held him by the feet and worshipped him but in Mat. 28.9 there is no forbidding of her to touch him but this is plainly manifest that thou art in a snare and cannot tel how to get out and yet thou wilt be saying something though thereby thou more ensnares thy self but this Scripture thou wilt once know fulfilled The Wicked shall be silent in darkness When thou shouldst answer to the fourth thou tellest of its being a secret and of prying into things above what is vvritten although the ground of my Query is grounded upon that vvhich is vvritten in Luke 24.4 To the fifth thou saist That the Women did distinguish which was Christ vvas certain but hovv they did so is a foolish curious Question What certainty is there that they did knovv vvhen thou knovvest not hovv but this is like the rest of the Priests doctrine beating the air and leaving all people in uncertainties and yet would be paid for so doing but the Lord hath made thee manifest with the rest that you cannot deceive much longer To the sixth thou sayest the two Angels were seen visibly but were not Bodies nor Persons of men but in thy answer to the fourth saist that they both saw them as men and heard them speak and had two individual Forms Now if thou wert but simple and not wilfully blind thou mightest be the more excused In thy answer to the seventh thou art more lost and confused then in all the rest for when thou shouldst answer who were the eleven Disciples that were met together mentioned Luk 24.33 thou saist that Thomas might occasionally be gone out Ans. If he was gone out then the eleven was not together as Luke 24. Again thou saist that Matthias was chosen before the Evangelist wrote his Book What darkness and ignorance is this Thou art not questioned when the Book was written nor when Matthias was chosen but who was the eleven that was together